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Speaker 1: Here the duplessy out.

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Speaker 2: Today is the last day of the King and Queen's

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Speaker 2: visit to Australia. They're going to head straight to some

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Speaker 2: war once they've wrapped it up for the Commonwealth heads

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Speaker 2: of government meeting over there, and they're not going to

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Speaker 2: be stopping in New Zealand on the way. Former in

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Speaker 2: fact Deputy Secretary Peter Hamilton has long argued that we

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Speaker 2: are actually ready in this country to have our own

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Speaker 2: head of state and he's with us.

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Speaker 3: Hey, Peter, how are you? I'm very well, thank you.

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Speaker 3: I reckon that Charles, bypassing our strengthens your argument. What

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Speaker 3: do you think, Well, in a way it does.

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Speaker 1: I don't you know, I don't forget the fact that

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Speaker 1: he's sick and unable to travel. He's only making a

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Speaker 1: short visit to Australia, not a full state visit. It's

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Speaker 1: like a transit stop and he's doing some R and

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Speaker 1: r here on the way to some more So I

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Speaker 1: wasn't surprised that he's not coming to New Zealand. But

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Speaker 1: what it does show basically is the whole business of

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Speaker 1: having a foreigner as our head of state in Australia, Canada,

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Speaker 1: New Zealand a few other countries. It's just overloading the

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Speaker 1: system and the British monarch can't undertake the role that's

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Speaker 1: required in this modern day and age of being a

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Speaker 1: head of state for New Zealand. In New Zealand and

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Speaker 1: you know, we've got the Governor General there, Dame Cindy Kurry,

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Speaker 1: doing all the work but getting very little of the

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Speaker 1: recognition for what she does.

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Speaker 3: Do we actually miss out on anything though, having Cindy

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Speaker 3: there instead of Charles.

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Speaker 1: Well put it this way, I think Cindy misses out

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Speaker 1: in one sense because she's not getting the recognition internationally

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Speaker 1: that she should have as New Zealand's are duly appointed

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Speaker 1: head of state. She does everything fine in terms of

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Speaker 1: the ceremonial role in New Zealand, and we're talking about

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Speaker 1: keeping it as the ceremonial non executive role. But New

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Speaker 1: Zealand is hampered when the Governor General goes overseas because

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Speaker 1: of course nobody quite understands any longer what the heck

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Speaker 1: a governor does or a governor general does. You know

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Speaker 1: that sounds like some sort of colonial thing, really doesn't it.

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Speaker 1: And you know then they say, well, who is your

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Speaker 1: head of state? And we say, well, it's actually the

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Speaker 1: British monarch, and at that point people's eyes sort of

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Speaker 1: gloss over and they sort of wonder why that's the case.

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Speaker 1: What it's historical in our situation. But it is time

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Speaker 1: in the twenty first century to bring the whole role

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Speaker 1: back to New Zealand.

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Speaker 3: I think, Peter, why is it that at the moment

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Speaker 3: this is falling on deaf is there just doesn't seem

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Speaker 3: to be much of an appetite to discuss this kind

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Speaker 3: of stuff, both here in New Zealand and over in Australia.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. One thing, of course, is that there's plenty else

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Speaker 1: going on at the moment, and who gets really excited

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Speaker 1: about constitutional issues. It's just not very sexy at all

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Speaker 1: at any stage of the game. But I think the

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Speaker 1: point is that there's confusion too about what the issues are.

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Speaker 1: If you ask New Zealanders, should a New Zealander be

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Speaker 1: our head of state or could a New Zealander take

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Speaker 1: on the role as the head of state? No, New

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Speaker 1: Zealand is going to say, oh no, no, we're incapable

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Speaker 1: of doing that. Everybody agrees we are capable of doing it.

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Speaker 1: But then the sort of confusion is about what the

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Speaker 1: role actually entails and what not having the British king

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Speaker 1: as our head of state would mean too. Some people say, oh, well,

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Speaker 1: I don't want to leave the Commonwealth. We like the

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Speaker 1: Commonwealth Games. Well, that's not the point. We aren't going

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Speaker 1: to leave the Commonwealth. We can go to the Commonwealth Games,

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Speaker 1: even as the Republic and most countries in this day

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Speaker 1: and age are republics now in the Commonwealth, of the

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Speaker 1: fifty four Commonwealth countries, only thirteen of them have the

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Speaker 1: British monarchs as head of state. Most of them are republics.

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Speaker 1: So I think it's time to have the conversation. But

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Speaker 1: there is confusion and understanding too about what this actually means.

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Speaker 1: If you ask New Zealanders. We did a few years ago,

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Speaker 1: we did a survey asking New Zealanders who is our

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Speaker 1: head of state? And would you believe it? Eighty percent

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Speaker 1: didn't know. Only twenty percent got it right. Most people

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Speaker 1: thought it was the Prime Minister, the Governor General didn't

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Speaker 1: really know, and so they didn't really have much much

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Speaker 1: clue about who actually is is our head of state.

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Speaker 1: So it's a bit of a confusion there.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Peter, I think that the behavior from Lydia Thorpe

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Speaker 3: in the last few days actually harms the rep Publican

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Speaker 3: movement simply because while you might be sympathetic towards republicanism,

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Speaker 3: who wants to be associated with that kind of outlandish

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Speaker 3: and rude behavior.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely absolutely agree with you. Look, she might have had

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Speaker 1: her own particular viewpoint. Everybody has and is entitled to

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Speaker 1: their own viewpoints. But in this discussion of replacing the

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Speaker 1: British monarchers at our head of state, we're not in

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Speaker 1: any way seeking to denigrate or downplay or attack the

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Speaker 1: British monarchy or the royal family. That's just not it.

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Speaker 1: We need a calm, measured, rational and polite conversation about

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Speaker 1: the issues that Charles has said publicly, if Australia New

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Speaker 1: Zealand want to become republics, he won't stand in the

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Speaker 1: way of it. And as John Luck, as Christopher Luxon

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Speaker 1: said yesterday, he's a soft Republican. But when he was

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Speaker 1: asked what does King Charles actually do for New Zealand,

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Speaker 1: you know what his answer was. He said, he's dedicated.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's so dedicated it doesn't even visit us exactly.

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Speaker 1: And there's nobody more dedicated in this whole equation than

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Speaker 1: our governor's general like Simdiciro at the moment.

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Speaker 3: Hey, Peter, thanks for talking us through to really appreciate

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Speaker 3: it is Peter Hamilton, former m FAT Deputy secretary and diplomat.

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