WEBVTT - Can tech save Welly? 0:00:03.120 --> 0:00:05.080 This week on the Business of Tech powered by Two 0:00:05.120 --> 0:00:09.760 Degrees Business, we're talking about the future of Wellington. I'm 0:00:09.800 --> 0:00:11.920 Peter Griffin and this is a subject close to my 0:00:12.080 --> 0:00:16.320 heart as I'm now in my twentieth year living right 0:00:16.400 --> 0:00:19.160 in the center of the capitol. It's a wonderful place 0:00:19.200 --> 0:00:21.799 to live and to be honest, I never expected to 0:00:21.840 --> 0:00:26.160 say that as an orchander via Dublin, who came here 0:00:26.200 --> 0:00:29.200 to study creative writing and expected to be on the 0:00:29.200 --> 0:00:33.640 first plane north after finishing my degree. But I fell 0:00:33.680 --> 0:00:36.280 in love with the place and with a woman living here, 0:00:36.640 --> 0:00:39.919 and the rest is history. But the city has some 0:00:40.000 --> 0:00:45.640 big problems now. Our infrastructure is dilapidated, economic growth is stagnant, 0:00:45.960 --> 0:00:48.000 and the public sector cuts have seen a lot of 0:00:48.000 --> 0:00:52.040 smart people leave in the last couple of years. Wellington 0:00:52.159 --> 0:00:54.600 used to be the center of our tech sector, with 0:00:54.760 --> 0:01:00.280 huge successes like zero and Trade. Me founded here. Believe 0:01:00.280 --> 0:01:04.240 that doubling down on tech, on startups and innovation a 0:01:04.440 --> 0:01:08.520 massively successful film industry is the way to attract top 0:01:08.560 --> 0:01:12.080 talent to the city, inject more capital into our companies 0:01:12.520 --> 0:01:15.800 and create more high paying jobs. We're not alone in 0:01:15.880 --> 0:01:19.679 having that idea. A couple of weeks back, during Tech Week, 0:01:20.160 --> 0:01:25.720 Auckland's Mayor Wayne Brown launched a new innovation and technology alliance, 0:01:26.200 --> 0:01:30.720 bringing together the public and private sectors to attract capital 0:01:31.000 --> 0:01:35.080 and boost productivity. He wants Auckland to be the Silicon 0:01:35.200 --> 0:01:38.440 Valley of the South Pacific. A little bit cringy, but 0:01:38.600 --> 0:01:41.679 let's face it, Auckland is the center of startup activity 0:01:41.720 --> 0:01:44.520 now and has a lot going for it. As for 0:01:44.560 --> 0:01:47.080 the capital, a lot of smart people have been thinking 0:01:47.160 --> 0:01:50.240 about how to revive some of the glory associated with 0:01:50.280 --> 0:01:53.880 the city's golden run of tech and entrepreneurial success in 0:01:53.920 --> 0:01:57.840 the early two thousands into the twenty tens. Last week, 0:01:57.920 --> 0:02:01.760 the think tank Vision for Wellington, up of prominent Walentonians 0:02:01.800 --> 0:02:05.000 who want a new direction for the city, featured tech 0:02:05.080 --> 0:02:09.160 luminaries on a panel discussion giving their suggestions for what 0:02:09.200 --> 0:02:12.720 we should focus on. For instance, Rod Drury, who after 0:02:12.760 --> 0:02:16.200 a huge success with Zero divides his time between Wellington 0:02:16.240 --> 0:02:20.040 and Queenstown, suggested the city is the perfect place for 0:02:20.160 --> 0:02:22.640 young people to get a start in their career and 0:02:22.680 --> 0:02:25.400 we need to do a lot more to attract them here. 0:02:26.040 --> 0:02:30.520 I think the idea around how he pets Wellington's what's. 0:02:30.360 --> 0:02:33.800 How unique about it. It's that great networking city early 0:02:33.880 --> 0:02:37.440 in your working career. Sorry to you know kids discussion 0:02:37.560 --> 0:02:40.840 twenty times for different things going on. But I think 0:02:41.280 --> 0:02:44.840 what's called about an asset like don't need a car, So. 0:02:44.800 --> 0:02:46.680 If you're a young person in the twenties, you don't 0:02:46.680 --> 0:02:48.840 have to waste time with the car, the car insurance 0:02:48.880 --> 0:02:51.400 and parking cars, or you need really as. 0:02:51.280 --> 0:02:52.679 A laptop and somewhere to live. 0:02:53.200 --> 0:02:55.120 So as a thing, I think we should have a 0:02:55.120 --> 0:02:58.040 strategy of trying to attract people in their twenties, not 0:02:58.120 --> 0:03:00.919 just people to go at a university, but people that 0:03:01.000 --> 0:03:03.720 just want to come and have the big city experience 0:03:03.800 --> 0:03:06.840 like I had coming from full State into some of 0:03:06.800 --> 0:03:08.239 the floways cuts in the provinces. 0:03:08.440 --> 0:03:10.720 Don't have to be super and to do the Uni track, 0:03:11.000 --> 0:03:12.560 just come and live here. So how do you make 0:03:12.639 --> 0:03:14.880 that easier? We have to make it affordable for them 0:03:14.919 --> 0:03:15.280 to live. 0:03:15.919 --> 0:03:18.560 That was Rod speaking at the Vision for Wellington event. 0:03:18.720 --> 0:03:21.720 Also on the panel was Brooke Roberts, the co founder 0:03:22.200 --> 0:03:25.679 and co CEO of Chaersease, which has become the go 0:03:25.760 --> 0:03:28.960 to app for key We equity investors now. Brooke talked 0:03:28.960 --> 0:03:32.400 about the city's proximity to nature and beaches being something 0:03:32.440 --> 0:03:34.720 that we really have going for us, but also the 0:03:34.800 --> 0:03:37.640 need for Wellington to invest more in the startups that 0:03:37.680 --> 0:03:39.440 can produce wealth for the city. 0:03:39.840 --> 0:03:41.320 On top of that, you know what I love about 0:03:41.360 --> 0:03:43.720 Wellingtons being able to run around the waterfront and the 0:03:43.800 --> 0:03:46.560 hills being able to super dawn and then go to 0:03:47.000 --> 0:03:49.480 they need to meetings and then fund bilance is quite 0:03:49.600 --> 0:03:52.640 rare in willing to make it possible than is needing 0:03:52.720 --> 0:03:55.119 more into growing. I can't be even attracted color to day. 0:03:55.240 --> 0:03:59.400 It's easy to live out here or purposely to raise. 0:03:59.240 --> 0:04:08.400 Families and to recapital wall and face back to what 0:04:08.440 --> 0:04:13.160 it was from what's possible and local standards for city can. 0:04:14.040 --> 0:04:17.080 So the tone of the night was basically that we've 0:04:17.120 --> 0:04:20.919 got a great compact city offering a fantastic lifestyle and 0:04:21.000 --> 0:04:26.599 networking opportunities, but these networks have become disconnected, particularly in 0:04:26.680 --> 0:04:30.560 the wake of COVID. To rebuild a vibrant tech sector, 0:04:30.839 --> 0:04:33.640 we need to double down on those lifestyle factors the 0:04:33.680 --> 0:04:36.320 city has going for it. We need to attract talent, 0:04:37.080 --> 0:04:41.040 more investment and have better links between our universities and startups. 0:04:41.279 --> 0:04:43.680 We also need leadership for the city with a clear 0:04:44.000 --> 0:04:47.160 vision for the future. Sitting in the audience along with 0:04:47.240 --> 0:04:51.120 me listening to that vision for Wellington panel was Ralph Heinem, 0:04:51.600 --> 0:04:55.360 the co founder of Volpara Health, a startup that created 0:04:55.480 --> 0:05:00.640 pioneering software for improving the accuracy of breast screening ma as. 0:05:00.880 --> 0:05:04.440 The software is now used to screen literally tens of 0:05:04.480 --> 0:05:07.719 millions of people worldwide, and last year, after a stint 0:05:08.000 --> 0:05:11.680 on the Australian Stock Exchange, Volpara was acquired by South 0:05:11.760 --> 0:05:16.200 Korean medical imaging software company Lunet in a deal value 0:05:16.240 --> 0:05:18.520 at around three hundred million dollars, one of the biggest 0:05:18.520 --> 0:05:23.159 exits from a Wellington company in the last twenty years. Ralph, 0:05:23.440 --> 0:05:25.760 like me, came to Wellington and fell in love with 0:05:25.880 --> 0:05:28.880 this place. He's now an active investor in startups in 0:05:28.920 --> 0:05:31.400 the cety, including lit Maps, which I featured on the 0:05:31.440 --> 0:05:34.240 podcast a few episodes ago. So I caught up with 0:05:34.360 --> 0:05:37.040 Ralph on a sunny Wellington day at his Mount Victoria 0:05:37.120 --> 0:05:40.760 home after the panel discussion to get his thoughts on 0:05:40.800 --> 0:05:44.840 what he'd heard and his plans for wally Forge, a 0:05:44.920 --> 0:05:48.120 new group he's formed that will act to promote events, 0:05:48.320 --> 0:05:52.919 networking and investments for the Wellington startup scene. Here's the 0:05:52.960 --> 0:06:09.400 interview with Volpara Health co founder Ralph Heinem. Ralph, Welcome 0:06:09.520 --> 0:06:11.920 to the Business of Tech. Great to see you and 0:06:11.960 --> 0:06:13.440 to have you on for the first time. 0:06:13.560 --> 0:06:16.200 Great to be here, Peter, I mean, I'm going to 0:06:16.240 --> 0:06:18.120 enjoy the conversation. Let's crack into it. 0:06:18.320 --> 0:06:21.560 Well, there was a great conversation last night. You and 0:06:21.640 --> 0:06:25.680 I attended this Vision for Wellington events. Some familiar and 0:06:25.920 --> 0:06:29.560 iconic faces from the Wellington tech community, the likes of 0:06:29.680 --> 0:06:33.240 Rod Drury, founder of Zero, Brooke Roberts, the co founder 0:06:33.279 --> 0:06:36.599 of Chersey's Great Company, a lot of New Zealanders are using, 0:06:36.839 --> 0:06:41.600 serge Van dam a serial investor in companies in Wellington, 0:06:41.880 --> 0:06:45.960 and Stephen Cummings, the professor of Innovation and Strategy at 0:06:46.279 --> 0:06:48.560 Victoria University. So it was a great panel. We're going 0:06:48.600 --> 0:06:51.200 to get your thoughts on what they said last night 0:06:51.279 --> 0:06:53.920 about the potential to use one of our strengths, which 0:06:53.960 --> 0:06:56.960 is tech, to sort of reinvigorate the city, which, let's 0:06:57.000 --> 0:06:58.679 face it has been in a bit of a funk 0:06:58.880 --> 0:07:02.960 since COVID. But first I just want to remind listeners 0:07:03.040 --> 0:07:06.560 off your success story coming to New Zealand after this 0:07:06.640 --> 0:07:11.160 great academic career at Oxford and setting up Volpower Health, 0:07:11.200 --> 0:07:14.880 which has been a huge success, grew to be listed 0:07:14.880 --> 0:07:17.600 on the ASX. Has since been acquired by a South 0:07:17.680 --> 0:07:21.160 Korean company, so a really successful exit there. Still based 0:07:21.440 --> 0:07:24.480 in Wellington, still employing a lot of people here, dozens 0:07:24.520 --> 0:07:28.679 of patents, so creating real intellectual property and helping women 0:07:28.720 --> 0:07:32.120 all over the world with the AI powered screening software 0:07:32.160 --> 0:07:34.400 that you've developed. So this is exactly the sort of 0:07:34.440 --> 0:07:36.840 company as the people said last night, we need more 0:07:36.960 --> 0:07:38.680 off and how do we do it? How do we 0:07:38.760 --> 0:07:41.760 sort of ten x or one hundred times what's going 0:07:41.840 --> 0:07:45.000 on here? But first just yeah, dial back to coming 0:07:45.040 --> 0:07:47.840 out of Oxford University in the UK, what brought you 0:07:47.880 --> 0:07:50.840 to New Zealand and the genesis of Volpower. 0:07:50.440 --> 0:07:53.480 Yeah, the APHD in Oxford on breast AI applied to 0:07:53.960 --> 0:07:57.040 Paragrams for the textion early texts of breast cancer. Tried 0:07:57.080 --> 0:07:59.280 to commercialize that in nineteen ninety nine but it was 0:07:59.320 --> 0:08:02.280 a bit too early, but we switched into brain imaging 0:08:02.280 --> 0:08:05.520 instead and we were very successful at that and we 0:08:05.640 --> 0:08:08.840 ended up selling the companies to effectively to Siemens in 0:08:08.960 --> 0:08:12.760 two thousand and three, at which point Mike Kiwi partner 0:08:13.040 --> 0:08:16.320 who is now. My wife said, look, she had to 0:08:16.360 --> 0:08:18.920 come back here from Oxford to finish off a medical 0:08:18.960 --> 0:08:21.440 degree a targo. Would I come back with her? And 0:08:21.480 --> 0:08:23.680 I said, well started the company. I was kind of 0:08:23.720 --> 0:08:26.000 free and easy and never been to New Zealand. It 0:08:26.120 --> 0:08:28.000 was like, yeah, all right, I'm on the way, let's 0:08:28.000 --> 0:08:31.720 go to go to Wellington and interesting kind of flying in. 0:08:31.800 --> 0:08:35.120 Obviously that was always exciting flying into Wellington, and it 0:08:35.160 --> 0:08:37.560 was particularly on my first visit here. I was very 0:08:37.600 --> 0:08:39.280 exciting and I thought, this is the kind of place 0:08:39.280 --> 0:08:43.040 for me. It's got big exciting storms and lots of activity, 0:08:43.080 --> 0:08:46.160 lots of energy and the lots of interesting things going on. 0:08:46.200 --> 0:08:48.559 That was two thousand and three, Peter, and then they 0:08:48.640 --> 0:08:51.320 consulted for some of the top medical emagine companies right 0:08:51.320 --> 0:08:53.240 around the world. In two thousand and nine, I come 0:08:53.280 --> 0:08:56.480 back and talked to the guy in Oxford, professor Mike Brady, 0:08:56.520 --> 0:08:58.880 and we said, all stuff we did fifteen years ago, 0:08:59.080 --> 0:09:02.240 now is the time for And we could have done 0:09:02.240 --> 0:09:03.760 it anywhere in the world at that point, but I 0:09:04.640 --> 0:09:06.960 or we chose to do it in Wellington, to start 0:09:07.040 --> 0:09:09.960 vol Pier in Wellington. And we did it because quite 0:09:10.040 --> 0:09:13.080 quite simply, it was just so easy starters where we 0:09:13.160 --> 0:09:15.679 started to have Skype, which meant kind of global stuff 0:09:15.760 --> 0:09:18.320 started to play in quite nicely, and we had fairly 0:09:18.360 --> 0:09:22.480 good internet too. It felt so easy here to access 0:09:22.800 --> 0:09:27.800 the government, access early stage funding. And then as we 0:09:27.840 --> 0:09:30.360 started growing, we realized actually there's a huge number of 0:09:30.360 --> 0:09:33.880 really good software engineers in Wellington. In medical space were 0:09:34.080 --> 0:09:37.439 to breastcoats, you need really high quality people who really 0:09:37.480 --> 0:09:39.520 can test the head out of software, you know, no 0:09:39.640 --> 0:09:41.240 bugs or that kind of stuff, and there was lots 0:09:41.240 --> 0:09:43.480 of those around Wellington. But that thing that we found 0:09:43.480 --> 0:09:45.160 as well was as we started to get going was 0:09:45.280 --> 0:09:47.280 there was there's a lot of people around here with 0:09:47.600 --> 0:09:51.040 computer vision or AI skills because of the film industry. 0:09:51.520 --> 0:09:55.080 So back then typically an American would come over and 0:09:55.120 --> 0:09:59.000 work Wetter They would very conveniently bring a partner along 0:09:59.480 --> 0:10:01.800 and that part and would often come and work at 0:10:01.840 --> 0:10:06.240 bop A. So there was a really good relationship and 0:10:06.400 --> 0:10:09.200 it was a fantastic base to which to start to 0:10:09.200 --> 0:10:12.560 grow the company. People say, well, you kind of developed 0:10:12.600 --> 0:10:15.800 the company and the biggest market was the US. Shouldn't 0:10:15.800 --> 0:10:18.199 you have done it in the US? But I actually 0:10:18.240 --> 0:10:21.280 feel that well, with the Internet now, you don't have 0:10:21.320 --> 0:10:25.800 such issues of the tyranny of distance, but also being 0:10:26.160 --> 0:10:28.560 outside the market just makes you think about things in 0:10:28.600 --> 0:10:30.600 a different way, and I think vob Ai was just 0:10:30.840 --> 0:10:34.079 very good at looking at things in different ways from here. 0:10:34.440 --> 0:10:36.800 And the other thing which as I look back and 0:10:36.840 --> 0:10:39.840 reflect on now, is that lots of companies came in 0:10:39.880 --> 0:10:43.440 to our space in the US, funded by USBC, and 0:10:43.480 --> 0:10:46.960 they were always trying tens and tens and tens of millions, 0:10:47.160 --> 0:10:49.319 but it all burned out within one or two years. 0:10:49.520 --> 0:10:52.800 Because medical and a lot of deep tech stuff, you 0:10:53.120 --> 0:10:54.600 can't do it in one or two years. It's a 0:10:54.640 --> 0:10:57.719 long term game and you need to have a sustainable 0:10:57.800 --> 0:10:59.719 company and a sustainable workforce. 0:11:00.040 --> 0:11:02.200 So from day one at Volpira, it. 0:11:02.240 --> 0:11:04.280 Used to kind of drive me mad that people weren't 0:11:04.280 --> 0:11:07.520 working twenty four hours a day. On the other hand, 0:11:08.320 --> 0:11:11.280 I kind of realized it made all these people they 0:11:11.320 --> 0:11:13.360 were here for the long run and they weren't going 0:11:13.440 --> 0:11:16.400 to burn out. So that was a real kind of 0:11:16.960 --> 0:11:18.920 a real benefit of bit of being in Wellington, as 0:11:18.920 --> 0:11:21.040 well being the ability to do deep tech, to be 0:11:21.120 --> 0:11:23.840 patient to grow stuff over the long term. 0:11:23.920 --> 0:11:27.600 Yeah, and that theme really came through last night because 0:11:27.640 --> 0:11:31.400 it's a small city, but the access to the green 0:11:31.440 --> 0:11:36.600 belt here, to surfing at Lyle Bay and cycle tracks 0:11:36.640 --> 0:11:38.440 and all that. You know, people are able to do 0:11:38.480 --> 0:11:42.319 their work. You can get out into nature. But your 0:11:42.360 --> 0:11:44.760 story is quite similar to some of the people on 0:11:44.800 --> 0:11:47.120 the stage last night, Like Rod came from the Hawk's 0:11:47.160 --> 0:11:49.800 Bay and he relates his story of coming to the 0:11:49.840 --> 0:11:51.480 city for the first time and why it was such 0:11:51.480 --> 0:11:54.720 a good place. You came here through circumstances. You know, 0:11:54.840 --> 0:11:58.160 your partner was a Kiwi and came back to Wellington 0:11:58.240 --> 0:12:00.920 to complete his studies. But you could have gone in 0:12:00.920 --> 0:12:03.480 the last few years. Rod could have gone. Cheersy's is 0:12:03.559 --> 0:12:06.360 very big. He is operating in Australia now, Brooke could 0:12:06.400 --> 0:12:08.840 have could have gone. But you're all still here. So 0:12:08.920 --> 0:12:12.600 it's something about this place, even that it's gone through 0:12:12.640 --> 0:12:15.679 tough times in recent years, that keeps you here and investing. 0:12:15.720 --> 0:12:18.960 You're an investor in lip Maps, Wellington based startup, So 0:12:19.040 --> 0:12:20.360 what is it that keeps you here? 0:12:20.480 --> 0:12:23.520 Yeah, he's a great question. And you know you just 0:12:23.559 --> 0:12:26.320 walked up around Mount Victoria, right. Yeah, we live in 0:12:26.600 --> 0:12:30.160 such a stunningly beautiful place. You know, it's just stunning 0:12:30.160 --> 0:12:33.679 weather and today and just stunningly beautiful. Along with that, though, yeah, 0:12:33.720 --> 0:12:37.480 we do because because of that geography, we get big storms. 0:12:37.720 --> 0:12:40.280 I actually love big storms, and I think Rod touched 0:12:40.320 --> 0:12:42.480 on that last night. Someone touched on that last night. 0:12:42.800 --> 0:12:45.280 It's very dramatic here when you get the big storms 0:12:45.320 --> 0:12:47.880 coming through, and I actually loved I love being in 0:12:47.960 --> 0:12:50.520 the office here or off downtown and the big storm 0:12:50.600 --> 0:12:53.319 rolls through, bundles of rain against the window. You think 0:12:53.320 --> 0:12:54.960 the windows are going to come in. It's all very 0:12:55.040 --> 0:12:57.240 dramatic and exciting, but then it blows through and it's 0:12:57.240 --> 0:13:00.760 just as stunning afterwards. So it's so I kind of 0:13:00.840 --> 0:13:02.880 like all that. But the other thing that really came 0:13:02.920 --> 0:13:04.680 over last night they used the word easy. 0:13:04.800 --> 0:13:05.880 I used the word simple. 0:13:06.640 --> 0:13:06.800 You know. 0:13:07.080 --> 0:13:09.040 I love it goes to the US or wherever you 0:13:09.080 --> 0:13:11.120 come back, and you fly into the airport and it's 0:13:11.160 --> 0:13:14.720 just so simple. Get out taxi, ten minutes to the 0:13:14.720 --> 0:13:17.840 city center, walk up the road to the house. 0:13:18.840 --> 0:13:21.400 From the house here in malt Victoria, we're very lucky. 0:13:21.440 --> 0:13:23.720 We can walk ten minutes to the beach, five minutes 0:13:23.760 --> 0:13:27.240 to the green Belt, fifteen minutes downtown to Cuba Street. 0:13:27.760 --> 0:13:30.480 You know, it's just it's all simple and easy. Yeah, 0:13:30.480 --> 0:13:32.760 it was a theme last night around cars. You know, 0:13:33.480 --> 0:13:37.080 we very rarely drive cars unless we really have to. 0:13:37.160 --> 0:13:41.480 And there's just that simplicity of life and stuff, I guess, 0:13:42.040 --> 0:13:44.480 you know, along with the location, the storms and that 0:13:44.520 --> 0:13:48.520 simplicity is a very outdoorsy place where where you know, 0:13:48.559 --> 0:13:50.440 we love the outdoors that you talked about going up 0:13:50.480 --> 0:13:52.880 on the green Belt. I used to, especially at Volpira, 0:13:53.280 --> 0:13:55.720 get stressed or whatever, walk along the top of the 0:13:55.720 --> 0:13:56.280 green Belt. 0:13:56.640 --> 0:13:58.839 You could see the whole world up there. 0:13:59.160 --> 0:14:01.920 There were raging storm and it would battery, but it 0:14:01.960 --> 0:14:03.640 would inspire you at the same time. 0:14:03.880 --> 0:14:05.400 And you know, I kind of love that. 0:14:05.440 --> 0:14:08.760 And I think all those factors really helped to form 0:14:08.880 --> 0:14:11.440 the people, right the people. You know, there's that you know, 0:14:11.679 --> 0:14:14.000 we often talk about the people being the most important, 0:14:14.640 --> 0:14:16.959 you know, to me, only you can't come from Looton 0:14:17.040 --> 0:14:20.320 is a working class town, kind of deck down South, 0:14:20.400 --> 0:14:22.800 And yeah, we all support Looton Town, which is the best, 0:14:22.880 --> 0:14:25.960 best team, best football club in the world. But you know, 0:14:26.160 --> 0:14:29.160 there's always these jokes about Manester United and everyone that 0:14:29.160 --> 0:14:32.760 goes to watching has pron cocktail, sandwiches and drinks, caviar, 0:14:32.880 --> 0:14:35.160 and you don't get any of that crap in Wellington. 0:14:35.280 --> 0:14:38.160 You know, it's all kind of down to earth people. 0:14:38.600 --> 0:14:43.040 Everyone's everyone's friendly, helping people and all that kind of stuff, 0:14:43.080 --> 0:14:46.520 and everyone's up for a beer or a coffee and 0:14:46.560 --> 0:14:48.440 it's just the people really make it at the end 0:14:48.480 --> 0:14:48.840 of the day. 0:14:49.040 --> 0:14:51.480 Yeah, and two thousand and three, when when you got 0:14:51.520 --> 0:14:53.960 here was really the start of this real nascent scene. 0:14:54.000 --> 0:14:56.680 It started with trade me then you know, Rod was 0:14:56.760 --> 0:14:59.720 working here on Glazier Systems and that the genesis of 0:15:00.360 --> 0:15:02.680 Zero was more like two thousand and six, but you 0:15:02.760 --> 0:15:06.840 had Over the Hill and Mirrima, you had really burgeoning 0:15:07.000 --> 0:15:10.560 film scene happening with Sir Peter Jackson and Sir Richard Taylor. 0:15:10.840 --> 0:15:14.240 So there was a lot going on that was twenty 0:15:14.360 --> 0:15:17.680 plus years ago, and some of those people are still here. 0:15:17.680 --> 0:15:19.680 But there's a sense that we've sort of lost what 0:15:19.920 --> 0:15:23.520 was so great about the tech ecosystem. I mentioned COVID, 0:15:23.600 --> 0:15:26.040 you know, and Rod talked last night about how the 0:15:26.040 --> 0:15:28.640 towns sort of emptied out, particularly government, and it hasn't 0:15:28.680 --> 0:15:31.320 quite come back. But what else explains that? What do 0:15:31.360 --> 0:15:34.440 you think has happened so that we really don't have 0:15:34.480 --> 0:15:36.760 that thriving tech ecosystem that we once did. 0:15:36.760 --> 0:15:39.240 I agree co Cove has been a big impact, but 0:15:39.240 --> 0:15:41.680 also it feels like we've kind of lost some of 0:15:41.680 --> 0:15:45.200 the coherence behind the scenes that could be related to 0:15:45.800 --> 0:15:48.760 the government and the Council and their views on staff. 0:15:48.800 --> 0:15:51.200 Both those entities seem to be breaking things apart rather 0:15:51.200 --> 0:15:54.040 than trying to help us bring things together. And as 0:15:54.080 --> 0:15:55.760 we talked about a bit earlier, it kind of feels 0:15:55.760 --> 0:15:59.080 like this constant disruption willing to nound all we want 0:15:59.120 --> 0:16:01.560 to do. Well, I want to do is get companies moving. 0:16:01.760 --> 0:16:04.160 All I want to do is my breast cancer research 0:16:04.320 --> 0:16:06.560 to go on and save more families from cancer. But 0:16:06.600 --> 0:16:10.240 I'm stuck, you know, fighting this seven story tower block 0:16:10.280 --> 0:16:11.560 at the end of the road which is never going 0:16:11.600 --> 0:16:13.960 to be built, and it's just a waste of their time, 0:16:13.960 --> 0:16:16.920 it's a waste of my time. But there's some ideological 0:16:16.920 --> 0:16:20.240 thing happening. I think a government and council level. There's 0:16:20.280 --> 0:16:22.200 just not letting people get home with stuff. And I 0:16:22.200 --> 0:16:24.240 think we're Rod touched on that yesterday as well, right 0:16:24.320 --> 0:16:28.239 up and with his dreams of more bike paths around 0:16:28.320 --> 0:16:31.040 the place, especially up in the green Belt and things 0:16:31.080 --> 0:16:31.360 like this. 0:16:31.520 --> 0:16:34.240 Yeah, it's about sort of being really intentional and deliberate 0:16:34.240 --> 0:16:36.800 about where you want the city to go. And as 0:16:36.840 --> 0:16:39.440 we sit here, we're just looking out at what you 0:16:39.480 --> 0:16:41.720 were saying about this plot of land behind you, which 0:16:41.840 --> 0:16:43.560 is going to have this massive place at the end 0:16:43.560 --> 0:16:46.480 of a private road in a very poky space. 0:16:46.760 --> 0:16:47.920 They want they want that. 0:16:48.040 --> 0:16:51.000 Yeah, yeah, so they're being deliberate about de insification in 0:16:51.040 --> 0:16:53.640 some areas, but it seems to be at the expense 0:16:53.760 --> 0:16:56.240 of an economic vision for the city. 0:16:56.400 --> 0:16:59.440 Yesterday was great because the vision for wanting to event 0:16:59.480 --> 0:17:03.200 because there was kind of people were talking about economics 0:17:03.200 --> 0:17:05.000 and you don't really hear that from the council and 0:17:05.240 --> 0:17:07.760 certain things. Yeah, obviously COVID come along. But the other 0:17:07.800 --> 0:17:10.000 thing that was very useful used to be very useful 0:17:10.200 --> 0:17:12.679 was it used to be quite easy to kind of 0:17:12.720 --> 0:17:16.560 get government funding early on, especially for SaaS companies, but 0:17:16.600 --> 0:17:19.600 then the Labor government under Grant Robertson come in and 0:17:19.640 --> 0:17:22.119 they changed it to this really complicated tax R and 0:17:22.200 --> 0:17:26.000 D credit thing which only bigger companies could understand. So 0:17:26.160 --> 0:17:28.560 Bobar actually ended up doing pretty well on that because 0:17:28.600 --> 0:17:31.399 by that stage we were a bigger company. But in 0:17:31.440 --> 0:17:33.359 my view, it really took away a lot of really 0:17:33.359 --> 0:17:36.800 good funding for very early SaaS companies and waiting towards 0:17:36.800 --> 0:17:40.040 a SAS central place. So yeah, you know it ended 0:17:40.080 --> 0:17:45.240 up our MP in many ways championed this change to 0:17:45.359 --> 0:17:47.879 the rule. In my view, that helped cripple some of 0:17:47.920 --> 0:17:50.479 the kind of SaaS infrastructure that was going on. And 0:17:50.520 --> 0:17:52.159 I'm not sure we ever recovered from that. 0:17:52.400 --> 0:17:56.159 And then COVID and you know, objectively, the R and 0:17:56.240 --> 0:17:59.119 D Texas sin of hasn't really achieved its aim was 0:17:59.200 --> 0:18:02.040 still around one point four or one point five percent 0:18:02.080 --> 0:18:04.679 of GDP spent on R and D. The whole idea 0:18:05.040 --> 0:18:08.520 of this was to get more businesses investing in R 0:18:08.520 --> 0:18:10.960 and D so that we would spend two or maybe 0:18:11.040 --> 0:18:13.760 three percent of our GDP on R and E, which 0:18:13.800 --> 0:18:16.840 is what other advanced small nations are doing. So it 0:18:16.880 --> 0:18:18.720 hasn't really hit the mark, has it? 0:18:18.880 --> 0:18:19.240 No? 0:18:19.440 --> 0:18:22.320 As I say, and again it's good for big companies. 0:18:23.320 --> 0:18:25.600 I remember we first did it. You need like ten 0:18:25.680 --> 0:18:28.560 accountants and sixteen Deloitte people to work out what was 0:18:28.600 --> 0:18:31.800 going on. Small companies can't afford that. And you know, 0:18:32.359 --> 0:18:35.200 the thing, the way it was before, as a SaaS company, 0:18:35.359 --> 0:18:37.159 you get some you get money up front, and that 0:18:37.200 --> 0:18:39.520 would be such even if it's like fifty k or 0:18:39.600 --> 0:18:42.840 sixty k. It would be so useful having that money 0:18:43.240 --> 0:18:46.679 to help you go get ambitious and really go for growth. 0:18:46.800 --> 0:18:49.879 And one of the things I think back on a lot, 0:18:50.200 --> 0:18:52.680 and Brooke from shares his touch on this last night 0:18:52.880 --> 0:18:55.480 was even though we'd already sold a company when I 0:18:55.480 --> 0:18:59.280 come to Wellington started up Volpara, I always remember getting 0:18:59.320 --> 0:19:02.360 ten k from I think it was grow Grow Wellington 0:19:02.359 --> 0:19:04.320 at the point it was ten k to do some 0:19:04.359 --> 0:19:07.480 capability buildings, have a quality system in the country to 0:19:07.880 --> 0:19:08.280 start with. 0:19:08.440 --> 0:19:09.560 It was just a real nudge. 0:19:09.600 --> 0:19:11.960 It was like, you know, there is stuff around here, 0:19:12.000 --> 0:19:14.480 there is people to support you. You know, it does 0:19:14.520 --> 0:19:16.840 actually make sense to do it in Wellington. And so 0:19:17.160 --> 0:19:20.840 and Brooke talked about it last night to early Stage 0:19:20.840 --> 0:19:22.960 and you know, they went to Creative HQ and then 0:19:23.040 --> 0:19:25.639 there was some nudge. They got some money and there 0:19:25.720 --> 0:19:29.760 was this kind of nudge. And I really think that 0:19:29.880 --> 0:19:32.199 one of the things that that SaaS funding used to 0:19:32.200 --> 0:19:34.720 be that kind of nudge, that you know, supporting nudge, 0:19:34.920 --> 0:19:36.840 and I think we've kind of lost that. And one 0:19:36.840 --> 0:19:38.159 of the things I've been talking to a lot of 0:19:38.200 --> 0:19:42.840 people about rebuilding the ecosystem, and that's what welly forged. 0:19:42.960 --> 0:19:46.040 But also I really do believe we need early stage 0:19:46.920 --> 0:19:50.760 nudge funding of zero to fifty k. You've got have 0:19:50.800 --> 0:19:54.680 you've got a good idea, it convinced sort of whatever 0:19:54.680 --> 0:19:56.560 it is, five or six people to put in ten k. 0:19:57.240 --> 0:20:01.119 Let's get some nudge funding going in into those founders 0:20:01.160 --> 0:20:03.280 who turn up. They might not be techie, you know, 0:20:03.440 --> 0:20:05.880 they might not be rich, they might not be able 0:20:05.880 --> 0:20:07.680 to go to their favorite or on call to get 0:20:07.720 --> 0:20:09.800 the money. But you know there's a bunch of I 0:20:09.800 --> 0:20:12.240 think there's enough people around Willington now that should be 0:20:12.280 --> 0:20:14.119 able to come together and really do that kind of 0:20:14.680 --> 0:20:17.400 true very early stage angel investing. 0:20:17.680 --> 0:20:21.680 Yeah, and look there is angel HQ, which if you're 0:20:21.680 --> 0:20:24.480