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Speaker 1: We're a business meet insight for the business hour. We're

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Speaker 1: the head the dup to Cla and my hr on

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Speaker 1: New storksb evening.

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Speaker 2: Coming up with the next hour, We're going to have

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Speaker 2: a chat to Sean Soley on the supermarket, the share

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Speaker 2: market rather volatility that we're seeing at the moment. I've

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Speaker 2: got a little update for you on that. Hugh White

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Speaker 2: from Australia in studio with me on whether Orcust will

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Speaker 2: actually provoke war. We're going to check in with our

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Speaker 2: UK correspondent on whether to expect more riots overnight. It's

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Speaker 2: coming up eight past six and with us right now,

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Speaker 2: we've got Nikola Willis, the Finance Minister evening.

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Speaker 1: Nikola, good evening, Heather.

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Speaker 2: So what's your preferred option for how are you going

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Speaker 2: to recapitalize Kiwibank?

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Speaker 1: Well, look, there are several options that we want to consider.

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Speaker 1: When I look at Kiwi Bank, I see an opportunity

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Speaker 1: to grow it so that it can take on the

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Speaker 1: Australian Bank, the Commerce Commission, who has been looking at

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Speaker 1: banking competition in New Zealand. Seed yup, there's a pretty

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Speaker 1: cozy ologotoly at the top there with a big four

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Speaker 1: banks and Kiwibank is best place to be the maverick,

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Speaker 1: the disruptor who could take on those big four banks.

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Speaker 1: But that would require it to have more investment in

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Speaker 1: it in the future so it could grow. I don't

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Speaker 1: need to tell you that as a government we don't

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Speaker 1: have huge amounts of spare cash sitting around. But you

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Speaker 1: know what, there are key we saver funds, there are EWE,

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Speaker 1: there's the super Fund, there's acc who are always looking

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Speaker 1: for good New Zealand based investments, and I say let's

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Speaker 1: have a look there for you.

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Speaker 2: Would you consider opening it up to mum and dad

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Speaker 2: investors on the share market.

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Speaker 1: I think that's something that we should consider and I'd

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Speaker 1: like to take advice on that option.

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Speaker 2: Okay, if you were to sell it to the likes

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Speaker 2: of or sell part of it to the likes of

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Speaker 2: super Fund and so on, would you tie their hands

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Speaker 2: so that they were unable to onsell it to foreign investors.

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Speaker 1: Well, just to be clear, in the first instance, I'm

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Speaker 1: not proposing actually to sell the government to share it

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Speaker 1: or what I'm saying is let's stick with the money

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Speaker 1: the government already hasn't it, and add to that with

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Speaker 1: new capital, which is a slightly different thing, because this

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Speaker 1: isn't I'm not motivated here about trying to get cash

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Speaker 1: out of keep we back. That's not what I want

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Speaker 1: to do. I want to grow it, so I want

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Speaker 1: other people to be able to put cash in it.

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Speaker 1: But the question you ask is a good one, which

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Speaker 1: is on what terms would a new investor want to

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Speaker 1: make that investment. And that's obviously something I need to

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Speaker 1: take more advice on and consider. And what I said

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Speaker 1: at the weekend was let's do that. Let's put that

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Speaker 1: on the table. Let's talk about what would be needed

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Speaker 1: to grow that little bank that could into something big

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Speaker 1: enough to take on the big Old.

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Speaker 2: I mean, is that going to be terms acceptable to

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Speaker 2: the likes of the super fund, because isn't that actually

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Speaker 2: why they pulled out in the first place, and Grant

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Speaker 2: Robinson had to chuck two point one billion in to

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Speaker 2: cover them because they didn't want to be to have

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Speaker 2: their hands tied like that.

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Speaker 1: Look, I understand that those were some of the issues,

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Speaker 1: So I'm interested to look at what are the basis

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Speaker 1: on which people would want to invest, And maybe that

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Speaker 1: would be that private market would consider investing if they

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Speaker 1: knew that there was going to be an initial public

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Speaker 1: offering to New Zealanders mums and dads down the line.

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Speaker 1: Let's have a look at what that scenario could be,

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Speaker 1: for example. But the basic goal here is let's accelerate

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Speaker 1: the growth of Kiwi Rail. Make it so it's not

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Speaker 1: Kee we Rail, we bank.

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Speaker 2: Although while you're at it, make it.

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Speaker 1: More disruptive and make it more disruptive to the Australian banks.

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Speaker 1: And for one really good reason, I want affordable, fair

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Speaker 1: banking services for New Zealanders and the evidence from the

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Speaker 1: Commerce Commission is they're not getting as good a deal

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Speaker 1: as they should right now.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, is when he going to be okay with this?

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Speaker 2: Because he's not been a big fan of getting private

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Speaker 2: money involved in public assets, is he?

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Speaker 1: Well, I'd be careful to say that Cabinet hasn't taken

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Speaker 1: any decisions on this. But what I flagged at the

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Speaker 1: weekend was I think this is something we should be

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Speaker 1: thinking about. I'm gathering advice on it and I haven't

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Speaker 1: taken any recommendations to cabinet yet, so I wouldn't get

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Speaker 1: ahead and stage wash and Peter's, or indeed any of

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Speaker 1: my other cabinet colleagues think about it. Yet I think

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Speaker 1: The first thing is to have the options on the

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Speaker 1: table and consider the costs and benefits of each.

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Speaker 2: Have a problem, Nicola, I don't reckon you'll have a problem,

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Speaker 2: because I heard he really likes you, so he probably

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Speaker 2: listens to you.

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Speaker 1: Well, I really like him. I really like him too,

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Speaker 1: because he contributes wisdom and he contributes reflected.

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Speaker 2: This is the right approach to take with him. And

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Speaker 2: then he'll just bend over. He'll say yes if you

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Speaker 2: flatter him.

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Speaker 1: Well. I think the wonderful thing about a truly respectful

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Speaker 1: relationships you well understand is you don't necessarily always agree

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Speaker 1: with each other, and that is going to be the

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Speaker 1: case with me and Winston Peters from time to time.

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Speaker 1: But this, I think is a proposal that could have legs.

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Speaker 1: I want to explore it, see if it does, and

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Speaker 1: then if it does, then that's an idea that I

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Speaker 1: would bring to cabinet.

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Speaker 2: Good stuff now, listen. Seawan Sweeney of the CRL and

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Speaker 2: Auckland has given an exit interview saying that political spatsdriving

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Speaker 2: up the cost of infrastructure and that the way to

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Speaker 2: bring down the cost is to stop political fights. Is

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Speaker 2: that even possible? Could we do that?

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Speaker 1: I think we could do more of that. You know,

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Speaker 1: obviously there are going to be some projects which we

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Speaker 1: have to agree to disagree on. And I think our government,

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Speaker 1: for example, made the right decision saying we're not going

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Speaker 1: a hue with light railroad, so.

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Speaker 2: You would though, right. But now the labor guys say

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Speaker 2: that's the wrong decision. So how do you square that circle?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? I think the way we square it is let's

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Speaker 1: look out over thirty years and think about all of

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Speaker 1: the infrastructure we need to build across our transport system,

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Speaker 1: our health system, education system. If we could agree on

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Speaker 1: ninety percent of that across the big parties, that would

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Speaker 1: provide massive certainty to the construction firms, investors and the like.

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Speaker 1: And this is what Chris Biship, our Minister for Infrastructure,

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Speaker 1: is going for. He is working to get together a

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Speaker 1: thirty year infrastructure pipeline plan to provide some clarity over

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Speaker 1: that and to her cre the Opposition triinan spokesperson has

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Speaker 1: indicated that the labor place is more interested in bipartisanship

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Speaker 1: in that infrastructure planning space. So let's see what we

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Speaker 1: can do.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but okay, that's fine. I mean Barbara over at

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Speaker 2: Labour seems like a reasonable bird. But what are you

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Speaker 2: going to do about Julianne and the Greens? I mean

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Speaker 2: she doesn't even like a road right, how are you

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Speaker 2: going to do that?

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Speaker 1: Look, even though I'm not smart enough to solve the problem. Agree,

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Speaker 1: I mean you tell me you're going to ask me

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Speaker 1: to solve that one today. I mean that that's bigger issues.

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Speaker 1: That's bigger issues, the two big main parties to come

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Speaker 1: to a contentus one. That'd be pretty powerful.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, fair enough. Hey, listen, do you agree with John

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Speaker 2: Key that the Treaty Principles Bill is bad policy?

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Speaker 1: Well, obviously we didn't campaign on it and we didn't

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Speaker 1: support it. That's well known. Or you have a coalition

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Speaker 1: agreement in which we said, yep, we'll put that to

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Speaker 1: a Select Committee hearing. And that's the agreement. We've done

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Speaker 1: with that, and so we're going to stick to that agree.

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Speaker 2: See more reckons that he might be able to change

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Speaker 2: your mind though if it proves to be actually a

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Speaker 2: great idea and very popular. Can he?

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Speaker 1: Oh? Will leave even the optimist, isn't he?

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Speaker 2: Nicola? Thank you very much appreciated. Nichola Willis Finance Minister.

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Speaker 1: For more from hither Duplessy Allen Drive.

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