1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,120 Speaker 1: New insight into one the reading gap that we have 2 00:00:02,200 --> 00:00:04,600 Speaker 1: in this country and two where the charter school is 3 00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:05,920 Speaker 1: going to be part of the answer. Now, the claim 4 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:09,120 Speaker 1: is we have the largest gap in reading ability between 5 00:00:09,160 --> 00:00:13,560 Speaker 1: advantaged and disadvantaged in the English speaking world. So this 6 00:00:13,640 --> 00:00:15,440 Speaker 1: comes to us from the Maximum Institute, the research of 7 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:17,440 Speaker 1: Marion spirtles with us. Mary, I'm morning to you. 8 00:00:18,160 --> 00:00:19,000 Speaker 2: Good morning mate. 9 00:00:19,040 --> 00:00:21,720 Speaker 1: So one third of fifteen year old struggle. What does 10 00:00:21,760 --> 00:00:22,480 Speaker 1: struggle mean? 11 00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:27,800 Speaker 2: That would be they don't have the kind of fluent 12 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:31,080 Speaker 2: literacy that you would expect to be able to function well. 13 00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:34,760 Speaker 2: So it's not saying they can't read. And I didn't 14 00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:38,640 Speaker 2: contact that research, but the research was an international study 15 00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:41,599 Speaker 2: and we've got a lot of gaps if you look 16 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:43,480 Speaker 2: at the piece of studies, if you look at other 17 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:46,760 Speaker 2: research that kind of drills down into who's doing well 18 00:00:46,760 --> 00:00:49,320 Speaker 2: and who isn't. We've got plenty of students doing fine, 19 00:00:49,320 --> 00:00:51,760 Speaker 2: but the ones who aren't there's a large number and 20 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:52,840 Speaker 2: they really aren't doing well. 21 00:00:52,920 --> 00:00:54,920 Speaker 1: And what's the link to charter schools? Are you arguing 22 00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:57,400 Speaker 1: that simply because there were charter school they can then 23 00:00:57,520 --> 00:00:58,120 Speaker 1: do better? 24 00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:01,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, they're not not a maagine bullet. What I was 25 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:04,640 Speaker 2: researching was how we can get more equitable access to 26 00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:07,399 Speaker 2: good education options. And so I did a lot of 27 00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:10,480 Speaker 2: looking overseas at what's going on there, especially in the 28 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:14,400 Speaker 2: English speaking world and in the OECD. New Zealand is 29 00:01:14,440 --> 00:01:17,440 Speaker 2: lagging really far behind as far as how much public 30 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:21,760 Speaker 2: funding we give to independently operated schools. If you look 31 00:01:21,760 --> 00:01:27,160 Speaker 2: at like a protograph of you've got equity on one side, 32 00:01:28,080 --> 00:01:30,839 Speaker 2: as far as you know how many how much gaps 33 00:01:30,840 --> 00:01:32,959 Speaker 2: there are between high and low performing students, and you've 34 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:36,479 Speaker 2: got public funding for independently operated schools on the other. 35 00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:40,640 Speaker 2: It's a pretty even line between how much public funding 36 00:01:40,640 --> 00:01:44,720 Speaker 2: there's independent schools and how equitable the systems are. And 37 00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:48,400 Speaker 2: that's simply because the kids who have the fewest choices, 38 00:01:48,880 --> 00:01:52,600 Speaker 2: if you don't publicly fund independent schools, they aren't going 39 00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:54,600 Speaker 2: to have the same options that wealthy your kids have. 40 00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 1: All right, So this becomes political coals in the child 41 00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:01,360 Speaker 1: of school system is already political. Schools in and of 42 00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:05,760 Speaker 1: themselves are not because they're charter schools automatically brilliant. They 43 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:08,720 Speaker 1: can be good and bad, right, that's right. 44 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:12,080 Speaker 2: The things that you're looking for are how are schools operated, 45 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:15,440 Speaker 2: how are they managed, and how do students access them. 46 00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:18,520 Speaker 2: And if you've got open access, that the things that 47 00:02:18,639 --> 00:02:21,560 Speaker 2: narrows in equity. And then if you've got local management, 48 00:02:21,600 --> 00:02:24,440 Speaker 2: if you've got educators making decisions, that tends to be 49 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:26,919 Speaker 2: a good thing. So in the Netherlands, the way they 50 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:30,720 Speaker 2: address this is they fund public and private schools equally. 51 00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:35,000 Speaker 2: In England they've got free schools and academies which are 52 00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:39,480 Speaker 2: independently operated but similar to charter schools, not quite as autonomous, 53 00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:44,080 Speaker 2: but they're independently operated, publicly funded heads can attend for free. 54 00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:46,720 Speaker 2: In the US, some states, not all of them, but 55 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:49,920 Speaker 2: most of them have charter schools that are really similar 56 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:52,760 Speaker 2: to the ones thin post here. They've been operating some 57 00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:55,280 Speaker 2: of them for thirty years and the research into them 58 00:02:55,919 --> 00:02:59,680 Speaker 2: shows that they students there are twice as likely to 59 00:02:59,800 --> 00:03:02,919 Speaker 2: do that is in equivalent students in state schools. 60 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:05,520 Speaker 1: So what you're suggesting is when there's a pressure on 61 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:07,800 Speaker 1: a school to perform, ie a charter school, because of 62 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:09,520 Speaker 1: course they're sitting up in this country, we give you 63 00:03:09,560 --> 00:03:11,840 Speaker 1: money and we have an expectation you will perform. And 64 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:15,000 Speaker 1: when you have freer access to services, no matter whether 65 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:17,080 Speaker 1: they're charter schools, or not, the chances are you are 66 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:17,840 Speaker 1: going to do better. 67 00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:21,239 Speaker 2: Yeah, and some of that is just the local assets. 68 00:03:21,639 --> 00:03:23,720 Speaker 2: People on the ground have a better idea of what 69 00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:27,040 Speaker 2: students in that community need. And so we've got we've 70 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:30,920 Speaker 2: got schools doing that. We've got designated character schools, but 71 00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:34,760 Speaker 2: the government doesn't approve during many schools for that category. 72 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:38,560 Speaker 2: That nine of the fifty two were the partnership schools 73 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:41,240 Speaker 2: that operated ten years ago. They're still operating. By the way, 74 00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:44,720 Speaker 2: there the chart school. If you never failed the school 75 00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:48,080 Speaker 2: did find, they're still publicly funded. They're still operating, they're 76 00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:49,240 Speaker 2: just in a different model now. 77 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:51,560 Speaker 1: Great insight, Mary, I appreciate it very much. Mari Inspital, 78 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:55,040 Speaker 1: who's with the Maximum Institute. For more from the Mic 79 00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:58,240 Speaker 1: Asking Breakfast, listen live to news talks that'd be from 80 00:03:58,320 --> 00:04:01,760 Speaker 1: six am weekdays of the podcast on iHeartRadio.