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Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from News Talks Be follow

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Speaker 1: this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio

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Speaker 1: joining us.

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Speaker 2: Now we have the Catholic Bishop of Duneda and Michael

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Speaker 2: Dooley with us, and great pleasure to have you on

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Speaker 2: the program. Bishop Michael Dooley, you actually met Pope Francis.

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Speaker 2: What was that like?

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Speaker 3: Well, that was back in twenty nineteen. There were five

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Speaker 3: of us New Zealand Catholic bishops visiting Rome doing a

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Speaker 3: report and we had an air and twenty minutes with

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Speaker 3: Pope Francis. So it was definitely the highlight of their

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Speaker 3: our ten days in Rome to actually meet him face

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Speaker 3: to face and take part in the conversation. So it's

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Speaker 3: a very warm, very warm personality and made us feel

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Speaker 3: very welcome. So it was a great experience.

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Speaker 2: Can you take us back to that time? So it's

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Speaker 2: an hour twenty what's happening in the build up to

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Speaker 2: meeting the Pope? You know, what are you doing? And

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Speaker 2: then what is it actually like when you're there?

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Speaker 3: Well, it's we met in the Apostolic Palace, which has

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Speaker 3: a whole lot of waiting rooms, but it's like an

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Speaker 3: old European Palace. So we went from waiting room to

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Speaker 3: waiting room, and the tension was building up. So by

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Speaker 3: the time we all got to actually meet the pope here,

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Speaker 3: we were quite tense. I think we're all a little

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Speaker 3: bit awestruck. But we sat down and he said, look,

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Speaker 3: he said, ask anything you want, and we're just all

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Speaker 3: here as sort of brothers, he said, So he put

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Speaker 3: us at our ease at the right at the start.

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Speaker 2: Did you know what you wanted to ask him? Had

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Speaker 2: you planned anything in advance?

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Speaker 3: I think not really. No, each of us had sort

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Speaker 3: of different things we'd say about New Zealand, but he

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Speaker 3: really just started it off by it. And his first

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Speaker 3: sort of question was about the church in New Zealand,

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Speaker 3: and especially about welcoming and being hospitable of people. So

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Speaker 3: that was what he started off with, which sort of

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Speaker 3: set the tone.

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Speaker 2: Was there something that he did as pope in particular

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Speaker 2: that you think is this is the question I'm asking

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Speaker 2: for people listening right now, and I'll ask it of

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Speaker 2: you that has resonated with you or will be a

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Speaker 2: particularly strong part of his legacy.

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Speaker 3: Well, there are many things, but just recently with the

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Speaker 3: Easter liturgies and on Thursday, we have the washing of feet,

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Speaker 3: and I think it was a massive change in protocol

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Speaker 3: in practice when for his first Holy Thursday liturgy he

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Speaker 3: went to a prison and washed three feet the feet

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Speaker 3: of prisoners and not all like there were Muslim prisoners

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Speaker 3: and women prisoners. And I think that act, you know, really, yeah,

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Speaker 3: it was quite amazing. And he visited prison a few

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Speaker 3: days ago, I think, coming to do that. Yeah, yeah, So,

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Speaker 3: and you know that I can't imagine the effort that

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Speaker 3: he would have had to do with him being feeling

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Speaker 3: so well that he was determined to keep on doing things.

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Speaker 2: How much do you think he changed the Catholic Church

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Speaker 2: while he was the leader.

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Speaker 3: Look, I think he will leave a legacy. And I

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Speaker 3: think one of the main things that he wanted us

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Speaker 3: to do and that he sort of set a process

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Speaker 3: in place, what he called citidelity is about having being

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Speaker 3: a listening church. So rather than as he said, speaking

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Speaker 3: all the time and sort of telling people what to do,

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Speaker 3: that was to actually listen, to stop and listen. And

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Speaker 3: so he put into place, you know, a program really

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Speaker 3: for us to follow with that. So I think think

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Speaker 3: you'll that that change will continue on as.

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Speaker 2: Far as the next pope is concerned that do you

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Speaker 2: think I think that it is more likely it will

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Speaker 2: be someone who who shares those same values of humility

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Speaker 2: or is it a little bit like in politics that

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Speaker 2: you seem to swing from you know, someone like Obama

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Speaker 2: to someone like Trump, that is there the chance that

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Speaker 2: will swing in a more conservative direction. As far as

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Speaker 2: who the next pope is.

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Speaker 3: Look, I have no idea at all who the next

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Speaker 3: pope will be but the cardinals who gather about one

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Speaker 3: hundred and twenty, but they will be gathering very prayerfully,

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Speaker 3: and like there's always politics that go on. But I

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Speaker 3: would I'd really hope, you know, and I've got confidence

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Speaker 3: that they will elect someone who, you know, who will

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Speaker 3: continue on that legacy. So yeah, I would hope that

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Speaker 3: that would happen.

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Speaker 2: All right, Well, thank you so much for your time

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Speaker 2: this afternoon. That is Leadorship Michael Dooley of DNEED and

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Speaker 2: we appreciate you being on the program.

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Speaker 3: Thank you very much, Jim.

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