1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:01,920 Speaker 1: So we have developments on those two kids who ran 2 00:00:01,960 --> 00:00:04,760 Speaker 1: away from the military boot camps last week. They've now 3 00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:08,920 Speaker 1: been arrested, but that's after allegedly stealing a car running 4 00:00:08,920 --> 00:00:11,480 Speaker 1: from the cops. One tried then to carjack another car 5 00:00:11,480 --> 00:00:13,920 Speaker 1: with a machete and when the police searched them they 6 00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:16,280 Speaker 1: found knives in balaclava. Is quite apart from the machete 7 00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:18,640 Speaker 1: as well. Now, former Boss of Business New Zealand Filler 8 00:00:18,720 --> 00:00:21,000 Speaker 1: Ralli was on the Welfare Expert Advisory Group and is 9 00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:21,239 Speaker 1: with us. 10 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:22,959 Speaker 2: Now, hey Phil, here you go. 11 00:00:23,200 --> 00:00:25,320 Speaker 1: Phil, I'm very well, thank you. Now, do we do 12 00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:27,200 Speaker 1: what Labor and the Greens want us to do and 13 00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:28,520 Speaker 1: we shut these boot camps down? 14 00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:31,400 Speaker 2: Of course, not actually they work. I mean I was 15 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:35,080 Speaker 2: on one, not as participant, but as a sponsor of 16 00:00:35,080 --> 00:00:37,879 Speaker 2: one in the John Key government, that version of it, 17 00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:40,680 Speaker 2: and that the change. I was not be necessarily an 18 00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:43,159 Speaker 2: advocate turning up to see this thing work. But at 19 00:00:43,159 --> 00:00:45,240 Speaker 2: the end of it, these kids had had their lives 20 00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:48,080 Speaker 2: change for the better and the only issue was afterwards 21 00:00:48,080 --> 00:00:50,800 Speaker 2: they just went back to their old ways and this 22 00:00:50,880 --> 00:00:54,040 Speaker 2: new one, I'm told, the attempting to solve that issue. 23 00:00:54,040 --> 00:00:57,200 Speaker 2: But now these are troubled kids, and they've had tough upbringings, 24 00:00:57,200 --> 00:00:59,960 Speaker 2: and so who knew that sometimes they might have gone 25 00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:02,280 Speaker 2: and do bad things. And I know that's a terrible 26 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:04,840 Speaker 2: thing that's happen, but you can't blame the whole system 27 00:01:05,360 --> 00:01:07,640 Speaker 2: just on that on that issue. And I think we 28 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:09,160 Speaker 2: need to see it through now because I can tell 29 00:01:09,160 --> 00:01:11,280 Speaker 2: you from a personal experience of seeing one of these 30 00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:13,680 Speaker 2: things in action, they work these tid to walk out 31 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:17,600 Speaker 2: better sober, you know, together, more team build if it's 32 00:01:17,600 --> 00:01:20,400 Speaker 2: not on, and they just need support to to realtigrate 33 00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:22,160 Speaker 2: back into a better life ahead. 34 00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:24,880 Speaker 1: Does this suggest to you that perhaps what needs to 35 00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:27,320 Speaker 1: happen here is that whatever the wrap around is, that 36 00:01:27,319 --> 00:01:29,200 Speaker 1: that happens once the back in the community, which is 37 00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:31,959 Speaker 1: where these two boys were, that needs to be beefed up. 38 00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:35,920 Speaker 2: Absolutely. The biggest shar I said to MSD officials when 39 00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:37,360 Speaker 2: I was on the last one a few years ago. 40 00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:41,280 Speaker 2: What happens now, and this is on graduation day, proud 41 00:01:41,319 --> 00:01:44,880 Speaker 2: parents turning up, proud family members turning up. Really great, great, 42 00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:48,560 Speaker 2: a great occasion, But but what the officials were saying was, 43 00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:49,960 Speaker 2: some of these things are just going to go back to, 44 00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:52,560 Speaker 2: you know, whatever they went in beforehand and they're just 45 00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:54,880 Speaker 2: going to regress. And sadly I didn't get to something 46 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 2: that many people at the ministry, we're all that supportive 47 00:01:58,200 --> 00:02:00,760 Speaker 2: of the whole process, so they were' missus leaning into 48 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:03,160 Speaker 2: making the kinds of changes that are necessary there. This 49 00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:06,040 Speaker 2: government's saying, Okay, we're going to have after care, We're 50 00:02:06,080 --> 00:02:08,519 Speaker 2: going to have some help for the kids to actually 51 00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:11,560 Speaker 2: carry on the good experiences after this process, and I 52 00:02:11,560 --> 00:02:14,040 Speaker 2: think that's absolutely right. Well, it worked not for every kid, 53 00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:17,320 Speaker 2: but it works for some. I suspect it definitely worked 54 00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:19,200 Speaker 2: for some of the kids I saw, and let's make 55 00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:21,320 Speaker 2: sure that it can be made to work rather than 56 00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:25,160 Speaker 2: getting into some of those brick bats throwing just uti politics. 57 00:02:25,160 --> 00:02:28,080 Speaker 1: I think, yeah, totally listen on that subject. Though the 58 00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:30,239 Speaker 1: minister is not talking about this. She has not talked 59 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:32,480 Speaker 1: about this for days now, so I'm reading that she's 60 00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:34,519 Speaker 1: feeling the pressure on this. Do you think this trial 61 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:35,240 Speaker 1: can survive it? 62 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:37,799 Speaker 2: Yeah? I think it can, but I think maybe to 63 00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:41,160 Speaker 2: see it through, because otherwise all it will happens, they'll 64 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:43,320 Speaker 2: be seeing to us fallen over at the first gate. 65 00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:46,000 Speaker 2: As I say, these kids are babised, and in fact 66 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:49,280 Speaker 2: they've gone through tough times, and in fact, the government's 67 00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:52,040 Speaker 2: targeting much more of these kind of harder to solve 68 00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:55,440 Speaker 2: offenders and harder to solve young people with this particular program, 69 00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:57,040 Speaker 2: rather than some of the kids I saw it. We're 70 00:02:57,080 --> 00:02:59,600 Speaker 2: just off the rails really, so you can imagine that 71 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:01,120 Speaker 2: there's going to be a few more of these pamps. 72 00:03:01,760 --> 00:03:04,800 Speaker 2: I'd caught teasing troubles and through listeners out as one 73 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:07,360 Speaker 2: who's actually seen at work. It does work and I 74 00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:10,040 Speaker 2: really hope the comment will see it through and and 75 00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:10,480 Speaker 2: say the. 76 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:12,960 Speaker 1: Course, Phil, thanks for expertise, really appreciate it. This filler 77 00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:15,919 Speaker 1: Riley formal welfored expert Advisory Group member and as you heard, 78 00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:18,520 Speaker 1: involved in the last iteration of the boot camps. For 79 00:03:18,639 --> 00:03:22,000 Speaker 1: more from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to news talks. 80 00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:25,240 Speaker 2: It'd be from six am weekdays, or follow the podcast 81 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:26,160 Speaker 2: on iHeartRadio.