1 00:00:02,680 --> 00:00:08,080 Speaker 1: Madam Money. Hi, I'm Liam Dan, New Zealand Herald Business 2 00:00:08,200 --> 00:00:12,080 Speaker 1: Editor at Large and welcome to this episode of Money Talks. 3 00:00:12,600 --> 00:00:15,720 Speaker 1: This is a podcast about money, but we're not going 4 00:00:15,760 --> 00:00:17,880 Speaker 1: to tell you how to get rich, and we're not 5 00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:20,000 Speaker 1: going to try and pick the next interest rate move. 6 00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:23,880 Speaker 1: In this series, I'll be talking to interesting New Zealanders 7 00:00:24,040 --> 00:00:27,200 Speaker 1: about how money has shaped their lives and what they've 8 00:00:27,280 --> 00:00:30,800 Speaker 1: learned over the years. For today's podcast, I'm joined by 9 00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:34,720 Speaker 1: Emma Lusham, the co founder and CEO of her eponymous 10 00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:39,000 Speaker 1: skincare company, Emma Lusham. The company has been described as 11 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:42,120 Speaker 1: a cult favorite since launching in twenty nineteen, and has 12 00:00:42,159 --> 00:00:47,400 Speaker 1: often described as the world's first climate positive beauty brand Cure. Emma, 13 00:00:47,479 --> 00:00:48,400 Speaker 1: welcome to Money Talks. 14 00:00:48,600 --> 00:00:49,760 Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me. 15 00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:53,320 Speaker 1: Hey, look, you're probably looking at me thinking, well, obviously 16 00:00:53,360 --> 00:00:56,040 Speaker 1: not a big skincare product user. 17 00:00:56,320 --> 00:00:57,959 Speaker 2: Who know it's been looking pretty good? 18 00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:02,840 Speaker 1: Cool? Well, you've just handed me a supernatural is it? 19 00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:07,880 Speaker 1: Vitali Tarie Tarlie face Electra. Yes, So tell me about that. 20 00:01:08,440 --> 00:01:09,440 Speaker 1: What have you given me there? 21 00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:11,760 Speaker 2: It was in response to our customers that came to 22 00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:14,039 Speaker 2: us and said that they didn't want to go down 23 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:16,640 Speaker 2: the botox path, but they wanted something as close as 24 00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:19,600 Speaker 2: possible in a bottle, and we took that challenge. 25 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:19,920 Speaker 1: John. 26 00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:23,320 Speaker 2: We have physiologists who understand how the skin works and 27 00:01:23,440 --> 00:01:25,679 Speaker 2: work for six months to understand how we could sort 28 00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:28,600 Speaker 2: of replicate some of the benefits of botox. It's proven 29 00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:32,240 Speaker 2: in a French lab to actually relax muscles within twenty 30 00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:35,720 Speaker 2: four hours and ninety one percent, so incredible, unique, world 31 00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:40,120 Speaker 2: first testing and it's been a huge chat. We launched 32 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:45,760 Speaker 2: it a month ago now and we sort of exceeded 33 00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:49,080 Speaker 2: projections and sales on it, which has been really really exciting. 34 00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:50,720 Speaker 1: Cool, exciting. I think I'll give it a try. 35 00:01:51,160 --> 00:01:52,000 Speaker 2: Let me know what you think. 36 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:54,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll talk a bit more about the brand and 37 00:01:54,400 --> 00:01:56,640 Speaker 1: some of that. Obviously it is quite a scientific process 38 00:01:56,680 --> 00:01:59,240 Speaker 1: that goes on there. But I'm keen to get right 39 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:01,480 Speaker 1: back to the beginning and ask, you know, what were 40 00:02:01,520 --> 00:02:03,600 Speaker 1: your first memories of money and holding it in your 41 00:02:03,600 --> 00:02:04,520 Speaker 1: hand and that sort of thing. 42 00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:08,880 Speaker 2: We grew up in the Waikato. My parents said there 43 00:02:08,919 --> 00:02:11,919 Speaker 2: was four of us in our family, and my parents 44 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:16,959 Speaker 2: really modeled hard work to me. My dad before he 45 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:19,639 Speaker 2: would go to his full time job as a lifestock 46 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:24,240 Speaker 2: officer would share milk cows before, and I was always 47 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:26,639 Speaker 2: really interested and wanted to spend time with dads who 48 00:02:26,639 --> 00:02:29,360 Speaker 2: would go along with him, and as early as eight 49 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:32,799 Speaker 2: years old, and he would give me some pocket money 50 00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:35,400 Speaker 2: because of that. I didn't do it. Because of that. 51 00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:37,320 Speaker 2: I just loved spend the time with my dad and 52 00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:39,800 Speaker 2: being out and with the animals. But that would be 53 00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:40,960 Speaker 2: my first recollection. 54 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:43,160 Speaker 1: Oh cool. And so when you got pocket money, did 55 00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:45,480 Speaker 1: you save for things or did you spend it? Do 56 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:47,960 Speaker 1: you remember what your sort of dreams and aspirations for 57 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:49,320 Speaker 1: money were as an eight year old? 58 00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:54,120 Speaker 2: Not this, I to be honest. I think I spent 59 00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:56,639 Speaker 2: it at the local dairy and pick and mix lollies, 60 00:02:56,720 --> 00:02:59,680 Speaker 2: and at that age it wasn't a lot, but just 61 00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:01,000 Speaker 2: those treats. 62 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 1: And I suppose, I mean, you know, you say, you 63 00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:07,280 Speaker 1: know you weren't obviously thinking about this kind of company 64 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:09,000 Speaker 1: and brand and things like that. But as say, a 65 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:13,040 Speaker 1: teenager and growing up, were you someone who was aware 66 00:03:13,080 --> 00:03:15,560 Speaker 1: of makeup and beauty products and was interested in that? 67 00:03:16,680 --> 00:03:20,040 Speaker 2: Not really. I grew up in the Waikato than we 68 00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:23,360 Speaker 2: had a stint in the West Coast, and I didn't 69 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:26,959 Speaker 2: use skincare on makeup until eighteen nineteen. Until I was 70 00:03:26,960 --> 00:03:29,360 Speaker 2: a university I was a bit of a tomboy and 71 00:03:29,919 --> 00:03:33,320 Speaker 2: loved playing sport and thing out of nature, riding horses 72 00:03:33,320 --> 00:03:35,880 Speaker 2: and with my friends, and it wasn't really something on 73 00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:39,200 Speaker 2: my mind. I think more that was on my mind 74 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:42,640 Speaker 2: as I've always sort of loved solving problems, a little 75 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:46,720 Speaker 2: bit of a misfit and rebellious child at times, and 76 00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:50,520 Speaker 2: sort of challenging the status quos. So it was more 77 00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:53,360 Speaker 2: that immolution came from who I am as a person 78 00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:55,920 Speaker 2: rather than interest in wanting to have a skincare brand. 79 00:03:56,080 --> 00:03:58,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I'm wondering, did you get you know, sort 80 00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:01,880 Speaker 1: of money and financial stuff and a sense of doing business. 81 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:04,480 Speaker 1: Did you get that from from? I guess with the 82 00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:06,320 Speaker 1: farm and also with your dad being a you know, 83 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:09,160 Speaker 1: a livestock agent, those are sort of quite sort of 84 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:11,520 Speaker 1: business y type type of things, right. 85 00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:17,360 Speaker 2: I think what I got from my parents is the 86 00:04:17,400 --> 00:04:21,240 Speaker 2: knowledge of just how hard work is, tenacity, and that 87 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:23,920 Speaker 2: you know, nothing was below them. My mum had four 88 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:26,599 Speaker 2: children and in the evenings when dad would get home 89 00:04:26,920 --> 00:04:29,400 Speaker 2: from working, she would go and clean the local banks. 90 00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:32,400 Speaker 2: And I think that taught me a lot of humility 91 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:37,400 Speaker 2: and being willing to roll up my sleeves and do 92 00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:40,880 Speaker 2: things if it meant I could be better off, my 93 00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:42,040 Speaker 2: family could be better off. 94 00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:43,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, do you do you recall a sense 95 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:48,600 Speaker 1: of how, you know, how the financial situation felt generally 96 00:04:48,839 --> 00:04:51,000 Speaker 1: as a child or was it just something in the background. 97 00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:53,680 Speaker 1: I mean, was it a comfortable childhood or was it 98 00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:56,440 Speaker 1: a normal sort of middle class child and how did 99 00:04:56,440 --> 00:04:57,320 Speaker 1: you how did you sort of view it? 100 00:04:57,360 --> 00:04:59,600 Speaker 2: I would say middle class. We didn't have a lot. 101 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:01,800 Speaker 2: There was four of us. My parents were young when 102 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:06,080 Speaker 2: they had us. They we always had opportunities, and if 103 00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:09,080 Speaker 2: we wanted to play sport or needed things for school, 104 00:05:09,360 --> 00:05:11,960 Speaker 2: or needed clothes and food on the table, that was 105 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:16,400 Speaker 2: absolutely there. It wasn't the extras for overseas holidays or 106 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:19,680 Speaker 2: especially coming to my teenage years, like clothing that I 107 00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:23,360 Speaker 2: wanted and things like that. But I think I always 108 00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:25,960 Speaker 2: learned from my parents. Really it is the simple things 109 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:29,040 Speaker 2: that make you happy and something of yeah, yeah, were 110 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:29,440 Speaker 2: you a good. 111 00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:31,680 Speaker 1: Kid at school? I mean you said you're a bit rebellious. 112 00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:38,240 Speaker 2: I I think I was good. I definitely challenged things 113 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:43,560 Speaker 2: and asked a lot of questions, but I still did well, 114 00:05:43,640 --> 00:05:46,400 Speaker 2: I definitely wasn't the top of the class, but I 115 00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:49,520 Speaker 2: was someone that thought differently and could solve problems well. 116 00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:53,039 Speaker 2: And something I say to other kids like double down 117 00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:55,400 Speaker 2: on what you are good at and not worry so 118 00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:58,040 Speaker 2: much if you're not great at every subject at school. 119 00:05:58,240 --> 00:06:00,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, were the subjects you chosen? Again? Going 120 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:04,720 Speaker 1: through to university, were you sort on a career path 121 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:05,960 Speaker 1: towards business? 122 00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:11,919 Speaker 2: I started studying science at university, actually chemistry and biology, 123 00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:15,960 Speaker 2: and as additional papers, I did law papers and business 124 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:19,200 Speaker 2: papers and started to do quite well in the business 125 00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:22,480 Speaker 2: papers and got asked to go into the honors side 126 00:06:22,520 --> 00:06:27,520 Speaker 2: of things at the Cargo University, and was also really 127 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:29,480 Speaker 2: keen and put my hand up to work with local 128 00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:33,400 Speaker 2: Otago businesses to sort of help within their business and 129 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:35,599 Speaker 2: solving their problems. And it was always the problem that 130 00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:39,120 Speaker 2: they didn't think it was, and I just naturally started 131 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:41,279 Speaker 2: to go down that path and be more in client 132 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:43,719 Speaker 2: and so went down more of a business path and 133 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:45,279 Speaker 2: studied and finished a degree. 134 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:46,719 Speaker 1: I guess it's a great way to get some on 135 00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:49,599 Speaker 1: the ground experience too, to take what you're learning in 136 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:51,920 Speaker 1: the classroom and apply it in the real world. 137 00:06:52,040 --> 00:06:55,000 Speaker 2: Absolutely, and I was fortunate for my final year I 138 00:06:55,080 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 2: did period in Barcelona at ASAD, which is one of 139 00:06:59,400 --> 00:07:02,039 Speaker 2: their top business schools, and it was a completely different 140 00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:04,440 Speaker 2: way of learning in that we were given from our 141 00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:08,160 Speaker 2: lecturers who worked in places like Google, real life business 142 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:11,200 Speaker 2: challenges they were facing at that time to solve with them. 143 00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:13,800 Speaker 2: And I thrived in that and I absolutely loved that 144 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:14,360 Speaker 2: that style. 145 00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:17,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, my researcher points out, this is also where a 146 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:20,000 Speaker 1: Tiger university, this is where you meet your husband. Is 147 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:20,400 Speaker 1: that right? 148 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:23,680 Speaker 2: We did meet at Otago, but we didn't reconnect until 149 00:07:23,720 --> 00:07:27,080 Speaker 2: he came back from London and I was in Auckland 150 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:28,320 Speaker 2: and we bumped into each other. 151 00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:32,239 Speaker 1: And so so out of university, what was the first 152 00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:34,400 Speaker 1: first career step? You know, what was the first job? 153 00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:37,760 Speaker 2: I actually went and worked in Wellington for the Business 154 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:41,760 Speaker 2: round Table, so more in like the public policy space, 155 00:07:42,080 --> 00:07:45,960 Speaker 2: and like really enjoyed that job and my time there 156 00:07:46,120 --> 00:07:48,000 Speaker 2: in economics and understanding. 157 00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:49,960 Speaker 1: So what era was that? I mean they sort of 158 00:07:50,120 --> 00:07:53,080 Speaker 1: changed name and evolved a bit later on. 159 00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:56,680 Speaker 2: They Yes, it was when Roger Kerr was running and 160 00:07:57,880 --> 00:08:00,680 Speaker 2: learned a lot from Roger Kerr and Catherine who were 161 00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:04,840 Speaker 2: just phenomenal business people and good people and just. 162 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 1: To get that economics grounding too. They'll be very focused 163 00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:07,600 Speaker 1: on that. 164 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:13,360 Speaker 2: Absolutely I really did, and just the insights there and 165 00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:17,600 Speaker 2: really expanded my knowledge in that more political space. And 166 00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:19,080 Speaker 2: then move comes right too. 167 00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:22,520 Speaker 1: I mean they were getting involved in all sorts of 168 00:08:22,560 --> 00:08:24,440 Speaker 1: political debates and all that sort of stuff. Were you 169 00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:26,480 Speaker 1: were you in the thick of. 170 00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:28,640 Speaker 2: That, absolutely at the thick of that and getting to 171 00:08:29,360 --> 00:08:32,000 Speaker 2: you know, rub shoulders with some of the top CEOs 172 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:34,760 Speaker 2: in New Zealand. I think what they instilled in me 173 00:08:34,920 --> 00:08:37,800 Speaker 2: is that like, you know, that wasn't out of reach, 174 00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:41,400 Speaker 2: and like having that exposure being part of those conversations 175 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:44,600 Speaker 2: for hugely valuable for my confidence. It's such an early 176 00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:45,480 Speaker 2: stage of my career. 177 00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:48,400 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, during that era, you know, your first sort 178 00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:52,120 Speaker 1: of job was a sort of a sense of finally 179 00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:53,520 Speaker 1: having a little bit of money or you know, I 180 00:08:53,559 --> 00:08:56,480 Speaker 1: know you obviously not a huge salary when you first 181 00:08:56,480 --> 00:08:58,520 Speaker 1: come out, but going from being a student and things, 182 00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:01,440 Speaker 1: was there a sense that you know that you were 183 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:03,959 Speaker 1: on a financial path. 184 00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:07,280 Speaker 2: It did? It did. It was, as you say, coming 185 00:09:07,280 --> 00:09:10,000 Speaker 2: out of a university and that salary like challenging and a 186 00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:13,760 Speaker 2: really good test to sort of budgeting and managing things. 187 00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:17,640 Speaker 2: And I remember Mecca actually was in the cokeldes and 188 00:09:17,679 --> 00:09:20,240 Speaker 2: stained building that I was in, and I'd walk past 189 00:09:20,320 --> 00:09:23,720 Speaker 2: it every lunch time and that was my kryptonite. 190 00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:26,199 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, things that you shouldn't it couldn't. 191 00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:27,520 Speaker 2: Quite afford totally. 192 00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:30,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. And so that in terms of you know, 193 00:09:30,679 --> 00:09:33,040 Speaker 1: executive career, Brother was the big break, is that right? 194 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:35,079 Speaker 1: For You're there for eight years? How did you get 195 00:09:35,120 --> 00:09:36,880 Speaker 1: into Brother as a business? 196 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:41,760 Speaker 2: They were based in Wellington and I it was a 197 00:09:41,800 --> 00:09:45,800 Speaker 2: global business obviously, and I was really intrigued to go 198 00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:48,560 Speaker 2: more into a into a more of a business marketing 199 00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:53,800 Speaker 2: strategy role and it was one that had international opening 200 00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:56,480 Speaker 2: as well, so I was working across like Singapore and 201 00:09:56,559 --> 00:10:00,480 Speaker 2: Japan and the UK in the US and that really 202 00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:03,320 Speaker 2: interest me and so I played for it. I got 203 00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:06,360 Speaker 2: the role and then quickly worked my way up to 204 00:10:07,280 --> 00:10:11,640 Speaker 2: senior executive role and managing some big portfolios internationally. And 205 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:14,360 Speaker 2: I think for me it was I was willing to 206 00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:18,600 Speaker 2: work a lot harder than anyone else, willing to speak 207 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:23,640 Speaker 2: to that my child absolutely do the work that others 208 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:26,400 Speaker 2: didn't want to do because it was below them, and 209 00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:29,560 Speaker 2: just my ability to solve problems that others. 210 00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:31,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, and did that take you overseas? 211 00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:35,640 Speaker 2: It did. I spent a lot of time in Japan, Nagoya, 212 00:10:35,960 --> 00:10:39,880 Speaker 2: and in Singapore and the UK and America, and so 213 00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:44,000 Speaker 2: that was absolutely fantastic for someone in their late twenties. 214 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:48,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, and you did as eight years? Does it sound right? Yeah? 215 00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:51,960 Speaker 1: I mean it's on one hand, it's quite a long 216 00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:53,240 Speaker 1: time to stay with the tech company. But on the 217 00:10:53,280 --> 00:10:57,360 Speaker 1: other hand, I guess sometimes people follow one company right through, 218 00:10:57,400 --> 00:11:00,840 Speaker 1: like you know, Christopher Luxen with Unilever and things. You know, 219 00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:03,400 Speaker 1: you can they have an amazing organization and ability to 220 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:06,160 Speaker 1: switch roles. You wouldn't tempt to just to sort of 221 00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:09,800 Speaker 1: follow the career path right through, you know, with one 222 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:10,640 Speaker 1: big organization. 223 00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:14,520 Speaker 2: Well, I was, and it was such a tricky decision 224 00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:17,360 Speaker 2: to make. Do I take this punt and launch a 225 00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:20,439 Speaker 2: company that I was starting from scratch? There was no 226 00:11:20,559 --> 00:11:24,439 Speaker 2: guarantees or I had this opportunity with brother to go 227 00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:27,480 Speaker 2: on to become a director, potentially the one of the 228 00:11:27,480 --> 00:11:32,640 Speaker 2: first female CEOs of the company. And I had to 229 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:36,240 Speaker 2: make a call, which was tough, but I believed that 230 00:11:36,520 --> 00:11:38,360 Speaker 2: if there's a backup plan, you're not going to go 231 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:40,200 Speaker 2: all in and so I had no plan B. There 232 00:11:40,280 --> 00:11:41,960 Speaker 2: was no plan B. I had to five account of 233 00:11:41,960 --> 00:11:43,200 Speaker 2: all and go for it. 234 00:11:44,559 --> 00:11:48,120 Speaker 1: Again. This is the research notes are telling me, and 235 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:51,360 Speaker 1: I sort of not hesitate to mention it, but it 236 00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:54,720 Speaker 1: is a sort of life and death and the unfortunate 237 00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:57,160 Speaker 1: passing of your mother has been cited. You've cited as 238 00:11:57,200 --> 00:12:00,320 Speaker 1: one of the reasons for making the big MO. Was 239 00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:01,079 Speaker 1: that a driver? 240 00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:06,360 Speaker 2: Yes, it was when everything really connected for me and 241 00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:10,400 Speaker 2: a moment of pause and reflection around my health and 242 00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:13,000 Speaker 2: way that I was living and coming into my thirties 243 00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:17,480 Speaker 2: and also trying to get pregnant. And I did a 244 00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:20,880 Speaker 2: lot of research into sleep and exercise and food, and 245 00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:23,680 Speaker 2: part of the research and discussions I had was with 246 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:27,720 Speaker 2: my doctor where it was raised that hydroquinone that I 247 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:31,880 Speaker 2: was using for hyperfigmentation was really questionable and something I 248 00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:35,720 Speaker 2: could should reconsider. I then thought, well, for me, what 249 00:12:35,880 --> 00:12:39,800 Speaker 2: I feel more comfortable with using is natural skincare that 250 00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:42,680 Speaker 2: seemed the most luxurious to me the best for my health. 251 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:45,160 Speaker 2: And when I went to the market looking for natural 252 00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:48,439 Speaker 2: skin care that really worked and had science and evidence 253 00:12:48,520 --> 00:12:52,600 Speaker 2: and luxury aspect to it, it didn't exist. It was 254 00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:55,760 Speaker 2: a huge gap internationally for that, and I knew if 255 00:12:55,760 --> 00:12:58,920 Speaker 2: I wanted it, other people would want it to So. 256 00:12:58,840 --> 00:13:02,160 Speaker 1: That's when I sort of moments where all the work 257 00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:05,040 Speaker 1: you've done to understand business and all that sort of 258 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:08,000 Speaker 1: stuff comes together with a sort of very personal experience 259 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:11,360 Speaker 1: about seeing a gap in the market. Absolutely, was it 260 00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:12,440 Speaker 1: a like a light bulb moment. 261 00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:16,120 Speaker 2: It was because I genuinely didn't set out to launch 262 00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:19,240 Speaker 2: a skin care brand or a beauty brand. I came 263 00:13:19,280 --> 00:13:22,320 Speaker 2: across this this problem. It was me since a child, 264 00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:26,720 Speaker 2: but as a child loving solving problems, challenging things, having 265 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:29,880 Speaker 2: this experience with business and working across multiple functions and 266 00:13:30,040 --> 00:13:33,839 Speaker 2: knowing how to pull together a business and a plan 267 00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:38,120 Speaker 2: and a strategy and products and going I think, you know, 268 00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:40,040 Speaker 2: I think I can do this, And there was something 269 00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:41,520 Speaker 2: that really lit up inside of me. 270 00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:51,760 Speaker 1: It took three years to launch the brand. You know, 271 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:54,640 Speaker 1: what was the process of doing that? Like, I mean, 272 00:13:54,920 --> 00:13:58,760 Speaker 1: you know, you're transferring skills, but obviously you know, from 273 00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:03,640 Speaker 1: the tech industry across to something a very different industry. 274 00:14:03,640 --> 00:14:06,120 Speaker 1: Did you have to sort of learn the basics of 275 00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:07,400 Speaker 1: the industry from the ground up? 276 00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:11,360 Speaker 2: Steep learning curve? Absolutely, but anything is possible to put 277 00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:14,160 Speaker 2: your mind to it. I brought on a co founder, 278 00:14:14,440 --> 00:14:17,440 Speaker 2: Kimberly Morrison. We worked together at the time, and I 279 00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:19,880 Speaker 2: said to her one lunch time, I have this idea. 280 00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:22,480 Speaker 2: I really think there is something here and that we 281 00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:27,200 Speaker 2: can do something better and that exists on the market. 282 00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:30,000 Speaker 2: So we spent three years. We had to keep our 283 00:14:30,680 --> 00:14:33,760 Speaker 2: day jobs because we needed the money to fund this business, 284 00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:35,760 Speaker 2: and so we'd work in the day we both had 285 00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:38,520 Speaker 2: really full on jobs, and then every evening would be 286 00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:41,680 Speaker 2: online together every weekend, and then we'd take our leave 287 00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:46,400 Speaker 2: to work on the business. So I think wasn't the 288 00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:47,880 Speaker 2: case that we had a whole lot of money or 289 00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:51,240 Speaker 2: investment from the start that we could quote our jobs 290 00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:54,760 Speaker 2: to do both of them, which was challenging. 291 00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:56,480 Speaker 1: Because it's an industry where you've got to look. I mean, 292 00:14:56,760 --> 00:15:00,520 Speaker 1: there's an element of glamour and sophistication all that you 293 00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:03,080 Speaker 1: can't sort of bluff that too easily, can you. How 294 00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:07,360 Speaker 1: do you sort of you know, without masses of capital investment. 295 00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:11,200 Speaker 2: No, no, you we believe, you know, we believe in 296 00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:14,960 Speaker 2: the start of setting up a really robust global company, 297 00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:19,760 Speaker 2: and so always set out and establish that from the start. 298 00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:21,560 Speaker 2: I think at the start we were really clear on 299 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:24,479 Speaker 2: the things that we would invest in and the non negotiables, 300 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:27,200 Speaker 2: and that for us was the testing and the scientific 301 00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:30,280 Speaker 2: research behind the products to prove that they worked and 302 00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:34,760 Speaker 2: outperformed traditional skincare. So we just prioritized the way that 303 00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:37,320 Speaker 2: we invested, and we were just smart with how we 304 00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:42,680 Speaker 2: managed the cash flow and our approach to spend at 305 00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:44,400 Speaker 2: the start of the business to sort of get runs 306 00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:46,480 Speaker 2: on the board, get profitable to better put that back 307 00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:47,280 Speaker 2: into the company. 308 00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:49,880 Speaker 1: And did you have a background in the marketing side. 309 00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:52,360 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, obviously you've put your name. Your 310 00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:54,720 Speaker 1: name is the brand, so it's kind of a all 311 00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:55,800 Speaker 1: in on the marketing, right. 312 00:15:56,240 --> 00:15:59,720 Speaker 2: Yes, I did have background in marketing, and I felt 313 00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:03,000 Speaker 2: com with it being my name because so much of 314 00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:06,320 Speaker 2: it reflected the values that I have or the standards 315 00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:09,000 Speaker 2: I hold myself up to. And it was very much 316 00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:12,120 Speaker 2: a personal story and a brand that we want people 317 00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:14,760 Speaker 2: to connect with and feel that they're connecting with a 318 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:17,800 Speaker 2: human on and so that's sort of some of the 319 00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:21,040 Speaker 2: reasons as to why it's called Emma Luisham. But did 320 00:16:21,040 --> 00:16:24,120 Speaker 2: have a background many in strategy. But I think if 321 00:16:24,160 --> 00:16:25,160 Speaker 2: you do. 322 00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:27,200 Speaker 1: A play is it I mean it's helpful and that 323 00:16:27,240 --> 00:16:29,680 Speaker 1: you're able to you know, you're the person who's going 324 00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:33,120 Speaker 1: to sell that brand. Brand, it's kind of got your 325 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:36,200 Speaker 1: name on it, but you you I guess it puts 326 00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:39,120 Speaker 1: you out there in the in the in the public 327 00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:42,160 Speaker 1: sort of space that maybe you're not if you're an 328 00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:46,000 Speaker 1: executive at Brother. Was that a challenge? I mean, all 329 00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:48,160 Speaker 1: all that kind of end of the marketing world. 330 00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:51,920 Speaker 2: It's been unique and different. But I've really enjoyed that 331 00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:54,200 Speaker 2: part of it. And it looks like connecting with my 332 00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:57,000 Speaker 2: like our customers and connected with work. 333 00:16:56,920 --> 00:16:58,960 Speaker 1: Front facing social media all that sort of stuff. 334 00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:02,520 Speaker 2: Yes, exactly, I have a very private social media which 335 00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:05,840 Speaker 2: I connect with by brands and families. But the emmolition 336 00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:08,760 Speaker 2: one is very much the world of emolution and is 337 00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:10,440 Speaker 2: in the company and. 338 00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:13,560 Speaker 1: Talking about the values and things. You take a very ethical, 339 00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:16,280 Speaker 1: you know, ethically grounded approach to the business, so no 340 00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:20,520 Speaker 1: animal testing, climate positive. As we mentioned earlier, you know 341 00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:23,840 Speaker 1: what was behind your desire to do it that way 342 00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:27,479 Speaker 1: and to sort of make better focus and also to 343 00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:29,560 Speaker 1: what extent do you have to do you feel that 344 00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:32,119 Speaker 1: there was is there a trade or for a sacrifice 345 00:17:32,119 --> 00:17:34,200 Speaker 1: on the pure financial when you do it that way. 346 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:37,760 Speaker 2: Good questions from the start, and one of the other 347 00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:40,520 Speaker 2: light bulb moments that we had was that the beauty 348 00:17:40,560 --> 00:17:45,639 Speaker 2: industry needed reimagining, rethinking. The packaging side of things is 349 00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:48,440 Speaker 2: our largest carbon emitter, and it also generates one hundred 350 00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:51,440 Speaker 2: billion units of waste annually, which is then landfall or 351 00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:54,320 Speaker 2: being burnt. And we could see this and knew that 352 00:17:54,359 --> 00:17:56,240 Speaker 2: there must be a better way, and the way is 353 00:17:56,240 --> 00:18:01,159 Speaker 2: through circular thinking, circular models, refillable products, and taking ownership 354 00:18:01,440 --> 00:18:03,960 Speaker 2: for that material end of life, seeing it as precious 355 00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:06,600 Speaker 2: and taking it back, which we do through our emmiluition 356 00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:10,000 Speaker 2: and beauty circle. And so from the get go we 357 00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:14,119 Speaker 2: were solving two problems, natural products that worked and were luxurious. 358 00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:16,359 Speaker 2: And if we knew that, if we could achieve that, 359 00:18:16,520 --> 00:18:18,959 Speaker 2: we could change a business model, because people first and 360 00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:23,640 Speaker 2: foremost by exceptional products, then we give them a much 361 00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:26,760 Speaker 2: more sustainable model to operate within, which is our refills 362 00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:30,520 Speaker 2: and our return models. For me, it was always about 363 00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:33,680 Speaker 2: we knew this information. We really do dig deep into 364 00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:37,800 Speaker 2: the information. Because we knew it. We couldn't just carry 365 00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:39,440 Speaker 2: on with how it always been done. It wasn't the 366 00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:41,920 Speaker 2: right thing to do, the right thing to do is 367 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:44,399 Speaker 2: to acknowledge that is a problem that we need to 368 00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:47,399 Speaker 2: own and take accountability for. So I think the are 369 00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:54,280 Speaker 2: the values about understanding, taking accountability, solving the hard problems, 370 00:18:54,760 --> 00:18:56,880 Speaker 2: and not just looking left and right and saying, well 371 00:18:56,920 --> 00:18:59,680 Speaker 2: everyone else is doing it, that's okay, that's not our way. 372 00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:01,240 Speaker 2: Truly think differently. 373 00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:03,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I guess there's no way to corners though, 374 00:19:03,760 --> 00:19:05,640 Speaker 1: once you've committed to that. You know, was there ever 375 00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:08,280 Speaker 1: times when you were sort of lying awake at night 376 00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:11,080 Speaker 1: worrying about the financial side because of the you know, 377 00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:13,960 Speaker 1: there's got to be X. It pays off in the 378 00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:17,119 Speaker 1: long run, obviously, and it's paying off now, but you know, 379 00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:20,080 Speaker 1: when you're starting out, that extra outlay to do things 380 00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:24,000 Speaker 1: properly and do things ethically can be scary. I guess 381 00:19:24,119 --> 00:19:24,600 Speaker 1: it can be. 382 00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:28,240 Speaker 2: But we're always playing the long game. I really believe 383 00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:31,439 Speaker 2: in that if you make those decisions for the long term, 384 00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:34,440 Speaker 2: and that did look like investing in huge amount of 385 00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:39,000 Speaker 2: packaging that was refillable because that didn't exist, and right 386 00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:41,200 Speaker 2: there and then that was challenging, but we knew that 387 00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:44,439 Speaker 2: that would pay off, and now our refillable products, our 388 00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:48,679 Speaker 2: refill sales are higher than our well manske it is 389 00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:49,760 Speaker 2: already paying off and. 390 00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:53,560 Speaker 1: That is sort of transforming the way the industry works. Yes, 391 00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:57,920 Speaker 1: we saw that in one profile that you a former 392 00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:00,320 Speaker 1: Money Talks guest Rob Fife was an investor. How did 393 00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:02,479 Speaker 1: he get involved and how did you get How did 394 00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:05,400 Speaker 1: you go about getting those kind of investors involved pitching? 395 00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:10,560 Speaker 2: It was actually through Sarah, his wife, who had used 396 00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:13,119 Speaker 2: the product and seen them a lurisham and we'd actually 397 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:18,520 Speaker 2: just met to have to catch up and Sarah's obviously 398 00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:21,919 Speaker 2: also been successful in business, and just to get some 399 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:26,280 Speaker 2: advice from her and her like lending in air, and 400 00:20:26,359 --> 00:20:31,399 Speaker 2: it really developed from there. We aligned, we had good conversations. 401 00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:34,760 Speaker 2: We then met Rob and it was just a natural next. 402 00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:37,680 Speaker 2: He loves r brand he does he does and ones 403 00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:40,520 Speaker 2: that are really wanting to achieve on a global. 404 00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:42,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right, taking it out to the world. Yes, 405 00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:46,480 Speaker 1: one sort of tough question here, but you know, cost 406 00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:50,080 Speaker 1: of living crisis and you know all the recessionary stuff 407 00:20:50,119 --> 00:20:51,560 Speaker 1: that we're going through right now. I mean, you know, 408 00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:54,080 Speaker 1: high end beauty products are sort of a luxury item. 409 00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:57,280 Speaker 1: How do you sort of focus the you know, the 410 00:20:57,359 --> 00:21:01,000 Speaker 1: marketing and the sales around those sort of issues when 411 00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:02,600 Speaker 1: we go through going through a tough. 412 00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:07,880 Speaker 2: Time for us. We genuinely believe in quality over quantity. 413 00:21:08,119 --> 00:21:10,639 Speaker 2: You buy one product with their mother or shim that 414 00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:14,399 Speaker 2: is the equivalent of four to five others. We really 415 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:19,760 Speaker 2: do pack incredible value into each product, and we've always 416 00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:24,520 Speaker 2: wanted to make luxury more accessible. For the craftsmanship of 417 00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:28,520 Speaker 2: those products, the investment that we put into research and testing, 418 00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:31,880 Speaker 2: and the level of innovative ingredients and concentrations of them, 419 00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:36,960 Speaker 2: we genuinely could charge twice the amount, but we don't 420 00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:41,160 Speaker 2: because that's been a guiding principle of the brand. You 421 00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:44,240 Speaker 2: pay for what you're going to get, and for me, 422 00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:46,440 Speaker 2: I want to create the very best products in the 423 00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:49,919 Speaker 2: world and ship those to customers, and I hand on 424 00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:52,200 Speaker 2: heart know that they are getting that and they're getting 425 00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:53,320 Speaker 2: really good value. Yeah. 426 00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:55,280 Speaker 1: I mean, do you get involved in the science side. 427 00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:57,280 Speaker 1: I mean you mentioned a bit of a bit of 428 00:21:57,320 --> 00:21:58,679 Speaker 1: science and chemistry at school. 429 00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:02,280 Speaker 2: Absolutely, I love it. I really involved with our new 430 00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:06,239 Speaker 2: product development team ol scientists. I've even gone back to 431 00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:10,160 Speaker 2: do study and courses with Harvard and physiology and biochemistry. 432 00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:14,960 Speaker 2: It's an area that I continue to personally invest in. 433 00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:16,720 Speaker 1: And that adds a lot of value to the brand. 434 00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:18,560 Speaker 1: I guess the fact that you're not just the face 435 00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:21,840 Speaker 1: of it, you're actually involved in the production of the study. 436 00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:24,440 Speaker 2: It really hands on with it. I still sign off 437 00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:27,760 Speaker 2: every batch that's produced to make sure that it. Wow, 438 00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:29,119 Speaker 2: that's the quality I expect. 439 00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:39,399 Speaker 1: Yeah, we've got a few quick fire questions. Sort of 440 00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:41,720 Speaker 1: almost touched on this earlier, but you know, what's the 441 00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:42,760 Speaker 1: poorest you've ever been? 442 00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:46,560 Speaker 2: I think living in Barcelona as a student. That was tough. 443 00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:49,760 Speaker 2: It's expensive in Europe, but it was also incredibly happy 444 00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:51,040 Speaker 2: and I loved that. 445 00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:55,280 Speaker 1: So you were at Target University and then I didn't exchange, 446 00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:58,119 Speaker 1: exchanged to Barcelona, so this was a high school. 447 00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:01,080 Speaker 2: It was a university university, my final university. I did 448 00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:05,080 Speaker 2: my finish my degree in Barcelona, which was an incredible opportunity. 449 00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:08,280 Speaker 1: And so you're poor but in a beautiful place. Yes, yes, 450 00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:10,520 Speaker 1: you walk around and stuff what. 451 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:15,120 Speaker 2: Was still so beautiful and you just may may do Yeah. 452 00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:19,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, what's the most indulgent purchase you've ever made? 453 00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:26,280 Speaker 2: I remember buying my parents' Rugby World Cup twenty fifteen. 454 00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:30,560 Speaker 2: It must have been the all black Australian Final tickets, 455 00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:34,080 Speaker 2: which was incredibly expensive for my wage at the time, 456 00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:36,920 Speaker 2: but I'm so glad. I did you know? It was 457 00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:39,639 Speaker 2: such a sme short, special moment my mum and dad, 458 00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:41,680 Speaker 2: and my mum had been really sick at the time, 459 00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:45,280 Speaker 2: so that was extravagant. 460 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:49,760 Speaker 1: Kind of thing that you never regret, right, you never regret? No, yeah, 461 00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:54,240 Speaker 1: along those lines. But you know, sort of more looking forward, 462 00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:56,119 Speaker 1: I guess do you still have things that you've fantasize 463 00:23:56,119 --> 00:23:57,800 Speaker 1: about buying one day? Like, you know, is there a 464 00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:01,080 Speaker 1: dream car or a dream bad somewhere or something. 465 00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:06,920 Speaker 2: I honestly feel that I've got everything that I need. 466 00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:09,520 Speaker 2: I think as you get older in life, you realize 467 00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:13,040 Speaker 2: that the material things don't make you happy. I think 468 00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:16,800 Speaker 2: for me, it's more wanting to buy more time, more 469 00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:20,240 Speaker 2: time with my daughter, with my family, with my friends 470 00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:22,560 Speaker 2: than material things. 471 00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:26,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it's a look, it's probably a relevant 472 00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:28,760 Speaker 1: point to ask this question that we always ask. And 473 00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:32,240 Speaker 1: but you know, how much is making money important to 474 00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:33,920 Speaker 1: you or how much of that is just sort of 475 00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:35,280 Speaker 1: a byproduct of success? 476 00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:40,280 Speaker 2: It is a byproduct. I love having a purpose and 477 00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:44,960 Speaker 2: having a job where I'm really solving real problems and 478 00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:47,240 Speaker 2: having an impact on people's lives. 479 00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:51,600 Speaker 1: Do you still imagine winning lotto, and if so, how 480 00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:52,760 Speaker 1: much do you imagine winning? 481 00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:56,760 Speaker 2: No? I hear that people that win lotter are really unhappy, 482 00:24:56,960 --> 00:24:58,840 Speaker 2: which makes sense, right, Yeah. 483 00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:00,800 Speaker 1: Well, I was like, I don't by a lot of tickets, 484 00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:02,760 Speaker 1: but when I imagine winning it, I only ever imagine 485 00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:06,000 Speaker 1: winning a few hundred thousand or something. The idea of 486 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:09,040 Speaker 1: winning a hundred million and turning upside down doesn't sound 487 00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:09,800 Speaker 1: very appealing to me. 488 00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:12,760 Speaker 2: I genuinely believe if you're not if you're waiting for 489 00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:14,760 Speaker 2: a pot of gold or a goal in the future 490 00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:17,840 Speaker 2: to be happy, you'll never be happy. It's about genuinely 491 00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:20,679 Speaker 2: being happy with where you are and your circumstances. And 492 00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:21,480 Speaker 2: so that's my. 493 00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:24,399 Speaker 1: Philosophy to it. And I guess you know. So the 494 00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:28,280 Speaker 1: goals you're setting are around apart from family stuff, I guess, 495 00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:30,360 Speaker 1: but around the business and where you want it to be. 496 00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:33,240 Speaker 2: And my personal goals. I think I've grown so much 497 00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:37,520 Speaker 2: as a person through this experience, and it's challenged and 498 00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:41,880 Speaker 2: stretched and grown me and leveled me up. And they 499 00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:45,040 Speaker 2: are the goals I have for the business and personally 500 00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:45,720 Speaker 2: and my family. 501 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:49,040 Speaker 1: Yeah. One thing we sort of well, we always ask 502 00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:51,040 Speaker 1: people if we can make your Prime Minister for the 503 00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:54,560 Speaker 1: day or you know, ruler of New Zealand for a day. 504 00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:57,800 Speaker 1: You know, what's something you would do to Sometimes I 505 00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:00,520 Speaker 1: say address economic inequality, but in this case I'd sort 506 00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:04,880 Speaker 1: of say, well, or environmental issues or something that you're 507 00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:07,439 Speaker 1: passionate about. If you could sort of bring in a 508 00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:10,360 Speaker 1: big policy to change change the country or change the world, 509 00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:11,520 Speaker 1: what would be your focus. 510 00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:15,520 Speaker 2: I think that businesses need to take more accountability for 511 00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:18,200 Speaker 2: what they bring into the world, and I think that 512 00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:23,040 Speaker 2: there needs to be more government regulation and changes in 513 00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:27,480 Speaker 2: that space to hold businesses to account. I don't think 514 00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:29,240 Speaker 2: it should be all on the government to pick up 515 00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:31,640 Speaker 2: the issues of businesses and what they do, or all 516 00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:35,679 Speaker 2: in cut up to customers and consumers as well. So 517 00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:38,000 Speaker 2: I think more rigor accountability. 518 00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:41,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, sure, I mean it sounds like you're not advocating 519 00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:44,679 Speaker 1: sort of a strict legislative approach or would you, you know, 520 00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:47,600 Speaker 1: would you toughen environmental rules or would you sort of 521 00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:50,560 Speaker 1: are you I guess I'm getting out as a quick 522 00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:55,159 Speaker 1: question about how intense you think government should get involved 523 00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:56,880 Speaker 1: in business regulation and that sort of thing. 524 00:26:57,080 --> 00:26:59,120 Speaker 2: I would hope to think that businesses do the right 525 00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:02,320 Speaker 2: thing right and we are not waiting for the government 526 00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:05,679 Speaker 2: to regulate or legislate on anything. I think that we 527 00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:09,320 Speaker 2: want to be well ahead of that. But then we'll 528 00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:13,440 Speaker 2: need to come a time where there is more regulation 529 00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:17,800 Speaker 2: and toughness from a government perspective to meet business and 530 00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:20,520 Speaker 2: challenge business and what they're doing in the way that 531 00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:21,119 Speaker 2: they're acting. 532 00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:24,960 Speaker 1: Sure. Yeah. And look, finally, Emma, just coming back to 533 00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:27,960 Speaker 1: the brand and how it's going. How is the global 534 00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:31,639 Speaker 1: roll out going in that ambition of becoming a global brand. 535 00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:36,920 Speaker 2: Really well, we're thrilled. Australia is now our largest market. 536 00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:40,040 Speaker 2: Last year we launched into the UK with the retail 537 00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:42,520 Speaker 2: called Space and K which is equivalent to Mecca, and 538 00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:44,640 Speaker 2: are now in all of their doors as well as 539 00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:47,960 Speaker 2: Harrod's and Liberty More. The further expansion in the US 540 00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:53,639 Speaker 2: this year. So just yeah, it's been an incredible reception globally. 541 00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:57,280 Speaker 2: I think for us we're still very young four and 542 00:27:57,280 --> 00:28:00,280 Speaker 2: a half years old, and we see the Australasia is 543 00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:04,040 Speaker 2: still a very key markets that we want to get right. 544 00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:07,119 Speaker 2: So although we are growing internationally, we're doing it in 545 00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:09,399 Speaker 2: a really measured and thoughtful way and not at the 546 00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:11,360 Speaker 2: compromise to what we're delivering here. 547 00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:13,919 Speaker 1: Sure, and I guess you've also got to be careful 548 00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:18,000 Speaker 1: about growing the organization too fast. Is it organic or 549 00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:19,240 Speaker 1: how do you how do you approach it from a 550 00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:19,840 Speaker 1: business point of. 551 00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:24,040 Speaker 2: View, because art and science is of wanting to do 552 00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:28,400 Speaker 2: so in a way that's sustainable for our people, our operations, 553 00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:32,280 Speaker 2: how we're doing things, but at the same time being 554 00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:37,920 Speaker 2: able to manage that growth and execute on that growth 555 00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:41,240 Speaker 2: incredibly well. So it's about always looking ahead and where 556 00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:43,800 Speaker 2: we're going to be in twelve eighteen months and preparing 557 00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:46,680 Speaker 2: for that rather than preparing for where we are now. 558 00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:50,120 Speaker 1: Sure, Emma, thank you very much for being here, great 559 00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:53,160 Speaker 1: for having me, Thanks, thank you, thanks for listening to 560 00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:55,840 Speaker 1: this episode of Money Talks. If you want to get 561 00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:58,440 Speaker 1: in touch, drop me a line at Liam dot Dan 562 00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:02,320 Speaker 1: at enzed me dot co dot zid and you can 563 00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:05,360 Speaker 1: read more from me at inzidherld dot co dot zid. 564 00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:10,160 Speaker 1: Thanks to my producer Ethan Sills and sound engineer LeAnn McDonald. 565 00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:14,920 Speaker 1: Follow Money Talks on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts, 566 00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:17,400 Speaker 1: with new episodes available every Thursday.