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Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from news Talks EDB. Follow

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Speaker 1: this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: Yet inside the game from every angle.

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Speaker 2: It's Rugby Direct with Elliott Smith, powered by news Talks EDB.

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Speaker 3: Welcome into Rugby Direct powered by habit Health, tackling all

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Speaker 3: your aches and pains from sport and work. Get online

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Speaker 3: at habit dot health to get back in the game faster.

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Speaker 3: We are back in the game. We are back in

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Speaker 3: the people city of christ. Your joys a special treat

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Speaker 3: when we record Rugby Direct in the Garden City. And Liam,

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Speaker 3: I know you're excited to be here. I certainly am

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Speaker 3: because it's my hometown. But Liam, I know you've always

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Speaker 3: had a special affinity with the Garden City. So welcome

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Speaker 3: back and good to have you here.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, welcome home, Elliott. It is good to be here.

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Speaker 4: It almost didn't make it with the rain and the fog.

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Speaker 4: And I did notice something though, just wandering around town,

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Speaker 4: through the airports, around the shops. The kebinet just s

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Speaker 4: looking Bear.

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Speaker 3: That's all right, you know you can't win them all.

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Speaker 3: We'll get onto the super Rugby final bit later in

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Speaker 3: the podcast. The reason, of course that we are here?

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Speaker 3: Is the is the All Blacks squad announced last night

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Speaker 3: as it was as we record this thirty two man

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Speaker 3: squad and look awards a special occasion when the All

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Speaker 3: Black to name but leam perhaps a bit more special

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Speaker 3: this time, Gaven. We have a new coach, new management

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Speaker 3: and also there's always new players, but also a new captain.

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Speaker 3: It all felt very new, very fresh, and we've ended

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Speaker 3: with a thirty two man squad that I'm sure our

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Speaker 3: listeners have heard by now, but some surprises, some new faces.

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Speaker 3: So what was your initial top line reaction to the

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Speaker 3: All Black squad.

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Speaker 4: There's a lot of buzz and anticipation for this wasn't

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Speaker 4: there because of the new regime. What was Razor and

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Speaker 4: his assistant's going to bring, what was going to be different?

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Speaker 4: And to be honest that there's not a lot that

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Speaker 4: that is different. When you skim off the top layer

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Speaker 4: of five rookies. There is a high degree of continuity

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Speaker 4: coming back from last year's World Cup squad and a

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Speaker 4: core of experience. But we have a new All Blacks

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Speaker 4: captain that was widely predicted in Scott Barrett's and there

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Speaker 4: were a couple of big surprises, one in Hurricanes prop Tossi,

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Speaker 4: who I don't think anyone saw coming. And there is

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Speaker 4: always one bolter. It's just the way of an all

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Speaker 4: black squad. They have their time to assess, to sit

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Speaker 4: back and whether it's Dallas McLeod's this time last year

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Speaker 4: or Tossy this time around. So he was the big bolter.

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Speaker 4: And a number of fine line decisions that polarize opinions,

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Speaker 4: don't they from Hoskins stitut to missing out the hookers

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Speaker 4: first five fallback. So there's plenty to get stuck into.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, there is, indeed, First and foremost, let's touch on

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Speaker 3: the captaincy Scott Barrett, as you mentioned, not a surprise necessarily.

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Speaker 3: I know the drums beating for Ardie Savia, but this

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Speaker 3: wasn't a surprise to me that Scott Barrett has been

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Speaker 3: named captain. He's been Scott Robertson's captain at the Crusaders

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Speaker 3: for a number of seasons now since twenty twenty, won

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Speaker 3: a number of titles, so one Scott Robinson can trust.

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Speaker 3: And I think you know, we've also seen the Artie

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Speaker 3: Sava and Jordi Barrett have been implemented as vice captains.

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Speaker 3: But to me, I think the right decision. I think

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Speaker 3: tat the traits that Scott Robertson's pointed out around game

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Speaker 3: management and his ability, and there Scott Barrett has that

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Speaker 3: in spade, so I think that's the reason he's gone

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Speaker 3: with him. I know there's the Artie Savier camp, but

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Speaker 3: to be honest, not a huge surprise to me your

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Speaker 3: reaction to Scott Barrett being captain.

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Speaker 4: It's not a surprise Scott Barrett. As you say, They've

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Speaker 4: has that long standing relationship with Razor, four years, four

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Speaker 4: titles that they won together. But it is a big

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Speaker 4: step up for Scott from Super Rugby to the All Blacks.

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Speaker 4: He's played sixteen nine tests. He's never kept in the

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Speaker 4: All Blacks before, and he is aware of the enormity

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Speaker 4: of the role of the all encompassing responsibility, having played

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Speaker 4: under Sam Cain and lived through the depths of the

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Speaker 4: Ian Foster Sam Kaine regime and those coaching changes through

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Speaker 4: the struggles of mid twenty twenty two. He took a

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Speaker 4: couple of weeks to decide when Razor first asked him,

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Speaker 4: consulted Richie mccare and Karen Reid's to bounce ideas and

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Speaker 4: sort of understand the pressures and the expectations that he's

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Speaker 4: walking into, so it will be interesting to see how

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Speaker 4: he handles all of that. He's a quiet person. He's

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Speaker 4: somebody who leads from the front. He's a deep thinker.

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Speaker 4: He's not spontaneous, but he very much does lead through actions.

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Speaker 4: For me, I could have gone either way with the

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Speaker 4: captain c. I can see Ardie severe. He's a wild

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Speaker 4: player of the year. He's extremely popular in the All

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Speaker 4: Blacks environment. We had Dalton Popoali come out in support

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Speaker 4: of him, and I think that shows that there is

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Speaker 4: a lot of support for him within the All Blacks.

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Speaker 4: Aaron Smith was another guy spoke on the podcast glowingly

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Speaker 4: about Ardie's abilities and his emotional intellect. So I think

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Speaker 4: it is interesting as well that that Razer allowed Scott

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Speaker 4: to pick his vice captains. Artie not a surprise, but

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Speaker 4: Jordy twenty seven year old probably more of a surprise.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think definitely a surprise, like he's done done

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Speaker 3: it with the Hurricanes, and when you say you can

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Speaker 3: pick a vice captain, you probably usually go with one,

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Speaker 3: but he's gone with two and obviously his brother or

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Speaker 3: he trusts implicitly younger brother, younger brother as well. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: he must have seen something on there for Boden, that's right. Well,

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Speaker 3: I think you're a smart move as well, because he's

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Speaker 3: surrounded himself with people that he trusts. You know, Scott

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Speaker 3: Barrett probably hasn't played any provincial rugby or anything above

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Speaker 3: with Ardi, but he's worked alongside him the All Blacks

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Speaker 3: for a number of seasons down and knows them well.

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Speaker 3: Jordi obviously knows very very well as well. So I

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Speaker 3: think that's a good mix of leaders in that team.

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Speaker 3: It's a new era, you're stamping your fresh mark on

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Speaker 3: the team. I think all three pretty good selections that

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Speaker 3: are going to lead this team Forarder. I think it's

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Speaker 3: really fascinating to see how the workers are dynamic on

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Speaker 3: the field. Obviously Scott Barrett's going to make all the calls,

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Speaker 3: but how often he goes to Artie Savilla and asks

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Speaker 3: for his advice, whether that's an on field decision where

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Speaker 3: it's more off the field sort of thing that he does.

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Speaker 3: Same with Jordy. But I think you've stamped there, stamping

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Speaker 3: mark on the team with that new leadership group.

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Speaker 4: I think i'd make the case that Scott Barrett probably

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Speaker 4: has a harder job to start with than Sam Caine

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Speaker 4: did because if you look at the makeup of that

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Speaker 4: leadership group, you've lost Brady Rettallic, Sam White, Locke, Sam Kaine,

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Speaker 4: right now Aaron Smith. That's a huge amount of leadership

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Speaker 4: that's left the team. And if you think about the

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Speaker 4: leaders that Scott will have around him, it's Artie Severe,

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Speaker 4: Jordi Barrett, Boden, Barrett, Cody Taylor, Patrick Twopolotu. So there

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Speaker 4: is experience there, but not quite to the same degree.

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Speaker 4: So that will be a challenge for him to mold

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Speaker 4: that new leadership group, get what he needs from different people,

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Speaker 4: hand over different responsibilities at different times. He's also going

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Speaker 4: to have to work with referees. One big question around

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Speaker 4: Scott is his discipline. Yeah, two red cards previously. That's

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Speaker 4: going to be a major focus, isn't it.

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Speaker 3: It is And Scott Robertson was asked about that at

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Speaker 3: the media conference last night, and I don't know if

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Speaker 3: he'd say cagey or didn't want to give too much away,

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Speaker 3: but said that certainly had formed part of the conversations

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Speaker 3: with Scott Barrett and Scott Barrett as well, saying that

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Speaker 3: you know, it's part of the ing captains that you

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Speaker 3: do have to be on the park and I can't

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Speaker 3: get away with that. And so that's something that he's

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Speaker 3: going to have to have in the back of his

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Speaker 3: mind every time he tackles someone. He's got to be

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Speaker 3: one hundred percent on with his technique and everything like that.

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Speaker 3: And we've seen those margins are so fine. Now he

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Speaker 3: says he's got to get Laura and Laura and Laura

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Speaker 3: and that's what he's got to do to remain on

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Speaker 3: the park, is the All Blacks captain. That's the challenge

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Speaker 3: for him, but also for the majority of the team.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and it's about managing your emotions as well, because

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Speaker 4: Scott I think I think it was this quarter finals,

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Speaker 4: so the semi final against Argentina, what's that him? Maybe

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Speaker 4: I'm blacklisting him? Hit the ball down at the ruck

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Speaker 4: And there was also against the spring Box prior to

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Speaker 4: the World Cup he got two yellow cards. So it

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Speaker 4: wasn't just one instance. There are multiple incidents where he

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Speaker 4: hasn't kept his call in the heat of battle. So

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Speaker 4: as All Black captain, you've got to lead from the front.

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Speaker 4: You've got to be on the park as you say,

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Speaker 4: so that is going to be a big challenge.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Sometimes the leadership responsibility sort of makes a man

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Speaker 3: makes you you know, you go, actually, I'm captain. I've

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Speaker 3: can have a little bit of responsibility here, not just

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Speaker 3: one of the troops. So that might well be the

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Speaker 3: case with him. Let's dig into some of these selections

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Speaker 3: around the squad, work our way through some of the

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Speaker 3: new Caps as well. I suppose good place to start

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Speaker 3: as any as the props and the surprise selection of

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Speaker 3: Pasili or Tossi out of the Hurricanes and bay of

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Speaker 3: place number eight until twenty twenty switched to tight head

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Speaker 3: prop put on about fifteen twenty kgs he says, and lockdown.

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Speaker 3: We'll hear some of the interviewee bit later on the podcast.

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Speaker 3: But converted himself into a tight hair prop and has

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Speaker 3: been a very good player for the Hurricanes this year,

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Speaker 3: but certainly wouldn't have made many thirty two's around the

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Speaker 3: rugby clubs or pubs or whatever of New Zealanders they're

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Speaker 3: putting together their teams over the course of the weekend.

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Speaker 4: No a bolt from the blue, wasn't it. And I

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Speaker 4: guess when you think about this deeply, it's the all

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Speaker 4: Blacks needed another tight head prop because nipole La Lala

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Speaker 4: has departed offer doing a fuss. He has the ability

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Speaker 4: to play both sides to Mighty Williams to a degree

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Speaker 4: can play both sides, so they have flexibility within their ranks.

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Speaker 4: But they clearly wanted to bring through another tight head.

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Speaker 4: Tossi is twenty five years old. He's only been a

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Speaker 4: tight head prop for four years. He was converted in

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Speaker 4: SOUTHLM and he did that because he was basically told, look,

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Speaker 4: there's not too many one hundred and forty kg number

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Speaker 4: eights running around the games.

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Speaker 3: It's quite incredible, isn't it that that story to go right?

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Speaker 3: The okay need to switch to a different position and

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Speaker 3: then go from being an NPC footballer in one position

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Speaker 3: and number eight to converting yourself into a front rower

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Speaker 3: and playing like that. But a wonderful story and out

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Speaker 3: of the blue. I guess some players that were in

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Speaker 3: the mix, the likes of Marcel ridden at Asavia Numia

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Speaker 3: was in the mix as well for All Black selection

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Speaker 3: but not picked. And Numia potentially maybe an injury, but

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Speaker 3: you know, always a tight call in the props.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and I think they've gone with specialists on both

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Speaker 4: sides of the scrum to a degree and that's why

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Speaker 4: toss He's been selected. And also I spoke to Jason

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Speaker 4: Ryan about him and it was pretty classic to hear

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Speaker 4: Raisor Robinson say that Jason Rohan fell in love with him.

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Speaker 4: He talked about.

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Speaker 3: Married at First Sight, one of the first All Blacks

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Speaker 3: coach to reference Married at First Sight and media interview.

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Speaker 4: Clearly big mathsco but Jason Ryan said that Tossy is

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Speaker 4: the strongest prop in New Zealand. He said that he

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Speaker 4: can squat over three hundred kg and that he's got

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Speaker 4: a massive future and that he will learn a lot

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Speaker 4: scrummaging off Tyreel Lomax as he has all year. He

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Speaker 4: gave a big shout out to Jamie McIntosh at the

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Speaker 4: Hurricanes and the work that he's done to get him

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Speaker 4: up to speeds. I think it's fair to say at

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Speaker 4: this point Tossy is not at the level you would

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Speaker 4: want for a test scrummager and tight hair prop. You know,

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Speaker 4: the intricacies of propping are foreign to to most of us,

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Speaker 4: but tight hair prop is one of the most important

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Speaker 4: positions on the field. It is your anchor. You lock

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Speaker 4: down the scrum. I'd put it right up there with

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Speaker 4: the first five, and so getting him up to speed's important.

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Speaker 4: The All Blacks have Tyrol Lomax and Fletcher Newel, two

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Speaker 4: genuine world class tight head props, and they're hoping to

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Speaker 4: mold another one.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and it was interesting Tossi is saying that it

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Speaker 3: was only sort of last year that he felt like

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Speaker 3: he was able to scrummage properly. So I think the

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Speaker 3: phrase Jordi Barrett Hues when I spoke to him was

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Speaker 3: incredibly high ceiling. So he's got the raw talent. Now

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Speaker 3: it's time for Jace Ryan to work with them, but

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Speaker 3: also to Rol Lomax and there's All Black teammates to

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Speaker 3: work with him and get him to where he needs

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Speaker 3: to be. In terms of the All Blacks, it was a.

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Speaker 4: Couple of things. When you look at the makeup of

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Speaker 4: those All Black props and Tossy being a former number eights,

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Speaker 4: they all have their ability to ball play, to have

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Speaker 4: quick feet at the line, to be mobile, and that's

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Speaker 4: what you need as well as being great scrummages. Ethan

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Speaker 4: de Groetz come on a lot in that regard. The

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Speaker 4: other thing about them is they're all massive units. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: they are huge humans. Offer toing, I Fuss is one

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Speaker 4: of the smaller props. You know, let that sink in

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Speaker 4: from and these are big humans and they will compete

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Speaker 4: on a size like for light basis with the Box

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Speaker 4: and the English. So they clearly want size and they

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Speaker 4: want skill and mobility from their props. And that's Tossy

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Speaker 4: does fit that mold.

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Speaker 3: It does. Indeed, let's continue to move our way up

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Speaker 3: the team and the hook is selected there now I

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Speaker 3: think two of them out of three week could have

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Speaker 3: both picked Tolfer sorry Cody Taylor and I suffer on

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Speaker 3: mooor the third one George Bell out of the Crusaders,

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Speaker 3: one of the five new faces in the squad. Of

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Speaker 3: the un capped players first and foremost, I think fair

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Speaker 3: to say Samasonic Takeyahoa is fit. George Bell is not there.

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Speaker 3: The three fit pretty clear. As it happens, they do

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Speaker 3: need a third player to play hooker in this team,

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Speaker 3: and with Samosoni Art there was a decision to be

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Speaker 3: made there for Scott Robertson and Deal Black's coaches selectors.

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Speaker 3: Ricky Rica Telli form player probably for the Blues as

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Speaker 3: they closed the season. One of the form players. He's

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Speaker 3: been very, very good. But George Bell is in there

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Speaker 3: with an eye to the future. Twenty two years of age,

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Speaker 3: and Scott Robertson said as much when he was asked

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Speaker 3: about it. It's an eye to the future. They really

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Speaker 3: really rate him. I don't think George Bell had a

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Speaker 3: great Super Rugby season with the Crusaders. Some of his

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Speaker 3: line out throwing was errant. He's a good ball player,

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Speaker 3: but I think if you're going on the form call

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Speaker 3: Ricky Ricottelli deserved to be there. But they've gone with

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Speaker 3: the long term vision because they've had this spot open

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Speaker 3: up through Samasoni Dokey I was injury and they've gone, well,

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Speaker 3: it's a better to give a third spot to a

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Speaker 3: player that is they're going to be there in the future,

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Speaker 3: or maybe someone who's a bit older. They've gone with

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Speaker 3: the future.

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Speaker 4: I'm going to read your tweet here from Simon raul

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Speaker 4: Looni from a Fiji coach is always good for a

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Speaker 4: hot take. Bell was a great player and open player,

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Speaker 4: but couldn't hurt an elephant's ass with a handful of eminem's.

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Speaker 4: Ricky Ricttelli has to be dirty.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well that's on the throw coach of the All Blacks.

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Speaker 3: Isn't it Corey Flynn to get him up to speed

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Speaker 3: and get him there? They're clearly similar to Tossy see him?

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Speaker 3: Is that the raw product that they can get up

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Speaker 3: to international caliber? Now you look at the first two tests,

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Speaker 3: unlikely that Bell or Tossi for that matter, is going

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Speaker 3: to play against England Fiji maybe where both of them

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Speaker 3: could potentially debut if they're up to speed by then,

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Speaker 3: but they're not going to get much game time. And

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Speaker 3: I guess if you're airing on that side, you go

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Speaker 3: with the guy that might be there in two or

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Speaker 3: three years time rather than the guy that you don't

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Speaker 3: know about and maybe isn't going to crack that top

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Speaker 3: three in the years to come.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, look, I think if you're poking on form and

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Speaker 4: for the now, it's a non selection, non choice. Rickittelli

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Speaker 4: has been outstanding for a dominant Blues pack, low center

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Speaker 4: of gravity, great and the clean out. The Blues lineup

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Speaker 4: was the best in the comp this year. The Crusaders

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Speaker 4: was the third worst and George Bell did not have

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Speaker 4: a good season. So you look at it on that

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Speaker 4: basis and you say, look, this has been viewed through

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Speaker 4: red and black tinted glasses, not only with Razor, but

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Speaker 4: Jason Ryan, who knows George Berll well. From a development

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Speaker 4: point of view and the age dynamic that you've mentioned,

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Speaker 4: you can understand bringing George Belle wanting to develop him

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Speaker 4: for the future and they believe he's a real athlete

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Speaker 4: and has a lot of potential. But look, I feel

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Speaker 4: for Rickettelly because on mirror on form he one hundred

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Speaker 4: percent deserves to be there.

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Speaker 3: He does, and that's a tough one for Ricky Rickttelly

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Speaker 3: not to be in the mix. He was in training squad.

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Speaker 3: I'm thinking about six seven years ago. He got in

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Speaker 3: the mix to cover some injuries. That was as close

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Speaker 3: as he's got and this time doesn't make the thirty two.

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Speaker 3: Let's continue moving. And this is one of the other surprises,

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Speaker 3: not so much in personnel, but the lack of personnel

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Speaker 3: and lock that they've only taken three now. When we

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Speaker 3: put together our squads last week, we had four locks.

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Speaker 3: Every squad that I've seen on Sky and various other

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Speaker 3: picks has had four locks. The all Blacks have gone

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Speaker 3: with three, which don't think many expected they would do. Yes,

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Speaker 3: Sama Penni Feina can cover lock. But this is a

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Speaker 3: huge risk to take only three locks in your squad

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Speaker 3: of thirty two.

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Speaker 4: It's a massive risk, particularly when one of them and

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Speaker 4: Patrick two Polot who's carrying a knee injury.

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Speaker 3: Scott Barret's had a back injury.

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Speaker 4: That's right, and Scott said he was fifty fifty to

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Speaker 4: play Club rugby last weekend declared for the first test.

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Speaker 4: But yeah, there are injury clouds hanging over your two

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Speaker 4: of your three established locks. In terms of the balance

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Speaker 4: of the squads, I always felt that if they went

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Speaker 4: six props that have to lose a loose forward or

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Speaker 4: a lock, I thought it might be a loose forward. Yes,

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00:17:28,693 --> 00:17:31,733
Speaker 4: some of Penny Female gives you a degree of flexibility there,

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Speaker 4: and they have brought in Sam Derry, one of four

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Speaker 4: injury cover guys for Patrick two Polo two. But it's

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Speaker 4: a massive risk and it speaks to the thread beer

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Speaker 4: nature of the depth in New Zealand rugby locks. And

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Speaker 4: we went through six or seven different candidates and none

344
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Speaker 4: of them were really compelling to step into the breach

345
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Speaker 4: that's been left by Sam Whitelock and Brody Rettallic and

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Speaker 4: clearly the All Blacks have felt that way as well,

347
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Speaker 4: because they've only gone with three of them. I think

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Speaker 4: the other aspect of this is Josh Lord will make

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Speaker 4: his comeback bare He played for the Chiefs this year

350
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Speaker 4: with Tartanuki in their preseason. He's the guy that they

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Speaker 4: will fast track. He's stepped up to the international level.

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Speaker 4: I think he's the clear fourth choice lock. But for now,

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Speaker 4: let's say Patrick two Poloto is injured in the first

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Speaker 4: couple of minutes against England, then you're left with two

355
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Speaker 4: established locks. It is a risk, it.

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Speaker 3: Is a huge risk. I think from the All Blacks,

357
00:18:31,293 --> 00:18:32,813
Speaker 3: Sam Dowry is going to be in there is cover

358
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Speaker 3: for both of those injured players and may well get

359
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Speaker 3: a call up at some point in there. But I

360
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Speaker 3: think potentially if they were at home so I weren't

361
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Speaker 3: at home, they wouldn't have taken this risk. But the

362
00:18:45,413 --> 00:18:47,733
Speaker 3: fact that they can get well Darry's going to be

363
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Speaker 3: covering with them in squad, but they can fly in

364
00:18:50,213 --> 00:18:54,533
Speaker 3: players pretty quickly into camp allows them to make a

365
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Speaker 3: decision that they wouldn't have made and they wouldn't have

366
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Speaker 3: probably sleeped at thirty two if they're going abroad anyway,

367
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Speaker 3: but made a decision that they can bring in someone

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Speaker 3: at short notice if required.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I think it's a big It's a flashing red light,

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Speaker 4: isn't it. If there's one person in New Zealand rugby

371
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Speaker 4: that you're concerned about right now, it's lock and selecting

372
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Speaker 4: three of them just highlights that even more.

373
00:19:15,093 --> 00:19:15,533
Speaker 5: Yeah, it does.

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Speaker 3: And look, there's players on the horizon. As we've mentioned

375
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Speaker 3: on this podcast before, Fabian holand eligible late late part

376
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Speaker 3: of next year. Jamie Hannah looks like a real up

377
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Speaker 3: and comer, but they're not ready yet. And this is

378
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Speaker 3: twenty twenty four and at the moment there's three locks

379
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Speaker 3: in an All Black squad and that speaks to the

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Speaker 3: thread being nature of things, isn't it, doesn't it?

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Speaker 6: Yeah?

382
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Speaker 4: And it's a big year. The All Blacks play fifteen

383
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Speaker 4: tests this year, a lot of them away from home,

384
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Speaker 4: and they're going to need more than three locks, So

385
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Speaker 4: it's going to be really interesting to see where they

386
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Speaker 4: turn and how affected that position is because it is

387
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Speaker 4: very attritional and Scott Barrett will play a lot of

388
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Speaker 4: rugby as captain, but the other two are going to

389
00:19:57,053 --> 00:20:00,653
Speaker 4: need to be rotated, so it's going to be fascinating

390
00:20:00,693 --> 00:20:02,093
Speaker 4: to see how that position plays out.

391
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Speaker 3: Let's get into the loose forwards. They've selected six of them,

392
00:20:05,413 --> 00:20:06,813
Speaker 3: so that was always going to be the balance as

393
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Speaker 3: to how many they took in. So I had a

394
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Speaker 3: female Jacobson, papala Via and Satiti getting the nod there.

395
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Speaker 3: I guess we went through it last week and we're

396
00:20:16,733 --> 00:20:20,453
Speaker 3: trying to match, you know, who can cover what position there.

397
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Speaker 3: But the one that stands out obviously is Wallace Atiti

398
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Speaker 3: being named over Hoskins Stutu sa Titi having a great

399
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Speaker 3: finish to the season. I thought it was I thought

400
00:20:29,093 --> 00:20:30,973
Speaker 3: it was probably the Chief's best in the final, even

401
00:20:31,013 --> 00:20:32,613
Speaker 3: though they didn't get a lot of ball. We'll get

402
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Speaker 3: into the final little bit later on. Obviously Superb and

403
00:20:34,693 --> 00:20:37,453
Speaker 3: the Hurricanes and they've weighted up and gone we're taking

404
00:20:37,493 --> 00:20:39,293
Speaker 3: the promising player in Satiti.

405
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Speaker 4: Yeah. It's fascinating, isn't it? And it's certainly the lightning

406
00:20:43,813 --> 00:20:52,413
Speaker 4: rod that sparked debate, discussion around pub laners and social media.

407
00:20:52,893 --> 00:20:56,653
Speaker 4: Hoskin Stitutu scored twelve trials for the Blues this year.

408
00:20:56,733 --> 00:21:00,013
Speaker 4: He played a lot of minutes, He carried for a

409
00:21:00,013 --> 00:21:02,893
Speaker 4: lot of meters. I think he set up another eight tries.

410
00:21:03,013 --> 00:21:05,893
Speaker 4: So when he had the ball in his hands. He

411
00:21:06,053 --> 00:21:10,813
Speaker 4: was hugely influential for an extremely dominant Blues pack. Hoss

412
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Speaker 4: Wallace Tatiti came on a little bit later in the year,

413
00:21:15,613 --> 00:21:20,253
Speaker 4: but there's one performance from him that earned him selection

414
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Speaker 4: and that's the semi final against the Hurricanes, and Jason

415
00:21:22,453 --> 00:21:26,413
Speaker 4: Rhand said that to me as plain and simple, that

416
00:21:26,773 --> 00:21:31,253
Speaker 4: performance in a semi final turned heads, and it turned

417
00:21:31,293 --> 00:21:34,053
Speaker 4: everyone's heads and it turned the All Blacks heads as well.

418
00:21:34,173 --> 00:21:36,653
Speaker 4: Now you've got a feel for Hoskins to Tuto because

419
00:21:37,453 --> 00:21:39,373
Speaker 4: he's got to sit back and think I couldn't be

420
00:21:39,413 --> 00:21:42,533
Speaker 4: doing anything more right now. He was cast asides in

421
00:21:42,653 --> 00:21:44,733
Speaker 4: late twenty twenty two, not only from the All Blacks,

422
00:21:44,773 --> 00:21:47,133
Speaker 4: but the All Blacks fifteen came into this year with

423
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Speaker 4: a massive chip on her shoulder and played like it.

424
00:21:50,213 --> 00:21:53,333
Speaker 4: I think there was a couple of talent comments in

425
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Speaker 4: the announcement last night. It was on both sides of

426
00:21:56,533 --> 00:21:58,933
Speaker 4: the ball that the All Blacks want their loose forwards

427
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Speaker 4: to make an impact and speaking to it a couple

428
00:22:01,933 --> 00:22:05,333
Speaker 4: of the coaches off the record last night. Another aspect

429
00:22:05,453 --> 00:22:08,373
Speaker 4: is what you do away from the ball and this

430
00:22:08,533 --> 00:22:13,333
Speaker 4: is something that the Queensland Maroons. Billy Slater values very

431
00:22:13,413 --> 00:22:15,933
Speaker 4: highly and it's something that Raised Robinson values very highly.

432
00:22:16,253 --> 00:22:18,813
Speaker 4: And I think it's been a feedback for Hoskins throughout

433
00:22:18,853 --> 00:22:21,613
Speaker 4: the year because Jason Ryan's been into the Blues and

434
00:22:21,933 --> 00:22:24,893
Speaker 4: with vern and that's one aspect of his game where

435
00:22:25,253 --> 00:22:27,493
Speaker 4: the All Blacks feel like when he's on the ball,

436
00:22:27,533 --> 00:22:32,133
Speaker 4: he's on and otherwise he can drift and not be involved.

437
00:22:32,213 --> 00:22:37,213
Speaker 4: So hugely polarizing selection, isn't it. Do you think they

438
00:22:37,293 --> 00:22:37,773
Speaker 4: got it right?

439
00:22:39,453 --> 00:22:42,733
Speaker 3: I probably don't. I think I would have kept Satisi

440
00:22:42,813 --> 00:22:44,973
Speaker 3: just a nice a little bit more and allowed him

441
00:22:44,973 --> 00:22:47,533
Speaker 3: to have a bit more of an NBC campaign and

442
00:22:47,773 --> 00:22:51,893
Speaker 3: picked Satusu and rewarded him for the season because he

443
00:22:51,933 --> 00:22:55,533
Speaker 3: has played well. And trust yourself to bring those standards

444
00:22:55,693 --> 00:22:58,533
Speaker 3: up to where they need to be in All Blacks camp.

445
00:22:58,573 --> 00:23:01,373
Speaker 3: And we've seen, you know, with Tossy and George Bell

446
00:23:01,493 --> 00:23:04,213
Speaker 3: that those players aren't the finished product. Well has Intituta. Yes,

447
00:23:04,293 --> 00:23:05,693
Speaker 3: he's been the All Blacks before, but if you want

448
00:23:05,693 --> 00:23:09,013
Speaker 3: to see that from him, surely he's shown you on

449
00:23:09,093 --> 00:23:11,213
Speaker 3: that side of the ball where he can do a

450
00:23:11,213 --> 00:23:12,813
Speaker 3: ball in hand. We'll get him up to speed with

451
00:23:12,813 --> 00:23:14,333
Speaker 3: what he's doing off the ball and what he's doing

452
00:23:14,693 --> 00:23:17,413
Speaker 3: in those moments that he maybe is a little bit idle.

453
00:23:17,453 --> 00:23:19,173
Speaker 3: That's what I think. You've got to back yourself as

454
00:23:19,173 --> 00:23:21,773
Speaker 3: coaches to get the best out of him. I don't

455
00:23:21,773 --> 00:23:23,333
Speaker 3: mind what the tea being slick at all. I think

456
00:23:23,333 --> 00:23:27,213
Speaker 3: he's an immense prospect for the All Blacks over the

457
00:23:27,253 --> 00:23:29,853
Speaker 3: coming years. But I think if you're Hoskins a Tutu,

458
00:23:30,573 --> 00:23:32,933
Speaker 3: you're probably feeling a bit hard done by and looking

459
00:23:32,973 --> 00:23:35,253
Speaker 3: at perhaps on a social media posts, he does feel

460
00:23:35,253 --> 00:23:37,733
Speaker 3: a little bit hard done by by missing out. But

461
00:23:38,333 --> 00:23:41,333
Speaker 3: there's two ways this can go with Hostintituji and similar

462
00:23:41,373 --> 00:23:44,693
Speaker 3: to last year, we saw him absolutely rise back with

463
00:23:44,733 --> 00:23:46,893
Speaker 3: the Blues this year and have have a great season

464
00:23:46,973 --> 00:23:49,413
Speaker 3: and put himself back in the conversation. It can now

465
00:23:49,413 --> 00:23:51,613
Speaker 3: go one of two ways. He can continue to work

466
00:23:51,653 --> 00:23:53,573
Speaker 3: at it and fix those things that the All Blacks

467
00:23:53,573 --> 00:23:55,173
Speaker 3: want to see and get there in time for the

468
00:23:55,253 --> 00:23:57,973
Speaker 3: Rugby Championship if there is time or injuries or whatever

469
00:23:58,053 --> 00:24:00,133
Speaker 3: all the end of year tour, or he can drop

470
00:24:00,133 --> 00:24:02,693
Speaker 3: his lip and he can go back of this. I'm

471
00:24:02,693 --> 00:24:04,453
Speaker 3: going to go map. Is Solf eligible for Fiji in

472
00:24:04,453 --> 00:24:06,693
Speaker 3: twelve months or eighteen months time, whatever it is, or England,

473
00:24:06,813 --> 00:24:11,493
Speaker 3: which is also eligible for So that's in Hoskins court.

474
00:24:11,853 --> 00:24:13,413
Speaker 3: It's going to be interesting to see what happens. But

475
00:24:14,893 --> 00:24:17,453
Speaker 3: you know, I think there's an element there that you've

476
00:24:17,453 --> 00:24:19,013
Speaker 3: got to back yourself as all about coaches to bring

477
00:24:19,093 --> 00:24:19,773
Speaker 3: him up to standard.

478
00:24:20,693 --> 00:24:24,133
Speaker 4: Yeah, Look, if I was Hoskins, I would be looking

479
00:24:24,133 --> 00:24:27,133
Speaker 4: off shore right now. I think there's been a pretty

480
00:24:27,133 --> 00:24:31,773
Speaker 4: clear directive that he's not in favor here, and you know,

481
00:24:31,893 --> 00:24:35,573
Speaker 4: Ford's coach Jason Ryan was there last year and he's

482
00:24:35,613 --> 00:24:38,093
Speaker 4: going to be there for the next four years. Clearly

483
00:24:38,173 --> 00:24:40,973
Speaker 4: others are preferred, and it's not just who's in this

484
00:24:41,013 --> 00:24:44,573
Speaker 4: All Black squad as well. There's depth elsewhere with Bradon

485
00:24:44,653 --> 00:24:49,493
Speaker 4: Yosse and Peter Luckey, who is actually in the All

486
00:24:49,493 --> 00:24:52,693
Speaker 4: Black squad is an emerging player, but the depth at

487
00:24:52,733 --> 00:24:56,853
Speaker 4: Loose Ford, in the loose forwards is incredible. So I

488
00:24:56,893 --> 00:24:58,773
Speaker 4: think if I were him, I would be looking off

489
00:24:58,773 --> 00:25:02,173
Speaker 4: shore because it is that opinion of him going to change.

490
00:25:02,173 --> 00:25:06,053
Speaker 4: What more can he do? Really? I think from an

491
00:25:06,093 --> 00:25:10,053
Speaker 4: international eligibility perspective, it's five years, isn't it three now?

492
00:25:10,533 --> 00:25:12,933
Speaker 3: Three now with so into twenty twenty two is his

493
00:25:12,973 --> 00:25:14,893
Speaker 3: last All Blacks tests so he could be eligible into

494
00:25:14,893 --> 00:25:17,893
Speaker 3: twenty twenty five with the he's got English, links, got

495
00:25:17,893 --> 00:25:21,133
Speaker 3: Fiji and links could play there into twenty twenty five.

496
00:25:21,453 --> 00:25:24,053
Speaker 4: Yeah, so target the next World Cup, go and earn

497
00:25:24,093 --> 00:25:27,613
Speaker 4: some yen. You know, I could completely understand that rationale

498
00:25:27,853 --> 00:25:30,133
Speaker 4: or he digs in for a year, tries to change

499
00:25:30,213 --> 00:25:34,893
Speaker 4: an opinion. But I'm gonna throw something else at you here.

500
00:25:34,973 --> 00:25:38,333
Speaker 4: So Wallac the TT Hoskins, the two two head to

501
00:25:38,373 --> 00:25:41,933
Speaker 4: head raises like that's our most difficult selection. I know

502
00:25:42,533 --> 00:25:47,173
Speaker 4: that you're not a massive fan of Luke Jacobson, and

503
00:25:47,773 --> 00:25:51,373
Speaker 4: you know, would you have selected him and Hoskins two.

504
00:25:51,853 --> 00:25:53,773
Speaker 4: There's there's so many different ways you can skin the

505
00:25:53,773 --> 00:25:57,093
Speaker 4: balance of this loose forward mix. When you talk about versatility,

506
00:25:57,253 --> 00:26:00,573
Speaker 4: which is another thing that hurt Hoskins because Wallac TT

507
00:26:00,773 --> 00:26:03,413
Speaker 4: is a guy that they view can play all three positions.

508
00:26:03,453 --> 00:26:05,813
Speaker 3: Well to start with that, I think what we've seeing

509
00:26:05,853 --> 00:26:07,653
Speaker 3: there is that clearly Artie is still going to play

510
00:26:07,653 --> 00:26:09,613
Speaker 3: eight for the your black correct there. There's not going

511
00:26:09,693 --> 00:26:10,853
Speaker 3: to be no change there. There's been a bit of

512
00:26:10,893 --> 00:26:14,013
Speaker 3: chatbat movie I've inside from what the squad they've selected.

513
00:26:14,413 --> 00:26:16,693
Speaker 3: He's going to play eight and the wall of tit

514
00:26:16,893 --> 00:26:19,893
Speaker 3: is the backup number eight. So that's where the squeeze

515
00:26:19,893 --> 00:26:22,693
Speaker 3: came on Hoskins. Is that do they go with a

516
00:26:22,693 --> 00:26:24,493
Speaker 3: player that's probably not going to get much game time

517
00:26:24,773 --> 00:26:27,373
Speaker 3: but is a long term project for the All Blacks

518
00:26:27,373 --> 00:26:30,933
Speaker 3: they've added up Hoskins or Walla Wallace wins out in

519
00:26:30,973 --> 00:26:35,773
Speaker 3: that regard. Luke Jacobson I think has had a number

520
00:26:35,773 --> 00:26:38,013
Speaker 3: of cracks at Test level, but I would struggle to

521
00:26:38,013 --> 00:26:41,253
Speaker 3: think of a Test match where he's absolutely gone. This

522
00:26:41,453 --> 00:26:43,093
Speaker 3: is a Test match where I've staked my claim from

523
00:26:43,093 --> 00:26:44,893
Speaker 3: All Blacks Jersey. I'm not going to let it go.

524
00:26:45,293 --> 00:26:47,933
Speaker 3: He's been around for a number of seasons now. Yes

525
00:26:47,973 --> 00:26:49,813
Speaker 3: he's had a few injuries here and there which have

526
00:26:50,293 --> 00:26:51,973
Speaker 3: obviously set him back, but he's been around the All

527
00:26:51,973 --> 00:26:54,293
Speaker 3: Blacks camp for a number of years now and I

528
00:26:54,293 --> 00:26:56,333
Speaker 3: don't think has put his hand up completely to go

529
00:26:56,533 --> 00:26:58,733
Speaker 3: I'm here. But what he does do is cover a

530
00:26:58,773 --> 00:27:00,973
Speaker 3: number of positions and that's fairly Walks, So too does

531
00:27:00,973 --> 00:27:02,973
Speaker 3: Ethan Blackat and the All Blacks Max.

532
00:27:03,053 --> 00:27:05,453
Speaker 4: We know that who you could argue is fortunate to

533
00:27:05,453 --> 00:27:07,893
Speaker 4: be there. Bais of the this.

534
00:27:07,853 --> 00:27:10,253
Speaker 3: Year and look he could have been squeezed out and

535
00:27:10,293 --> 00:27:12,973
Speaker 3: as I was putting together a squad yesterday with my

536
00:27:13,293 --> 00:27:15,773
Speaker 3: old man, made a few tweaks to what we selected

537
00:27:15,813 --> 00:27:18,693
Speaker 3: last week, and I actually squeezed Ethan out A sorry, yeah,

538
00:27:18,773 --> 00:27:20,573
Speaker 3: squed Ethan out of the mix because I thought he

539
00:27:20,613 --> 00:27:21,973
Speaker 3: hasn't played a lot of rug be the best thing

540
00:27:22,013 --> 00:27:23,573
Speaker 3: is to get some rugby under his belt. But he's

541
00:27:23,573 --> 00:27:27,693
Speaker 3: a known quantity to these all Black selectors. So I

542
00:27:27,693 --> 00:27:30,453
Speaker 3: think the heat's really on Ethan Blackaded and Luke Jacobson

543
00:27:30,933 --> 00:27:33,253
Speaker 3: in the loose Ford trio when we go forward here,

544
00:27:33,293 --> 00:27:37,973
Speaker 3: because Ethan's had his injury issues and Luke, to be fair,

545
00:27:37,973 --> 00:27:39,813
Speaker 3: I don't think has taken his chances in the All Blacks.

546
00:27:39,853 --> 00:27:43,013
Speaker 3: So there's clearly they've seen plenty from them. They liked

547
00:27:43,053 --> 00:27:44,693
Speaker 3: those players. But I still think there's a bit of

548
00:27:45,733 --> 00:27:48,093
Speaker 3: work the too need to do at test level.

549
00:27:48,733 --> 00:27:51,853
Speaker 4: We'll have another pod before the first Test, but right

550
00:27:51,893 --> 00:27:54,653
Speaker 4: now I believe the all black starting loose Ford trio

551
00:27:54,693 --> 00:27:57,053
Speaker 4: for England will be Ardi at eight, Dalton at seven

552
00:27:57,293 --> 00:27:58,613
Speaker 4: and Ethan Blackheader at six.

553
00:27:58,813 --> 00:28:00,333
Speaker 3: I don't disagree. I think it will be.

554
00:28:00,333 --> 00:28:02,373
Speaker 4: Summer Penny Female at sex is the only.

555
00:28:02,853 --> 00:28:05,733
Speaker 3: Possible option, but I think they may want to use

556
00:28:05,813 --> 00:28:08,213
Speaker 3: him off the bench and have double lock cover patent,

557
00:28:10,253 --> 00:28:12,533
Speaker 3: or have the ability to change things up mid test.

558
00:28:12,613 --> 00:28:14,773
Speaker 3: So I think the way things are selected at the moment,

559
00:28:14,813 --> 00:28:17,693
Speaker 3: I think female off the bench alongside perhaps two per

560
00:28:17,773 --> 00:28:20,013
Speaker 3: I would be the likely mixed for that first test.

561
00:28:20,133 --> 00:28:22,613
Speaker 4: And that speaks to how highly the All Blacks regard

562
00:28:22,733 --> 00:28:25,373
Speaker 4: ethan blacket. It doesn't it because he has played bargaroll

563
00:28:25,453 --> 00:28:25,773
Speaker 4: this year.

564
00:28:25,893 --> 00:28:27,973
Speaker 3: He has played buggarull. He is indeed, all right, let's

565
00:28:27,973 --> 00:28:28,853
Speaker 3: get into the halfbacks.

566
00:28:29,573 --> 00:28:29,813
Speaker 2: T J.

567
00:28:29,933 --> 00:28:34,453
Speaker 3: Pettinara, Cortez Ratima included in Finlay Christie the three that

568
00:28:34,533 --> 00:28:37,493
Speaker 3: they've named No surprises really there. That was essentially what

569
00:28:37,613 --> 00:28:40,933
Speaker 3: everyone thought was going to happen, and indeed they have.

570
00:28:41,533 --> 00:28:43,533
Speaker 3: You'll read on the half backs. You know, a great

571
00:28:43,533 --> 00:28:46,413
Speaker 3: story for TJ. Pedanara, been through the wars the last

572
00:28:46,493 --> 00:28:49,533
Speaker 3: couple of years, wasn't selected in twenty twenty two until

573
00:28:49,613 --> 00:28:51,333
Speaker 3: right at the very end, then goes and does his

574
00:28:51,413 --> 00:28:54,053
Speaker 3: achilles at ticking him misses all of twenty twenty three,

575
00:28:54,173 --> 00:28:55,573
Speaker 3: can't get back in time for the World Cup. We'll

576
00:28:55,573 --> 00:28:57,533
Speaker 3: put himself in the frame for the World Cup. But

577
00:28:58,133 --> 00:28:59,893
Speaker 3: you know that's a redemption story for TJ.

578
00:29:00,453 --> 00:29:04,213
Speaker 4: It is and he spoke with Kimberly downs on Sky

579
00:29:04,293 --> 00:29:07,693
Speaker 4: about the fact that because it wasn't just one chilly surgio,

580
00:29:07,693 --> 00:29:09,693
Speaker 4: it was two and he's out of the game for

581
00:29:09,853 --> 00:29:12,333
Speaker 4: eighteen months, and he talked about the fact that he

582
00:29:12,853 --> 00:29:15,293
Speaker 4: may not play rugby again, that he had that thought

583
00:29:15,413 --> 00:29:17,973
Speaker 4: when he had a second rchilly surgery things went progressing.

584
00:29:18,493 --> 00:29:20,813
Speaker 4: So what a comeback story. And it does speak to

585
00:29:20,933 --> 00:29:25,093
Speaker 4: fate to a degree because cam Royguard isn't injured for

586
00:29:25,213 --> 00:29:28,013
Speaker 4: the until you know, the back end of this year.

587
00:29:28,133 --> 00:29:31,933
Speaker 4: Then TJ doesn't have the whole season starting for the Hurricanes,

588
00:29:31,973 --> 00:29:34,533
Speaker 4: and maybe he doesn't make the All Blacks because he

589
00:29:34,573 --> 00:29:37,733
Speaker 4: doesn't have that time to impress. So there's a bit

590
00:29:37,813 --> 00:29:40,653
Speaker 4: of divine intervention to a degree. But a great story

591
00:29:40,813 --> 00:29:46,373
Speaker 4: for a great servant, a great human. But no surprises.

592
00:29:46,453 --> 00:29:48,733
Speaker 4: Not Hotham was the guy that has been knocking on

593
00:29:48,893 --> 00:29:51,253
Speaker 4: the door. I think he's got a big future, but

594
00:29:51,333 --> 00:29:54,213
Speaker 4: he's still a young guy and his time will come.

595
00:29:54,493 --> 00:29:56,893
Speaker 3: Some bizarre things as well that not Hotham not in

596
00:29:56,933 --> 00:29:58,733
Speaker 3: the multi All Black squad that'll be out by the

597
00:29:58,813 --> 00:30:02,813
Speaker 3: time this podcast lands. Not sure if he's injured, but

598
00:30:03,093 --> 00:30:06,013
Speaker 3: he's missed the cut. There with Sam Knock and Titoy

599
00:30:07,373 --> 00:30:09,773
Speaker 3: making the cut there. Sure if he's unavailable for personal

600
00:30:09,773 --> 00:30:12,053
Speaker 3: reasons or whatever it is. But yeah, it was quite

601
00:30:12,053 --> 00:30:14,253
Speaker 3: odd not see No Hopme's name listed in that multiple

602
00:30:14,253 --> 00:30:14,733
Speaker 3: Black squad.

603
00:30:15,093 --> 00:30:17,693
Speaker 4: Yeah, very strange. Maybe they're holding them back for the

604
00:30:18,053 --> 00:30:19,693
Speaker 4: All Blacks fifteen later in the air.

605
00:30:19,613 --> 00:30:22,893
Speaker 3: Could be, could be let's get into the tens. No surprises,

606
00:30:22,933 --> 00:30:25,893
Speaker 3: he actually no, there is a slight surprise. Boden Barrett

607
00:30:25,893 --> 00:30:27,933
Speaker 3: and dam mckinzi are listed as the first five eights.

608
00:30:28,693 --> 00:30:30,533
Speaker 3: We'll get to sehim. Peter Feeder shortly, but he is

609
00:30:30,573 --> 00:30:32,933
Speaker 3: not listed in the first five eights. He's played fullback

610
00:30:32,973 --> 00:30:35,933
Speaker 3: for the Blues majority of the season, but just a

611
00:30:35,973 --> 00:30:38,053
Speaker 3: little week. Interesting thing in terms of how the All

612
00:30:38,053 --> 00:30:39,853
Speaker 3: Blacks have laid out the squad is that Petter Fetter

613
00:30:39,973 --> 00:30:42,613
Speaker 3: is listed in the outside backs rather than the first fives.

614
00:30:43,413 --> 00:30:44,773
Speaker 4: Well, let me put this to you. Do you have

615
00:30:44,933 --> 00:30:48,093
Speaker 4: to be a first five to play fullback for the

616
00:30:48,133 --> 00:30:48,533
Speaker 4: All Blacks?

617
00:30:48,573 --> 00:30:48,653
Speaker 2: Now?

618
00:30:48,693 --> 00:30:52,053
Speaker 3: It does seem like a prerequisite. When Richid Wong is gone,

619
00:30:52,693 --> 00:30:56,893
Speaker 3: he's the last ten specialist ten. It seems like it

620
00:30:57,053 --> 00:31:00,693
Speaker 3: is a pre requisite the way they play, or maybe

621
00:31:00,693 --> 00:31:06,413
Speaker 3: it's just the way that New Zealand teams like to play. Yeah,

622
00:31:06,493 --> 00:31:08,333
Speaker 3: I'm still a fan of having an out and out

623
00:31:08,453 --> 00:31:10,533
Speaker 3: specialist ten if he possibly can.

624
00:31:11,093 --> 00:31:12,533
Speaker 4: Yeah, it works the other way as well. Do you

625
00:31:12,613 --> 00:31:15,013
Speaker 4: have to be a ten to play fifteen? Look, the

626
00:31:15,093 --> 00:31:18,053
Speaker 4: positions are similar in terms of what the All Blacks

627
00:31:18,093 --> 00:31:21,013
Speaker 4: want from them. They want dual playmakers. They want the

628
00:31:21,133 --> 00:31:24,493
Speaker 4: ability to read the game, to chime into the line,

629
00:31:24,613 --> 00:31:28,813
Speaker 4: to alleviate the decision making on one person, to be

630
00:31:28,973 --> 00:31:33,173
Speaker 4: that backdoor receiver, and to plug the corners, and all

631
00:31:33,253 --> 00:31:36,933
Speaker 4: those sorts of elements are shared between fullback and first five.

632
00:31:37,013 --> 00:31:40,853
Speaker 4: But I really wanted Ruben Love in the squad and

633
00:31:41,293 --> 00:31:44,253
Speaker 4: he's a guy that lit up super rugby. He's one

634
00:31:44,293 --> 00:31:48,893
Speaker 4: of the most exciting prospects since Christian Cullen from a

635
00:31:49,053 --> 00:31:52,973
Speaker 4: pure attacking point of view, and I would love to

636
00:31:53,053 --> 00:31:55,653
Speaker 4: see his skill set be given a chance to shine

637
00:31:55,693 --> 00:32:00,053
Speaker 4: on the Test scene. So I'm disappointed that he's not there.

638
00:32:00,413 --> 00:32:02,653
Speaker 4: Stephen Peter Efecta didn't play a lot of rugby this year,

639
00:32:02,973 --> 00:32:06,973
Speaker 4: and when he did it it was almost exclusively from fullback.

640
00:32:07,213 --> 00:32:10,733
Speaker 4: His versatility as an upside if you select Ruben Love.

641
00:32:10,853 --> 00:32:12,773
Speaker 4: He can't play ten, but.

642
00:32:12,893 --> 00:32:13,773
Speaker 3: Hasn't for a long time.

643
00:32:13,893 --> 00:32:18,013
Speaker 4: He hasn't established himself at ten at super rugby level,

644
00:32:18,093 --> 00:32:21,693
Speaker 4: so clearly that working in Steven's favor. I think also

645
00:32:22,013 --> 00:32:27,773
Speaker 4: his relationship with Leo McDonald knows him well, so that's

646
00:32:28,453 --> 00:32:33,213
Speaker 4: a tick. But I guess first five is a position

647
00:32:33,253 --> 00:32:35,813
Speaker 4: where there's not a lot of depth. Harry Plumbers, a

648
00:32:35,853 --> 00:32:38,293
Speaker 4: guy that's been there, was a bit of a clamor

649
00:32:38,373 --> 00:32:40,613
Speaker 4: for him after the way he led the Blues this year.

650
00:32:40,653 --> 00:32:42,973
Speaker 3: It was interesting here Scott Hansen speak with Jason Pye

651
00:32:43,093 --> 00:32:45,373
Speaker 3: and he said it was asked whether Harry Plumber is

652
00:32:45,413 --> 00:32:47,613
Speaker 3: in the mix, and Scott Hansen said one hundred percent

653
00:32:47,773 --> 00:32:49,533
Speaker 3: deserved to be in the mix because he was playing

654
00:32:49,573 --> 00:32:52,173
Speaker 3: some superb rugby. But just the challenge of him now

655
00:32:52,293 --> 00:32:54,253
Speaker 3: is to keep backing it up at NPC level and

656
00:32:54,893 --> 00:32:57,133
Speaker 3: I think he's family now in the All Blacks radar.

657
00:32:57,493 --> 00:33:00,533
Speaker 3: Whether that converts into a call up is you know,

658
00:33:00,773 --> 00:33:03,333
Speaker 3: anyone's scarce, but he's certainly in the conversation for the

659
00:33:03,333 --> 00:33:03,773
Speaker 3: All Blacks.

660
00:33:03,853 --> 00:33:05,373
Speaker 4: Well, if you're going down the rungs, he has to

661
00:33:05,413 --> 00:33:08,373
Speaker 4: be done. He outplayed Brett Cameron when it met and

662
00:33:08,493 --> 00:33:12,133
Speaker 4: it's look, I think there's an argument about playing behind

663
00:33:12,213 --> 00:33:14,573
Speaker 4: an extremely dominant full pack, which helps you, but you've

664
00:33:14,613 --> 00:33:17,053
Speaker 4: still got to make those decisions and execute them. And

665
00:33:17,813 --> 00:33:20,973
Speaker 4: Harry's goalkicking as well was superb, so ticked a lot

666
00:33:21,013 --> 00:33:24,253
Speaker 4: of boxes. Look, I do rate Stephen Peterfetter. He's a

667
00:33:24,253 --> 00:33:27,373
Speaker 4: classy operator, very skillful, great at the line, great at

668
00:33:27,413 --> 00:33:30,613
Speaker 4: creating for others and hasn't really had a crack for

669
00:33:30,653 --> 00:33:33,053
Speaker 4: the All Blacks, so he is deserving a being there.

670
00:33:33,253 --> 00:33:35,133
Speaker 4: But if it was up to me, I would have

671
00:33:35,173 --> 00:33:37,653
Speaker 4: selected Reuben Love because he's a point of difference and

672
00:33:37,693 --> 00:33:39,333
Speaker 4: he's an out and out genuine fullback.

673
00:33:39,613 --> 00:33:41,533
Speaker 3: Let's get back into the outside backs before we get

674
00:33:41,533 --> 00:33:44,013
Speaker 3: into the midfielder is then caterber Clark in morning at

675
00:33:44,053 --> 00:33:48,373
Speaker 3: our Stephen Peter Felder severy re smart Tala on the

676
00:33:48,453 --> 00:33:50,693
Speaker 3: basis of that, I mean, I know that also is

677
00:33:50,693 --> 00:33:52,653
Speaker 3: outside backs. You would think Boden Barrett's going to start

678
00:33:52,653 --> 00:33:54,133
Speaker 3: at fullback in the first Test, even though he's not

679
00:33:54,173 --> 00:33:56,173
Speaker 3: listed as being an outside back.

680
00:33:56,693 --> 00:34:01,013
Speaker 4: But he's bolted on ye I would argue they're not

681
00:34:01,093 --> 00:34:06,813
Speaker 4: going to start Stephen Petter Perefetter at fullback and there's

682
00:34:06,853 --> 00:34:11,853
Speaker 4: no other options. Narawa has played fullback, but probably not

683
00:34:11,893 --> 00:34:15,373
Speaker 4: what they're looking for at test level exactly. So yeah,

684
00:34:15,413 --> 00:34:17,693
Speaker 4: you could pretty much name the All Blacks back line now.

685
00:34:18,213 --> 00:34:23,413
Speaker 4: I think the wings are contestable, but midfields, I think

686
00:34:23,493 --> 00:34:27,373
Speaker 4: t J. Petinara starts at half back, Damian McKenzie's at ten,

687
00:34:27,853 --> 00:34:32,133
Speaker 4: Jeordie Barrett, Riquewani and Boden Barrack at fullback. So who's

688
00:34:32,213 --> 00:34:32,933
Speaker 4: just starting wings?

689
00:34:33,493 --> 00:34:36,373
Speaker 3: Well, I think Severa Reese on the left wing and

690
00:34:36,493 --> 00:34:37,333
Speaker 3: Mark Tilera on the right.

691
00:34:37,413 --> 00:34:40,893
Speaker 4: For me, yeah, not too many. I'm not totally sold

692
00:34:40,893 --> 00:34:44,093
Speaker 4: about sever Reese, but I think Mark t Lea for sure.

693
00:34:45,373 --> 00:34:49,493
Speaker 4: The way that England play high ball is going to

694
00:34:49,533 --> 00:34:52,693
Speaker 4: be important, so maybe that brings Caleb Clark into the equation.

695
00:34:54,213 --> 00:34:57,293
Speaker 4: The question with him is he's carrying a rib injury,

696
00:34:57,373 --> 00:35:00,373
Speaker 4: same of off towing a fussy so they have broaden

697
00:35:01,013 --> 00:35:06,093
Speaker 4: cover there. But look, sever Reese was the Crusader's best

698
00:35:06,133 --> 00:35:09,373
Speaker 4: performer in a dire season for the part, and it's

699
00:35:09,493 --> 00:35:11,613
Speaker 4: really hard to play well in a poor team, so

700
00:35:12,213 --> 00:35:16,013
Speaker 4: he thoroughly deserves to be in the squad and he's

701
00:35:16,053 --> 00:35:17,493
Speaker 4: certainly pushing for starting claims.

702
00:35:17,573 --> 00:35:20,013
Speaker 3: Yeah, and big moment for Southland as well, getting a

703
00:35:20,173 --> 00:35:22,613
Speaker 3: second to All Black. I spoke with the Southland radio

704
00:35:22,653 --> 00:35:24,733
Speaker 3: station this morning and they were absolutely delighted to have

705
00:35:24,813 --> 00:35:27,733
Speaker 3: too All Blacks in the mix. I guess the other

706
00:35:27,813 --> 00:35:29,893
Speaker 3: selection the player that's missed out there. I don't think

707
00:35:30,373 --> 00:35:33,133
Speaker 3: we had him in. But Shawn Stevenson, a player that's

708
00:35:33,133 --> 00:35:36,213
Speaker 3: performed well for the Chiefs, I do think obviously didn't

709
00:35:36,213 --> 00:35:38,333
Speaker 3: play the semi final against the Hurricanes. Maybe if he

710
00:35:38,413 --> 00:35:40,173
Speaker 3: played there might have been able to stake his claim

711
00:35:40,173 --> 00:35:42,893
Speaker 3: a bit more. Nothing went the way of the Chiefs

712
00:35:42,933 --> 00:35:46,053
Speaker 3: on Saturday night really, especially you know in terms of

713
00:35:46,093 --> 00:35:48,373
Speaker 3: back's getting quality ball. He couldn't do a life and

714
00:35:48,413 --> 00:35:50,253
Speaker 3: he had a knock on at one point or a

715
00:35:50,293 --> 00:35:52,453
Speaker 3: couple of eras, so he didn't get a chance to

716
00:35:52,493 --> 00:35:55,333
Speaker 3: stake his claim. But it feels like this is probably

717
00:35:55,453 --> 00:35:59,133
Speaker 3: destined to be Sean Stevenson's lot. Might get another test

718
00:35:59,213 --> 00:36:01,653
Speaker 3: here or there for injury cover, but when Ruben Love

719
00:36:01,653 --> 00:36:03,453
Speaker 3: has been picked ahead of him in terms of that

720
00:36:03,613 --> 00:36:06,253
Speaker 3: injury cover, it's looking a long way back now for

721
00:36:06,293 --> 00:36:08,173
Speaker 3: Shawn Stevenson making another All Blacks appearance.

722
00:36:08,733 --> 00:36:10,933
Speaker 4: It is in the Chiefs back three in general had

723
00:36:10,933 --> 00:36:13,493
Speaker 4: a really poor knight in that Super Abiy final. Stevenson.

724
00:36:13,573 --> 00:36:15,573
Speaker 4: You mentioned that the drop high ball which wasn't a

725
00:36:16,013 --> 00:36:19,853
Speaker 4: great kick from Finn Labor. That was as close to

726
00:36:19,973 --> 00:36:22,493
Speaker 4: Test match for the as you'll get. It was raining

727
00:36:22,853 --> 00:36:25,213
Speaker 4: as well, and you've got to be better than that

728
00:36:25,693 --> 00:36:27,813
Speaker 4: early doors he looked nervous as well. Throw a long

729
00:36:27,893 --> 00:36:32,093
Speaker 4: ball out on the fall, it's any Nina sturo kicked

730
00:36:32,533 --> 00:36:36,653
Speaker 4: another ball out on the fall Amoni Nawa even letter

731
00:36:36,733 --> 00:36:39,853
Speaker 4: kickoff go over his head and bounce out. So those

732
00:36:39,893 --> 00:36:42,613
Speaker 4: sort of instances in a final. When we talk about Hoskins,

733
00:36:44,293 --> 00:36:47,093
Speaker 4: Wallace a Titi performing in a semi, when you don't

734
00:36:47,133 --> 00:36:49,373
Speaker 4: perform in a final, it's the same sort of dynamics.

735
00:36:49,453 --> 00:36:52,453
Speaker 4: So I think that hurts Stevenson's chances. And you're right

736
00:36:52,533 --> 00:36:54,453
Speaker 4: that room in Love has moved ahead of him in

737
00:36:54,493 --> 00:36:59,613
Speaker 4: the picking order, so he needs some consistent footy as well.

738
00:36:59,653 --> 00:37:01,093
Speaker 4: He didn't play a lot this year in and out

739
00:37:01,133 --> 00:37:02,973
Speaker 4: of the Chiefs team, so that didn't help no.

740
00:37:03,213 --> 00:37:05,213
Speaker 3: And I guess he's always been the NRAL question around

741
00:37:05,253 --> 00:37:08,893
Speaker 3: Shawn Stevenson. That comes again, I don't know. I know

742
00:37:09,013 --> 00:37:11,053
Speaker 3: Wayne Bennett tried to get him at the Dolphins wayn

743
00:37:11,053 --> 00:37:15,093
Speaker 3: Bennett's now gone to going to South Sydney next year.

744
00:37:15,253 --> 00:37:18,133
Speaker 3: I'm not sure if Shawn Simonson is contracted as yet

745
00:37:18,213 --> 00:37:20,693
Speaker 3: for next year, trying to remember whether he resigned or not.

746
00:37:20,813 --> 00:37:23,373
Speaker 3: But regardless, this is an interesting decision coming up for

747
00:37:23,413 --> 00:37:24,413
Speaker 3: someone like Shawn Steminson.

748
00:37:24,773 --> 00:37:26,973
Speaker 4: It is and it will be for all the players

749
00:37:27,013 --> 00:37:30,493
Speaker 4: on the friends. If it's a bit different, you're and

750
00:37:30,613 --> 00:37:33,053
Speaker 4: Noah Hopham shoes and yeah, you're twenty years old. But

751
00:37:33,133 --> 00:37:35,013
Speaker 4: if you've been around, you've been knocking on the door,

752
00:37:35,493 --> 00:37:37,933
Speaker 4: You've played a couple of tests and then been pushed

753
00:37:37,973 --> 00:37:40,373
Speaker 4: back to the fringe. Others move ahead a year. Yeah,

754
00:37:40,453 --> 00:37:44,093
Speaker 4: you contemplate your future and potentially look to other options

755
00:37:44,133 --> 00:37:44,693
Speaker 4: to cash.

756
00:37:44,533 --> 00:37:45,013
Speaker 6: In you do.

757
00:37:45,333 --> 00:37:48,413
Speaker 3: Let's get into the midfield as our final selection. Jordi

758
00:37:48,493 --> 00:37:51,293
Speaker 3: Barrett the new vice captain alongside Rico, Joanni Anton that

759
00:37:51,373 --> 00:37:53,413
Speaker 3: at Brown and Billy Proctor. I mean this was picked

760
00:37:53,453 --> 00:37:57,413
Speaker 3: weeks ago. No change there, but great congratulations to Billy Proctor.

761
00:37:57,453 --> 00:37:59,933
Speaker 3: Great selection. He's been a great, great season for the

762
00:38:00,973 --> 00:38:03,133
Speaker 3: Hurricanes and well deserving of his chance. He's been a

763
00:38:03,173 --> 00:38:04,853
Speaker 3: player that's been on the radar of the All Blacks

764
00:38:04,893 --> 00:38:07,413
Speaker 3: and higher honors for a number of seasons.

765
00:38:07,493 --> 00:38:07,573
Speaker 6: Now.

766
00:38:07,613 --> 00:38:09,533
Speaker 3: I think he signed a five year contract just out

767
00:38:09,573 --> 00:38:13,253
Speaker 3: of high school with the Hurricanes now at twenty five

768
00:38:13,573 --> 00:38:16,653
Speaker 3: getting into his body, knows the skills, knows how to

769
00:38:16,733 --> 00:38:20,093
Speaker 3: read a game. Very very good player and well deserving

770
00:38:20,133 --> 00:38:21,733
Speaker 3: the chance. But as I say, no surprises in that

771
00:38:21,773 --> 00:38:23,133
Speaker 3: midfield pick No.

772
00:38:23,213 --> 00:38:25,853
Speaker 4: There's a few dynamics at play here though. Billy thoroughly

773
00:38:25,933 --> 00:38:28,053
Speaker 4: deserving of his chance, not just for his form this year,

774
00:38:28,093 --> 00:38:30,133
Speaker 4: but he has been knocking on the door since last year.

775
00:38:30,933 --> 00:38:33,813
Speaker 4: He's really starting to put some pressure on en Rique Oani.

776
00:38:35,053 --> 00:38:37,933
Speaker 4: Another question I would put to you is there's three

777
00:38:38,053 --> 00:38:41,653
Speaker 4: centers in that mix, East Antonlina Brown has the ability

778
00:38:41,693 --> 00:38:44,093
Speaker 4: to play both, but are the All Black short of

779
00:38:44,533 --> 00:38:47,213
Speaker 4: another physically dominant twelve.

780
00:38:47,733 --> 00:38:50,013
Speaker 3: I think they are, to be honest, and that probably

781
00:38:50,053 --> 00:38:51,773
Speaker 3: speaks to a lack of options, but also in fact

782
00:38:51,773 --> 00:38:55,533
Speaker 3: they only selected thirty two and perhaps couldn't go a

783
00:38:55,613 --> 00:38:59,253
Speaker 3: little bit wider. I mean, aj Lamb had superb back

784
00:38:59,293 --> 00:39:00,813
Speaker 3: into the season. I was doubtful that he was a

785
00:39:00,853 --> 00:39:03,373
Speaker 3: second five at all, but was probably arguably the player

786
00:39:03,373 --> 00:39:05,093
Speaker 3: of the semi final and maybe even the final for

787
00:39:05,133 --> 00:39:06,653
Speaker 3: the Blues. So he's a player that could well have

788
00:39:06,733 --> 00:39:10,653
Speaker 3: been in the mix for them. David Harveli missing out

789
00:39:10,813 --> 00:39:13,893
Speaker 3: and there is injury cover. He's played twelve for the

790
00:39:14,053 --> 00:39:15,693
Speaker 3: Crusaders for a number of seasons, played there for the

791
00:39:15,733 --> 00:39:19,093
Speaker 3: All Blacks as well, So I think they are missing

792
00:39:19,173 --> 00:39:21,133
Speaker 3: out on the second five. I mean someone like Harry

793
00:39:21,173 --> 00:39:23,733
Speaker 3: Plummett could potentially play second five. Maybe not that physically

794
00:39:23,773 --> 00:39:27,733
Speaker 3: dominant player you're looking for, but that's an area potentially

795
00:39:27,733 --> 00:39:30,253
Speaker 3: a weakness. If Jordi Barrett goes down, you're looking at

796
00:39:30,293 --> 00:39:33,853
Speaker 3: a midfield of Anton Lenett Brown, Enrico Yuani or Anton

797
00:39:33,933 --> 00:39:36,333
Speaker 3: Lenet Brown and Billy Proctor. So I think options are

798
00:39:36,373 --> 00:39:38,213
Speaker 3: a little bit thin at second five there.

799
00:39:38,613 --> 00:39:41,653
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that's my point that Jordi. If you

800
00:39:41,733 --> 00:39:44,933
Speaker 4: lose Jordian, there's no light for light replacement in terms

801
00:39:44,973 --> 00:39:47,813
Speaker 4: of what he brings, his ability to bend and break

802
00:39:47,893 --> 00:39:52,173
Speaker 4: the line, be physically combative on defense. There is no

803
00:39:52,413 --> 00:39:55,213
Speaker 4: other replacement like that in his Zella rugby out there,

804
00:39:55,333 --> 00:39:58,613
Speaker 4: So they've sweating on his fitness all year.

805
00:39:59,013 --> 00:40:00,973
Speaker 3: They will be and I don't know who else is

806
00:40:01,013 --> 00:40:02,853
Speaker 3: on the Robin aj Lamb. Maybe they will be the

807
00:40:02,933 --> 00:40:06,653
Speaker 3: next option Bryce Heen the Blues. But there's a guy

808
00:40:06,773 --> 00:40:08,093
Speaker 3: Allis McLeod, maybe a.

809
00:40:08,133 --> 00:40:11,853
Speaker 4: Guy that lever More could potentially do that job, but

810
00:40:12,053 --> 00:40:14,533
Speaker 4: was extremely underwhelming for the Crusaders and looks a long

811
00:40:14,613 --> 00:40:18,533
Speaker 4: way off Test football, but that's the sort of physical composition.

812
00:40:19,693 --> 00:40:21,813
Speaker 3: McLoud was sort of mentioned as maybe the Jordy Barrett

813
00:40:21,853 --> 00:40:24,293
Speaker 3: prototype out of the Crusaders, and maybe that's someone they

814
00:40:24,373 --> 00:40:27,253
Speaker 3: go back to, but again he didn't have a year

815
00:40:27,573 --> 00:40:30,333
Speaker 3: of consistency for the Crusaders in terms of selection.

816
00:40:30,453 --> 00:40:32,413
Speaker 4: We were his pick, so it's not a position of

817
00:40:32,493 --> 00:40:32,973
Speaker 4: great depth.

818
00:40:33,453 --> 00:40:35,453
Speaker 3: No, it's not. Any final thoughts on the All Blacks

819
00:40:35,653 --> 00:40:36,453
Speaker 3: squad of thirty two.

820
00:40:37,333 --> 00:40:41,053
Speaker 4: I think, well, I don't know, were you expecting a

821
00:40:41,173 --> 00:40:43,933
Speaker 4: revolution a Razor River right that I.

822
00:40:44,133 --> 00:40:46,493
Speaker 3: Wasn't, but I think some people were, and I've seen

823
00:40:46,573 --> 00:40:49,293
Speaker 3: some comments online around well this is similar to what

824
00:40:49,333 --> 00:40:52,253
Speaker 3: Ian fosterpec last year, and it is to an extent,

825
00:40:53,373 --> 00:40:56,813
Speaker 3: but no one's really played their way out of selection

826
00:40:57,133 --> 00:40:58,893
Speaker 3: that are still available for the All Blacks. You think

827
00:40:59,133 --> 00:41:01,213
Speaker 3: a lot of those players they've stood up again in

828
00:41:01,293 --> 00:41:04,093
Speaker 3: Super Rugby, they've been there or thereabouts. I think maybe, yeah,

829
00:41:04,093 --> 00:41:05,893
Speaker 3: people were expecting that he was going to throw out

830
00:41:05,973 --> 00:41:07,853
Speaker 3: and pick a whole up, but you guys, but in

831
00:41:07,933 --> 00:41:10,333
Speaker 3: a squad of thirty two, you don't have room for that.

832
00:41:11,013 --> 00:41:13,413
Speaker 3: Maybe when they get to the Rugby Championship and they're

833
00:41:13,413 --> 00:41:15,293
Speaker 3: looking at thirty six there there's some new faces that

834
00:41:15,373 --> 00:41:17,573
Speaker 3: may come in there end of your two. We don't

835
00:41:17,573 --> 00:41:19,133
Speaker 3: have a number on how many they're likely to take,

836
00:41:19,173 --> 00:41:23,893
Speaker 3: but there's a five test program abroad starts in Japan, England, Ireland,

837
00:41:24,053 --> 00:41:27,213
Speaker 3: France Big three weeks in a row, the Italy to

838
00:41:27,293 --> 00:41:30,093
Speaker 3: finished the season in Churin. That to me looks like

839
00:41:30,253 --> 00:41:33,413
Speaker 3: where you might see some of these players, especially the

840
00:41:33,493 --> 00:41:35,213
Speaker 3: night of twenty twenty seven, start to come at a

841
00:41:35,253 --> 00:41:36,893
Speaker 3: wee bit more if they take an expanded squad.

842
00:41:37,453 --> 00:41:39,173
Speaker 4: I think the other point to this is this is

843
00:41:39,293 --> 00:41:44,293
Speaker 4: Ray's's first squad. They have ten days to prepare the

844
00:41:44,333 --> 00:41:47,733
Speaker 4: All Blacks for a test against England, who are coming

845
00:41:47,813 --> 00:41:52,893
Speaker 4: off a head out against Japan. Traditionally this is the

846
00:41:52,973 --> 00:41:55,893
Speaker 4: All Blacks start rusty. You've got a new coaching team,

847
00:41:56,813 --> 00:42:00,293
Speaker 4: a whole new sort of vision culture. There's a danger

848
00:42:00,333 --> 00:42:02,293
Speaker 4: that you're going to overwhelm them in a short space

849
00:42:02,333 --> 00:42:05,173
Speaker 4: of time. So you're not going to throw the baby

850
00:42:05,173 --> 00:42:07,173
Speaker 4: out with the bath water. As you mentioned, there's still

851
00:42:07,173 --> 00:42:11,213
Speaker 4: a number of established, core experience All Blacks there, so

852
00:42:11,933 --> 00:42:15,093
Speaker 4: I wasn't expecting a massive revolution either. So I think

853
00:42:15,213 --> 00:42:17,893
Speaker 4: on the balance of things you can argue different selections.

854
00:42:18,293 --> 00:42:23,773
Speaker 4: But we are talking fringe largely as well, because when

855
00:42:23,813 --> 00:42:27,413
Speaker 4: you look at hooker Samasoni Takyaho is going to come back.

856
00:42:27,933 --> 00:42:30,253
Speaker 4: When you look at half back Cam Rougart is going

857
00:42:30,333 --> 00:42:32,493
Speaker 4: to come back, When you look at fallback Will Jordan

858
00:42:32,653 --> 00:42:35,173
Speaker 4: is going to come back. So there's all those other

859
00:42:35,293 --> 00:42:38,173
Speaker 4: dynamics at play as well. But it is going to

860
00:42:38,173 --> 00:42:41,933
Speaker 4: be fascinating to see how the All Blacks, how Razor

861
00:42:42,253 --> 00:42:44,333
Speaker 4: goes about getting this team ready for a first Test

862
00:42:44,373 --> 00:42:47,093
Speaker 4: against England, because that is a bloody tough start.

863
00:42:47,293 --> 00:42:49,493
Speaker 3: It is time is ticking. They're only going to gather

864
00:42:49,573 --> 00:42:51,853
Speaker 3: on the Wednesday of this week in Wellington. They play

865
00:42:51,853 --> 00:42:54,933
Speaker 3: a test the following Saturday in Duneed and Wright. So

866
00:42:55,053 --> 00:42:57,493
Speaker 3: before we leave the All Blacks discussion, let's hear your

867
00:42:57,613 --> 00:42:59,413
Speaker 3: chat with Ford's coach Jason.

868
00:42:59,293 --> 00:43:05,893
Speaker 7: Rans It called it the toughest call. What the balance,

869
00:43:05,933 --> 00:43:07,653
Speaker 7: I guess, yeah, I.

870
00:43:07,733 --> 00:43:09,533
Speaker 5: Mean tracking both of them.

871
00:43:09,533 --> 00:43:14,293
Speaker 8: Obviously, it's really important that we have both sides of

872
00:43:14,333 --> 00:43:17,093
Speaker 8: the ball, if for our loose forwards, and that's something

873
00:43:17,133 --> 00:43:20,773
Speaker 8: that Ray really wanted from was loosers, you know, thankfully,

874
00:43:20,813 --> 00:43:23,693
Speaker 8: And that's different than the selecting model that is this

875
00:43:23,893 --> 00:43:26,413
Speaker 8: year where we all get a little say in specious areas,

876
00:43:26,413 --> 00:43:29,773
Speaker 8: which is quite unique on its own. I think probably

877
00:43:29,813 --> 00:43:33,733
Speaker 8: what timpt was how dominant he was in a semi final.

878
00:43:34,013 --> 00:43:36,453
Speaker 8: To turn up and just put on an absolute clinic

879
00:43:36,573 --> 00:43:40,493
Speaker 8: like that, it was pretty impressive. Scotty Hanson and coaching

880
00:43:40,533 --> 00:43:43,253
Speaker 8: in the Twins. He's been around for a while, just

881
00:43:43,253 --> 00:43:46,133
Speaker 8: similar around the back background and did a little bit

882
00:43:46,133 --> 00:43:49,013
Speaker 8: of homework with Liam Missing, had a good chat to

883
00:43:49,573 --> 00:43:51,813
Speaker 8: Hunger about him. He sort of mentored him through and

884
00:43:52,333 --> 00:43:54,533
Speaker 8: just ask him a couple of questions on character.

885
00:43:54,373 --> 00:43:57,333
Speaker 5: And that sort of thing. So and he tucks and

886
00:43:57,413 --> 00:43:59,493
Speaker 5: tipped all the boxes and we believe we could get

887
00:43:59,573 --> 00:44:01,613
Speaker 5: him to test him were really really cockee side.

888
00:44:03,853 --> 00:44:04,933
Speaker 7: We'll glad you see that position.

889
00:44:05,013 --> 00:44:09,093
Speaker 4: Generally, Sad was the year last year as an eights

890
00:44:09,533 --> 00:44:11,213
Speaker 4: because they've got a lot of flexibility in those of

891
00:44:11,253 --> 00:44:16,053
Speaker 4: those thoughts. Even both had a look Jacobson, some female

892
00:44:18,093 --> 00:44:20,453
Speaker 4: we would be your next choice number eight.

893
00:44:20,653 --> 00:44:22,773
Speaker 8: Yes, I'm going to be a lot bit early to

894
00:44:22,853 --> 00:44:26,653
Speaker 8: call the next next choices. We've got a artists be

895
00:44:26,733 --> 00:44:29,573
Speaker 8: so will we know that? And he's you know he

896
00:44:29,653 --> 00:44:32,773
Speaker 8: can also play seven too, and Wallace gives us that

897
00:44:32,893 --> 00:44:34,653
Speaker 8: as well. You know he can he can actually play

898
00:44:34,733 --> 00:44:37,333
Speaker 8: the whole three as well, So there's a you know,

899
00:44:37,373 --> 00:44:39,253
Speaker 8: we'll get a good look at them training and I've

900
00:44:39,293 --> 00:44:42,533
Speaker 8: got a fair idea of what our top testing we

901
00:44:42,653 --> 00:44:43,933
Speaker 8: believe for the first game will be.

902
00:44:44,013 --> 00:44:45,373
Speaker 5: We need to be there where we're at.

903
00:44:45,493 --> 00:44:50,053
Speaker 8: So I just think that with Wallace Nester's durability around

904
00:44:50,053 --> 00:44:52,653
Speaker 8: both sides of the ball, and also there's being able

905
00:44:52,693 --> 00:44:56,013
Speaker 8: to play a couple of positions is quite important farming.

906
00:44:56,693 --> 00:44:59,893
Speaker 4: But how does it work with this solection. Obviously cool

907
00:44:59,933 --> 00:45:01,693
Speaker 4: guys that are in, but ye're cool guys that are

908
00:45:01,733 --> 00:45:04,613
Speaker 4: in the fringe. Obviously again Hoskins or the hopeful you

909
00:45:04,893 --> 00:45:06,253
Speaker 4: get them done general type thing.

910
00:45:06,533 --> 00:45:07,133
Speaker 5: Yep.

911
00:45:07,173 --> 00:45:09,933
Speaker 8: So Raises talked to whole Skins, He's given him their

912
00:45:09,933 --> 00:45:12,093
Speaker 8: heads up, and all the guys ever really close, and

913
00:45:12,613 --> 00:45:14,613
Speaker 8: I think he's touched on who's coming in as a

914
00:45:14,613 --> 00:45:17,293
Speaker 8: little bit of Andrew cover te conversations with.

915
00:45:17,333 --> 00:45:19,373
Speaker 5: Fostering a year as well with Blues and talked to

916
00:45:19,493 --> 00:45:22,093
Speaker 5: vernon that constant.

917
00:45:22,133 --> 00:45:24,013
Speaker 8: I think that's a good bit of a point of

918
00:45:24,013 --> 00:45:25,773
Speaker 8: difference that I think all the coaches got around the

919
00:45:25,773 --> 00:45:26,853
Speaker 8: super clubs this year too.

920
00:45:26,813 --> 00:45:29,733
Speaker 5: That they're in there all the time and that's where

921
00:45:29,773 --> 00:45:30,853
Speaker 5: you sort of do your homework and in.

922
00:45:30,893 --> 00:45:31,773
Speaker 7: The commerce.

923
00:45:33,933 --> 00:45:34,573
Speaker 6: And toss.

924
00:45:37,693 --> 00:45:39,133
Speaker 4: He came on late in the year, didn't head to

925
00:45:39,213 --> 00:45:43,133
Speaker 4: himself when the Tyrell got in Judies for a lot

926
00:45:43,133 --> 00:45:45,613
Speaker 4: of minutes. He think he's had a big factory three

927
00:45:45,613 --> 00:45:47,453
Speaker 4: of the same starting not just god enough to be.

928
00:45:48,573 --> 00:45:50,653
Speaker 5: Sort of it wasn't it wasn't. He's been simone away

929
00:45:50,653 --> 00:45:51,933
Speaker 5: in the background for Roland.

930
00:45:51,653 --> 00:45:55,453
Speaker 8: Should's he's the strongest prop of the country thinking squad

931
00:45:55,453 --> 00:45:56,253
Speaker 8: over friend of Killo.

932
00:45:56,493 --> 00:45:59,653
Speaker 5: He's amazing and he's young, but.

933
00:45:59,813 --> 00:46:04,333
Speaker 8: He's he's in a position that's the most demanding position

934
00:46:04,413 --> 00:46:06,693
Speaker 8: in the rugby field and tight hair prop but well

935
00:46:06,733 --> 00:46:10,173
Speaker 8: back herself to get him Potesta with you know pretty quickly,

936
00:46:10,413 --> 00:46:12,293
Speaker 8: and we'll need to and I've got no doubt that

937
00:46:12,413 --> 00:46:12,693
Speaker 8: we can.

938
00:46:12,813 --> 00:46:14,373
Speaker 5: And I think it's really.

939
00:46:17,373 --> 00:46:19,933
Speaker 8: I'll probably like to play a tribute to Jamie McIntosh

940
00:46:20,173 --> 00:46:24,573
Speaker 8: what was done a great job with with Pussy and

941
00:46:24,773 --> 00:46:27,093
Speaker 8: Lowie and that's you know in the Suffo.

942
00:46:27,213 --> 00:46:28,933
Speaker 5: So I think that you know where he's got into

943
00:46:28,933 --> 00:46:29,373
Speaker 5: it at the moment.

944
00:46:29,453 --> 00:46:32,413
Speaker 8: The conversations that I've had with with what during the

945
00:46:32,533 --> 00:46:35,933
Speaker 8: year constantly has been really good and he's played back

946
00:46:36,013 --> 00:46:37,093
Speaker 8: part and now we've we've.

947
00:46:36,933 --> 00:46:38,333
Speaker 5: Got to get him to the next level down and

948
00:46:38,373 --> 00:46:40,053
Speaker 5: all black and he's at a great age. You know,

949
00:46:40,173 --> 00:46:43,173
Speaker 5: he could disguise on them off for the young color.

950
00:46:43,333 --> 00:46:45,853
Speaker 4: Obviously your tight heads. Yeah, Yan creas scrumbling and you

951
00:46:45,893 --> 00:46:47,533
Speaker 4: know he called you just come first. But as a

952
00:46:47,693 --> 00:46:51,253
Speaker 4: former number eight, I think he only switched four years

953
00:46:51,253 --> 00:46:57,213
Speaker 4: ago in Southland to those skills, that skill set something

954
00:46:57,253 --> 00:46:57,973
Speaker 4: that you like as well.

955
00:46:58,093 --> 00:46:59,613
Speaker 5: Yeah, you've got to have a scrum first.

956
00:46:59,813 --> 00:47:02,253
Speaker 8: And he's there and you know the test level was

957
00:47:02,253 --> 00:47:04,293
Speaker 8: a little bit different and it's up quite a bit more.

958
00:47:04,373 --> 00:47:08,333
Speaker 5: But his agility around the park has Paul carry.

959
00:47:08,133 --> 00:47:11,893
Speaker 8: High, especially that twenty two attack stuff and his work

960
00:47:11,973 --> 00:47:13,613
Speaker 8: around them all both sides of the ball.

961
00:47:13,853 --> 00:47:17,453
Speaker 5: He's right on. So yeah, it's it's exciting with the

962
00:47:17,533 --> 00:47:19,053
Speaker 5: three tidies, we've got to the field.

963
00:47:20,133 --> 00:47:21,933
Speaker 7: What about agis just the style of plague?

964
00:47:22,853 --> 00:47:25,573
Speaker 4: How how much you said evolving from from last year,

965
00:47:26,053 --> 00:47:28,213
Speaker 4: were still caring for a number of guys that were

966
00:47:28,213 --> 00:47:28,813
Speaker 4: in that squad.

967
00:47:31,013 --> 00:47:33,453
Speaker 7: How how's this group going to play it without giving

968
00:47:33,493 --> 00:47:33,813
Speaker 7: too much?

969
00:47:34,733 --> 00:47:35,493
Speaker 5: We want to have a crack.

970
00:47:37,173 --> 00:47:39,253
Speaker 8: We were you know, we're being challenged as coaches to

971
00:47:39,733 --> 00:47:42,933
Speaker 8: make sure that we're having a real dug in our

972
00:47:42,973 --> 00:47:46,053
Speaker 8: own areas. And the one thing, one of the many

973
00:47:46,093 --> 00:47:49,133
Speaker 8: things I losed learned in the test arena is you've

974
00:47:49,173 --> 00:47:53,093
Speaker 8: got to have your four pack even more so, you know,

975
00:47:53,293 --> 00:47:56,093
Speaker 8: really leading and that sets up other parts of your

976
00:47:56,133 --> 00:47:59,453
Speaker 8: game really. But you know, under the roof, I want

977
00:47:59,493 --> 00:48:01,933
Speaker 8: to put on a good show and I've got no

978
00:48:02,093 --> 00:48:05,173
Speaker 8: different you know, I'm sure England are no different than

979
00:48:05,173 --> 00:48:06,973
Speaker 8: how they want to play a tough side.

980
00:48:07,773 --> 00:48:11,893
Speaker 7: What made him in a general gone up a few

981
00:48:11,933 --> 00:48:13,533
Speaker 7: notches in the Six Nations.

982
00:48:13,693 --> 00:48:15,773
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, they have been. I think they're in a

983
00:48:16,133 --> 00:48:17,013
Speaker 5: think they're in a good spot.

984
00:48:17,053 --> 00:48:20,573
Speaker 8: They're Yeah, they've heard it because you know that game

985
00:48:20,613 --> 00:48:22,413
Speaker 8: against Island in the last game in the Six Nations

986
00:48:22,453 --> 00:48:25,253
Speaker 8: from They're upstanding. Saw a lot of that game and

987
00:48:25,853 --> 00:48:28,013
Speaker 8: done our homework on them as they will be on us.

988
00:48:28,093 --> 00:48:30,253
Speaker 8: And I think they're here in the country in a

989
00:48:30,293 --> 00:48:32,813
Speaker 8: few days. So we're looking forward to the series. Great

990
00:48:32,813 --> 00:48:34,533
Speaker 8: to come straight out of the blocks into England.

991
00:48:34,733 --> 00:48:35,733
Speaker 5: I know we're rectally quick.

992
00:48:35,853 --> 00:48:38,493
Speaker 3: It's some interesting thoughts there from Jace. Ryan and I

993
00:48:38,653 --> 00:48:41,333
Speaker 3: caught up with the new cap in the front row

994
00:48:41,413 --> 00:48:44,813
Speaker 3: the un cap player in the front row PASSAI or TOSSI, congratulations,

995
00:48:45,253 --> 00:48:45,973
Speaker 3: how did you find out?

996
00:48:46,933 --> 00:48:47,133
Speaker 2: Ray?

997
00:48:47,493 --> 00:48:48,773
Speaker 3: Ray called me this morning?

998
00:48:50,693 --> 00:48:51,133
Speaker 6: Oh teacher.

999
00:48:51,333 --> 00:48:51,613
Speaker 2: The story.

1000
00:48:51,853 --> 00:48:53,933
Speaker 6: I was just trotting upstairs because it's just waking up,

1001
00:48:55,093 --> 00:48:56,733
Speaker 6: and I was trotting upstairs and normally I'll put a

1002
00:48:56,813 --> 00:48:59,133
Speaker 6: movie on just to mothered them out, and chucked on

1003
00:48:59,213 --> 00:49:01,733
Speaker 6: a movie and normal normally they're they're all right, but

1004
00:49:01,973 --> 00:49:03,893
Speaker 6: one decided to throw a tantrum. So I was holding

1005
00:49:03,933 --> 00:49:05,933
Speaker 6: him my mom and a phone call came through and

1006
00:49:05,973 --> 00:49:08,213
Speaker 6: it was a random number. Normally I'm not one to

1007
00:49:08,613 --> 00:49:10,933
Speaker 6: answer them because you know, like I'm not one to answer.

1008
00:49:10,933 --> 00:49:13,973
Speaker 6: I'll just let it ring. But on on Friday, I

1009
00:49:14,053 --> 00:49:15,773
Speaker 6: remember mosst and Ray saying that, like, you'll get a

1010
00:49:15,813 --> 00:49:18,213
Speaker 6: phone call farm from either one of us to let

1011
00:49:18,253 --> 00:49:20,093
Speaker 6: you know if you're in the team. So all weekend

1012
00:49:20,133 --> 00:49:22,973
Speaker 6: I was I was real anxious about getting their phone

1013
00:49:23,013 --> 00:49:25,093
Speaker 6: call or not. And then when I came through the

1014
00:49:25,173 --> 00:49:26,693
Speaker 6: random umber, I was like, I have to pick it up,

1015
00:49:26,773 --> 00:49:28,533
Speaker 6: you know, like you never know who it is. Yeah,

1016
00:49:28,813 --> 00:49:31,133
Speaker 6: and then I picked it up. I picked it up

1017
00:49:31,173 --> 00:49:32,853
Speaker 6: and it was m Ray and he said he made

1018
00:49:32,853 --> 00:49:34,973
Speaker 6: the team. And you know, I was just overwhelmed and

1019
00:49:35,133 --> 00:49:37,653
Speaker 6: just you know, feel with joy, you know, like especially

1020
00:49:37,693 --> 00:49:39,493
Speaker 6: when it's something that you've been that you that you

1021
00:49:39,573 --> 00:49:43,013
Speaker 6: work towards throughout the season and you know, now now

1022
00:49:43,013 --> 00:49:45,213
Speaker 6: I'm here, and you know, all I can do now

1023
00:49:45,373 --> 00:49:47,253
Speaker 6: is just learn and and try to be a better

1024
00:49:47,333 --> 00:49:49,733
Speaker 6: Raguy player and be able to earn that jersey.

1025
00:49:50,093 --> 00:49:52,013
Speaker 3: Yeah, did the kids finish the movie or did you?

1026
00:49:52,333 --> 00:49:53,933
Speaker 3: Did you celebrate with him or how did that plan?

1027
00:49:54,293 --> 00:49:56,333
Speaker 6: Actually, I actually don't remember because as soon as as

1028
00:49:56,333 --> 00:49:58,053
Speaker 6: soon as you told me that I made the team.

1029
00:49:57,973 --> 00:49:59,293
Speaker 3: Like everything was just out the winters.

1030
00:49:59,293 --> 00:50:01,413
Speaker 6: I just wanted to celebrate with my family, you know,

1031
00:50:01,533 --> 00:50:03,773
Speaker 6: So went downstairs, wake up moms. He brought her up

1032
00:50:03,813 --> 00:50:06,093
Speaker 6: and I was hugging the kids, hugging her, and I

1033
00:50:06,173 --> 00:50:07,653
Speaker 6: was saying like, you know, we're here now, you know,

1034
00:50:07,813 --> 00:50:10,173
Speaker 6: but hard work starts now, you know, Like, Yeah.

1035
00:50:10,173 --> 00:50:11,733
Speaker 3: What kind of road has it been to be in

1036
00:50:11,773 --> 00:50:14,053
Speaker 3: this all black Tuesday? You take us through your rugby Jouney. Oh,

1037
00:50:14,133 --> 00:50:16,773
Speaker 3: it's been pretty rocky, you know. Like I started at

1038
00:50:16,813 --> 00:50:17,293
Speaker 3: eight first.

1039
00:50:17,453 --> 00:50:19,533
Speaker 6: I was eight when I when I moved down to Southland,

1040
00:50:19,573 --> 00:50:21,853
Speaker 6: and I think it was I was down there for

1041
00:50:21,893 --> 00:50:23,533
Speaker 6: four years. I was playing at number eight, and then

1042
00:50:23,733 --> 00:50:25,493
Speaker 6: I think my last year there in twenty twenty, we

1043
00:50:25,573 --> 00:50:29,453
Speaker 6: had lockdown and I packed on like fifteen to twenty gigs. Yeah,

1044
00:50:29,933 --> 00:50:32,053
Speaker 6: and but it was I could have easily switched the

1045
00:50:32,093 --> 00:50:34,493
Speaker 6: prop way before, but it was just getting my ego

1046
00:50:34,533 --> 00:50:37,013
Speaker 6: and check telling myself that, you know, like no number

1047
00:50:37,293 --> 00:50:38,773
Speaker 6: is jumping on line out a one hundred and forty

1048
00:50:38,813 --> 00:50:40,613
Speaker 6: clicks or running around and being able to.

1049
00:50:40,653 --> 00:50:44,613
Speaker 3: Lasted that weight. So I would have said the easiest, but.

1050
00:50:44,733 --> 00:50:48,773
Speaker 6: It was I just had to switch, you know, like,

1051
00:50:48,893 --> 00:50:50,733
Speaker 6: you know, like I had a big gut on me,

1052
00:50:50,933 --> 00:50:53,493
Speaker 6: you know, like and so once I once I made that,

1053
00:50:53,733 --> 00:50:56,253
Speaker 6: that switched the number to number three, it's I hit,

1054
00:50:56,413 --> 00:50:58,173
Speaker 6: you know, like it was. It was a it was

1055
00:50:58,173 --> 00:51:01,693
Speaker 6: a long road learning it, but big thanks I got

1056
00:51:01,733 --> 00:51:06,573
Speaker 6: big thanks to Whopper, Whopper taking taking time and you know,

1057
00:51:07,213 --> 00:51:09,253
Speaker 6: helping me perfect my craft. You know, obviously I'm not

1058
00:51:09,333 --> 00:51:12,093
Speaker 6: the perfect scrummager, but I feel like I've got way.

1059
00:51:12,573 --> 00:51:15,293
Speaker 6: I've learned heaps from him, and I've saw what heaps

1060
00:51:15,413 --> 00:51:17,373
Speaker 6: heaps way to go and off Lowey as well, try

1061
00:51:17,493 --> 00:51:20,173
Speaker 6: lone Max, because in my eyes, he's he's probably the

1062
00:51:20,213 --> 00:51:21,813
Speaker 6: best tight hit in the world at the moment. And

1063
00:51:22,333 --> 00:51:25,613
Speaker 6: learning firsthand off of mare trainings and and all. That's

1064
00:51:25,653 --> 00:51:26,293
Speaker 6: been pretty cool.

1065
00:51:26,573 --> 00:51:28,613
Speaker 3: What's it been like being being a super rugby player?

1066
00:51:28,613 --> 00:51:31,173
Speaker 3: I mean, you scored the winner against the Reds earlier

1067
00:51:31,213 --> 00:51:32,853
Speaker 3: in the season. Do you feel like you've grown over

1068
00:51:32,893 --> 00:51:35,093
Speaker 3: the last week while just sort of as a player

1069
00:51:35,133 --> 00:51:36,293
Speaker 3: and confidence everything like that.

1070
00:51:36,493 --> 00:51:37,813
Speaker 6: Yeah, I feel like that's what it was.

1071
00:51:38,253 --> 00:51:38,653
Speaker 3: Confidence.

1072
00:51:39,493 --> 00:51:41,013
Speaker 6: You know, Like the last couple of years, I just

1073
00:51:41,053 --> 00:51:42,853
Speaker 6: felt like I didn't get much game time, you know,

1074
00:51:43,013 --> 00:51:45,973
Speaker 6: like and like we had we had great TI hits,

1075
00:51:45,973 --> 00:51:47,413
Speaker 6: we had Tarau and we had Owie as well, so

1076
00:51:47,613 --> 00:51:51,613
Speaker 6: understandably that. But when my opportunity came this year, I

1077
00:51:51,813 --> 00:51:54,253
Speaker 6: just had to I had to take it of two hands,

1078
00:51:54,253 --> 00:51:57,053
Speaker 6: you know what I mean, Like, yeah, I was just

1079
00:51:57,173 --> 00:51:59,653
Speaker 6: I don't know, I wouldn't old Sales. I was pretty

1080
00:51:59,733 --> 00:52:01,653
Speaker 6: lucky to be able to get an opportunity to be

1081
00:52:01,693 --> 00:52:05,213
Speaker 6: able to jam. And you know, obviously with I wouldn't

1082
00:52:05,213 --> 00:52:07,493
Speaker 6: say it helped nothing towards Lowe, but when he got

1083
00:52:07,533 --> 00:52:09,573
Speaker 6: injured and I was starting those games, I felt like

1084
00:52:09,653 --> 00:52:11,933
Speaker 6: it helped me grow my confidence as well in starting

1085
00:52:12,013 --> 00:52:14,933
Speaker 6: because I've never I've never started for the Canes or

1086
00:52:16,653 --> 00:52:18,373
Speaker 6: or there so I was always coming off the bench.

1087
00:52:18,413 --> 00:52:20,613
Speaker 6: So once I was once I was comfortable and startying,

1088
00:52:20,653 --> 00:52:22,413
Speaker 6: you know, like being able to start and come off the.

1089
00:52:22,413 --> 00:52:24,733
Speaker 3: Bench and and just try and play good, you know.

1090
00:52:24,853 --> 00:52:25,373
Speaker 6: So it was good.

1091
00:52:25,493 --> 00:52:27,413
Speaker 3: Yeah, then we'll do us for our All Blacks chat.

1092
00:52:27,453 --> 00:52:28,893
Speaker 3: We'll take a quick break, come back and talk the

1093
00:52:28,893 --> 00:52:30,933
Speaker 3: Super Rugby Final after this. So on Rugby Direct.

1094
00:52:31,653 --> 00:52:35,693
Speaker 2: This is Rugby Direct, a podcast for real rugby fans.

1095
00:52:39,413 --> 00:52:40,453
Speaker 2: Every try, don't.

1096
00:52:40,293 --> 00:52:44,053
Speaker 3: Try and sixty six every tackle tackle get up again.

1097
00:52:47,213 --> 00:52:47,893
Speaker 4: Before time.

1098
00:52:48,053 --> 00:52:50,493
Speaker 2: It's Rugby Direct powered Buddies Talks to Me.

1099
00:52:51,013 --> 00:52:53,853
Speaker 3: Welcome back into Rugby Direct, powered by Habit Health. Second

1100
00:52:53,893 --> 00:52:57,813
Speaker 3: half of our podcast. Now let's talk the Super Rugby Final.

1101
00:52:57,853 --> 00:52:59,493
Speaker 3: We're gonna do things a little differently than we do

1102
00:52:59,533 --> 00:53:01,653
Speaker 3: in the back half of our podcast usually we'll dig

1103
00:53:01,693 --> 00:53:05,373
Speaker 3: into the Super Rugby Final. The Blues winning comfortably forty

1104
00:53:05,453 --> 00:53:09,133
Speaker 3: one ten for a tipping combine. I think we put

1105
00:53:09,173 --> 00:53:11,653
Speaker 3: a twenty five dollars point on the points on the

1106
00:53:11,733 --> 00:53:14,213
Speaker 3: line when it and so that's had another twenty five

1107
00:53:14,253 --> 00:53:16,373
Speaker 3: points for advantage. So I thought, you bet you fifty

1108
00:53:16,453 --> 00:53:18,893
Speaker 3: in the end. But it was a comprehensive win by

1109
00:53:18,973 --> 00:53:21,413
Speaker 3: the Blues. Not much you can say about the Chiefs.

1110
00:53:21,453 --> 00:53:22,573
Speaker 3: Other than the fact that they were in it for

1111
00:53:22,613 --> 00:53:24,653
Speaker 3: the first four or five minutes and then went in

1112
00:53:24,733 --> 00:53:27,493
Speaker 3: it for the remaining seventy five or at least most

1113
00:53:27,533 --> 00:53:30,333
Speaker 3: of them. That was a very, very good finals performance

1114
00:53:30,373 --> 00:53:30,933
Speaker 3: from the Blues.

1115
00:53:31,613 --> 00:53:35,293
Speaker 4: It was I guess you could say from a contest

1116
00:53:35,373 --> 00:53:37,573
Speaker 4: point of view, it was a flop yep. And I

1117
00:53:37,653 --> 00:53:41,733
Speaker 4: really felt for the hordes of Chiefs fans. Matt Cooper

1118
00:53:41,813 --> 00:53:44,213
Speaker 4: was suggesting there was going to be twenty thousand Chiefs

1119
00:53:44,293 --> 00:53:47,333
Speaker 4: fans and walking around pre match when the rain was

1120
00:53:47,413 --> 00:53:50,333
Speaker 4: falling the concourse it was packed with Chiefs fans. I

1121
00:53:50,453 --> 00:53:54,253
Speaker 4: know they had a Kingsland bar, a supporter's bar there

1122
00:53:54,533 --> 00:53:57,853
Speaker 4: that Sam Caine was at. And look, they came in

1123
00:53:57,933 --> 00:54:03,053
Speaker 4: their droves and they sat through the rain and witnessed

1124
00:54:03,693 --> 00:54:06,813
Speaker 4: a very underwhelming performance and a lot of credit to

1125
00:54:06,853 --> 00:54:10,053
Speaker 4: that has to go for the Blues. There's the weight

1126
00:54:10,133 --> 00:54:13,733
Speaker 4: of expectation would be massive, the pressure twenty one years

1127
00:54:13,773 --> 00:54:16,373
Speaker 4: without a title. There are people in Eden Park that

1128
00:54:16,533 --> 00:54:20,533
Speaker 4: wouldn't have witnessed a title in their lifetime. You know,

1129
00:54:20,653 --> 00:54:23,333
Speaker 4: it's been such a long time. But that was so

1130
00:54:23,453 --> 00:54:26,173
Speaker 4: clinical from the Blues and everything they did. They never

1131
00:54:26,253 --> 00:54:29,173
Speaker 4: really look threatened. They were up I think twenty points

1132
00:54:29,253 --> 00:54:32,053
Speaker 4: to three. The Chiefs didn't score any points for eighteen minutes.

1133
00:54:33,013 --> 00:54:37,293
Speaker 4: They stuck to their blueprint all year. Patrick Tuopolotu was

1134
00:54:37,533 --> 00:54:42,053
Speaker 4: huge coming back five weeks early from a nee ligament injury.

1135
00:54:42,613 --> 00:54:46,373
Speaker 4: And what can you say about Verne Cotter? He has

1136
00:54:46,453 --> 00:54:49,453
Speaker 4: gone where so many Blues coaches haven't you think about

1137
00:54:50,093 --> 00:54:53,813
Speaker 4: the Blues. You compare that performance to the Blues performance

1138
00:54:54,293 --> 00:54:56,613
Speaker 4: and the final two years ago against the Crusaders, Yes,

1139
00:54:56,693 --> 00:55:00,973
Speaker 4: different opposition. You compare that performance to their semi final

1140
00:55:01,053 --> 00:55:04,973
Speaker 4: flop in christ Church last year and just the mentality

1141
00:55:05,533 --> 00:55:08,173
Speaker 4: that the difference in the way they turned up and

1142
00:55:08,453 --> 00:55:11,333
Speaker 4: the way they executed. A lot of that credit has

1143
00:55:11,373 --> 00:55:11,933
Speaker 4: to go to Verne.

1144
00:55:12,013 --> 00:55:15,853
Speaker 3: Oh, it's got so And speaking to Offatonga Fasi last week,

1145
00:55:15,893 --> 00:55:17,613
Speaker 3: he said that it's probably the simplest game plan that

1146
00:55:17,653 --> 00:55:20,133
Speaker 3: he's had at the Blues. But simple work sometimes, and

1147
00:55:20,453 --> 00:55:23,173
Speaker 3: it's worked for the Blues this season. It's a very

1148
00:55:24,413 --> 00:55:26,613
Speaker 3: not necessarily spring box style I've sent compared to them,

1149
00:55:26,653 --> 00:55:29,013
Speaker 3: but it's just, you know, it's just using the Fords

1150
00:55:29,053 --> 00:55:31,253
Speaker 3: and the way that they want. They get themselves into position,

1151
00:55:31,373 --> 00:55:33,853
Speaker 3: then they just bang, bang bang. The line and trust

1152
00:55:33,893 --> 00:55:36,173
Speaker 3: that they're going to break it eventually. There's a lot

1153
00:55:36,213 --> 00:55:37,973
Speaker 3: of trust in that game plan that they're built up.

1154
00:55:38,053 --> 00:55:41,213
Speaker 3: And when was the last time the Blues scored a

1155
00:55:41,293 --> 00:55:44,173
Speaker 3: try from forty out fifty meters out? Just simply hasn't

1156
00:55:44,213 --> 00:55:46,613
Speaker 3: happened in recent time. Maybe some of the games against

1157
00:55:46,613 --> 00:55:49,533
Speaker 3: Australian position they might have squnceded long ranges. But they

1158
00:55:49,973 --> 00:55:53,653
Speaker 3: know their blueprint. It's another matter stopping it and they've

1159
00:55:53,733 --> 00:55:56,973
Speaker 3: used it as as a weapon this year off of Tonga.

1160
00:55:57,013 --> 00:55:59,133
Speaker 3: Fassi's playing some of the best rugby in his career.

1161
00:55:59,213 --> 00:56:01,493
Speaker 3: The Keta Yuani in his final season with the Blues

1162
00:56:01,933 --> 00:56:04,533
Speaker 3: has stepped up immensely, and Houstin's a two too. We

1163
00:56:04,573 --> 00:56:07,213
Speaker 3: saw the best come out of him this season as well.

1164
00:56:07,213 --> 00:56:10,213
Speaker 3: And you add An Patrick twy but lot too missed

1165
00:56:10,253 --> 00:56:11,933
Speaker 3: a lot of the season with the daw injury. Comes

1166
00:56:11,973 --> 00:56:16,173
Speaker 3: back and you know this is the semi final with

1167
00:56:16,293 --> 00:56:18,333
Speaker 3: the knee injury, comes back and plays the final in

1168
00:56:18,413 --> 00:56:21,453
Speaker 3: an inspirational man of the match performance. As I say,

1169
00:56:21,533 --> 00:56:23,973
Speaker 3: sometimes simple works and that's what the Blues have drawn

1170
00:56:24,013 --> 00:56:26,813
Speaker 3: their blueprint around this season. One thing I think the

1171
00:56:26,893 --> 00:56:28,733
Speaker 3: Chiefs knew exactly how the Blues are going to play.

1172
00:56:28,893 --> 00:56:31,053
Speaker 3: It's one thing knowing about it, it's another thing stopping it.

1173
00:56:31,133 --> 00:56:32,973
Speaker 3: And the Chiefs just didn't have any answer in the night.

1174
00:56:33,333 --> 00:56:35,013
Speaker 4: Well, everyone knew how the Blues were going to play.

1175
00:56:35,133 --> 00:56:38,933
Speaker 4: That They started that blueprint in the preseason when they

1176
00:56:38,973 --> 00:56:42,813
Speaker 4: went to Japan and carried it into their opening match

1177
00:56:42,933 --> 00:56:46,733
Speaker 4: against the Fijian dru In funga Ay and played that

1178
00:56:46,853 --> 00:56:49,453
Speaker 4: way through the whole year. They didn't deviate from the script.

1179
00:56:49,973 --> 00:56:52,613
Speaker 4: They actually used the ball more in that final, I

1180
00:56:52,693 --> 00:56:55,333
Speaker 4: felt than at other times and did it really well.

1181
00:56:55,653 --> 00:56:58,533
Speaker 4: Caleb Clark made various breaks a hat trick in the final.

1182
00:56:59,133 --> 00:57:01,493
Speaker 4: He probably needs some new spriggs because he's always fallen over,

1183
00:57:01,653 --> 00:57:05,693
Speaker 4: but what a moment for him has In nineteen ninety six,

1184
00:57:05,853 --> 00:57:08,253
Speaker 4: I think it was Ronnie Clark, his father scored a

1185
00:57:08,413 --> 00:57:10,133
Speaker 4: try when the Blues won the title. And here he

1186
00:57:10,293 --> 00:57:13,133
Speaker 4: is twenty eight years on, scoring a hat trick and

1187
00:57:13,213 --> 00:57:15,653
Speaker 4: winning a title. So there are some great stories when

1188
00:57:15,693 --> 00:57:18,733
Speaker 4: you look at a kid to Iwani as you mentioned

1189
00:57:19,093 --> 00:57:22,493
Speaker 4: Vooon coming in in his first year and it is

1190
00:57:22,693 --> 00:57:26,133
Speaker 4: nice for Auckland as a region to get that monkey

1191
00:57:26,173 --> 00:57:29,213
Speaker 4: off their back and it is going to be fascinating

1192
00:57:29,213 --> 00:57:32,093
Speaker 4: to see whether others can rise to the challenge. I

1193
00:57:32,133 --> 00:57:35,013
Speaker 4: don't think the Blues will deviate much from that blueprint.

1194
00:57:35,133 --> 00:57:39,933
Speaker 4: Next year. Can the Hurricanes, Crusaders, Chiefs come again and

1195
00:57:40,093 --> 00:57:43,693
Speaker 4: challenge them? Maybe the Reds from Australia. Looking at the Chiefs,

1196
00:57:45,213 --> 00:57:47,933
Speaker 4: they very much did feel and looked like they played

1197
00:57:47,973 --> 00:57:51,053
Speaker 4: their final the previous week against the Hurricanes and Wellington.

1198
00:57:51,493 --> 00:57:54,813
Speaker 4: I think it speaks to rugby and general tournament rugby

1199
00:57:55,453 --> 00:57:57,413
Speaker 4: about how hard it is to get up three weeks

1200
00:57:57,413 --> 00:58:01,573
Speaker 4: in a row. They smashed the Reds, they were a

1201
00:58:01,653 --> 00:58:03,733
Speaker 4: lot better than the Hurricanes and Wellington, and then they

1202
00:58:03,773 --> 00:58:06,493
Speaker 4: were miles off against the Blues. And they've now lost

1203
00:58:06,533 --> 00:58:10,093
Speaker 4: two finals in a row three in the past four years.

1204
00:58:10,133 --> 00:58:12,053
Speaker 3: They lost the Super Rugby alter had Off final in

1205
00:58:12,093 --> 00:58:13,733
Speaker 3: two each and won to the Crusaders as well.

1206
00:58:14,053 --> 00:58:17,973
Speaker 4: So in some respects they are where the Blues were

1207
00:58:18,413 --> 00:58:21,133
Speaker 4: prior to UN's arrival. So Clayton McMillon has to find

1208
00:58:21,613 --> 00:58:24,213
Speaker 4: that missing ingredient to get them over the line in

1209
00:58:24,293 --> 00:58:25,253
Speaker 4: a final. Can he do it?

1210
00:58:25,373 --> 00:58:25,533
Speaker 2: Well?

1211
00:58:26,853 --> 00:58:30,453
Speaker 3: The jury's out on that, isn't it. I thought the

1212
00:58:30,533 --> 00:58:32,253
Speaker 3: final because I still thought the Blues wuld win, But

1213
00:58:32,253 --> 00:58:33,573
Speaker 3: I thought the final be closed, and I felt like

1214
00:58:33,613 --> 00:58:35,533
Speaker 3: the Chiefs had learned some of the lessons of last year,

1215
00:58:35,533 --> 00:58:38,413
Speaker 3: where they were the best team in the regular season

1216
00:58:38,533 --> 00:58:40,333
Speaker 3: then ran out of puff at the end, and it

1217
00:58:40,373 --> 00:58:43,013
Speaker 3: felt like they just peaked at the right time, potentially

1218
00:58:43,253 --> 00:58:45,973
Speaker 3: perhaps the form team of Super Rugby going against the

1219
00:58:45,973 --> 00:58:48,133
Speaker 3: most consistent team this year in Super Rugby. But as

1220
00:58:48,173 --> 00:58:49,853
Speaker 3: it happened all the night, they just didn't have anything.

1221
00:58:49,893 --> 00:58:52,893
Speaker 3: They didn't seem to have that finals mentality. The Blues

1222
00:58:52,933 --> 00:58:56,613
Speaker 3: forwards pack out muscled the Chiefs. I thought it wasn't

1223
00:58:56,693 --> 00:58:59,933
Speaker 3: really much of a contest up front, you know, whilst

1224
00:59:00,253 --> 00:59:02,653
Speaker 3: it was a standout for the Chiefs again, but other

1225
00:59:02,733 --> 00:59:04,893
Speaker 3: than that, you try and think of standout performances from

1226
00:59:04,893 --> 00:59:07,693
Speaker 3: the Chiefs and there really weren't many. Damian McKenzie didn't

1227
00:59:07,693 --> 00:59:10,373
Speaker 3: have great border work with We've touched on Sean Stevenson

1228
00:59:10,373 --> 00:59:12,173
Speaker 3: in the first half of podcast. The back three didn't

1229
00:59:12,173 --> 00:59:15,853
Speaker 3: have a lot calling the game. I mean barely called

1230
00:59:15,853 --> 00:59:18,893
Speaker 3: Antonina Brown's name in commentary, didn't. They just didn't have

1231
00:59:18,973 --> 00:59:22,453
Speaker 3: the ball and the Blues just spallowed it up and

1232
00:59:23,133 --> 00:59:25,133
Speaker 3: knew their game plan and got their way to the

1233
00:59:25,173 --> 00:59:28,013
Speaker 3: finish line. And that was as good a Final as

1234
00:59:28,053 --> 00:59:30,573
Speaker 3: performance in a Grand Final that you could possibly want

1235
00:59:30,573 --> 00:59:31,293
Speaker 3: to see from a team.

1236
00:59:31,613 --> 00:59:34,453
Speaker 4: It was a Chiefs. The Blues forced the Chiefs to

1237
00:59:34,533 --> 00:59:37,453
Speaker 4: make something like one hundred and fifty more tackles, and

1238
00:59:38,133 --> 00:59:40,533
Speaker 4: you're not in the fight. When you're defending for that long,

1239
00:59:40,973 --> 00:59:46,293
Speaker 4: you simply can't impose any scoreboard pressure, any territorial pressure.

1240
00:59:47,213 --> 00:59:51,293
Speaker 4: You you're a battering ram. And the Blues were just

1241
00:59:51,693 --> 00:59:53,613
Speaker 4: hitting it up, one off the ruck, one off the ruck,

1242
00:59:53,813 --> 00:59:58,773
Speaker 4: pushing the Chiefs back, and that's resulted in defending for

1243
00:59:58,853 --> 01:00:02,693
Speaker 4: that long, you get frustrated, and that translated into penalties.

1244
01:00:02,733 --> 01:00:04,133
Speaker 4: They're on the wrong side of I think it was

1245
01:00:04,213 --> 01:00:07,213
Speaker 4: a twelve five penalty count Nickberry ping them off the park.

1246
01:00:07,613 --> 01:00:09,853
Speaker 4: They got a a yellow card in the second half.

1247
01:00:10,293 --> 01:00:15,653
Speaker 4: So all those things compounded frustrations, mistakes, discipline that they

1248
01:00:15,733 --> 01:00:16,573
Speaker 4: were never in the fight.

1249
01:00:17,013 --> 01:00:19,693
Speaker 3: They weren't the first four or five minutes they were

1250
01:00:19,733 --> 01:00:23,053
Speaker 3: in the fight. They forced a couple of hasty excepts

1251
01:00:23,093 --> 01:00:25,693
Speaker 3: from the Blues, and then they got a penalty and

1252
01:00:26,453 --> 01:00:28,813
Speaker 3: took the shot at goal from memory when.

1253
01:00:28,893 --> 01:00:30,373
Speaker 4: It was about fifty odd meters out.

1254
01:00:30,453 --> 01:00:34,133
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it missed, But maybe the percentage play was

1255
01:00:34,133 --> 01:00:36,533
Speaker 3: getting to the twenty two and trying to make a

1256
01:00:36,613 --> 01:00:39,133
Speaker 3: real early statement. Easier to say that in hindsight. Isn't

1257
01:00:39,133 --> 01:00:42,093
Speaker 3: it just that those kind of moments, you know, you

1258
01:00:42,173 --> 01:00:44,373
Speaker 3: get up to a five lead early, seven lead early,

1259
01:00:44,493 --> 01:00:47,533
Speaker 3: you put some pressure on the opposition three nil, Yes,

1260
01:00:47,613 --> 01:00:49,253
Speaker 3: it's a final yessu. You want points on the board.

1261
01:00:49,333 --> 01:00:51,453
Speaker 3: And as I said, easy to say this in hindsight,

1262
01:00:51,533 --> 01:00:54,653
Speaker 3: but maybe getting that scoreboard pressure, taking the crowd out

1263
01:00:54,653 --> 01:00:55,853
Speaker 3: of it early may have been the option.

1264
01:00:56,493 --> 01:00:58,733
Speaker 4: Yeah, to a degree, I do feel like it was

1265
01:00:59,293 --> 01:01:02,693
Speaker 4: written the Stars and the Blues had a composure and

1266
01:01:02,813 --> 01:01:04,773
Speaker 4: a clinical nature about them that they were always going

1267
01:01:04,853 --> 01:01:06,973
Speaker 4: to win that. But you're right at the chief score early,

1268
01:01:08,333 --> 01:01:11,253
Speaker 4: maybe there's a bit of anxiety builds. Things can change quickly,

1269
01:01:11,813 --> 01:01:14,133
Speaker 4: but it just didn't happen for them, And you're right,

1270
01:01:14,173 --> 01:01:18,933
Speaker 4: Damien McKenzie, Yes, off a poor platform, but even there's

1271
01:01:18,933 --> 01:01:22,693
Speaker 4: little things like crossfield kicks didn't go to hands. Accuracy

1272
01:01:22,973 --> 01:01:25,293
Speaker 4: was not there for the Chiefs on the biggest stage,

1273
01:01:25,533 --> 01:01:27,733
Speaker 4: and that's something that he's going to need to bring

1274
01:01:27,973 --> 01:01:30,853
Speaker 4: and improve on when he's the starting All Blacks ten

1275
01:01:30,933 --> 01:01:34,053
Speaker 4: that those are big shoes to fill for Damien in

1276
01:01:34,133 --> 01:01:34,973
Speaker 4: the next week.

1277
01:01:34,893 --> 01:01:37,733
Speaker 3: Or so they are. Let me ask you, we touched

1278
01:01:37,773 --> 01:01:39,573
Speaker 3: on the Blues and they're probably not going to deviate

1279
01:01:39,573 --> 01:01:43,253
Speaker 3: from this too much next year. A kidder Joannie is going,

1280
01:01:43,413 --> 01:01:46,733
Speaker 3: Ricco Yuanni from my understanding, is on sabbatical next year.

1281
01:01:47,533 --> 01:01:49,293
Speaker 3: So there are a couple of players that have gone,

1282
01:01:49,333 --> 01:01:52,853
Speaker 3: but otherwise you look through that team and the majority

1283
01:01:53,653 --> 01:01:55,773
Speaker 3: at this point from our understanding, going to be back

1284
01:01:55,853 --> 01:01:59,293
Speaker 3: for season twenty twenty five. I mean, do they have

1285
01:01:59,413 --> 01:02:02,973
Speaker 3: the makings of a bit of a dynasty starting here?

1286
01:02:03,013 --> 01:02:04,813
Speaker 3: I mean it's easy to say after one title, but

1287
01:02:05,373 --> 01:02:07,493
Speaker 3: do you feel like that the platforms there that they

1288
01:02:07,533 --> 01:02:10,253
Speaker 3: can build on this get some more silver aware.

1289
01:02:10,933 --> 01:02:13,133
Speaker 4: It wouldn't go as far to say at dynasty because

1290
01:02:13,293 --> 01:02:16,653
Speaker 4: I think what the Crusaders have built, and you know,

1291
01:02:16,733 --> 01:02:18,693
Speaker 4: it's really tough to see that come crumbling down.

1292
01:02:18,813 --> 01:02:20,773
Speaker 3: Special for you to say that here in christ Chips

1293
01:02:20,773 --> 01:02:22,253
Speaker 3: that they've built their dynasty.

1294
01:02:22,373 --> 01:02:25,253
Speaker 4: That I don't know if that will ever be repeated,

1295
01:02:25,973 --> 01:02:29,893
Speaker 4: you know, but look, the makings for the Blues are there.

1296
01:02:30,333 --> 01:02:35,093
Speaker 4: Cameras sorry for steps into a Kiddawana's shoes, very similar

1297
01:02:36,333 --> 01:02:40,933
Speaker 4: physical composition type player, and they've also got Anton Signa

1298
01:02:41,093 --> 01:02:43,973
Speaker 4: and Adrian Choates so some real depth and the loose forwards.

1299
01:02:44,733 --> 01:02:47,293
Speaker 4: They've got Bryce Heim who came off the bench. He

1300
01:02:47,413 --> 01:02:50,053
Speaker 4: was injured at the back end of the year. I

1301
01:02:50,173 --> 01:02:52,973
Speaker 4: suspect you'll go one more, so you know there's cover

1302
01:02:53,133 --> 01:02:56,813
Speaker 4: there for Rico Iwani. They've got depth right across the

1303
01:02:56,893 --> 01:03:00,813
Speaker 4: park so that they're not losing any big pieces. Vern Stain.

1304
01:03:01,213 --> 01:03:03,853
Speaker 4: That coaching team's remaining intact and it is a very

1305
01:03:03,933 --> 01:03:06,373
Speaker 4: high powered coaching team outside of her, and we've talked

1306
01:03:06,373 --> 01:03:10,173
Speaker 4: about all Paul Tito, grig Feak, Jason o'haller and Dan

1307
01:03:10,253 --> 01:03:13,493
Speaker 4: Helen Gahu, so all the pieces are there and they

1308
01:03:13,533 --> 01:03:15,693
Speaker 4: are let's not let's be real as well. From a

1309
01:03:15,773 --> 01:03:19,613
Speaker 4: recruitment and financial perspective, the Blues are better off than

1310
01:03:19,693 --> 01:03:23,093
Speaker 4: anyone else in this competition, so they are very well

1311
01:03:23,293 --> 01:03:25,213
Speaker 4: set up to sustain success well.

1312
01:03:25,293 --> 01:03:27,533
Speaker 3: For a number of seasons, that wasn't the case though,

1313
01:03:27,613 --> 01:03:29,653
Speaker 3: wasn't it. There was all sorts of excuses about how

1314
01:03:29,693 --> 01:03:31,213
Speaker 3: no one wanted to live in Auckland because you can't

1315
01:03:31,213 --> 01:03:33,253
Speaker 3: buy a house there. It's too hard to commuse. It's

1316
01:03:33,493 --> 01:03:36,253
Speaker 3: da da da da da. The team can't win. Funny

1317
01:03:36,293 --> 01:03:39,453
Speaker 3: how winning sort of fixes everything in that regard and

1318
01:03:39,573 --> 01:03:42,773
Speaker 3: this is going to make a more attractive proposition. I mean,

1319
01:03:43,653 --> 01:03:46,013
Speaker 3: you know, they don't necessarily need to recruit, but if

1320
01:03:46,013 --> 01:03:48,213
Speaker 3: they do, you know, they're right back at the top

1321
01:03:48,253 --> 01:03:50,813
Speaker 3: of the table in terms of, you know, making those

1322
01:03:50,893 --> 01:03:53,653
Speaker 3: pictures to players coming through. You know, they've lost a

1323
01:03:53,693 --> 01:03:55,213
Speaker 3: lot of players through the years from the one A

1324
01:03:55,373 --> 01:03:58,733
Speaker 3: program that have gone elsewhere and found success. So that's

1325
01:03:58,813 --> 01:04:02,213
Speaker 3: the you know, winning winning a title can sort of

1326
01:04:02,253 --> 01:04:05,813
Speaker 3: paper over some of those things. Zaran Sullivan's an interesting one.

1327
01:04:06,053 --> 01:04:08,373
Speaker 3: Hasn't re signed with the Blues for next year. I

1328
01:04:08,453 --> 01:04:12,533
Speaker 3: imagine all four potentially other franchises are having a look

1329
01:04:12,573 --> 01:04:15,533
Speaker 3: and maybe trying to get him down. They're so interesting

1330
01:04:15,533 --> 01:04:17,853
Speaker 3: to see where that he stays on board. But look,

1331
01:04:18,093 --> 01:04:21,213
Speaker 3: they're well set up, aren't they for future success?

1332
01:04:21,813 --> 01:04:24,693
Speaker 4: They are, and that's probably the only players that they

1333
01:04:24,773 --> 01:04:28,933
Speaker 4: do lose, guys that are established and aren't getting the

1334
01:04:28,973 --> 01:04:30,973
Speaker 4: game time they're looking for. Enzan's one of those guys.

1335
01:04:31,053 --> 01:04:34,053
Speaker 4: Boden Barratt coming back into the mix next year is

1336
01:04:34,773 --> 01:04:38,613
Speaker 4: very interesting dynamic in terms of where he slots and

1337
01:04:38,813 --> 01:04:43,933
Speaker 4: how that affects the dynamic. And for a guy like Zan,

1338
01:04:44,573 --> 01:04:48,093
Speaker 4: he is probably better off going elsewhere, So does he

1339
01:04:48,213 --> 01:04:53,853
Speaker 4: take the leap of faith like Jacob Ratamvuki Nipkins and others.

1340
01:04:54,013 --> 01:04:58,693
Speaker 4: You know, Swani vakna at hooker hasn't been cited in

1341
01:04:58,853 --> 01:05:02,613
Speaker 4: recent times, and there are a litany of examples on

1342
01:05:02,973 --> 01:05:06,053
Speaker 4: the fringe of that Blue squads who may be looking

1343
01:05:06,093 --> 01:05:10,053
Speaker 4: at the Highlanders or the Crusaders or any other team

1344
01:05:11,013 --> 01:05:13,653
Speaker 4: to go and push their claims because ultimately, if you

1345
01:05:13,693 --> 01:05:17,333
Speaker 4: want to be pushing for Horror honors or any rugging player.

1346
01:05:17,133 --> 01:05:20,493
Speaker 3: Wants to play, Yeah, they do and they want those opportunities.

1347
01:05:20,533 --> 01:05:21,933
Speaker 3: So it's going to be fascinating to see where he

1348
01:05:22,213 --> 01:05:26,133
Speaker 3: ends up and what other transfers there might be around.

1349
01:05:26,373 --> 01:05:29,413
Speaker 3: The few whispers around. I think suwadi Va Kenna leaving

1350
01:05:29,493 --> 01:05:31,933
Speaker 3: to potentially go the Highlanders kle Tank Tower on the

1351
01:05:32,013 --> 01:05:34,373
Speaker 3: way as well, So there will be some change, but

1352
01:05:34,453 --> 01:05:38,173
Speaker 3: those are players that are in the background, deepen the

1353
01:05:38,213 --> 01:05:41,173
Speaker 3: squad rather than being the first choice players. So yeah,

1354
01:05:41,293 --> 01:05:44,293
Speaker 3: been a fascinating Super Rugby season and roll on twenty

1355
01:05:44,333 --> 01:05:44,973
Speaker 3: twenty five.

1356
01:05:45,533 --> 01:05:47,533
Speaker 4: That's right, and I guess changes in the works with

1357
01:05:47,813 --> 01:05:51,093
Speaker 4: the drawer and the finals format and a new champion

1358
01:05:51,253 --> 01:05:53,453
Speaker 4: for the first time in eight years, and I think

1359
01:05:53,733 --> 01:05:55,373
Speaker 4: you know it's fair to say New Zealand's pretty happy

1360
01:05:55,373 --> 01:05:55,693
Speaker 4: about it.

1361
01:05:56,053 --> 01:06:00,893
Speaker 3: Yeah, Australia less. So they'll figure it out. They'll figure

1362
01:06:00,893 --> 01:06:03,213
Speaker 3: it out eventually. We'll have an Australian champion again one

1363
01:06:03,253 --> 01:06:05,573
Speaker 3: day and Super Rugby wont me before this all winds up?

1364
01:06:06,253 --> 01:06:10,013
Speaker 4: Maybe? Maybe what about the kebnets here? Are they any chance.

1365
01:06:10,093 --> 01:06:12,293
Speaker 3: They've still they've still got the Super Rugby or one

1366
01:06:12,333 --> 01:06:13,893
Speaker 3: that's still got that count?

1367
01:06:14,213 --> 01:06:14,373
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1368
01:06:14,653 --> 01:06:17,173
Speaker 3: Yes, the other Super still got I think they won

1369
01:06:17,213 --> 01:06:19,853
Speaker 3: the last Super fourteen. Mate, we'll find out some big

1370
01:06:19,893 --> 01:06:21,693
Speaker 3: holes there. You can't win it for a year. They'll

1371
01:06:21,693 --> 01:06:24,093
Speaker 3: get back the Hurricanes one of the places. How's the

1372
01:06:24,173 --> 01:06:24,693
Speaker 3: Hurricanes one?

1373
01:06:25,373 --> 01:06:29,413
Speaker 4: Oh? Look, you know Clark lade Laer. We trust it's

1374
01:06:29,493 --> 01:06:34,133
Speaker 4: been an above expectations year and there's a lot of young,

1375
01:06:34,213 --> 01:06:38,293
Speaker 4: dynamic talent artists coming back and Title town's on the

1376
01:06:38,333 --> 01:06:39,493
Speaker 4: way to Wellington.

1377
01:06:39,213 --> 01:06:41,693
Speaker 3: If you say so right? That'll do us for rugby

1378
01:06:41,853 --> 01:06:44,253
Speaker 3: direct from our Christ will be back next week ahead

1379
01:06:44,293 --> 01:06:46,853
Speaker 3: the first teast against England. Have yourself, it's a good week.

1380
01:06:46,853 --> 01:06:48,893
Speaker 3: I thanks to Last and Bars English and also to

1381
01:06:49,253 --> 01:06:49,973
Speaker 3: Habit Health.

1382
01:06:54,453 --> 01:06:57,373
Speaker 1: For more from News Talks b listen live on air

1383
01:06:57,613 --> 01:07:00,253
Speaker 1: or online and keep our shows with you wherever you

1384
01:07:00,373 --> 01:07:02,733
Speaker 1: go with our podcast on iHeartRadio,