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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Saturday Morning with Jack Team podcast

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Speaker 1: from News Talks at BE.

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Speaker 2: Sustainability expert Kate Hall has had a pretty crazy couple

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Speaker 2: of months. She has been expecting a baby. She's had

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Speaker 2: a baby daughter Orchard, and you might remember that before

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Speaker 2: going into labor, Kate had a whole set of plans

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Speaker 2: about how she would try and maintain her sustainability ethos

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Speaker 2: heading into motherhood. Top of the list for me, the

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Speaker 2: one that stuck out to most of us was her

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Speaker 2: plan to try and introduce the elimination method, which basically

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Speaker 2: means teaching your baby to teaching your baby to be

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Speaker 2: toilet trained as soon as possible, essentially going round a

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Speaker 2: lot of the time without using nappies. Anyway, this is

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Speaker 2: the first time that we've chatted to Kate Hall in

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Speaker 2: a week while she's with us this morning. Great to

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Speaker 2: have you back on the show. Good morning, good morning.

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Speaker 3: Hello.

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Speaker 2: This is the first time we have chatted since you

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Speaker 2: have expanded your family. Congratulations, how you doing.

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Speaker 3: Thank you. I am actually doing really well. You know, parents,

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Speaker 3: you don't have.

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Speaker 2: To say, you don't have to yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, no, but I genuinely mean it. I genuinely mean it.

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Speaker 3: At one moment.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, okay, in this moment. Yes, as you say,

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Speaker 2: there are ups and downs that I know many people

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Speaker 2: will relate to, So give us that. What has what

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Speaker 2: has surprised you about motherhood so far?

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Speaker 3: In many ways? I mean, every day has a surprise,

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Speaker 3: but in many ways it is easier than I expected.

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Speaker 2: Oh my god, no, no, no, I.

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Speaker 3: Have I have a caveat. I have a little asterisk

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Speaker 3: and little side note to that because I have my

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Speaker 3: parents close by, and because I have a supportive partner.

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Speaker 3: I honestly every day I just sit in awe of

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Speaker 3: how do people do this on their own? So I

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Speaker 3: literally just don't know. They are superheroes. So that has

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Speaker 3: surprised me with how much I need other people and

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Speaker 3: how hard to ask for help. But I'm getting better at.

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Speaker 2: That, So that's so good.

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Speaker 3: It's been a big surprise, but a lovely one to

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Speaker 3: be like, Oh, I have a community around me I

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Speaker 3: can call on.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, that makes a massive difference. So before you

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Speaker 2: ducked off to become a mum, we talked about your

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Speaker 2: kind of preparation and the ways in which you were

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Speaker 2: trying to bring your sustainability philosophy to motherhood. And I

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Speaker 2: remember one big plan ahead of every every other and

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Speaker 2: that was your plan to be very considerate about when

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Speaker 2: you use nappies and try and pack up on your

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Speaker 2: child's signals, yes, for when they wanted to go to

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Speaker 2: the toilet. And I can remember thinking, you know, what,

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Speaker 2: power to UK because I am not doing that. But

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Speaker 2: how's that gone so far?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so, just to preface, my child always bears a nappy, right, Okay,

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Speaker 3: so she always had the back up, like I'm not

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Speaker 3: going to come around to someone's house and just lie

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Speaker 3: and be like if they go, they go, you know. Okay,

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Speaker 3: we have neppees currently has one reusual neppies from day one,

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Speaker 3: but again that's because I have support from my partner

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Speaker 3: and stuff.

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Speaker 2: So reusable are you've got the old cloth ones that

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Speaker 2: you kind of stew in a bucket of nappy sand

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Speaker 2: or something.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so not the whole clean cloth nephis is a

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Speaker 3: really cool space for knowing how to wash them. But yeah,

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Speaker 3: we just use a cloth and then there's a cool

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Speaker 3: little snappy thing. We're kind of like old school safety pins,

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Speaker 3: so they used to eat, so we just use it's

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Speaker 3: pretty much just a square piece of fabric when she

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Speaker 3: was tiny tiny, But now we use a variety of

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Speaker 3: reusable nephies, which I'm going to be reviewing on my

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Speaker 3: website and stuff in the future. But the elimination communication thing,

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Speaker 3: I remember we had a chat and I genuinely like

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Speaker 3: I was quite nervous to say it out loud on air,

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Speaker 3: because that's really daunting to, you know, to commit to

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Speaker 3: something before you know how it's going to go. However,

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Speaker 3: even though I was prepared for it to fail, and

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Speaker 3: I just kind of rolling my eyes at myself, it

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Speaker 3: has gone brilliantly and my child has she's you know,

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Speaker 3: even at six weeks old, she did a four hour

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Speaker 3: sleep stretch and had a dry napion and as I

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Speaker 3: picked her up, and I had kind of watched her

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Speaker 3: cues and knew roughly, you know, when humans wake up

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Speaker 3: from asleep, we often go to the toilet first, So

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Speaker 3: I offered the potty to her and she went poos

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Speaker 3: and wheeze and went back to sleep.

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Speaker 2: So that's great. Is there any possibility that was just

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Speaker 2: a fluke?

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Speaker 3: No, because it's happened at least six times.

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Speaker 2: Wow, Okay, yeah, that's really good. And I mean you

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Speaker 2: were pretty clear when you were talking about elimination communication

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Speaker 2: that you didn't think it was going to work instantly.

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Speaker 2: It's not like they come out the womb immediately like

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Speaker 2: oh yeah, hey mam, I'm just gonna get other loo

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Speaker 2: like that. It's kind of something you build towards. I

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Speaker 2: remember too, like we got a few texts of people

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Speaker 2: being like, okay, streaming, but we actually t people being

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Speaker 2: like this is how until you know, thirty years ago,

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Speaker 2: forty years ago, this is how children were, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 3: Well you think what did they do before nappies? You know,

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Speaker 3: like I found an old school as your friend sent

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Speaker 3: a picture of old school plunket book from like the

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Speaker 3: nineteen sixties, and in it it was telling mothers because

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Speaker 3: mothers are the people who the main key givers, then

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Speaker 3: saying mothers hold your baby out over a piece of newspaper. Wow,

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Speaker 3: so and other cultures like this isn't you you know,

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Speaker 3: we call it elimination communication, but that's kind of what

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Speaker 3: we're like, you know, we're trying to call it in

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Speaker 3: the Western world, and really it's just you know, if

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Speaker 3: my child wants feeding, like like you with your child too, Jack,

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Speaker 3: it's you know, when they're hungry right, you've had months

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Speaker 3: of knowing their cues. But also especially when you know

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Speaker 3: a mother has had months of the baby being inside them.

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Speaker 3: It was so Orchard was born. Orchard is the name

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Speaker 3: of my daughter. I know it's weird. Well we'll go

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Speaker 3: with that's she was born on a Thursday night. And

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Speaker 3: then on Saturday morning, I woke up and you know,

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Speaker 3: I'm just delirious. I've just given birth. I'm in hospital,

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Speaker 3: and I remembered, I remembered our conversation. I remembered the

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Speaker 3: books I'd read about elimination communication, and I thought, well,

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Speaker 3: I need to go to the toilet right now. So

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Speaker 3: I picked her up and I held her over the

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Speaker 3: potty and I caught her first pernui.

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Speaker 1: Weird.

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Speaker 2: No, it's not, it's not, it's not. It's amazing, like, honestly, no,

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Speaker 2: you do you that's my attitude, thank you? Yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I'm really supportive of it, you know, And I think

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Speaker 2: it's amazing you've done this. And I think, you know,

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Speaker 2: in just a matter of time that's going to pass.

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Speaker 2: Before you know it, you are going to be feeling

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Speaker 2: so good because your heart is going to be away

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Speaker 2: before mine.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, well, people, people keep saying, Oh my gosh,

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Speaker 3: you know, I'd love to do that, but just and

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Speaker 3: I understand if you had other kids around, it would

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Speaker 3: be really hard, especially if you were going to like

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Speaker 3: try it first off. But for me, I feel like

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Speaker 3: I'm the lazy person because when you have a newborn,

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Speaker 3: you're holding them lots anyway. And so instead of holding

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Speaker 3: her and is watching her going her nappy, I hold

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Speaker 3: her over a vessel or a toilet so I don't

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Speaker 3: have to being twean something, so her skin's much better.

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Speaker 3: I wash way less nappies, like about half the amount.

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Speaker 3: It costs nothing, you know, like just hold them over

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Speaker 3: a toilet. I was at my sister's house after going

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Speaker 3: to the zoo on Thursday, and I was like, oh,

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Speaker 3: she want go weez. So I held her over my

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Speaker 3: sister's toilet and she peed and my sister stood there going,

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Speaker 3: who there? Care you?

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Speaker 2: That is amazing? I mean, yeah, yeah, it is. It

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Speaker 2: really is incredible. Okay, well done? Well what else is

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Speaker 2: you know? Heading heading into this, you were, you know,

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Speaker 2: thinking about the stuff you'd actually need. You were thinking

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Speaker 2: about polite ways in which to decline hand me down

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Speaker 2: to that kind of thing. Has your philosophy around sustainable parenting,

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Speaker 2: especially in these early weeks and months. Has that been

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Speaker 2: altered at all now that it's all real.

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Speaker 3: I think like my values have stayed the same. So

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Speaker 3: I've tried really hard. Like I think a lot of

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Speaker 3: people rightly so looked at me and thought, well, you know,

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Speaker 3: just few waits until you have a baby. But I

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Speaker 3: have tried hard over the last eight years to instill

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Speaker 3: my own values. So my instinct is to stick to those.

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Speaker 3: And I find when I go, oh, you know, I'll

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Speaker 3: just I'll just do that, I'll just you know, kind

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Speaker 3: of succome to like and ignore my instincts. That's been

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Speaker 3: the rails fall off. Yeah, So I find like, even

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Speaker 3: even with her clothes at the start, I had all

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Speaker 3: secondhand clothes. I've not bought her clothes, only a few

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Speaker 3: ones from the trashop, and I had them all out

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Speaker 3: in her caddie like you know, all rolled them all,

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Speaker 3: roll them all up, which doesn't last very long. But

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Speaker 3: I've actually realized I just want to grab like one

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Speaker 3: pair of pants, and I don't want to look at

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Speaker 3: all the different colors, and I don't want to have

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Speaker 3: to decide it's the decision fatigue. Yeah, so there's lots

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Speaker 3: of thoughts going through my mind. SOEP prefervation is a thing.

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Speaker 3: But I just now have a casual wardrobe for her

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Speaker 3: and it works really well because I'm doing the washing

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Speaker 3: a lot anyway, because I have riya'sball nappies and I'm

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Speaker 3: so grateful, you know, all of the second hand clothes

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Speaker 3: that she has, but I just don't need as much.

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Speaker 3: So going into it, I thought I've got these second hand,

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Speaker 3: but actually I just don't. I still don't need them,

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Speaker 3: so I'm going to distribute all of those things to

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Speaker 3: other parents.

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Speaker 2: Yeah right, Oh, good for you. That's great. Yeah, it'll

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Speaker 2: be really interesting over the next couple of months to

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Speaker 2: kind of plot this. Obviously a lot changes in a

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Speaker 2: short period of time, So yeah, I be intriguing to

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Speaker 2: see how the kind of things you thought were easy

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Speaker 2: would be harder and as well.

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Speaker 3: Yes, exactly. And I do have eleven disposal nappies literally

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Speaker 3: sitting right there.

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Speaker 2: You monster, I know, Oh my gosh.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I actually like I want to use like I

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Speaker 3: said to my family and friends, if you want to

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Speaker 3: use disposals, you know, like just by the by the disposables,

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Speaker 3: like if you're going to care for my child, you know.

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Speaker 3: So it's about keeping a realistic perspective and actually just

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Speaker 3: being like, Okay, what do I need right now? I

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Speaker 3: need to sleep, I need the basics, and just yeah,

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Speaker 3: kind of not holding on to your values and aligning

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Speaker 3: them too hard because that makes you for disaster.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Oh well, look, congratulations Kate. It's so good to chat.

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Speaker 2: We can't wait to see how this goes over the

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Speaker 2: next week while. But congratulations on the arrival of Ward.

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Speaker 3: Thank you so much.

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Speaker 2: That is Kate hall our sustainability. But honestly, good on her.

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Speaker 2: Good on Kate. You know, there were there were a

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Speaker 2: few people who said, nah, Kate, you're absolutely dreaming, and

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Speaker 2: I don't. I just think it sounds like she's doing

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Speaker 2: such an amazing job. And you know, all credit to her.

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Speaker 2: Jack says Camella. My wife's from Uzbekistan and did the

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Speaker 2: same thing. The kids were tailet trained by two years old.

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Speaker 2: Jack were born in the sixties. My mother used cloth nappies.

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Speaker 2: My mother was born in the forties and she had

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Speaker 2: cloth nappies used on her. I used cloth nappies on

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Speaker 2: my two in the nineties. This is nothing new. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I mean, we had cloth nappies when I was a

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Speaker 2: kid as well. Cloth nappies are definitely not new. I

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Speaker 2: mean the elimination method given the like if you had

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Speaker 2: to think about it as a percentage of incomes, right,

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Speaker 2: so there's a percentage of incomes. I think disposable nappies

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Speaker 2: are much more, not much more, but are more affordable

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Speaker 2: today than they were in the past. Like I remember

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Speaker 2: Mum saying to us that disposable nappies existed when I

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Speaker 2: was a baby, but my parents can't afford them, especially

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Speaker 2: with four kids, Like they're really expensive, and so they

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Speaker 2: probably have become less expensive relative to the average wage.

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Speaker 2: That being said, the number of households that have two

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Speaker 2: peer it's working and have to have two parents working

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Speaker 2: today just to tick over the bills and stuff compared

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Speaker 2: to you know, decades past is also probably a lot higher.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, I think Kate is doing an incredible job,

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Speaker 2: So thank you for that. Ninety two ninety two If

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Speaker 2: you want to send us a message as well. Jacket

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Speaker 2: Newstalks dB dot co dot nz.

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Speaker 1: For more from Saturday Morning with Jack Tame. Listen live

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Speaker 1: to Newstalks EDB from nine am Saturday, or follow the

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Speaker 1: podcast on iHeartRadio,