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Speaker 1: Bryan Bridge after four News Talk ce B.

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Speaker 2: Trump's advisors are on the way to Saudi Arabia as

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Speaker 2: we speak to begin negotiations with Russia to end the

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Speaker 2: war in Ukraine.

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Speaker 1: But Ukraine itself is being left out. European leaders are

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Speaker 1: mythed no invite for them either. They're having a crisis

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Speaker 1: summit in Paris in a few hours instead. Jeffrey Price

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Speaker 1: is a former Special Council for International Affairs in the

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Speaker 1: US Department of Defense. He has been part of negotiations

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Speaker 1: with Russia and he's with me. Good afternoon, Good afternoon,

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Speaker 1: thanks for being with me. Do you not out a

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Speaker 1: deal without Ukraine even being in the room.

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Speaker 3: I doubt that they will get to a deal without

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Speaker 3: Ukraine being part of it. And this is very early days.

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Speaker 3: I mean normally, when I was involved in a negotiation

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Speaker 3: like this, we would get everybody together at the White House,

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Speaker 3: agree of strategy and a message, and then talk to

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Speaker 3: the allies and then go and negotiate with the Russians.

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Speaker 3: But a lot of it seems to be coming out

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Speaker 3: sort of a piecemeal here, and the Ukrainians and the

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Speaker 3: Russians are very far apart right now, so it seems

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Speaker 3: to me that unless we get more pressure on Russia,

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Speaker 3: it's going to be hard to get to something which

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Speaker 3: is acceptable to both sides.

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Speaker 1: America is supplying a huge amount of money and weapons, though.

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Speaker 2: They have quite a bit of influence, presumably can they

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Speaker 2: not just you know, I mean they hold all the

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Speaker 2: clouds down there.

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Speaker 3: Well, the United States has been providing the bulk of

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Speaker 3: the military assistance, the Europeans actually the bulk of the

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Speaker 3: economic assistance, so it's been sort of a balance there.

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Speaker 3: But President Trump has said he wants to end the

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Speaker 3: war really quickly, so that gives him, yes, quite quite

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Speaker 3: a bit of influence. But the problem is that putin.

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Speaker 3: You know, when you give putin a gift, it's not

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Speaker 3: like Valentine's Day and you expect something in return. He

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Speaker 3: thinks it's Christmas and just wants more concessions. So I

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Speaker 3: think we need to be in a position where we

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Speaker 3: can put incentives on the table where he fears that

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Speaker 3: there's more military assistance coming, maybe more sanctions, And that's

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Speaker 3: what we're going to have to see in Saudi Arabia

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Speaker 3: in the next few weeks.

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Speaker 2: You've dealt with obviously, you've said you've dealt with the

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Speaker 2: Russians before that, agreed to deals before and then they

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Speaker 2: have wofd them back plenty of times.

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Speaker 1: If it works, how long will it last.

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Speaker 3: So it seems to me that negotiating from a position

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Speaker 3: and strength is important one to get a deal, but

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Speaker 3: two to keep a deal. To your point, because if

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Speaker 3: Russia has its way and Ukraine is in a very

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Speaker 3: weak position, that just makes it more likely that the

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Speaker 3: world will start again. So any lasting deal is going

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Speaker 3: to have to have very substantial security guarantees. It's going

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Speaker 3: to have to leave Ukraine in a military position where

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Speaker 3: it can deter more aggression. And that's what's being talked

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Speaker 3: about not just between the Americans and the Russians right now,

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Speaker 3: but also among the Europeans themselves. And there's going to

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Speaker 3: have to be a conversation between the Americans and the

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Speaker 3: Europeans about what kind of a force is gonna is

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Speaker 3: going to be available to guarantee any solution, if there

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Speaker 3: is one, because at the I think it's stick to

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Speaker 3: get one soon.

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Speaker 2: At the moment the White House is saying nothing. America

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Speaker 2: won't help with that. You know, NATO won't be helping

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Speaker 2: with that. So do you think they'll have to actually

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Speaker 2: to make this work, to make this long lasting, they're

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Speaker 2: going to have to get involved.

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Speaker 3: It seems to me that there's going to have to

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Speaker 3: be a NATO element to a credible force. That's my opinion.

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Speaker 3: I mean, in the war in Bosnia, the last time

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Speaker 3: we had a major war in Europe, you saw a

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Speaker 3: fairly ineffective European peacekeeping force led by the UN that

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Speaker 3: wasn't able to keep the peace. It was replaced by

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Speaker 3: a very effective name lead force, which in that case

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Speaker 3: did have about a one third American participation. That's a

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Speaker 3: model of how to make a military force that works.

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Speaker 3: Now Trump has said that we won't be sort of

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Speaker 3: directly involved, but it seems to me that any European

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Speaker 3: force that's going to have credibility, it would be best

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Speaker 3: if it was organized on a need be model.

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Speaker 2: Fascinating stuff. Jeffrey, thank you very much for your input.

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Speaker 2: Jeffrey Price, former Special Council for International Affairs in the

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Speaker 2: US Department of Defense. He's been there at the table

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Speaker 2: with the Russians beforce. He knows a thing or two

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Speaker 2: about what he's talking about.

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