1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,279 Speaker 1: The government is halting all pay equity claims. It's overhauling 2 00:00:03,360 --> 00:00:05,960 Speaker 1: the system and so all thirty three current claims will 3 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:08,680 Speaker 1: be stopped and we'll have to reapply under these new rules. Now, 4 00:00:08,720 --> 00:00:12,320 Speaker 1: this has sparked significant criticism from unions and opposition parties. Today, 5 00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:15,319 Speaker 1: Brook van Belden is the Workplace Relations Minister and with 6 00:00:15,440 --> 00:00:16,360 Speaker 1: us Now, Hey Brooke. 7 00:00:17,200 --> 00:00:21,320 Speaker 2: Hello Heather, what's brought this on? Well, when I first 8 00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:24,079 Speaker 2: entered into government, I made it really clear to the 9 00:00:24,079 --> 00:00:27,400 Speaker 2: Prime Minister and to my cabinet colleagues that I wanted 10 00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:30,720 Speaker 2: to potentially see some changes to the Equal Pay Act 11 00:00:30,840 --> 00:00:34,239 Speaker 2: to make the pay equity system more robust and more 12 00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:37,720 Speaker 2: workable and sustainable. It became clear to me at the 13 00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:40,760 Speaker 2: end of last year that there was appetite within my 14 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:44,839 Speaker 2: cabinet to do this, and you know, I think it's 15 00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:47,920 Speaker 2: pretty clear that there was impetus and so that's what's 16 00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:48,839 Speaker 2: making the change. 17 00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:51,600 Speaker 1: How many of the thirty three that are currently underway 18 00:00:51,640 --> 00:00:54,400 Speaker 1: will qualify do you think to reapply under the new rules. 19 00:00:56,040 --> 00:00:59,279 Speaker 2: It's really hard to say. Everyone would have to bring 20 00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:02,240 Speaker 2: a claim based on the merits of their arguments under 21 00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:05,280 Speaker 2: the new thresholds, and so I can't speak for if 22 00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:08,560 Speaker 2: all of them would be successful or whether or not 23 00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:11,440 Speaker 2: they would have merit, But that's what is designed by 24 00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:13,880 Speaker 2: this new system, is that they would have to prove 25 00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:17,200 Speaker 2: that there's seventy percent of the workforce are female, that's 26 00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:21,200 Speaker 2: been female dominated for ten years and been historically dominated, 27 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:24,640 Speaker 2: and that they can find comparators either within that same 28 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:29,440 Speaker 2: workforce or within the same sector that has a male 29 00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:32,920 Speaker 2: dominated profession. So they have been discriminated against, so when 30 00:01:32,959 --> 00:01:34,160 Speaker 2: you comparison. 31 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:35,839 Speaker 1: To them, so it has to be within the same sector. 32 00:01:35,880 --> 00:01:39,039 Speaker 1: This will stop the librarians, for example, comparing themselves to 33 00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:40,160 Speaker 1: transport engineers. 34 00:01:41,319 --> 00:01:43,840 Speaker 2: That's exactly right. You know, we've seen some claims where 35 00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:47,880 Speaker 2: you've got adminent clerical staff comparing themselves to mechanical engineers, 36 00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:52,480 Speaker 2: and social workers comparing themselves to air traffic controllers. And 37 00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:55,280 Speaker 2: I'm bringing a little bit more reality back to what 38 00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 2: we're seeing under pay equity that we want to look 39 00:01:58,200 --> 00:02:01,400 Speaker 2: at genuine gender based discrept emination, and that means starting 40 00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:04,080 Speaker 2: at home, looking at with your within your own workforce, 41 00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:06,560 Speaker 2: and if you can't find that within your own company, 42 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:10,799 Speaker 2: looking at similar companies, and then looking within the industry. 43 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:13,600 Speaker 2: But we shouldn't be fishing for gender based discrimination. 44 00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:15,920 Speaker 1: How much are you saving as a result of this? 45 00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:21,160 Speaker 2: Oh, look, I can't get into specific numbers, but I know. 46 00:02:21,960 --> 00:02:24,480 Speaker 1: I've heard that you are saving more than ten billion 47 00:02:24,520 --> 00:02:26,240 Speaker 1: dollars over four years. Is that wrong? 48 00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:31,480 Speaker 2: What I can say is that there will be billions 49 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:33,200 Speaker 2: of dollars of savings, because if. 50 00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:35,480 Speaker 1: You're not denying it rocks. If you're not denying that 51 00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:37,480 Speaker 1: it's ten billion dollars over four years, I'm going to 52 00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:39,920 Speaker 1: assume it's more than ten billion dollars over four years. 53 00:02:39,919 --> 00:02:43,839 Speaker 2: You know that. Ah, I do know you hear there. 54 00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:47,240 Speaker 2: But look, I don't have the ability to say what 55 00:02:47,280 --> 00:02:51,720 Speaker 2: the specific budget figures are. What is it? Is it significant? 56 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:55,800 Speaker 1: Is it the biggest the single biggest saving in budget 57 00:02:55,800 --> 00:02:56,800 Speaker 1: twenty twenty five? 58 00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:01,440 Speaker 2: Look, I can't confirm that either. But I can tell 59 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:04,640 Speaker 2: you that there will be savings in the magnitude of billions, 60 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:06,960 Speaker 2: and that there will be a significant reduction in the 61 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:09,160 Speaker 2: cost of the crown. But I also do want to 62 00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:11,520 Speaker 2: make it clear that it's not my overriding reason for 63 00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:14,960 Speaker 2: doing this. I genuinely believe that there have been errors 64 00:03:15,040 --> 00:03:19,840 Speaker 2: in our pay equity system that need resolving. Tightening those comparators, 65 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:24,080 Speaker 2: making sure that we're focusing on genuine gender based discrimination, 66 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:27,680 Speaker 2: not things like changes to inflation, changes to labor market 67 00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:32,240 Speaker 2: forces between industries. This is about discrimination between men and women, 68 00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:34,560 Speaker 2: and I do support us resolve in that issue. 69 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:37,200 Speaker 1: If this isn't being done for the budget, why are 70 00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:39,400 Speaker 1: you doing it under urgency today? Like if you actually 71 00:03:39,480 --> 00:03:41,680 Speaker 1: genuinely had believed and I don't doubt that you did, 72 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:44,520 Speaker 1: but why haven't you done it previous, previously or you know, 73 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:45,320 Speaker 1: after the budget. 74 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:49,440 Speaker 2: Oh, there's a couple of reasons. It was clear that 75 00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:52,080 Speaker 2: you know, I had support at this particular juncture in 76 00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:55,040 Speaker 2: time from a cross cabinet to get my work done. 77 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:59,800 Speaker 2: That's also true. But there's also the case that I 78 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:02,640 Speaker 2: want to have two different systems running exactly at the 79 00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:06,680 Speaker 2: same time, which is why we're stopping the current claims 80 00:04:06,680 --> 00:04:09,920 Speaker 2: and saying you can start again under the new thresholds. 81 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:12,720 Speaker 2: I did believe it would be messy to have some 82 00:04:12,840 --> 00:04:16,560 Speaker 2: continue under old thresholds and new ones continuing under the 83 00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:19,239 Speaker 2: new thresholds. So that's why we're doing it as quickly 84 00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:19,719 Speaker 2: as we can. 85 00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:22,320 Speaker 1: All right, Brook, thanks very much, really appreciated. Brook Van Valden. 86 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:26,080 Speaker 1: Workplace relations minister so heard it was more than ten 87 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:28,119 Speaker 1: billion dollars over four years. Heard it was the single 88 00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:31,040 Speaker 1: biggest saving in the budget. She didn't disabuse us of that. 89 00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:33,160 Speaker 1: So I guess we're just going to believe that until 90 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:37,120 Speaker 1: somebody does. For more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive, Listen 91 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:40,160 Speaker 1: live to news Talks. It'd be from four pm weekdays, 92 00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:42,520 Speaker 1: or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.