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Speaker 1: The Broadcasting Standards Authority seems to be making a big

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Speaker 1: play over their jurisdiction now. They visioned a issued a

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Speaker 1: provisional decision and claiming jurisdiction over a complaint that involves

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Speaker 1: online radio or an online program. This is the platform

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Speaker 1: they claim new media falls under the Broadcasting Act. Stacy

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Speaker 1: Wood as the chief Executive of the Broadcasting Standards Authority

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Speaker 1: and as whetherus good morning, good nay, you're reaching here

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Speaker 1: a bit or not?

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Speaker 2: Ye sin note, we are applying the Act that we have,

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Speaker 2: but it is the first time that we've done so

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Speaker 2: in this way.

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Speaker 1: Why now?

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Speaker 2: Why now? Because we've received a complaint that sets the

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Speaker 2: definition and meets our formal requirements. We can only act

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Speaker 2: when we receive a complaint and we feel that we're

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Speaker 2: required to in accordance to their Act.

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Speaker 1: I've got the clause of the Broadcasting Act in front

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Speaker 1: of me.

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Speaker 2: I'll go to the lot of people died.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I can see why you've gone there. But equally,

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Speaker 1: I can mount an argument as to why you wouldn't.

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Speaker 1: So why have you chosen the former?

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Speaker 2: We've s been a long time thinking about this. We've

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Speaker 2: been the regulator for thirty six years. Obviously I haven't

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Speaker 2: been there the whole time, but we have thought about

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Speaker 2: this a lot, discussed it a lot, talked to a

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Speaker 2: lot of people about it. And this isn't a position

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Speaker 2: we've developed over night. We actually published it back in

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Speaker 2: twenty nineteen said we're going to do a full scale

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Speaker 2: review of our jurisdiction. Twenty twenty regulatory review was put

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Speaker 2: on the cards. There was an election coming with you,

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Speaker 2: we're going to pause the full review. But if a

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Speaker 2: complaint comes along about an online broadcast, will consider it.

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Speaker 2: And that's what's happened.

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Speaker 1: Difficulty with it if I was advising you, which are

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Speaker 1: not obviously, but the difficulty with the complaint you're dealing

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Speaker 1: with it's in what I would term a fairly you know,

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Speaker 1: it's an inconsequential complaint. It some winduris says, you know,

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Speaker 1: so and so said, so you know this isn't this

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Speaker 1: isn't a dieing the ditch type decision that you could

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Speaker 1: you could stand behind.

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Speaker 2: Well, we haven't considered the merits of the complaint, and

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Speaker 2: I can't talk about that, but what I would say

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Speaker 2: is the Act doesn't give us that discretion when accepting

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Speaker 2: a complaint. The authority has the power to uphold, not uphold,

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Speaker 2: or decline to determine. But even in making that decision,

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Speaker 2: it needs to accept for consideration every complaint that meets

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Speaker 2: the very basic formal requirements of the Acts. So my

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Speaker 2: hands are sort of tied if we accept that transmission

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Speaker 2: of a program by means of telecommunication includes the Internet.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but do you I mean, obviously you've thought about it,

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Speaker 1: so you hand down your decision, whatever that decision is

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Speaker 1: in the individual circumstances. But you are now in this space,

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Speaker 1: and being in this space, you set a precedent. And

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Speaker 1: the precedent you set is worrying, isn't it? Because what's

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Speaker 1: the difference between the platform online and the mic Hosking

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Speaker 1: Facebook page.

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Speaker 2: And that's a great question, and that is why we've

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Speaker 2: been saying for fifteen years legislative change is the cleanest

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Speaker 2: way to solve this problem. Because there are some programs

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Speaker 2: online that clearly fit within the definition of the Act.

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Speaker 2: There's a whole lot of question marks on other kinds

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Speaker 2: of media that are online, and we, as a very

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Speaker 2: small crown entity, don't have to power to legislate the

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Speaker 2: whole internet to site what people think. It's very gratifying,

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Speaker 2: But we don't want to regulate everybody. No, not clarity, No, But.

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Speaker 1: You're opening the door to you doing that, aren't you.

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Speaker 1: Now if I complain, if I lay complaining against my

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Speaker 1: wife's Instagram account, what are your hands equally tired? And

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Speaker 1: you must now look at that.

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Speaker 2: We've said that we're going to assist online complaints on

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Speaker 2: a case by case basis, and we have previously said

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Speaker 2: that things like social media don't seem as clearly within

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Speaker 2: the purpose of the Act. However, we acknowledge these broadcasters

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Speaker 2: that simultaneously broadcast on their own channels, terrestrial channels, their

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Speaker 2: Facebook pages. So yeah, good, very good, quick, and we

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Speaker 2: look forward to determining those complaints.

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Speaker 1: Of So what is it about Shawn's operation, because we speak,

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Speaker 1: of course with Sean Plunkett. Is it the fact he's

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Speaker 1: in a so called studio with a microphone and looks

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Speaker 1: like it could be a radio program as opposed to

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Speaker 1: my wife's Instagram account and she's standing in a field

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Speaker 1: saying perhaps allegedly the same thing but without the format

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Speaker 1: of a studio.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean part of it is the wording of

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Speaker 2: the act. But yeah, it's applying a pragmatic, pragmatic lens

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Speaker 2: to it. Does it look like radio? Does it sound

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Speaker 2: like radio?

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Speaker 1: You can't stay so you can't possibly ask does it

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Speaker 1: look like radio? Does it sound what?

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Speaker 2: What?

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Speaker 1: An?

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Speaker 2: When you go to Well, when I excess Radio, for instance,

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Speaker 2: I don't use a radio yet. So the way I

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Speaker 2: excess Ranger National for instance, as I go to their

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Speaker 2: website and press a button to listen live.

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Speaker 1: Well, that's your fastive mistake, isn't it?

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Speaker 2: As an example, when I'm listening to the microp fingers,

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Speaker 2: they might do the same, But when you go to

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Speaker 2: Sean's website you do the same thing. Why does Wi

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Speaker 2: Fi differ from radio waves? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Does the government need to step in here and do something?

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Speaker 1: I mean, my only concern for you is that this

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Speaker 1: is Pandora's box personified, isn't it?

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Speaker 2: Yep? And we would like to real they just let

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Speaker 2: it change to clarify this for us because we have

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Speaker 2: eight staff and we're required to consider a resumplaint that

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Speaker 2: comes to us, so we can easily see that this

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Speaker 2: conturn unto all workload management issue for us?

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Speaker 1: Would you find not that this and this is my

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Speaker 1: great criticism of the bsas I'm sure you're well aware

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Speaker 1: anyway is that most of the decisions you make are

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Speaker 1: of no great consequence, and you go so and so

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Speaker 1: said this, and you shouldn't have done it, and that's

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Speaker 1: the end of that. If you were to find in

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Speaker 1: the Platform's case something substantive, you won't in this obvious instance.

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Speaker 1: But in a serious complaint, if you found something substantive

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Speaker 1: that required a file or some sort of penalty that

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Speaker 1: ends up in court, doesn't. I mean this is where

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Speaker 1: this ultimately will be decided. Sadly.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, our decisions can be appealed to the High Court.

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Speaker 2: There's obviously also opportunity for judicial review, and people are

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Speaker 2: welcome to use whatever legal avenues are available to them.

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Speaker 2: I know that Sean's were emotional about the receiving our

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Speaker 2: decision US today and I can understand that it's intimidating

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Speaker 2: to eat a letter from a regulator. Well maybe not

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Speaker 2: for you, your seasoned, but the look out. We don't

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Speaker 2: actually have the power to shut people down, as you know,

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Speaker 2: if we assure a decision.

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Speaker 1: Racy light, you want to shut me down.

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Speaker 2: The only appeals that we've had in the last year

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Speaker 2: are actually that decisions that we haven't upheld, which I

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Speaker 2: find interesting. So people shouldn't be too worried. I feel

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Speaker 2: that if people look at what we're wanting and what

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Speaker 2: we're saying, act is, the comparison to Nazi Germany might

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Speaker 2: start to fall away.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, no, okay, it's good to talk to your preciate.

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Speaker 1: A very much fascinating subject. I don't know the wider

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Speaker 1: world's fascinated by it, but certainly I am, because if

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Speaker 1: I was in charge of anything, i'd stop the BSA immediately,

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Speaker 1: because the industry runs itself perfectly professionally. I can't remember

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Speaker 1: the last time they made a decision that was a

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Speaker 1: profound decision on a very serious complaint where somebody had

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Speaker 1: overtly crossed the line to a level that most New

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Speaker 1: Zealanders would go, geez, we need someone to step in

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Speaker 1: here and get this thing under control. And in the

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Speaker 1: Shorn Platform case, it's somebody. I think he used the

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Speaker 1: term mumbo jumbo referring to some Mari content, and that's

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Speaker 1: the sort of stuff they deal with on an ongoing

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Speaker 1: and regular basis. If I was sure and plunking now

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Speaker 1: that I'm handing out advice all over the place this morning,

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Speaker 1: I'd be more worried about my financial circumstances than I

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Speaker 1: would about some regulatory authority that's really not to bother us.

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Speaker 2: For more from the Mi Casking Breakfast, listen live to

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Speaker 2: news talks.

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Speaker 1: It'd be from six am weekdays, or follow the podcast

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Speaker 1: on iHeartRadio