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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Saturday Morning with Jack team podcast

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Speaker 1: from News Talks ab.

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Speaker 2: Viva Edith Papa. The chance could be heard before his

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Speaker 2: name was even announced over Saint Peter's Square. Robert Francis

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Speaker 2: Prevos has become the two hundred and sixty seventh Pope,

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Speaker 2: and we'll be doing as Leo the fourteenth. Of course,

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Speaker 2: New Zealand's Cardinal John Due is at the Vatican and

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Speaker 2: took part in the conclave that selected Pope Leo, and

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Speaker 2: from Italy, he joins us this morning. Calder John, Welcome

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Speaker 2: to the show, Cure Jack, thank you very much, thank

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Speaker 2: you for being with us. First of all, I suppose

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Speaker 2: the obvious question tell us about the new Pope Jack.

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Speaker 3: He is a very lovely person. He's well educated, He's

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Speaker 3: had great experience. I was born in the United States,

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Speaker 3: but spent quite a long time working as a missionary

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Speaker 3: in Peru and in recent years has worked here in

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Speaker 3: the Vatican and what we call the Congregation for Bishops

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Speaker 3: are responsible for bishop's appointments and all sorts of things

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Speaker 3: to do with bishops all around the world. He's very

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Speaker 3: calm and measured. He was very calm when his name

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Speaker 3: kept coming up yesterday. Everyone was sort of looking at him,

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Speaker 3: and he was just sitting there with a little smile

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Speaker 3: on his face. And when he was asked for did

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Speaker 3: he accept the election, he just stood up and said

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Speaker 3: in Latin that he did accept. And from there on,

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Speaker 3: really he's just, as I say, just been very natural.

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Speaker 3: He greeted the thousands of people in the square. We

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Speaker 3: had time to greet him ourselves at one stage yesterday afternoon.

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Speaker 3: So a lovely man, and I think we'll do a

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Speaker 3: very good job as totally O the fourteenth.

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Speaker 2: This is prepped a funny question, but is it obvious

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Speaker 2: that people want to be pope?

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Speaker 3: No, it's not. And if if it was obvious, I

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Speaker 3: don't think I'd get the votes. There was no one

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Speaker 3: who was obviously the area of one hundred and thirty

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Speaker 3: three in the conclave that you would think actually wanted

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Speaker 3: to decote. I'm quite certain of that. Do you know

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Speaker 3: no one would really look for a role like that

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Speaker 3: for themselves.

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Speaker 2: No one, I don't think that, so, sorry to interrupt you,

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Speaker 2: no one sort of openly campaigning or anything like that.

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Speaker 3: No, no, absolutely not. And so tell US's actually it's

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Speaker 3: not that it's not allowing as hard to sort of

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Speaker 3: lobby for yourselves at all. It's not it's not permitted.

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Speaker 2: So tell us about your experience of conclave. I know

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Speaker 2: you probably get asked this every day, you know, I

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Speaker 2: think many of our listeners will have will have seen

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Speaker 2: the film, But tell us about your experience. What was

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Speaker 2: it like to be there for them, you know, for

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Speaker 2: that incredible moment.

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Speaker 3: It was an incredible moment, well more than a moment, actually,

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Speaker 3: the whole sort of process from the time of Francis's death.

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Speaker 3: I think got here just a few days after his

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Speaker 3: death and was here in time for this funeral, and

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Speaker 3: by that stage the meetings of cardinals had begun, and

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Speaker 3: we had about ten days of meetings, not necessarily every day,

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Speaker 3: but most of the days between the general and the

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Speaker 3: start of the conclave. And in those meetings, this is

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Speaker 3: all part of the process. In those meetings we were

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Speaker 3: able to anyone had the opportunity to speak, and we're

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Speaker 3: encouraged to speak about the kind of person they thought

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Speaker 3: should be elective. There's the next pope, the kind of

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Speaker 3: issues that the church is facing today, the issues that

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Speaker 3: the pope might need to speak on, speak up about it.

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Speaker 3: In terms of world issues, you know, he needs to

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Speaker 3: be someone who's politically astute and as a world leader,

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Speaker 3: as Francis showed us he was. So that was part

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Speaker 3: of the lead up, and that of course was all

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Speaker 3: set in the context obviously of prayer every day and

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Speaker 3: also included nine days of masses of prayers of mourning

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Speaker 3: for Pote Francis. And then when we moved into the

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Speaker 3: actual conclave, we we all gathered in what's called the

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Speaker 3: Pauline Chapel, very close to the System Chapel, and processed

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Speaker 3: and quite solemnly to the singing of the Litany of

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Speaker 3: the Saints and calling on the saints of the plant,

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Speaker 3: including of course past popes, and then seeing a very

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Speaker 3: beautiful Latin him calling on the spirit of God to

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Speaker 3: lead us, and then the process began. So it was

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Speaker 3: an amazing I found it a very amazing thing to

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Speaker 3: be sitting in the System Chapel looking around at, you know,

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Speaker 3: the beautiful artwork and architecture and thinking what this is

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Speaker 3: what we hear about. It was all very calmly done

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Speaker 3: and very well organized in the way that we wrote

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Speaker 3: our vote on a name on our little card and

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Speaker 3: then processed up like an order of precedence from the

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Speaker 3: times that we had been appointed as cardinals, and of

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Speaker 3: course that took quite some time each each time there

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Speaker 3: was a vote, because there were one hundred and thirty

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Speaker 3: three of us, we saw an oath that we would

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Speaker 3: be truthful, that we would do a vote to the

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Speaker 3: best of our ability, that we thought this is what

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Speaker 3: God was asking of us to do. So it was

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Speaker 3: all set in that context, and I very amazing. I

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Speaker 3: think we all found it a very privileged moment. And

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Speaker 3: of course it became clear that the cardinal Prevos was

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Speaker 3: going to be was getting the numbers. It became quite

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Speaker 3: an emotional time. And well, I found it an emotional

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Speaker 3: time when he when he accepted and then was led

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Speaker 3: out to a room to be dressed in the in

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Speaker 3: the papal robes. You know, I saidenly had a tear

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Speaker 3: in my eye that how how emotional the whole thing was,

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Speaker 3: and that he came back into the into the Sistine Chapel,

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Speaker 3: we had a time, a little time of prayer together

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Speaker 3: with him, and then we all had the opportunities to

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Speaker 3: go up and greet him and as it were, sort

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Speaker 3: of lege our allegiance and say a few words to him.

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Speaker 3: I said to him that I'd had the habit of

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Speaker 3: playing every day for Perflancis, and I would continue doing

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Speaker 3: that for him. But then he think me, and I

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Speaker 3: think he knows that he needs the prayers of the world.

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Speaker 3: So it's a very emotional time. After that, we were

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Speaker 3: we followed him out of the Sistine Chapel and through

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Speaker 3: one of the big, magnificent halls at the Vatican, and

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Speaker 3: he was led out onto the central balcony, the loggia

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Speaker 3: of Saint Peter's, and some of us were privileged enough

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Speaker 3: to get out onto the balconies either side of Saint

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Speaker 3: Peter's and that was the most amazing experience to hear

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Speaker 3: the roar of the crowd as he as he appeared,

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Speaker 3: and the chanting if they started chanting via Papa you

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Speaker 3: along with the Pope. The two bands at the bottom

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Speaker 3: of it out in the Saint Peter's Square with guards

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Speaker 3: were there, and you know, just a huge crowd of

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Speaker 3: people chanting and and singing. And then he gave a

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Speaker 3: blessing and said a few words. I couldn't quite to

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Speaker 3: get all up because of the eCos, and he was speaking,

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Speaker 3: and he spoke in Italian, in Latin, and in Spanish

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Speaker 3: fluent in English too, obviously, but he didn't use English

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Speaker 3: at that stage. So at a very emotional time, in

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Speaker 3: a very privileged.

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Speaker 2: Time, it sounds profound, John, That sounds sounds like just

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Speaker 2: an extraordinary thing to experience. So when that, when it

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Speaker 2: became clear, you say that that he had the votes

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Speaker 2: and that he had been elected pope? Do the cardinals cheer?

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Speaker 2: Do you clap? How does how does it? How does

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Speaker 2: it work?

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Speaker 3: In that moment, as it became clear that he had

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Speaker 3: the votes, there was immediate applause that he had reached

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Speaker 3: that number. The voting hadn't quite finished, but he was acknowledged.

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Speaker 3: He stood up and just acknowledged, and then the vote

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Speaker 3: and the counting of the votes and the names of

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Speaker 3: a few others were ready out, and then it was

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Speaker 3: clear that he had the numbers, that he was elected Hope.

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Speaker 3: So the Cardinal President, as aware of the of the

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Speaker 3: conclave process, then asked him if he accepted the electionist Hope,

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Speaker 3: and he just said in Latin except that he does accept.

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Speaker 3: And then he would asked what name he wanted to

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Speaker 3: be called, and he just said Leo. So it's a

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Speaker 3: while since they've been a pope Leo last one was

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Speaker 3: Leo the Great and then yeah, that was he was

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Speaker 3: he was pope.

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Speaker 2: He's got to have a name ready to go, as.

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Speaker 3: It were, Yes, and he must have been thinking of

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Speaker 3: that over the large you know, the tree, as his

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Speaker 3: name was becoming more and more obviously, was thinking about

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Speaker 3: what he would be called.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and so, John, do you and I know you

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Speaker 2: don't make your vote public, and of course we respect that,

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Speaker 2: but but do you and the other cardinals talk amongst

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Speaker 2: each other about who you're planning to vote for as

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Speaker 2: the process unfold? Is that something that happens, you know,

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Speaker 2: kind of you know, publicly within the conclave.

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Speaker 3: In those in those ten days of meetings. That happens

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Speaker 3: more where you might chat and say, what do you

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Speaker 3: think of so and so? Or do you think he's

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Speaker 3: got the qualities? Does he have what's what what it

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Speaker 3: takes today to be to be pope? And of course

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Speaker 3: some of the cardinals you know that better, so you've

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Speaker 3: chatted a bit more with with some of them, So

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Speaker 3: you do talk about who and obviously it's it's all

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Speaker 3: part of the secrecy of the of the conclave. You

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Speaker 3: do talk about who you think might be the right person.

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Speaker 3: And I could just see that he was so calm,

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Speaker 3: and calm really was a word every time you looked

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Speaker 3: at him. He's just taking everything just so gradually, and

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Speaker 3: and from what I knew of him, I thought he

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Speaker 3: was going to be very good.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: You know, we we and those of us who work

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Speaker 2: in politics have noted that have late, there are a

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Speaker 2: few elections that have been influenced by Donald Trump. You know,

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Speaker 2: look at Canada and Australia within the last couple of weeks.

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Speaker 2: Do you think there's any argument that this is a

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Speaker 2: Trump election in a way or a Trump influenced election.

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Speaker 3: Not at all, Absolutely not, No, No, it's the cardinals themselves. No,

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Speaker 3: not at all.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but obviously there are so many things they need

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Speaker 2: to consider, so so so so John, when you when

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Speaker 2: you're there again, this might seem silly, but for those

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Speaker 2: of us on the outside, just such a fascinating process.

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Speaker 2: Can I ask just a couple of really simple things,

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Speaker 2: and especially in those meetings beforehand and throughout the whole process.

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Speaker 2: Where do you stay? So, where are you sleeping?

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Speaker 1: What do you eat?

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Speaker 2: And what do you speak? What language do you speak?

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Speaker 3: Well? Okay, where do we start? I stay at a

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Speaker 3: at a Vatican's kind of a Vatican guest house. Usually

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Speaker 3: stay there, which is just outside the Vatican that belongs

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Speaker 3: to the Vatican, right at the end of the big

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Speaker 3: street that leads right up to Saint Peter's. I stay there,

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Speaker 3: and during those days of meetings, I had to walk

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Speaker 3: up the big long street every day and battle with

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Speaker 3: journalists as we tried to get into the hall we

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Speaker 3: were going to the meetings, and that was a couple

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Speaker 3: of times, a couple of times a day. We met

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Speaker 3: through the morning and then had a break, went back

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Speaker 3: to our places for lunch, and then started again sort

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Speaker 3: of midastinents till seventy them. So stay at places like that.

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Speaker 3: Some stay at if they belong to a religious order.

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Speaker 3: Leo is an Augustinian, so they have a place here.

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Speaker 3: So some august yes, which would stay at the Gesuit

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Speaker 3: place in different places. And then we had decided as

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Speaker 3: part of the meeting, we decided on the date of

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Speaker 3: the start of the conclave, which was the seventh of May.

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Speaker 3: So on the sixth of May we were all asked

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Speaker 3: to come to this place called Saint Demata, which is

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Speaker 3: right in the Vatican and where France has actually lived,

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Speaker 3: and Saint de Marta is a guest house where many

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Speaker 3: people who work in the Vatican live here permanently. They

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Speaker 3: are all asked to move out while we come in

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Speaker 3: for the conclave, And so Saint de Marta is completely

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Speaker 3: dedicated to the conclave over these few days, right, And

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Speaker 3: I'm still here at the moment. I will move out

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Speaker 3: later today. And it's within the Vatican. We were able

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Speaker 3: to walk over to the system chapel if we wanted to.

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Speaker 3: There were mini buses for those who didn't want to

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Speaker 3: walk over. What do we eat, same as anybody? We

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Speaker 3: need a beautiful Italian sero.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you know, like I said at the start,

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Speaker 2: it must, you know, be a profound experience to be

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Speaker 2: there for what is a kind of you know, indisputably

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Speaker 2: a significant historical moment like that, and to be the

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Speaker 2: only representative from New Zealand in that conclave. So, finally, John,

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Speaker 2: what should we expect from this pope? Do you think

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Speaker 2: knowing him as you do and having had a couple

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Speaker 2: of moments and knowing the kinds of conversations that have

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Speaker 2: happened behind closed doors, you know, what do you think

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Speaker 2: the rest of the world can expect from Pope Leo.

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Speaker 3: I do believe that he will. While we were very

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Speaker 3: clear that we weren't voting or looking for a copy Francis,

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Speaker 3: I do believe that he will continue some of Francis's

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Speaker 3: initiatives which were important for the Church and for the world,

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Speaker 3: and he will immediately go into conversations with some of

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Speaker 3: the Vatican cardinals, in particular to look at the kind

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Speaker 3: of things that they believe needs to be addressed. He

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Speaker 3: will come up with his own issues as Francis did,

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Speaker 3: and put some issues on the world stage, for example,

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Speaker 3: human trafficking and finment change and the point of refugees.

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Speaker 3: You know, he might come up with something else which

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Speaker 3: is of international significance and which is to do with

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Speaker 3: people's lives. It might surprise us with that, as Francis

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Speaker 3: did it from time to time.

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Speaker 2: When do you get to come home?

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Speaker 3: And I was saying, it's a little it was a

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Speaker 3: little bit difficult because we didn't know how long that

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Speaker 3: conclave would take and when you made a book to

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Speaker 3: ticket for.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So I heard this morning that the official inauguration of

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Speaker 3: Leo is on the eighteenth of May, so I will

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Speaker 3: stay for that. It's a little distance away, but I've

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Speaker 3: got no great urgency to need to get home, so

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Speaker 3: I'll stay for that and then make arrangements to come

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Speaker 3: home after the still organation or inauguration on the eighteenth. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Well, well, look, thank you again for spending time with us.

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Speaker 2: We really appreciate it. Good luck a week and a

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Speaker 2: half or so, and you we look forward to seeing

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Speaker 2: you in your bank you.

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Speaker 3: Thanks very much, Jack, all the best.

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Speaker 2: Just so good to be speaking with Cardinal John Due

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Speaker 2: after a pretty amazing couple of weeks, and sounds like

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Speaker 2: a pretty impressive couple of weeks still to come. Live

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Speaker 2: with us from Italy this morning.

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Speaker 1: For more from Saturday Morning with Jack Tame, listen live

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