1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,520 Speaker 1: Are we seeing positive movement in the old health system? 2 00:00:02,680 --> 00:00:05,800 Speaker 1: New numbers on the Target's New numbers on our target 3 00:00:05,800 --> 00:00:08,160 Speaker 1: show that in cancer treatment, eighty four point six percent 4 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:11,040 Speaker 1: of patients are starting treatment within thirty one days now. 5 00:00:11,039 --> 00:00:13,480 Speaker 1: That's up from eighty three percent. Seventy four point two 6 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:17,000 Speaker 1: percent are admitted, discharged or transferred within six hours at 7 00:00:17,040 --> 00:00:19,239 Speaker 1: the EDS. That is up from seventy point one percent. 8 00:00:19,280 --> 00:00:21,520 Speaker 1: So Somion Browns the Health Ministry, of course, and it's 9 00:00:21,560 --> 00:00:22,000 Speaker 1: back with us. 10 00:00:22,040 --> 00:00:23,880 Speaker 2: Good morning, Good morning, Mike. 11 00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:26,720 Speaker 1: Are these numbers significant or just stats? I mean, what's 12 00:00:26,760 --> 00:00:29,080 Speaker 1: the difference in? I mean, what is eighty three to 13 00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:30,360 Speaker 1: eighty four point six mean? 14 00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:34,400 Speaker 2: Well, it's an improvement, and these are quarter by quarter 15 00:00:35,880 --> 00:00:39,559 Speaker 2: data points. This show's progress. We're committed to releasing this 16 00:00:39,640 --> 00:00:42,960 Speaker 2: information every three months so that the public can see 17 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:46,239 Speaker 2: how well our health system is performing. But ultimately there 18 00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:47,920 Speaker 2: is still a long way to go. We want ninety 19 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:51,400 Speaker 2: five percent of patients being seen or just an emergency 20 00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:53,319 Speaker 2: department within six hours, so there is a long way 21 00:00:53,360 --> 00:00:56,760 Speaker 2: to go. We want ninety five percent of cancer treatment 22 00:00:56,920 --> 00:01:01,840 Speaker 2: cancer patients being seen within within thirty one days as well, 23 00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:04,480 Speaker 2: So there's still work to do. But We're seeing progress 24 00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:07,120 Speaker 2: in the right direction and I'm going to continue that 25 00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:08,480 Speaker 2: focus as Minister of Health. 26 00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:10,000 Speaker 1: So on cancer, if you're seeing a one and a 27 00:01:10,040 --> 00:01:15,440 Speaker 1: half percent improvement per quarter, that is six per year, 28 00:01:16,319 --> 00:01:17,559 Speaker 1: so you're a few years off. 29 00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:21,920 Speaker 2: Well, the targets are to meet that by twenty thirty. 30 00:01:21,959 --> 00:01:24,480 Speaker 2: We had a significant reduction over the last six years. 31 00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:29,679 Speaker 2: The health system is turning these around. Will take time, 32 00:01:30,319 --> 00:01:32,920 Speaker 2: but the reality is my expectations is that Health New 33 00:01:32,959 --> 00:01:35,960 Speaker 2: Zealand does need to move faster on these That's why 34 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:38,840 Speaker 2: we're doing the elective boost at the moment, which is 35 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:42,600 Speaker 2: outsourcing electives to the private sector at pace. We've done 36 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:44,920 Speaker 2: nine and a half thousand so far, because actually we 37 00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:48,160 Speaker 2: can't wait till then. We have to be impatient and 38 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:50,440 Speaker 2: we have to focus on putting patients first and doing 39 00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:52,800 Speaker 2: everything we can to get these treatments done. 40 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:55,400 Speaker 1: We cover that on the program the other day. Are 41 00:01:55,440 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 1: you surprised about the angst around the private check? 42 00:02:00,960 --> 00:02:02,960 Speaker 2: Oh? Look, there's lots of noise from the unions, the 43 00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:08,359 Speaker 2: Labor Party, various voices and other media of course, who 44 00:02:08,440 --> 00:02:11,760 Speaker 2: just oppose anything which is about actually getting things done 45 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:15,720 Speaker 2: for patients. I don't think a patient key is when 46 00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:17,760 Speaker 2: they're sitting on the operating table and looking up at 47 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:20,400 Speaker 2: the ceiling and going, oh, my goodness, who owns the roof? 48 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:23,280 Speaker 2: They're focused on getting their treatment done, and that is 49 00:02:23,320 --> 00:02:25,560 Speaker 2: my focus as Minister of Health is getting the treatments 50 00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:28,359 Speaker 2: done that patients need, and I will continue to be 51 00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:29,760 Speaker 2: have that focus as Minister of Health. 52 00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:31,840 Speaker 1: The point they make that I think is fair. It 53 00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:35,079 Speaker 1: deprives surgical registrars of training, which is true, isn't it yep. 54 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:37,080 Speaker 2: I think that's a fair point, and that's where I've 55 00:02:37,080 --> 00:02:39,239 Speaker 2: asked howth New Zealand to work and have long term 56 00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:43,160 Speaker 2: agreements with these with these private hospitals and actually look 57 00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:48,800 Speaker 2: at including training opportunities in those agreements. When we do outsource, 58 00:02:48,840 --> 00:02:52,040 Speaker 2: we do need to make sure it's beneficial to both 59 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:54,200 Speaker 2: public and private. We need to make sure that people 60 00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:56,320 Speaker 2: are getting seen quickly, but we also do need to 61 00:02:56,320 --> 00:02:59,600 Speaker 2: make sure we are retaining those training opportunities for the 62 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:02,400 Speaker 2: next g generation of surgeons and specialists. That is critically 63 00:03:02,440 --> 00:03:04,480 Speaker 2: important and our vasked Health New Zealand to make sure 64 00:03:04,480 --> 00:03:05,359 Speaker 2: that's included as part. 65 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:07,560 Speaker 1: Do you have any reason to believe that the private 66 00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:11,000 Speaker 1: sector wouldn't be interested in doing that. 67 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:14,239 Speaker 2: All the feedback from the operators that I've spoken to 68 00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:17,120 Speaker 2: is that they have they have interest in that. There 69 00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:20,080 Speaker 2: are negotiations underway between Health New Zealand and those operators 70 00:03:20,120 --> 00:03:22,679 Speaker 2: around those points. Obviously a lot of detailed work through, 71 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:25,080 Speaker 2: but look, at the end of the day, it's but 72 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:27,440 Speaker 2: putting patients at the center to get things done. 73 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:31,720 Speaker 1: Now. Also reading yesterday the Royal College Australasian College of Surgeons, 74 00:03:31,720 --> 00:03:34,160 Speaker 1: and they're not alone, but they argue, and I have 75 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:36,000 Speaker 1: not been able to get to the bottom of it either. 76 00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:39,240 Speaker 1: They argue it is actually more expensive to do it 77 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:41,840 Speaker 1: privately than it is publicly, and what the public system 78 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:45,320 Speaker 1: needs is more funding. How do they square that circle 79 00:03:45,480 --> 00:03:46,400 Speaker 1: or are they simply making that. 80 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:49,040 Speaker 2: We need to be investing both in you know, we 81 00:03:49,080 --> 00:03:51,360 Speaker 2: need to invest ultimately and putting patients at the center, 82 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:54,960 Speaker 2: and going we need things to get done. Look, the majority, 83 00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:57,640 Speaker 2: the vast majority of elective surgeries happen in the in 84 00:03:57,680 --> 00:04:00,960 Speaker 2: the in the public system. Ten percent happen in the 85 00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:02,800 Speaker 2: private system. But this is about ensuring we can get 86 00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:05,760 Speaker 2: surgeries done in a timely manner, and that will require outsourcing. 87 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:08,160 Speaker 2: It's always happened. In fact, Chris Hipkins, when he was 88 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:11,040 Speaker 2: Minister of Health back in twenty twenty, took a paper 89 00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:13,000 Speaker 2: to cabinet saying we need to use more of the 90 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:16,240 Speaker 2: private system to get more done. So here they are 91 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:18,400 Speaker 2: opposing what we're doing today. When he took a paper 92 00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:20,080 Speaker 2: up to cabinet in twenty twenty, shy. 93 00:04:19,960 --> 00:04:22,520 Speaker 1: I can't understand why everyone's objecting to it. So would 94 00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:24,360 Speaker 1: you argue because we had a private surgeon on the 95 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:26,080 Speaker 1: other day who said it's cheaper to do it in 96 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:28,640 Speaker 1: the private sector, do you have a clear answer? Is 97 00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:30,560 Speaker 1: it cheaper to do it in the private sector than 98 00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:31,559 Speaker 1: it is in the public sector. 99 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:33,760 Speaker 2: It will depend in different parts of the country for 100 00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:37,240 Speaker 2: different surgeries ultimately, But the point here is if you 101 00:04:37,279 --> 00:04:40,440 Speaker 2: have long term agreements, you're able to get efficiencies and 102 00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:42,120 Speaker 2: that's where you're able to drive. At the moment. Health 103 00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:43,920 Speaker 2: New Zealand or in the past has done ad hoc 104 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:46,360 Speaker 2: arrangements where they do short term agreements. Of course, it's 105 00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:48,599 Speaker 2: going to be more expensive if that's the approach you 106 00:04:48,640 --> 00:04:50,760 Speaker 2: do it. If you take a long term approach, you 107 00:04:50,760 --> 00:04:54,880 Speaker 2: can get efficiencies, better value for money and ultimately better 108 00:04:54,920 --> 00:04:56,440 Speaker 2: care for patients, which is my focus. 109 00:04:56,560 --> 00:04:58,320 Speaker 1: The other thing he said I thought was interesting and 110 00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:00,680 Speaker 1: I didn't know about. Is he claims if things look 111 00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:02,960 Speaker 1: like they might be going past four o'clock, it starts 112 00:05:02,960 --> 00:05:04,880 Speaker 1: to close down a bit. Is that true? 113 00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:09,719 Speaker 2: Well, look, there is heavily unionized contractoral arrange arrangements in 114 00:05:09,720 --> 00:05:11,640 Speaker 2: the public system, and so yes, you do end up 115 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:16,160 Speaker 2: with in efficiencies throughout the system, and that those issues 116 00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:18,919 Speaker 2: need to be dealt with by Health New Zealand to 117 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:23,080 Speaker 2: make sure that it is more efficient. But that's where again, 118 00:05:23,200 --> 00:05:25,720 Speaker 2: using the public system and the private system and putting 119 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:27,680 Speaker 2: patients at the center is the answer. 120 00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:31,080 Speaker 1: But how do you get around that? First of all, 121 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:33,200 Speaker 1: why does it even exist? I mean to oh, this 122 00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:34,599 Speaker 1: is going to go to past four o'clock. 123 00:05:34,680 --> 00:05:38,560 Speaker 2: Let's those questions? Yeah, I mean, I suggest you put 124 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:41,599 Speaker 2: those questions to the to the Senior Doctors Union when 125 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:44,720 Speaker 2: they when they're next on your show, because ultimately, these 126 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:47,479 Speaker 2: are these are union agreements which have been negotiated over 127 00:05:47,520 --> 00:05:49,560 Speaker 2: a long period of time which drive inefficiency and a 128 00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:51,240 Speaker 2: lack of productivity. 129 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:51,760 Speaker 1: With Health New Zealand. 130 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:55,000 Speaker 2: Though with Health New Zealand, I agree, and these are 131 00:05:55,040 --> 00:05:58,880 Speaker 2: issues that do need to be resolved as part of 132 00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:02,680 Speaker 2: those negotiations with the unions. But this is these these 133 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:05,640 Speaker 2: these are not issues that are going to be resolved overnight, 134 00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:08,920 Speaker 2: and therefore we have to focus on putting patients first. 135 00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:11,160 Speaker 2: We have massive weightlifts we need to get through and 136 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:15,000 Speaker 2: that's where I make no apology, no apology for using 137 00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:16,720 Speaker 2: the private sector to get patient seen. 138 00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:19,520 Speaker 1: All right, appreciate your times always, Health Minister and Brown. 139 00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:21,320 Speaker 1: It's just wanting to find out that's true. 140 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:24,479 Speaker 2: For more from the My Asking Breakfast, listen live to 141 00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:25,159 Speaker 2: news talks. 142 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:28,360 Speaker 1: It'd be from six am weekdays, or follow the podcast 143 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:29,240 Speaker 1: on iHeartRadio.