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Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from news talks it B.

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Speaker 1: Follow this and our wide range of podcast now on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: It's time for all the attitude, all the opinion, all

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Speaker 1: the information, all the debates of the now, the Leyton

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Speaker 1: Smith Podcast powered by news talks it B.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to podcast two hundred and eighty seven for June fourth,

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty five. Patrick Basham, founder of Democracy Institute, discusses

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Speaker 2: their recent poll on whether Donald Trump is fixing the

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Speaker 2: American economy or otherwise, and I have to say that

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Speaker 2: some of the stats are somewhat interesting. We then engage

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Speaker 2: in discussion on the most critical issues, while some of

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Speaker 2: the most critical issues on the planet Iran and their

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Speaker 2: nuclear developments, Ukraine's successful drone strike on Russia, the South

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Speaker 2: Korean and Polish elections, and by the way, the amount

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Speaker 2: of CCP Chinese Communist Party interference in South Korea and

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Speaker 2: their election is well, it's almost terrifying. Then we have

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Speaker 2: the mail room and at the back end of two

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Speaker 2: eight seven some commentary on stupidity and net zero and

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Speaker 2: yes they go very well together. But in a moment,

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Speaker 2: Patrick Basham. Buccolan is a natural oral vaccine in a

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Speaker 2: tablet form called bacterial licate. It'll boost your natural protection

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Speaker 2: against bacterial infections in your chest and throat. A three

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Speaker 2: day course of seven Buckland tablets will help your body

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Speaker 2: build up to three months of immunity against bugs which

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Speaker 2: cause bacterial cold symptoms. So who can take buccolan well,

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Speaker 2: the whole family From two years of age and upwards.

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Speaker 2: A course of Buckelan tablets offers cost effective and safe

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Speaker 2: protection from colds and chills. Protection becomes effective a few

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Speaker 2: days after you take buccolan and lasts for up to

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Speaker 2: three month following the three day course. Buckolhan can be

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Speaker 2: taken throughout the cold season, over winter or or the

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Speaker 2: year round. And remember Buckelan is not intended as an

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Speaker 2: alternative to influenza vaccination, but may be used along with

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Speaker 2: the flu vaccination for added protection. And keep in mind

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Speaker 2: that millions of doses have been taken by Kiwi's for

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Speaker 2: over fifty years. Only available from your pharmacist. Always read

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Speaker 2: the label and users directed, and see your doctor if

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Speaker 2: systems persist. Farmer Broker Auckland now from Democracy Institute in Washington,

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Speaker 2: d C. Once again, Patrick Masham, it's great to talk

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Speaker 2: to you.

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Speaker 3: Great to be with you late in your fine audience.

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Speaker 3: Always look forward to it.

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Speaker 2: Indeed, Patrick, you a few days ago you released the

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Speaker 2: results of a poll that you did on Trump's popularity. Yes,

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Speaker 2: why did you do that? At this point?

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Speaker 3: Are we episodically you know, test the waters in terms

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Speaker 3: of the president's approval and the general sense of how

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Speaker 3: things are going in the country. So you know, we

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Speaker 3: did this episodically well Biden was president or Trump was

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Speaker 3: in his first term. And it's something that most you know,

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Speaker 3: most posters do and it's they don't usually they're not

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Speaker 3: usually exciting figures, but when you look at the trends

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Speaker 3: over time, it can be quite revealing. And historically even

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Speaker 3: there's no perfect yardstick for how a president will do,

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Speaker 3: say in the upcoming election, but generally a president's approval

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Speaker 3: rating has been a pretty good guide. So, you know,

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Speaker 3: crudely put, if a president is around or above fifty

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Speaker 3: percent approval come nearing an election, he's usually re elected

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Speaker 3: if he has that opportunity, and if he's you know,

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Speaker 3: in the low forties or below, he's usually defeated. Obviously,

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Speaker 3: in Trump's case, he doesn't have any more elections to come,

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Speaker 3: but so that's that's why we do it, and we

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Speaker 3: did it at a time when there's been a lot

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Speaker 3: of discussion in America about Trump's approval because most of

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Speaker 3: the legacy media pollsters have found in recent or had

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Speaker 3: found in recent weeks and months that Trump's approval was

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Speaker 3: quote unquote down. Most of those ourselves included, who were

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Speaker 3: the more accurate ones in twenty twenty four, had and

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Speaker 3: have found his approval is quite fine. So there's that

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Speaker 3: there's that contrast that was in existence, you know, throughout

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Speaker 3: much of the twenty twenty four campaign between within the

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Speaker 3: polling community.

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Speaker 2: All right, so let's look at the figures. Is Trump

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Speaker 2: fixing or breaking America? Was the title of it? You've got, well,

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Speaker 2: why don't you deliver?

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Speaker 3: So it's it's memory Services fifty one saying that he

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Speaker 3: is fixing and thirty seven saying he's breaking the country,

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Speaker 3: with you know, a healthy number the remainder saying neither.

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Speaker 3: Neither is the case. They don't really have a fixer

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Speaker 3: upon that, they don't have a strong sense of whether

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Speaker 3: he's making the country better or worse. It's a it's

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Speaker 3: a sort of simple crude, but we think effective way

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Speaker 3: of just capturing how people think he's doing overall, given

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Speaker 3: that most people who voted last year, whoever they voted for,

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Speaker 3: thought that things weren't as they should be. Now, you know,

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Speaker 3: many of them blamed Biden and Harris, but a good

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Speaker 3: number thought that the problems that America faced, particularly the

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Speaker 3: sort of larger our problems, were because of Trump and

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Speaker 3: his ilk, threatening democracy and all this kind of stuff.

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Speaker 3: So most people thought there were there were the change

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Speaker 3: was necessary, the country needed to be fixed. And so

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Speaker 3: we asked whether Trump was how he was doing on that,

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Speaker 3: and we found that, you know, by a fair distance,

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Speaker 3: given how tightly divided American politics are, is that most

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Speaker 3: people think, yeah, despite the media's best efforts to spin

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Speaker 3: things otherwise, Trump is actually you know, making some progress,

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Speaker 3: making some headway.

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Speaker 2: I'm I'm intrigued with the with the next set, So

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Speaker 2: just just running through that again, fifty one percent say

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Speaker 2: that he is fixing the country or the economy, thirty

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Speaker 2: seven percent say breaking twelve percent neither. Then you get

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Speaker 2: to Trump's actual approval rating, and you've got fifty You've

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Speaker 2: got fifty two percent approve. Disapprove is forty six. So

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Speaker 2: it's a you can look at it two.

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Speaker 3: It in isolation, one would say that's a very good number,

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Speaker 3: and I believe it is, and it's it's on on

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Speaker 3: a par with the other better numbers for Trump out

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Speaker 3: there from other poles, and in start contrast to the

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Speaker 3: polls that show him down five or ten points on

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Speaker 3: the approval disapproval question instead underwater in negative territory. But

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Speaker 3: if you're if you look at it next to or

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Speaker 3: following the question we've just discussed, it begs then the question, well,

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Speaker 3: why if only thirty seven percent think he's breaking it

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Speaker 3: to forty six percent disapprove Exactly What that reveals is

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Speaker 3: that when you ask people questions that either directly or indirectly,

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Speaker 3: explicitly or implicitly get to the issue of issues of

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Speaker 3: tangible change, and most people think of it interest They

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Speaker 3: think of in terms of the country as a whole,

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Speaker 3: but most people think first and foremost tangible change in

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Speaker 3: their own lives, the lies of those around them. Then

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Speaker 3: you get a less negative response because two thirds of them,

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Speaker 3: you know, only a third of the country really thinks

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Speaker 3: that things are not getting better, or at least they're

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Speaker 3: not getting worse. But when you ask exclusively about Trump himself,

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Speaker 3: as president. A president's you know, personal qualities or perceptions

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Speaker 3: of his personal qualities are always going to affect that number,

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Speaker 3: And of course Trump is the epitomizes how it can

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Speaker 3: do in ways, you know, positive or negative. So when

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Speaker 3: people are asked exclusively about Trump and not his policies,

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Speaker 3: then you get a much more reflexive default response from

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Speaker 3: you know, almost half the country, which is, well, I

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Speaker 3: don't like Trump. I wish he wasn't president. So I'm

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Speaker 3: going to say I disapprove of his presidency to this point,

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Speaker 3: even though, as I say, a slice of that, a

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Speaker 3: significant slice of those who disapprove of him as president

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Speaker 3: actually recognize that he's not doing such a terrible job.

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Speaker 2: Is there is there a strong possibility that a significant

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Speaker 2: number would have voted for him as well those who disapprove.

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Speaker 3: Uh, those that some some some, yeah, some would have

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Speaker 3: been some some would have stayed home. You know, that

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Speaker 3: was one of the problems that Democrats had if Harris

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Speaker 3: didn't enthuse enough enough folks on that side. Uh. And

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Speaker 3: where whereas Trump had the opposite effect. You know, he

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Speaker 3: was able to squeeze out every every possible vote where

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Speaker 3: Harris wasn't. And so yeah, you have people who didn't vote,

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Speaker 3: who couldn't bring himself they would never vote for Trump vote,

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Speaker 3: we may never vote for a Republican perhaps most likely

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Speaker 3: they you know, they just sort of said, well, I just,

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Speaker 3: you know, wake up on our election morning and I

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Speaker 3: hope Harris is one, but you know, I just can't

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Speaker 3: bring myself to actually vote for uh uh. And now

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Speaker 3: that Trump's president, they wish he wasn't and they're willing

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Speaker 3: to say so, but they're not moved sufficiently to say

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Speaker 3: anything particularly enthusiastic about the other side.

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Speaker 2: Let us take a side road just for a moment.

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Speaker 2: You mentioned Harris. She was Did you know that she

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Speaker 2: was down in Australia just last week?

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Speaker 3: I did. Yes, It's got a little bit of play

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Speaker 3: in this part of the world.

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Speaker 2: That's more than that deserved. She was she was appearing

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Speaker 2: at a real estate conference in Queensland. In Queensland, did

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Speaker 2: you see any of her speech?

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Speaker 3: Just literally just like a SoundBite or two.

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Speaker 2: The well, let's put it this way, Sky News Australia

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Speaker 2: just took the took the bat to her. Is she

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Speaker 2: just what on earth was she doing there? Why on

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Speaker 2: earth did she come? What did they get it down?

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Speaker 2: For for heaven's sake, word salad all over again.

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Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, oh yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 2: It was just the same, just exactly the same same

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Speaker 2: approach that she used just before. Nothing's changed. She's got

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Speaker 2: no show of ever becoming president.

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Speaker 3: No, no, she's incapable of learning, doesn't really want to learn.

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Speaker 3: Still doesn't understand why she lost, expected to win, and

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Speaker 3: you know, fair chance to run for governor of California,

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Speaker 3: and if she does, she probably wins, because you know,

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Speaker 3: someone like her wins in California and in her own head,

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Speaker 3: the last presidential election will just be this inexplicable blip

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Speaker 3: in her career. But yeah, it's you have been I mean,

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Speaker 3: I say, I haven't didn't see the whole speech, but

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Speaker 3: where you know, the exposure that she's had since so

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Speaker 3: many people comment on how especially relieved they are how

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Speaker 3: the election went when they are reminded of who would

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Speaker 3: have been president if it had gone another way. Rights,

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Speaker 3: it's something that is, you know, implicitly helping Trump. It's

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Speaker 3: the contrast with Biden, but but with what Biden was.

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Speaker 3: And there's also the contrast with what Harris would have been.

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Speaker 3: And you know, sometimes you're very unlucky with your opponents

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Speaker 3: or enemies, and sometimes you are quite lucky, and Job

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Speaker 3: was quite lucky in the end that it was Biden.

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Speaker 3: And then Harris, so.

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Speaker 2: I think this is the first time we've spoken since

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Speaker 2: since the election night. And and then we all, you know,

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Speaker 2: in this part of the world, we went on holiday,

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Speaker 2: and what have you. I'd like your personal opinion, not

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Speaker 2: your official one, your personal opinion on how Trump is doing.

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Speaker 2: How would you rate him? I don't care how you

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Speaker 2: approach this on various matters, but overall, what do you say.

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Speaker 3: Well, I'd give him. I give him an A plus

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Speaker 3: for effort to this point, and I'd give him an

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Speaker 3: a to anus in terms of outcomes. And as a

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Speaker 3: sort of general statement, I based it on the fact

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Speaker 3: that second terms, which of course this is usually underwhelming,

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Speaker 3: maybe unkind, but they tend to be more of a

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Speaker 3: victory lap or a legacy lap than anything else. And

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Speaker 3: Trump could have taken his foot off the gas, as

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Speaker 3: they say, you know, you know, vengeance or endorsement of

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Speaker 3: him belatedly after what happened in twenty twenty. But no,

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Speaker 3: he has approached his second term in a way that's

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Speaker 3: even more impactful than he attempted in his first and

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Speaker 3: more impactful and I think ultimately consequential. The most presidents

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Speaker 3: do in their first terms, to say they blew out

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Speaker 3: of the gate is putting it, you know, mildly. I mean,

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Speaker 3: they were so prepared, They were so much better prepared

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Speaker 3: this time. He and those around him clearly learned so

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Speaker 3: many painful lessons from twenty seventeen eighteen especially, And while

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Speaker 3: he hasn't got it all right in terms of personnel,

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Speaker 3: and I don't think he's made all the right moves,

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Speaker 3: I think most of the movie have been have been

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Speaker 3: very positive. Most of the people that he has put

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Speaker 3: around him are far superior than the one His team

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Speaker 3: is far superior than the one he had in twenty seventeen.

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Speaker 3: And the enormous number of areas that he's attempting to,

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Speaker 3: you know, initiate really significant structural reform. You know, it's

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Speaker 3: always said that, I mean prime ministers often don't have

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Speaker 3: that in parliamentaris and have that much leeway and two

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Speaker 3: or three issues may do it. But with presidents, especially

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Speaker 3: American presidents, you know, two or three things you can

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Speaker 3: focus on and hope to get a fair bit of

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Speaker 3: what you're looking for in your first term. And Trump

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Speaker 3: is just you know, throwing out that playbook, especially for

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Speaker 3: a second term, and just going for it, you know,

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Speaker 3: across the board. And this is this is I think

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Speaker 3: it's two very strong positives politically out of this. One

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Speaker 3: is it has really pleasantly surprised, impressed, reassured most of

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Speaker 3: those who voted for him that he was serious about

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Speaker 3: the things he was said he wanted to do. And secondly,

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Speaker 3: it has totally depressed the opposition. It is because they

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Speaker 3: one hoped he wasn't serious as they had hoped in

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Speaker 3: his first term, but they would thinking, well, you know,

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Speaker 3: first month, he'll try this, second or third month, he'll

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Speaker 3: try that, and they'll be able to do their usual

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Speaker 3: you know, pounce on it, go push back on it,

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Speaker 3: media attacks, all of that. But of course he's been

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Speaker 3: ann he was announcing this first hundred days, you know,

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Speaker 3: new policies, not his every day, but every hour on

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Speaker 3: a whole host of different issues. So they have just

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Speaker 3: been completely bewildered, just spinning around like you know, tops

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Speaker 3: out of control, which is meant that the it's been

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Speaker 3: very very hard for the opposition, the criticism of any

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Speaker 3: of these individual policies to get enough attention to even

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Speaker 3: potentially stick. And it's really meant that the Twite House

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Speaker 3: has been on the front foot. The Democrats have been

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Speaker 3: very much on the back foot, and so it's I

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Speaker 3: think it's just very very encouraging.

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Speaker 2: Would you say that the Democrats picking up the pieces

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Speaker 2: and making progress in the direction they'd like to?

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Speaker 3: No, I wouldn't. I don't they have been. I'm actually

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Speaker 3: surprised at how poorly they've they've dealt with it. They

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Speaker 3: are still clueless as to what happened. They now accept,

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Speaker 3: they acknowledge now that you know that yes, a lot

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Speaker 3: of young people voted for Trump, and that you know

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Speaker 3: a lot of Hispanics did, and a surprising number of

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Speaker 3: black people, particularly black men, and there's all these poor

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Speaker 3: people who voted for Trump. They now accept that, which

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Speaker 3: they always resisted in twenty sixteen, after twenty sixteen, and

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Speaker 3: again after twenty twenty, But they don't have the first

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Speaker 3: idea why. You're right, there's still very much of the

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Speaker 3: mindset that Trump and Musk and the other mysterious figures,

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Speaker 3: other nefarious figures, somehow we're able to conn all these uneducated,

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Speaker 3: unsophisticated people to vote for him, and they the notion

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Speaker 3: that their message was wrong, their candidates candidate was wrong

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Speaker 3: about all of that, and they're having real trouble coming

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Speaker 3: to terms. I mean, it's always difficult and you lose

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Speaker 3: to actually look in the mirror and go, you know

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Speaker 3: a lot of it was my fault. But they're not

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Speaker 3: even close to doing that. So you know, that's you know,

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Speaker 3: that's really good news for Trump and the Republicans. Of course,

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Speaker 3: you know, come the mid terms, come the next presidential elections,

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Speaker 3: as usual, it will probably be more about the incumbent

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Speaker 3: party and the won't be the incumbent president, but you know,

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Speaker 3: if it's the vice come and vice president, then it

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Speaker 3: will be about the opposition. So if things have seemed

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Speaker 3: to go poorly over the next two or three years,

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Speaker 3: then even if they don't get their act together, they

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Speaker 3: may slip in again, you know, because they're but like

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Speaker 3: you know, the Labor Party did in England in the UK,

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Speaker 3: because they're not the unpopular incumbent. But at the moment,

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Speaker 3: it looks like things will really have to go off

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Speaker 3: the rails for the Trump administration for the Democrats to

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Speaker 3: have a good chance next time around.

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Speaker 2: Depending depending on the media that you that you attend. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: you could be forgiven for thinking that lots and lots

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Speaker 2: is going wrong with the Trump adminstration.

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Speaker 3: Oh my goodness. Yeah, I mean things the media tells us,

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Speaker 3: has told us from day one. I mean it's incredible.

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Speaker 3: I mean, inflation is up, the economy is crashing, the

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Speaker 3: stock market's trashing. Trump is even more unpopular in his

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Speaker 3: second term with foreign leaders and foreign electorates than he

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Speaker 3: was in this term. He has really incompetent in people. Really,

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Speaker 3: the visive cabinet secretaries. The policies aren't thought out, they're

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Speaker 3: they're coldheartedly callously firing you know, wonderful government public service workers,

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Speaker 3: willy nilly. Uh, it's just I mean just taking a

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Speaker 3: wrecking ball to important programs. I mean, this is you know,

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Speaker 3: this has been the word from day one, and that

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Speaker 3: there's two problems with that in terms of getting an

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Speaker 3: audience or getting an audience, you know, a sort of

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Speaker 3: majority audience, critical mass to to go with that. One

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Speaker 3: is when any of any of those claims or at

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Speaker 3: tax or investigator that they're demonstrably untrue or you know, inaccurate. Uh.

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Speaker 3: And also the media, you know, is even less trusted

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Speaker 3: than it was four years ago, uh, you know, the

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Speaker 3: trend line continues down is the legacy media is just

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Speaker 3: you know, the first thing a lot of people think

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Speaker 3: when they see a CNN headline or a New York

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Speaker 3: Times headline, they think, oh my, be the opposite then, right,

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Speaker 3: I mean, it's just they've just cried wolf, told too

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Speaker 3: many lies too many times. So at the moment, it's

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Speaker 3: it's just not paying off. But as I say, you know,

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Speaker 3: things turn you know, figuratively south in terms of policy outcomes,

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Speaker 3: then more people will think the media is onto something.

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Speaker 3: But you know, most people know the media is going

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Speaker 3: to attempt to destroy Trump's second term the way they

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Speaker 3: it is. First, I mean, there was a statistic I

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Speaker 3: just earlier today from the Media Research Center on you know,

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Speaker 3: they regularly update the nature of the coverage of any

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Speaker 3: given president, and Trump's coverage so far in his second

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Speaker 3: term is something like ninety one or ninety two percent negative,

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Speaker 3: whereas Biden's was something like sixty five seventy percent positive.

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Speaker 3: And you know, it's you know, that's just the way

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Speaker 3: it is in America. Fortunately, as I say, increasingly people

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Speaker 3: don't believe legacy media, and also the independent alternative media

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Speaker 3: is thriving. And so there are other sources more generally

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Speaker 3: more reliable, and certainly contrasting that more and more people

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Speaker 3: actually pay more and more attention to.

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Speaker 2: If I want to suggest that the situation that the

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Speaker 2: Democrats find themselves in has a great deal to do

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Speaker 2: with their collective low IQ, you would say.

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Speaker 3: Well, I would say I personally, I pretended to say yes,

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Speaker 3: I mean professionally, I would say they are incredibly, almost

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Speaker 3: unbelievably uninformed and ill informed. It's to the point where,

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Speaker 3: in terms of the politicians, you have to ask yourself,

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Speaker 3: do they actually believe what they're saying or is it

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Speaker 3: simply a con right? You know? Is it just a

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Speaker 3: means to an end when it comes to ordinary folk

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Speaker 3: who loyally vote for them and will tell you how

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Speaker 3: terrible Trump is and all the rest of it, a

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Speaker 3: lot of it is. I think it's just it's just

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Speaker 3: lack of quality information. But you you know, I would

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Speaker 3: I would. I would say the IQ of the iriage

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Speaker 3: democratic voter is probably quite a bit higher than the

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Speaker 3: IQ of the ariage democratic politician. It appears if ifyone

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Speaker 3: takes them at their word, that they are well intentioned,

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Speaker 3: well meaning, and you know, genuine people I'm.

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Speaker 2: Just wondering about your your reference to information, getting bad information,

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Speaker 2: wrong information, et cetera. And if you and if you

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Speaker 2: equate that to IQ, surely the two go hand in hand.

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Speaker 2: In most cases, if you've got a low IQ, you

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Speaker 2: don't even know you're getting bad information or or or

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Speaker 2: you or you're treating it as a weapon even even

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Speaker 2: though you recognize it. So you're you're not only not

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Speaker 2: only trying to fool your voting public, but you're actually

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Speaker 2: having yourself on a bit as well.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, no, there's say something of that. And I think

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Speaker 3: another thing that plays into this in America. I mean

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Speaker 3: very a lot of the West, but America is the

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Speaker 3: probably the best example, is there are so many well educated,

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Speaker 3: formally well educated, very well educated people who are actually

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Speaker 3: actually know very little about things. Right there, we become

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Speaker 3: such a credentialed society. This is this is This is

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Speaker 3: across the board, but it's especially on the left. Right,

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Speaker 3: you have so many people and it scus excus female

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Speaker 3: and excus minorities. There's something like sixty five seventy percent

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Speaker 3: of black women in Black American women with degrees work

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Speaker 3: for the government. Right, and what that means if you

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Speaker 3: drill down is they work in human resources and communications

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Speaker 3: and this, et cetera, et cetera, and they've been educated

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Speaker 3: in a way that is not helpful to learning how

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Speaker 3: the world really works. And you know, they continue along

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Speaker 3: that path in their careers and in their voting habits.

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Speaker 3: So it's you know, you have a lot of people.

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Speaker 3: I'm not saying this to counter what you said late,

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Speaker 3: but just to sort of flesh it out a bit

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Speaker 3: from my end, I think you have a lot of

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Speaker 3: people on the left who believe that they are very

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Speaker 3: bright because they have never been they never been, never

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Speaker 3: failed anything, because they've been allowed to fail. They've always

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Speaker 3: been passed, pushed on, passed through. And they think that

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Speaker 3: their degrees and certificates on the wall and their business

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Speaker 3: cards entitle them to be really good judges, to have

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Speaker 3: very good judgment when it comes to what's good and

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Speaker 3: bad information, when in fact it's the opposite. You know,

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Speaker 3: they they are they are so deferential when it comes

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Speaker 3: to the experts, that is, the approved experts, that they're unquestioning.

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Speaker 3: And of course this is what you want. If you

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Speaker 3: want a controlling, top down kind of ideology, take route

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Speaker 3: which it has you know, massive parts of the country.

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Speaker 3: And so it's whether there is it that they're really

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Speaker 3: not very bright, or is it just that they're poorly educated,

400
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Speaker 3: or is it some combination of the two self deceit. Yeah,

401
00:25:24,853 --> 00:25:27,133
Speaker 3: there's yeah, there's definitely a lot of that. I mean,

402
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Speaker 3: you know, there's there's plenty on the other side too,

403
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Speaker 3: But it's not they don't tend to they don't tend

404
00:25:31,373 --> 00:25:33,813
Speaker 3: to be politically, they don't tend to be as influential

405
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Speaker 3: to to have these sort of key roles, not in

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Speaker 3: you know, in in government, in Congress, in terms of

407
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Speaker 3: the staff and advisory roles you think of, you know,

408
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Speaker 3: the Clinton administration, especially the Obama the Biden administration, many

409
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Speaker 3: of these people were the same. But you have in

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Speaker 3: the Obama and Biden administrations so many of these twenty

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Speaker 3: thirty somethings, graduates of Ivy League universities, you know, dictating

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Speaker 3: foreign policy and tax policy and health policy, who clearly

413
00:26:04,493 --> 00:26:09,173
Speaker 3: demonstrably knew very very little about what they were talking about, right,

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Speaker 3: But they spent all day talking to each other and

415
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Speaker 3: to those in the academy and in the NGOs and

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Speaker 3: the think tanks of the same background profile and views,

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Speaker 3: and continued every day waking up every day thinking that

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Speaker 3: they were the brightest people on the planet and we

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Speaker 3: were all should be very grateful that they're willing to

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Speaker 3: spend some time each day telling us how we should

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Speaker 3: live our lives.

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Speaker 2: Where would you put Harvard these days?

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Speaker 3: As far out of America as I could get it,

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Speaker 3: It's I mean, it's Harvard most of the Ivy League.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it's so it's completely different to what it

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Speaker 3: used to be. But I mean, these the more elite

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Speaker 3: the educational institution in America, the further it is fallen,

428
00:26:52,733 --> 00:26:55,493
Speaker 3: it appears as a sort of general statement, right, I mean,

429
00:26:55,653 --> 00:27:03,933
Speaker 3: they're so politicized, they're so cowardly, they're so ideological, and

430
00:27:03,973 --> 00:27:07,813
Speaker 3: they're also so money or money centered, which you know,

431
00:27:07,853 --> 00:27:11,813
Speaker 3: you've got a Harvard with its tens of billions of

432
00:27:12,733 --> 00:27:15,493
Speaker 3: endowment money doesn't need a penny from a student or

433
00:27:15,493 --> 00:27:20,293
Speaker 3: a government forever. But boy, they're you know, they're going

434
00:27:20,333 --> 00:27:23,413
Speaker 3: to sue the federal government if they're taking away the

435
00:27:23,453 --> 00:27:26,693
Speaker 3: billions that the federal government the taxpayers give them every year.

436
00:27:28,253 --> 00:27:31,173
Speaker 3: It's it's quite remarkable. And we know that the Harvards

437
00:27:31,173 --> 00:27:35,933
Speaker 3: of this world have been the incubators of so much

438
00:27:36,013 --> 00:27:39,693
Speaker 3: of the crazy wokeness that is not not only threatened

439
00:27:39,693 --> 00:27:43,773
Speaker 3: to destroy the universicities themselves, but of course put the

440
00:27:43,773 --> 00:27:48,053
Speaker 3: corporate world and especially the political world. So I mean,

441
00:27:48,093 --> 00:27:52,093
Speaker 3: what what Trump is doing attempting to do with the

442
00:27:52,213 --> 00:27:56,933
Speaker 3: likes of Harvard is something that Democrats fall into the

443
00:27:56,973 --> 00:28:00,373
Speaker 3: trap of the of of countering and defending the institute,

444
00:28:00,493 --> 00:28:06,453
Speaker 3: the university, not realizing that for most people, what Trump

445
00:28:06,533 --> 00:28:09,653
Speaker 3: is saying and what he's demonstrating, you know, makes complete sense.

446
00:28:10,093 --> 00:28:14,093
Speaker 3: But the Democrats it seemed just to sort of slightly

447
00:28:14,133 --> 00:28:16,733
Speaker 3: circle back late for a moment. One of the probably

448
00:28:16,773 --> 00:28:19,693
Speaker 3: the thing that's most going in Trump's favor, you put

449
00:28:19,733 --> 00:28:22,173
Speaker 3: aside anything he is or isn't doing, what the outcomes

450
00:28:22,253 --> 00:28:24,373
Speaker 3: may or may not be at the moment, what's most

451
00:28:24,413 --> 00:28:27,613
Speaker 3: helpful to him is that for the time being, at least,

452
00:28:27,893 --> 00:28:31,093
Speaker 3: the Democrats appear to have decided that they are going

453
00:28:31,133 --> 00:28:39,413
Speaker 3: to hang their hats on defending federal bureaucrats, foreign aid recipients,

454
00:28:39,493 --> 00:28:45,373
Speaker 3: particularly those in the NGOs at home, domestically illegal immigrants,

455
00:28:45,853 --> 00:28:50,693
Speaker 3: and transgender people, and they seem to be very very

456
00:28:50,813 --> 00:28:58,453
Speaker 3: enthusiastic about defending, supporting protecting those four groups. And the

457
00:28:58,693 --> 00:29:03,213
Speaker 3: problem is that to say those four groups don't constitute

458
00:29:04,213 --> 00:29:07,813
Speaker 3: electoral majority or appeal to one. It's putting a very

459
00:29:07,853 --> 00:29:10,853
Speaker 3: very gender So as long as they keep doing that,

460
00:29:11,213 --> 00:29:15,253
Speaker 3: they will remain in sort of pretty poor spot.

461
00:29:16,213 --> 00:29:20,173
Speaker 2: Well buried in that commentary you've just delivered is a

462
00:29:20,253 --> 00:29:22,813
Speaker 2: very good explanation of why an ex prime minister of

463
00:29:22,853 --> 00:29:30,013
Speaker 2: this country found yourself employed at Harvard. Yes, now, based

464
00:29:30,053 --> 00:29:32,813
Speaker 2: on what you've said, I'm going to ask you to

465
00:29:32,893 --> 00:29:38,813
Speaker 2: extend your commentary to deal with the judiciary, and that

466
00:29:38,933 --> 00:29:44,373
Speaker 2: is that is specifically the Supreme Judiciary, but at further

467
00:29:44,413 --> 00:29:47,213
Speaker 2: down if you if you choose to go, but can

468
00:29:47,293 --> 00:29:49,773
Speaker 2: I make a suggestion to try and stir you on,

469
00:29:50,333 --> 00:29:57,253
Speaker 2: And that is that the amount of authoritarian attitude, if

470
00:29:57,253 --> 00:30:00,773
Speaker 2: I can put it that way, or some might even

471
00:30:00,813 --> 00:30:03,653
Speaker 2: call it tyranny. If not, if not yet, then on

472
00:30:04,053 --> 00:30:07,893
Speaker 2: its way judicial tyranny is having a very big influence

473
00:30:08,053 --> 00:30:12,133
Speaker 2: on the progress of the administration. Right or wrong?

474
00:30:13,333 --> 00:30:15,493
Speaker 3: Oh? Absolutely, right, one and ten percent right.

475
00:30:15,533 --> 00:30:22,173
Speaker 2: But I is the judiciary right, Yes, absolutely, and I

476
00:30:22,173 --> 00:30:22,773
Speaker 2: would put it.

477
00:30:22,933 --> 00:30:26,213
Speaker 3: I would place it in the following context if I may,

478
00:30:26,253 --> 00:30:30,453
Speaker 3: which is that the opposition to Trump, that sort of

479
00:30:30,653 --> 00:30:36,053
Speaker 3: big umbrella I'm including the politicians, the media, the judiciary,

480
00:30:37,053 --> 00:30:41,453
Speaker 3: the bureaucracy, all of the institutional opposition to Trump from

481
00:30:41,493 --> 00:30:45,933
Speaker 3: the very beginning right. So in twenty twenty, they decide

482
00:30:45,973 --> 00:30:48,573
Speaker 3: they can impeach him, try to impeach him and prevent

483
00:30:48,693 --> 00:30:52,173
Speaker 3: him from running for a second term. That doesn't work,

484
00:30:52,293 --> 00:30:55,293
Speaker 3: so they stuff enough ballots to stop him from having

485
00:30:55,293 --> 00:30:58,973
Speaker 3: a second term. And then when he protests that, they

486
00:30:59,013 --> 00:31:00,893
Speaker 3: try to impeach him to stop him from being able

487
00:31:00,933 --> 00:31:04,533
Speaker 3: to run again. That doesn't work, so they try to

488
00:31:04,573 --> 00:31:07,453
Speaker 3: bankrupt him through the courts. Then they try to imprison

489
00:31:07,533 --> 00:31:10,493
Speaker 3: him through the court of That works, and then coincidentally,

490
00:31:10,533 --> 00:31:15,053
Speaker 3: I'm sure twice he's there's attempts to assassinate him. None

491
00:31:15,093 --> 00:31:18,253
Speaker 3: of it works. He's back in. And I think many

492
00:31:18,333 --> 00:31:25,493
Speaker 3: people on both sides assumed and hoped that that would

493
00:31:25,573 --> 00:31:28,613
Speaker 3: be it. Oh well, somehow if you didn't like him,

494
00:31:28,613 --> 00:31:30,493
Speaker 3: this crazy guy's back in. We only got to put

495
00:31:30,533 --> 00:31:32,613
Speaker 3: up with it for four years. And on the on

496
00:31:32,653 --> 00:31:35,373
Speaker 3: the on the Trump side, it's like they've shot every

497
00:31:35,413 --> 00:31:38,413
Speaker 3: bullet they had. There's nothing else they can do. Well,

498
00:31:38,613 --> 00:31:41,693
Speaker 3: guess what they had more ready and waiting, And of

499
00:31:41,733 --> 00:31:45,453
Speaker 3: course what they had waiting was the judiciary, and so

500
00:31:45,613 --> 00:31:50,133
Speaker 3: what has happened since the very moment Trump was sort

501
00:31:50,133 --> 00:31:55,733
Speaker 3: of reinaugurated, uh in late January, was that the judiciary

502
00:31:55,893 --> 00:32:01,573
Speaker 3: has taken upon itself to be the most disloyal opposition

503
00:32:02,053 --> 00:32:05,173
Speaker 3: and to do everything to not eliminate Trump, but to

504
00:32:05,333 --> 00:32:09,133
Speaker 3: eliminate any possible progress on the polar side that he

505
00:32:09,173 --> 00:32:13,133
Speaker 3: could make. And where this really comes, where this is

506
00:32:13,173 --> 00:32:16,573
Speaker 3: playing out, it's playing at the federal level. Because there's

507
00:32:16,653 --> 00:32:20,853
Speaker 3: a federal system. There's a Supreme Court that everybody knows about.

508
00:32:21,853 --> 00:32:24,653
Speaker 3: And then you think, of course at the state level

509
00:32:24,733 --> 00:32:28,013
Speaker 3: or local level, but there are federal courts that are

510
00:32:28,053 --> 00:32:33,773
Speaker 3: that are divided regionally in America that supposedly Supreme Court

511
00:32:34,013 --> 00:32:36,853
Speaker 3: justice as they each have a number of them to

512
00:32:36,853 --> 00:32:43,453
Speaker 3: sort of oversee. Those courts are the ones that are determining,

513
00:32:43,933 --> 00:32:46,853
Speaker 3: at least in the short term that you name the

514
00:32:46,973 --> 00:32:52,373
Speaker 3: policy of Trump, it's unconstitutional slash illegal. So Trump can't

515
00:32:52,373 --> 00:32:56,253
Speaker 3: close the Department of Education, according to the court, Trump

516
00:32:56,293 --> 00:33:00,853
Speaker 3: can't close USAID. Trump can't fire federal workers. You know,

517
00:33:01,013 --> 00:33:04,213
Speaker 3: Trump can't attempt to broke a piece in the Middle

518
00:33:04,253 --> 00:33:07,213
Speaker 3: East or Ukraine. Trump can't raise tariffs. You know, it

519
00:33:07,253 --> 00:33:10,213
Speaker 3: doesn't matter what it is some court somewhere has said

520
00:33:10,613 --> 00:33:13,853
Speaker 3: he can't do it, and one of the really, I mean,

521
00:33:13,853 --> 00:33:17,253
Speaker 3: we know, we know why it's happening because these judges,

522
00:33:17,293 --> 00:33:22,133
Speaker 3: and they're not all Democrats, but those that are Republican

523
00:33:22,933 --> 00:33:29,853
Speaker 3: are anti Trump Republicans, and the judicial mindset and psychology

524
00:33:29,933 --> 00:33:33,253
Speaker 3: across the board conservative, liberal, Republican Democrat tends to be

525
00:33:33,293 --> 00:33:35,013
Speaker 3: And this is just gets back to something you touched

526
00:33:35,053 --> 00:33:37,733
Speaker 3: on in your introduction to the question, Laton, which is

527
00:33:37,813 --> 00:33:43,413
Speaker 3: there's an authoritarian mindset. Okay, these folks are very deferential

528
00:33:43,733 --> 00:33:47,093
Speaker 3: to power in an institutional sense. They are pro establishment,

529
00:33:47,133 --> 00:33:51,173
Speaker 3: they're pro big business, they're pro big government. They will

530
00:33:51,453 --> 00:33:56,333
Speaker 3: enormous all cases. Their default position is to go with

531
00:33:56,533 --> 00:34:03,493
Speaker 3: the powerful force and to not be sympathetic to the contrarian,

532
00:34:04,093 --> 00:34:08,533
Speaker 3: the little guy, the outsider, all that. And that's I mean,

533
00:34:09,093 --> 00:34:12,213
Speaker 3: you could say always been the case. But when you

534
00:34:12,213 --> 00:34:15,373
Speaker 3: get to figure the ultimate outside of like Trump, with

535
00:34:15,493 --> 00:34:20,293
Speaker 3: the entire system against him, these folks don't see themselves

536
00:34:20,453 --> 00:34:25,853
Speaker 3: as arbiters of justice. They see themselves as instruments of

537
00:34:25,893 --> 00:34:31,293
Speaker 3: the system because in their minds, the just outcome is,

538
00:34:31,333 --> 00:34:36,053
Speaker 3: of course, to limit Trump's power. And so this is

539
00:34:36,053 --> 00:34:39,133
Speaker 3: what's been playing out now. It's been allowed to play

540
00:34:39,173 --> 00:34:42,733
Speaker 3: out because the Supreme Court, which is led by a

541
00:34:42,813 --> 00:34:46,573
Speaker 3: Chief Justice in Roberts, who is off of this ilk

542
00:34:46,733 --> 00:34:50,813
Speaker 3: even though he's quote unquote a conservative Republican. They they

543
00:34:50,853 --> 00:34:53,453
Speaker 3: didn't take their opportunity to sort of cut this stuff

544
00:34:53,653 --> 00:34:55,853
Speaker 3: off at the pass, and it's going to come back

545
00:34:55,853 --> 00:34:57,773
Speaker 3: to them and they're going to have to decide one

546
00:34:57,853 --> 00:35:03,933
Speaker 3: way or another. And also, these courts, they're all congressionally mandated.

547
00:35:04,013 --> 00:35:06,053
Speaker 3: There's nothing in the Constitution that says that we should

548
00:35:06,053 --> 00:35:08,133
Speaker 3: have is a Supreme Court, but there's nothing about all

549
00:35:08,133 --> 00:35:12,053
Speaker 3: these federal courts. And so they are a product of Congress,

550
00:35:12,093 --> 00:35:13,973
Speaker 3: which means Congress can do something about it. They can

551
00:35:14,013 --> 00:35:16,453
Speaker 3: impeach the judges, all these things. These are all things

552
00:35:16,453 --> 00:35:19,973
Speaker 3: that may happen, but we're looking at a situation where

553
00:35:20,533 --> 00:35:23,213
Speaker 3: it could be before too long if the Supreme Court

554
00:35:23,333 --> 00:35:27,733
Speaker 3: continues to act in a cowardly way or actually rules

555
00:35:27,973 --> 00:35:31,773
Speaker 3: in an irrational way, a logical way, where Trump is

556
00:35:31,813 --> 00:35:35,013
Speaker 3: going to be faced with either complying with this madness

557
00:35:35,413 --> 00:35:37,893
Speaker 3: or simply saying as some of his predecessors have done

558
00:35:38,333 --> 00:35:43,813
Speaker 3: in which is sorry, you know, not doing it, you know.

559
00:35:44,813 --> 00:35:48,173
Speaker 3: And so this is it's a really scary time, but

560
00:35:48,333 --> 00:35:52,333
Speaker 3: one which is blatantly getting some attention. But you know,

561
00:35:52,413 --> 00:35:53,733
Speaker 3: this is where we find ourselves.

562
00:35:54,093 --> 00:35:55,733
Speaker 2: How uncomfortable does that make you feel?

563
00:35:57,293 --> 00:36:05,893
Speaker 3: Very It's another example of how a historically traditionally pillar

564
00:36:06,053 --> 00:36:12,533
Speaker 3: of American society, American American way of life, he has

565
00:36:13,093 --> 00:36:19,853
Speaker 3: been watered down, harmed. Uh And and so many people

566
00:36:20,213 --> 00:36:24,693
Speaker 3: are just so surprised and literally shocked, bewildered and then

567
00:36:25,693 --> 00:36:29,493
Speaker 3: really offended by what's going on. And of course some

568
00:36:29,533 --> 00:36:32,253
Speaker 3: people are asking, well, did this happen yesterday or is

569
00:36:32,293 --> 00:36:35,213
Speaker 3: this something that's been going on for years or decades?

570
00:36:35,773 --> 00:36:40,293
Speaker 3: Uh And Unfortunately, the more one drills down, the uglier

571
00:36:40,373 --> 00:36:44,453
Speaker 3: the answer has become. Because as I'm sure you know you,

572
00:36:44,493 --> 00:36:46,173
Speaker 3: and I know you know late, and I'm sure many

573
00:36:46,213 --> 00:36:48,373
Speaker 3: of your audience does, as what much of your audience

574
00:36:48,373 --> 00:36:51,853
Speaker 3: does as well, that most of the things we object to,

575
00:36:51,893 --> 00:36:55,813
Speaker 3: the really serious things in the world these days, they're

576
00:36:55,853 --> 00:36:58,853
Speaker 3: not something that was thought up yesterday morning. There were

577
00:36:58,893 --> 00:37:01,053
Speaker 3: mostly things that were forced up and first acted upon

578
00:37:01,213 --> 00:37:04,973
Speaker 3: last century at least, that are now coming. You know,

579
00:37:05,173 --> 00:37:09,253
Speaker 3: they're they're now coming to a fruition. And the judicial,

580
00:37:09,453 --> 00:37:14,253
Speaker 3: the real the way in which the the perversion of

581
00:37:13,613 --> 00:37:17,813
Speaker 3: the judiciary, at least at the federal level. Uh, you know,

582
00:37:17,813 --> 00:37:23,053
Speaker 3: it's coming to the four And it's as I say,

583
00:37:23,173 --> 00:37:25,293
Speaker 3: is that they weren't out of bullets. They still had

584
00:37:25,973 --> 00:37:27,893
Speaker 3: a couple left in the in the chamber.

585
00:37:29,133 --> 00:37:31,693
Speaker 2: Funny. It's funny how things turn up, you know, because

586
00:37:33,173 --> 00:37:34,773
Speaker 2: all I had to do was reach out and pick

587
00:37:34,813 --> 00:37:39,013
Speaker 2: this up. You mentioned bullets, big bank boss urges America

588
00:37:39,053 --> 00:37:43,893
Speaker 2: to stockpiled bullets, not bitcoin. I that was. That was

589
00:37:43,973 --> 00:37:47,053
Speaker 2: Jamie Diamond, by the way. Yeah, who's had a lot

590
00:37:47,133 --> 00:37:49,053
Speaker 2: to say over the over the weekend, not all of

591
00:37:49,093 --> 00:37:53,173
Speaker 2: it encouraging. Now if I or did you want to

592
00:37:53,173 --> 00:37:53,733
Speaker 2: comment on.

593
00:37:53,613 --> 00:37:55,813
Speaker 3: That, No, No, it's just I mean, it's a sort

594
00:37:55,853 --> 00:37:57,933
Speaker 3: of sidebar on Jamie Diamond. The thing that I was

595
00:37:57,973 --> 00:38:01,133
Speaker 3: pleasantly surprised about the price about with his comments is

596
00:38:01,133 --> 00:38:06,693
Speaker 3: that he really explained some a little bit of reality

597
00:38:06,733 --> 00:38:11,293
Speaker 3: on immigration to his alliance, which was quite shocking, talking

598
00:38:11,373 --> 00:38:15,493
Speaker 3: about how insane it had been to have had such

599
00:38:15,613 --> 00:38:17,773
Speaker 3: numbers come into the country and what had it done

600
00:38:18,013 --> 00:38:21,853
Speaker 3: in terms of worsening the quality of life material quality

601
00:38:21,853 --> 00:38:26,373
Speaker 3: of life of lower income Americans, and you know how

602
00:38:26,413 --> 00:38:28,093
Speaker 3: something had to be done about this I mean in

603
00:38:28,133 --> 00:38:31,693
Speaker 3: say any of this before, but it's better he says it.

604
00:38:31,733 --> 00:38:33,013
Speaker 3: I'm glad to know he thinks it, and it is

605
00:38:33,053 --> 00:38:34,093
Speaker 3: good that he's saying it now.

606
00:38:35,093 --> 00:38:38,053
Speaker 2: Indeed, I don't want to spend too much time on

607
00:38:37,933 --> 00:38:40,693
Speaker 2: the media because we've we've done plenty of that over

608
00:38:40,853 --> 00:38:44,093
Speaker 2: over a period of time, and we've we've already mentioned

609
00:38:44,093 --> 00:38:48,693
Speaker 2: that a little today. But as this individual is part

610
00:38:48,733 --> 00:38:50,893
Speaker 2: of the media, I'm going to throw them in here.

611
00:38:51,533 --> 00:38:55,293
Speaker 2: Jake Tapper, Yeah, the only thing that I want to say,

612
00:38:55,373 --> 00:39:01,493
Speaker 2: really is how does this irresponsible individual think that he

613
00:39:01,533 --> 00:39:04,253
Speaker 2: can lie the way that he is at the moment,

614
00:39:04,693 --> 00:39:07,133
Speaker 2: that he knew nothing, and that try and launch the

615
00:39:07,173 --> 00:39:10,813
Speaker 2: responsibility back on the on the on the White House

616
00:39:11,853 --> 00:39:15,813
Speaker 2: in itself because he had no idea. I don't believe

617
00:39:15,813 --> 00:39:18,213
Speaker 2: it where that guy says, I have not for a

618
00:39:18,293 --> 00:39:20,373
Speaker 2: very long time. He's just proven it for me.

619
00:39:21,853 --> 00:39:25,293
Speaker 3: I think it's because he and those of his ilk

620
00:39:25,893 --> 00:39:31,493
Speaker 3: have succeeded to this point saying whatever they wanted, whether

621
00:39:31,533 --> 00:39:34,413
Speaker 3: it was untrue or it was the complete opposite of

622
00:39:34,453 --> 00:39:36,333
Speaker 3: what they'd said yesterday and the opposite of what they'll

623
00:39:36,333 --> 00:39:39,853
Speaker 3: say tomorrow, and there's been no there'll be no consequences right,

624
00:39:39,933 --> 00:39:43,373
Speaker 3: their careers sored. They continue, they make all this money,

625
00:39:43,373 --> 00:39:46,533
Speaker 3: they get these great book contracts, and they live in

626
00:39:46,613 --> 00:39:51,573
Speaker 3: such a bubble that you know, they they never called

627
00:39:51,573 --> 00:39:56,253
Speaker 3: out on the carpet. And so someone in his case,

628
00:39:56,573 --> 00:40:01,773
Speaker 3: like many others, but most obviously him, who would not

629
00:40:02,213 --> 00:40:09,893
Speaker 3: hear one word about Biden's obvious cognitive and physiological decline

630
00:40:10,373 --> 00:40:13,373
Speaker 3: until Biden was out of the Oval office, turns around

631
00:40:13,413 --> 00:40:17,773
Speaker 3: and produces this expose book, explaining to the great Onwash

632
00:40:17,893 --> 00:40:21,733
Speaker 3: that Biden had been too lappy the whole time and

633
00:40:22,013 --> 00:40:25,333
Speaker 3: aren't I the brave journalists for you know, speaking truth

634
00:40:25,373 --> 00:40:29,613
Speaker 3: to power? And it's I mean, it is mind blowing,

635
00:40:30,013 --> 00:40:34,053
Speaker 3: the hypocrisy of it, the goal of it. And as

636
00:40:34,093 --> 00:40:37,853
Speaker 3: one of my friends reminds me frequently, whether you're talking

637
00:40:37,893 --> 00:40:40,853
Speaker 3: about the media, the legacy media, or your democrat, the

638
00:40:40,893 --> 00:40:43,533
Speaker 3: average democrat, and if they didn't have double standards, they

639
00:40:43,533 --> 00:40:47,373
Speaker 3: have no standards at all, And it is just it

640
00:40:47,693 --> 00:40:54,893
Speaker 3: is simply remarkable. Fortunately, it is so obviously ridiculous that

641
00:40:55,013 --> 00:40:59,573
Speaker 3: this person is trying to portray themselves as a discoverer

642
00:40:59,653 --> 00:41:04,253
Speaker 3: of truth that you know, there's at least a mixed response,

643
00:41:04,253 --> 00:41:09,493
Speaker 3: and the book itself is not selling, so we have

644
00:41:09,573 --> 00:41:13,133
Speaker 3: to hope that at least, you know, he's not rewarded

645
00:41:13,733 --> 00:41:16,253
Speaker 3: further for this. But it's yeah, I mean, the media

646
00:41:16,373 --> 00:41:19,573
Speaker 3: is just it's not it's not just a joke, the

647
00:41:19,653 --> 00:41:23,933
Speaker 3: legacy media. But it's actually dangerous when you consider not

648
00:41:23,973 --> 00:41:25,973
Speaker 3: only what they tell us that isn't so, but the

649
00:41:25,973 --> 00:41:29,013
Speaker 3: things that they simply ignore and refuse to tell us

650
00:41:29,413 --> 00:41:31,573
Speaker 3: that would have been helpful, to put it, malvedly to

651
00:41:31,613 --> 00:41:32,573
Speaker 3: know at the time.

652
00:41:33,253 --> 00:41:38,813
Speaker 2: Indeed, I've heard commentators say that critical commentators say they'll

653
00:41:38,853 --> 00:41:40,973
Speaker 2: be making He'll be making millions out of the book,

654
00:41:41,453 --> 00:41:43,773
Speaker 2: and I thought, no, he won't because no one's going

655
00:41:43,813 --> 00:41:45,573
Speaker 2: to want to read it. On very few.

656
00:41:45,533 --> 00:41:49,213
Speaker 3: Now, he may have. He may have got a good advance,

657
00:41:49,693 --> 00:41:52,453
Speaker 3: in which we know a lot of these that that's

658
00:41:52,453 --> 00:41:54,173
Speaker 3: how mean. It's just like you know, most most of

659
00:41:54,213 --> 00:41:58,213
Speaker 3: the politicians their books, it's all about the advance. Very

660
00:41:58,213 --> 00:42:00,293
Speaker 3: few of them actually sell a lot of books that

661
00:42:00,373 --> 00:42:04,893
Speaker 3: pay for the advance. So he may have had a

662
00:42:04,893 --> 00:42:07,613
Speaker 3: good deal, but you know, hopefully not.

663
00:42:08,653 --> 00:42:16,533
Speaker 2: Let's turn our attention to to overseas the South Korean election. Yeah,

664
00:42:16,653 --> 00:42:22,973
Speaker 2: as we record this, what's your take, Well, if the

665
00:42:23,053 --> 00:42:24,453
Speaker 2: polls are accurate.

666
00:42:25,053 --> 00:42:29,293
Speaker 3: Then at the moment, it's advantage mister Lee, the liberal

667
00:42:29,453 --> 00:42:36,013
Speaker 3: left wing candidate and mister Kim the conservative candidate. Looks

668
00:42:36,093 --> 00:42:40,253
Speaker 3: like it's an uphill battle to succeed mister Yun, the

669
00:42:40,293 --> 00:42:45,173
Speaker 3: recently displaced president from the same Conservative party. It's no,

670
00:42:45,293 --> 00:42:49,173
Speaker 3: it's it's a fascinating and potentially, i think for people

671
00:42:49,213 --> 00:42:53,093
Speaker 3: on the right of the spectrum, frustrating election because you know,

672
00:42:53,133 --> 00:42:57,093
Speaker 3: the context is the President Yun in descent, the conservative

673
00:42:57,213 --> 00:43:00,813
Speaker 3: you know, won the election three years ago against mister Lee.

674
00:43:02,813 --> 00:43:07,653
Speaker 3: He's you know, pro American, tough on North Korea, tough

675
00:43:07,693 --> 00:43:13,013
Speaker 3: on China, tough on the nuclear proliferation, you know, really

676
00:43:13,093 --> 00:43:17,253
Speaker 3: a lot of emphasis on the good US South Korean relationship.

677
00:43:17,733 --> 00:43:20,173
Speaker 3: But then in December he decides that you know, he

678
00:43:20,213 --> 00:43:23,333
Speaker 3: used to declare martial law. The fixes in against him,

679
00:43:24,013 --> 00:43:27,373
Speaker 3: and it all goes pair shape, right the parliament, the

680
00:43:27,413 --> 00:43:33,093
Speaker 3: parliament votes against him, the people seemingly, you know, figuratively

681
00:43:33,133 --> 00:43:37,253
Speaker 3: revolt against him, and then what April, the Constitutional Court

682
00:43:37,733 --> 00:43:42,973
Speaker 3: threw him out. So what appears to have happened is

683
00:43:43,053 --> 00:43:47,653
Speaker 3: that a race that otherwise would have been highly competitive,

684
00:43:47,733 --> 00:43:51,933
Speaker 3: maybe even advantage the Conservative has turned around because of

685
00:43:51,973 --> 00:43:54,373
Speaker 3: this obviously very important thing that happened. It's one thing

686
00:43:54,373 --> 00:44:01,653
Speaker 3: that's happened because there appears to be in in South

687
00:44:01,733 --> 00:44:07,973
Speaker 3: Korean society right now an incredible what fear of a

688
00:44:08,053 --> 00:44:10,813
Speaker 3: k They feel they've been a chaotic period for a

689
00:44:10,853 --> 00:44:16,773
Speaker 3: few months and that continuing if the Conservative succeeds ex

690
00:44:16,813 --> 00:44:19,813
Speaker 3: President Un. Whereas Lee, who was one of those who

691
00:44:19,853 --> 00:44:23,213
Speaker 3: sort of very much went to the forefront to protest

692
00:44:23,733 --> 00:44:27,813
Speaker 3: what the previous president was attempting to do, is seen

693
00:44:27,853 --> 00:44:30,533
Speaker 3: as a more steady, at least in this context, a

694
00:44:30,533 --> 00:44:34,253
Speaker 3: more steady pair of hands. And what seems to have

695
00:44:34,293 --> 00:44:38,693
Speaker 3: hurt the Conservatives as a party putting forward a candidate

696
00:44:38,813 --> 00:44:41,653
Speaker 3: is that the kind of elites of the party, the

697
00:44:41,733 --> 00:44:47,493
Speaker 3: establishment wanted someone less associated with the outgoing president. Mister Kim,

698
00:44:47,613 --> 00:44:49,893
Speaker 3: I think was the labor Minister and has been one

699
00:44:49,973 --> 00:44:52,533
Speaker 3: of his staunchest defenders and has really gone out of

700
00:44:52,533 --> 00:44:57,333
Speaker 3: his way not to explicitly criticize ex President Yun, and

701
00:44:58,013 --> 00:45:02,293
Speaker 3: but the sort of the base of the party, the

702
00:45:02,373 --> 00:45:06,453
Speaker 3: members wanted him, and they chose him, and he's seen,

703
00:45:06,813 --> 00:45:09,213
Speaker 3: rightly or wrongly, is not the strongest candidate probably in

704
00:45:09,373 --> 00:45:12,853
Speaker 3: under the circumstances, and so have a situation we have

705
00:45:12,933 --> 00:45:17,533
Speaker 3: this quite left wing chap in Lee, you know, who's

706
00:45:17,773 --> 00:45:20,693
Speaker 3: very much about playing nice with North Korea and China,

707
00:45:21,733 --> 00:45:24,613
Speaker 3: not too concerned about the relationship with America, and of

708
00:45:24,653 --> 00:45:28,213
Speaker 3: course America you know, potentially is going to dump this

709
00:45:28,373 --> 00:45:32,293
Speaker 3: huge tariffs on them within days. And Lee's got personal

710
00:45:32,453 --> 00:45:37,213
Speaker 3: and business history with North Korea. It's you know, he's

711
00:45:37,253 --> 00:45:42,573
Speaker 3: gone against US and UN sanctions by funding North Korea

712
00:45:42,653 --> 00:45:48,293
Speaker 3: to tune of several million. And it's a you would think,

713
00:45:48,373 --> 00:45:51,933
Speaker 3: under quote unquote normal circumstances, whatever mister Kim on the

714
00:45:51,973 --> 00:45:56,013
Speaker 3: Conservative sides weaknesses are, mister Lee would not be the

715
00:45:56,053 --> 00:46:00,733
Speaker 3: strongest opponent, but the peers not to be playing out

716
00:46:00,773 --> 00:46:02,813
Speaker 3: that way. I mean, the betting markets, I think make

717
00:46:02,893 --> 00:46:05,853
Speaker 3: it a lot closer than the opinion polls. But the

718
00:46:05,853 --> 00:46:09,333
Speaker 3: betting markets are not always I mean, you know, sometimes

719
00:46:09,333 --> 00:46:11,973
Speaker 3: they're far more accurate in the polls, and sometimes they're not.

720
00:46:14,253 --> 00:46:16,893
Speaker 2: Let me bound something off you, and I'll tell you.

721
00:46:17,013 --> 00:46:18,693
Speaker 2: I'll tell you my source right from the get go.

722
00:46:18,813 --> 00:46:22,373
Speaker 2: I have found myself of recent times, very recent times,

723
00:46:23,093 --> 00:46:28,733
Speaker 2: of paying a little attention to Steve Bannon's War Room podcast. Yeah,

724
00:46:28,813 --> 00:46:35,013
Speaker 2: and over the weekend I heard commentary from, amongst others,

725
00:46:35,933 --> 00:46:39,773
Speaker 2: the American Ambassador to South Korea m h. They were

726
00:46:39,813 --> 00:46:43,053
Speaker 2: talking about the amount of control that the CCP, the

727
00:46:43,133 --> 00:46:48,453
Speaker 2: Chinese Communist Party now has in in South Korea, the

728
00:46:48,493 --> 00:46:52,333
Speaker 2: influence it's got, and the cheating that is going on,

729
00:46:52,533 --> 00:46:55,493
Speaker 2: and they described the ways of cheating that they they

730
00:46:55,533 --> 00:47:02,173
Speaker 2: claimed were correct, including pre pre filled out voting forms

731
00:47:02,613 --> 00:47:04,933
Speaker 2: and dropping them off and et cetera, et cetera.

732
00:47:05,493 --> 00:47:08,453
Speaker 3: What do you say, Yeah, no, the the one one

733
00:47:08,493 --> 00:47:12,973
Speaker 3: of the you know, one of the issues that has

734
00:47:13,013 --> 00:47:15,893
Speaker 3: come up of late, has gotten a lot of discussion

735
00:47:15,933 --> 00:47:19,213
Speaker 3: in America of late, is this issue of election integrity,

736
00:47:19,293 --> 00:47:23,013
Speaker 3: voter integrity. And you're right, Steve Bannon has been at

737
00:47:23,013 --> 00:47:25,893
Speaker 3: the forefront of shining a spotlight. You know, there's this

738
00:47:26,133 --> 00:47:30,573
Speaker 3: voter integrity team, the ambassador, former ambassador, I think a

739
00:47:30,693 --> 00:47:34,013
Speaker 3: couple of senior retired military figures from America are over

740
00:47:34,053 --> 00:47:37,053
Speaker 3: there and they are very concerned about, as you say,

741
00:47:37,573 --> 00:47:41,733
Speaker 3: these apparent case numerous cases of ballots being filled in.

742
00:47:41,773 --> 00:47:46,773
Speaker 3: They're very concerned about the electronic voting being being able

743
00:47:46,813 --> 00:47:50,053
Speaker 3: to be interfered with, and they're doing the rounds of

744
00:47:50,773 --> 00:47:55,373
Speaker 3: a lot of the conservative, alternative independent media podcasts, etc.

745
00:47:56,093 --> 00:47:59,373
Speaker 3: So of getting the word out. And yes it's being

746
00:47:59,493 --> 00:48:03,173
Speaker 3: tied not simply too well the opposition party you know,

747
00:48:03,573 --> 00:48:06,693
Speaker 3: is all behind this, but actually it being as you say,

748
00:48:06,733 --> 00:48:09,973
Speaker 3: more of a CCP, more of a a Beijing thing.

749
00:48:11,213 --> 00:48:15,653
Speaker 3: And if you're on, if you're not on the lee

750
00:48:15,853 --> 00:48:20,573
Speaker 3: left side of this election, then you've got this concern

751
00:48:20,693 --> 00:48:26,453
Speaker 3: double concern of not simply that the Chinese might be attempting,

752
00:48:26,493 --> 00:48:29,853
Speaker 3: perhaps successfully to interfere with the election, but you've got

753
00:48:30,133 --> 00:48:36,053
Speaker 3: a apparent as all well, an apparent winner of the

754
00:48:36,053 --> 00:48:40,253
Speaker 3: election or to be who's someone who is by very

755
00:48:40,373 --> 00:48:46,173
Speaker 3: it's very nature and history open and sympathetic to that side.

756
00:48:46,573 --> 00:48:50,453
Speaker 3: That that's part of you know, that far left part

757
00:48:50,613 --> 00:48:53,013
Speaker 3: of the political spectrum all the way you know, from

758
00:48:53,133 --> 00:48:57,693
Speaker 3: China itself. So there's plenty to be We don't know

759
00:48:57,853 --> 00:49:00,733
Speaker 3: a lot in terms of the sort of the bottom

760
00:49:00,813 --> 00:49:03,093
Speaker 3: line here, the tangible stuff, but there's a lot to

761
00:49:03,133 --> 00:49:05,733
Speaker 3: be anxious about at this very late stage.

762
00:49:06,373 --> 00:49:09,853
Speaker 2: The suggestion is that there's a practice run for Taiwan.

763
00:49:10,813 --> 00:49:14,493
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it could it could, It could well be.

764
00:49:14,613 --> 00:49:16,893
Speaker 3: I mean this is how do you given you know,

765
00:49:16,933 --> 00:49:18,693
Speaker 3: what's happened in Asia and what's happening in the rest

766
00:49:18,733 --> 00:49:21,013
Speaker 3: of the world, and how the Chinese approached these things.

767
00:49:21,253 --> 00:49:22,413
Speaker 3: How could you rule that out.

768
00:49:22,613 --> 00:49:27,573
Speaker 2: Indeed, so the Polish election, that's that's turned out a

769
00:49:27,573 --> 00:49:28,773
Speaker 2: different way, thank goodness.

770
00:49:30,293 --> 00:49:34,893
Speaker 3: Yeah, we've had the Trump explicitly Trump endorsed candidate, populist

771
00:49:35,453 --> 00:49:42,213
Speaker 3: anti EEU candidate win. You know, mister Nevrocki pulled it off.

772
00:49:42,933 --> 00:49:47,253
Speaker 3: The polls had him twenty points down not that long ago,

773
00:49:48,133 --> 00:49:51,493
Speaker 3: and the polls up to the election, most of them

774
00:49:51,533 --> 00:49:55,173
Speaker 3: had him losing by several points, you know, close to

775
00:49:55,213 --> 00:49:57,493
Speaker 3: double figures, some of them more than double figures. The

776
00:49:57,533 --> 00:50:00,653
Speaker 3: exit polls on the night had him losing narrowly, but

777
00:50:00,733 --> 00:50:05,773
Speaker 3: had him losing. And guess what, the people spoke differently.

778
00:50:05,853 --> 00:50:10,053
Speaker 3: He won, you buy a couple of points, and even

779
00:50:10,053 --> 00:50:12,293
Speaker 3: though his opponent declared victory as soon as the exit

780
00:50:12,333 --> 00:50:15,573
Speaker 3: polls were announced, which is a little difficult to retract.

781
00:50:16,853 --> 00:50:18,853
Speaker 3: But yeah, no, you have someone who I mean, we

782
00:50:18,853 --> 00:50:21,893
Speaker 3: were told that, you know, the stitch up in Romania

783
00:50:22,013 --> 00:50:23,973
Speaker 3: and the stitch up in Germany, and we were told

784
00:50:24,013 --> 00:50:27,333
Speaker 3: that the Musk endorsements and the Trump endorsements and these

785
00:50:27,813 --> 00:50:31,333
Speaker 3: quote unquote European mega mega style candidates, they just there

786
00:50:31,413 --> 00:50:34,253
Speaker 3: just wasn't. There just wasn't an audience for it in

787
00:50:34,733 --> 00:50:37,853
Speaker 3: sophisticated Europe. But in this case, and an election that

788
00:50:37,893 --> 00:50:43,053
Speaker 3: appears to have been comparatively free and fair, apparently there was.

789
00:50:44,213 --> 00:50:49,413
Speaker 3: And uh so the globalists, the globalist candidate, the pro

790
00:50:49,533 --> 00:50:55,813
Speaker 3: EU sophisticated and centrist likes lots of you know, internal migration,

791
00:50:55,893 --> 00:50:59,293
Speaker 3: in inward migration and all the rest of it that

792
00:50:59,453 --> 00:51:04,613
Speaker 3: everyone in Brussels hoped, assumed expected to win didn't. So

793
00:51:04,813 --> 00:51:07,333
Speaker 3: this is rather a black eye for the Eurocrats and

794
00:51:07,373 --> 00:51:11,613
Speaker 3: the globalists and rather rather puts a smile on the

795
00:51:11,613 --> 00:51:15,173
Speaker 3: face I think of populist and nationalists, anti EU types

796
00:51:15,253 --> 00:51:18,173
Speaker 3: throughout Europe, which I would argue is actually the majority,

797
00:51:18,373 --> 00:51:21,733
Speaker 3: and of course gives the White House nice, nice little

798
00:51:21,733 --> 00:51:22,413
Speaker 3: boost as well.

799
00:51:23,173 --> 00:51:26,493
Speaker 2: So turning attention to well, there's a couple of other

800
00:51:26,533 --> 00:51:30,213
Speaker 2: places we might visit, but to Ukraine and the drone

801
00:51:30,213 --> 00:51:36,693
Speaker 2: attack over the weekend, what sort of reaction might you expect?

802
00:51:37,133 --> 00:51:40,093
Speaker 3: Do you mean both separately from America and from Russia

803
00:51:40,133 --> 00:51:40,653
Speaker 3: that sort.

804
00:51:40,453 --> 00:51:44,973
Speaker 2: Of No, I'm thinking of the reprisal from Russia.

805
00:51:46,893 --> 00:51:49,213
Speaker 3: Well it is, I mean I think it was a

806
00:51:50,373 --> 00:51:54,333
Speaker 3: these attacks are I think at this stage I logical

807
00:51:54,373 --> 00:51:58,253
Speaker 3: and irrational and counterproductive. If from the Ukrainian point of view,

808
00:51:58,333 --> 00:52:01,533
Speaker 3: forget about sort of a wider picture, wider view of

809
00:52:01,573 --> 00:52:05,493
Speaker 3: what's going on in the world and in Europe, they

810
00:52:05,653 --> 00:52:12,173
Speaker 3: certainly risk a sort of large response, asymmetrical response from

811
00:52:12,213 --> 00:52:15,253
Speaker 3: the Russians. I mean, it's one of the things, you know.

812
00:52:15,333 --> 00:52:17,453
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm saying this. Probably most of your audiences

813
00:52:17,533 --> 00:52:19,453
Speaker 3: think I'm crazy for saying it, and certainly most people

814
00:52:19,533 --> 00:52:21,773
Speaker 3: do when I say it, whatever side of the political

815
00:52:21,813 --> 00:52:24,133
Speaker 3: fence they're on. But you know, the assumption all along

816
00:52:24,213 --> 00:52:28,933
Speaker 3: has been that if only Putin wasn't so, you know,

817
00:52:29,013 --> 00:52:31,813
Speaker 3: totally in control of everything in Russia, then all the

818
00:52:31,853 --> 00:52:34,813
Speaker 3: other saner heads would apply and things wouldn't be as

819
00:52:35,213 --> 00:52:39,853
Speaker 3: tough on Ukraine. When I have always argued that perversely,

820
00:52:39,893 --> 00:52:41,613
Speaker 3: you have to be glad it's not Putin and not

821
00:52:41,813 --> 00:52:45,933
Speaker 3: somebody else, because things would have gone quite differently if

822
00:52:45,973 --> 00:52:47,333
Speaker 3: they've been the case. And I think this is a

823
00:52:47,373 --> 00:52:49,893
Speaker 3: time where maybe my theory we put to the test.

824
00:52:51,013 --> 00:52:54,533
Speaker 3: It's going to be hard for Putin not to you

825
00:52:54,653 --> 00:53:03,333
Speaker 3: might say, overreact given domestic pressures, but I don't think

826
00:53:03,373 --> 00:53:06,213
Speaker 3: he wants to, because I think he sees the larger

827
00:53:06,333 --> 00:53:09,453
Speaker 3: picture in his own in his country self interest, and

828
00:53:09,493 --> 00:53:14,053
Speaker 3: I think he is at least open to whatever Trump

829
00:53:14,493 --> 00:53:17,013
Speaker 3: will advise him. And we know that Trump will advise

830
00:53:17,093 --> 00:53:21,373
Speaker 3: him not to, you know, get carried away in the moment.

831
00:53:23,133 --> 00:53:26,973
Speaker 3: And so you've got it's interesting what's happening in America,

832
00:53:27,053 --> 00:53:30,533
Speaker 3: and it's just in terms of trying to predict and

833
00:53:30,653 --> 00:53:34,133
Speaker 3: fear what the Russian response will be. I think most

834
00:53:34,173 --> 00:53:38,053
Speaker 3: people in America on both sides that is a Republican

835
00:53:38,173 --> 00:53:43,973
Speaker 3: democratic side, Trump's side. Other side is they assume that

836
00:53:44,013 --> 00:53:48,173
Speaker 3: the Russians are going to go heavy following this, and

837
00:53:49,413 --> 00:53:53,773
Speaker 3: the Trump supporters really fear that this is going to

838
00:53:53,813 --> 00:53:56,693
Speaker 3: make it so hard for Trump to get out of

839
00:53:56,973 --> 00:53:58,973
Speaker 3: you get America out of Ukraine, and get this thing

840
00:53:59,293 --> 00:54:02,333
Speaker 3: over with in a reasonable period of time without you know,

841
00:54:02,333 --> 00:54:05,853
Speaker 3: it's therefore going to have negative consequences for him politically.

842
00:54:06,013 --> 00:54:08,813
Speaker 3: And then you've got the folks, the anti Trump folks,

843
00:54:09,253 --> 00:54:15,693
Speaker 3: who are actually hoping that put and Ova reacts because

844
00:54:15,773 --> 00:54:19,693
Speaker 3: then this thing can keep going right and we can

845
00:54:19,813 --> 00:54:22,893
Speaker 3: keep pushing, you know, we believe in the in the

846
00:54:22,933 --> 00:54:25,533
Speaker 3: right direction, and that's very much the view, you know,

847
00:54:25,573 --> 00:54:28,933
Speaker 3: in the corridors of power in Western Europe, So which

848
00:54:29,013 --> 00:54:31,973
Speaker 3: makes you the cynical among us think, well, this is

849
00:54:32,133 --> 00:54:34,973
Speaker 3: irrational and logical thing that Ukraine did at this point.

850
00:54:35,693 --> 00:54:37,933
Speaker 3: Maybe they weren't the ones deciding what was going to

851
00:54:37,973 --> 00:54:39,813
Speaker 3: be done. It would be the first time in the

852
00:54:39,893 --> 00:54:44,253
Speaker 3: last three years. So yeah, I mean all to be decided, obviously,

853
00:54:44,293 --> 00:54:47,613
Speaker 3: but it's a I think really unnecessarily is that we're

854
00:54:47,613 --> 00:54:52,493
Speaker 3: in an unnecessarily precarious moment when it looked as if

855
00:54:53,213 --> 00:54:56,613
Speaker 3: we were going to get somewhere to ending this madness

856
00:54:56,693 --> 00:54:57,693
Speaker 3: sooner rather than later.

857
00:54:58,453 --> 00:55:01,333
Speaker 2: I'd suggest that I'm not saying anything that I don't

858
00:55:01,373 --> 00:55:03,173
Speaker 2: think anybody else was thought of, to be honest, but

859
00:55:03,373 --> 00:55:06,613
Speaker 2: I'd suggest this war is, if it wasn't at the beginning,

860
00:55:06,653 --> 00:55:09,933
Speaker 2: has become a fast How can you how can you

861
00:55:10,013 --> 00:55:13,133
Speaker 2: be holding peace talks at the same time as you

862
00:55:13,373 --> 00:55:17,893
Speaker 2: as you're bombing the proverbial out of out of your opposition.

863
00:55:18,413 --> 00:55:23,413
Speaker 2: It's it's just, it's just it's not horrific, it's not horrendous.

864
00:55:23,773 --> 00:55:24,893
Speaker 2: It's absurd.

865
00:55:25,533 --> 00:55:29,253
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely absolutely agree.

866
00:55:29,293 --> 00:55:33,413
Speaker 2: More it's like something that that they make out of

867
00:55:33,653 --> 00:55:38,293
Speaker 2: a Hollywood movie from the past anyway as a send up.

868
00:55:40,053 --> 00:55:43,373
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely absolutely has a it has a it has

869
00:55:43,413 --> 00:55:45,813
Speaker 3: a sort of Peter Seller's quality to it.

870
00:55:46,933 --> 00:55:49,733
Speaker 2: You know, it's yeah, you hit, you hit the nail

871
00:55:49,773 --> 00:55:52,853
Speaker 2: on the head. So the last remaining I think a

872
00:55:53,093 --> 00:55:57,013
Speaker 2: major issue is is what's going on and has been

873
00:55:57,053 --> 00:55:59,253
Speaker 2: going on for so long in the Middle East, in

874
00:55:59,533 --> 00:56:04,773
Speaker 2: and around Gaza in America the Jewish folk are getting

875
00:56:05,013 --> 00:56:09,493
Speaker 2: a really rough time, and there is there is a thought,

876
00:56:09,533 --> 00:56:11,973
Speaker 2: of course that it's only going to get worse, which

877
00:56:12,093 --> 00:56:16,973
Speaker 2: which it could. I have friends who who are Australian

878
00:56:17,693 --> 00:56:20,813
Speaker 2: who are in the same position and very concerned about

879
00:56:21,253 --> 00:56:25,053
Speaker 2: where where things are at. So who is holding the

880
00:56:25,093 --> 00:56:30,053
Speaker 2: strings here or pulling the ropes? And why is it

881
00:56:30,093 --> 00:56:32,893
Speaker 2: still unresolved? Now there's an easy question.

882
00:56:35,253 --> 00:56:40,973
Speaker 3: You just are you are you? Are you looking for

883
00:56:41,093 --> 00:56:45,253
Speaker 3: more comment on the American side of it or in

884
00:56:45,333 --> 00:56:48,533
Speaker 3: the in the Middle East side of it, or are

885
00:56:48,533 --> 00:56:50,173
Speaker 3: the two so intertwined.

886
00:56:49,653 --> 00:56:51,373
Speaker 2: It's exactly they are.

887
00:56:51,653 --> 00:56:56,453
Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, it's yeah, it's it's a it's a combination

888
00:56:56,613 --> 00:56:58,333
Speaker 3: on both sides, isn't it. I mean, in terms of

889
00:56:58,333 --> 00:57:02,093
Speaker 3: the opposition to what Israel has done and been doing

890
00:57:02,493 --> 00:57:06,253
Speaker 3: for what is it eighteen months now, that's a combination.

891
00:57:07,493 --> 00:57:12,013
Speaker 3: And obviously you've got your your your your Palestinian sympathetic

892
00:57:12,453 --> 00:57:16,693
Speaker 3: our world Muslim world. And you've got your Palestinian sort

893
00:57:16,733 --> 00:57:19,893
Speaker 3: of on the on the ground. But in terms of

894
00:57:19,933 --> 00:57:26,933
Speaker 3: the political you know, mojo that that keeps them operating

895
00:57:27,253 --> 00:57:30,533
Speaker 3: as you're talking about Western Europe and North America and

896
00:57:30,613 --> 00:57:33,693
Speaker 3: there it's you've got a combination of the sort of

897
00:57:33,733 --> 00:57:40,413
Speaker 3: progressive lehard left that there's always disliked Israel for all

898
00:57:40,453 --> 00:57:42,733
Speaker 3: kinds of reasons, particularly the fact that Israel, you know,

899
00:57:43,453 --> 00:57:46,253
Speaker 3: the same reason the Soviet Union turned on Israel. Everybody

900
00:57:46,293 --> 00:57:50,213
Speaker 3: thought that Israel would be a kind of socialist country

901
00:57:50,213 --> 00:57:51,653
Speaker 3: and it kind of looked that way or while we

902
00:57:51,693 --> 00:57:53,493
Speaker 3: are and then the Israeli has made a decision they

903
00:57:53,493 --> 00:57:55,213
Speaker 3: were going to go, you know, and go on the

904
00:57:55,213 --> 00:57:57,573
Speaker 3: American route rather than the Soviet route. The Soviets never

905
00:57:57,613 --> 00:57:59,773
Speaker 3: forgave them, and a lot of the Western you know,

906
00:57:59,893 --> 00:58:04,733
Speaker 3: intellectual left never forgave them either. And there's that for sure.

907
00:58:05,133 --> 00:58:11,773
Speaker 3: Then you've got your young college you know, support the downtrodden,

908
00:58:12,333 --> 00:58:16,173
Speaker 3: the oppressed, in this case identified as the Palestinians. You've

909
00:58:16,213 --> 00:58:19,733
Speaker 3: got that which has been very very powerful politically, I

910
00:58:19,773 --> 00:58:23,453
Speaker 3: mean numerically. You put those groups together and the other group. Well,

911
00:58:24,053 --> 00:58:27,093
Speaker 3: the other group is in those two groups, but also separate.

912
00:58:27,133 --> 00:58:30,773
Speaker 3: And that is just a straight anti Semitic, anti Jewish sentiment, right,

913
00:58:31,733 --> 00:58:35,773
Speaker 3: just often crude, often more sophisticatedly expressed. You put all

914
00:58:35,773 --> 00:58:39,333
Speaker 3: those groups together, they make a lot of noise, and

915
00:58:39,413 --> 00:58:42,893
Speaker 3: they can get a crowd out, and they can block things,

916
00:58:42,973 --> 00:58:45,493
Speaker 3: and they can kill people and all this kind of stuff.

917
00:58:45,693 --> 00:58:48,773
Speaker 3: But they're not that many. They don't carry a lot

918
00:58:48,813 --> 00:58:54,133
Speaker 3: of sort of numerical weight. That's because most Americans, and

919
00:58:54,173 --> 00:58:56,533
Speaker 3: we sort of ask these questions all the time, most

920
00:58:56,573 --> 00:59:04,533
Speaker 3: Americans continue to be inherently pro Israel. The Americans are

921
00:59:04,933 --> 00:59:09,533
Speaker 3: much more ambivalent about how this has gone since the

922
00:59:09,533 --> 00:59:13,053
Speaker 3: initial attacks on Israel and then how these radius responses going.

923
00:59:13,453 --> 00:59:17,293
Speaker 3: But they are not sympathetic to the Palestinians in a

924
00:59:17,333 --> 00:59:21,133
Speaker 3: way that they are automatically sympathetic to the Israelis. And

925
00:59:21,173 --> 00:59:24,373
Speaker 3: that is the thing that you know, carries the day

926
00:59:24,573 --> 00:59:31,933
Speaker 3: with most politicians, even most Democrats national on the national stage.

927
00:59:33,493 --> 00:59:37,013
Speaker 3: And you know where it gets interesting, of course, right now,

928
00:59:37,693 --> 00:59:40,573
Speaker 3: is you bring Trump back into it, and there's a

929
00:59:40,573 --> 00:59:42,413
Speaker 3: couple of things going on there. You know, Trump is

930
00:59:44,413 --> 00:59:50,373
Speaker 3: very pro Israel, but his priority has been and is

931
00:59:50,453 --> 00:59:53,533
Speaker 3: and will remain peace in the Middle East, you know,

932
00:59:53,653 --> 00:59:58,933
Speaker 3: hence his very successful outreach to the Arab nations, particularly

933
00:59:58,973 --> 01:00:02,293
Speaker 3: in the Gulf uh and all of that. And so

934
01:00:02,333 --> 01:00:05,653
Speaker 3: what that what that does is it it makes it

935
01:00:06,253 --> 01:00:12,053
Speaker 3: less les given that whatever Israel does, Trump will just

936
01:00:12,053 --> 01:00:17,733
Speaker 3: say great because Trump actually thinks that they have they've

937
01:00:17,733 --> 01:00:21,813
Speaker 3: had that's the right to defend themselves, obviously, but what

938
01:00:22,013 --> 01:00:25,053
Speaker 3: they do on any given day may not necessarily be

939
01:00:25,133 --> 01:00:28,133
Speaker 3: in their own long term self interest. And this gets

940
01:00:28,173 --> 01:00:33,053
Speaker 3: even more complicated by the fact that net Naiu, who

941
01:00:33,093 --> 01:00:36,533
Speaker 3: is very popular on the American right as seen as

942
01:00:36,533 --> 01:00:39,013
Speaker 3: a you know, defender of Israel and a sort of

943
01:00:39,053 --> 01:00:43,533
Speaker 3: holding the line against you know, Muslim extremism and all

944
01:00:43,533 --> 01:00:46,453
Speaker 3: this rest of it, and it's very popular with evangelical

945
01:00:46,533 --> 01:00:48,973
Speaker 3: Christians and who have, you know, remained quite influential in

946
01:00:48,973 --> 01:00:52,693
Speaker 3: American politics. But Trump and Nett Naiu have a have

947
01:00:52,773 --> 01:00:56,453
Speaker 3: an interesting relationship. And one, you know, Trump's someone he

948
01:00:56,493 --> 01:01:01,493
Speaker 3: doesn't forget, he doesn't forget things. And when Biden was

949
01:01:01,573 --> 01:01:05,453
Speaker 3: declared the winner in twenty twenty, the first foreign leader

950
01:01:05,533 --> 01:01:09,773
Speaker 3: to rush to the microphone to say Trump's gone, it's Biden,

951
01:01:09,893 --> 01:01:13,133
Speaker 3: Let's move on, was with him was was Bbe and

952
01:01:13,613 --> 01:01:15,813
Speaker 3: that didn't go over so well. So Trump is at

953
01:01:15,813 --> 01:01:19,613
Speaker 3: a point now where he's starting to lose He's sympathetic,

954
01:01:20,293 --> 01:01:23,093
Speaker 3: very sympathetic Israel's position, but he's started to lose patience

955
01:01:23,173 --> 01:01:28,893
Speaker 3: with the Israeli leadership. And so it's not of it's

956
01:01:28,933 --> 01:01:33,293
Speaker 3: not a given that whatever Israel does going forward is

957
01:01:33,333 --> 01:01:36,013
Speaker 3: going to be robber stamped by the White House the

958
01:01:36,053 --> 01:01:39,853
Speaker 3: way that under Biden, rightly or wrongly, correctly or incorrectly,

959
01:01:40,213 --> 01:01:44,533
Speaker 3: it was viewed generally by the anti Israeli folks as

960
01:01:44,813 --> 01:01:47,013
Speaker 3: but why does Biden, why does she just go along

961
01:01:47,053 --> 01:01:50,613
Speaker 3: with whatever Israel says? And it's it's just like with

962
01:01:50,813 --> 01:01:54,133
Speaker 3: Ukraine and Russia. Trump's priority is to end what he've

963
01:01:54,213 --> 01:01:56,333
Speaker 3: used a sort of end the madness and the madness,

964
01:01:57,213 --> 01:02:02,933
Speaker 3: and he may take some interesting turns rhetorically and substantively

965
01:02:03,373 --> 01:02:07,693
Speaker 3: to try to get things closer to where he thinks

966
01:02:07,733 --> 01:02:10,453
Speaker 3: they should be, which might end up surprising a few

967
01:02:10,453 --> 01:02:12,453
Speaker 3: folks when it comes to Israel and Gaza.

968
01:02:13,413 --> 01:02:17,693
Speaker 2: There was a comment from your ambassador, the American Ambassador

969
01:02:17,773 --> 01:02:22,813
Speaker 2: to Israel. There was made i think overnight our time.

970
01:02:24,013 --> 01:02:31,573
Speaker 2: Most recently, it was that if the French are so

971
01:02:31,693 --> 01:02:35,653
Speaker 2: because the French had taken a turn against Israel again,

972
01:02:35,693 --> 01:02:39,333
Speaker 2: which is not unusual, but the French have suggested again

973
01:02:40,053 --> 01:02:45,893
Speaker 2: that there has to be a Palestinian state, and the

974
01:02:46,213 --> 01:02:49,773
Speaker 2: ambassadors whose name escapes me, the ex governor of Mike

975
01:02:49,813 --> 01:02:54,973
Speaker 2: Huckabee Huckerbye, thank you that Huckaby has suggested that if

976
01:02:55,613 --> 01:02:59,813
Speaker 2: France is so keen for the Palestinians to have their

977
01:02:59,853 --> 01:03:03,613
Speaker 2: own state, they should carpet out of the Coke de jeur.

978
01:03:05,493 --> 01:03:05,693
Speaker 3: Yeah.

979
01:03:08,653 --> 01:03:11,013
Speaker 2: I thought that was really thought that was a beautiful,

980
01:03:11,133 --> 01:03:12,373
Speaker 2: beautiful way to deal with it.

981
01:03:13,693 --> 01:03:15,413
Speaker 3: Yeah. No, I mean you can understand where it's coming

982
01:03:15,453 --> 01:03:18,013
Speaker 3: from because you've got, you know, for a long time

983
01:03:19,213 --> 01:03:22,653
Speaker 3: the notion of a two state solution Israel Israel and

984
01:03:22,693 --> 01:03:25,653
Speaker 3: then you know Land put set aside for the Palestinians

985
01:03:25,653 --> 01:03:28,013
Speaker 3: would be the way. You know, most sophisticated people thought, well,

986
01:03:28,013 --> 01:03:30,093
Speaker 3: that makes sense. Everyone gets most of what they want,

987
01:03:30,453 --> 01:03:33,493
Speaker 3: and we can you know, peace will be every rain

988
01:03:33,573 --> 01:03:35,413
Speaker 3: and we can just move on. But of course it's

989
01:03:35,413 --> 01:03:39,813
Speaker 3: become blindingly obvious in recent decades and years that two

990
01:03:39,813 --> 01:03:44,893
Speaker 3: state solution there is not going to work because the

991
01:03:45,373 --> 01:03:47,413
Speaker 3: side you'd be giving the second state to the past

992
01:03:47,413 --> 01:03:49,293
Speaker 3: of the inside is not really interested in there being

993
01:03:49,293 --> 01:03:51,693
Speaker 3: two states. They want one state that doesn't include Israel.

994
01:03:52,813 --> 01:03:56,573
Speaker 3: Whether you think that's historically valid or not, that's you know,

995
01:03:56,773 --> 01:04:02,853
Speaker 3: that's that's their extreme position, which most Palestinian support. And

996
01:04:02,893 --> 01:04:04,933
Speaker 3: you can see, you can you can you can understand

997
01:04:04,933 --> 01:04:10,893
Speaker 3: appreciate Huckaby's frustration at sophisticated you left the Europeans lobbying

998
01:04:10,973 --> 01:04:15,013
Speaker 3: rhetorical barbles at Israel but not being willing to do

999
01:04:15,053 --> 01:04:20,093
Speaker 3: anything about it and not really being the ones who

1000
01:04:20,213 --> 01:04:22,933
Speaker 3: kind of seriously deal have to deal with the blowback

1001
01:04:22,973 --> 01:04:26,933
Speaker 3: in all kinds of ways. And I think also further,

1002
01:04:27,173 --> 01:04:30,133
Speaker 3: I was just saying about Trump's sort of evolution on

1003
01:04:30,253 --> 01:04:33,653
Speaker 3: israel Is, it's a way the Americans can keep the

1004
01:04:33,773 --> 01:04:38,613
Speaker 3: Israelis off balance because see Hackebe's an eel, very serious

1005
01:04:38,653 --> 01:04:42,693
Speaker 3: evangelical Christian and that's his political base in America and

1006
01:04:42,733 --> 01:04:46,013
Speaker 3: why he was He's been a very successful politician in America,

1007
01:04:46,173 --> 01:04:51,813
Speaker 3: and so he is a natural diplomat in that spot,

1008
01:04:51,853 --> 01:04:55,933
Speaker 3: in that context, in the current context too very much

1009
01:04:55,933 --> 01:04:59,613
Speaker 3: stand shoulder to shoulder with Israeli government and reassure them

1010
01:04:59,813 --> 01:05:03,253
Speaker 3: that America's ultimately got their back. Well, Trump, from time

1011
01:05:03,293 --> 01:05:06,613
Speaker 3: to time is appearing to sort of maybe take a

1012
01:05:06,653 --> 01:05:09,853
Speaker 3: step or two to the side, and I suspect that

1013
01:05:09,853 --> 01:05:13,453
Speaker 3: this kind of thing will continue. And it's both It

1014
01:05:13,493 --> 01:05:17,813
Speaker 3: both reflects I think Huckerby's own opinions and Trump's own

1015
01:05:17,813 --> 01:05:21,413
Speaker 3: opinions which aren't which overlap a lot but aren't identical.

1016
01:05:21,533 --> 01:05:25,693
Speaker 3: But it also it plays to Trump's what I would

1017
01:05:25,773 --> 01:05:28,613
Speaker 3: view as one of Trump's strengths in foreign policy, which

1018
01:05:28,653 --> 01:05:32,893
Speaker 3: is he by design likes to keep everybody unsure of

1019
01:05:32,933 --> 01:05:36,253
Speaker 3: what he's actually thinking and doing. I mean, he gave

1020
01:05:36,493 --> 01:05:38,733
Speaker 3: during the election. Right at the end of the election,

1021
01:05:38,773 --> 01:05:41,213
Speaker 3: he had this long two three hour interview with Joe

1022
01:05:41,533 --> 01:05:45,373
Speaker 3: Rogan the Huge podcast in America, and in talking about

1023
01:05:45,373 --> 01:05:50,053
Speaker 3: foreign policy, Trump said, you know, basically, I'm paraphrasing whatever

1024
01:05:50,093 --> 01:05:53,893
Speaker 3: I say publicly about the negotiations going on and this

1025
01:05:53,973 --> 01:05:56,493
Speaker 3: kind of thing. I'm never going to tell you publicly

1026
01:05:56,613 --> 01:05:58,613
Speaker 3: what I think or what I'm going to do. It's

1027
01:05:58,693 --> 01:06:02,893
Speaker 3: always disguised, right, which some of us think is very

1028
01:06:03,013 --> 01:06:06,533
Speaker 3: sound strategy. Other people find out bizarre that he wouldn't

1029
01:06:06,573 --> 01:06:09,933
Speaker 3: just show his cards for you. You know, the opposition

1030
01:06:10,053 --> 01:06:12,973
Speaker 3: sees the cards or whatever it might be, guesses the cards.

1031
01:06:13,093 --> 01:06:18,213
Speaker 3: So this this kind of this good cop bad cop,

1032
01:06:18,213 --> 01:06:20,853
Speaker 3: which I think is developing visa of the Israel from

1033
01:06:20,853 --> 01:06:23,013
Speaker 3: the White House, and you will see more of it. Howker,

1034
01:06:23,093 --> 01:06:26,293
Speaker 3: beyond the ground, it's easier. It's harder for him to

1035
01:06:27,613 --> 01:06:31,013
Speaker 3: say difficult things when he's there. It's easy for Trump

1036
01:06:31,053 --> 01:06:32,773
Speaker 3: to do it from a distance. And I think this

1037
01:06:32,893 --> 01:06:37,293
Speaker 3: sort of tag team will will continue very good.

1038
01:06:37,453 --> 01:06:39,773
Speaker 2: A couple of things to wind it up, and I'm

1039
01:06:39,813 --> 01:06:42,733
Speaker 2: springing this on you, sorry, but I am. When I

1040
01:06:42,773 --> 01:06:45,253
Speaker 2: finished this question, I want to know the first thing

1041
01:06:45,293 --> 01:06:49,493
Speaker 2: that comes to mind if anything, is there something or

1042
01:06:49,573 --> 01:06:54,453
Speaker 2: anything that is working its way into the world's immediate

1043
01:06:54,533 --> 01:06:57,533
Speaker 2: future that is not getting attention?

1044
01:06:59,173 --> 01:07:03,293
Speaker 3: Mmmm? That's that's that is a good question. I think that,

1045
01:07:05,253 --> 01:07:08,133
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, anything, anything I say is getting

1046
01:07:08,173 --> 01:07:11,613
Speaker 3: it attention to some extent. But I think in terms

1047
01:07:11,693 --> 01:07:15,293
Speaker 3: of relative weight, I would say, are going to be

1048
01:07:15,293 --> 01:07:20,093
Speaker 3: pulled this way. AI is and will be super important

1049
01:07:20,093 --> 01:07:22,373
Speaker 3: for good or for ill, but it's getting tons and

1050
01:07:22,413 --> 01:07:27,133
Speaker 3: tons and tons of attention. I think that financial freedom,

1051
01:07:27,613 --> 01:07:35,493
Speaker 3: that bucket of issues, is getting attention, but nothing like

1052
01:07:35,533 --> 01:07:38,933
Speaker 3: as much as it should. You know, what happens with crypto,

1053
01:07:39,133 --> 01:07:45,093
Speaker 3: what happens with the digital currencies, what happens about financial privacy,

1054
01:07:46,093 --> 01:07:50,013
Speaker 3: All of the stuff that's been going on and every

1055
01:07:50,093 --> 01:07:53,053
Speaker 3: now and then pops up, but it's really really important

1056
01:07:53,133 --> 01:07:58,773
Speaker 3: to how everyone leaves, lives, their daily financial lives. All

1057
01:07:58,813 --> 01:08:00,453
Speaker 3: of that. Some of it's going in a good direction,

1058
01:08:00,533 --> 01:08:01,933
Speaker 3: some of it isn't. I mean, most of us going

1059
01:08:01,933 --> 01:08:03,973
Speaker 3: in terrible direction for a few years, I would argue

1060
01:08:03,973 --> 01:08:06,653
Speaker 3: in most parts of the world, all of that wrapped

1061
01:08:06,733 --> 01:08:10,573
Speaker 3: up with the old you know, Chinese social credit scores,

1062
01:08:10,693 --> 01:08:14,173
Speaker 3: which some of our European and North American friends, you know,

1063
01:08:14,253 --> 01:08:16,973
Speaker 3: Mark Karney and the you just love that stuff. You

1064
01:08:17,053 --> 01:08:19,333
Speaker 3: can't get social credit scores going. And that, of course

1065
01:08:19,413 --> 01:08:23,013
Speaker 3: is all tied in with your financial score as as

1066
01:08:23,053 --> 01:08:28,173
Speaker 3: decided by government bureaucrat. So all of that that bucket

1067
01:08:28,733 --> 01:08:33,893
Speaker 3: of how you how you're allowed to spend your money,

1068
01:08:34,253 --> 01:08:38,613
Speaker 3: account for your money, receive your money. Who does you know?

1069
01:08:39,013 --> 01:08:41,973
Speaker 3: Is it? Is it? Do you have autonom financial autonomy

1070
01:08:41,973 --> 01:08:48,133
Speaker 3: as an individual anymore? Should you will the government? Governments

1071
01:08:48,173 --> 01:08:53,413
Speaker 3: determine uh your access to your money? What is the relationship?

1072
01:08:53,613 --> 01:08:57,013
Speaker 3: Is the relationship with your financial institution more of one

1073
01:08:57,093 --> 01:09:00,013
Speaker 3: where they are the messenger for the government or are

1074
01:09:00,053 --> 01:09:03,573
Speaker 3: they also autonomous and you, You and they have a

1075
01:09:03,653 --> 01:09:06,013
Speaker 3: relation have relationships with the government. You know, So which

1076
01:09:06,053 --> 01:09:08,253
Speaker 3: way the arrow is going? This is not very sexy

1077
01:09:08,333 --> 01:09:11,293
Speaker 3: answer late, and I apologize, but I think that all

1078
01:09:11,373 --> 01:09:17,853
Speaker 3: of that is going to have a tangible impact on everyone,

1079
01:09:19,093 --> 01:09:22,093
Speaker 3: and it's just not getting enough play, partly because it's

1080
01:09:22,093 --> 01:09:26,213
Speaker 3: not sexy enough, and a large part because most of

1081
01:09:26,253 --> 01:09:30,213
Speaker 3: the media is either ignorant of it, unable to understand it,

1082
01:09:30,413 --> 01:09:33,093
Speaker 3: and those that are actually quite happy with the notion

1083
01:09:33,573 --> 01:09:37,733
Speaker 3: of more control from the top and less autolemy at

1084
01:09:37,733 --> 01:09:41,293
Speaker 3: the bottom. And so therefore, why write about something that's

1085
01:09:41,333 --> 01:09:43,333
Speaker 3: actually moving in the right direction.

1086
01:09:44,013 --> 01:09:47,213
Speaker 2: I have to tell you you're wrong in what you

1087
01:09:47,253 --> 01:09:51,773
Speaker 2: say about it being not sexy or boring or whatever.

1088
01:09:52,253 --> 01:09:54,813
Speaker 2: It is one of the most important things that I

1089
01:09:54,853 --> 01:09:59,293
Speaker 2: congratulate you on targeting it, and in fact, at some stage,

1090
01:09:59,333 --> 01:10:01,613
Speaker 2: and they're not too distant future, we might do a

1091
01:10:01,653 --> 01:10:04,493
Speaker 2: podcast on that and some surrounding matters. The other thing

1092
01:10:04,773 --> 01:10:07,573
Speaker 2: is so thank you for that. The other thing is

1093
01:10:08,413 --> 01:10:12,933
Speaker 2: I'm sitting here listening to you and thinking, why doesn't

1094
01:10:12,933 --> 01:10:15,893
Speaker 2: this man write a book? What's the answer? I mean,

1095
01:10:15,933 --> 01:10:16,893
Speaker 2: why why aren't you?

1096
01:10:16,973 --> 01:10:17,133
Speaker 3: Why?

1097
01:10:17,533 --> 01:10:20,333
Speaker 2: Why when are you going to write a book? Then well,

1098
01:10:20,333 --> 01:10:21,573
Speaker 2: I have I have.

1099
01:10:22,853 --> 01:10:25,693
Speaker 3: I put my hand up. I've actually written co written

1100
01:10:25,733 --> 01:10:31,093
Speaker 3: a number of books, most of them on I say,

1101
01:10:31,213 --> 01:10:36,493
Speaker 3: esoteric toss topics, but very specific, you know, policy regulatory topics,

1102
01:10:37,053 --> 01:10:40,733
Speaker 3: with with one one exception, not to bore you here,

1103
01:10:40,893 --> 01:10:45,813
Speaker 3: belabor it. Twenty early twenty sixteen, I wrote a book

1104
01:10:46,053 --> 01:10:48,613
Speaker 3: on a sort of strategy book on American foreign policy

1105
01:10:48,853 --> 01:10:51,093
Speaker 3: as a kind of guide to it. Then there's the

1106
01:10:51,253 --> 01:10:54,773
Speaker 3: sixteen people running for the Republican nomination praying that one

1107
01:10:54,813 --> 01:10:57,293
Speaker 3: of them would would make it through, and it's it's

1108
01:10:57,333 --> 01:10:59,973
Speaker 3: you know, it's it's a it's a critique of Obama

1109
01:11:00,053 --> 01:11:02,613
Speaker 3: and Clinton foreign policy. And then they're like, you know,

1110
01:11:02,693 --> 01:11:04,733
Speaker 3: this is I think, how this is what makes sense?

1111
01:11:05,293 --> 01:11:08,293
Speaker 3: You could do it better? But no, it's I thought

1112
01:11:08,373 --> 01:11:10,933
Speaker 3: about it more recently in terms of the recent elections

1113
01:11:11,213 --> 01:11:14,213
Speaker 3: and all that's, all the changes, all the popular culture changes,

1114
01:11:14,533 --> 01:11:18,013
Speaker 3: or the polling we've done, all of that. I haven't

1115
01:11:18,053 --> 01:11:20,933
Speaker 3: probably had my excuses. I haven't had the time to

1116
01:11:20,933 --> 01:11:23,573
Speaker 3: really zero in on what makes the most where I

1117
01:11:23,573 --> 01:11:28,013
Speaker 3: could offer the most value, and where the greatest interest

1118
01:11:28,053 --> 01:11:33,333
Speaker 3: would be whether those two could cross paths, and so

1119
01:11:34,133 --> 01:11:36,773
Speaker 3: we haven't been there yet. But I appreciate you you

1120
01:11:36,893 --> 01:11:40,293
Speaker 3: thinking that at this stage I have it in me.

1121
01:11:40,373 --> 01:11:43,013
Speaker 2: Since I've said that, everyone listening is saying the same thing,

1122
01:11:43,213 --> 01:11:48,813
Speaker 2: because your bank of knowledge and wisdom in many cases is.

1123
01:11:49,653 --> 01:11:54,093
Speaker 3: Right up there. And as always lead You're very kind.

1124
01:11:53,933 --> 01:11:55,813
Speaker 2: And I'm looking up at my bookshelf at the moment

1125
01:11:55,853 --> 01:11:59,413
Speaker 2: I see the deaths of money.

1126
01:12:00,253 --> 01:12:05,893
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yes, sorry, and just does a circle back cash,

1127
01:12:06,573 --> 01:12:10,173
Speaker 3: you know, the plot to eliminate from our lives. That's

1128
01:12:10,173 --> 01:12:13,333
Speaker 3: one of the huge battles that's massively underreported.

1129
01:12:13,693 --> 01:12:18,973
Speaker 2: Patrick. I've been on that case for a decade at least,

1130
01:12:19,373 --> 01:12:23,453
Speaker 2: and I agree with you entirely, and I have and

1131
01:12:23,573 --> 01:12:27,333
Speaker 2: I have, I might say had I believe a small

1132
01:12:27,373 --> 01:12:32,813
Speaker 2: amount of influence here in convincing people that they should

1133
01:12:32,853 --> 01:12:38,653
Speaker 2: always have cash with them, and that well the blackout,

1134
01:12:38,893 --> 01:12:43,413
Speaker 2: of course in Spain has led weight to that as well, hugely.

1135
01:12:44,133 --> 01:12:48,493
Speaker 3: As soone much wiser than me has told me, always

1136
01:12:48,493 --> 01:12:52,893
Speaker 3: remember Patrick, never in writing, always in cash. I love it.

1137
01:12:53,533 --> 01:12:57,173
Speaker 2: So once again you've excelled. Thank you kindly, and I

1138
01:12:57,213 --> 01:12:59,773
Speaker 2: trust that we shall talk soon. You're going back to

1139
01:12:59,813 --> 01:13:02,853
Speaker 2: the conference where you go we'll have been going the

1140
01:13:02,933 --> 01:13:04,733
Speaker 2: last few years in the Middle East.

1141
01:13:04,813 --> 01:13:07,453
Speaker 3: Yeah, I will be. I'll be at the Future Investment

1142
01:13:07,493 --> 01:13:12,813
Speaker 3: Initiative Conference in Read in October. In late September, I

1143
01:13:12,853 --> 01:13:17,013
Speaker 3: will be uh at a speaking at a business conference

1144
01:13:17,173 --> 01:13:17,893
Speaker 3: in Dubai.

1145
01:13:18,573 --> 01:13:21,813
Speaker 2: I find that interesting. I expect you to expect you

1146
01:13:21,853 --> 01:13:24,173
Speaker 2: to carry a bed or a sign that says cash

1147
01:13:24,333 --> 01:13:24,653
Speaker 2: is king.

1148
01:13:28,013 --> 01:13:30,333
Speaker 3: Anyway, Well, the thing is when you when you're in

1149
01:13:30,373 --> 01:13:34,453
Speaker 3: a when you're in a Middle Eastern bazaar, the haggling

1150
01:13:34,533 --> 01:13:37,773
Speaker 3: is you know, is is essential to the whole experience,

1151
01:13:38,293 --> 01:13:45,773
Speaker 3: and so cash cash often is king. Fortunately, refreshingly, reassuringly.

1152
01:13:46,693 --> 01:13:49,893
Speaker 2: Indeed, Patrick, once again, thank you heaps, and we'll talk

1153
01:13:50,213 --> 01:13:51,613
Speaker 2: in the not too distant.

1154
01:13:51,933 --> 01:13:54,893
Speaker 3: It's been my great pleasure to lighton my good wishes

1155
01:13:54,933 --> 01:14:14,413
Speaker 3: to you and your fine audience. Thank you so much, missus.

1156
01:14:14,413 --> 01:14:15,933
Speaker 2: Producer. Are you ready later?

1157
01:14:16,053 --> 01:14:16,893
Speaker 4: I'm all he is.

1158
01:14:16,973 --> 01:14:21,653
Speaker 2: Podcast to eighty seven the mail Room and it's been

1159
01:14:21,653 --> 01:14:26,013
Speaker 2: a holiday weekend. You can tell now from Barry. I

1160
01:14:26,093 --> 01:14:28,933
Speaker 2: listened to podcasts to eighty six with much interest. Nigel

1161
01:14:29,053 --> 01:14:33,773
Speaker 2: and Justin were suitably engaged or engaging as you did

1162
01:14:33,853 --> 01:14:40,253
Speaker 2: quite well yourself. I love won't won't I won't anybody

1163
01:14:40,253 --> 01:14:45,213
Speaker 2: put in brackets for what it's worth here are some

1164
01:14:45,293 --> 01:14:48,733
Speaker 2: of my thoughts which followed from the discussion. The development

1165
01:14:48,733 --> 01:14:51,693
Speaker 2: of AI has been predicted for many years, often the

1166
01:14:51,733 --> 01:14:55,453
Speaker 2: basis of some very good sci fi themes. It's an

1167
01:14:55,493 --> 01:14:59,813
Speaker 2: inevitable evolution of human development, something to which we adapt,

1168
01:15:00,173 --> 01:15:04,133
Speaker 2: else we become irrelevant. By the way, I'm seventy six

1169
01:15:04,173 --> 01:15:06,373
Speaker 2: as I write this, Gosh, you're getting on a bit.

1170
01:15:07,093 --> 01:15:09,973
Speaker 2: Simply put, some all jobs will go and new ones

1171
01:15:10,013 --> 01:15:14,573
Speaker 2: will emerge, a timeless cycle. Carefully developed and managed AI

1172
01:15:14,693 --> 01:15:18,213
Speaker 2: should be a highly valuable tool for humankind. However, there

1173
01:15:18,293 --> 01:15:22,773
Speaker 2: are obvious pros and cons, as with anything of significance,

1174
01:15:23,373 --> 01:15:27,773
Speaker 2: so some pros that are evident. The ability of AI

1175
01:15:27,893 --> 01:15:31,173
Speaker 2: to rapidly sift through data is a clear advantage, time

1176
01:15:31,213 --> 01:15:37,133
Speaker 2: wastage minimized with increased chances of breakthrough discoveries. Neutrality, a

1177
01:15:37,253 --> 01:15:41,373
Speaker 2: dispassionate AI review of data could be useful With the

1178
01:15:41,493 --> 01:15:45,933
Speaker 2: human emotions and bias absent, here's the butt. Would all

1179
01:15:46,053 --> 01:15:52,373
Speaker 2: programmers avoid bias? Could judges become AI? That might be

1180
01:15:52,413 --> 01:15:56,573
Speaker 2: a pro or a con. A pro risk management an

1181
01:15:56,613 --> 01:15:59,933
Speaker 2: AI ability to scan and consider a situation or incident

1182
01:16:00,013 --> 01:16:03,373
Speaker 2: prior to the deployment of humans who might otherwise be

1183
01:16:03,493 --> 01:16:07,173
Speaker 2: injured or killed is a big plus potentially that would

1184
01:16:07,173 --> 01:16:11,893
Speaker 2: apply domestically as well as militarily. On the subject of

1185
01:16:11,933 --> 01:16:15,373
Speaker 2: the military, I can imagine that the structures of conflict

1186
01:16:15,413 --> 01:16:19,533
Speaker 2: will change, and certainly weapons will keep pace. Instead of

1187
01:16:19,533 --> 01:16:22,293
Speaker 2: smashing an opponent to a mass of bodies in rubble,

1188
01:16:22,853 --> 01:16:26,213
Speaker 2: an AI assisted victory might see a collapse of the

1189
01:16:26,293 --> 01:16:31,773
Speaker 2: loser's systems and societal structure, with the victor taking over

1190
01:16:31,853 --> 01:16:37,333
Speaker 2: from there. Domination would properly follow tradition, though subjugation, new laws,

1191
01:16:37,453 --> 01:16:42,053
Speaker 2: new taxes, indoctrination, then the disappearance of trouble makers and

1192
01:16:42,213 --> 01:16:48,093
Speaker 2: so on cons really depend on one's imagination. Human nature

1193
01:16:48,133 --> 01:16:50,693
Speaker 2: means that we can expect a CD side to emerge

1194
01:16:50,693 --> 01:16:54,573
Speaker 2: as well as illegal activity. Criminals seek power and fortune

1195
01:16:54,933 --> 01:16:57,813
Speaker 2: as though they will adapt and turn the technologies to

1196
01:16:57,893 --> 01:17:01,773
Speaker 2: their advantage when they can. Others will simply seek power

1197
01:17:01,813 --> 01:17:07,173
Speaker 2: and control because they desire such things as Goebils infamously remarked,

1198
01:17:07,493 --> 01:17:10,773
Speaker 2: propaganda works best when those who are being manipulated a

1199
01:17:10,853 --> 01:17:15,413
Speaker 2: confident that they're acting on their own free will. In closing,

1200
01:17:15,493 --> 01:17:21,493
Speaker 2: carefully considered regulation is essential, ideally agreed across international boundaries.

1201
01:17:21,893 --> 01:17:24,293
Speaker 2: I apologize for the length of this email, Laton, thank

1202
01:17:24,293 --> 01:17:27,613
Speaker 2: you again for these fascinating discussions. I am already looking

1203
01:17:27,613 --> 01:17:30,413
Speaker 2: forward to the next issue with warm regards to missus

1204
01:17:30,413 --> 01:17:32,213
Speaker 2: producer from Barry.

1205
01:17:32,213 --> 01:17:35,933
Speaker 4: That's so nice, Barry, Thank you, Laton. Bill says your

1206
01:17:36,133 --> 01:17:40,253
Speaker 4: AI podcast with Nigel and Justin was probably the most

1207
01:17:40,293 --> 01:17:45,053
Speaker 4: important and incredible podcast of yours I've heard, and just

1208
01:17:45,133 --> 01:17:48,613
Speaker 4: Layton as a side note, I know not of Justin,

1209
01:17:48,893 --> 01:17:53,613
Speaker 4: but Nigel was our news editor and a journalist back

1210
01:17:53,613 --> 01:17:57,733
Speaker 4: in the day, and a very very very fine news

1211
01:17:57,813 --> 01:18:01,533
Speaker 4: editor and journalist. He was too, and an incredibly nice man,

1212
01:18:01,613 --> 01:18:04,213
Speaker 4: so it was so nice to hear that. And then

1213
01:18:04,293 --> 01:18:07,813
Speaker 4: Bill goes on to say, and I'm a regular listener

1214
01:18:07,853 --> 01:18:10,253
Speaker 4: although this this is the first time I have emailed you.

1215
01:18:10,813 --> 01:18:15,413
Speaker 4: What clever, interesting, knowledgeable and insightful people. I had no

1216
01:18:15,533 --> 01:18:18,613
Speaker 4: idea about any of this, not at all. That is

1217
01:18:18,653 --> 01:18:22,253
Speaker 4: why your podcasts are so critical. We all need to

1218
01:18:22,293 --> 01:18:24,453
Speaker 4: know about this. So I have passed on the podcast

1219
01:18:24,533 --> 01:18:28,453
Speaker 4: to others. Please have them back regularly the next few years.

1220
01:18:28,493 --> 01:18:31,813
Speaker 4: Sounds scary, and Bill goes on to say, I have

1221
01:18:31,853 --> 01:18:35,293
Speaker 4: a lovely longtime wife. I don't need an AI companion.

1222
01:18:35,413 --> 01:18:38,613
Speaker 4: But it is obvious from what Nigel and Justin said

1223
01:18:38,653 --> 01:18:42,573
Speaker 4: we are all in for intrusion from AI. Thank you,

1224
01:18:42,613 --> 01:18:45,333
Speaker 4: says Bill. I can't stop thinking about it. I had

1225
01:18:45,373 --> 01:18:45,973
Speaker 4: no idea.

1226
01:18:46,173 --> 01:18:49,293
Speaker 2: Don't lose any sleep, Bill, it's not worth it. But

1227
01:18:49,773 --> 01:18:53,413
Speaker 2: it's a good letter. Speaking of speaking of such things,

1228
01:18:53,573 --> 01:18:56,973
Speaker 2: I got a very loud complaint, shall we say, from

1229
01:18:56,973 --> 01:19:02,053
Speaker 2: Australia from someone over it. I said, well, write a letter,

1230
01:19:02,493 --> 01:19:06,253
Speaker 2: haven't received it. Maybe they're all just mouth What were

1231
01:19:06,293 --> 01:19:09,213
Speaker 2: they complaining about about the about the AI?

1232
01:19:10,173 --> 01:19:10,933
Speaker 3: What was their complain?

1233
01:19:13,333 --> 01:19:17,293
Speaker 2: Well, some people are and some people are inclined to

1234
01:19:17,333 --> 01:19:19,413
Speaker 2: be bizarre and some people are entitled to people. What

1235
01:19:19,413 --> 01:19:24,053
Speaker 2: were they wanted to hear? Do you know didn't get

1236
01:19:24,093 --> 01:19:28,733
Speaker 2: the letter? Okay, that's queerest folk. The fact that he's

1237
01:19:28,733 --> 01:19:31,733
Speaker 2: a friend of mine doesn't make any I wondered when

1238
01:19:31,733 --> 01:19:36,813
Speaker 2: you might pass that one on now? From John? When

1239
01:19:36,813 --> 01:19:40,333
Speaker 2: will they face reality sections of the media? I mean

1240
01:19:40,973 --> 01:19:44,293
Speaker 2: good piece by Carl Defraye and Spectator on the seventeenth

1241
01:19:44,333 --> 01:19:48,653
Speaker 2: of May and from James Allen. Carl points to New

1242
01:19:48,773 --> 01:19:53,533
Speaker 2: Zealand newspaper circulation figures declining to an embarrassing extent. Then

1243
01:19:53,573 --> 01:19:56,053
Speaker 2: he goes on and mentions a few things that I

1244
01:19:56,213 --> 01:20:00,253
Speaker 2: just might leap out finishes up referring to somebody who

1245
01:20:00,293 --> 01:20:03,533
Speaker 2: works in the media, in the paper media, if he

1246
01:20:03,613 --> 01:20:09,053
Speaker 2: had any intellectual or moral probity, which is doubtful. He

1247
01:20:09,133 --> 01:20:11,453
Speaker 2: knows who the dunces are. Thank you, John.

1248
01:20:13,013 --> 01:20:15,213
Speaker 4: Leyden Jin says in twenty twenty two.

1249
01:20:15,173 --> 01:20:17,053
Speaker 2: Much he wasn't talking about me.

1250
01:20:17,693 --> 01:20:21,893
Speaker 4: Leyden Jin says. In twenty twenty two, Matt Walsh released

1251
01:20:21,893 --> 01:20:25,573
Speaker 4: what was possibly the most important documentary in our lifetime,

1252
01:20:25,813 --> 01:20:29,133
Speaker 4: What Is a Woman. Within just one year, the documentary

1253
01:20:29,213 --> 01:20:33,133
Speaker 4: hit over one hundred and eighty million views. Matt's documentary

1254
01:20:33,213 --> 01:20:35,933
Speaker 4: hit the nail on the zeitgeist's head in an age

1255
01:20:35,973 --> 01:20:39,053
Speaker 4: where women must shut up while men became women and

1256
01:20:39,173 --> 01:20:44,213
Speaker 4: wiped womanhood out of existence. Fast forward to twenty twenty five,

1257
01:20:44,453 --> 01:20:48,453
Speaker 4: we have reached another zeitgeist, an age where AI is

1258
01:20:48,493 --> 01:20:53,693
Speaker 4: replacing the very essence of humanity. AI is permeating everything

1259
01:20:53,733 --> 01:20:58,933
Speaker 4: we do, constantly listening. AI is permeating everything we do,

1260
01:20:59,093 --> 01:21:04,893
Speaker 4: constantly listening, constantly learning, constantly growing into an electric showcase

1261
01:21:05,533 --> 01:21:08,893
Speaker 4: of the best and worst of humanity combined. I love

1262
01:21:08,973 --> 01:21:11,773
Speaker 4: the dynamic feel of your first ever podcast duet with

1263
01:21:11,893 --> 01:21:15,413
Speaker 4: Nigel Horricks and Justin Matthews. They really got me thinking

1264
01:21:15,453 --> 01:21:18,373
Speaker 4: that AI might well be the alien life form we've

1265
01:21:18,413 --> 01:21:21,933
Speaker 4: all been searching for, and they've been rewiring our brains

1266
01:21:21,973 --> 01:21:26,893
Speaker 4: while we happily consumed their algorithms in the form of news, entertainment,

1267
01:21:27,133 --> 01:21:32,333
Speaker 4: and social media. Just today, in their Creative Machinist substack,

1268
01:21:32,453 --> 01:21:35,453
Speaker 4: they talked about the tragic death of Seawell, a fourteen

1269
01:21:35,533 --> 01:21:40,093
Speaker 4: year old boy who committed suicide after forming an intense

1270
01:21:40,333 --> 01:21:44,333
Speaker 4: emotional bond with an AI chatbot model on a character

1271
01:21:44,373 --> 01:21:48,573
Speaker 4: from Game of Thrones. The company behind this AI chatbot

1272
01:21:48,613 --> 01:21:51,613
Speaker 4: even tried to argue that their chatbots should be protected

1273
01:21:51,693 --> 01:21:56,493
Speaker 4: under the First Amendment. Insane, isn't it. We may well

1274
01:21:56,533 --> 01:21:59,573
Speaker 4: have slipped quietly into World War III, except that this

1275
01:21:59,733 --> 01:22:03,773
Speaker 4: time round AI is the weapon, our minds the battlefield,

1276
01:22:03,933 --> 01:22:07,853
Speaker 4: and our humanity the price. If the long March through

1277
01:22:07,893 --> 01:22:10,733
Speaker 4: the instant took fifteen years, the long March through the

1278
01:22:10,813 --> 01:22:13,253
Speaker 4: minds will only take three to five years or less.

1279
01:22:14,013 --> 01:22:17,173
Speaker 4: Perhaps it's time for Matt Walsh to wield his magic

1280
01:22:17,253 --> 01:22:20,853
Speaker 4: again and release the next most important documentary of all

1281
01:22:20,893 --> 01:22:23,813
Speaker 4: time and call it What Is a Human? This time

1282
01:22:23,853 --> 01:22:27,373
Speaker 4: we rediscovered what it means to be human again. Without

1283
01:22:27,613 --> 01:22:28,973
Speaker 4: chatch ept's help.

1284
01:22:29,893 --> 01:22:33,613
Speaker 2: Is that good? There are? Yeah, there are things that

1285
01:22:33,653 --> 01:22:36,693
Speaker 2: are falling into place, predictions and what have you that

1286
01:22:37,253 --> 01:22:39,693
Speaker 2: have I mean, who was it that said it's been around?

1287
01:22:40,493 --> 01:22:42,853
Speaker 2: I read that's been around for or in the making

1288
01:22:42,853 --> 01:22:45,653
Speaker 2: for a long time? Was on incoming if you like?

1289
01:22:46,093 --> 01:22:48,213
Speaker 2: There are plenty of things that are incoming, and they're

1290
01:22:48,213 --> 01:22:52,933
Speaker 2: not all good, just saying so from Craig. By the way,

1291
01:22:53,453 --> 01:22:55,533
Speaker 2: for those of you who write niceties that I might

1292
01:22:55,573 --> 01:23:00,093
Speaker 2: not read, don't think they're unappreciated at all. Your podcast

1293
01:23:00,133 --> 01:23:02,613
Speaker 2: on AI was an eye opener and touched on the

1294
01:23:02,653 --> 01:23:07,613
Speaker 2: same human interaction challenges that I have just finished presenting

1295
01:23:07,653 --> 01:23:12,293
Speaker 2: on At an engineering conference, I had a hilarious interaction

1296
01:23:12,453 --> 01:23:16,253
Speaker 2: with Facebook's meta AI on a topic very dear to

1297
01:23:16,373 --> 01:23:20,893
Speaker 2: you and I, climate change. The responses absolutely underwrote the

1298
01:23:21,013 --> 01:23:25,253
Speaker 2: inherent bias possible with AI as raised in your podcast.

1299
01:23:25,693 --> 01:23:29,853
Speaker 2: I have included the screen snaps of my conversation, but

1300
01:23:29,973 --> 01:23:32,333
Speaker 2: I don't expect you to read them out, as I

1301
01:23:32,413 --> 01:23:37,773
Speaker 2: am a bit sweary. Here is the summary. I started

1302
01:23:37,773 --> 01:23:40,333
Speaker 2: out reading an article about the collapse of a glacier

1303
01:23:40,333 --> 01:23:43,453
Speaker 2: in the Swiss Alps. AI offered an explanation of why

1304
01:23:43,533 --> 01:23:47,533
Speaker 2: the event happened, so I clicked on it out of interest.

1305
01:23:48,213 --> 01:23:52,693
Speaker 2: Of course, AI walked straight into the trap, blaming mankind

1306
01:23:52,973 --> 01:23:56,853
Speaker 2: climate change, which got my hackles up. I decided to

1307
01:23:56,933 --> 01:24:02,533
Speaker 2: challenge it. So me, he says me him, Why do

1308
01:24:02,613 --> 01:24:06,653
Speaker 2: you quote climate change? This is just an ideological construct.

1309
01:24:07,133 --> 01:24:12,933
Speaker 2: AI responded that it provides evidence based information, quoting IPCC, NASA.

1310
01:24:13,533 --> 01:24:18,213
Speaker 2: No A me, so what about sea level rise? AI

1311
01:24:18,373 --> 01:24:23,373
Speaker 2: responded with the fact fact that sea levels have risen

1312
01:24:23,493 --> 01:24:29,133
Speaker 2: eight to nine inches since eighteen eighty. I responded again, BS,

1313
01:24:30,053 --> 01:24:33,453
Speaker 2: show me one location where this level of rise has occurred.

1314
01:24:34,493 --> 01:24:40,813
Speaker 2: AI suddenly backtracked and said it is complicated and quoted projections.

1315
01:24:41,653 --> 01:24:44,893
Speaker 2: It admitted it could not find a specific location. This

1316
01:24:45,133 --> 01:24:50,533
Speaker 2: is an explosive admission. A globally powerful AI search engine

1317
01:24:50,533 --> 01:24:54,373
Speaker 2: could not find one actual occurrence of sea level rise.

1318
01:24:55,533 --> 01:25:00,053
Speaker 2: I responded with, so you disprove your eight dash nine,

1319
01:25:00,093 --> 01:25:04,493
Speaker 2: don't you. AI then changed its story that it was

1320
01:25:04,613 --> 01:25:11,053
Speaker 2: quoting general information. I responded with, you're talking BS and

1321
01:25:11,093 --> 01:25:16,853
Speaker 2: claiming it as facts. I apologized for me. It was

1322
01:25:16,893 --> 01:25:20,293
Speaker 2: revealing a little like trying to reason with Chloe issual

1323
01:25:20,453 --> 01:25:27,013
Speaker 2: break try it yourself sometimes. I did, actually with the

1324
01:25:27,333 --> 01:25:32,373
Speaker 2: aforementioned Chloe, try it sometime. It is cheap entertainment. What

1325
01:25:32,493 --> 01:25:36,093
Speaker 2: it does underline, though, is the dangerous effect of bias

1326
01:25:36,133 --> 01:25:38,573
Speaker 2: in the AI world. Craig, I'm going to say, that's

1327
01:25:38,613 --> 01:25:45,533
Speaker 2: a real great commentary. Thank youss producer. We're done.

1328
01:25:45,813 --> 01:25:49,813
Speaker 4: We're done late for another week, so thank.

1329
01:25:49,613 --> 01:25:53,293
Speaker 2: You next next week. Yes, I was going to say.

1330
01:25:53,133 --> 01:25:57,093
Speaker 3: Next you run out of run out of puff all day.

1331
01:25:57,173 --> 01:26:00,493
Speaker 2: No, I'm fine, thank you, But I tell you what,

1332
01:26:00,573 --> 01:26:03,853
Speaker 2: I really just leave you with this sort. I really

1333
01:26:04,093 --> 01:26:09,613
Speaker 2: enjoyed today with Patrick Basham. Yes he's always good. I

1334
01:26:09,653 --> 01:26:14,373
Speaker 2: just thought today he was good plus excellent, he excelled. Yes,

1335
01:26:14,413 --> 01:26:18,973
Speaker 2: he's always good. We like Patrick, we do. Thank you, Flater,

1336
01:26:27,813 --> 01:26:32,653
Speaker 2: Layton Smith and so to net zero and other matters

1337
01:26:32,693 --> 01:26:36,213
Speaker 2: with regard to climate. Some time ago I decided that

1338
01:26:36,493 --> 01:26:40,093
Speaker 2: the word stupid should get greater exercise, because the word

1339
01:26:40,133 --> 01:26:45,493
Speaker 2: stupid is much under utilized, especially regarding some most important

1340
01:26:45,493 --> 01:26:50,933
Speaker 2: matters like power supply. A number of events and announcements worldwide,

1341
01:26:50,933 --> 01:26:54,893
Speaker 2: in fact, have exposed the stupidity that still exists in

1342
01:26:54,933 --> 01:27:00,773
Speaker 2: this so called enlightened era CO two climate debate. Paris Accord.

1343
01:27:00,813 --> 01:27:04,293
Speaker 2: Just to begin, lev he repeats CO two the climate

1344
01:27:04,333 --> 01:27:09,613
Speaker 2: debate Paris accord. Every country has its percentage of stupidity.

1345
01:27:10,133 --> 01:27:14,013
Speaker 2: The Australian Climate and Energy Minister Chris Bowen would fall

1346
01:27:14,053 --> 01:27:17,053
Speaker 2: into the ranks of world leader stupid. He and his

1347
01:27:17,133 --> 01:27:22,533
Speaker 2: PM are intent on destroying the Australian economy willingly or otherwise,

1348
01:27:23,013 --> 01:27:26,853
Speaker 2: or should I say knowingly or otherwise. The following is

1349
01:27:26,893 --> 01:27:29,773
Speaker 2: a comment by doctor David Phillips, who is a former

1350
01:27:29,933 --> 01:27:34,893
Speaker 2: research scientist and the founder of Family Voice Australia. He

1351
01:27:34,933 --> 01:27:38,653
Speaker 2: published in The Spectator this current Week an article on

1352
01:27:38,853 --> 01:27:42,533
Speaker 2: mad about the Climate. This is the conclusion of his piece.

1353
01:27:43,453 --> 01:27:49,173
Speaker 2: Here's the deal. Australia abandons cheap, reliable coal generated electricity

1354
01:27:49,333 --> 01:27:53,453
Speaker 2: required by what's left of our manufacturing industry in pursuit

1355
01:27:53,453 --> 01:27:57,253
Speaker 2: of net zero by twenty fifty. We export vast qualities

1356
01:27:57,253 --> 01:28:00,293
Speaker 2: of coal to countries that don't care about CO two

1357
01:28:00,333 --> 01:28:04,293
Speaker 2: emissions for them to use cheap coal generated electricity to

1358
01:28:04,413 --> 01:28:09,733
Speaker 2: expand their manufacturing industry. In echo of George Orwell's nineteen

1359
01:28:09,733 --> 01:28:14,293
Speaker 2: eighty four all CO two emissions are equal, but omissions

1360
01:28:14,293 --> 01:28:17,493
Speaker 2: in some countries are more equal than in others. If

1361
01:28:17,493 --> 01:28:20,573
Speaker 2: you can make sense of this, dear reader, you're a

1362
01:28:20,613 --> 01:28:24,213
Speaker 2: better man than I am. Gonga Din. The great English

1363
01:28:24,213 --> 01:28:28,253
Speaker 2: scientist Sir Isaac Newton once said, I can calculate the

1364
01:28:28,333 --> 01:28:32,333
Speaker 2: motion of heavenly bodies, but not the madness of people.

1365
01:28:32,853 --> 01:28:36,333
Speaker 2: Australia seems to be mad about the climate now. In

1366
01:28:36,373 --> 01:28:42,413
Speaker 2: a parallel piece in The Spectator, Rebecca Wiser writes, referring

1367
01:28:42,453 --> 01:28:47,213
Speaker 2: to the aforementioned Chris Bowen, Bowen claims the silent majority

1368
01:28:47,293 --> 01:28:49,933
Speaker 2: backs his ned zero fantasy, Yet he was the one

1369
01:28:49,973 --> 01:28:52,533
Speaker 2: who was silent during the election after the Prime Minister

1370
01:28:52,653 --> 01:28:57,413
Speaker 2: abandoned the powering Australian modeling that it took to the

1371
01:28:57,453 --> 01:29:02,533
Speaker 2: twenty twenty two election that underpinned its joke promise joke

1372
01:29:02,613 --> 01:29:06,453
Speaker 2: promise to cut power bills by two hundred and seventy

1373
01:29:06,453 --> 01:29:08,933
Speaker 2: five dollars a year by twenty twenty five and by

1374
01:29:08,973 --> 01:29:13,533
Speaker 2: three hundred seventy eight by twenty thirty. The only energy

1375
01:29:13,573 --> 01:29:17,053
Speaker 2: policy Labour discussed during the campaign was Peter Dutton and

1376
01:29:17,133 --> 01:29:21,373
Speaker 2: Ted O'Brien's plan to build seven nuclear plants on coalsites,

1377
01:29:21,773 --> 01:29:26,373
Speaker 2: costed by Labour add a staggering six hundred billion to

1378
01:29:26,453 --> 01:29:29,293
Speaker 2: hit net zero by twenty fifty. Now that is a

1379
01:29:29,333 --> 01:29:32,893
Speaker 2: prize piece of scare nomics, she writes. Yet Dutton and

1380
01:29:32,893 --> 01:29:38,133
Speaker 2: O'Brien failed to explain the reality as countries like Finland

1381
01:29:38,173 --> 01:29:41,293
Speaker 2: and Korea have shown the cost would be far lower.

1382
01:29:41,933 --> 01:29:45,613
Speaker 2: The first plant might cost fourteen billion, with each subsequent

1383
01:29:45,733 --> 01:29:49,413
Speaker 2: unit ten to twenty five percent cheaper, so the total

1384
01:29:49,693 --> 01:29:53,533
Speaker 2: closer to eighty to ninety billion. Yet the deeper floor

1385
01:29:53,613 --> 01:29:57,373
Speaker 2: in O'Brien's plan was accepting the net zero by twenty

1386
01:29:57,493 --> 01:30:01,293
Speaker 2: fifty target at all. Labour cleverly refused to cost its

1387
01:30:01,293 --> 01:30:04,533
Speaker 2: own plan, But according to the Net Zero Australia project

1388
01:30:05,133 --> 01:30:09,133
Speaker 2: run by the Universities of Melbourne, Princeton and others, its

1389
01:30:09,173 --> 01:30:13,293
Speaker 2: renewables back scheme would cost seven to nine trillion by

1390
01:30:13,573 --> 01:30:16,813
Speaker 2: twenty sixty, an eye watering one hundred and ninety four

1391
01:30:16,853 --> 01:30:19,733
Speaker 2: to two hundred and fifty billion a year from twenty

1392
01:30:19,813 --> 01:30:23,413
Speaker 2: five to sixty, that is twenty sixty. It is this

1393
01:30:23,533 --> 01:30:27,853
Speaker 2: that makes nuclear cheap by comparison, this mad scheme involves

1394
01:30:27,893 --> 01:30:34,053
Speaker 2: tripling the national electricity market and carpeting sixty eight million hectares.

1395
01:30:34,733 --> 01:30:41,373
Speaker 2: Imagine this carpeting sixty eight million hectares about nine percent

1396
01:30:41,453 --> 01:30:44,853
Speaker 2: of the country with one point nine t w of

1397
01:30:44,933 --> 01:30:49,653
Speaker 2: solar one thirty two GW of onshore wind, forty two

1398
01:30:49,733 --> 01:30:54,973
Speaker 2: GW of offshore wind, and ten thousand kilometers of transmission

1399
01:30:55,013 --> 01:30:59,813
Speaker 2: lines poorly stabilized by batteries and hydro mandated electric vehicles

1400
01:30:59,813 --> 01:31:04,493
Speaker 2: in heat pumps, vast desalination to produce green hydrogen, and

1401
01:31:04,573 --> 01:31:07,933
Speaker 2: a network of pipelines to capture and transport CO two

1402
01:31:08,013 --> 01:31:13,453
Speaker 2: to storage sites. The whole scheme is bonkers. So why

1403
01:31:13,453 --> 01:31:16,053
Speaker 2: didn't Dutton and O'Brien tell Labor that they were dreaming?

1404
01:31:16,693 --> 01:31:20,293
Speaker 2: Because the Liberal left add its venal rent seekers. What

1405
01:31:20,453 --> 01:31:24,533
Speaker 2: a hop on board the net zero gravy train. That's

1406
01:31:24,573 --> 01:31:28,093
Speaker 2: also why a group no one's heard of, Liberals Against Nuclear,

1407
01:31:28,493 --> 01:31:31,853
Speaker 2: has been running ads on Sky News since the election.

1408
01:31:32,493 --> 01:31:37,053
Speaker 2: Yet nuclear is only indispensable if you're chasing net zero delusions,

1409
01:31:37,373 --> 01:31:41,933
Speaker 2: which even then are unachievable with current technology. In the

1410
01:31:41,973 --> 01:31:46,293
Speaker 2: real world, a responsible government would face the strategic and

1411
01:31:46,373 --> 01:31:51,053
Speaker 2: physical threats bearing down on Australia and do the only

1412
01:31:51,213 --> 01:31:53,453
Speaker 2: sensible thing, go for growth.

1413
01:31:54,053 --> 01:31:54,173
Speaker 3: Now.

1414
01:31:54,173 --> 01:31:58,133
Speaker 2: One of the great intellects of science the New Zealand

1415
01:31:58,173 --> 01:32:01,813
Speaker 2: has produced is Professor Michael Kelly. Born and bred in

1416
01:32:01,853 --> 01:32:06,093
Speaker 2: New Zealand, he ended up in England and has reached

1417
01:32:06,973 --> 01:32:10,733
Speaker 2: massive heights of reckinggn and respect Now. I've interviewed him

1418
01:32:10,733 --> 01:32:14,293
Speaker 2: on two occasions over the years. He was here actually

1419
01:32:14,453 --> 01:32:17,693
Speaker 2: just earlier this year, but we couldn't couldn't organize a

1420
01:32:17,733 --> 01:32:22,333
Speaker 2: get together. But I've picked out something that he wrote

1421
01:32:23,213 --> 01:32:27,613
Speaker 2: back in twenty eighteen. Why twenty eighteen and not recently well,

1422
01:32:27,653 --> 01:32:31,493
Speaker 2: it is a self explanatory I think climate change mitigation

1423
01:32:31,613 --> 01:32:35,613
Speaker 2: in New Zealand the stifling of debate. This paper is

1424
01:32:35,653 --> 01:32:38,653
Speaker 2: in three sections. The first is a paper I wrote

1425
01:32:38,773 --> 01:32:42,173
Speaker 2: examining in detail claims made in a report by the

1426
01:32:42,253 --> 01:32:46,253
Speaker 2: Royal Society of New Zealand in twenty sixteen on transitioning

1427
01:32:46,293 --> 01:32:50,413
Speaker 2: New Zealand to a low carbon economy. Three of forty

1428
01:32:50,493 --> 01:32:56,093
Speaker 2: six recommendations three of forty six made sense both economically

1429
01:32:56,493 --> 01:33:00,413
Speaker 2: and environmentally, three out of forty six eight made no

1430
01:33:00,493 --> 01:33:04,933
Speaker 2: difference to either, and all the others were detrimental to

1431
01:33:05,013 --> 01:33:09,373
Speaker 2: the New Zealand economy and or were ineffective at reducing

1432
01:33:09,413 --> 01:33:13,333
Speaker 2: CO two emissions. I pointed out the futility of cutting

1433
01:33:13,373 --> 01:33:16,733
Speaker 2: emissions when the Chinese are growing at a much greater

1434
01:33:16,853 --> 01:33:20,813
Speaker 2: rate in bracketcy rights. I have discovered more recently that

1435
01:33:20,853 --> 01:33:24,013
Speaker 2: with their Belton Road Initiative. Over the next thirty years,

1436
01:33:24,493 --> 01:33:28,093
Speaker 2: they're about to treble their global emissions footprint, which is

1437
01:33:28,133 --> 01:33:32,373
Speaker 2: already at two hundred and seventy times the New Zealand footprint.

1438
01:33:32,853 --> 01:33:35,373
Speaker 2: The original paper is only a third of the length

1439
01:33:35,573 --> 01:33:39,013
Speaker 2: of the report I submitted to the Royal Society New Zealand,

1440
01:33:39,893 --> 01:33:44,253
Speaker 2: and that constraints led to criticisms that to add even

1441
01:33:44,373 --> 01:33:48,813
Speaker 2: more to the paper, which was not allowed. The second

1442
01:33:48,853 --> 01:33:52,213
Speaker 2: section is the correspondence with the editor of the Journal

1443
01:33:52,293 --> 01:33:55,573
Speaker 2: of the Royal Society of New Zealand, where I tried

1444
01:33:55,733 --> 01:33:59,893
Speaker 2: to continue the debate. This represents the second round of submission,

1445
01:34:00,933 --> 01:34:04,693
Speaker 2: as I was able to identify by his comments that

1446
01:34:04,773 --> 01:34:07,413
Speaker 2: one of the first referees was an author of the

1447
01:34:07,413 --> 01:34:11,533
Speaker 2: original report. While the referees thought that the approach to

1448
01:34:11,573 --> 01:34:15,693
Speaker 2: the research was to be lauded, they could not possibly

1449
01:34:15,733 --> 01:34:18,693
Speaker 2: agree with the results and use the old rus of

1450
01:34:18,973 --> 01:34:23,173
Speaker 2: nitpicking instead of unraveling these substantive arguments that I made,

1451
01:34:23,613 --> 01:34:28,013
Speaker 2: which still stand. The third section deals with the correspondence

1452
01:34:28,013 --> 01:34:31,453
Speaker 2: with the editor of the Journal of New Zealand studies

1453
01:34:32,093 --> 01:34:35,533
Speaker 2: with pretty much the same conclusion. This paper is two

1454
01:34:35,613 --> 01:34:39,213
Speaker 2: years old, but I have more empirical data to back

1455
01:34:39,333 --> 01:34:42,573
Speaker 2: up each of the claims that I have made. That's

1456
01:34:42,733 --> 01:34:47,853
Speaker 2: all I want to include, point being that stupidity reigned supreme.

1457
01:34:48,773 --> 01:34:52,693
Speaker 2: I would suggest to you that Professor Michael Kelly has

1458
01:34:52,733 --> 01:34:56,213
Speaker 2: more intelligence, and I'm tempted to say than the entire

1459
01:34:56,733 --> 01:35:01,613
Speaker 2: membership of the New Zealand Royal Society, but that might

1460
01:35:01,653 --> 01:35:04,493
Speaker 2: be just a wee bit of an exaggeration and that'll

1461
01:35:04,493 --> 01:35:07,773
Speaker 2: take us out for podcasts to two hundred and eighty seven.

1462
01:35:08,413 --> 01:35:10,413
Speaker 2: Would like to write to us Latent at the us

1463
01:35:10,453 --> 01:35:13,653
Speaker 2: talks ab dot co dot nz or Carolyn at news

1464
01:35:13,693 --> 01:35:18,333
Speaker 2: talks ab dot co dot nz on this podcast, any

1465
01:35:18,373 --> 01:35:21,333
Speaker 2: other podcasts of mine, and anything else that you might

1466
01:35:21,413 --> 01:35:25,173
Speaker 2: think is worthy of bringing to my attention. So the

1467
01:35:25,173 --> 01:35:27,973
Speaker 2: only thing left to say is, as always, thank you

1468
01:35:28,013 --> 01:35:29,893
Speaker 2: for listening and we'll talk soon.

1469
01:35:37,693 --> 01:35:40,693
Speaker 3: Thank you for more from News Talks ed B.

1470
01:35:41,013 --> 01:35:44,253
Speaker 1: Listen live on air or online, and keep our shows

1471
01:35:44,253 --> 01:35:47,613
Speaker 1: with you wherever you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio