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Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from News Talk sed B.

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Speaker 1: Follow this and our Wide Ranger podcasts now on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hello are you great New Zealands and welcome to Matt

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Speaker 2: and Tyler Podcast Full Show Podcast number one nine for Tuesday,

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Speaker 2: the fifteenth of April.

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Speaker 3: Tyler, it was a great show.

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Speaker 2: Loved the sex ed chat got pretty spicy, We took

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Speaker 2: it to the farm, great greenwashing examples coming through thick

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Speaker 2: and fast on the show. And also a fantastic chat

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Speaker 2: early on about.

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Speaker 3: Recognition. Oh yeah, facial That was a really good chat.

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Speaker 2: It was so we did all the topics we said

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Speaker 2: we were going to do today for the first time

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Speaker 2: a long time. We still haven't done botox, but we'll

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Speaker 2: get there one day.

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Speaker 4: And there was a deep dive about whether bulls can

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Speaker 4: jump and how high can they jump? All part of

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Speaker 4: the sex education chat. Thin give too much away, but

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Speaker 4: that can enlightening.

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Speaker 2: Can a bull jump a cow? Find out later in

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Speaker 2: the show. Set to down the subscribe, et cetera. Good

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Speaker 2: on you all right, lovely soya.

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Speaker 1: The big stories, the big issues, the big trends, and

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Speaker 1: everything in between. Matt Heath and Tyler Adams afternoons News

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Speaker 1: Talk said.

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Speaker 4: Me, Well, good afternoon to you. Welcome into the show.

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Speaker 4: Tuesday seven, pass one. It is a short week. Hope

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Speaker 4: you're feeling good. Short week for most people, not all,

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Speaker 4: but I'm feeling good.

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Speaker 3: Kiday Matt Berg brother is watching you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, facial recognition technology is coming to a supermarket and

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Speaker 2: a hardware store near you.

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Speaker 3: Very very scary. We're going to get into that now.

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Speaker 4: Actually a quick preview for the rest of the show

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Speaker 4: after three o'clock. This is the owner of Glad. You

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Speaker 4: would know that the Glad products are glad rap. For example,

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Speaker 4: it's been ordered to pay eight point two five million

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Speaker 4: dollars for fossil misleading statements. It's said on some of

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Speaker 4: its products that it contained fifty percent recycled ocean plastic.

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Speaker 4: Turns out that's a so called ocean plastic, had never

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Speaker 4: seen the ocean, It was miles away from any sort

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Speaker 4: of water body. It was Indonesian plastic. And they have

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Speaker 4: been fine for those misleading statements. But we're going to

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Speaker 4: take it a bit wider than them.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, our green washing companies the absolute worst of us.

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Speaker 2: How evil are companies that they profit off climate guilt

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Speaker 2: and they pretend to being virtual to be virtuous, but

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Speaker 2: they're actually lying. So people that care about that kind

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Speaker 2: of thing, they get this product because they think that

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Speaker 2: they're clearing the plastic out of the ocean. They're actually

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Speaker 2: not doing that. Yeah, it's really evil. So we want

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Speaker 2: to look into the most egregious green green washing that

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Speaker 2: you see out there. It's absolutely everywhere green washing. And

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Speaker 2: as I said before to you, Tyler, it annoys me

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Speaker 2: when on a plane and they serve you food worth

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Speaker 2: a bamboo knife and fork, as if that covers up

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Speaker 2: the amount of aviation fuel that's been blasted. You accept

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Speaker 2: when you're on a plane. You can't just pretend it's like, hey.

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Speaker 3: Don't look, don't look, don't look out the back here. Yep,

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Speaker 3: look at this. We've got some cardboard and we've got

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Speaker 3: some bamboo nives and forks. It's all absolutely above board. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: that's very sustainable.

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Speaker 4: It's going to be a great chat. After three o'clock.

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Speaker 4: After two o'clock you would have seen this. The government

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Speaker 4: had started consultation on a new draft curriculum for Relationships

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Speaker 4: and Sexuality Education called aris E. But we want to

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Speaker 4: have a chatch you about how you discuss the birds

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Speaker 4: and the bees with your kids.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right, because you'd be a pretty plex, pretty

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Speaker 2: slack parent if you just left sexy it up to

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Speaker 2: the schools. So when and how did you approach it

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Speaker 2: with your kids? When should you? How did you do it?

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Speaker 2: Or maybe you didn't at all, and you just think

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Speaker 2: that's up to the government to educate your kids in

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Speaker 2: these areas.

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Speaker 4: Yep, that is after to o'clock it right now, as

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Speaker 4: you said, map amn pig.

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Speaker 3: Brother, Yeah, eight hundred and eighty ten eight. How do

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Speaker 3: you feel about it?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, So the government has has started to or the

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Speaker 4: Justice Minister he is considering the ramifications of allowing businesses

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Speaker 4: to use facial recognition technology. He says he wants to

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Speaker 4: be as enabling as he can be. But as we know,

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Speaker 4: there was a trial of facial recognition technology done by

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Speaker 4: twenty five New World and pack and Safe stores in

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Speaker 4: the North Island recently. So they say it helped prevent

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Speaker 4: one hundred serious events, but it also misidentified nine people.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and they say going before going forward that it

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Speaker 2: would identify but then a human would look at it

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Speaker 2: and make sure before.

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Speaker 3: They went and checked it.

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Speaker 2: And you can see why they want to do it

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Speaker 2: retail sorry, real retail crime has estimated to cost about

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Speaker 2: two point six billion a year in New Zealand. So

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Speaker 2: and they don't have many powers to deal with shoplifting

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Speaker 2: because taking people to court is too hard. And so

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Speaker 2: you get a situation where someone's robbed you ten times,

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Speaker 2: a facial recognition technology can just go hey, that person's

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Speaker 2: in here, so you can go up to them and

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Speaker 2: say get out because you keep stealing from us.

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Speaker 3: That seems fair enough.

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Speaker 2: And you've got a feel for businesses that are just

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Speaker 2: getting robbed all the time, but also from the other side,

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Speaker 2: because this is a gray and juicy topic, there's strong

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Speaker 2: pushback from the New Zealand Council of Civil Liberty Civil Libertys,

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Speaker 2: which says such sensitive information should not be collected without consent.

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Speaker 2: It fears a slippery.

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Speaker 3: Slope of powerful surveillance database systems with a history of

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Speaker 3: people's whereabouts that police can access without a warrant in

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Speaker 3: a similar way to how police use number plate recognition systems.

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Speaker 2: Right now, so you go into a store, maybe you

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Speaker 2: expect to be you know, that's fine, I don't shoplift

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Speaker 2: scan my face. Yeah, And that's when you've got a

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Speaker 2: friendly government like we do now. That isn't going to

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Speaker 2: use it against you. But what happens when down that

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Speaker 2: you've got to think about down the path, who knows

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Speaker 2: going to be in power in ten or fifteen years,

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Speaker 2: and they suddenly start pinging you.

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Speaker 3: For who you're hanging out with.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they access the data that's been taken in stores

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Speaker 2: and they go, hey, look, you were hanging out with

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Speaker 2: this person, this person is affiliated with this other person.

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Speaker 2: And now next thing you know, you get to knock

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Speaker 2: on your door from the year from the coppers.

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Speaker 4: And you've nailed it. Because I've got no problem with businesses,

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Speaker 4: any businesses using facial recognition software. But what I would

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Speaker 4: tend to worry about if businesses start using a carte

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Speaker 4: blanche is the storing of that information. I don't know

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Speaker 4: if I can trust a supermarket to store that information.

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Speaker 4: And people will be listening and saying, what have you

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Speaker 4: got to worry about, Tyler? If you're not committing a crime,

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Speaker 4: what is there to worry about? But I don't like

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Speaker 4: the fact that that information is held by an organization

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Speaker 4: like New Order pack and say, but will worst, why

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Speaker 4: do they get there of that?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, if you go into their store, then you

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Speaker 2: go into their store. So does it need to be

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Speaker 2: heavily signposted? You are entering into a facial recognition area. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: So if you're hanging out with someone that's going to

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Speaker 2: be flut future governmental agitator, you walk down a different

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Speaker 2: aisle from them.

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Speaker 3: But you know, I mean part of me. Look, I'm

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Speaker 3: gonna be honest with you.

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Speaker 2: I don't care about it, but I can see the argument.

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Speaker 2: I just don't care. Yeah, because I don't shoplift, so

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Speaker 2: I don't care. But I can see the philosophical argument

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Speaker 2: the other other way on it. But what are people

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Speaker 2: supposed to do? Stop stop shoplifting?

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Speaker 4: If there were two supermarkets, so one was using the

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Speaker 4: facial recognition technology and the other one wasn't, would you

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Speaker 4: tend to go towards the one that wasn't. So, by

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Speaker 4: all accounts, everything is the same, The groceries cost the same,

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Speaker 4: same sort of vibe and atmosphere in there. Would that

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Speaker 4: be right? I'm just going to go to the one

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Speaker 4: without facial technology.

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Speaker 3: Am I a shoplifted? No?

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Speaker 2: Because if I was a shoplifter, I'd go to the

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Speaker 2: one without facialift recognition.

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Speaker 4: That would be smart as someone who shoplifts. But so

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Speaker 4: you wouldn't care.

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Speaker 2: No, and this text to here on nine two ninety

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Speaker 2: two doesn't care either. Facial recognition software and supermarkets.

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Speaker 3: Who cares.

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Speaker 2: You have social media sites like Facebook and everyone already

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Speaker 2: knows everything about you, so it's no big deal.

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Speaker 3: Craig.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's really interesting that for the longest

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Speaker 2: time people talked about their privacy and then just at

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Speaker 2: the drop of the hat, put absolutely all of it online.

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Speaker 2: So laid everything out on Instagram and Facebook. Just there

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Speaker 2: you go, there's all my information nowhere, as it's get

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Speaker 2: on with it. I also think it's funny with people's

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Speaker 2: privacy because people do know that they used to put

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Speaker 2: out a book that used to list your name, address,

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Speaker 2: and phone number and used to drop it off at

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Speaker 2: everyone's door.

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Speaker 3: So we haven't had a lot of privacy in the past.

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Speaker 4: But if you're someone who's locked down your social media,

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Speaker 4: Facebook maybe tried to clear it up.

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Speaker 3: That's a fair point right there. Yes, we all.

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Speaker 4: I think a lot of us made mistakes on what

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Speaker 4: we were actually posting on social media. But I would

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Speaker 4: hope most people, you know, you wouldn't put your kids

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Speaker 4: on Facebook, for example, because now you know that that

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Speaker 4: is information that is going to go all you know,

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Speaker 4: that's going to be exposed everywhere on the internet. It

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Speaker 4: never dies, so you're a bit more careful. And when

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Speaker 4: it comes to this facial recognition technology, having that information

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Speaker 4: in the hand of New world I can't trust New Worlds.

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Speaker 4: I mean, it's a fine supermarket and it's a fine organization,

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Speaker 4: but why do they get there have that information?

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Speaker 2: Well, because you went into their store, so you don't

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Speaker 2: have to go in there. You can go shop somewhere else. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: you didn't have to go in there. I guess the

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Speaker 2: question comes of all supermarkets doing it. You don't have

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Speaker 2: an option, but yeah, no, it's it's it's it's a

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Speaker 2: gray area. But can I just say I don't care?

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Speaker 2: And maybe I should, so I'd love to have someone

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Speaker 2: convince me why.

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Speaker 3: I should care. On eight hundred and eighty ten eighty.

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Speaker 4: Yep, it is fifteen quarter past one. Back very shortly.

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Speaker 4: You're listening to Matt and Tyler Good Afternoon, the.

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Speaker 1: Big stories, the big issues, the big trends, and everything

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Speaker 1: in between. Matt Heath and Tyler Adams Afternoons, used talks.

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Speaker 3: It'd be good afternoon.

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Speaker 4: It is seventeen past one and we're talking about facial

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Speaker 4: recognition technology. The Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith is looking into

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Speaker 4: it as we speak. There was a trial done and

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Speaker 4: twenty five supermarkets recently, but he is looking on whether

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Speaker 4: that technology should be able to be rolled out to

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Speaker 4: more businesses in.

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Speaker 2: New Zealand's Yeah, here's a text on nine to nine two.

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Speaker 2: Grow up, Matt, this is New Zealand. What evil government

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Speaker 2: do we need to hide from? We're the least corrupt

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Speaker 2: country in the world. It's hysterical and unhelpful to suggest

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Speaker 2: that police would ever use the data against citizens. Well,

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Speaker 2: I don't know because you you may say that now,

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Speaker 2: but the world's an ever changing place. You don't know

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Speaker 2: what's going to happen. You don't know who's going to

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Speaker 2: be in charge. There's certainly elements of our government right

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Speaker 2: now that are very sure that they're one hundred percent

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Speaker 2: right about something, and the people that disagree with them

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Speaker 2: are apostates that need to be punished.

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Speaker 3: So you don't know, you.

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Speaker 4: And once I've got that information, they've got it for

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Speaker 4: a long long time, whatever government may be in power. Oh,

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Speaker 4: eight hundred eighty ten eighty is the number to call. Lads,

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Speaker 4: do you trust the tech companies that have your pictures

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Speaker 4: when you unlock your phone with your face.

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Speaker 3: I do it, really yeah, but maybe I shouldn't now

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Speaker 3: you mention it.

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Speaker 2: I never thought about that, but I mean, that's and

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Speaker 2: that's what the people that supporters of facial recognition technology

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Speaker 2: are saying. If they scan you and you're not on

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Speaker 2: their people that have stolen from the store before, they

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Speaker 2: immediately delete that skin, so they say they're not keeping that.

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Speaker 2: So you know, if you regulate that that's what the

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Speaker 2: rules are, then as long as you haven't shoplifted, they

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Speaker 2: don't recognize you. And one thing that we've got to

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Speaker 2: remember is we all have facial recognition technology in our brains.

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Speaker 3: Yep, very true. Right now, better than others. Right now.

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Speaker 2: I know that you're Tyler because I work with you

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Speaker 2: every day and I'm walking around facially recognizing people and

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Speaker 2: storing it in in my system right.

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Speaker 3: Now, So yours works pretty good. Yeah, Simon, Simon, your

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Speaker 3: thoughts on this.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I was in Europe and Spain in September, and

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Speaker 5: you go to a supermarket and they issue you with

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Speaker 5: your receipt once you paid for your goods, and at

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Speaker 5: the bottom of the receipt, was a QR code, and

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Speaker 5: that QR code allowed you out through a security.

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Speaker 6: Gate at the end.

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Speaker 5: No QR code, you couldn't get out.

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Speaker 3: Wow.

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Speaker 5: I think what annoysing most about the shop lifting epodemic

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Speaker 5: that we have in New Zealanders that there are people

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Speaker 5: going into our supermarkets. They are loading up trolleys and

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Speaker 5: they're walking out knowing full well that nobody can touch them,

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Speaker 5: will stop them so and in the end as a consumer,

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Speaker 5: that costs us because that supermarket has to mark up

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Speaker 5: more in order to be able to cover those losses.

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Speaker 5: So you know, the technology is there, it doesn't have

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Speaker 5: to be paper recognition. And then that was a relatively

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Speaker 5: inexpensive solution. And we all get issue with a receipt

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Speaker 5: and that receipt simple QR code, an individual one on

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Speaker 5: the bottom of that receipt, and that is your access

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Speaker 5: to get out. I can't understand why our supermarkets aren't

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Speaker 5: entertaining that when it comes.

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Speaker 2: To the facial recognition technology Simon. You know, as you

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Speaker 2: say people are pulling up trolleys and pushing them out,

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Speaker 2: the people in support of the say, well, that person

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Speaker 2: that's done that before gets pained as soon as they

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Speaker 2: go in. So you can go up to them before

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Speaker 2: you have to have the alter altercation at the trolley,

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Speaker 2: before anything happens. You just go up and say get out, mate,

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Speaker 2: because you've robbed from here before. So can you see

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Speaker 2: the logic and that well, so.

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Speaker 5: It's one theory. The reality is that supermarkets are under

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Speaker 5: huge pressure to keep their costs down and the biggest

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Speaker 5: cost they have is their people, and so they minimize

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Speaker 5: a number of people. So at the moment you've got

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Speaker 5: to start putting people instore, more and more security people

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Speaker 5: to these It's it's a mess of cost and I

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Speaker 5: just can't understand why they can't use that simple system

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Speaker 5: of an individual QR code and then you will let.

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Speaker 2: You because because you're not going to be able to

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Speaker 2: walk out. You know what you're saying is you're not

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Speaker 2: about it. You're going to maybe walk out with something small,

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Speaker 2: but you're not going to be able to get an

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Speaker 2: entire trolley out there without your QR code under that suit.

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Speaker 7: Correct.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, they had a full security gate there and you

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Speaker 5: scan your QR code and both it opens, you don't

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Speaker 5: have it, you don't get out.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, just actually seems to make a hell of a

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Speaker 2: lot of sense to me, I wonder why no one's

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Speaker 2: doing that.

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Speaker 4: It does, absolutely, But just a part of it, Simon

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Speaker 4: that I don't like is that it treats everybody like

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Speaker 4: they could be a criminal or a thief. It's like

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Speaker 4: when and it hasn't happened for a long time, but

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Speaker 4: it's happened in the past. When a security guard looks

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Speaker 4: at me and says, can I have a look at

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Speaker 4: your bag before you leave the store? That purses me

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Speaker 4: off because I'm like, excuse me, no, you can't because I'm.

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Speaker 3: Not a thief.

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Speaker 5: So I a law abiding citizen. Heaven you no issue

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Speaker 5: with that at all. That means that I get my

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Speaker 5: groceries at the lowest cost price.

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Speaker 8: Then I'm quite happy to a little there.

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Speaker 5: It just really offends me that people wandering these places

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Speaker 5: pull up a trolley and just take off.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Does that mean that a super market like that, Simon

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Speaker 2: has only one way out?

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Speaker 9: Though?

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Speaker 2: So you can only leave one way? Because what's the

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Speaker 2: situation If you go into the supermarket, you have a

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Speaker 2: look around and go this place is rubbish.

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Speaker 3: I don't want to buy anything. How do you get

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Speaker 3: out there? How do you get out under those circumstances?

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Speaker 5: I don't know what the answer is to that, because

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Speaker 5: I didn't know I was in legitimately buying. But they'll

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Speaker 5: be away. But fundamentally, with a very simple system, very

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Speaker 5: an expensive, very year rolled out, you don't need RF

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Speaker 5: tags and every toiler or everything. It's just a very simple,

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Speaker 5: very workable system and I'd fully support it.

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Speaker 2: Yeahri, thank you so much for you call Simon. So

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Speaker 2: can anyone see any fush ficks in that system? So

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Speaker 2: that's you get a receipt that has a QR code

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Speaker 2: on it and.

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Speaker 3: That's what opens the exit.

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Speaker 2: Well I imagine it doesn't open the door, but it

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Speaker 2: opens the path out with your trolley. And if you

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Speaker 2: don't have it, then you have to talk to someone.

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Speaker 2: And if you talk to someone and it turns up

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Speaker 2: you just filled up the trolley, then they don't open

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Speaker 2: the door.

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Speaker 4: For you would stop shop shoplift, that's for sure.

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Speaker 2: I mean it has to be reasonably robust so people

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Speaker 2: can't get up a head of steam and smash the.

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Speaker 3: Oh eight hundred eighty ten eighty is the number to call.

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Speaker 4: How do you feel about facial technology in private businesses?

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Speaker 4: The Justice Minister is looking at whether it should be

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Speaker 4: rolled out two more businesses.

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Speaker 2: It's an interesting point. Someone text to Through on nineteen nineteen.

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Speaker 2: Can we stop calling it shoplifting and call it theft stealing?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: I mean that is interesting. We call it shoplifting. It's

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Speaker 2: kind of almost a euphemism. It's just you're just.

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Speaker 3: A thief shoplifting.

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Speaker 4: I might do a bit of research into where the

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Speaker 4: origins of the word shoplifting.

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Speaker 2: It's confusing for kids because they think that you're actually

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Speaker 2: lifting up the shop exactly.

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Speaker 4: It is twenty four past one, eight hundred and eighty

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Speaker 4: ten eighty is the number to call Love to hear

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Speaker 4: your thoughts about facial recognition technology back in the boat.

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Speaker 2: apply for a home loan in your slippers not on.

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Speaker 1: Putting the time questions to the newspeakers, the mic asking.

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Speaker 2: Breakfast, the government wants a word with you on the

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Speaker 2: new Sex Said guidelines for schools.

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Speaker 3: The Education Minister Erica Stanford's back for this.

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Speaker 10: We don't have all the answers. Nobody does. But what

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Speaker 10: we've had in the past is a vague curriculum that

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Speaker 10: leads it up to schools who have to go out

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Speaker 10: every two years by law and consult with their communities

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Speaker 10: about what to teach.

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Speaker 3: And when this does take any of the anks out

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Speaker 3: of as well, I.

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Speaker 10: Think there will still be anks, of course, but direct

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Speaker 10: that aks at me, do not direct it at your schools.

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Speaker 10: I'd rather that I take the heat on this than.

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Speaker 11: They have to do that.

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Speaker 10: We want to have this curriculum that tells parents exactly

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Speaker 10: what will be taught. The words that will be used

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Speaker 10: so they can make an informed choice about.

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Speaker 3: What tis I am? The mic asking Breakfast with Baby's

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Speaker 3: Real Estate News Talk ZV.

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Speaker 4: It's twenty eight past one. We're talking about facial recognition technology.

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Speaker 4: The Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith is looking at whether that

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Speaker 4: can be rolled out to more businesses within New Zealand

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Speaker 4: after a trial at supermarkets. Keen on your thoughts, oh

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Speaker 4: eight hundred and eighty ten eighty.

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Speaker 3: And it's our old friend Morris. Welcome to show your

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Speaker 3: thoughts on this.

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Speaker 12: Oh. Look, it's a waste of time. It's very easy

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Speaker 12: to beat those systems and it's not going to get

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Speaker 12: the criminals. If you're a criminal, you want to go

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Speaker 12: and steal a whole lot of stuff, what do you

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Speaker 12: put a mask on, put a for a sunglass and

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Speaker 12: put on point your face to the ground and it

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Speaker 12: doesn't work and so it's not going to stop it.

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Speaker 12: And so what happens is that you might stop one

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Speaker 12: or two, but you won't stop the majority. And then

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Speaker 12: what happens where do they have an art to go?

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Speaker 12: And what it is is that it was in Australia

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Speaker 12: they were taking photo recognition people walking in the street

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Speaker 12: where you're shopping, and they had this whole network in

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Speaker 12: Melbourne and then it got send off the companies and

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Speaker 12: they start advertising to you all and all of a

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Speaker 12: sudden on your Facebook page and all your digital stuff

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Speaker 12: all pops up, and they're trying to sell your stuff

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Speaker 12: and not a revene generating thing in the supermarkes and

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Speaker 12: then make more money out of it. And you know

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Speaker 12: people are happy with that, then let them.

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Speaker 3: Do it well.

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Speaker 2: Retail New Zealand chief executive Karen Young says that that's

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Speaker 2: not how it works. It says, it's basically what happens

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Speaker 2: is you go into the store. You've got CCTV to

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Speaker 2: keep an eye on what's happening in the store. What

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Speaker 2: the FRT camera does is tell you who's in the

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Speaker 2: store and rot risk that person is to staff and consumers.

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Speaker 2: There's another tool to help prevent crime and violent behavior

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Speaker 2: in the store. And the key thing really is we

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Speaker 2: want the staff who work there in the retail area

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Speaker 2: to be safe. So you've got to support that, don't you.

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Speaker 3: Morris.

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Speaker 2: If that someone that's gone into the store before and

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Speaker 2: assaulted people or stolen stuff, and there's a way that

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Speaker 2: they can be loaded into the system, they turn up

439
00:20:07,133 --> 00:20:09,373
Speaker 2: ping you get them.

440
00:20:09,653 --> 00:20:11,133
Speaker 3: I mean, and I know what you're saying.

441
00:20:11,133 --> 00:20:14,013
Speaker 2: This is that you know, you could put a you know,

442
00:20:14,053 --> 00:20:18,173
Speaker 2: a fake bed on and and whatever outfit. But I

443
00:20:18,173 --> 00:20:19,813
Speaker 2: don't think a lot of these people that are violent

444
00:20:19,853 --> 00:20:23,773
Speaker 2: and problematic, that's sophisticated. They're just wandering in and causing problems.

445
00:20:24,533 --> 00:20:26,813
Speaker 12: Oh yeah, but and you put it into context, this

446
00:20:26,853 --> 00:20:29,773
Speaker 12: won't stop it. And if they want something, they're going

447
00:20:29,813 --> 00:20:31,253
Speaker 12: to go and get it. And then the thing is

448
00:20:31,573 --> 00:20:33,253
Speaker 12: you just said they're going to see you to stop climb.

449
00:20:33,493 --> 00:20:36,013
Speaker 12: So when the lunatic who's actually caused all the problem

450
00:20:36,133 --> 00:20:38,173
Speaker 12: is actually in the supermarket, because we've got to post

451
00:20:38,173 --> 00:20:39,973
Speaker 12: and say he's in't here, then how do they get

452
00:20:40,013 --> 00:20:42,373
Speaker 12: them to leave without a scuffle. It's not going to

453
00:20:42,413 --> 00:20:46,533
Speaker 12: protect anyone. It's just the supermarkets don't fix prices, that

454
00:20:46,693 --> 00:20:48,853
Speaker 12: don't screw their supplies and they don't do.

455
00:20:48,853 --> 00:20:49,173
Speaker 13: Any of that.

456
00:20:49,533 --> 00:20:52,773
Speaker 12: And all we're very honest. There's a woman supporting those

457
00:20:52,773 --> 00:20:55,133
Speaker 12: people who are the most dishonest people out who make

458
00:20:55,253 --> 00:20:57,893
Speaker 12: millions of police poverty. And now you say I want

459
00:20:57,893 --> 00:21:00,013
Speaker 12: to leave what they say it's sort of like voting

460
00:21:00,053 --> 00:21:00,653
Speaker 12: for the Greens.

461
00:21:04,853 --> 00:21:07,053
Speaker 4: Yeah, you got on a roll there, Morris, but just

462
00:21:07,093 --> 00:21:09,333
Speaker 4: on the marketing side of things. That's why, that's why

463
00:21:09,373 --> 00:21:12,173
Speaker 4: it's been considered quite carefully, and that's why if they

464
00:21:12,173 --> 00:21:14,613
Speaker 4: implement this technology that it can be rolled out to

465
00:21:14,693 --> 00:21:17,893
Speaker 4: more private businesses carte blanche, that you've got to have

466
00:21:18,133 --> 00:21:20,293
Speaker 4: those rules in place and those laws in place that

467
00:21:20,333 --> 00:21:23,013
Speaker 4: if they do use it your image for some sort

468
00:21:23,013 --> 00:21:26,133
Speaker 4: of marketing gimmit, then they get stuck very heavily. There's

469
00:21:26,133 --> 00:21:27,973
Speaker 4: got to be massive finds for there, because I'm sure

470
00:21:28,013 --> 00:21:29,213
Speaker 4: most of us wouldn't be into that.

471
00:21:30,573 --> 00:21:31,853
Speaker 12: No one would be. But the thing is is that

472
00:21:31,893 --> 00:21:33,773
Speaker 12: then how do you approve it? It takes time and

473
00:21:33,853 --> 00:21:36,053
Speaker 12: sometimes I've made more money than what the fines are

474
00:21:36,213 --> 00:21:38,973
Speaker 12: and reality is right. She says, it's to protect the staff,

475
00:21:38,973 --> 00:21:43,013
Speaker 12: which I'm a pro for that fair enough, but it

476
00:21:43,053 --> 00:21:46,213
Speaker 12: won't get the person before he goes in. And if

477
00:21:46,693 --> 00:21:49,653
Speaker 12: that's the case and he's already in there, how does

478
00:21:49,653 --> 00:21:53,613
Speaker 12: it protect them? Because you know, you and so do

479
00:21:53,653 --> 00:21:55,573
Speaker 12: we all line up and get a facial recognition then

480
00:21:55,693 --> 00:21:58,773
Speaker 12: go in and keep all the lunisics out, you know,

481
00:21:58,973 --> 00:22:02,133
Speaker 12: and you know where does it work? It's not going

482
00:22:02,213 --> 00:22:03,893
Speaker 12: to be perfect and it's not going to be thing,

483
00:22:04,333 --> 00:22:06,133
Speaker 12: and all you're going to do is put a whole

484
00:22:06,173 --> 00:22:08,493
Speaker 12: lot of people's personal data, and then what happens these

485
00:22:08,533 --> 00:22:10,733
Speaker 12: systems get hacked them all the sort of counter I.

486
00:22:10,733 --> 00:22:12,853
Speaker 2: Mean, that's that's a concern, the system being hacked if

487
00:22:12,853 --> 00:22:16,613
Speaker 2: they're storing information right now, and this kind of system

488
00:22:16,653 --> 00:22:19,893
Speaker 2: that's talking about just storing the faces of the people

489
00:22:20,173 --> 00:22:23,533
Speaker 2: that they have that they they're targeting as having offended

490
00:22:23,533 --> 00:22:25,293
Speaker 2: in the store before. So when a person comes into

491
00:22:25,293 --> 00:22:27,813
Speaker 2: the store, you can stop them and say, hey, you

492
00:22:27,893 --> 00:22:31,093
Speaker 2: know you're not meant to be in here. You you

493
00:22:31,173 --> 00:22:34,973
Speaker 2: know we've trespassed you, and you can leave now. And

494
00:22:35,013 --> 00:22:37,293
Speaker 2: so you're so you're going up and pointing your finger

495
00:22:37,333 --> 00:22:39,853
Speaker 2: in their face and saying get out now, rather than

496
00:22:39,933 --> 00:22:42,053
Speaker 2: later on when they've got a whole handful of stuff

497
00:22:42,053 --> 00:22:43,613
Speaker 2: and they're trying to bum rush the door.

498
00:22:43,693 --> 00:22:45,573
Speaker 4: Yeah, which makes a lot of sense. So eight hundred

499
00:22:45,773 --> 00:22:47,293
Speaker 4: eighty ten eighty is a number to call.

500
00:22:47,453 --> 00:22:50,613
Speaker 2: Thanks for you, Carl, though Morris appreciate your contrary opinion.

501
00:22:50,653 --> 00:22:53,773
Speaker 4: It's fantastic headlines with railing coming up. Then we'll take

502
00:22:53,813 --> 00:22:55,933
Speaker 4: more of your phone calls on our eight hundred eighty

503
00:22:56,133 --> 00:22:59,813
Speaker 4: ten eighty. It is twenty eight to two.

504
00:23:01,373 --> 00:23:05,093
Speaker 13: You talk said the headlines with a blue bubble taxis

505
00:23:05,213 --> 00:23:08,253
Speaker 13: it's no trouble with a blue bubble stat Scene said.

506
00:23:08,413 --> 00:23:12,173
Speaker 13: Figures show the continued pain at the supermarket, with food

507
00:23:12,213 --> 00:23:15,733
Speaker 13: price inflation reaching three point five percent. That's up from

508
00:23:15,773 --> 00:23:19,013
Speaker 13: two point four a month ago. Butter, milk, meat and

509
00:23:19,093 --> 00:23:23,413
Speaker 13: grocery have all risen annually, fruit and vege dipped slightly.

510
00:23:24,253 --> 00:23:27,253
Speaker 13: The Ministers of Justice and Police say the government surpassed

511
00:23:27,253 --> 00:23:31,373
Speaker 13: its violent crime reduction target. Latest figures report one hundred

512
00:23:31,373 --> 00:23:34,453
Speaker 13: and fifty seven thousand victims in the year to February,

513
00:23:34,853 --> 00:23:37,613
Speaker 13: a drop of twenty eight thousand from the twenty twenty

514
00:23:37,693 --> 00:23:42,053
Speaker 13: three baseline. The Education Minister says school property will also

515
00:23:42,213 --> 00:23:45,773
Speaker 13: get a boost in Canterbury following news one hundred million

516
00:23:45,813 --> 00:23:48,813
Speaker 13: dollars is going into a new school and other classrooms.

517
00:23:48,813 --> 00:23:53,013
Speaker 13: In Auckland. The government's cranking down on owners tying up

518
00:23:53,133 --> 00:23:56,933
Speaker 13: dogs for long periods are crackdowns expected to become law

519
00:23:56,973 --> 00:24:00,293
Speaker 13: by the end of the year. Heavy rain and wind

520
00:24:00,533 --> 00:24:03,613
Speaker 13: set to descend on the Upper North Island, starting in

521
00:24:03,693 --> 00:24:06,973
Speaker 13: the Far North early tomorrow and moving to Auckland, Great

522
00:24:07,053 --> 00:24:12,893
Speaker 13: Barrier and Corimandel early Thursday. Trump's tariffs. Three possible scenarios

523
00:24:13,093 --> 00:24:16,373
Speaker 13: facing New Zealand. Find out more at Ens and Herald Premium.

524
00:24:16,413 --> 00:24:18,293
Speaker 13: Now back to matt Ethan Tyler Adams.

525
00:24:18,333 --> 00:24:20,733
Speaker 4: Thank you very much, Rayllan, and we're talking about facial

526
00:24:21,013 --> 00:24:26,532
Speaker 4: recognition technology. The Justice Minister is currently considering whether the

527
00:24:26,613 --> 00:24:30,093
Speaker 4: law needs to be changed to allow businesses to utilize

528
00:24:30,093 --> 00:24:33,213
Speaker 4: that technology in greater numbers. There was a trial in

529
00:24:33,253 --> 00:24:35,973
Speaker 4: twenty five New World and pack and safe stores recently

530
00:24:36,493 --> 00:24:40,973
Speaker 4: and though that organization estimated it helped prevent one hundred

531
00:24:41,093 --> 00:24:43,133
Speaker 4: serious events during that trial.

532
00:24:43,213 --> 00:24:45,253
Speaker 2: Yeah, but some people, such as the New Zealand Council

533
00:24:45,293 --> 00:24:48,813
Speaker 2: for Civil Liberty, says such sensitive information should not be

534
00:24:48,853 --> 00:24:52,173
Speaker 2: collected without consent. It feels like a slippery slope to

535
00:24:52,333 --> 00:24:55,373
Speaker 2: powerful surveillance data systems with the history of people's whereabouts

536
00:24:55,533 --> 00:24:57,653
Speaker 2: that police can access without a warrant in a similar

537
00:24:57,693 --> 00:25:01,773
Speaker 2: way to how police use number plate recognition systems. But

538
00:25:01,853 --> 00:25:05,853
Speaker 2: as someone says, if you go into the retailer, then

539
00:25:05,893 --> 00:25:08,853
Speaker 2: you're kind of consenting to it. If there was a

540
00:25:08,853 --> 00:25:11,213
Speaker 2: as you said before, Tyler, if there was two supermarkets

541
00:25:11,213 --> 00:25:13,493
Speaker 2: to rapside each other and one said we use facial

542
00:25:13,533 --> 00:25:17,853
Speaker 2: recognition technology and one didn't. If you were in a shoplifter,

543
00:25:17,933 --> 00:25:20,253
Speaker 2: would you care which one you went into. You might

544
00:25:20,293 --> 00:25:24,933
Speaker 2: prefer the one with facial technology because it is identifying

545
00:25:25,613 --> 00:25:28,453
Speaker 2: people that have been violent in the past in the store. Yeah,

546
00:25:28,533 --> 00:25:30,733
Speaker 2: so you know you're less likely. Other people have no

547
00:25:31,653 --> 00:25:34,013
Speaker 2: privacy concerns and wanted to go further, such as Philip.

548
00:25:34,733 --> 00:25:36,973
Speaker 2: I'd rather everyone got chipped so the shop can scan

549
00:25:37,053 --> 00:25:40,373
Speaker 2: you when you come through the door. So you just

550
00:25:40,493 --> 00:25:43,773
Speaker 2: go the full hog so you prove you're a good person. Yeah,

551
00:25:43,813 --> 00:25:46,133
Speaker 2: and you get chipped. Could would have killed nzid me

552
00:25:46,253 --> 00:25:46,773
Speaker 2: to chip me.

553
00:25:47,653 --> 00:25:49,013
Speaker 3: I like to get chipped so I don't have to

554
00:25:49,173 --> 00:25:51,173
Speaker 3: remember my swipe past every day. So I could just

555
00:25:51,173 --> 00:25:53,053
Speaker 3: walk through my computer turns on for me.

556
00:25:53,373 --> 00:25:55,453
Speaker 4: To get into the my Costing Memorial studio. I mean

557
00:25:55,493 --> 00:25:57,173
Speaker 4: there's a lot of doors you've got to get through.

558
00:25:57,213 --> 00:25:59,173
Speaker 3: There's a lot of security to my Costing.

559
00:25:59,293 --> 00:26:01,813
Speaker 4: Yeah, but you do look like when you've got that

560
00:26:01,853 --> 00:26:04,173
Speaker 4: we land yard, it's almost like you work for the

561
00:26:04,213 --> 00:26:05,093
Speaker 4: CIA or something.

562
00:26:05,133 --> 00:26:06,453
Speaker 3: It is. It looks very official.

563
00:26:06,493 --> 00:26:12,173
Speaker 2: I feel like I worked for the Shield the Avengers. Dennis.

564
00:26:12,373 --> 00:26:15,533
Speaker 2: Your thoughts on the facial recognition technology.

565
00:26:16,613 --> 00:26:21,813
Speaker 11: Hey, Look, facial recognition technology has advanced considerably in the

566
00:26:21,853 --> 00:26:26,933
Speaker 11: last few years. What I want to know is how

567
00:26:27,213 --> 00:26:32,133
Speaker 11: if we give the supermarkets as power, how far we're

568
00:26:32,173 --> 00:26:36,493
Speaker 11: going to allow the creep to occur. Because at this stage,

569
00:26:37,093 --> 00:26:41,693
Speaker 11: facial recognition cameras can pick up a pyper, clothes you're wearing,

570
00:26:42,333 --> 00:26:50,453
Speaker 11: your nationality. They can definitely every time you walk past

571
00:26:50,533 --> 00:26:54,773
Speaker 11: a camera which has it, more information is put into

572
00:26:54,853 --> 00:26:58,613
Speaker 11: the camera about the person, so it builds it up.

573
00:26:59,933 --> 00:27:02,413
Speaker 11: Would you feel comfortable, for instance, to please be able

574
00:27:02,453 --> 00:27:07,093
Speaker 11: to use facial recognition photos on your license and then

575
00:27:07,373 --> 00:27:09,773
Speaker 11: take a photo of your put into a machine when

576
00:27:09,773 --> 00:27:13,253
Speaker 11: they pull you up to identify you, because we basically

577
00:27:13,333 --> 00:27:17,853
Speaker 11: have that technology with customs now when it comes to passports. Yeah,

578
00:27:18,853 --> 00:27:22,853
Speaker 11: and uh, what would you feel as for instance, a shop,

579
00:27:23,253 --> 00:27:28,573
Speaker 11: say Farmers or someone like that, had facial recognition technology

580
00:27:29,093 --> 00:27:31,773
Speaker 11: and they followed you around the shop. Because these cameras

581
00:27:31,813 --> 00:27:34,693
Speaker 11: can follow you around the shop. Now, this technology is

582
00:27:34,733 --> 00:27:39,573
Speaker 11: definitely available and noted the type of product you looked at,

583
00:27:40,013 --> 00:27:41,733
Speaker 11: and so when you walked in the door, they could

584
00:27:41,813 --> 00:27:46,053
Speaker 11: change the advert on the TV screen to show you

585
00:27:46,173 --> 00:27:49,413
Speaker 11: products that they know you have looked at before.

586
00:27:49,573 --> 00:27:52,493
Speaker 2: It might last time, last time you were here, you

587
00:27:52,573 --> 00:27:54,773
Speaker 2: got this cheese, you've forgotten it and you're trolley that

588
00:27:54,853 --> 00:27:56,893
Speaker 2: kind of thing very minority, I mean, I mean that

589
00:27:56,973 --> 00:28:00,293
Speaker 2: is that is definitely possible. So would you would you

590
00:28:00,373 --> 00:28:03,373
Speaker 2: support would you it was definitely possible now, but would

591
00:28:03,373 --> 00:28:08,532
Speaker 2: you support restrictions on it then? So supermarkets or or

592
00:28:08,533 --> 00:28:13,973
Speaker 2: whatever stores can only recognize well only paying people who

593
00:28:14,013 --> 00:28:17,453
Speaker 2: have put in their database because they've offended before. Would

594
00:28:17,453 --> 00:28:21,133
Speaker 2: you and have that heavyly register, you know, and severe

595
00:28:21,253 --> 00:28:23,893
Speaker 2: fines if they're court breaching those kind of you know,

596
00:28:24,013 --> 00:28:26,133
Speaker 2: privacy rules.

597
00:28:26,453 --> 00:28:30,253
Speaker 11: Well, at the moment, we know the police on the

598
00:28:30,373 --> 00:28:35,293
Speaker 11: lpr's lightst plate recognition cameras have breached it. They breached

599
00:28:35,333 --> 00:28:39,533
Speaker 11: it for those two women during COVID going up north.

600
00:28:39,933 --> 00:28:43,773
Speaker 11: They actually did some information and they told a FIB

601
00:28:44,173 --> 00:28:47,173
Speaker 11: that it was involved with a crime or something and

602
00:28:47,653 --> 00:28:53,893
Speaker 11: it wasn't, and they packed. They're vehicles using private companies

603
00:28:53,893 --> 00:28:58,373
Speaker 11: who own that information. Now that concerns me that private

604
00:28:58,373 --> 00:29:03,493
Speaker 11: companies are allowed to own that information. Should we allow it?

605
00:29:03,653 --> 00:29:10,213
Speaker 11: For instance, on open transport trains, there's lots of people

606
00:29:10,213 --> 00:29:13,693
Speaker 11: who have problems there, so they actually have it. Brings

607
00:29:13,773 --> 00:29:14,493
Speaker 11: up that.

608
00:29:14,333 --> 00:29:16,173
Speaker 3: Would you have it? Would you have a problem with that?

609
00:29:16,333 --> 00:29:18,973
Speaker 2: If there's someone that's assaulted someone on a train before

610
00:29:19,653 --> 00:29:21,453
Speaker 2: that when they go on the train, it goes bleep.

611
00:29:21,493 --> 00:29:23,733
Speaker 2: You're not coming on that. Do you see that as

612
00:29:23,733 --> 00:29:24,213
Speaker 2: a problem.

613
00:29:25,613 --> 00:29:31,253
Speaker 11: I see misidentification of people sometimes as having a problem.

614
00:29:31,333 --> 00:29:34,173
Speaker 2: Yes, I mean the supermarkets are saying now that when

615
00:29:34,213 --> 00:29:35,733
Speaker 2: it when it pops up, just to go back the

616
00:29:35,773 --> 00:29:40,533
Speaker 2: supermarket and hardware store example, as it pops up as

617
00:29:40,533 --> 00:29:42,733
Speaker 2: someone's been flagged because they're in the system, and then

618
00:29:42,773 --> 00:29:44,773
Speaker 2: they have a human look at it before they go

619
00:29:44,813 --> 00:29:47,293
Speaker 2: and confront the person. So it does also have a

620
00:29:47,413 --> 00:29:49,453
Speaker 2: human brain going going across it.

621
00:29:50,693 --> 00:29:53,693
Speaker 11: Well, what would you think, for instance, if the niche

622
00:29:53,813 --> 00:29:57,333
Speaker 11: group was that they put all the faces of legal

623
00:29:57,333 --> 00:30:02,093
Speaker 11: immigrants into the grocery stores database and when they went

624
00:30:02,173 --> 00:30:05,373
Speaker 11: in there went beep beep and the cops were called immediately.

625
00:30:05,573 --> 00:30:07,493
Speaker 2: Well, I mean when that that's a that's a long

626
00:30:07,533 --> 00:30:09,613
Speaker 2: way down the track. So you're really saying that once

627
00:30:09,653 --> 00:30:11,653
Speaker 2: this is in as a slippery slope, and then there's

628
00:30:11,933 --> 00:30:17,013
Speaker 2: another another privacy encroachment, privacy encroachment, and then then there's

629
00:30:17,173 --> 00:30:19,693
Speaker 2: law enforcement done in this way. Is that what you're

630
00:30:19,693 --> 00:30:22,173
Speaker 2: concerned about, because this isn't what they're suggesting now, with

631
00:30:22,213 --> 00:30:26,893
Speaker 2: this facial recognition technology they're they're suggesting it's restricted just

632
00:30:27,013 --> 00:30:29,253
Speaker 2: to pinging people that have offended in the store before,

633
00:30:29,933 --> 00:30:31,213
Speaker 2: But you're worried where it would go.

634
00:30:32,293 --> 00:30:37,533
Speaker 11: I remember not long ago seeing a promotional film from

635
00:30:37,693 --> 00:30:41,213
Speaker 11: China which actually said all these things can happen.

636
00:30:41,573 --> 00:30:43,893
Speaker 2: Yeah, well they've got they're running their social credit scores

637
00:30:43,893 --> 00:30:45,613
Speaker 2: over there, which are pretty pretty terrifying.

638
00:30:47,013 --> 00:30:51,333
Speaker 11: And what I'm saying is here, it's very very easy

639
00:30:51,373 --> 00:30:53,253
Speaker 11: for us to say, hey, that'd be good, that would

640
00:30:53,293 --> 00:30:56,293
Speaker 11: solve a problem. But sometimes when you solve problems like that,

641
00:30:56,453 --> 00:30:58,093
Speaker 11: you actually create much bigger ones.

642
00:30:58,213 --> 00:31:00,533
Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you so much for your calling. Jennis, Oh,

643
00:31:00,573 --> 00:31:03,373
Speaker 3: one hundred and eighty ten eighty is the number to call.

644
00:31:05,333 --> 00:31:07,213
Speaker 2: Can you imagine a situation right where you've got a

645
00:31:07,213 --> 00:31:10,413
Speaker 2: police officer walking down street and they have some facial

646
00:31:10,533 --> 00:31:14,133
Speaker 2: recognition camera on their head and as it's looking around,

647
00:31:14,173 --> 00:31:18,013
Speaker 2: maybe they've got their glasses facial recogniment glasses, and it's

648
00:31:18,053 --> 00:31:21,133
Speaker 2: pinging around and it recognizes faces, and there's little arrows

649
00:31:21,173 --> 00:31:23,933
Speaker 2: pointing to the different crimes that people have. Tyler's walking

650
00:31:23,973 --> 00:31:25,613
Speaker 2: past and be like ping ping ping, ping, ping, ping

651
00:31:25,693 --> 00:31:28,333
Speaker 2: ping ping, all the horrific crimes that you commit and

652
00:31:28,893 --> 00:31:33,493
Speaker 2: then they grab you, or they are you know, or

653
00:31:33,533 --> 00:31:34,093
Speaker 2: they follow you.

654
00:31:35,013 --> 00:31:35,933
Speaker 3: How would you feel about that?

655
00:31:36,533 --> 00:31:38,493
Speaker 4: It's get pretty close to nineteen eighty four, isn't it.

656
00:31:38,573 --> 00:31:38,773
Speaker 11: Really?

657
00:31:39,053 --> 00:31:40,973
Speaker 2: If I walk past, they'd be like clean as a whistle.

658
00:31:41,013 --> 00:31:43,493
Speaker 2: But if someone like you walks past, they basically have

659
00:31:43,613 --> 00:31:44,573
Speaker 2: to tasy you immediately.

660
00:31:44,733 --> 00:31:47,213
Speaker 4: Well, unless we're talking thought crimes here, and you're definitely

661
00:31:47,333 --> 00:31:48,653
Speaker 4: guilty of a lot of thought crimes.

662
00:31:48,693 --> 00:31:51,733
Speaker 2: But I mean, I mean, that's really what Dennis is saying,

663
00:31:51,853 --> 00:31:55,173
Speaker 2: is the technology is there for it to go that far,

664
00:31:56,493 --> 00:31:59,213
Speaker 2: and it's unfair though, I believe, to say to the supermarkets,

665
00:31:59,253 --> 00:32:01,733
Speaker 2: you can't use this technology when you're constantly being ripped

666
00:32:01,773 --> 00:32:06,053
Speaker 2: off just because of all the possibilities down down the road.

667
00:32:06,133 --> 00:32:08,813
Speaker 2: Because you could say that about cars, you could go, well,

668
00:32:08,933 --> 00:32:11,973
Speaker 2: don't drive cars because some people could drive them down

669
00:32:12,093 --> 00:32:14,973
Speaker 2: their pavement and kill a lot of people. Yeah, you know,

670
00:32:15,053 --> 00:32:17,493
Speaker 2: it's just because there's the technology has the potential to

671
00:32:17,613 --> 00:32:20,613
Speaker 2: harm people doesn't mean that you should not put your

672
00:32:20,733 --> 00:32:22,173
Speaker 2: dip your toe in the water of the technology.

673
00:32:22,213 --> 00:32:23,173
Speaker 3: If you see what I'm saying, is.

674
00:32:23,173 --> 00:32:25,573
Speaker 4: It that much different to CCTV. I mean, to me,

675
00:32:25,693 --> 00:32:28,373
Speaker 4: it just means that CCTV is a bit more efficient

676
00:32:29,693 --> 00:32:30,973
Speaker 4: as you you're.

677
00:32:30,813 --> 00:32:34,533
Speaker 2: Going to have someone watching CCDV for fligging through a

678
00:32:34,613 --> 00:32:38,773
Speaker 2: bunch of pictures of people and using our our software

679
00:32:38,973 --> 00:32:43,213
Speaker 2: literally soft and that our brain to recognize people exactly.

680
00:32:43,453 --> 00:32:45,853
Speaker 4: Oh, eight hundred ac ten eighty is the number to call.

681
00:32:45,893 --> 00:32:47,373
Speaker 4: It is a quarter to two.

682
00:32:48,533 --> 00:32:51,613
Speaker 1: It's a fresh take on talk back. It's Matt Heathen,

683
00:32:51,693 --> 00:32:55,453
Speaker 1: Taylor Adams afternoons. Have your say on eight hundred eighty

684
00:32:55,573 --> 00:32:56,733
Speaker 1: ten eighty talk.

685
00:32:58,853 --> 00:33:03,133
Speaker 2: We are talking about facial recognition technology and supermarkets and

686
00:33:03,173 --> 00:33:06,293
Speaker 2: hardware stores and such. Everyone's concerned so far is about

687
00:33:06,333 --> 00:33:09,493
Speaker 2: privacy laws, says Anthony. We just strong laws around the

688
00:33:09,533 --> 00:33:11,853
Speaker 2: storage and usage of private data. If we have those

689
00:33:11,893 --> 00:33:13,813
Speaker 2: in place, more than happy for us to become a

690
00:33:13,893 --> 00:33:16,573
Speaker 2: surveillance state if that means a criminal can get tracked

691
00:33:16,613 --> 00:33:18,373
Speaker 2: all the way from the cream.

692
00:33:18,133 --> 00:33:21,693
Speaker 3: Of the cream of this the scene of the crime,

693
00:33:21,773 --> 00:33:23,573
Speaker 3: the cream of the cream of the crop of the crime.

694
00:33:24,653 --> 00:33:28,493
Speaker 2: That's not Anthony wrote, from the crime scene to their home.

695
00:33:29,773 --> 00:33:30,053
Speaker 3: Side.

696
00:33:30,093 --> 00:33:34,133
Speaker 2: Civil libertarians bring it in, make it safer, says John.

697
00:33:34,333 --> 00:33:35,293
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, there you go.

698
00:33:35,613 --> 00:33:40,733
Speaker 2: So Mike, welcome the show. Your thoughts on recognition tech?

699
00:33:42,133 --> 00:33:46,253
Speaker 9: Yeah, Hi, back in twenty nineteen, I was in between

700
00:33:46,333 --> 00:33:49,533
Speaker 9: jobs and a friend of mine was a breck and

701
00:33:49,573 --> 00:33:52,773
Speaker 9: block layer over the Gold Coast and he said, I

702
00:33:52,853 --> 00:33:54,453
Speaker 9: need a labor for a month. You want to come over?

703
00:33:54,733 --> 00:33:57,173
Speaker 9: Oh yeah, sure, no worries, but of a working holiday.

704
00:33:57,213 --> 00:34:02,173
Speaker 9: So I went over there and up in Brisbane where

705
00:34:02,173 --> 00:34:05,813
Speaker 9: we had some work. On one night, Friday or Saturday night,

706
00:34:05,813 --> 00:34:08,213
Speaker 9: we went out and they've got a big night clubs

707
00:34:08,413 --> 00:34:11,893
Speaker 9: drop up there along road full of bars and nightclubs,

708
00:34:12,013 --> 00:34:15,692
Speaker 9: and you actually have to stand at the front door.

709
00:34:16,333 --> 00:34:18,093
Speaker 9: As you queue up and get to the front door,

710
00:34:18,653 --> 00:34:21,733
Speaker 9: they photograph you with the machine and then they photograph

711
00:34:21,813 --> 00:34:25,732
Speaker 9: your the driver's license and that information, that data goes

712
00:34:25,773 --> 00:34:28,653
Speaker 9: out to every single bar and nightclub in the whole city.

713
00:34:30,173 --> 00:34:32,813
Speaker 9: So if you play out, if you play up, and

714
00:34:33,333 --> 00:34:37,333
Speaker 9: if you're kicked out or cause trouble, not only are

715
00:34:37,373 --> 00:34:40,333
Speaker 9: you removed from the nightclub you're at, you can't get

716
00:34:40,453 --> 00:34:43,293
Speaker 9: into any other that night. And I don't know how

717
00:34:43,333 --> 00:34:46,373
Speaker 9: long the band lasts, but no one complains about it.

718
00:34:46,453 --> 00:34:49,173
Speaker 9: Everyone's happy, and everyone's feel everyone feels safe.

719
00:34:49,373 --> 00:34:52,653
Speaker 2: And that is that all nightclubs or just nightclubs that

720
00:34:52,773 --> 00:34:53,973
Speaker 2: belong to the same company.

721
00:34:55,253 --> 00:34:57,053
Speaker 9: No, no, that's every single one of them. I don't

722
00:34:57,053 --> 00:35:00,373
Speaker 9: know if it's a something by law, but they all

723
00:35:00,453 --> 00:35:02,813
Speaker 9: do it and everyone feels really safe.

724
00:35:03,133 --> 00:35:03,813
Speaker 14: And what's what?

725
00:35:03,973 --> 00:35:06,533
Speaker 2: What what do they look for if you're intoxicated? Does

726
00:35:06,573 --> 00:35:09,853
Speaker 2: that Does that justify sending it out to everyone? If

727
00:35:09,853 --> 00:35:11,453
Speaker 2: you deemed to be intoxicated by the bouncer?

728
00:35:11,613 --> 00:35:13,853
Speaker 9: Oh? Yeah, yeah, I'm sure it would. I mean, no

729
00:35:13,973 --> 00:35:17,933
Speaker 9: other bar wants to serve drinks to inebriated person, so

730
00:35:18,173 --> 00:35:20,453
Speaker 9: to cover it, they want fine, they don't want fines

731
00:35:20,493 --> 00:35:22,973
Speaker 9: and stuff. So there you go, you're off, you're gone.

732
00:35:23,093 --> 00:35:27,013
Speaker 9: So yeah, So, not only does it protect the customers,

733
00:35:28,053 --> 00:35:32,013
Speaker 9: it protects the intoxicated individual from getting even more drunk,

734
00:35:32,453 --> 00:35:35,133
Speaker 9: and then protects the businesses from serving and getting fined

735
00:35:35,173 --> 00:35:37,692
Speaker 9: for serving drinks. So it's good. But just the other

736
00:35:37,733 --> 00:35:41,133
Speaker 9: thing I want to mention is because I was I

737
00:35:41,293 --> 00:35:45,973
Speaker 9: was a bricklayers laborer. I spent an entire month loading

738
00:35:46,053 --> 00:35:48,533
Speaker 9: a concrete mixer all day, and we would start at

739
00:35:48,573 --> 00:35:51,453
Speaker 9: sex and finish at two to beat the heat. So

740
00:35:51,533 --> 00:35:53,813
Speaker 9: we'd finished yearly. Started to finished early and it was

741
00:35:53,893 --> 00:35:57,573
Speaker 9: thirty five degree heat. I've never consumed so much water

742
00:35:58,333 --> 00:36:02,893
Speaker 9: per day in my entire life. And in the sun,

743
00:36:03,093 --> 00:36:06,212
Speaker 9: and you know, you load. I was loading up three

744
00:36:06,373 --> 00:36:10,613
Speaker 9: bricklayers on three level scaffolding, and you know, and they're

745
00:36:10,613 --> 00:36:13,413
Speaker 9: crying out, mad, mad more Matt, and you've got to

746
00:36:13,453 --> 00:36:17,333
Speaker 9: load up three levels of why shovel three levels of scaffolding?

747
00:36:17,533 --> 00:36:19,373
Speaker 9: And I did that for a whole month. And when

748
00:36:19,413 --> 00:36:21,813
Speaker 9: I got when I first got there, I was unfit

749
00:36:22,173 --> 00:36:26,573
Speaker 9: and overweight. And when I left, I went through. I

750
00:36:26,653 --> 00:36:31,533
Speaker 9: went to leave through the Gold Coasts where was calling

751
00:36:32,013 --> 00:36:36,533
Speaker 9: forget the airport, and Customs actually pulled me aside.

752
00:36:36,693 --> 00:36:38,773
Speaker 3: I didn't recognize you because you were different size.

753
00:36:39,813 --> 00:36:42,053
Speaker 9: I was different. Yeah, I was handed, I was lean,

754
00:36:42,413 --> 00:36:46,413
Speaker 9: I was strong, and so base your recognition technology, you

755
00:36:46,453 --> 00:36:48,772
Speaker 9: would think that Customs has the very best of the best.

756
00:36:48,893 --> 00:36:51,413
Speaker 9: But they pulled me aside and said, well is this

757
00:36:51,573 --> 00:36:53,613
Speaker 9: you and can you please prove this please?

758
00:36:53,733 --> 00:36:56,213
Speaker 3: And you said oh yeah, he said why, I thank you.

759
00:36:56,373 --> 00:36:58,813
Speaker 3: I have been every day.

760
00:36:58,973 --> 00:37:01,893
Speaker 9: That's the company. Yeah, yeah, that's yeah.

761
00:37:01,933 --> 00:37:05,733
Speaker 2: If you change that much, there's limitations. And I imagine

762
00:37:05,733 --> 00:37:08,172
Speaker 2: the same thing with growing a huge beard and such.

763
00:37:08,413 --> 00:37:11,093
Speaker 2: But say, Mike, just to go back to the nightclub situation,

764
00:37:11,613 --> 00:37:16,173
Speaker 2: with the facial recognition technology, would you what if you

765
00:37:16,213 --> 00:37:17,853
Speaker 2: went into a bar and it went bing.

766
00:37:18,413 --> 00:37:21,013
Speaker 3: You're good. Last time you hear you ordered this drink.

767
00:37:21,053 --> 00:37:21,772
Speaker 3: Do you want it again?

768
00:37:22,733 --> 00:37:24,813
Speaker 2: And if you go yes, then you go up to

769
00:37:24,853 --> 00:37:26,533
Speaker 2: the bar and it would be ready for you. Would

770
00:37:26,533 --> 00:37:26,973
Speaker 2: you support that?

771
00:37:28,573 --> 00:37:30,812
Speaker 9: As long as what the bar is doing doesn't hurt

772
00:37:31,013 --> 00:37:34,813
Speaker 9: me and harm me. I couldn't kill less. I think

773
00:37:34,853 --> 00:37:38,013
Speaker 9: I'm intelligent enough to have discretion.

774
00:37:38,253 --> 00:37:42,413
Speaker 2: And just what if they use that information to then say, look,

775
00:37:42,693 --> 00:37:45,573
Speaker 2: buff ten guys like Mike, they like this kind of

776
00:37:45,773 --> 00:37:49,053
Speaker 2: drink and they use that as marketing data.

777
00:37:49,093 --> 00:37:49,933
Speaker 3: How would you feel about that?

778
00:37:51,093 --> 00:37:52,013
Speaker 9: No, it wouldn't bother me.

779
00:37:52,533 --> 00:37:54,013
Speaker 4: Ye, well, thank you so much, long as it was

780
00:37:54,013 --> 00:37:57,293
Speaker 4: a good discount. But I mean that to Mike's point

781
00:37:57,333 --> 00:38:00,133
Speaker 4: about the bars. This is where I'm changing my mind

782
00:38:00,173 --> 00:38:02,573
Speaker 4: a little bit. That I can absolutely understand why bars

783
00:38:02,573 --> 00:38:05,213
Speaker 4: would have that technology to stop people who have got

784
00:38:05,293 --> 00:38:08,773
Speaker 4: into a scrap or been a little bit antisocial. So

785
00:38:08,893 --> 00:38:10,653
Speaker 4: with that in mind, I suppose the same applies to

786
00:38:10,693 --> 00:38:13,053
Speaker 4: a supermarket. Right if someone comes in with the intention

787
00:38:13,253 --> 00:38:16,893
Speaker 4: to commit a crime, then I've changed my mind here.

788
00:38:16,973 --> 00:38:20,853
Speaker 4: Then they are fully within their right to use technology

789
00:38:20,893 --> 00:38:21,653
Speaker 4: to stop the criminal.

790
00:38:21,693 --> 00:38:25,933
Speaker 2: Okay, what about this thought experiment? Then Tyler, what if

791
00:38:25,973 --> 00:38:28,293
Speaker 2: the facial technology gets to the point now where it

792
00:38:28,413 --> 00:38:30,893
Speaker 2: seems to be going with AI where they can read

793
00:38:30,933 --> 00:38:34,853
Speaker 2: your facial expressions and make assumptions about your intentions coming

794
00:38:34,893 --> 00:38:37,653
Speaker 2: into the store. Poor, So you've just had an argument

795
00:38:37,693 --> 00:38:39,333
Speaker 2: with the missus in the car and you come in

796
00:38:39,733 --> 00:38:43,533
Speaker 2: and then you're tagged as someone that's a potential problem

797
00:38:43,613 --> 00:38:45,493
Speaker 2: because you're you're you're very angry.

798
00:38:45,693 --> 00:38:47,733
Speaker 4: It's probably fair enough in that circumstance.

799
00:38:48,173 --> 00:38:48,253
Speaker 9: Oh.

800
00:38:48,293 --> 00:38:50,213
Speaker 4: One hundred eighty ten eighty is the number to call

801
00:38:50,293 --> 00:38:51,213
Speaker 4: it as seven to two.

802
00:38:53,133 --> 00:38:56,293
Speaker 1: Matt Heath, Taylor Adams taking your calls on Oh, eight

803
00:38:56,413 --> 00:38:58,813
Speaker 1: hundred and eighty ten eighty. It's Matt Heath and Tylor

804
00:38:58,853 --> 00:39:00,773
Speaker 1: Adams afternoons news talks.

805
00:39:02,253 --> 00:39:06,453
Speaker 4: It is four to two. A couple of texts before

806
00:39:06,453 --> 00:39:07,253
Speaker 4: we hit the news.

807
00:39:08,573 --> 00:39:11,613
Speaker 2: Talking about shoplifting, brought about other offenses. Is your car

808
00:39:11,733 --> 00:39:14,853
Speaker 2: payment overdue? Your power account, a child support payment? Will

809
00:39:14,893 --> 00:39:16,773
Speaker 2: you be met by a bayliff at the checkout? Will

810
00:39:16,813 --> 00:39:18,853
Speaker 2: you find your car gone when you go to leave

811
00:39:18,933 --> 00:39:21,252
Speaker 2: because the system has alerted a toe truck company about

812
00:39:21,293 --> 00:39:23,933
Speaker 2: your overdue speeding finds don I mean that's the sort

813
00:39:23,973 --> 00:39:26,893
Speaker 2: of slippery slope argument but I would say that the

814
00:39:27,013 --> 00:39:30,293
Speaker 2: supermarkets and retailers that want to do this uninterested in that. Really,

815
00:39:30,373 --> 00:39:33,893
Speaker 2: they just want to stop people robbing them ten times,

816
00:39:34,213 --> 00:39:36,133
Speaker 2: and if someone has already robbed them, they want to

817
00:39:36,253 --> 00:39:39,133
Speaker 2: load their face into the facial recognition technology and when

818
00:39:39,173 --> 00:39:41,292
Speaker 2: they come and they can ping them and go, hey mate,

819
00:39:41,453 --> 00:39:43,053
Speaker 2: last time you were here, you caused the problem.

820
00:39:43,293 --> 00:39:46,453
Speaker 3: Get out. Yep at that point, yep, exactly. Hey.

821
00:39:46,493 --> 00:39:48,533
Speaker 4: Coming up after the news, we're gonna have a chat

822
00:39:48,573 --> 00:39:52,373
Speaker 4: with Retail New Zealand chief executive Carolyn Young. She is

823
00:39:52,493 --> 00:39:55,733
Speaker 4: right across the use of this facial recognition technology. So

824
00:39:55,733 --> 00:39:57,533
Speaker 4: we've got a lot of questions we'll put to her

825
00:39:58,453 --> 00:40:00,293
Speaker 4: very shortly. It is three to two.

826
00:40:02,013 --> 00:40:05,693
Speaker 1: Talking with you all afternoon, It's Matt Heathan Taylor Adams

827
00:40:05,853 --> 00:40:07,653
Speaker 1: Afternoons News Talks.

828
00:40:07,693 --> 00:40:10,333
Speaker 3: It'd be good afternoon to you.

829
00:40:10,493 --> 00:40:13,933
Speaker 4: So, as we've been discussing, Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith wants

830
00:40:13,973 --> 00:40:16,933
Speaker 4: to allow the use of facial recognition technology in the

831
00:40:16,973 --> 00:40:20,493
Speaker 4: fight against retail crime, despite acknowledging tensions with people's right

832
00:40:20,613 --> 00:40:23,813
Speaker 4: to privacy. To discuss this, it's great to have Retail

833
00:40:24,053 --> 00:40:27,653
Speaker 4: n Z chief executive Carolyn Young on the phone. Carolyn

834
00:40:27,773 --> 00:40:28,693
Speaker 4: very Good afternoon to you.

835
00:40:29,733 --> 00:40:30,653
Speaker 6: Carola, Good afternoon.

836
00:40:31,133 --> 00:40:34,853
Speaker 2: So how does this trial facial recognition technology work in

837
00:40:34,933 --> 00:40:35,373
Speaker 2: a store?

838
00:40:37,493 --> 00:40:40,373
Speaker 6: Well, it's I'll do my best to describe it and

839
00:40:40,453 --> 00:40:43,613
Speaker 6: a quick complement. It's as quite complex system. So basically

840
00:40:44,493 --> 00:40:47,853
Speaker 6: to want to put a facial recognition trial in your store,

841
00:40:47,893 --> 00:40:49,813
Speaker 6: you need to have some reason why you would do that.

842
00:40:50,053 --> 00:40:52,453
Speaker 6: So that would be because you've got a number of

843
00:40:52,533 --> 00:40:58,173
Speaker 6: people that are continuing to cause abuse and violence and

844
00:40:58,253 --> 00:41:01,373
Speaker 6: aggression in store. The primary reason it's been put on

845
00:41:01,493 --> 00:41:04,493
Speaker 6: faces for staff safety. There's a lot of violent and

846
00:41:04,533 --> 00:41:07,813
Speaker 6: aggressive behavior we see in retail these days, and so

847
00:41:09,293 --> 00:41:12,212
Speaker 6: what stores have what food Stuffs have done, and they've

848
00:41:12,293 --> 00:41:17,373
Speaker 6: established in a number of stores people that have offended

849
00:41:17,693 --> 00:41:20,653
Speaker 6: in store, whether it's that they have been aggressive and

850
00:41:20,733 --> 00:41:23,693
Speaker 6: violent towards staff, or potentially they may have stolen and

851
00:41:23,813 --> 00:41:27,253
Speaker 6: been aggressive and those sorts of behaviors. They've trespassed them,

852
00:41:27,293 --> 00:41:29,373
Speaker 6: they've been offended. They've got a photo of them from

853
00:41:29,453 --> 00:41:34,013
Speaker 6: the truth pass. Notice, they load that photo and the

854
00:41:34,133 --> 00:41:37,653
Speaker 6: photo is a headshot only, so it doesn't include anything

855
00:41:37,733 --> 00:41:41,133
Speaker 6: below your chin, so no shoulders, no body, no nothing,

856
00:41:41,413 --> 00:41:44,413
Speaker 6: only your head. And so the headshot gets loaded into

857
00:41:44,533 --> 00:41:50,173
Speaker 6: the facial reognition technology system and in the stores that

858
00:41:50,453 --> 00:41:53,133
Speaker 6: they were random stores that were selected to do the

859
00:41:53,253 --> 00:41:55,853
Speaker 6: trial as part of the requirements and the Privacy Commissioner,

860
00:41:56,333 --> 00:41:59,133
Speaker 6: And in those twenty five stores that did the trial,

861
00:41:59,293 --> 00:42:02,293
Speaker 6: they had large signs out the front of the store

862
00:42:02,373 --> 00:42:06,773
Speaker 6: at every entrance telling people that they had their facial

863
00:42:06,853 --> 00:42:09,373
Speaker 6: recognition was in play in the store, and that if

864
00:42:09,413 --> 00:42:12,373
Speaker 6: they didn't want to come in store, that was their

865
00:42:12,493 --> 00:42:14,333
Speaker 6: obviously their ability to not come in, but they were

866
00:42:14,373 --> 00:42:17,213
Speaker 6: notified before they entered store so that they had the

867
00:42:17,333 --> 00:42:19,813
Speaker 6: choice about whether they came in the store. When you

868
00:42:19,933 --> 00:42:21,813
Speaker 6: walk in the store and you or I walk in,

869
00:42:22,293 --> 00:42:27,093
Speaker 6: we have never offended in that particular store, our image

870
00:42:27,173 --> 00:42:33,133
Speaker 6: is deleted immediately. There's no storing of any data. If,

871
00:42:33,173 --> 00:42:36,133
Speaker 6: on the other hand, John Smith, who last time he

872
00:42:36,293 --> 00:42:41,172
Speaker 6: was in the store he spat and kicked that starre, yeah,

873
00:42:41,813 --> 00:42:45,212
Speaker 6: he he has loaded up into the system. He comes

874
00:42:45,293 --> 00:42:49,213
Speaker 6: back into store after he's been trespassed, an alert goes

875
00:42:49,373 --> 00:42:54,293
Speaker 6: to a device that tells the store that John Smith

876
00:42:54,333 --> 00:42:56,893
Speaker 6: has just entered. Now there's a couple of things that

877
00:42:57,013 --> 00:43:02,013
Speaker 6: happen here. Firstly, the store can traffic lighter a person

878
00:43:02,093 --> 00:43:04,013
Speaker 6: that they enter in, so they might they might traff

879
00:43:04,053 --> 00:43:07,333
Speaker 6: it like someone to say, really violent and aggressive, do

880
00:43:07,493 --> 00:43:10,533
Speaker 6: not approach, call the police immediately. You know, based on

881
00:43:10,653 --> 00:43:14,333
Speaker 6: the previous actions that this person has had in that store,

882
00:43:15,693 --> 00:43:18,973
Speaker 6: and so you would know, and part of the way

883
00:43:19,013 --> 00:43:21,652
Speaker 6: you create a safer work environment is that you would

884
00:43:21,733 --> 00:43:24,653
Speaker 6: then know that you've got an extremely violent and aggressive

885
00:43:24,693 --> 00:43:26,693
Speaker 6: person in store, and he's not to be he or

886
00:43:26,733 --> 00:43:29,773
Speaker 6: she has not to be approached. You might have somebody

887
00:43:29,853 --> 00:43:33,493
Speaker 6: else who is you know, maybe they had a bad day,

888
00:43:33,733 --> 00:43:37,213
Speaker 6: they haven't offended previously, they were abusive in store, but

889
00:43:37,293 --> 00:43:39,693
Speaker 6: they have been trespassed for three months or something like that,

890
00:43:39,893 --> 00:43:43,533
Speaker 6: so they might well be approachable. So you could easily

891
00:43:43,773 --> 00:43:46,653
Speaker 6: approach them as they have come to start to have

892
00:43:46,773 --> 00:43:50,213
Speaker 6: come in the store and say, excuse me John Smith,

893
00:43:50,213 --> 00:43:52,973
Speaker 6: will use John Smith again, or maybe you'll use free dag.

894
00:43:53,093 --> 00:43:55,333
Speaker 6: Excuse me, free dag. But you know you've been trespassed,

895
00:43:55,373 --> 00:43:57,653
Speaker 6: you're not meant to be in here. And you know

896
00:43:57,933 --> 00:44:00,693
Speaker 6: eighty to ninety percent of the time you approach somebody

897
00:44:00,813 --> 00:44:05,533
Speaker 6: upon entry and acknowledge them around the actions are taken

898
00:44:05,573 --> 00:44:08,093
Speaker 6: previously and they shouldn't be in store. They will turn away,

899
00:44:08,413 --> 00:44:12,093
Speaker 6: turn around and walk out, and they apologize, and then

900
00:44:12,173 --> 00:44:14,493
Speaker 6: there might be some other people that you might just

901
00:44:14,693 --> 00:44:18,693
Speaker 6: monitor and store. And what facial recognition does is that

902
00:44:19,453 --> 00:44:22,573
Speaker 6: it's a it's a biometric that it takes a view

903
00:44:22,653 --> 00:44:25,933
Speaker 6: of the face that matches up your facial features. The

904
00:44:26,493 --> 00:44:30,973
Speaker 6: minimum match was set at ninety percent, and what food

905
00:44:31,013 --> 00:44:33,653
Speaker 6: Stuffs recognized is that the quality of the photo you

906
00:44:33,733 --> 00:44:35,693
Speaker 6: put into the system needs to be quite high to

907
00:44:35,853 --> 00:44:39,333
Speaker 6: ensure that you get an accurate match. So the threshold

908
00:44:39,493 --> 00:44:42,853
Speaker 6: was ninety percent. If anything was over ninety four or

909
00:44:42,973 --> 00:44:45,693
Speaker 6: ninety five percent, they knew that virtually every time it

910
00:44:45,773 --> 00:44:49,293
Speaker 6: was one hundred percent match between ninety and ninety four

911
00:44:49,333 --> 00:44:51,333
Speaker 6: percent has to take more care because there is an

912
00:44:51,373 --> 00:44:54,933
Speaker 6: element of risk in there, and so with every alert

913
00:44:55,013 --> 00:44:58,133
Speaker 6: that they get, they'd have two trained people would look

914
00:44:58,213 --> 00:45:01,653
Speaker 6: at that photo and consider whether or not it was

915
00:45:01,733 --> 00:45:03,733
Speaker 6: the person that was in their system.

916
00:45:04,613 --> 00:45:07,533
Speaker 2: So, when going going forward with the situation, you say,

917
00:45:07,613 --> 00:45:09,933
Speaker 2: this was just sort of people splitting and violent offenders

918
00:45:09,933 --> 00:45:14,173
Speaker 2: and start. So shoplifters aren't the ones being targeted in

919
00:45:14,253 --> 00:45:17,133
Speaker 2: this trial, But would you see going forward that shoplifters

920
00:45:17,333 --> 00:45:21,533
Speaker 2: would have their faces loaded into this facial recognition technology.

921
00:45:22,453 --> 00:45:25,853
Speaker 6: Yeah, so shoplifters may well have also been included because

922
00:45:25,893 --> 00:45:29,053
Speaker 6: people that are feeling are often violent and aggressive with that,

923
00:45:29,813 --> 00:45:32,973
Speaker 6: so there's a combination of things that the primary reason

924
00:45:33,173 --> 00:45:36,893
Speaker 6: was to keep the staff safe, and by by understanding

925
00:45:36,973 --> 00:45:40,013
Speaker 6: who's in the store enables you to create a safer

926
00:45:40,093 --> 00:45:44,053
Speaker 6: work environment for your staff and for your customers. So

927
00:45:44,733 --> 00:45:47,453
Speaker 6: it ultimately, you know, it does a dual purpose, right,

928
00:45:47,533 --> 00:45:50,773
Speaker 6: It will make the store safer and will reduce the

929
00:45:50,853 --> 00:45:53,652
Speaker 6: amount of offending because most of the people that are

930
00:45:53,813 --> 00:45:59,693
Speaker 6: being violent and abusive and aggressive are also asfending to

931
00:45:59,733 --> 00:46:02,413
Speaker 6: a certain degree in store. I mean, you can't go

932
00:46:02,573 --> 00:46:04,253
Speaker 6: and say to your work collar. You can't go and

933
00:46:04,373 --> 00:46:06,653
Speaker 6: split it them allset or punch them. I've seen videos

934
00:46:07,213 --> 00:46:10,253
Speaker 6: of a four second interaction between a customer and a

935
00:46:10,333 --> 00:46:12,933
Speaker 6: staff member where the customer just punches the staff member

936
00:46:12,973 --> 00:46:16,733
Speaker 6: and say, and it's got accelerated in four seconds. They

937
00:46:16,813 --> 00:46:19,013
Speaker 6: walk up to the counter, they have a conversation, they

938
00:46:19,173 --> 00:46:24,333
Speaker 6: smack them straight away. I've seen other images where people's

939
00:46:24,373 --> 00:46:27,053
Speaker 6: gone in store and they have set fire, They've done

940
00:46:27,293 --> 00:46:29,613
Speaker 6: arson in a store to steal a trolley load of gods.

941
00:46:30,253 --> 00:46:33,013
Speaker 6: So they've gone in there and that puts every staff

942
00:46:33,093 --> 00:46:35,253
Speaker 6: member in danger. Right, if your business is going to

943
00:46:35,333 --> 00:46:39,493
Speaker 6: be set a light that is quite stressful environment to

944
00:46:39,573 --> 00:46:41,973
Speaker 6: be in, so you don't want to help the host

945
00:46:42,053 --> 00:46:44,093
Speaker 6: people coming back in your store, and you want to

946
00:46:44,133 --> 00:46:47,773
Speaker 6: protect you. So it's a dual purpose, right, It protects

947
00:46:47,933 --> 00:46:50,493
Speaker 6: The primary thing is that it protects the staff and

948
00:46:50,573 --> 00:46:53,253
Speaker 6: creates a safe environment. But at the same time, these

949
00:46:53,293 --> 00:46:56,173
Speaker 6: are people that are offending, so it will reduce the

950
00:46:56,933 --> 00:46:58,413
Speaker 6: level of crime and it can be used as a

951
00:46:58,733 --> 00:47:02,613
Speaker 6: preventative tool rather than a reactive tool after the event.

952
00:47:03,053 --> 00:47:05,133
Speaker 6: And the key thing is that if you can approach

953
00:47:05,213 --> 00:47:09,253
Speaker 6: someone within the first minutism being in the store, they

954
00:47:09,373 --> 00:47:11,933
Speaker 6: have not got themselves worked up into a frenzy and

955
00:47:11,933 --> 00:47:14,093
Speaker 6: they're not going to be as aggressive and violent as

956
00:47:14,133 --> 00:47:16,493
Speaker 6: you are. If you get them straight away, if they've

957
00:47:16,493 --> 00:47:18,413
Speaker 6: had time to mooch around the store and they know

958
00:47:18,573 --> 00:47:20,933
Speaker 6: that they've got to get your adrenaline up to force

959
00:47:21,013 --> 00:47:23,253
Speaker 6: through a trolley worth of goods and not pay for it.

960
00:47:24,053 --> 00:47:26,293
Speaker 6: If you're doing that before they've even got anything in

961
00:47:26,333 --> 00:47:29,093
Speaker 6: a trolley or in a bag, you get a much

962
00:47:29,173 --> 00:47:31,733
Speaker 6: better outcome, and certainly the outcomes and the trials for

963
00:47:31,933 --> 00:47:34,053
Speaker 6: that time and time again, we're.

964
00:47:33,853 --> 00:47:37,453
Speaker 2: Talking to Carolyn Young, Retail New Zealand chief executive. So

965
00:47:37,693 --> 00:47:41,133
Speaker 2: is it security that approaches the people? So you have

966
00:47:41,853 --> 00:47:46,213
Speaker 2: security guards on staff and they approach them. It's not

967
00:47:46,333 --> 00:47:48,573
Speaker 2: up to the checkout person to approach these people.

968
00:47:48,373 --> 00:47:48,732
Speaker 3: That are ping.

969
00:47:49,693 --> 00:47:51,533
Speaker 6: Well, no, it's not up to the checkout person. So

970
00:47:51,933 --> 00:47:55,253
Speaker 6: it'll be people in store that have been identified and

971
00:47:55,373 --> 00:47:58,293
Speaker 6: have been trained. So it could be a security guard

972
00:47:58,333 --> 00:48:00,253
Speaker 6: if there's no security guard on judy, because there's not,

973
00:48:00,333 --> 00:48:02,613
Speaker 6: there's two people, So you'll probably have three or four

974
00:48:02,613 --> 00:48:05,773
Speaker 6: people across the environment of a supermarket that are trained

975
00:48:05,773 --> 00:48:08,613
Speaker 6: at any point in time that could use do the

976
00:48:08,693 --> 00:48:12,053
Speaker 6: identification and would get better alert. So, for example, if

977
00:48:12,133 --> 00:48:14,853
Speaker 6: it's at a time when a security guard isn't on duty,

978
00:48:14,973 --> 00:48:17,252
Speaker 6: then it would be it'll be two other senior people

979
00:48:17,333 --> 00:48:20,013
Speaker 6: within the store, but it wouldn't be a checkout operator

980
00:48:20,053 --> 00:48:22,373
Speaker 6: that would be asked to ask someone to leave. It

981
00:48:22,493 --> 00:48:25,813
Speaker 6: someone that's trained and skilled and doing so and can identify,

982
00:48:26,413 --> 00:48:30,213
Speaker 6: you know, as this person violent and aggressive and do

983
00:48:30,293 --> 00:48:32,013
Speaker 6: we need to call a police straight away? And that's

984
00:48:32,053 --> 00:48:34,453
Speaker 6: a really that's probably one of the greatest tools is

985
00:48:34,573 --> 00:48:37,893
Speaker 6: knowing that people that are really aggressive can be addressed

986
00:48:37,933 --> 00:48:39,653
Speaker 6: in a way in which you don't have to you

987
00:48:39,773 --> 00:48:42,133
Speaker 6: call the police. They will come because they know that

988
00:48:42,173 --> 00:48:46,373
Speaker 6: you've already identified someone that's been high level offending previously.

989
00:48:46,693 --> 00:48:48,933
Speaker 4: What are the laws in place for the storage of

990
00:48:49,133 --> 00:48:51,373
Speaker 4: that data, carond because a lot of people they may

991
00:48:51,773 --> 00:48:54,453
Speaker 4: unfairly be freaking out they con dir upt images of

992
00:48:54,613 --> 00:48:58,613
Speaker 4: Minority Report nineteen eighty four. But as the strict laws

993
00:48:58,973 --> 00:49:02,173
Speaker 4: and fail safes in place, that that data is deleted,

994
00:49:02,213 --> 00:49:05,053
Speaker 4: as you say, if nobody does anything wrong and certainly

995
00:49:05,133 --> 00:49:06,252
Speaker 4: can't get into the wrong hands.

996
00:49:07,133 --> 00:49:10,413
Speaker 6: Yeah, couple of things. I guess, well, there's quite a

997
00:49:10,453 --> 00:49:12,692
Speaker 6: lot of things not try and remember to cover everything off.

998
00:49:12,773 --> 00:49:17,213
Speaker 6: But firstly, for those people that are not on the

999
00:49:17,333 --> 00:49:20,692
Speaker 6: alert list, your images to meet deleted immediately because there's

1000
00:49:20,733 --> 00:49:22,573
Speaker 6: nothing to match against. So within the second of you

1001
00:49:22,653 --> 00:49:27,133
Speaker 6: being in the store, your image is deleted. The person

1002
00:49:27,253 --> 00:49:30,053
Speaker 6: who has created the alert or the image that's created

1003
00:49:30,173 --> 00:49:34,733
Speaker 6: the alert, that file is deleted at midnight that night.

1004
00:49:34,813 --> 00:49:36,733
Speaker 6: This is how the trial was a set up with

1005
00:49:36,813 --> 00:49:40,213
Speaker 6: the Privacy Commissioner. So that means that the store has

1006
00:49:40,253 --> 00:49:46,013
Speaker 6: got till midnight to complete a report around what happened?

1007
00:49:46,413 --> 00:49:47,853
Speaker 6: Was it the right person? You know, all of those

1008
00:49:47,893 --> 00:49:51,013
Speaker 6: sorts of things and file that. But then that file

1009
00:49:51,173 --> 00:49:55,053
Speaker 6: is then removed from the system, and that's controlled through

1010
00:49:55,453 --> 00:49:57,773
Speaker 6: third parties that controlled all of that stuff, so it's

1011
00:49:57,813 --> 00:50:02,613
Speaker 6: not stored anywhere you can't go into. And the computer

1012
00:50:02,893 --> 00:50:07,333
Speaker 6: that the financial the facial recognition technology sits on is

1013
00:50:07,373 --> 00:50:10,493
Speaker 6: a separate computer. It's not on a network, it's not

1014
00:50:10,653 --> 00:50:14,493
Speaker 6: on Wi Fi, it's not on any system that is

1015
00:50:14,693 --> 00:50:18,533
Speaker 6: part of a supermarket network or within the store. It's

1016
00:50:18,653 --> 00:50:24,293
Speaker 6: completely standalone. So and it doesn't store anything beyond midnight

1017
00:50:24,493 --> 00:50:27,333
Speaker 6: of an alert from that person. So some of those

1018
00:50:27,773 --> 00:50:30,653
Speaker 6: things might be tweaked a little bit. You can imagine,

1019
00:50:30,813 --> 00:50:34,093
Speaker 6: as an example, in a supermarket, if you are matching

1020
00:50:34,173 --> 00:50:37,773
Speaker 6: a face and only the face and you and it's

1021
00:50:37,813 --> 00:50:41,173
Speaker 6: a ninety six percent match, then you know that's that person.

1022
00:50:41,253 --> 00:50:45,013
Speaker 6: Come into store. Very hard to find that person on

1023
00:50:45,093 --> 00:50:47,533
Speaker 6: a Saturday astronoment. You've got hundreds of people in the

1024
00:50:47,653 --> 00:50:50,133
Speaker 6: store because you don't you don't have any idea what

1025
00:50:50,173 --> 00:50:54,253
Speaker 6: they're wearing at all. Did you find all you've got

1026
00:50:54,293 --> 00:50:56,093
Speaker 6: from the image as a face?

1027
00:50:56,293 --> 00:50:56,493
Speaker 3: Yeah?

1028
00:50:56,933 --> 00:50:59,853
Speaker 2: Did you find because you said this was heavily sign

1029
00:51:00,213 --> 00:51:03,093
Speaker 2: signed and signposted for people coming into the stores that

1030
00:51:03,133 --> 00:51:04,973
Speaker 2: are on the trial, did you find that it affected

1031
00:51:05,093 --> 00:51:08,653
Speaker 2: numbers going in, because that's really if people are coming stable,

1032
00:51:08,693 --> 00:51:10,133
Speaker 2: if people are going in and they're happy to be

1033
00:51:10,733 --> 00:51:15,933
Speaker 2: have their their faces recognized. That I mean round about

1034
00:51:15,973 --> 00:51:19,453
Speaker 2: way of saying decision didn't affect the business.

1035
00:51:21,013 --> 00:51:23,133
Speaker 6: No, not in a negative way, not like that. No,

1036
00:51:23,293 --> 00:51:25,813
Speaker 6: not at all. There's always people that will question whether

1037
00:51:26,013 --> 00:51:29,773
Speaker 6: they're comfortable with something like that technology being used, and

1038
00:51:29,853 --> 00:51:31,813
Speaker 6: they may choose not to go install. But there was

1039
00:51:31,893 --> 00:51:35,813
Speaker 6: no absolutely less well less than one percent. And then

1040
00:51:36,093 --> 00:51:39,173
Speaker 6: there's always ways in which people can access further information

1041
00:51:39,373 --> 00:51:42,013
Speaker 6: via a website around how it's run and what happens

1042
00:51:42,053 --> 00:51:44,453
Speaker 6: in a FAQ on the website and those sorts of things.

1043
00:51:44,533 --> 00:51:47,533
Speaker 6: So the key is making sure that you communicate really

1044
00:51:47,613 --> 00:51:50,453
Speaker 6: well and really strongly with your customers so that they're

1045
00:51:50,493 --> 00:51:53,493
Speaker 6: confident when they're coming install that they're being well looked

1046
00:51:53,533 --> 00:51:56,692
Speaker 6: after and that people aren't using their images in any

1047
00:51:56,773 --> 00:51:58,133
Speaker 6: way that's inappropriate.

1048
00:51:58,413 --> 00:52:00,293
Speaker 2: Well, just two questions to finish, Thank you so much

1049
00:52:00,333 --> 00:52:04,013
Speaker 2: for your time. Will the data be shared with the

1050
00:52:04,093 --> 00:52:07,293
Speaker 2: police via the Aurora network? And secondly, what about people

1051
00:52:07,373 --> 00:52:09,813
Speaker 2: wearing masks and head coverings or with disguises?

1052
00:52:10,893 --> 00:52:13,973
Speaker 6: Great question, right, Let's let's deal with the seat of

1053
00:52:14,053 --> 00:52:17,453
Speaker 6: the last question. First, So what you know, especially if

1054
00:52:17,493 --> 00:52:20,172
Speaker 6: you've got security sitting outside your store, if someone's coming

1055
00:52:20,253 --> 00:52:23,853
Speaker 6: in with a mask, hoddy up and dark glasses, that's

1056
00:52:24,453 --> 00:52:29,853
Speaker 6: that's screams and catterlets travel right, telltale signs, and so

1057
00:52:30,013 --> 00:52:34,453
Speaker 6: what normally happens. The facial recognition system normally has between

1058
00:52:34,613 --> 00:52:38,373
Speaker 6: two and four cameras in store that's all right at

1059
00:52:38,413 --> 00:52:42,053
Speaker 6: the entry, not linked to any of the CCTV or anything.

1060
00:52:42,213 --> 00:52:45,973
Speaker 6: So if they don't capture them in the first two cameras,

1061
00:52:46,533 --> 00:52:51,493
Speaker 6: often someone that has that hasn't been stopped by security

1062
00:52:51,533 --> 00:52:53,813
Speaker 6: for the way they dress with the hot and the

1063
00:52:53,893 --> 00:52:56,813
Speaker 6: mask and the gloves and in the shades and everything.

1064
00:52:57,173 --> 00:52:59,413
Speaker 6: They'll take the shades off and the mask off the

1065
00:52:59,493 --> 00:53:01,053
Speaker 6: minute they get in the store, and they can get

1066
00:53:01,093 --> 00:53:03,493
Speaker 6: picked up on the second camera. But it is certainly

1067
00:53:03,773 --> 00:53:06,053
Speaker 6: a high alert situation. If you see someone like that,

1068
00:53:06,493 --> 00:53:08,133
Speaker 6: it spells trouble with a capital T.

1069
00:53:08,453 --> 00:53:12,533
Speaker 3: Gotcha, and just on the AURA network, Carolyn, Yes, No, it's.

1070
00:53:12,413 --> 00:53:15,533
Speaker 6: A completely separate system. You can't transfer any data across

1071
00:53:15,573 --> 00:53:18,172
Speaker 6: to any other system. It's not part of that. If

1072
00:53:18,213 --> 00:53:20,413
Speaker 6: somebody is ascending in store, you would be using your

1073
00:53:20,493 --> 00:53:24,693
Speaker 6: CCTV images to report those through and remembering that not

1074
00:53:24,773 --> 00:53:28,813
Speaker 6: every retailer uses AURA. So whether you'd be reporting through

1075
00:53:28,813 --> 00:53:31,652
Speaker 6: the one oh five or one one one or through AURA,

1076
00:53:32,453 --> 00:53:38,252
Speaker 6: nothing comes off the Facial Recognition Technology platform To enable

1077
00:53:38,293 --> 00:53:39,933
Speaker 6: you to do that, you have to use your CCTV

1078
00:53:40,093 --> 00:53:40,253
Speaker 6: for that.

1079
00:53:40,453 --> 00:53:43,652
Speaker 4: Gotcha, Carolyn, Thank you very much for having to chat

1080
00:53:43,733 --> 00:53:46,693
Speaker 4: with us. Very interesting. That is retail in z CEO,

1081
00:53:46,933 --> 00:53:51,093
Speaker 4: Carolyn Young. It is twenty past two, will be back

1082
00:53:51,173 --> 00:53:53,013
Speaker 4: very shortly. You're listening to Matt and Tyler.

1083
00:53:53,613 --> 00:53:58,093
Speaker 1: Wow your home of afternoon Talk mad Heathen Taylor Adams

1084
00:53:58,253 --> 00:54:01,933
Speaker 1: Afternoons call oh eight hundred eighty ten eighty News Talk.

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00:54:01,853 --> 00:54:07,613
Speaker 4: ZB News TALKSB twenty three past two. Some great texts

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00:54:07,693 --> 00:54:08,053
Speaker 4: come through?

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00:54:08,333 --> 00:54:10,333
Speaker 3: So how would you all notify the staff?

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00:54:10,413 --> 00:54:12,093
Speaker 2: So the question is, you know, we were just talking

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00:54:12,133 --> 00:54:15,093
Speaker 2: before about facial recognition technology. If John Smith comes in,

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00:54:15,213 --> 00:54:17,813
Speaker 2: do you how do you notify the whole staff? That's

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00:54:17,813 --> 00:54:21,133
Speaker 2: an interesting point. I guess you could go around and

1092
00:54:21,173 --> 00:54:22,813
Speaker 2: say watch out for that guy, watch out for that guy,

1093
00:54:22,853 --> 00:54:24,413
Speaker 2: watch out for that guy, because if you put it.

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00:54:24,453 --> 00:54:27,893
Speaker 3: Over the over the speakers. But then again there are

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00:54:27,973 --> 00:54:28,413
Speaker 3: the codes.

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00:54:28,573 --> 00:54:30,933
Speaker 2: If you read Chuck Pollyannact Box, it talks about all

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00:54:30,973 --> 00:54:32,853
Speaker 2: the codes that they have in different organizations.

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00:54:33,013 --> 00:54:33,172
Speaker 11: Yep.

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00:54:33,333 --> 00:54:36,973
Speaker 2: So you might say green some product that doesn't exist.

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00:54:37,053 --> 00:54:39,613
Speaker 2: That means that there's a bad operator in the store.

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00:54:39,733 --> 00:54:40,453
Speaker 3: Yeah, very true.

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00:54:41,773 --> 00:54:45,172
Speaker 2: Kidney beans and lental cans are discounted. Could someone bring

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00:54:45,253 --> 00:54:47,252
Speaker 2: one to the counter something like that, and everyone knows

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00:54:47,293 --> 00:54:49,533
Speaker 2: that there's the dirty John Smith. John Smith is just

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00:54:49,573 --> 00:54:51,693
Speaker 2: a name that she prought up as an example of

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00:54:51,693 --> 00:54:53,973
Speaker 2: a person, and so many texts going this John Smith

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00:54:54,013 --> 00:54:55,333
Speaker 2: sounds like a right piece of work.

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00:54:55,573 --> 00:54:55,893
Speaker 3: Bannon.

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00:54:56,373 --> 00:54:59,853
Speaker 2: This person says, taser John Smith. Now this person says,

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00:54:59,933 --> 00:55:02,093
Speaker 2: all John Smith should be tased as they enter the store.

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00:55:02,213 --> 00:55:04,133
Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean that was just her polling a name.

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00:55:04,173 --> 00:55:06,213
Speaker 4: If your named John Smith, we apologize to is. She

1113
00:55:06,293 --> 00:55:08,613
Speaker 4: also said fred Dagg And this one says, guys, it

1114
00:55:08,693 --> 00:55:11,333
Speaker 4: always starts with it's all about safety and ends with

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00:55:11,733 --> 00:55:16,213
Speaker 4: take this experimental information, and I hope that we're going

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00:55:16,293 --> 00:55:16,973
Speaker 4: to use it correctly.

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00:55:18,133 --> 00:55:20,133
Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean that is some of the concerns.

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00:55:20,173 --> 00:55:22,533
Speaker 4: But I think what Carolyn was saying made a lot

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00:55:22,573 --> 00:55:24,013
Speaker 4: of sense, and it does sound like there is a

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00:55:24,053 --> 00:55:26,173
Speaker 4: lot of fail safes in there, and that the information

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00:55:26,373 --> 00:55:28,573
Speaker 4: certainly wasn't used if you didn't do anything wrong. It

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00:55:28,693 --> 00:55:30,693
Speaker 4: was deleted out of the system and wasn't stored.

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00:55:31,693 --> 00:55:31,853
Speaker 3: Right.

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00:55:33,133 --> 00:55:35,692
Speaker 4: It is twenty four past two. You're listening to Matt

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00:55:35,733 --> 00:55:38,253
Speaker 4: and Tyler back very shortly. Great to have your company

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00:55:38,333 --> 00:55:39,172
Speaker 4: as always.

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00:55:43,653 --> 00:55:47,013
Speaker 1: Matt Heathen, Tyler Adams afternoons call oh eight hundred and

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00:55:47,093 --> 00:55:49,133
Speaker 1: eighty ten eighty on News Talks EDB.

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00:55:49,853 --> 00:55:50,853
Speaker 3: News Talks EDB.

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00:55:51,013 --> 00:55:56,373
Speaker 4: It is twenty seven pass two, right coming up, Let's

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00:55:56,413 --> 00:55:59,693
Speaker 4: have a chat about sex education. The government has started

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00:55:59,733 --> 00:56:03,813
Speaker 4: consulting on new draft Curriculum for Relationships and Sexuality Education.

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00:56:04,093 --> 00:56:06,453
Speaker 4: They call it RC in schools.

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00:56:06,893 --> 00:56:09,613
Speaker 3: Let's talk about sex ed Bay, let's talk about you

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00:56:09,973 --> 00:56:15,253
Speaker 3: and me? Wait, one hundred eighty ten ed very good.

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00:56:15,293 --> 00:56:17,773
Speaker 3: It kind of worked. It kind of worked. Syllable missing there,

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00:56:17,813 --> 00:56:22,013
Speaker 3: but it kind of worked. Yeah, so schools all very well.

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00:56:22,133 --> 00:56:24,493
Speaker 2: But you'd be a pretty slack parent, wouldn't you if

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00:56:24,533 --> 00:56:26,893
Speaker 2: you just left sexy it up to them? So when

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00:56:26,973 --> 00:56:29,053
Speaker 2: and how should parents approach it? How did you do

1141
00:56:29,173 --> 00:56:30,652
Speaker 2: it with your kids? If you did it, how did

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00:56:30,693 --> 00:56:33,133
Speaker 2: your parents do it with you? Because I'm sure it's

1143
00:56:33,253 --> 00:56:37,893
Speaker 2: changed a lot through the fifties, sixties, seventies, eighties, nineties

1144
00:56:38,213 --> 00:56:43,933
Speaker 2: and today hit music and look, well, maybe if you didn't.

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00:56:44,573 --> 00:56:46,213
Speaker 2: You know, maybe there's some people that think that's up

1146
00:56:46,213 --> 00:56:48,853
Speaker 2: to the government to educate their kids on these topics,

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00:56:48,853 --> 00:56:50,573
Speaker 2: and they're quite happy with just how it rolled through

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00:56:50,613 --> 00:56:54,133
Speaker 2: the schools and never bought anything up. I mean I

1149
00:56:54,213 --> 00:56:56,173
Speaker 2: started that by saying I think there's a slack parents.

1150
00:56:56,213 --> 00:56:59,973
Speaker 2: I've sort of I revealed my assumptions here, but some

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00:57:00,093 --> 00:57:01,933
Speaker 2: people might just go, look, the government knows what it's

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00:57:01,933 --> 00:57:04,653
Speaker 2: talking about. I'm happy with the government to decide on

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00:57:04,893 --> 00:57:07,893
Speaker 2: what the schools teach my kids around sex.

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00:57:08,493 --> 00:57:09,573
Speaker 3: Nothing against my parents.

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00:57:09,653 --> 00:57:12,933
Speaker 4: They're both beautiful, beautiful people, but they certainly didn't sit

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00:57:13,053 --> 00:57:14,733
Speaker 4: us down to have a chat about the birds and

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00:57:14,773 --> 00:57:17,893
Speaker 4: bees that much. That first started in the schooling system,

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00:57:18,253 --> 00:57:20,733
Speaker 4: and then when we had a few more questions, their

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00:57:20,813 --> 00:57:22,133
Speaker 4: mom took up the mantle.

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00:57:22,573 --> 00:57:24,333
Speaker 3: Dad didn't want to bar of it too awkward.

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00:57:24,613 --> 00:57:27,573
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, my dad when early explained some stuff to

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00:57:27,613 --> 00:57:29,813
Speaker 2: me and I wrote some rude words on the blackboard

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00:57:29,813 --> 00:57:32,013
Speaker 2: at Multi Hill Primary School that have caused a lot

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00:57:32,053 --> 00:57:34,013
Speaker 2: of problems and my parents were called to school.

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00:57:34,093 --> 00:57:34,853
Speaker 3: That's the way to do it.

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00:57:34,973 --> 00:57:37,013
Speaker 4: Oh, eight one hundred and eighty ten eighty is the

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00:57:37,093 --> 00:57:39,213
Speaker 4: number to call. Love to hear your thoughts on the

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00:57:39,333 --> 00:57:42,173
Speaker 4: changes to six head and how you have that discussion

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00:57:42,373 --> 00:57:44,933
Speaker 4: with your children. It is twenty eight past two.

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00:57:47,893 --> 00:57:51,533
Speaker 13: Yous talk said the headlines with blue bubble taxis it's

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00:57:51,653 --> 00:57:54,773
Speaker 13: no trouble with a blue bubble. Heavy rain and strong

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00:57:54,933 --> 00:57:57,933
Speaker 13: winds are set to lash the Upper North Island. Met

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00:57:57,973 --> 00:58:00,973
Speaker 13: Services issued a heavy rain watch for Northland from early

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00:58:01,093 --> 00:58:05,213
Speaker 13: tomorrow morning. Auckland, Great Barring Island and Corimandel Peninsula are

1175
00:58:05,253 --> 00:58:09,013
Speaker 13: set to be hit on Thursday, easing on Friday. The

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00:58:09,293 --> 00:58:12,453
Speaker 13: Justice and Police Minister says the government surpassed its own

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00:58:12,653 --> 00:58:16,253
Speaker 13: violent crime reduction target. It set a goal in March

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00:58:16,413 --> 00:58:19,933
Speaker 13: last year of having twenty thousand fewer victims of serious

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00:58:20,053 --> 00:58:24,893
Speaker 13: violent crime, with an initial twenty twenty nine deadline. Small

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00:58:24,933 --> 00:58:28,373
Speaker 13: and medium business confidence is on the rise, reaching its

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00:58:28,453 --> 00:58:32,213
Speaker 13: highest point in five years. A survey by accounting software

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00:58:32,253 --> 00:58:36,573
Speaker 13: firm Noyob has found forty six percent of respondents expect

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00:58:36,653 --> 00:58:41,293
Speaker 13: the economy to improve over the next year. Claims are necessary,

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00:58:41,413 --> 00:58:45,773
Speaker 13: Delays in getting people back to work are costing ACC millions,

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00:58:46,733 --> 00:58:50,773
Speaker 13: Vigilante violence fifteen to twenty five percent, chants of attack

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00:58:50,853 --> 00:58:54,853
Speaker 13: on MP Benjamin Doyle. A security report shows you can

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00:58:54,893 --> 00:58:57,533
Speaker 13: find out more at ens adherld Premium. Now back to

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00:58:57,613 --> 00:58:59,213
Speaker 13: Matteathan Tyler Adams.

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00:58:59,093 --> 00:59:02,493
Speaker 4: Thank you, ay Lean, And we're discussing our sex education

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00:59:02,653 --> 00:59:04,813
Speaker 4: and schools. The government, as you may or may not

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00:59:04,933 --> 00:59:07,773
Speaker 4: have seen, they have started consultation on a new draft

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00:59:07,973 --> 00:59:11,333
Speaker 4: correct and four Relationships and Sexuality Education. They call it

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00:59:11,493 --> 00:59:15,493
Speaker 4: ARAC in schools. Those guidelines provided optional advice to schools

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00:59:15,533 --> 00:59:19,373
Speaker 4: on how to teach children about those relationships and sexuality

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00:59:19,413 --> 00:59:22,293
Speaker 4: and aspects are likely to be included in that new curriculum,

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00:59:22,293 --> 00:59:25,613
Speaker 4: which will be mandatory for schools to teach. However, parents

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00:59:25,653 --> 00:59:27,773
Speaker 4: will still be able to opt their children out.

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00:59:27,613 --> 00:59:28,133
Speaker 3: Of the program.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, standard said, we're going to going out for consultation

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00:59:32,413 --> 00:59:34,293
Speaker 2: to say is this the right time to be talking

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00:59:34,293 --> 00:59:37,173
Speaker 2: about these differences? Is it the right time to be

1202
00:59:37,293 --> 00:59:39,613
Speaker 2: talking about consent? Is it the right time to be

1203
00:59:39,733 --> 00:59:42,453
Speaker 2: naming body parts when you're five years old? Is it

1204
00:59:42,533 --> 00:59:45,813
Speaker 2: okay that we're talking more to boys in upper secondary

1205
00:59:45,893 --> 00:59:48,773
Speaker 2: school about consent? Is it okay to start talking about

1206
00:59:48,813 --> 00:59:50,453
Speaker 2: online safety in year five?

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00:59:51,053 --> 00:59:54,653
Speaker 3: That's what we're out to do. So boy, our boy.

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00:59:54,733 --> 00:59:57,373
Speaker 2: It's a contentious issue for the longest period of time,

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00:59:58,053 --> 01:00:02,853
Speaker 2: but yeah, one hundred and eighty ten eighty do you

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01:00:03,133 --> 01:00:04,573
Speaker 2: are you happy just to leave it in the hands

1211
01:00:04,613 --> 01:00:06,853
Speaker 2: of the government, or are you going to have that

1212
01:00:06,973 --> 01:00:08,253
Speaker 2: chat you to your kids?

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01:00:08,413 --> 01:00:08,613
Speaker 3: Yeah?

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01:00:08,653 --> 01:00:11,533
Speaker 2: And if so when and if so, what about and

1215
01:00:12,613 --> 01:00:14,133
Speaker 2: e one hundred and eighteen eighty Tell us how it

1216
01:00:14,133 --> 01:00:15,613
Speaker 2: went if you did it in the past, or tell

1217
01:00:15,653 --> 01:00:17,973
Speaker 2: it how it went when you received it. Kids growing

1218
01:00:18,053 --> 01:00:20,373
Speaker 2: up on a farm, saysus, text to see it all

1219
01:00:20,413 --> 01:00:23,293
Speaker 2: the time and luckily learn the way it was, explaining

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01:00:23,373 --> 01:00:24,573
Speaker 2: at a very young age.

1221
01:00:24,413 --> 01:00:27,693
Speaker 3: No bicking. That's so true. That is so true, very true.

1222
01:00:27,853 --> 01:00:29,093
Speaker 3: And the sixer says the same thing.

1223
01:00:29,173 --> 01:00:31,813
Speaker 2: Take the kids to the farm during mating season and

1224
01:00:31,933 --> 01:00:34,413
Speaker 2: fill the questions that our I seriously though, best way

1225
01:00:34,453 --> 01:00:37,973
Speaker 2: to show it's very normal. That is a really good point.

1226
01:00:38,013 --> 01:00:40,613
Speaker 2: There's no way that you can be around a farm

1227
01:00:41,093 --> 01:00:45,733
Speaker 2: and not see. I mean, kids are going, why is yeah?

1228
01:00:46,013 --> 01:00:48,373
Speaker 4: Why is the seat cow jumping up on that other cow?

1229
01:00:48,573 --> 01:00:48,733
Speaker 11: Yeah?

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01:00:48,773 --> 01:00:51,493
Speaker 3: Why is that sheep trying to ride the other sheep? Daddy?

1231
01:00:51,773 --> 01:00:55,613
Speaker 3: Yeh well, well let me tell you, let me tell you. Yeah.

1232
01:00:55,933 --> 01:00:58,653
Speaker 3: Of course, the way animals do it isn't necessarily the

1233
01:00:58,733 --> 01:01:01,533
Speaker 3: way we want to do it ourselves. But love to

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01:01:01,573 --> 01:01:03,053
Speaker 3: hear thoughts. I one hundred eighteen eighty.

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01:01:04,213 --> 01:01:06,573
Speaker 4: Did you think it's harder for appearance now that kids

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01:01:06,613 --> 01:01:09,493
Speaker 4: say of X is to way more information than I

1237
01:01:09,653 --> 01:01:12,973
Speaker 4: had when I was eleven twelve thirteen, when the teacher

1238
01:01:13,053 --> 01:01:16,493
Speaker 4: sat down and started going through the book on sexuality

1239
01:01:16,493 --> 01:01:20,493
Speaker 4: and Relationships. I mean, what's your take on it. Do

1240
01:01:20,533 --> 01:01:23,893
Speaker 4: you think it is more treacherous for parents to try

1241
01:01:23,973 --> 01:01:26,773
Speaker 4: and tackle that now, or that kids are coming up

1242
01:01:26,813 --> 01:01:29,293
Speaker 4: to them at an earlier age with questions that they've

1243
01:01:29,333 --> 01:01:31,453
Speaker 4: got to try and answer the best way they can't.

1244
01:01:31,653 --> 01:01:32,773
Speaker 3: Oh, I reckon this. Probably.

1245
01:01:34,013 --> 01:01:37,733
Speaker 2: I reckon this questions coming a lot earlier. Yeah, absolutely.

1246
01:01:38,733 --> 01:01:43,493
Speaker 2: I mean watching movies with your kids on Netflix. You know,

1247
01:01:44,453 --> 01:01:45,973
Speaker 2: one of those things that happens to you when you've

1248
01:01:46,013 --> 01:01:48,693
Speaker 2: got kids, as you watch these movies and you can't

1249
01:01:48,693 --> 01:01:51,133
Speaker 2: wait to show your kid this movie, and then you've

1250
01:01:51,213 --> 01:01:55,093
Speaker 2: totally forgotten about the quite intense six scenes and it

1251
01:01:55,173 --> 01:01:57,653
Speaker 2: pops up, and then there's all kinds of questions. I

1252
01:01:57,813 --> 01:01:59,533
Speaker 2: just think you just have to not be afraid of it.

1253
01:02:00,653 --> 01:02:04,653
Speaker 3: You know, you can't make it a scary or weird thing.

1254
01:02:04,933 --> 01:02:07,413
Speaker 3: It just has to be something you ask questions straight up.

1255
01:02:08,413 --> 01:02:09,893
Speaker 2: I mean I would argue that you have to get

1256
01:02:09,933 --> 01:02:13,893
Speaker 2: into it before puberty. And you know puberty can come

1257
01:02:13,893 --> 01:02:17,053
Speaker 2: at different ages for different kids, but I'd get into

1258
01:02:17,093 --> 01:02:19,693
Speaker 2: it before puberty with my kids, before the try and

1259
01:02:20,093 --> 01:02:24,853
Speaker 2: try and get in there. I mean, I think you

1260
01:02:24,933 --> 01:02:27,813
Speaker 2: definitely want to control the discourse as much as the

1261
01:02:27,853 --> 01:02:28,333
Speaker 2: school does.

1262
01:02:28,453 --> 01:02:30,133
Speaker 4: Well, that was my next question is do you wait

1263
01:02:30,173 --> 01:02:31,893
Speaker 4: for the child to come to you or do you

1264
01:02:32,093 --> 01:02:36,053
Speaker 4: try and go to the children first and sit them

1265
01:02:36,093 --> 01:02:37,773
Speaker 4: down and have that chat. But keen to hear your

1266
01:02:37,813 --> 01:02:40,613
Speaker 4: thoughts on this. I waite hundred eighty ten eighty. How

1267
01:02:40,693 --> 01:02:44,133
Speaker 4: did you have that chat with your children? And how

1268
01:02:44,173 --> 01:02:48,253
Speaker 4: do you feel about this consultation document how sex education

1269
01:02:48,373 --> 01:02:50,613
Speaker 4: has been taught in our schools and high schools.

1270
01:02:50,613 --> 01:02:52,013
Speaker 2: So you know what I'd love to hear from people,

1271
01:02:52,053 --> 01:02:55,253
Speaker 2: as I was saying before the old school chats, the

1272
01:02:55,453 --> 01:03:00,173
Speaker 2: really old school sixty seventies, eighties chats that parents attempted

1273
01:03:00,173 --> 01:03:00,253
Speaker 2: to do.

1274
01:03:00,453 --> 01:03:01,253
Speaker 3: What was your opener?

1275
01:03:01,413 --> 01:03:03,493
Speaker 4: Oh, eight, one hundred eighty ten eighty is the number

1276
01:03:03,493 --> 01:03:03,773
Speaker 4: to call?

1277
01:03:03,813 --> 01:03:04,933
Speaker 3: It is twenty four to three.

1278
01:03:06,053 --> 01:03:09,413
Speaker 1: The big stories, the big issues, the big trends and

1279
01:03:09,773 --> 01:03:13,853
Speaker 1: everything in between. Matt Heath and Tyler Adams afternoons used talks.

1280
01:03:13,893 --> 01:03:17,093
Speaker 4: They'd be very good afternoon too. You were talking about

1281
01:03:17,213 --> 01:03:21,813
Speaker 4: changes to sex education. Consultation has been opened, but we've

1282
01:03:21,853 --> 01:03:24,173
Speaker 4: also asked the question, how did you have that conversation

1283
01:03:24,253 --> 01:03:25,053
Speaker 4: with your own children?

1284
01:03:25,333 --> 01:03:25,533
Speaker 3: Yeah?

1285
01:03:25,853 --> 01:03:29,573
Speaker 2: Or how did your parents awkwardly approach you with the conversation?

1286
01:03:29,773 --> 01:03:29,933
Speaker 11: Yea.

1287
01:03:29,933 --> 01:03:32,573
Speaker 2: I love to hear some of those chats boy a

1288
01:03:32,653 --> 01:03:34,493
Speaker 2: boy in a few years my parents. When my kids

1289
01:03:34,573 --> 01:03:37,293
Speaker 2: look back and tell stories about how I approached it,

1290
01:03:37,373 --> 01:03:39,493
Speaker 2: they'll say that was horribly awkward.

1291
01:03:41,973 --> 01:03:43,213
Speaker 3: Penny. Your thoughts on this?

1292
01:03:44,893 --> 01:03:47,253
Speaker 8: Hi, guys, thanks for having me, Thanks for giving us

1293
01:03:47,253 --> 01:03:47,533
Speaker 8: a buzz.

1294
01:03:47,573 --> 01:03:48,173
Speaker 3: What's your thoughts?

1295
01:03:49,133 --> 01:03:53,013
Speaker 15: Yeah, well my thoughts. I have an organization called Let

1296
01:03:53,093 --> 01:03:55,213
Speaker 15: Kids Be Kids, So I talked to lots of different parents.

1297
01:03:55,253 --> 01:03:57,653
Speaker 15: But I'll start by answering your question, how did I

1298
01:03:57,733 --> 01:03:59,173
Speaker 15: have the conversation with my kids?

1299
01:04:00,173 --> 01:04:00,213
Speaker 13: What?

1300
01:04:00,333 --> 01:04:02,653
Speaker 15: I sound really good? And I tell people this is

1301
01:04:03,053 --> 01:04:04,773
Speaker 15: have it while you're driving in the car because they

1302
01:04:04,813 --> 01:04:08,333
Speaker 15: can't get out and you don't have to look them

1303
01:04:08,453 --> 01:04:11,013
Speaker 15: in the eye because that can be awkward. Because I

1304
01:04:11,093 --> 01:04:13,733
Speaker 15: have sons, and so I found that chatting about it

1305
01:04:13,813 --> 01:04:15,133
Speaker 15: in the car was a great way to do it

1306
01:04:15,253 --> 01:04:19,053
Speaker 15: because it was lighthearted. My approach on it was I

1307
01:04:19,573 --> 01:04:22,693
Speaker 15: didn't want them finding out from their mates in the

1308
01:04:22,733 --> 01:04:26,093
Speaker 15: school yard who don't actually really know. And the more

1309
01:04:26,133 --> 01:04:28,133
Speaker 15: that I look at the sexy and stuff that's taught

1310
01:04:28,213 --> 01:04:30,653
Speaker 15: in some schools, the more I'm grateful that my kids

1311
01:04:30,733 --> 01:04:32,893
Speaker 15: went through most of the system without it, because that's

1312
01:04:32,973 --> 01:04:35,493
Speaker 15: not what some of it isn't what you want them

1313
01:04:35,533 --> 01:04:39,693
Speaker 15: to know either, So parents have always been the best

1314
01:04:39,813 --> 01:04:42,413
Speaker 15: people to teach most kids about it. It was quite

1315
01:04:42,453 --> 01:04:46,613
Speaker 15: concerning just the overall push in the narrative that parents

1316
01:04:46,653 --> 01:04:48,973
Speaker 15: are not the best people to teach their kids about stuff.

1317
01:04:49,013 --> 01:04:51,653
Speaker 15: I mean, they know about it, otherwise your kids wouldn't

1318
01:04:51,653 --> 01:04:52,133
Speaker 15: have existed.

1319
01:04:53,213 --> 01:04:56,613
Speaker 2: What about, Penny, What about the parents that just don't

1320
01:04:56,653 --> 01:05:00,493
Speaker 2: get round to it and for whatever reason, maybe they're

1321
01:05:00,533 --> 01:05:04,933
Speaker 2: poor parents, or maybe they're just find it too awkward

1322
01:05:05,013 --> 01:05:06,013
Speaker 2: and never find the moment and.

1323
01:05:06,053 --> 01:05:06,813
Speaker 3: Never get round to it.

1324
01:05:07,053 --> 01:05:09,093
Speaker 2: Do you think that the school should be taking up

1325
01:05:09,093 --> 01:05:10,933
Speaker 2: some of the slack there the schools.

1326
01:05:11,293 --> 01:05:13,693
Speaker 15: I think there's some I think there's some cultures that

1327
01:05:13,813 --> 01:05:17,453
Speaker 15: would be that would that finds us harder to talk about.

1328
01:05:18,333 --> 01:05:21,093
Speaker 15: But I don't think that that's representative of the majority

1329
01:05:21,133 --> 01:05:25,013
Speaker 15: of the population, And therefore I don't believe that mandating

1330
01:05:25,853 --> 01:05:30,773
Speaker 15: sex education and then not being transparent with parents about

1331
01:05:31,213 --> 01:05:33,453
Speaker 15: what's being taught, which is what's going on, is the

1332
01:05:33,493 --> 01:05:36,533
Speaker 15: way to solve that problem. I think there's a better

1333
01:05:36,773 --> 01:05:41,933
Speaker 15: way to empower parents and to yeah, rather than to

1334
01:05:42,213 --> 01:05:44,333
Speaker 15: say that the parents are doing a bad job. I

1335
01:05:44,373 --> 01:05:46,933
Speaker 15: don't know why that narrative has managed to get so big,

1336
01:05:47,133 --> 01:05:49,373
Speaker 15: because an actual fact, I don't think the problem is

1337
01:05:49,413 --> 01:05:51,173
Speaker 15: as big as it's being made out to be.

1338
01:05:52,293 --> 01:05:55,253
Speaker 4: Is it harder, do you think, for parents in today's

1339
01:05:55,293 --> 01:05:58,853
Speaker 4: age than it has been with excess for a lot

1340
01:05:58,893 --> 01:06:00,973
Speaker 4: of young people to pretty much any information that they

1341
01:06:01,053 --> 01:06:03,533
Speaker 4: want on the internet. Does that make things more difficult

1342
01:06:03,573 --> 01:06:05,013
Speaker 4: that you've got to try and get them a bit younger?

1343
01:06:07,733 --> 01:06:10,173
Speaker 15: I think that if we're parents, should be parenting and

1344
01:06:10,293 --> 01:06:13,893
Speaker 15: actually realizing that the stuff that's available with their kids

1345
01:06:13,933 --> 01:06:16,653
Speaker 15: online is more harmful than we could have ever imagined,

1346
01:06:16,813 --> 01:06:18,533
Speaker 15: and that's something that needs to be dealt with in

1347
01:06:18,613 --> 01:06:24,333
Speaker 15: the home. But I also, you know, the massive difference

1348
01:06:24,453 --> 01:06:26,093
Speaker 15: is going on. When I was at school, we had

1349
01:06:26,133 --> 01:06:31,173
Speaker 15: sex ed. Now it's sexuality ed, which is very very different,

1350
01:06:31,653 --> 01:06:36,093
Speaker 15: and it's very ideological. And you know, when we were

1351
01:06:36,133 --> 01:06:39,093
Speaker 15: growing up, there weren't furies, and there weren't all the

1352
01:06:39,213 --> 01:06:43,693
Speaker 15: other one hundred different genders and now there is and biologically,

1353
01:06:43,933 --> 01:06:47,813
Speaker 15: as species, we haven't changed, but what's changed is the ideology.

1354
01:06:47,853 --> 01:06:50,293
Speaker 15: And parents need to understand that sex ed that we

1355
01:06:50,453 --> 01:06:52,973
Speaker 15: grew up with is not the same as what children

1356
01:06:53,013 --> 01:06:54,333
Speaker 15: are receiven in class today.

1357
01:06:54,973 --> 01:06:57,813
Speaker 2: And do you believe that the sex ed that they

1358
01:06:57,853 --> 01:07:00,053
Speaker 2: should get should be, for a want of a bit

1359
01:07:00,093 --> 01:07:03,853
Speaker 2: of a word, more functional. I remember my son, one

1360
01:07:03,853 --> 01:07:06,613
Speaker 2: of my sons, came home from school and he was like, Wow, Dad,

1361
01:07:07,053 --> 01:07:08,053
Speaker 2: it's great to be a boy.

1362
01:07:08,533 --> 01:07:08,693
Speaker 9: Way.

1363
01:07:09,213 --> 01:07:12,213
Speaker 2: The stuff's really easy for us because of what was

1364
01:07:12,293 --> 01:07:15,573
Speaker 2: being described in terms of the biological functions that boys

1365
01:07:15,613 --> 01:07:17,813
Speaker 2: and girls go through as they hit puberty. So do

1366
01:07:17,853 --> 01:07:20,213
Speaker 2: you think it should be more along just those lines,

1367
01:07:20,373 --> 01:07:23,733
Speaker 2: just the stuff that they need to understand to be

1368
01:07:23,853 --> 01:07:26,733
Speaker 2: able to go to school and know what's happening to them.

1369
01:07:28,893 --> 01:07:31,213
Speaker 15: Well, it's good that he's come home saying that, because

1370
01:07:31,253 --> 01:07:34,773
Speaker 15: he's obviously getting biological information, which is great, and we've

1371
01:07:34,773 --> 01:07:37,293
Speaker 15: always had that in schools when Miles growing up, it

1372
01:07:37,413 --> 01:07:40,253
Speaker 15: was an intermediate age. The problem that's happening now is

1373
01:07:40,333 --> 01:07:44,213
Speaker 15: that kids are being taught stuff from when they're five

1374
01:07:44,333 --> 01:07:46,893
Speaker 15: years old that's quite sexual in nature and gets more

1375
01:07:46,973 --> 01:07:50,893
Speaker 15: so so the whole framework has changed when we talk

1376
01:07:50,933 --> 01:07:53,813
Speaker 15: to parents and explain that the stuff now in school

1377
01:07:53,853 --> 01:07:58,053
Speaker 15: from five year olds. You know, if people are thinking

1378
01:07:58,173 --> 01:08:01,693
Speaker 15: that we should be teaching five year old sexual topics,

1379
01:08:01,773 --> 01:08:05,013
Speaker 15: we need to have a bigger question about society. We

1380
01:08:05,093 --> 01:08:09,373
Speaker 15: shouldn't be loading children with adult concepts. Their brains are

1381
01:08:09,413 --> 01:08:11,253
Speaker 15: not ready for it, and that they take their body

1382
01:08:11,333 --> 01:08:13,613
Speaker 15: they take it literally. Like we hear about stories of

1383
01:08:14,053 --> 01:08:16,813
Speaker 15: you know, eight year olds who come home questioning.

1384
01:08:16,412 --> 01:08:18,532
Speaker 6: Whether they're meant a boy that's meant meant to be

1385
01:08:18,572 --> 01:08:20,372
Speaker 6: a girl because they got told it in class.

1386
01:08:20,572 --> 01:08:24,892
Speaker 15: Their brains are not ready for the ideological political narratives

1387
01:08:24,893 --> 01:08:27,013
Speaker 15: that's been pushed on them. And it's so different from

1388
01:08:27,053 --> 01:08:27,492
Speaker 15: sex ed.

1389
01:08:28,492 --> 01:08:30,973
Speaker 2: So, Penny, what would you what would you say? So

1390
01:08:31,013 --> 01:08:34,133
Speaker 2: when you talk about sex ed versus sexuality? What what

1391
01:08:34,253 --> 01:08:37,293
Speaker 2: would you see? Basically are the things that need to

1392
01:08:37,372 --> 01:08:41,492
Speaker 2: be taught at schools and and you know what are

1393
01:08:41,652 --> 01:08:42,932
Speaker 2: what are the basics and when?

1394
01:08:45,173 --> 01:08:48,932
Speaker 15: So the basics would be that there is a binary

1395
01:08:48,973 --> 01:08:51,213
Speaker 15: difference between boys and girls. But you don't need to

1396
01:08:51,253 --> 01:08:53,532
Speaker 15: teach that from young because they actually figure this out

1397
01:08:53,612 --> 01:08:57,852
Speaker 15: because they actually know stuff without being taught explicitly in

1398
01:08:57,933 --> 01:09:01,892
Speaker 15: the class, you know, and then as they're growing up

1399
01:09:02,213 --> 01:09:06,932
Speaker 15: more about their you know, healthy relationships and their pubertal changes,

1400
01:09:06,973 --> 01:09:11,132
Speaker 15: their body changes, and they do need to be helped

1401
01:09:11,452 --> 01:09:14,333
Speaker 15: to know how to deal with the assault that is

1402
01:09:14,492 --> 01:09:17,452
Speaker 15: the sexualized world that they live in, which is online

1403
01:09:17,732 --> 01:09:20,932
Speaker 15: and in the school and everywhere and in the TV

1404
01:09:21,053 --> 01:09:24,053
Speaker 15: and everything. But it's got to be taught in a

1405
01:09:24,093 --> 01:09:26,772
Speaker 15: way that doesn't further sexualize them. There is content in

1406
01:09:26,933 --> 01:09:31,133
Speaker 15: classes in schools that we know about that parents have

1407
01:09:31,253 --> 01:09:34,532
Speaker 15: seen and kids have told us about that looks like

1408
01:09:34,772 --> 01:09:37,652
Speaker 15: porn and it looks like grooming. Now, if you pass

1409
01:09:37,812 --> 01:09:39,812
Speaker 15: that to some kid out on the street, you'd probably

1410
01:09:39,853 --> 01:09:43,213
Speaker 15: be arrested. But because it's been taught under the guise

1411
01:09:43,253 --> 01:09:47,492
Speaker 15: of relationship and sexuality education, it's apparently allowed, and not

1412
01:09:47,612 --> 01:09:52,772
Speaker 15: only allowed, but parents often aren't told what the content is.

1413
01:09:52,853 --> 01:09:55,572
Speaker 15: They're told that due to copyright, the parents can't know. Now,

1414
01:09:56,732 --> 01:10:00,532
Speaker 15: Never would a parent think that the lessons that they're

1415
01:10:00,572 --> 01:10:02,532
Speaker 15: being taught the kids have been taught in class should

1416
01:10:02,532 --> 01:10:05,492
Speaker 15: be copyright, particularly not when the Education and Training Act

1417
01:10:05,893 --> 01:10:09,173
Speaker 15: actually says that parents cannot doubt How can a parent

1418
01:10:09,213 --> 01:10:12,013
Speaker 15: opt out if they've been told the content is copyright.

1419
01:10:12,013 --> 01:10:14,133
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, thank you so much for your call, Penny.

1420
01:10:14,173 --> 01:10:16,452
Speaker 2: You're getting a lot of support on the text machine now.

1421
01:10:16,692 --> 01:10:19,052
Speaker 4: Oh one hundred and eighty ten eighty is the number

1422
01:10:19,053 --> 01:10:22,172
Speaker 4: to call. Love to hear your thoughts about sexual education

1423
01:10:22,333 --> 01:10:27,012
Speaker 4: within schools. Consultation is out as we speak on potential changes,

1424
01:10:27,532 --> 01:10:31,372
Speaker 4: but also how you approached that conversation with your own children.

1425
01:10:31,853 --> 01:10:34,652
Speaker 2: This Texas says adult entertainment is so easy to get

1426
01:10:34,732 --> 01:10:36,973
Speaker 2: hold of these days. Back in high school, there was

1427
01:10:37,013 --> 01:10:39,612
Speaker 2: an old school videotape that just got handed around between

1428
01:10:39,652 --> 01:10:43,253
Speaker 2: all of us. My copy was greatly disintegrated.

1429
01:10:44,013 --> 01:10:46,372
Speaker 3: All right, all right, thank you for that, Yeah, very much.

1430
01:10:46,572 --> 01:10:49,372
Speaker 4: Coming through all right, it's thirteen to three.

1431
01:10:49,492 --> 01:10:51,812
Speaker 3: Back in a month, the.

1432
01:10:51,893 --> 01:10:54,452
Speaker 1: Issues that affect you and a bit of fun along

1433
01:10:54,492 --> 01:10:57,852
Speaker 1: the way. Matt Heath and Taylor Adams Afternoons News.

1434
01:10:57,772 --> 01:11:01,052
Speaker 4: Talk z EDB News Talks EDB, and we're talking about

1435
01:11:01,133 --> 01:11:05,293
Speaker 4: potential changes to sex education with in school's. Consultation is

1436
01:11:05,333 --> 01:11:07,333
Speaker 4: out at the moment, but keen to hear from you

1437
01:11:07,532 --> 01:11:10,932
Speaker 4: how you had that conversation with your children or how

1438
01:11:11,053 --> 01:11:12,172
Speaker 4: your parents had that conversation.

1439
01:11:12,572 --> 01:11:15,012
Speaker 2: We've got someone on the phone who's fresh from the experience. Brohan,

1440
01:11:15,253 --> 01:11:16,652
Speaker 2: You just graduated from high school.

1441
01:11:17,612 --> 01:11:22,173
Speaker 16: Yeah, yeah, well yeah, I think I think currently, yeah,

1442
01:11:22,213 --> 01:11:23,572
Speaker 16: this I think it's a lilliver bit early. I mean

1443
01:11:23,572 --> 01:11:26,173
Speaker 16: I remember even when I was in primary school about

1444
01:11:26,213 --> 01:11:32,133
Speaker 16: fifteen years ago, like they started off way too early

1445
01:11:32,173 --> 01:11:34,572
Speaker 16: in my opinion. It was stuff that I didn't know.

1446
01:11:34,732 --> 01:11:36,093
Speaker 16: I came home and my parents were all a bit

1447
01:11:36,133 --> 01:11:38,173
Speaker 16: shocked about the stuff I was asking and it was

1448
01:11:38,293 --> 01:11:42,372
Speaker 16: just a bit like I agree that in high school

1449
01:11:42,412 --> 01:11:44,333
Speaker 16: definitely things would be taught and even intermediate, but in

1450
01:11:44,412 --> 01:11:48,053
Speaker 16: primary school, like the previous lady was talking about, it's

1451
01:11:48,133 --> 01:11:48,333
Speaker 16: just a.

1452
01:11:48,333 --> 01:11:49,932
Speaker 3: Bit early, right, Rahana.

1453
01:11:50,013 --> 01:11:52,812
Speaker 2: Do you think from talking to other people your age,

1454
01:11:53,053 --> 01:11:56,532
Speaker 2: that was a specific to your primary school or do

1455
01:11:56,692 --> 01:11:59,892
Speaker 2: you think that was across the board type situation.

1456
01:12:00,973 --> 01:12:03,733
Speaker 16: No, I think it was a cross board carded situation.

1457
01:12:04,853 --> 01:12:07,372
Speaker 2: Without sort of going into too many oh when you do,

1458
01:12:07,532 --> 01:12:09,732
Speaker 2: so what you want? But what what what kind of

1459
01:12:09,732 --> 01:12:12,013
Speaker 2: stuff were you hearing when you you know, when you

1460
01:12:12,053 --> 01:12:13,732
Speaker 2: were when when you were at primary school? And if

1461
01:12:13,772 --> 01:12:15,652
Speaker 2: you say fifteen years ago, how long we were you

1462
01:12:15,692 --> 01:12:18,412
Speaker 2: talking about? When you're when you're five, is that what

1463
01:12:18,532 --> 01:12:19,173
Speaker 2: you're talking about?

1464
01:12:19,333 --> 01:12:22,333
Speaker 16: Well, yeah, I'm nineteen, right.

1465
01:12:22,612 --> 01:12:24,093
Speaker 3: So so you're talking you got it?

1466
01:12:24,293 --> 01:12:26,652
Speaker 2: Right from the start of primary school, did you Rohan,

1467
01:12:26,772 --> 01:12:29,692
Speaker 2: you got some form of sexual education three?

1468
01:12:29,772 --> 01:12:29,972
Speaker 9: First?

1469
01:12:30,013 --> 01:12:30,812
Speaker 17: It was three?

1470
01:12:31,853 --> 01:12:33,772
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, so so year three so you'd have been

1471
01:12:33,772 --> 01:12:34,173
Speaker 3: about eight.

1472
01:12:35,492 --> 01:12:38,772
Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah, yeah, just.

1473
01:12:38,812 --> 01:12:43,372
Speaker 16: Like anatomy, but the amount that we were taught maybe

1474
01:12:43,452 --> 01:12:44,933
Speaker 16: with a little bit too much. I agree that it

1475
01:12:44,973 --> 01:12:47,933
Speaker 16: should be introduced, but I don't think it should be

1476
01:12:48,053 --> 01:12:53,333
Speaker 16: to the extent that it has been. Like, I don't know,

1477
01:12:53,492 --> 01:12:55,293
Speaker 16: it just I feel like it. You know how in

1478
01:12:55,372 --> 01:12:57,133
Speaker 16: primary school, you know, there's a whole curitious thing. I

1479
01:12:57,133 --> 01:12:58,812
Speaker 16: feel like it's further a situated that kind of thing

1480
01:12:58,812 --> 01:13:00,333
Speaker 16: because it made us scared of the other gender.

1481
01:13:00,973 --> 01:13:01,173
Speaker 11: Yeah.

1482
01:13:01,253 --> 01:13:08,253
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's an interesting one. But but when you say anatomy, as,

1483
01:13:08,372 --> 01:13:11,013
Speaker 2: isn't that I mean, you have the anatomy. That's a

1484
01:13:11,093 --> 01:13:13,053
Speaker 2: normal thing. And there's a lot of Texas have been saying,

1485
01:13:13,093 --> 01:13:15,893
Speaker 2: if you want, you want kids to learn about sexuality

1486
01:13:15,933 --> 01:13:18,972
Speaker 2: on a basis, you know, sex education on a basic level,

1487
01:13:19,053 --> 01:13:20,772
Speaker 2: take them to a farm and you'll see all the

1488
01:13:20,812 --> 01:13:23,772
Speaker 2: anatomy that you'll ever want to see, you know.

1489
01:13:24,293 --> 01:13:26,732
Speaker 3: So is the anatomy such a bad thing to learn about?

1490
01:13:28,572 --> 01:13:28,772
Speaker 9: Yeah?

1491
01:13:28,812 --> 01:13:32,412
Speaker 16: I think rather than telling people what to think, it's

1492
01:13:32,412 --> 01:13:34,293
Speaker 16: more about putting the pieces there would be the more

1493
01:13:34,893 --> 01:13:38,612
Speaker 16: better option, right, kind of being like, hey, this is

1494
01:13:38,652 --> 01:13:41,692
Speaker 16: what goes on, you know, But like like the previous

1495
01:13:41,772 --> 01:13:45,052
Speaker 16: lady was saying, I don't catch your name. Telling people

1496
01:13:45,133 --> 01:13:47,692
Speaker 16: about orientation stuff can be humming.

1497
01:13:47,893 --> 01:13:51,293
Speaker 3: Oh so you got that stuff quite early, did you, Rohan.

1498
01:13:53,133 --> 01:13:54,133
Speaker 11: I feel it was a bit later for.

1499
01:13:54,133 --> 01:13:56,213
Speaker 16: Me because obviously that's a little bits in the media

1500
01:13:56,213 --> 01:14:01,772
Speaker 16: and whatnot. But yeah, even even as slightly older cared

1501
01:14:01,812 --> 01:14:04,172
Speaker 16: it was the confusing I remember friends having younger siblings

1502
01:14:04,412 --> 01:14:07,052
Speaker 16: who were getting taught orientation things and they would definitely

1503
01:14:07,173 --> 01:14:08,172
Speaker 16: very confused to younger.

1504
01:14:07,973 --> 01:14:10,933
Speaker 4: Siblings, right, And what you mentioned, your parents were a

1505
01:14:11,013 --> 01:14:14,732
Speaker 4: bit you know, flabbergasted by the questions you were asking

1506
01:14:15,093 --> 01:14:16,973
Speaker 4: at that point. Did they sit you down to have

1507
01:14:17,053 --> 01:14:20,013
Speaker 4: a conversation from parent to child or what was that

1508
01:14:20,173 --> 01:14:21,372
Speaker 4: response from from that point?

1509
01:14:22,372 --> 01:14:24,492
Speaker 16: So my dad sent me down. But for me, it

1510
01:14:24,612 --> 01:14:27,492
Speaker 16: was more you gave me kind of the you know,

1511
01:14:27,532 --> 01:14:30,133
Speaker 16: the things you see online are a bit faked and

1512
01:14:30,253 --> 01:14:32,372
Speaker 16: things like that. That was more the talk that I got, right,

1513
01:14:33,372 --> 01:14:35,412
Speaker 16: you know, being in the age that I started off

1514
01:14:35,452 --> 01:14:38,293
Speaker 16: with no devices and immediately kind of became very devising.

1515
01:14:38,612 --> 01:14:42,932
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you've come through a really interesting time actually, Yeah,

1516
01:14:43,213 --> 01:14:46,812
Speaker 2: from from just you know, people not having smartphones to

1517
01:14:46,933 --> 01:14:49,253
Speaker 2: everyone having smartphones and having everything right in.

1518
01:14:49,253 --> 01:14:52,532
Speaker 16: Their pockets with my dad's sick and handslip, your phone,

1519
01:14:53,692 --> 01:14:54,293
Speaker 16: my phone.

1520
01:14:57,053 --> 01:14:58,772
Speaker 2: Now I've got a question for you for for what

1521
01:14:58,893 --> 01:15:00,532
Speaker 2: your experience that you went through and you think it

1522
01:15:00,572 --> 01:15:02,732
Speaker 2: was a bit early, but have you turned out okay? Rahan,

1523
01:15:02,973 --> 01:15:07,253
Speaker 2: you you feel that that that you you've been scarred

1524
01:15:07,333 --> 01:15:08,652
Speaker 2: at all or you okay?

1525
01:15:10,853 --> 01:15:12,772
Speaker 16: I it's hard to answer that question really.

1526
01:15:12,812 --> 01:15:15,092
Speaker 3: I think I think my parents crazy questions.

1527
01:15:15,173 --> 01:15:16,852
Speaker 16: I think a lot of parents might not know how

1528
01:15:16,893 --> 01:15:17,772
Speaker 16: to handle that situation.

1529
01:15:18,013 --> 01:15:20,772
Speaker 18: Yeah, obvious that as well, especially if you're the first kid.

1530
01:15:20,772 --> 01:15:22,013
Speaker 3: You know, it's yeah, like.

1531
01:15:23,492 --> 01:15:26,412
Speaker 16: It really depends on how the questions that you ask

1532
01:15:26,492 --> 01:15:28,053
Speaker 16: when you got home and then how they handle it.

1533
01:15:28,093 --> 01:15:28,772
Speaker 11: If you ask any.

1534
01:15:28,692 --> 01:15:31,532
Speaker 2: Questions when you got home, yeah and so and so

1535
01:15:31,612 --> 01:15:33,532
Speaker 2: your parents backed up some of the stuff that you

1536
01:15:33,692 --> 01:15:35,253
Speaker 2: you know, you came home and they asked questions, and

1537
01:15:35,333 --> 01:15:37,253
Speaker 2: your parents and gave you gave you the chat.

1538
01:15:38,333 --> 01:15:38,532
Speaker 12: Yeah.

1539
01:15:38,612 --> 01:15:40,612
Speaker 16: Yeah, like it was quite a supportive environment. That was

1540
01:15:40,652 --> 01:15:43,293
Speaker 16: that was nice to you know, get told what I

1541
01:15:43,333 --> 01:15:45,173
Speaker 16: needed to but also not go too much into detail

1542
01:15:45,173 --> 01:15:45,732
Speaker 16: at a young age.

1543
01:15:45,772 --> 01:15:52,612
Speaker 3: Haarling yeah, awkward. Yes, yep, that says at all.

1544
01:15:52,853 --> 01:15:54,732
Speaker 2: But by the by the gap of your answer, the

1545
01:15:54,933 --> 01:15:57,973
Speaker 2: the the awkwardity, it still seems like it sits with you.

1546
01:16:00,812 --> 01:16:02,732
Speaker 4: Rohan, thank you very much for giving us a buzz.

1547
01:16:03,412 --> 01:16:06,572
Speaker 4: A couple of texts to the news guys, I'm sixty five,

1548
01:16:06,692 --> 01:16:09,612
Speaker 4: got given a purple book with pictures and basic words.

1549
01:16:09,652 --> 01:16:12,612
Speaker 4: In those days, babies came after marriage, so I was

1550
01:16:12,652 --> 01:16:16,893
Speaker 4: intrigued when my older brother had married in May and baby.

1551
01:16:16,692 --> 01:16:19,973
Speaker 3: Born in September. Can't remember how they explain that. I

1552
01:16:20,093 --> 01:16:20,612
Speaker 3: heard that wrong.

1553
01:16:20,652 --> 01:16:23,012
Speaker 2: I thought I'm sixty five, got given a purple book

1554
01:16:23,093 --> 01:16:24,692
Speaker 2: with the pictures. I thought they were saying they were.

1555
01:16:24,652 --> 01:16:27,053
Speaker 3: Just learning it now at sixty five, just going wrong

1556
01:16:27,093 --> 01:16:28,333
Speaker 3: with that. They've just got the book now.

1557
01:16:28,812 --> 01:16:32,372
Speaker 2: But yeah, I mean, look there, it's amazing that the

1558
01:16:32,652 --> 01:16:35,892
Speaker 2: small gestation experiences you know, that people have when they're

1559
01:16:36,133 --> 01:16:38,732
Speaker 2: involved in Sudent churches. Yeah, you know, get married and

1560
01:16:38,812 --> 01:16:40,492
Speaker 2: then the baby comes out.

1561
01:16:40,732 --> 01:16:43,972
Speaker 3: You know, wow, what a miracle. Exactly healthy baby after

1562
01:16:44,053 --> 01:16:44,532
Speaker 3: three months.

1563
01:16:45,812 --> 01:16:48,852
Speaker 4: The sticks to says, guys, it's important that kids know

1564
01:16:49,053 --> 01:16:51,213
Speaker 4: the facts. Would you rather they heard it second hand

1565
01:16:51,452 --> 01:16:55,412
Speaker 4: in the playground or the correct advice from a prescribed curriculum.

1566
01:16:55,853 --> 01:16:58,093
Speaker 2: Yeah, well it just I just I guess the question

1567
01:16:58,293 --> 01:17:00,452
Speaker 2: is what's on the curriculum though, Yeah, you know it's

1568
01:17:00,532 --> 01:17:04,173
Speaker 2: prescribed by who and what's on it?

1569
01:17:04,372 --> 01:17:04,532
Speaker 11: Yep?

1570
01:17:04,692 --> 01:17:05,052
Speaker 3: Exactly.

1571
01:17:05,133 --> 01:17:08,253
Speaker 4: Oh eight hundred eighty ten eighty is the number to call.

1572
01:17:08,333 --> 01:17:09,852
Speaker 4: I love to hear from you on this. We are

1573
01:17:09,973 --> 01:17:12,652
Speaker 4: going to pick it back up after the three o'clock news.

1574
01:17:13,532 --> 01:17:17,372
Speaker 4: Keen to hear your thoughts on the consultation about sexual education,

1575
01:17:17,532 --> 01:17:20,852
Speaker 4: what you know about what they teach kids in school

1576
01:17:20,933 --> 01:17:23,612
Speaker 4: and high school, and also how you were taught about

1577
01:17:23,692 --> 01:17:26,492
Speaker 4: the birds and the bees and sexual education, where your

1578
01:17:26,612 --> 01:17:29,173
Speaker 4: parents had that moment where they set you down and said,

1579
01:17:29,213 --> 01:17:30,092
Speaker 4: this is how it all works.

1580
01:17:31,093 --> 01:17:33,173
Speaker 3: Love to hear some super awkward stories, if you got them.

1581
01:17:33,173 --> 01:17:34,892
Speaker 3: We're also going to hear from Acauler, who was involved

1582
01:17:34,933 --> 01:17:37,532
Speaker 3: in a sex head program called The Big Weekend. YEP,

1583
01:17:37,652 --> 01:17:39,852
Speaker 3: looking forward to that this one Giday.

1584
01:17:39,893 --> 01:17:40,013
Speaker 19: Matt.

1585
01:17:40,133 --> 01:17:43,612
Speaker 4: I've got five grandchildren age seven to fourteen. All are

1586
01:17:43,772 --> 01:17:47,293
Speaker 4: very well schooled at home re relationships, respect, body changes

1587
01:17:47,333 --> 01:17:50,932
Speaker 4: and sex and growing up. The other thing we've focused

1588
01:17:50,973 --> 01:17:54,492
Speaker 4: on is abuse by other people. What to do, what

1589
01:17:54,652 --> 01:17:56,253
Speaker 4: not to be a shamed to your parents in New

1590
01:17:56,333 --> 01:17:59,173
Speaker 4: Zealand is the worst out of ten OECD countries for

1591
01:17:59,412 --> 01:18:03,933
Speaker 4: elder abuse. Homeschooling has certainly worked out pretty well for

1592
01:18:04,093 --> 01:18:07,452
Speaker 4: them and all of those bits of information resex head

1593
01:18:07,772 --> 01:18:08,812
Speaker 4: was taught by the parents.

1594
01:18:08,933 --> 01:18:09,612
Speaker 3: Thank you very much.

1595
01:18:09,732 --> 01:18:13,492
Speaker 4: Keep those texts coming through. But New Sport and Weather on.

1596
01:18:13,853 --> 01:18:17,053
Speaker 4: It's way great to have your company as always it

1597
01:18:17,293 --> 01:18:20,213
Speaker 4: is for minutes to three listening to matt and Tyler.

1598
01:18:20,572 --> 01:18:21,893
Speaker 3: Very very good afternoon to you.

1599
01:18:33,812 --> 01:18:34,213
Speaker 19: Come on.

1600
01:18:41,013 --> 01:18:45,293
Speaker 1: Your new homes are instateful and entertaining talk. It's Mattie

1601
01:18:45,572 --> 01:18:48,812
Speaker 1: and Taylor Adams afternoons on News Talk.

1602
01:18:48,772 --> 01:18:52,372
Speaker 3: Sebby afternoon to you, welcome back to the program.

1603
01:18:52,492 --> 01:18:56,133
Speaker 4: Been having a great discussion about sexual education on the

1604
01:18:56,333 --> 01:19:00,533
Speaker 4: back of consultation is now open to get New Zealander's

1605
01:19:00,612 --> 01:19:04,452
Speaker 4: thoughts on how sex is taught within our schools. And

1606
01:19:04,572 --> 01:19:07,253
Speaker 4: we've been hearing some great stories about the birds and

1607
01:19:07,293 --> 01:19:09,212
Speaker 4: the bees conversation that you you head with your.

1608
01:19:09,173 --> 01:19:10,333
Speaker 3: Kids or vice versa.

1609
01:19:10,572 --> 01:19:12,213
Speaker 2: Yeah, and we had Penny who was caller who said

1610
01:19:12,213 --> 01:19:14,892
Speaker 2: the best place to give your kids the big chat

1611
01:19:15,053 --> 01:19:16,612
Speaker 2: is in the car because they can't get out this

1612
01:19:16,732 --> 01:19:17,693
Speaker 2: text of disagrees.

1613
01:19:18,013 --> 01:19:20,093
Speaker 3: Oh gosh, telling the car. I remember my mom did that.

1614
01:19:20,973 --> 01:19:25,893
Speaker 3: I didn't go anywhere with her for years after that traumatic.

1615
01:19:26,213 --> 01:19:27,572
Speaker 2: You may be able to trap them in the car

1616
01:19:27,692 --> 01:19:29,412
Speaker 2: for the chat, but they may not want to get

1617
01:19:29,412 --> 01:19:32,173
Speaker 2: into the car with you ever. Again, we were talking

1618
01:19:32,213 --> 01:19:34,612
Speaker 2: before about the you know, a great way to start

1619
01:19:34,812 --> 01:19:37,452
Speaker 2: the conversation if you want to, or to just get

1620
01:19:37,492 --> 01:19:40,013
Speaker 2: down to the straight biology of it. As farms, if

1621
01:19:40,013 --> 01:19:42,652
Speaker 2: you grow up on a farm, then you know a

1622
01:19:42,732 --> 01:19:47,172
Speaker 2: lot about sex pretty early on. Yes, because the animals

1623
01:19:47,213 --> 01:19:51,173
Speaker 2: are doing it. This person says, bulls jump cows at

1624
01:19:51,293 --> 01:19:54,253
Speaker 2: mating mate, not generally cows jumps.

1625
01:19:54,333 --> 01:19:55,693
Speaker 3: Yeah, mate, I was saying.

1626
01:19:55,812 --> 01:19:58,812
Speaker 2: From the kids perspective when I said that before, Hey daddy,

1627
01:19:58,893 --> 01:20:02,053
Speaker 2: why is that cow on the other cow's back? What

1628
01:20:02,213 --> 01:20:06,372
Speaker 2: I wasn't I'm well aware Greg him up at it's

1629
01:20:06,452 --> 01:20:09,572
Speaker 2: the bulls doing that whatever, But I was just saying

1630
01:20:09,612 --> 01:20:10,492
Speaker 2: that a kid wouldn't know that.

1631
01:20:10,572 --> 01:20:12,253
Speaker 3: All right, we know how it works. I let that

1632
01:20:12,333 --> 01:20:14,692
Speaker 3: weeks ago. I'm pretty sure I know how it works. Yeah,

1633
01:20:15,213 --> 01:20:17,412
Speaker 3: I read it in a book somewhere. I'm pretty sure.

1634
01:20:18,093 --> 01:20:21,333
Speaker 3: I'm pretty sure that's the ball anyway. So anyway, I

1635
01:20:21,333 --> 01:20:23,333
Speaker 3: would love to hear your call, your thoughts on this.

1636
01:20:23,652 --> 01:20:28,652
Speaker 3: E one hundred and eighty ten A pure How are

1637
01:20:28,692 --> 01:20:31,492
Speaker 3: you all right? Just having a little problem with the phone?

1638
01:20:31,572 --> 01:20:31,732
Speaker 16: There?

1639
01:20:32,452 --> 01:20:35,612
Speaker 3: Can you do that one? Where's my phone? How are

1640
01:20:35,652 --> 01:20:37,012
Speaker 3: you sure?

1641
01:20:37,133 --> 01:20:37,412
Speaker 11: Guys?

1642
01:20:37,452 --> 01:20:37,812
Speaker 7: How are you?

1643
01:20:37,853 --> 01:20:40,173
Speaker 18: I just want to point out, based on the last caller,

1644
01:20:40,572 --> 01:20:42,852
Speaker 18: I have seen bulls jump balls though?

1645
01:20:43,133 --> 01:20:47,173
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, thank you for saving us on

1646
01:20:47,253 --> 01:20:50,612
Speaker 2: that week Okay, yeah have you ever seen cows jump balls?

1647
01:20:50,612 --> 01:20:50,772
Speaker 7: Though?

1648
01:20:53,053 --> 01:20:55,452
Speaker 18: Well, I'm from uplaws made anything that happen, but I

1649
01:20:55,572 --> 01:20:59,293
Speaker 18: haven't seen it. Hey, god, it's just just just to know.

1650
01:20:59,572 --> 01:21:03,732
Speaker 18: I was involved with a wee project called The Big Weekend,

1651
01:21:04,333 --> 01:21:06,972
Speaker 18: and I heard one of your callers talk about sitting

1652
01:21:07,013 --> 01:21:09,692
Speaker 18: in the car, and I had the privilege of working

1653
01:21:09,772 --> 01:21:13,452
Speaker 18: with I think one of your broadcasters, Petra Vegas, a

1654
01:21:13,732 --> 01:21:14,932
Speaker 18: very very talented woman.

1655
01:21:15,173 --> 01:21:17,093
Speaker 11: Yeah, and we did a thing.

1656
01:21:17,612 --> 01:21:20,093
Speaker 18: Yeah, yeah, great news, Geander. We did a thing called

1657
01:21:20,133 --> 01:21:22,932
Speaker 18: The Big Weekend and we just found it really worked

1658
01:21:22,973 --> 01:21:25,812
Speaker 18: because of that dynamic of you're not steering the kid

1659
01:21:25,893 --> 01:21:29,692
Speaker 18: in the face. And it's actually on Spotify and it's

1660
01:21:29,812 --> 01:21:32,412
Speaker 18: free and it may be something that you'll callers could

1661
01:21:32,572 --> 01:21:37,052
Speaker 18: utilize just to start the conversation. It is quite long,

1662
01:21:37,213 --> 01:21:39,173
Speaker 18: so if you're going to go around to McDonald's you're

1663
01:21:39,173 --> 01:21:41,572
Speaker 18: going to have to go around fifty times. But it's

1664
01:21:41,652 --> 01:21:45,572
Speaker 18: like it's like if you're going to Totle Paul and

1665
01:21:45,812 --> 01:21:47,892
Speaker 18: say and you warn them and say, look, we're going

1666
01:21:47,973 --> 01:21:50,452
Speaker 18: to play this, you get a chance to talk about it.

1667
01:21:50,732 --> 01:21:53,652
Speaker 18: And yeah, it was it was a really good project,

1668
01:21:53,692 --> 01:21:56,372
Speaker 18: which I think could be helpful to some of your listeners.

1669
01:21:56,772 --> 01:22:00,132
Speaker 3: So it's a podcast, the equivalent of a podcast, feel.

1670
01:22:00,253 --> 01:22:02,612
Speaker 18: Yeah, it was actually in the old days it was

1671
01:22:02,692 --> 01:22:05,412
Speaker 18: on CD. So it's just it was through the parenting

1672
01:22:05,532 --> 01:22:11,093
Speaker 18: place in Green Lane and we made this recording and

1673
01:22:11,372 --> 01:22:14,612
Speaker 18: gave it out to people and the big weekend and

1674
01:22:14,732 --> 01:22:18,772
Speaker 18: it's this isn't a cell bro, It's free, you know,

1675
01:22:19,013 --> 01:22:21,532
Speaker 18: so you can just download it off Spotify. I haven't

1676
01:22:21,532 --> 01:22:25,492
Speaker 18: listened to it first yourself, but would have been really

1677
01:22:25,612 --> 01:22:29,213
Speaker 18: helpful in my day, but could be really helpful for

1678
01:22:29,333 --> 01:22:30,012
Speaker 18: some of your listeners.

1679
01:22:30,133 --> 01:22:31,893
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm just having a look at it out here. So,

1680
01:22:32,213 --> 01:22:34,732
Speaker 4: I mean there's a whole branch of chapters if you

1681
01:22:34,812 --> 01:22:38,492
Speaker 4: were or areas that you go through. But what has

1682
01:22:38,572 --> 01:22:41,093
Speaker 4: Sek's attitudes about seeks? Let's talk about porn? How do

1683
01:22:41,173 --> 01:22:42,732
Speaker 4: you how would a parent bring that up if they're

1684
01:22:42,732 --> 01:22:45,052
Speaker 4: going to put that on the car. What's the intro

1685
01:22:45,293 --> 01:22:47,452
Speaker 4: that ideally the parent would give thee kid before they

1686
01:22:47,492 --> 01:22:47,852
Speaker 4: hit play.

1687
01:22:49,732 --> 01:22:50,293
Speaker 12: Well, if that.

1688
01:22:50,412 --> 01:22:53,372
Speaker 18: Depends on the relationship, I think, But I think you

1689
01:22:53,532 --> 01:22:55,652
Speaker 18: just have to be honest with kids and say, look,

1690
01:22:56,452 --> 01:22:59,052
Speaker 18: this is something we have to go through. It's based

1691
01:22:59,093 --> 01:23:04,253
Speaker 18: around keeping yourself safe. I've found this bit of information

1692
01:23:04,452 --> 01:23:06,892
Speaker 18: that could be helpful. We can stop at any time,

1693
01:23:07,013 --> 01:23:11,013
Speaker 18: but you know you mean to me, you're awesome, but

1694
01:23:11,452 --> 01:23:15,612
Speaker 18: so we need to have this conversation and I'm shouting McDonald's.

1695
01:23:15,133 --> 01:23:15,452
Speaker 12: Let's go.

1696
01:23:18,053 --> 01:23:18,572
Speaker 3: From then on.

1697
01:23:19,253 --> 01:23:23,293
Speaker 2: The two things are associated. I can imagine a step

1698
01:23:23,572 --> 01:23:26,932
Speaker 2: further than that, because basically, you've decided on someone describing

1699
01:23:26,973 --> 01:23:28,932
Speaker 2: it in a way that you approve of. You're there

1700
01:23:28,973 --> 01:23:30,932
Speaker 2: beside them in the car, so you can answer any

1701
01:23:31,013 --> 01:23:34,893
Speaker 2: questions as it goes. And so it's kind of I

1702
01:23:34,973 --> 01:23:38,772
Speaker 2: guess lowering making it easier for yourself. Yeah, I mean

1703
01:23:38,893 --> 01:23:41,933
Speaker 2: you could record yourself doing the chat and then and

1704
01:23:42,013 --> 01:23:43,013
Speaker 2: then play it back to them.

1705
01:23:43,133 --> 01:23:44,692
Speaker 3: Yeah, well it would make it easier.

1706
01:23:44,853 --> 01:23:47,852
Speaker 2: Yeah, But it is interesting because there's someone seeing like

1707
01:23:48,013 --> 01:23:49,772
Speaker 2: humans have been doing this for a very long time.

1708
01:23:50,053 --> 01:23:53,173
Speaker 2: You know, we've been Homo sapiens for nearly three hundred

1709
01:23:53,253 --> 01:23:54,492
Speaker 2: thousand years that this person.

1710
01:23:54,853 --> 01:23:57,532
Speaker 3: Do you actually really need to have the chat about it?

1711
01:23:57,853 --> 01:23:58,772
Speaker 3: It is interesting that.

1712
01:23:58,933 --> 01:24:01,892
Speaker 2: We've got to the stage where we're so awkward about

1713
01:24:01,933 --> 01:24:05,333
Speaker 2: it because we're biological. We're not so different from the

1714
01:24:05,412 --> 01:24:06,372
Speaker 2: cows and the bulls, are we?

1715
01:24:06,572 --> 01:24:06,772
Speaker 11: Yeah?

1716
01:24:06,853 --> 01:24:08,333
Speaker 3: Can't we just say this is how it works?

1717
01:24:08,412 --> 01:24:08,732
Speaker 6: All right?

1718
01:24:09,053 --> 01:24:09,492
Speaker 3: Where you go?

1719
01:24:09,772 --> 01:24:11,253
Speaker 4: Well, if we don't do it, that's the end of us,

1720
01:24:11,333 --> 01:24:13,293
Speaker 4: isn't it. Oh eight one hundred eighty ten eighty is

1721
01:24:13,333 --> 01:24:15,852
Speaker 4: the number to call Peel. Thank you very much, love

1722
01:24:15,973 --> 01:24:18,333
Speaker 4: chatting with you. It's called the Big Weekend. Petre Vagust

1723
01:24:18,692 --> 01:24:21,812
Speaker 4: and Peel is well on that. It's well worth checking

1724
01:24:21,853 --> 01:24:23,612
Speaker 4: out if you are ready for the birds and the

1725
01:24:23,652 --> 01:24:25,012
Speaker 4: bees conversation with your children.

1726
01:24:25,293 --> 01:24:27,052
Speaker 3: It is twelve past three.

1727
01:24:27,053 --> 01:24:30,852
Speaker 2: This Texas says all cows or Cattler bisexual Matt get

1728
01:24:30,933 --> 01:24:31,492
Speaker 2: with the program.

1729
01:24:31,612 --> 01:24:36,893
Speaker 3: You big it? Okay, you can think there, you know, afternoon?

1730
01:24:36,973 --> 01:24:40,093
Speaker 3: It is quarter past three? Was that Pete and Peel, Peel?

1731
01:24:40,372 --> 01:24:43,372
Speaker 3: It was I was talking to a celebrity, Yeah, big fan.

1732
01:24:43,452 --> 01:24:44,013
Speaker 3: I didn't even know.

1733
01:24:44,253 --> 01:24:44,852
Speaker 9: No, me neither.

1734
01:24:45,532 --> 01:24:46,933
Speaker 4: I think we both can you figured it out at

1735
01:24:46,973 --> 01:24:49,053
Speaker 4: the same time, Pete and Peel, Peter and Peel, Yeah,

1736
01:24:49,293 --> 01:24:51,972
Speaker 4: he's a good meg, great new Zylander. Oh one hundred

1737
01:24:51,973 --> 01:24:53,812
Speaker 4: and eighty ten out of eighty. We are talking about

1738
01:24:53,893 --> 01:24:58,532
Speaker 4: six education. The Education Minister, Erica Stamford, has opened it

1739
01:24:58,612 --> 01:25:02,052
Speaker 4: up for consultation on what the framework is, but we've

1740
01:25:02,133 --> 01:25:03,812
Speaker 4: taken it a bit wider that we want to hear

1741
01:25:03,853 --> 01:25:06,412
Speaker 4: your stories about how you talked to your kids about it,

1742
01:25:06,492 --> 01:25:08,133
Speaker 4: and how your parents talk to you.

1743
01:25:08,412 --> 01:25:11,972
Speaker 2: And I'm taking absolute grilling here. People met you muppet

1744
01:25:12,812 --> 01:25:15,532
Speaker 2: Bulls can't jump cows. They can barely get all three,

1745
01:25:15,853 --> 01:25:20,133
Speaker 2: all four legs off the ground. Yeah, okay, we know.

1746
01:25:20,412 --> 01:25:22,572
Speaker 4: We know how it works on the farm with balls

1747
01:25:22,652 --> 01:25:25,812
Speaker 4: and cows and bees and birds and sheeps and others.

1748
01:25:25,893 --> 01:25:27,732
Speaker 3: With a run up you we're going to a ball

1749
01:25:27,772 --> 01:25:29,293
Speaker 3: could get over a cow with a big enough down

1750
01:25:29,293 --> 01:25:33,293
Speaker 3: a hill, big enough run up. I've seen the powerful

1751
01:25:33,372 --> 01:25:34,812
Speaker 3: legs going. They could jump a cow.

1752
01:25:34,893 --> 01:25:36,412
Speaker 4: I reckon, they could get at least half a meter.

1753
01:25:37,692 --> 01:25:41,053
Speaker 3: And you have you have you done the chat to

1754
01:25:41,133 --> 01:25:41,652
Speaker 3: four kids?

1755
01:25:42,652 --> 01:25:45,213
Speaker 6: I haven't done the chat, but they gave me the chat.

1756
01:25:46,372 --> 01:25:49,372
Speaker 6: I mean they're adults now. My grandchildren are about the

1757
01:25:49,372 --> 01:25:52,652
Speaker 6: same age as they were then, but I picked them

1758
01:25:52,732 --> 01:25:55,213
Speaker 6: up from school. We had four children very close in

1759
01:25:55,333 --> 01:25:59,213
Speaker 6: age at the same primary school, and I was driving home.

1760
01:25:59,333 --> 01:26:03,293
Speaker 6: They were on the back seats and I heard where

1761
01:26:03,412 --> 01:26:07,892
Speaker 6: the eldest were twin girls. Heard the girls discussing their

1762
01:26:08,772 --> 01:26:12,732
Speaker 6: lunch time chat and it was all sort of very quiet,

1763
01:26:12,853 --> 01:26:16,812
Speaker 6: just chatting in the back seat. And one of them said, oh,

1764
01:26:17,133 --> 01:26:21,852
Speaker 6: so embarrassing. Mum and dad have done it four times.

1765
01:26:22,692 --> 01:26:22,932
Speaker 3: Wow.

1766
01:26:23,133 --> 01:26:28,012
Speaker 6: And their brother, who was sixteen months younger, said, don't

1767
01:26:28,093 --> 01:26:34,692
Speaker 6: be silly, No, only did at three your twins, because

1768
01:26:34,732 --> 01:26:38,333
Speaker 6: I was laughing, and that was their six education. No

1769
01:26:38,492 --> 01:26:41,293
Speaker 6: idea where it came from, but from well, from the

1770
01:26:41,452 --> 01:26:43,732
Speaker 6: playground obviously, right.

1771
01:26:44,013 --> 01:26:46,253
Speaker 2: And you think there was a good place to hear

1772
01:26:46,333 --> 01:26:49,172
Speaker 2: it or do you think there would be better.

1773
01:26:49,853 --> 01:26:51,933
Speaker 6: I never discussed it, never went any through that, and

1774
01:26:52,013 --> 01:26:54,652
Speaker 6: we were very open at times about what I've had.

1775
01:26:54,692 --> 01:26:58,772
Speaker 6: Their questions would answer it, but I just thought that

1776
01:26:59,013 --> 01:27:01,173
Speaker 6: the innocence innocence.

1777
01:27:00,732 --> 01:27:03,812
Speaker 2: Of it was just, yeah, that's beautiful. Thank you, Thank

1778
01:27:03,812 --> 01:27:07,412
Speaker 2: you so much for your call and appreciate that. Uh Tom,

1779
01:27:07,812 --> 01:27:09,052
Speaker 2: you want to take back to the farm.

1780
01:27:10,293 --> 01:27:14,652
Speaker 7: Make it back to the farm hair gum, very good. Hey, look, sorry,

1781
01:27:14,692 --> 01:27:17,852
Speaker 7: share a story you said before that time. You know

1782
01:27:18,013 --> 01:27:19,812
Speaker 7: farmers are lucky. They get to see their kids will

1783
01:27:19,853 --> 01:27:21,812
Speaker 7: sort of, you know, seeing it all the time, what's

1784
01:27:21,893 --> 01:27:25,293
Speaker 7: going on? Oh, we had a dog that got a

1785
01:27:25,333 --> 01:27:29,093
Speaker 7: lot of bitches at the time come around and I

1786
01:27:29,253 --> 01:27:30,852
Speaker 7: just always just do the job in front of the

1787
01:27:30,933 --> 01:27:33,333
Speaker 7: kids and it didn't worry me. And one day my

1788
01:27:33,452 --> 01:27:36,253
Speaker 7: daughter was with me, my young daughter, and she said, Daddy, daddy,

1789
01:27:36,293 --> 01:27:39,412
Speaker 7: what are they doing? And I said, they're making babies.

1790
01:27:39,452 --> 01:27:42,973
Speaker 7: Bathe them there can they have little puppies And she

1791
01:27:43,173 --> 01:27:45,012
Speaker 7: was over the moon, and then all of a sudden

1792
01:27:45,013 --> 01:27:47,613
Speaker 7: her face was pale light and she looked in discussed

1793
01:27:47,652 --> 01:27:49,973
Speaker 7: and turned around to me and said, is that what

1794
01:27:50,093 --> 01:27:50,933
Speaker 7: you and mummy do?

1795
01:27:54,452 --> 01:27:55,133
Speaker 18: That's not all right?

1796
01:27:55,412 --> 01:27:55,612
Speaker 11: Yeah?

1797
01:27:56,293 --> 01:28:01,692
Speaker 3: And he said no, exactly essentially, yes, pretty much pretty much.

1798
01:28:01,772 --> 01:28:04,972
Speaker 3: That's out works. Oh good text, here are you like this? Man?

1799
01:28:05,133 --> 01:28:07,372
Speaker 4: I have worked on a farm for twenty years and

1800
01:28:07,412 --> 01:28:10,612
Speaker 4: I've seen a freezer ball jump over a fence twice.

1801
01:28:10,812 --> 01:28:13,692
Speaker 3: Okay, there you go, so clearly they can get some air.

1802
01:28:13,973 --> 01:28:18,932
Speaker 2: So with downhill run yep, the right conditions, I think

1803
01:28:18,973 --> 01:28:22,333
Speaker 2: a ball could jump over a cow. Yeah, it could happen,

1804
01:28:22,612 --> 01:28:24,772
Speaker 2: but that's not what I meant by a ball jumping

1805
01:28:24,812 --> 01:28:26,732
Speaker 2: a cow. It's good to put that one to bed though.

1806
01:28:26,812 --> 01:28:29,372
Speaker 2: I think that's what we're all worried about. Thank you

1807
01:28:29,612 --> 01:28:32,253
Speaker 2: very much to everyone who called and text on that one.

1808
01:28:32,293 --> 01:28:36,132
Speaker 2: That was a great discussion. But coming up very shortly,

1809
01:28:36,213 --> 01:28:39,213
Speaker 2: we want to have a chat about green washing. This

1810
01:28:39,412 --> 01:28:42,333
Speaker 2: is on the back of glad You know the business

1811
01:28:42,492 --> 01:28:46,052
Speaker 2: very well, Glad Rap etc. They have been stung eight

1812
01:28:46,213 --> 01:28:49,932
Speaker 2: point twenty five million dollars in Australia after they made

1813
01:28:50,013 --> 01:28:52,732
Speaker 2: up some lies about where their bags came from. They

1814
01:28:52,812 --> 01:28:55,293
Speaker 2: said it was recycled ocean plastic and it was none

1815
01:28:55,372 --> 01:28:56,732
Speaker 2: of the sort. So we're gonna have a chat to

1816
01:28:56,772 --> 01:28:59,612
Speaker 2: consume in New Zealand very shortly. Is there anything more

1817
01:28:59,853 --> 01:29:02,412
Speaker 2: dirty than green washing? I want to hear your examples

1818
01:29:02,452 --> 01:29:06,133
Speaker 2: of it, because it's a revolting practice to play on

1819
01:29:06,213 --> 01:29:09,692
Speaker 2: people's emotions and fears and make them feel like they're

1820
01:29:09,772 --> 01:29:12,093
Speaker 2: doing something good. If they believe in that and they're

1821
01:29:12,093 --> 01:29:14,532
Speaker 2: doing something good, and it turns out you're just lying

1822
01:29:14,612 --> 01:29:16,452
Speaker 2: to them like this company did that.

1823
01:29:16,692 --> 01:29:20,052
Speaker 3: That is just so dirty certainly as dirty green washes.

1824
01:29:20,253 --> 01:29:22,812
Speaker 4: Oh one hundred eighty ten eighty is the number to call.

1825
01:29:22,853 --> 01:29:25,492
Speaker 4: But coming up very shortly, we chat to consumer in

1826
01:29:25,692 --> 01:29:32,892
Speaker 4: z about dirty old green washing twenty past three, Matt.

1827
01:29:32,772 --> 01:29:35,893
Speaker 1: Heath and Tyler Adams afternoons call oh eight hundred and

1828
01:29:35,933 --> 01:29:38,052
Speaker 1: eighty ten eighty on News Talk ZB.

1829
01:29:38,452 --> 01:29:41,253
Speaker 4: Good Afternoon twenty two pass three and let's talk about

1830
01:29:41,253 --> 01:29:43,452
Speaker 4: green washing. This on the back of an Australian court

1831
01:29:43,532 --> 01:29:46,852
Speaker 4: has ordered glad owner Clorox to pay eight point twenty

1832
01:29:46,893 --> 01:29:50,972
Speaker 4: five million dollars for fossil more misleading representations about bags

1833
01:29:51,013 --> 01:29:54,652
Speaker 4: partly made or of recycled ocean plastic. The offending garbage

1834
01:29:54,692 --> 01:29:57,893
Speaker 4: bags were partly made of Indonesian plastic source from communities

1835
01:29:58,093 --> 01:30:00,932
Speaker 4: that were miles away from any shoreline. To chat about

1836
01:30:00,933 --> 01:30:03,772
Speaker 4: this more, we're joined by Rebecca Styles Consumer end Z

1837
01:30:04,053 --> 01:30:07,412
Speaker 4: Investigative team leader Rebecca Good afternoon.

1838
01:30:08,412 --> 01:30:10,652
Speaker 3: Hi, Yes, any relation to Harry Styles?

1839
01:30:12,253 --> 01:30:14,013
Speaker 6: I wish.

1840
01:30:15,133 --> 01:30:19,133
Speaker 3: Hey bigger stars. What is green washing?

1841
01:30:20,452 --> 01:30:23,612
Speaker 14: So basically greenwashing is a misleading claim under the Fair

1842
01:30:23,692 --> 01:30:27,173
Speaker 14: Trading Act. So, in particularly for greenwashing, it's a product

1843
01:30:27,213 --> 01:30:30,133
Speaker 14: that makes itself appear better for the environment than other

1844
01:30:30,173 --> 01:30:31,492
Speaker 14: similar products on the shelves.

1845
01:30:32,093 --> 01:30:34,572
Speaker 2: And what are the punishments of a company is caught

1846
01:30:34,652 --> 01:30:35,293
Speaker 2: green washing?

1847
01:30:36,612 --> 01:30:39,372
Speaker 14: Well, for New Zealand's penalties are actually quite light in

1848
01:30:39,452 --> 01:30:42,892
Speaker 14: comparison to the Big Pine that Floric Scott. So under

1849
01:30:42,933 --> 01:30:46,333
Speaker 14: the Fair Trading Act it's six hundred thousand dollars fine.

1850
01:30:47,213 --> 01:30:50,093
Speaker 14: So there's quite light for it, especially for these big

1851
01:30:50,213 --> 01:30:52,932
Speaker 14: multi national companies, and it's not much of a deterrent

1852
01:30:53,053 --> 01:30:57,333
Speaker 14: to stop green washing. So we would just support a

1853
01:30:57,412 --> 01:31:00,333
Speaker 14: regulator upping those fines. And upping the fines mean that

1854
01:31:00,452 --> 01:31:02,532
Speaker 14: it's more rough while for their time and energy to

1855
01:31:02,572 --> 01:31:06,452
Speaker 14: actually take these prosecutions, so that it becomes a bigger

1856
01:31:06,492 --> 01:31:07,692
Speaker 14: de terrance for these companies.

1857
01:31:08,652 --> 01:31:10,932
Speaker 2: And is it prevalent in New Zealand? Are you seeing

1858
01:31:11,093 --> 01:31:15,213
Speaker 2: more of it? Is it something that's that's growing as

1859
01:31:15,213 --> 01:31:15,893
Speaker 2: a problem.

1860
01:31:17,333 --> 01:31:19,333
Speaker 14: In someway That feels a bit insidious because I think

1861
01:31:19,652 --> 01:31:24,093
Speaker 14: any walk along the supermarket aisles, you'll come across sort

1862
01:31:24,133 --> 01:31:28,333
Speaker 14: of meaningless terms things like green and natural and environmentally friendly,

1863
01:31:29,293 --> 01:31:33,053
Speaker 14: echo sustainable, there's all sort of these environmental buzzwords but

1864
01:31:33,412 --> 01:31:36,212
Speaker 14: are sort of not backed up or seem pretty meaningless

1865
01:31:36,492 --> 01:31:40,532
Speaker 14: on some products. So it is around that it feels

1866
01:31:40,612 --> 01:31:42,412
Speaker 14: like it's so much of it around at the moment

1867
01:31:42,692 --> 01:31:44,932
Speaker 14: that it's almost, you know, I can't do the slice

1868
01:31:44,973 --> 01:31:45,892
Speaker 14: of the trees type of thing.

1869
01:31:46,732 --> 01:31:49,732
Speaker 2: Is there a version of green washing that isn't exactly illegal,

1870
01:31:49,853 --> 01:31:52,612
Speaker 2: but it's still gross in a way like safe. For example,

1871
01:31:52,652 --> 01:31:55,692
Speaker 2: you're on an airline and they're celebrating their greenness by

1872
01:31:55,772 --> 01:31:59,892
Speaker 2: serving your food with bamboo knives and forks while you're

1873
01:31:59,933 --> 01:32:04,293
Speaker 2: blasting aviation fuel on around the world flight, so they're

1874
01:32:04,333 --> 01:32:07,772
Speaker 2: not it's like almost like a green distraction. It's like,

1875
01:32:07,853 --> 01:32:10,173
Speaker 2: look at the way we're doing this over here, and

1876
01:32:10,253 --> 01:32:13,213
Speaker 2: don't look at what we're doing over there very much.

1877
01:32:13,213 --> 01:32:15,173
Speaker 14: It feels very much like window dressing, doesn't it.

1878
01:32:15,253 --> 01:32:16,253
Speaker 6: Yeah, And I think uno a.

1879
01:32:16,253 --> 01:32:18,133
Speaker 14: Few years ago I wrote about Any Zealand for their

1880
01:32:18,173 --> 01:32:20,492
Speaker 14: plant based cups, and that's not much good yet.

1881
01:32:20,372 --> 01:32:24,893
Speaker 6: When you're burning all that, really it's a bit of

1882
01:32:24,933 --> 01:32:25,692
Speaker 6: a tot congestion.

1883
01:32:25,893 --> 01:32:27,612
Speaker 14: So it's very much tinkering out of the edges, but

1884
01:32:27,853 --> 01:32:30,053
Speaker 14: not tackling the huge problem of what's being put in

1885
01:32:30,253 --> 01:32:30,692
Speaker 14: still thing.

1886
01:32:30,893 --> 01:32:31,093
Speaker 7: Yeah.

1887
01:32:31,213 --> 01:32:33,732
Speaker 4: Has it got to the point Rebecca where companies they

1888
01:32:34,253 --> 01:32:38,772
Speaker 4: you know, the trust on from consumers to believe that

1889
01:32:38,973 --> 01:32:42,532
Speaker 4: these companies are doing environmental good for the planet or

1890
01:32:42,572 --> 01:32:45,293
Speaker 4: whatever they might be doing. But that trust is just

1891
01:32:45,412 --> 01:32:48,093
Speaker 4: completely lost now and most consumers will look at this

1892
01:32:48,133 --> 01:32:50,652
Speaker 4: stuff and say, I think that's probably nonsense, because I've

1893
01:32:50,692 --> 01:32:51,973
Speaker 4: seen so many examples of that.

1894
01:32:53,093 --> 01:32:55,213
Speaker 14: Yeah, I mean you should be able to trust what's

1895
01:32:55,293 --> 01:32:57,213
Speaker 14: on the label. You know, you expect a bit of

1896
01:32:57,253 --> 01:32:59,932
Speaker 14: puffer eat with marketing and stuff, but essentially the essence

1897
01:32:59,973 --> 01:33:02,133
Speaker 14: of what's said on products should be true and you

1898
01:33:02,173 --> 01:33:05,532
Speaker 14: should be able to rely on it. And there has

1899
01:33:05,612 --> 01:33:08,253
Speaker 14: been calls overseas for these green claims there should be

1900
01:33:08,412 --> 01:33:11,092
Speaker 14: checked before they go on to market so that consumers

1901
01:33:11,133 --> 01:33:14,892
Speaker 14: can be very assured. Because it's also a competitive advantage

1902
01:33:14,893 --> 01:33:18,452
Speaker 14: if you're essentially misleading customers and earning more money on

1903
01:33:18,492 --> 01:33:20,253
Speaker 14: the back of that misleading claiming. You know, it's an

1904
01:33:20,253 --> 01:33:23,692
Speaker 14: anti competitive behavior. So it's good for other businesses and

1905
01:33:23,853 --> 01:33:25,053
Speaker 14: for consumers.

1906
01:33:26,213 --> 01:33:28,772
Speaker 2: Because sometimes it seems to me that a company shouldn't

1907
01:33:28,772 --> 01:33:30,572
Speaker 2: be allowed to continue. I'm not going to name the

1908
01:33:30,652 --> 01:33:32,133
Speaker 2: name of it doesn't cause they get it wrong. But

1909
01:33:32,213 --> 01:33:34,852
Speaker 2: there was a while back, and this isn't quite green washing.

1910
01:33:34,933 --> 01:33:38,052
Speaker 2: I guess it's sort of a moral form of washing.

1911
01:33:38,173 --> 01:33:42,253
Speaker 2: But you know, a free range selling eggs and saying

1912
01:33:42,293 --> 01:33:44,013
Speaker 2: that they're free range and selling a whole lot of

1913
01:33:44,093 --> 01:33:46,213
Speaker 2: eggs as free range, people are paying more for them,

1914
01:33:46,372 --> 01:33:49,133
Speaker 2: and then there's an investigation and you find out though

1915
01:33:49,133 --> 01:33:52,173
Speaker 2: it were never free range. Doesn't that feel like that

1916
01:33:52,293 --> 01:33:56,372
Speaker 2: should be a company ending situation because you've lied to people,

1917
01:33:56,452 --> 01:33:58,653
Speaker 2: people have paid money. It's come out of the consumers,

1918
01:33:59,772 --> 01:34:01,812
Speaker 2: you know, pocket they thought they were buying free range

1919
01:34:01,812 --> 01:34:04,452
Speaker 2: eggs because they care about that, they haven't. It seems

1920
01:34:04,492 --> 01:34:07,173
Speaker 2: odd when you see a company continuing on they've paid

1921
01:34:07,173 --> 01:34:07,612
Speaker 2: a fine.

1922
01:34:07,893 --> 01:34:11,012
Speaker 3: But do you see what I'm saying?

1923
01:34:11,853 --> 01:34:15,572
Speaker 14: Yeah, sermily erodes trust and I certainly would as a customer,

1924
01:34:15,572 --> 01:34:20,013
Speaker 14: would stare clear of that particular brand. But yeah, the

1925
01:34:20,133 --> 01:34:22,973
Speaker 14: marketplace is such a you know, the ethical concerns, what

1926
01:34:23,253 --> 01:34:26,973
Speaker 14: ingredients come from, supply chain, The marketplace is just so

1927
01:34:27,253 --> 01:34:29,492
Speaker 14: complex for consumers at the moment, and we just don't

1928
01:34:29,532 --> 01:34:32,333
Speaker 14: have the time to stand in the aisle for ours

1929
01:34:32,372 --> 01:34:34,452
Speaker 14: to unpack all of these claims. So it just makes

1930
01:34:34,492 --> 01:34:36,892
Speaker 14: it so much more important. You know, if things were

1931
01:34:37,013 --> 01:34:38,812
Speaker 14: checked before they went to the market, it would make

1932
01:34:38,893 --> 01:34:40,012
Speaker 14: life a lot easier for everyone.

1933
01:34:40,093 --> 01:34:42,772
Speaker 4: I think what would be a fair punishment for those

1934
01:34:42,853 --> 01:34:46,973
Speaker 4: companies found green washing and making up you know, effectively

1935
01:34:47,053 --> 01:34:50,133
Speaker 4: they are lies. What would be an appropriate punishment in

1936
01:34:50,173 --> 01:34:51,732
Speaker 4: New Zealand? I mean, could it get to the point

1937
01:34:51,732 --> 01:34:54,293
Speaker 4: where you take that product? Supermarkets are forced to take

1938
01:34:54,333 --> 01:34:59,412
Speaker 4: that product off off the shelves for a week, maybe

1939
01:34:59,812 --> 01:35:00,372
Speaker 4: a fine in.

1940
01:35:00,412 --> 01:35:02,572
Speaker 14: Proportion to the profit the company has made or for

1941
01:35:02,652 --> 01:35:05,293
Speaker 14: that product, and those claims would be a good idea.

1942
01:35:05,612 --> 01:35:08,812
Speaker 14: Certainly at the moment the six hundred thousand dollars is working,

1943
01:35:08,973 --> 01:35:11,372
Speaker 14: so we would definitely support her a view of the

1944
01:35:11,492 --> 01:35:14,213
Speaker 14: penalties of the FIR Trading Act going up quite substantially

1945
01:35:14,333 --> 01:35:18,932
Speaker 14: to act as a deterrent, and I think this raising

1946
01:35:18,973 --> 01:35:22,213
Speaker 14: the penalty would be a good encouragement to businesses to

1947
01:35:22,293 --> 01:35:24,452
Speaker 14: look at how they're labeling their products and whether they're

1948
01:35:24,492 --> 01:35:25,412
Speaker 14: being miss leading or not.

1949
01:35:26,253 --> 01:35:28,532
Speaker 4: Rebecca has been great to chat with you. Thank you

1950
01:35:28,812 --> 01:35:29,692
Speaker 4: very much for your time.

1951
01:35:30,612 --> 01:35:31,132
Speaker 7: My pleasure.

1952
01:35:31,372 --> 01:35:35,532
Speaker 4: That is Rebecca Styles. She is Consumer Endz investigative team

1953
01:35:35,692 --> 01:35:38,213
Speaker 4: leader and we want to hear your thoughts about greenwashing.

1954
01:35:38,253 --> 01:35:40,372
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right, e te hundred and eighty ten eighty

1955
01:35:40,532 --> 01:35:43,932
Speaker 2: and examples of it that annoy you because I've got

1956
01:35:43,933 --> 01:35:47,572
Speaker 2: a few things where it may not be completely illegal,

1957
01:35:47,732 --> 01:35:49,933
Speaker 2: but it's so clearly b es.

1958
01:35:50,053 --> 01:35:53,772
Speaker 3: What's going on? And look, I'm going to say right

1959
01:35:53,853 --> 01:35:59,652
Speaker 3: off the bat that stupid stupid cardboard straws for drinks.

1960
01:36:00,333 --> 01:36:01,892
Speaker 3: Get out? What is the point?

1961
01:36:02,053 --> 01:36:02,452
Speaker 12: Get out?

1962
01:36:02,492 --> 01:36:04,693
Speaker 3: As if that makes any freaking difference.

1963
01:36:04,372 --> 01:36:07,973
Speaker 4: In the world eight hundred eighty ten eighty. What are

1964
01:36:08,053 --> 01:36:11,173
Speaker 4: the worst examples of greenwashing you've come across and what

1965
01:36:11,333 --> 01:36:15,212
Speaker 4: should be the punishment for these companies that are accused

1966
01:36:15,253 --> 01:36:17,852
Speaker 4: of this? Discussing greenwashing? Love to hear from you. It

1967
01:36:17,973 --> 01:36:22,492
Speaker 4: is twenty nine past three headlines with Raylene coming up tasing.

1968
01:36:24,853 --> 01:36:28,253
Speaker 13: Us talks at the headlines with blue bubble taxis It's

1969
01:36:28,333 --> 01:36:31,213
Speaker 13: no trouble with a blue bubble. The government claims to

1970
01:36:31,293 --> 01:36:35,333
Speaker 13: have surpassed its target of having twenty thousand fewer victims

1971
01:36:35,372 --> 01:36:39,333
Speaker 13: of violent crime by twenty twenty nine, reaching twenty eight

1972
01:36:39,532 --> 01:36:44,213
Speaker 13: thousand from a twenty twenty three baseline. Northlands in line

1973
01:36:44,293 --> 01:36:48,052
Speaker 13: for heavy wind and rain from three am tomorrow, moving

1974
01:36:48,133 --> 01:36:51,732
Speaker 13: on to Auckland, Great Barrier Island and Corimandel Peninsula early

1975
01:36:51,812 --> 01:36:57,652
Speaker 13: on Thursday. Physiotherapy New Zealands as letting physiopractitioners certify people

1976
01:36:57,692 --> 01:37:01,492
Speaker 13: as fit for work without needing GP sign off could

1977
01:37:01,572 --> 01:37:05,973
Speaker 13: save acc millions. A managered in a crash on Dunedin's

1978
01:37:05,973 --> 01:37:09,772
Speaker 13: Brockville Road last month has died in hospital. Amman's due

1979
01:37:09,853 --> 01:37:14,172
Speaker 13: in court next Thursday on reckless driving charges. The Education

1980
01:37:14,412 --> 01:37:17,612
Speaker 13: Minister says there'll be an announcement soon on new school

1981
01:37:17,692 --> 01:37:21,572
Speaker 13: property in Canterbury after news one hundred million dollars as

1982
01:37:21,612 --> 01:37:25,812
Speaker 13: going into Auckland schools. Two high tech uncrewed vessels have

1983
01:37:25,933 --> 01:37:30,053
Speaker 13: set sail in Auckland, beginning operations patrolling the coastline to

1984
01:37:30,173 --> 01:37:35,772
Speaker 13: protect maritime interests and security, including stopping drug smuggling. Greg

1985
01:37:35,893 --> 01:37:38,972
Speaker 13: Or Paul on why is super rugby player draft would

1986
01:37:39,013 --> 01:37:42,492
Speaker 13: boost competition? Read the full column at Enzen Herald Premium.

1987
01:37:42,933 --> 01:37:44,973
Speaker 13: Back to matt Eth and Tyler Adams.

1988
01:37:44,732 --> 01:37:46,933
Speaker 4: Thank you very much, Rayllan, and we're talking about greenwashing

1989
01:37:47,013 --> 01:37:49,293
Speaker 4: on the back of Glad the company. They've been fined

1990
01:37:49,333 --> 01:37:52,333
Speaker 4: eight point two five million dollars in Australia. They said

1991
01:37:52,933 --> 01:37:55,652
Speaker 4: their products came from recycled ocean plastic bar.

1992
01:37:55,692 --> 01:37:56,892
Speaker 3: It was an ocean plus.

1993
01:37:57,412 --> 01:38:00,892
Speaker 2: Here's a mysterious text around greenwashing on nine two nine two.

1994
01:38:00,893 --> 01:38:03,612
Speaker 2: Our company collects unused bits of our product from our

1995
01:38:03,692 --> 01:38:07,013
Speaker 2: customers that they haven't used. They market the fact they

1996
01:38:07,053 --> 01:38:10,652
Speaker 2: are proud that the unused product gets recycled, when often

1997
01:38:10,812 --> 01:38:12,333
Speaker 2: it doesn't and ends up in the skip.

1998
01:38:12,452 --> 01:38:14,933
Speaker 3: I hate it. I have told the boss, but he

1999
01:38:15,173 --> 01:38:16,572
Speaker 3: doesn't give a damn.

2000
01:38:16,933 --> 01:38:19,692
Speaker 4: Oh there is mysterious that is massive green washing.

2001
01:38:19,772 --> 01:38:22,492
Speaker 2: Some horrific green rushing going on. Just an example of

2002
01:38:22,572 --> 01:38:24,572
Speaker 2: green washing and what I'm talking about. It can be

2003
01:38:24,652 --> 01:38:26,812
Speaker 2: on a really really low level. It's in a hotel,

2004
01:38:26,893 --> 01:38:29,412
Speaker 2: for example, when you see that thing, we are in

2005
01:38:29,612 --> 01:38:34,253
Speaker 2: an echo friendly hotel. We take some sustainability seriously. So

2006
01:38:35,133 --> 01:38:37,492
Speaker 2: don't so hang your tails off if you don't want

2007
01:38:37,492 --> 01:38:40,013
Speaker 2: them to be washed, yep, and only leave them on

2008
01:38:40,133 --> 01:38:41,532
Speaker 2: the floor of the bathroom if you do want them

2009
01:38:41,572 --> 01:38:43,253
Speaker 2: to wash. It's like, that is rubbish. That's nothing to

2010
01:38:43,333 --> 01:38:45,812
Speaker 2: do with anything. That's to do with you trying not

2011
01:38:45,893 --> 01:38:48,133
Speaker 2: to have to clean as many towels as if that

2012
01:38:48,213 --> 01:38:48,732
Speaker 2: makes any.

2013
01:38:48,652 --> 01:38:49,213
Speaker 3: Kind of different.

2014
01:38:49,253 --> 01:38:52,012
Speaker 4: That is the hotel saving money rather than saving water

2015
01:38:52,213 --> 01:38:52,852
Speaker 4: or the environment.

2016
01:38:53,853 --> 01:38:54,452
Speaker 3: I read that sign.

2017
01:38:54,532 --> 01:38:56,492
Speaker 2: I go through and take every towel and the entire

2018
01:38:56,572 --> 01:38:58,692
Speaker 2: place and have it on the floor in the bathroom

2019
01:38:58,732 --> 01:39:01,492
Speaker 2: and all the sheets and the mattress.

2020
01:39:01,933 --> 01:39:04,133
Speaker 3: Make a point. Take that with your green washing, Dave,

2021
01:39:04,652 --> 01:39:05,932
Speaker 3: green washing your thoughts?

2022
01:39:07,372 --> 01:39:10,932
Speaker 8: Yeah mate, well the best off? Can you stop talking

2023
01:39:10,933 --> 01:39:13,532
Speaker 8: about the Wadden spoons and support because you're wrong.

2024
01:39:14,532 --> 01:39:16,812
Speaker 3: No, I'll talk about whatever I want, but you explain

2025
01:39:16,893 --> 01:39:18,532
Speaker 3: it please what you mean? Okay?

2026
01:39:18,612 --> 01:39:21,572
Speaker 8: So Richard Branson did a study and he published it

2027
01:39:21,692 --> 01:39:24,772
Speaker 8: that showed that when they came from cuttery to wooden

2028
01:39:24,853 --> 01:39:29,012
Speaker 8: spoons from the UK to America, saved eight hundred liters

2029
01:39:29,053 --> 01:39:29,412
Speaker 8: of fuel.

2030
01:39:31,253 --> 01:39:35,173
Speaker 2: Yeah, but that may maybe the case, Dave, But that

2031
01:39:35,253 --> 01:39:36,293
Speaker 2: wasn't really the point I was making.

2032
01:39:36,372 --> 01:39:36,772
Speaker 3: I was making.

2033
01:39:36,812 --> 01:39:38,612
Speaker 2: It's kind of a funny situation when you're on a

2034
01:39:38,692 --> 01:39:41,253
Speaker 2: plane and it's you know, you're traveling from to London

2035
01:39:41,372 --> 01:39:45,333
Speaker 2: or something across and you're blasting out aviation fuel and

2036
01:39:45,452 --> 01:39:47,892
Speaker 2: it's kind of a distraction thing. And I think you're

2037
01:39:47,893 --> 01:39:51,452
Speaker 2: probably right, David, there is probably an eco justification around bamboo.

2038
01:39:51,492 --> 01:39:53,173
Speaker 2: But can you kind of see My point is that

2039
01:39:53,572 --> 01:39:54,492
Speaker 2: don't look over here?

2040
01:39:54,772 --> 01:39:55,133
Speaker 3: Look here.

2041
01:39:56,213 --> 01:39:58,053
Speaker 8: I see your point, And that's the same reason why

2042
01:39:58,093 --> 01:39:59,652
Speaker 8: people don't look at electric cars.

2043
01:39:59,893 --> 01:40:00,093
Speaker 3: Yeah.

2044
01:40:00,253 --> 01:40:03,132
Speaker 8: Yeah, you know, if you look at lytric cars literal batteries,

2045
01:40:04,133 --> 01:40:07,732
Speaker 8: you know they're not green, they're not clean. That's dirty mining.

2046
01:40:08,372 --> 01:40:09,972
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah.

2047
01:40:10,013 --> 01:40:13,253
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like what you're saying, Dave, you're only looking at

2048
01:40:13,253 --> 01:40:16,253
Speaker 2: one and now an element of it. So you really

2049
01:40:16,293 --> 01:40:18,133
Speaker 2: focus on one element of it and say, well, this

2050
01:40:18,293 --> 01:40:20,812
Speaker 2: is green. If it's coming from hydroelectric dam then this

2051
01:40:21,053 --> 01:40:23,093
Speaker 2: ev is green. But you're not talking about how it

2052
01:40:23,173 --> 01:40:26,333
Speaker 2: was manufactured, how how it came here, the fact that

2053
01:40:26,652 --> 01:40:29,652
Speaker 2: there's a lot of coal that's still used in most

2054
01:40:30,053 --> 01:40:34,133
Speaker 2: countries to fuel their ev so they eventually they're essentially.

2055
01:40:33,812 --> 01:40:35,892
Speaker 8: A steam and make the I for those cars.

2056
01:40:36,253 --> 01:40:39,492
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, And the supply chain brings it all together.

2057
01:40:39,853 --> 01:40:41,572
Speaker 8: And what are you going to do with the reactors

2058
01:40:41,572 --> 01:40:42,372
Speaker 8: when you finished with them?

2059
01:40:43,053 --> 01:40:47,812
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. You have to list the actuality of it.

2060
01:40:48,053 --> 01:40:49,612
Speaker 2: And so I guess that's what I'm saying, Dave, is

2061
01:40:49,692 --> 01:40:52,333
Speaker 2: that you know you're sitting there feeling good about yourself

2062
01:40:52,372 --> 01:40:55,133
Speaker 2: because you're using your bamboo nipe and fork, but you

2063
01:40:55,293 --> 01:40:57,053
Speaker 2: actually have to realize if that, if you believe in

2064
01:40:57,093 --> 01:41:00,372
Speaker 2: the eco thing, the very fact that you're flying means

2065
01:41:00,412 --> 01:41:01,133
Speaker 2: that you don't care.

2066
01:41:02,333 --> 01:41:05,092
Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah, I believe the sponge alone.

2067
01:41:05,133 --> 01:41:09,213
Speaker 3: Man, you're quite enjoy the disposes. Anything wrong with enjoying

2068
01:41:09,253 --> 01:41:10,733
Speaker 3: the spoon, that's.

2069
01:41:11,532 --> 01:41:13,093
Speaker 2: Much Dave, I ad met I did a bit of

2070
01:41:13,133 --> 01:41:15,293
Speaker 2: a I did another bit of an unfair drive by

2071
01:41:15,333 --> 01:41:15,932
Speaker 2: on the spoons.

2072
01:41:15,933 --> 01:41:17,812
Speaker 3: I get that. Look, I'm a huge fan. I'm a

2073
01:41:17,933 --> 01:41:19,293
Speaker 3: huge fan of a wooden spoon.

2074
01:41:19,492 --> 01:41:22,092
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, you know, they do what I intended

2075
01:41:22,133 --> 01:41:23,693
Speaker 4: to do. They just don't save thee.

2076
01:41:23,452 --> 01:41:25,732
Speaker 3: That's not true. I received some wooden spoonings in my time.

2077
01:41:25,772 --> 01:41:28,532
Speaker 2: I wasn't a big fan of you deserve them though,

2078
01:41:29,213 --> 01:41:31,413
Speaker 2: well deserved old school form of punishment.

2079
01:41:31,893 --> 01:41:32,133
Speaker 3: Bill.

2080
01:41:34,253 --> 01:41:35,612
Speaker 7: Here we go, there you go, bells.

2081
01:41:35,772 --> 01:41:36,812
Speaker 3: Yeah, good, good mate.

2082
01:41:38,853 --> 01:41:41,253
Speaker 5: We've reached sort of like green wash and blah blah blah.

2083
01:41:41,412 --> 01:41:43,692
Speaker 17: Yep, recycled toilet paper.

2084
01:41:44,053 --> 01:41:44,933
Speaker 12: How do they do it?

2085
01:41:46,053 --> 01:41:50,133
Speaker 3: That's a good point. I haven't thought. Yeah, you're right,

2086
01:41:50,173 --> 01:41:54,973
Speaker 3: it's a disgusting thought. I'm trying to look it up

2087
01:41:55,053 --> 01:41:55,692
Speaker 3: as we speak.

2088
01:41:55,732 --> 01:41:57,772
Speaker 4: But it's a fair point, though, because quite often I

2089
01:41:57,853 --> 01:42:00,492
Speaker 4: will go for the toilet paper that says recycled, and

2090
01:42:00,572 --> 01:42:02,612
Speaker 4: I've never thought about it because I've been I'm just

2091
01:42:02,652 --> 01:42:03,052
Speaker 4: a sucker.

2092
01:42:03,293 --> 01:42:04,412
Speaker 9: Well, I'm sure, I'm sure.

2093
01:42:04,893 --> 01:42:08,652
Speaker 17: I'm sure they choose sort of small villagers that probably

2094
01:42:08,812 --> 01:42:11,772
Speaker 17: draw on a very high fiber diet, for example. But

2095
01:42:11,933 --> 01:42:14,532
Speaker 17: then again, those poor villages probably couldn't afford it by

2096
01:42:14,893 --> 01:42:16,532
Speaker 17: recycled toilet paper.

2097
01:42:16,732 --> 01:42:20,133
Speaker 2: I'm not even familiar with the concept of recycled talet paper.

2098
01:42:20,173 --> 01:42:21,933
Speaker 3: Really. I thought when you said that that that was

2099
01:42:22,452 --> 01:42:24,133
Speaker 3: a joke. No, it's actually a thing.

2100
01:42:24,293 --> 01:42:25,932
Speaker 4: But does it I don't know if it comes from

2101
01:42:26,093 --> 01:42:28,173
Speaker 4: the actual toilet paper. I think it comes from other

2102
01:42:28,253 --> 01:42:31,532
Speaker 4: paper goods. It's not like you're fluttered down the duney

2103
01:42:31,933 --> 01:42:34,293
Speaker 4: and some poor buggers pulling it out and right right

2104
01:42:34,372 --> 01:42:35,453
Speaker 4: there can be reused.

2105
01:42:35,812 --> 01:42:38,812
Speaker 3: It's just other types of paper. Of course, it's not.

2106
01:42:39,612 --> 01:42:42,333
Speaker 3: I'm so dumb. Sometimes I'm so dumb it surprises me.

2107
01:42:42,812 --> 01:42:45,412
Speaker 3: But yeah, to be fair that as well. So it's

2108
01:42:45,492 --> 01:42:48,892
Speaker 3: recycled toilet paper. No, it's recycled from something else into

2109
01:42:48,933 --> 01:42:49,572
Speaker 3: toilet paper.

2110
01:42:49,732 --> 01:42:54,053
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that's how it works. One hundred and

2111
01:42:54,093 --> 01:42:55,612
Speaker 4: eighty ten eighty is the number to call hi.

2112
01:42:55,732 --> 01:42:57,572
Speaker 2: The paper bags that supermarkets have to be the most

2113
01:42:57,572 --> 01:42:59,972
Speaker 2: pointless and useless item in the name of saving the planet.

2114
01:43:00,013 --> 01:43:02,173
Speaker 2: They fall apart and get thrown out once at home,

2115
01:43:02,412 --> 01:43:04,492
Speaker 2: and it takes more resources and energy to make the

2116
01:43:04,572 --> 01:43:06,892
Speaker 2: paper bags. Meanwhile, the plastic ones get reused as bin

2117
01:43:06,973 --> 01:43:10,532
Speaker 2: liners exciture where now they were brought in the supermarket.

2118
01:43:10,572 --> 01:43:12,052
Speaker 2: And the other thing you see to say about plastic

2119
01:43:12,053 --> 01:43:15,492
Speaker 2: bag is that that's actually locking fossil fuels in from

2120
01:43:15,772 --> 01:43:19,093
Speaker 2: it's not being released into the atmosphere. They're not burning them,

2121
01:43:19,492 --> 01:43:22,173
Speaker 2: they're locked in. But yeah, I order in my groceries

2122
01:43:22,572 --> 01:43:26,692
Speaker 2: quite often and it comes with just such an absolute

2123
01:43:26,893 --> 01:43:29,812
Speaker 2: avalanche and apocalypse of brown paper bags that I then

2124
01:43:29,853 --> 01:43:33,213
Speaker 2: shuff strange in my recycling bin. There's absolutely no way

2125
01:43:33,293 --> 01:43:35,293
Speaker 2: that there can possibly be good for the environment.

2126
01:43:35,452 --> 01:43:37,652
Speaker 4: They're not shying the paper bags, the stickster says.

2127
01:43:37,692 --> 01:43:37,892
Speaker 3: Guys.

2128
01:43:37,893 --> 01:43:40,412
Speaker 4: There's a major car company saying their car only needs

2129
01:43:40,452 --> 01:43:43,812
Speaker 4: one point six leaders of petrol per one hundred k's

2130
01:43:43,893 --> 01:43:46,133
Speaker 4: that's because the battery does eighty five k. Then it

2131
01:43:46,253 --> 01:43:48,372
Speaker 4: needs one point six leader for the other fifteen k.

2132
01:43:48,572 --> 01:43:51,732
Speaker 4: But the rest of the tank will You'd be lucky

2133
01:43:51,933 --> 01:43:55,692
Speaker 4: to get ten liders per one hundred k out of

2134
01:43:55,772 --> 01:43:57,492
Speaker 4: the tank. Massive green washing.

2135
01:43:57,532 --> 01:43:58,972
Speaker 3: The dirty green washes.

2136
01:43:59,213 --> 01:44:01,013
Speaker 2: Hey, guys, a recent study found that there are more

2137
01:44:01,572 --> 01:44:04,452
Speaker 2: forever chemicals in cardboard straws than the plastic ones.

2138
01:44:04,492 --> 01:44:07,213
Speaker 3: It's all virtue signaling. Go figure, cheers, whirzled.

2139
01:44:07,093 --> 01:44:09,452
Speaker 4: Oh eight hundred and eighty ten eighty. What is the

2140
01:44:09,612 --> 01:44:12,572
Speaker 4: worst example of green washing you have come across? Love

2141
01:44:12,652 --> 01:44:14,213
Speaker 4: to hear from you? It is twenty wonder four.

2142
01:44:14,412 --> 01:44:17,333
Speaker 3: They don't recycle the toilet paper and use it again

2143
01:44:18,293 --> 01:44:21,412
Speaker 3: the bad stuff. Come on, you idiot, what does that job?

2144
01:44:24,253 --> 01:44:27,812
Speaker 1: Matt Heath Taylor Adams taking your calls on eight hundred

2145
01:44:27,812 --> 01:44:30,333
Speaker 1: and eighty ten eighty. It's mad Heath and Taylor Adams

2146
01:44:30,492 --> 01:44:31,812
Speaker 1: afternoons news talk.

2147
01:44:32,652 --> 01:44:34,772
Speaker 4: It is eighteen to four and having a great discussion

2148
01:44:34,812 --> 01:44:37,572
Speaker 4: about the worst examples of green washing that you have

2149
01:44:37,652 --> 01:44:38,132
Speaker 4: come across.

2150
01:44:38,572 --> 01:44:41,692
Speaker 2: The Ben's claiming our entire country is a green washing operation.

2151
01:44:41,772 --> 01:44:43,812
Speaker 2: How about the government telling companies to lower their common

2152
01:44:43,853 --> 01:44:45,812
Speaker 2: footprint promoting international tourism.

2153
01:44:46,372 --> 01:44:50,492
Speaker 3: How about the bloody jet fuels? Keep quite about that.

2154
01:44:50,732 --> 01:44:53,532
Speaker 2: Yeah, we need we need as many people jetting here

2155
01:44:53,572 --> 01:44:57,213
Speaker 2: as we ring a man, Peter, you want to talk

2156
01:44:57,253 --> 01:44:59,013
Speaker 2: about plastic chopping boards.

2157
01:45:00,452 --> 01:45:05,053
Speaker 20: No, this is plastic recycled plastic boards for using. And

2158
01:45:05,692 --> 01:45:09,013
Speaker 20: so you've been furniture in various things. Ivent had a

2159
01:45:09,093 --> 01:45:11,773
Speaker 20: guy come and try and sell me some from manufactured

2160
01:45:11,772 --> 01:45:15,732
Speaker 20: in Australia using New Zealand waste. Delved into it, asked,

2161
01:45:15,772 --> 01:45:19,293
Speaker 20: well are we shipping New Zealand waste to Australia to

2162
01:45:19,412 --> 01:45:22,973
Speaker 20: be then manufactured with colfer power and DA da DA,

2163
01:45:23,692 --> 01:45:26,612
Speaker 20: And he said, well, it's only three percent New Zealand waste,

2164
01:45:26,652 --> 01:45:29,333
Speaker 20: the rest of the Australian waste. And then I said,

2165
01:45:29,492 --> 01:45:31,173
Speaker 20: so then you're shipping it all the way back to

2166
01:45:31,253 --> 01:45:34,532
Speaker 20: New Zealand. He goes here and tried to make it

2167
01:45:34,612 --> 01:45:38,092
Speaker 20: out that it's from New Zealand manufactured waste. Got another

2168
01:45:38,213 --> 01:45:42,053
Speaker 20: one where a guy tried to sell me recycled plastic

2169
01:45:42,253 --> 01:45:48,293
Speaker 20: boards manufactured in Europe and with cradle to cradle certification.

2170
01:45:49,692 --> 01:45:52,493
Speaker 20: Then I asked, well, where can these things be recycled?

2171
01:45:53,412 --> 01:45:55,412
Speaker 20: And then when he delved in it, when asked a

2172
01:45:55,452 --> 01:45:58,133
Speaker 20: few questions back at his office, Oh, has to go

2173
01:45:58,213 --> 01:45:58,852
Speaker 20: back to Europe.

2174
01:45:58,933 --> 01:46:03,492
Speaker 8: So really, is that really really green?

2175
01:46:04,013 --> 01:46:04,053
Speaker 13: No?

2176
01:46:04,853 --> 01:46:07,133
Speaker 20: No, So you've got to watch You've got to watch

2177
01:46:07,173 --> 01:46:09,772
Speaker 20: all the certifications. They might have all the ticks and

2178
01:46:10,213 --> 01:46:11,733
Speaker 20: boxes and certification.

2179
01:46:12,612 --> 01:46:13,293
Speaker 6: Half of it's.

2180
01:46:13,213 --> 01:46:14,452
Speaker 18: Bullshit when you delve into it.

2181
01:46:14,692 --> 01:46:18,732
Speaker 20: Another one that's another picking boards and things that are

2182
01:46:18,812 --> 01:46:22,372
Speaker 20: fully recyclable, but you delve into it, we can they

2183
01:46:22,452 --> 01:46:25,253
Speaker 20: be recycled. They can't be recycled in New Zealand. Another

2184
01:46:25,333 --> 01:46:29,173
Speaker 20: one was China. So that's just rife through that sort

2185
01:46:29,213 --> 01:46:33,092
Speaker 20: of industry. If you're going shopping for recycled plastic boards

2186
01:46:33,213 --> 01:46:37,612
Speaker 20: or these amitation timber type boards everywhere.

2187
01:46:38,293 --> 01:46:41,412
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that's the totality of it, isn't it.

2188
01:46:41,452 --> 01:46:44,412
Speaker 2: Because you can find to ter avertise your product. One

2189
01:46:44,532 --> 01:46:46,732
Speaker 2: thing you go look at this line here, it's this

2190
01:46:47,812 --> 01:46:49,492
Speaker 2: you know, and this one that you know. They were

2191
01:46:49,572 --> 01:46:52,532
Speaker 2: saying that it was ocean plastics. They were making it

2192
01:46:52,612 --> 01:46:54,852
Speaker 2: with yeah, and then they locked into it and it

2193
01:46:54,973 --> 01:46:56,612
Speaker 2: was an ocean plastics. So then they tried to try

2194
01:46:56,652 --> 01:47:00,013
Speaker 2: to claim ocean bound plastics. And so they've made the

2195
01:47:00,053 --> 01:47:02,412
Speaker 2: assumption that these if they hadn't well, they haven't made

2196
01:47:02,412 --> 01:47:04,173
Speaker 2: the assumption. They've made the claim that if they hadn't

2197
01:47:04,173 --> 01:47:06,772
Speaker 2: grabbed these plastics, they would go to the ocean. But

2198
01:47:07,213 --> 01:47:09,173
Speaker 2: you need to look at the whole thing, and that

2199
01:47:09,293 --> 01:47:12,772
Speaker 2: example there, or the example in EVS, you have to

2200
01:47:12,853 --> 01:47:16,572
Speaker 2: list absolutely all of it. But in green washing, they'll

2201
01:47:16,612 --> 01:47:19,812
Speaker 2: find two or three little examples that fit the narrative

2202
01:47:20,093 --> 01:47:23,732
Speaker 2: that it's green and absolutely ignore all the other parts

2203
01:47:23,772 --> 01:47:28,052
Speaker 2: of it that you know. And that's really the problem

2204
01:47:28,253 --> 01:47:30,372
Speaker 2: for a consumer because how are you supposed to unpack

2205
01:47:30,452 --> 01:47:30,652
Speaker 2: all that.

2206
01:47:30,933 --> 01:47:34,093
Speaker 4: It's like this product that consumer called out some time ago,

2207
01:47:34,213 --> 01:47:37,253
Speaker 4: but the wipes, and it's called Earth Smart and it

2208
01:47:37,293 --> 01:47:40,492
Speaker 4: says it made with ninety nine point eight percent pure

2209
01:47:40,652 --> 01:47:44,293
Speaker 4: New Zealand water, and wipes are made from plants, not.

2210
01:47:44,372 --> 01:47:46,812
Speaker 3: Plastic, so all of that looks good. It's called Earth Smart.

2211
01:47:46,933 --> 01:47:49,652
Speaker 4: It's made pretty much just water, and it's made from plants.

2212
01:47:50,253 --> 01:47:53,732
Speaker 4: And they didn't make a claim that it was biodegradable,

2213
01:47:54,372 --> 01:47:56,772
Speaker 4: but clearly it wasn't. But when you see it's made

2214
01:47:56,812 --> 01:47:59,093
Speaker 4: from plants not plastic, you think cool, that's going to

2215
01:47:59,133 --> 01:47:59,572
Speaker 4: break down.

2216
01:48:00,013 --> 01:48:01,093
Speaker 3: This product doesn't break down.

2217
01:48:01,253 --> 01:48:03,013
Speaker 11: Yeah, you know?

2218
01:48:03,133 --> 01:48:08,613
Speaker 2: And okay, good one, Mark, I have been green whiteing?

2219
01:48:09,532 --> 01:48:11,932
Speaker 2: Have I been green washing when I've been cleaning out

2220
01:48:11,973 --> 01:48:12,852
Speaker 2: my bond for years?

2221
01:48:12,973 --> 01:48:13,173
Speaker 11: Mark?

2222
01:48:13,253 --> 01:48:13,652
Speaker 9: Well you have?

2223
01:48:13,772 --> 01:48:15,492
Speaker 3: I guess you have been green washing to an.

2224
01:48:15,372 --> 01:48:18,293
Speaker 4: Extent in a way, in a way yeay, environmentally friendly

2225
01:48:18,372 --> 01:48:22,253
Speaker 4: somewhat imagine, guys, only a true eco logic grinds my

2226
01:48:22,452 --> 01:48:27,492
Speaker 4: gears regarding green washing. How can a place be called sorry?

2227
01:48:27,532 --> 01:48:30,412
Speaker 4: How can a place call them echo when all they

2228
01:48:30,532 --> 01:48:31,892
Speaker 4: use is a couple of cleaning products.

2229
01:48:32,772 --> 01:48:35,452
Speaker 3: That's exactly what I'm talking about, Sharon. They just described.

2230
01:48:35,492 --> 01:48:37,732
Speaker 2: They grab two things and describe it and then claim

2231
01:48:37,772 --> 01:48:40,652
Speaker 2: that the whole thing is eco. This is another one here.

2232
01:48:41,333 --> 01:48:45,412
Speaker 2: Combustible compostible coffee cups can't be composted unless sent to

2233
01:48:45,452 --> 01:48:48,973
Speaker 2: a commercial composting facility, which is not a service available

2234
01:48:49,053 --> 01:48:52,372
Speaker 2: for curbsite rubbish collection. So we used to recycle our

2235
01:48:52,412 --> 01:48:54,652
Speaker 2: coffee cups. But now we can't put those cups in

2236
01:48:54,692 --> 01:48:57,772
Speaker 2: the recycling bin, so they just have to go to landfill.

2237
01:48:57,812 --> 01:49:00,612
Speaker 2: But you can still claim that they're compostible coffee cups

2238
01:49:00,692 --> 01:49:03,452
Speaker 2: because technically they are compossible. The fact that it's not

2239
01:49:03,532 --> 01:49:05,293
Speaker 2: practical and it won't happen is.

2240
01:49:07,293 --> 01:49:10,412
Speaker 3: By the bye exactly, guys.

2241
01:49:10,973 --> 01:49:14,412
Speaker 4: There is a lot of sprays in the market that

2242
01:49:14,572 --> 01:49:18,572
Speaker 4: claim to be planet conscious and nature inspired. It's just

2243
01:49:18,692 --> 01:49:22,612
Speaker 4: a load of absolute hogwash. There's nothing nature inspired about them,

2244
01:49:22,612 --> 01:49:25,692
Speaker 4: and they certainly aren't planet conscious. It's just buzzwords and

2245
01:49:25,772 --> 01:49:26,612
Speaker 4: it doesn't mean anything.

2246
01:49:27,532 --> 01:49:29,333
Speaker 2: What's that guy talking about, You're supposed to drink the

2247
01:49:29,372 --> 01:49:31,612
Speaker 2: bone water water. I don't think that's true. I don't

2248
01:49:31,612 --> 01:49:33,093
Speaker 2: think you are supposed to drink the bon water.

2249
01:49:33,133 --> 01:49:34,812
Speaker 4: And it's a brave move. If you want to do it,

2250
01:49:35,093 --> 01:49:35,812
Speaker 4: no one's stopping you.

2251
01:49:36,093 --> 01:49:38,253
Speaker 3: It's definitely not good for your environment. I don't imagine.

2252
01:49:38,333 --> 01:49:41,253
Speaker 4: Oh, eight hundred eighty ten, Acy, what is the worst

2253
01:49:41,492 --> 01:49:43,572
Speaker 4: examples of greenwashing that you have seen?

2254
01:49:43,812 --> 01:49:46,093
Speaker 3: Love to hear from you. It is thirteen two four.

2255
01:49:47,612 --> 01:49:51,013
Speaker 1: The big stories, the big issues, the big trends, and

2256
01:49:51,333 --> 01:49:55,133
Speaker 1: everything in between. Matt Heath and Tyler Adams afternoons used

2257
01:49:55,173 --> 01:49:57,573
Speaker 1: talk z EDB News Talk ZEDB.

2258
01:49:57,893 --> 01:50:00,692
Speaker 4: Good afternoon. We're talking about greenwashing. It's on the back

2259
01:50:00,853 --> 01:50:03,772
Speaker 4: of glad You may know the company, well, they make

2260
01:50:03,853 --> 01:50:06,133
Speaker 4: glad rap among other products, but they got stung in

2261
01:50:06,173 --> 01:50:08,572
Speaker 4: Australia to the tune of eight point two f five

2262
01:50:08,692 --> 01:50:11,892
Speaker 4: million dollars. One of their products said it came from

2263
01:50:12,013 --> 01:50:17,333
Speaker 4: recycled ocean plastic, but after investigations, instead the products were

2264
01:50:17,372 --> 01:50:20,492
Speaker 4: made up of about fifty percent plastic waste that had

2265
01:50:20,532 --> 01:50:23,532
Speaker 4: been collected from communities in Indonesia with no formal waste

2266
01:50:23,572 --> 01:50:27,652
Speaker 4: management system. The communities were up to fifty kilometers from

2267
01:50:27,732 --> 01:50:30,652
Speaker 4: the sea, and the company used non recycled plastic processing

2268
01:50:30,732 --> 01:50:36,852
Speaker 4: AID and dies. So the investigating authority over in Australia said,

2269
01:50:36,933 --> 01:50:40,293
Speaker 4: I quote claims about environmental benefits mattered to many consumers

2270
01:50:40,333 --> 01:50:44,093
Speaker 4: and may impact their purchasing behavior. This was clearly a

2271
01:50:44,213 --> 01:50:48,492
Speaker 4: missy misleading statement and we're glad that they faced this

2272
01:50:48,612 --> 01:50:49,333
Speaker 4: particular fine.

2273
01:50:49,692 --> 01:50:51,372
Speaker 2: Is it like everything you have to look across the

2274
01:50:51,452 --> 01:50:53,692
Speaker 2: totality as saying before, and do you have to look

2275
01:50:53,732 --> 01:50:56,452
Speaker 2: across the totality of your life as this Texas says Brendan.

2276
01:50:56,532 --> 01:50:59,173
Speaker 2: Thank you the reality is to save the planet, we

2277
01:50:59,253 --> 01:51:01,372
Speaker 2: need to go back and live in caves. Everything we

2278
01:51:01,452 --> 01:51:03,852
Speaker 2: do is affecting the planet. So even the greenies use

2279
01:51:03,933 --> 01:51:07,652
Speaker 2: products that affect our planet. It is interesting, you know,

2280
01:51:08,893 --> 01:51:11,532
Speaker 2: you talk about the totality of evs and it doesn't

2281
01:51:11,652 --> 01:51:15,852
Speaker 2: stack up. You know, you talk about the totality of

2282
01:51:16,772 --> 01:51:19,412
Speaker 2: the cardboard, you know, the brown paper bags, and you

2283
01:51:19,532 --> 01:51:21,893
Speaker 2: start to have to take into to account the processing,

2284
01:51:22,053 --> 01:51:24,812
Speaker 2: the transport, the lack of reusing them.

2285
01:51:24,973 --> 01:51:26,253
Speaker 3: You have to go through the whole thing and take

2286
01:51:26,293 --> 01:51:29,013
Speaker 3: a list the energy use for the million that you

2287
01:51:29,093 --> 01:51:30,772
Speaker 3: get from the supermarket. But do you have to do

2288
01:51:30,893 --> 01:51:31,932
Speaker 3: that with your entire life?

2289
01:51:32,133 --> 01:51:34,852
Speaker 2: So you can walk around and you can go look,

2290
01:51:35,013 --> 01:51:37,932
Speaker 2: I'm drinking a coffee out of a combustible coffee cup.

2291
01:51:38,253 --> 01:51:40,772
Speaker 2: You know, a previous text has said before that, you

2292
01:51:40,853 --> 01:51:42,893
Speaker 2: know there are problems with that to start with, but

2293
01:51:43,053 --> 01:51:46,692
Speaker 2: that doesn't mean much. You know, if you are claiming

2294
01:51:46,893 --> 01:51:51,933
Speaker 2: to be or feeling virtuous around your sort of carbon footprint,

2295
01:51:52,333 --> 01:51:55,892
Speaker 2: if you then when the opportunity comes up, blast yourself

2296
01:51:55,933 --> 01:51:58,452
Speaker 2: a trip to Europe for the holidays or you know

2297
01:51:58,652 --> 01:52:02,213
Speaker 2: a famous conversation that either ones had nip off g

2298
01:52:02,412 --> 01:52:03,532
Speaker 2: for your holidays.

2299
01:52:03,173 --> 01:52:04,812
Speaker 4: Yeah, so you do one trip to Europe and then

2300
01:52:04,853 --> 01:52:06,372
Speaker 4: the rest of the time you have to go live

2301
01:52:06,412 --> 01:52:08,612
Speaker 4: in a log cabin and don't buy any thing.

2302
01:52:08,853 --> 01:52:10,213
Speaker 3: And I think.

2303
01:52:12,053 --> 01:52:13,852
Speaker 2: If people are going to list off the totality of

2304
01:52:13,853 --> 01:52:15,612
Speaker 2: everything they do in their life, I think there'd be

2305
01:52:15,652 --> 01:52:17,532
Speaker 2: a lot of people that claim to be pretty green

2306
01:52:17,973 --> 01:52:21,253
Speaker 2: that would realize that they're actually no better than anyone else.

2307
01:52:21,412 --> 01:52:21,612
Speaker 11: Yep.

2308
01:52:22,293 --> 01:52:24,973
Speaker 4: This textas says Hi Matt and Tyler are used to

2309
01:52:25,013 --> 01:52:26,932
Speaker 4: eat for a farmer back in the eighties who had

2310
01:52:27,053 --> 01:52:30,492
Speaker 4: a fruit and veggie stool and they sold free range eggs.

2311
01:52:30,532 --> 01:52:32,852
Speaker 4: They had a dozen chucks running around the yard, but

2312
01:52:33,013 --> 01:52:35,692
Speaker 4: ninety percent of the eggs came from a battery hen

2313
01:52:35,853 --> 01:52:38,412
Speaker 4: farmer up the road. They used to laugh their heads off.

2314
01:52:38,452 --> 01:52:42,892
Speaker 3: Bloody scammers. From Matt, It's rough. It is very rough

2315
01:52:43,692 --> 01:52:44,333
Speaker 3: in New Zealand.

2316
01:52:44,333 --> 01:52:46,412
Speaker 2: They have an obligation as a polluta to either reduce

2317
01:52:46,572 --> 01:52:49,013
Speaker 2: or pay for their admissions. They have a scheme when

2318
01:52:49,053 --> 01:52:51,372
Speaker 2: you book that you can offset your own emissions to

2319
01:52:51,412 --> 01:52:53,892
Speaker 2: be a green person. Feels good, then you realize you're

2320
01:52:53,973 --> 01:52:57,173
Speaker 2: just paying their bill. No extra trees or offsets are

2321
01:52:57,293 --> 01:53:01,093
Speaker 2: purchased than when they have to do legally anyway, then

2322
01:53:01,133 --> 01:53:03,333
Speaker 2: they would have to do legally anyway. I'm not one

2323
01:53:03,372 --> 01:53:06,372
Speaker 2: hundredercent sure of that stuff, but you know, I'll take

2324
01:53:06,412 --> 01:53:08,133
Speaker 2: you on your face value on that yep.

2325
01:53:08,612 --> 01:53:11,812
Speaker 4: And Neil says, it's just comes through. Let me grab it,

2326
01:53:12,053 --> 01:53:15,013
Speaker 4: high leads. I was looking over the blurb of a

2327
01:53:15,133 --> 01:53:19,732
Speaker 4: carton of oat milk one day and it wakes lyrical

2328
01:53:19,732 --> 01:53:22,852
Speaker 4: about saving the planet oats growing right here in New Zealand.

2329
01:53:22,933 --> 01:53:26,412
Speaker 4: The legends at the bottom said made and Sweeden not

2330
01:53:26,692 --> 01:53:30,692
Speaker 4: organic either, so we can use the picture. The energy, use, chemicals,

2331
01:53:30,772 --> 01:53:34,652
Speaker 4: machinery and shipping involved laughable, really, although the product itself

2332
01:53:34,732 --> 01:53:35,772
Speaker 4: is quite tasty from berry.

2333
01:53:35,973 --> 01:53:38,852
Speaker 2: Does there need to be some kind of judiciary of

2334
01:53:38,973 --> 01:53:42,172
Speaker 2: a panel of twelve experts that sit down and actually

2335
01:53:42,293 --> 01:53:45,933
Speaker 2: rate it and actually cut through the double speak and

2336
01:53:47,333 --> 01:53:51,213
Speaker 2: such around claims that people make in terms of green washing,

2337
01:53:51,253 --> 01:53:53,133
Speaker 2: because it seems what happens here, like in this one,

2338
01:53:53,452 --> 01:53:57,172
Speaker 2: you have someone that says that they're making their rubbish

2339
01:53:57,213 --> 01:54:00,333
Speaker 2: bags out of ocean plastics. So you just picture it

2340
01:54:00,333 --> 01:54:02,812
Speaker 2: and you go, oh, yeah, that massive plastic island that's

2341
01:54:02,853 --> 01:54:04,652
Speaker 2: out in the middle of the Pacific. They're grabbing those

2342
01:54:04,692 --> 01:54:06,852
Speaker 2: and they're too minute plastic bags. What a fantastic thing

2343
01:54:07,093 --> 01:54:09,732
Speaker 2: to do, But you actually have to investigate that before

2344
01:54:09,772 --> 01:54:12,452
Speaker 2: you find out it's wrong, and should it be the

2345
01:54:12,492 --> 01:54:16,412
Speaker 2: other way around. You have to prove your green claims

2346
01:54:16,772 --> 01:54:19,053
Speaker 2: before you can put them on your product. Well i'm

2347
01:54:19,093 --> 01:54:21,412
Speaker 2: glad you like you do with you know, drugs.

2348
01:54:21,652 --> 01:54:24,173
Speaker 4: Yeah, well I'm glad you've said that, because by twenty

2349
01:54:24,253 --> 01:54:27,692
Speaker 4: twenty six, there's going to be a European Union wide

2350
01:54:27,732 --> 01:54:30,732
Speaker 4: ban on generic buzzwords like ECO that will come into

2351
01:54:31,133 --> 01:54:33,772
Speaker 4: into forcing companies wanting to make those claims about the

2352
01:54:33,812 --> 01:54:37,252
Speaker 4: sustainability credentials of their products will need to submit evidence

2353
01:54:37,573 --> 01:54:42,413
Speaker 4: to an approve certification scheme and panel. What that means

2354
01:54:42,653 --> 01:54:44,613
Speaker 4: is is a shopping You're able to shop with confidence

2355
01:54:44,653 --> 01:54:46,772
Speaker 4: because you know that everything that ended up on the

2356
01:54:46,853 --> 01:54:49,613
Speaker 4: shelves has been veta vetted if they say ECO.

2357
01:54:49,653 --> 01:54:50,133
Speaker 5: So there you go.

2358
01:54:50,253 --> 01:54:52,093
Speaker 3: You should go work for the European Union.

2359
01:54:52,253 --> 01:54:52,453
Speaker 11: Yeah.

2360
01:54:52,533 --> 01:54:56,253
Speaker 2: Yeah, that makes me disgusted at my idea reading that. Yuck,

2361
01:54:56,973 --> 01:55:02,012
Speaker 2: that sounds like a horrible, horrible, horrible kind of red

2362
01:55:02,053 --> 01:55:02,852
Speaker 2: tape nightmare.

2363
01:55:02,933 --> 01:55:05,453
Speaker 4: You don't like that to at a scheme that's just

2364
01:55:05,573 --> 01:55:07,052
Speaker 4: tying things up on a lot of red tape.

2365
01:55:07,573 --> 01:55:10,533
Speaker 2: Hi guys not allowed plastic bags as a customer, but

2366
01:55:10,653 --> 01:55:13,132
Speaker 2: their retailer can purchase plastic bags and put their products

2367
01:55:13,173 --> 01:55:15,533
Speaker 2: in them onto the shelves, which is just a joke.

2368
01:55:15,653 --> 01:55:16,293
Speaker 3: I mean, it is an.

2369
01:55:16,253 --> 01:55:20,133
Speaker 2: Interesting thing when you're carrying out a whole potal, big

2370
01:55:20,173 --> 01:55:23,933
Speaker 2: plastic pottle of dishwashing powder and you're carrying out in

2371
01:55:23,973 --> 01:55:26,012
Speaker 2: a paper bag.

2372
01:55:26,693 --> 01:55:26,892
Speaker 19: Ah.

2373
01:55:27,013 --> 01:55:29,173
Speaker 2: Anyway, let's put this topic to be Thank you so

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01:55:29,293 --> 01:55:31,972
Speaker 2: much for listening to Matt and Tyler Afternoons. The complete

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01:55:32,013 --> 01:55:34,053
Speaker 2: show podcast will be out in about half an hour.

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01:55:34,133 --> 01:55:37,733
Speaker 2: In case you missed anything on sex ed, facial recognition tech,

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01:55:37,853 --> 01:55:40,892
Speaker 2: or green washing. We had some great calls. See tomorrow

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01:55:41,373 --> 01:55:45,013
Speaker 2: for another edition of Matt and Tyler Afternoons on z B.

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01:55:45,173 --> 01:55:47,772
Speaker 2: The Great and Powerful Heather d See Allen is up next.

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Speaker 3: Until we see you again.

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01:55:49,693 --> 01:56:10,613
Speaker 19: Give them a taste it keiw for us, it's a

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01:56:10,733 --> 01:56:12,613
Speaker 19: fucking flows to bring.

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Speaker 1: For more from Used talkst B, listen live on air

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01:56:27,413 --> 01:56:30,053
Speaker 1: or online, and keep our shows with you wherever you

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01:56:30,173 --> 01:56:32,573
Speaker 1: go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio