1
00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:04,160
Speaker 1: The government has reiterated its plan to encourage a third

2
00:00:04,200 --> 00:00:07,360
Speaker 1: player into the grocery sector. They're open to proposals, with

3
00:00:07,400 --> 00:00:10,959
Speaker 1: lots of talk centering on an international entry to the market.

4
00:00:11,200 --> 00:00:14,200
Speaker 1: The plan is to remove regulations that discourage new supermarkets

5
00:00:14,200 --> 00:00:17,680
Speaker 1: and help new entrants access land. Former CEO of what

6
00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:20,960
Speaker 1: is now the Food and Grocery Council, Ernie Newman, joins me, Now,

7
00:00:20,960 --> 00:00:22,240
Speaker 1: thanks for your time this morning.

8
00:00:22,120 --> 00:00:23,600
Speaker 2: Ernie, well impressive.

9
00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:28,240
Speaker 1: Do you think we will attract international players with these moves?

10
00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:32,760
Speaker 2: Honestly, no, I think the time has passed. I think

11
00:00:32,800 --> 00:00:35,640
Speaker 2: the good thing is that nichol and Willison's all of

12
00:00:35,680 --> 00:00:37,559
Speaker 2: a sudden to put competition right at the top of

13
00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:41,560
Speaker 2: her priority live. But you know, we have enough supermarkets

14
00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:43,920
Speaker 2: in New Zealand anyway. The problem we have is the

15
00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:47,440
Speaker 2: concentration of ownership. So the correct solution to this at

16
00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:49,479
Speaker 2: this point of time is to break up what we have.

17
00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:53,080
Speaker 1: Okay, So if the government is serious about creating competition,

18
00:00:53,720 --> 00:00:56,000
Speaker 1: they should be taking a look at the current industry.

19
00:00:56,720 --> 00:01:00,120
Speaker 2: Absolutely, they need to dust off the falls from the

20
00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:03,160
Speaker 2: the breakup of telecom and go down that track. And

21
00:01:03,480 --> 00:01:05,560
Speaker 2: it can be done. There's plenty of you know, the

22
00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:09,360
Speaker 2: international precedent for that sort of thing when competition comes unstuck.

23
00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:11,240
Speaker 2: And we're welling to really past that point now.

24
00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:14,440
Speaker 1: So what would they look like, Ernie, if you were

25
00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:16,080
Speaker 1: breaking up the drop we already have.

26
00:01:16,720 --> 00:01:19,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you take if you take the food stuff's group,

27
00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:21,520
Speaker 2: for example, you know they've got pack and saved, they've

28
00:01:21,520 --> 00:01:25,039
Speaker 2: got New World, they've got four square. They're all different

29
00:01:25,400 --> 00:01:29,080
Speaker 2: what they call banot groups, and they present them as

30
00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:31,959
Speaker 2: though they're competitors, but everybody knows they're not. You know,

31
00:01:32,040 --> 00:01:34,720
Speaker 2: there's one one mister bigg at the head of all

32
00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:37,600
Speaker 2: is who decides, you know, what the price today of

33
00:01:38,319 --> 00:01:40,840
Speaker 2: potatoes will be at each of those into those stores.

34
00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:45,360
Speaker 2: What we need is genuine competition where they are, they're

35
00:01:45,360 --> 00:01:50,240
Speaker 2: completely independently own and they're dealing independently with customers and

36
00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:54,200
Speaker 2: with suppliers. So that's that's the best solute and it's

37
00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:55,240
Speaker 2: perfectly achievable.

38
00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:57,360
Speaker 1: So for example, Ernie, if you had food stuff, you

39
00:01:57,520 --> 00:01:59,520
Speaker 1: turn them into three seven ts to have you knew World,

40
00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:00,800
Speaker 1: you pack and say in your four square and need

41
00:02:00,840 --> 00:02:01,840
Speaker 1: compete against each other.

42
00:02:02,360 --> 00:02:04,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'd be slightly more ambitious and to them before

43
00:02:04,640 --> 00:02:07,880
Speaker 2: because there's a wholesale operation, and that needs to be

44
00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:10,520
Speaker 2: split out as well. So that's the ideal to go

45
00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:13,480
Speaker 2: four ways. But any step down that path, whether it's

46
00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:16,720
Speaker 2: just splitting out one of them or we're all three,

47
00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:19,919
Speaker 2: or including wholesale, any step in that direction, I think

48
00:02:19,960 --> 00:02:22,160
Speaker 2: it's going to be a lot more productive than hoping

49
00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:24,760
Speaker 2: that somehow a new entrant is going to turn up.

50
00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:27,360
Speaker 1: And is there anything else that we can do? We

51
00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:29,920
Speaker 1: want great competition with what we already have. Is there

52
00:02:29,919 --> 00:02:31,639
Speaker 1: anything else that the government could be looking at?

53
00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:34,880
Speaker 2: I really don't believe. So. I mean, they talk about,

54
00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:37,440
Speaker 2: you know, removing regulation and making it easier for a

55
00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:41,280
Speaker 2: new entrant. You know, we arguably have too many supermarkets already,

56
00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:44,200
Speaker 2: so why would a new entrant come? And again, it's

57
00:02:44,280 --> 00:02:48,360
Speaker 2: the kind of duopoly that we have sitting here just

58
00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:52,120
Speaker 2: about the impossible. We're just about an impenetrable market. They can

59
00:02:52,160 --> 00:02:56,720
Speaker 2: afford to wait for months or years to basically burn

60
00:02:56,800 --> 00:03:00,520
Speaker 2: up a new entrant simply with a price war, So

61
00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:03,840
Speaker 2: that won't work. It is the breakup that is the

62
00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:04,560
Speaker 2: way to go on this.

63
00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:07,600
Speaker 1: So, Annie, why do you think the talk is centering

64
00:03:07,600 --> 00:03:10,240
Speaker 1: around international beds rather than looking at what we can

65
00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:11,359
Speaker 1: you know already have here.

66
00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:16,280
Speaker 2: I think because perhaps the government is a bit scared,

67
00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:24,400
Speaker 2: particularly with the influence of the zand of the ACT Party. Sorry,

68
00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:27,799
Speaker 2: I think you know they're worried about criticism that you know,

69
00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:30,200
Speaker 2: they're in fearing in the in the role of business

70
00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:33,440
Speaker 2: and whatever. But I don't believe that holds water. You know,

71
00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:36,200
Speaker 2: you get to a point where competition is broken too,

72
00:03:36,480 --> 00:03:39,040
Speaker 2: to the stage that that is the only action you

73
00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:39,520
Speaker 2: can take.

74
00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:42,400
Speaker 1: Do you think there are genuine proposals from a third party?

75
00:03:43,520 --> 00:03:47,640
Speaker 2: I'd love to think so. I wouldn't be surprised. The

76
00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:51,160
Speaker 2: question is whether it's a big enough scale to make

77
00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:54,560
Speaker 2: a difference to the market and to survive long term.

78
00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:57,360
Speaker 1: Annie Newman, really appreciate your time this morning. Thank you

79
00:03:57,400 --> 00:03:59,280
Speaker 1: so much for that. That was former CEO of what

80
00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:01,440
Speaker 1: is now the Mod and Grocery Council.

81
00:04:02,760 --> 00:04:05,040
Speaker 2: For more from Early Edition with Ryan Bridge.

82
00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:08,560
Speaker 1: Listen live to News Talks it Be from five am weekdays,

83
00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:10,840
Speaker 1: or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.