1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,160 Speaker 1: New benefit sanctions come into force from today. They're non financial, 2 00:00:03,279 --> 00:00:05,320 Speaker 1: so half of your benefit will be put on a 3 00:00:05,360 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: payment card for four weeks. You can only buy essential stuff. 4 00:00:09,080 --> 00:00:12,200 Speaker 1: You can't buy things like alcohol and tobacco. You can 5 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:14,520 Speaker 1: also be made to do up to five hours of 6 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:18,239 Speaker 1: community work experience, but it's only if you breach your obligations. 7 00:00:18,280 --> 00:00:18,480 Speaker 2: Right. 8 00:00:18,520 --> 00:00:21,479 Speaker 1: Phil O'Riley is the former Welfare Expert Advisory Group member 9 00:00:21,480 --> 00:00:24,400 Speaker 1: with us This Morning fel Good morning money. Right does 10 00:00:24,440 --> 00:00:26,560 Speaker 1: this actually work? This stuff? 11 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:32,360 Speaker 2: Certainly, sanctions do work. Exactly how well they work is 12 00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:35,240 Speaker 2: always open to debate. They work for two reasons. One 13 00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:38,839 Speaker 2: is they encourage people to get off the benefit. But secondly, 14 00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:41,080 Speaker 2: very importantly for people like you and me who are 15 00:00:41,479 --> 00:00:44,319 Speaker 2: paying tax in order to give persons a befefort, they 16 00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:46,159 Speaker 2: keep our face in the system too, that if you're 17 00:00:46,159 --> 00:00:47,960 Speaker 2: going to be if you're not going to play by 18 00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:49,040 Speaker 2: the rules, there's going to be a bit of a 19 00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:51,600 Speaker 2: sanction on you. So they do actually work in mostly 20 00:00:51,680 --> 00:00:52,720 Speaker 2: context here and. 21 00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:54,520 Speaker 1: If you read the news you would get the impression 22 00:00:54,520 --> 00:00:56,680 Speaker 1: that everybody's going to be put on a paying card tomorrow. 23 00:00:56,720 --> 00:00:59,640 Speaker 1: In fact, only ninety eight wealth ninety eight percent of 24 00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:02,520 Speaker 1: benefit stories are actually fine. Only two tend to breach 25 00:01:02,600 --> 00:01:03,400 Speaker 1: the retegations. 26 00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:06,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. I mean most people what we found 27 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:07,800 Speaker 2: in the worldare expert advisor. We work a few years 28 00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:09,800 Speaker 2: ago was most people actually do try and get a job. 29 00:01:09,800 --> 00:01:11,679 Speaker 2: And of course right now the harder to get a job, 30 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:14,640 Speaker 2: so it's turning up to interviews and so on, and 31 00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:16,400 Speaker 2: so I think you know that this is quite a 32 00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:18,560 Speaker 2: small minority, very small minority as matter of fact, and 33 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:22,320 Speaker 2: it's only one part of the sanctioned regime. And what 34 00:01:22,360 --> 00:01:26,160 Speaker 2: I like about the card issue Ryan in particular, is 35 00:01:26,319 --> 00:01:29,520 Speaker 2: in the past, taking money off of beneficiary often means 36 00:01:29,800 --> 00:01:31,720 Speaker 2: you're actually taking it off the kid of the beneficiary 37 00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:33,120 Speaker 2: of the child, or the wife or the husband of 38 00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:36,240 Speaker 2: the beneficiary of the partner. This way, you're not taking 39 00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:39,200 Speaker 2: any money away. You're simply sort of proscribing how it 40 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:41,360 Speaker 2: might be. And I think that's actually a very sensible 41 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:43,920 Speaker 2: way of doing it, because the worriesome thing about taking 42 00:01:43,920 --> 00:01:45,679 Speaker 2: money off dealers it might as you hurt kids, and 43 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:48,640 Speaker 2: that's that's all. It's problematic. The work obligation piece is 44 00:01:48,640 --> 00:01:51,560 Speaker 2: a little bit more interesting in the sense that in 45 00:01:51,640 --> 00:01:54,160 Speaker 2: order to work, obligation to work you've got an employer 46 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:56,360 Speaker 2: who wants to employ you, and if you're forced to 47 00:01:56,360 --> 00:01:58,080 Speaker 2: get to work for a community organization, that might be 48 00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:01,000 Speaker 2: a little more problematic. I think those two things alone, 49 00:02:01,160 --> 00:02:04,640 Speaker 2: used expeditiously and new sensibly, I think we'll have an impact. 50 00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:06,960 Speaker 1: Job seeking numbers have gone up, of course, twenty one 51 00:02:07,440 --> 00:02:09,959 Speaker 1: eleven point six percent in March on the same time 52 00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:12,880 Speaker 1: last year. Looking at the budget unemployment data that they're 53 00:02:12,880 --> 00:02:15,440 Speaker 1: projecting it, I mean it's going it's coming down, but 54 00:02:15,480 --> 00:02:18,200 Speaker 1: it's taking its time, right, so we will rightly see 55 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:22,600 Speaker 1: more on the job seeker benefit or no massive increase 56 00:02:22,639 --> 00:02:23,120 Speaker 1: for a while. 57 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:26,840 Speaker 2: That's correct, And that's the whole point about the unemployment 58 00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:29,560 Speaker 2: benefit system more generally, it's a shopping zuber in the economy. 59 00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:32,280 Speaker 2: As you get the economy slowing down, as you get 60 00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:34,600 Speaker 2: more people out of work, of course we should all 61 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:37,320 Speaker 2: support those people and make sure that they're not left 62 00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:39,040 Speaker 2: on the street and all the rest of it. And 63 00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:40,959 Speaker 2: so that's really what's happening with the job seeker benefit. 64 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:43,880 Speaker 2: It's simply an indication that the jobs in the economy 65 00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:46,240 Speaker 2: are hard to come by. What should hope is that 66 00:02:46,440 --> 00:02:50,519 Speaker 2: as we see interest rates reductions as we see changes 67 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:55,040 Speaker 2: to that capital gains, so the capital tax issue coming through. 68 00:02:55,080 --> 00:02:57,240 Speaker 2: Over the next few months, hopefully we'll see the economy 69 00:02:57,280 --> 00:02:58,919 Speaker 2: start to pick up. And that's exactly when you get 70 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:01,280 Speaker 2: those job numbers coming down. Nothing much you can do 71 00:03:01,320 --> 00:03:02,760 Speaker 2: about it, it's just a nature of the economy. 72 00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:04,960 Speaker 1: There was a faux part. Don't say capital games text. 73 00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:09,760 Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us this morning, fellow Riley, 74 00:03:09,880 --> 00:03:11,680 Speaker 1: former welfare expert Advisory Group MEMBA. 75 00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:15,560 Speaker 2: For more from early edition with Ryan Bridge, Listen live 76 00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:18,680 Speaker 2: to news Talks it'd be from five am weekdays, or 77 00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:20,639 Speaker 2: follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.