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Speaker 1: New research around vaping and rules. University of Otigo sent

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Speaker 1: out a twenty year old to buy some vapes in Wellington.

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Speaker 1: Only half the stores asked for ID, A third solder

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Speaker 1: person the bape anyway when ID wasn't provided. Also, almost

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Speaker 1: all the stores sold disposable vapes without required nicotine limits,

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Speaker 1: replaceable batteries or child safety mechanisms. Now the emeritus professor

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Speaker 1: and ASH chairman, Robert Bigelhole is with us. Robert, very

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Speaker 1: good morning to you.

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Speaker 2: Good morning.

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Speaker 1: So it's a classic example of a rule that's not

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Speaker 1: adhered to. I could argue that it was never going

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Speaker 1: to be. Is that fair or not?

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Speaker 2: I think that is fair, Mike, this is a helpful study.

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Speaker 2: This is not a new problem. We've known about it

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Speaker 2: for a long time. In fact, there's only been one

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Speaker 2: prosecution of an illegal sales ever. So this is a

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Speaker 2: serious problem that we should say that only one and

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Speaker 2: Frow's young vapors by their own vapes at shops.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, see, how are you going to get around that?

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Speaker 1: And you can't. There's no law that can prevent you

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Speaker 1: getting somebody to do the dirty work on your behalf exactly.

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Speaker 2: And that's what's happening. So this is important. We need

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Speaker 2: better compliance, we need better enforcement, but it won't stop

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Speaker 2: underage vaping. There's other things we need to do.

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Speaker 1: What do we need to do well?

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Speaker 2: I think the one thing about the rules, they need

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Speaker 2: to be clear. There's a lot of ambiguity about the rules.

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Speaker 2: The rules have not been developed in association with the

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Speaker 2: manufacturers or the sellers. The regulatory authority needs to get

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Speaker 2: on side that people are actually selling these dapes and

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Speaker 2: making them. That's number one. Number two, we have to

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Speaker 2: stop punishing young people who vape illegally. We tend in

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Speaker 2: the past to expel them from school. We've put cameras

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Speaker 2: in their toilets, just unbelievably inappropriate ways of dealing for

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Speaker 2: the young people's problem. We need to get alongside the kids.

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Speaker 2: We need proper educational health promotion campaigns in schools who

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Speaker 2: do exist, they're out run by the drug foundas and

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Speaker 2: the support of other Ministry of education, by the police,

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Speaker 2: by to fat or. This needs to be standard. We

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Speaker 2: would deal with alcohol thinking, which is a much more

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Speaker 2: serious than the life state problem.

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Speaker 1: Having said that, actually, let me ask you this in totality,

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Speaker 1: do you reckon that the vaping epidemic, which it's become

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Speaker 1: is the equal of the tobacco problem we did have.

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Speaker 2: Or not two things totally unequal. It's not an epidemic,

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Speaker 2: Mike of vaping ten percent of fourteen and fifteen year

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Speaker 2: olds daily, it's a serious problem. We don't want it.

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Speaker 2: It's not an epidemic. We're not losing a generation of

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Speaker 2: young people's vaping. But put that aside, the five thousand

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Speaker 2: people who die every year from smoking. We've got to

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Speaker 2: get the balance right. We have to help adults who

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Speaker 2: smoke stop. They need daping.

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Speaker 1: All right, Robert, appreciate your time, Robert Bigelhole, Emeritus Professor

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Speaker 1: Tuman of.

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Speaker 2: The Ash Group.

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