1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,360 Speaker 1: The US has criticized US for sanctions on Israel. Winston 2 00:00:03,360 --> 00:00:06,480 Speaker 1: Peters joined our allies, Australia, Canada, you name it, banning 3 00:00:06,519 --> 00:00:09,719 Speaker 1: Israel's finance minister and national security minister from traveling here. 4 00:00:09,760 --> 00:00:12,959 Speaker 1: But the US has now denounced these sanctions and says 5 00:00:13,119 --> 00:00:15,560 Speaker 1: we should instead be focused on from US. Robert Petman, 6 00:00:15,680 --> 00:00:19,200 Speaker 1: international relations professor, with me this morning, Morning Robert, Good 7 00:00:19,200 --> 00:00:22,880 Speaker 1: morning Ryan. How does this should we worry about repercussions 8 00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:24,520 Speaker 1: from the US or is this just talk. 9 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:30,280 Speaker 2: We may to be seen? The thing is that the 10 00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:32,920 Speaker 2: status quo, the situation as it is at the moment, 11 00:00:33,520 --> 00:00:38,199 Speaker 2: it's just not sustainable. You've got after the shocking Hamas 12 00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:43,360 Speaker 2: attack on the seventh October twenty twenty three, when twelve 13 00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:46,960 Speaker 2: hundred Israelis or so were killed, we subsequently had what 14 00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:51,320 Speaker 2: mister Neechnia who calls a campaign a mighty vengeance in goals, 15 00:00:51,360 --> 00:00:54,920 Speaker 2: in which more than fifty four thousand Palestinians, many of 16 00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:59,080 Speaker 2: a substantial number of whom had nothing to do with Hamas, 17 00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:01,840 Speaker 2: have been killed. So and there's no seaside of the 18 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:06,040 Speaker 2: word as a humanitarian blockade that has been reimposed since 19 00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:11,800 Speaker 2: early March with a million Palestines facing starvation. Given this situation, 20 00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:14,840 Speaker 2: and given the fact that Israel has not responded to 21 00:01:14,959 --> 00:01:18,640 Speaker 2: verbal appeals to lift the humanitarian blockade, I think that 22 00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:22,160 Speaker 2: countries that want a two state solution, and mister Nickna, 23 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:25,600 Speaker 2: who doesn't want a two state solution, have little option 24 00:01:25,959 --> 00:01:30,640 Speaker 2: but to show some serious statement of intentmen that that 25 00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:31,720 Speaker 2: starts with sanctions. 26 00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:34,840 Speaker 1: Ninna has turned around basically middle fingered. This will we 27 00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:36,000 Speaker 1: get more sanctions. 28 00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:41,520 Speaker 2: It's possible, and it's also possible the sanctions have been widened. 29 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:45,399 Speaker 2: There's a lot of strength of feeling in manyly liberal democracies. 30 00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:48,680 Speaker 2: The United States is not a disinterested observer when it 31 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:51,440 Speaker 2: comes to the conflict between the Palestinians and the Israelis, 32 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:54,760 Speaker 2: and it's I think it's been a weakness and a 33 00:01:54,760 --> 00:01:57,639 Speaker 2: failure of US leadership. The situation has got to this point. 34 00:01:57,960 --> 00:02:00,600 Speaker 2: Shouldn't be forgotten that the US is exercise the veto 35 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:07,000 Speaker 2: five times in un Securities Council to thwart a ceasefire 36 00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:10,880 Speaker 2: when the overwhelming majorities and we're talking about more than 37 00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:12,880 Speaker 2: one hundred and forty members the ow in General Assembly, 38 00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:16,800 Speaker 2: actually want a ceasefire. So this, in a sense, the 39 00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:21,480 Speaker 2: US has perpetuated this conflicts been It's provided about four 40 00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:24,600 Speaker 2: fifths the munitions that Israel has used in the conflict. 41 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:28,840 Speaker 2: You know, the US is not a disinterested observer in this, 42 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:31,480 Speaker 2: and in the sense I think the other liberal democracies 43 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:34,640 Speaker 2: are beginning to push back now and say, look, international 44 00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:38,040 Speaker 2: law is important and we have to we have to 45 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:42,519 Speaker 2: uphold it and talk alone. It's clearly not working. 46 00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:45,120 Speaker 1: No, So yeah, are you in obviously Hamstrong? I mean 47 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:48,640 Speaker 1: totally useless. And Trump's you know, Trump is criticizing US 48 00:02:48,639 --> 00:02:51,200 Speaker 1: for banning a couple of Israeli ministers who aren't going 49 00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:53,720 Speaker 1: to travel here anyway. So what hope do we have 50 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:55,639 Speaker 1: that he's actually going to I mean, whokey is does 51 00:02:55,680 --> 00:02:57,320 Speaker 1: he listen to the international community? 52 00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:03,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, but matters a war and peace shouldn't rest just 53 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:06,280 Speaker 2: on the shoulders of mister Trump, and he doesn't get 54 00:03:06,320 --> 00:03:08,960 Speaker 2: it right on everything. And the fact of the matter 55 00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:11,600 Speaker 2: is you can't stand by while war crimes are being 56 00:03:11,639 --> 00:03:16,000 Speaker 2: committed on a daily basis with impunity. And I think 57 00:03:16,680 --> 00:03:19,600 Speaker 2: the majority of people in the world would like to 58 00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:22,920 Speaker 2: see a much more authoritative mechanism for dealing with conflicts 59 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:26,720 Speaker 2: like this, and I think it's not going to happen. 60 00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:30,280 Speaker 2: You know, you mentioned that the UN Security Council is 61 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:34,040 Speaker 2: pretty user. I agree it's useless because five members of 62 00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:37,360 Speaker 2: the UN Security Council use and abuse something called the 63 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:41,400 Speaker 2: veto privilege, and that's got to stop. But you know, 64 00:03:41,600 --> 00:03:44,440 Speaker 2: Uzine's been against the veto since Peter Fraser back in 65 00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:47,320 Speaker 2: the forties. But what I'm saying here is that Ryan 66 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:51,000 Speaker 2: sanctions may be a tentative start, and they may be belated. 67 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:53,840 Speaker 2: I think they are very late, but you've got to 68 00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:56,480 Speaker 2: if you're serious about bringing about a two state solution, 69 00:03:56,840 --> 00:03:59,920 Speaker 2: and Nenijo has always ruled out a two state solution, 70 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:02,960 Speaker 2: you actually have to start with some measure that shows 71 00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:05,800 Speaker 2: that you're not prepared to go on just accepting the 72 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:08,600 Speaker 2: status quo, and so many people are suffering so horribly. 73 00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:12,480 Speaker 1: Appreciate your time this morning. Robert Petman, international relations professaid 74 00:04:13,320 --> 00:04:13,880 Speaker 1: for more. 75 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:17,119 Speaker 2: From earlier edition with Ryan Bridge. Listen live to News Talks. 76 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:20,440 Speaker 2: It'd be from five am weekdays, or follow the podcast 77 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:21,400 Speaker 2: on iHeartRadio.