Speaker 1: Curt Koto, Welcome to Shared Lunch on Garth Bray. Every
Speaker 1: week we're all about enabling people to make better wealth choices,
Speaker 1: and so this week we're with someone who's a fellow
Speaker 1: traveler on that journey, someone else who's just as pumped
Speaker 1: about helping other people work out whether at where they
Speaker 1: need to get to next and how to take action
Speaker 1: on that next step.
Speaker 2: If I can plant seeds for people, they might be
Speaker 2: able to see a future that they couldn't see. I
Speaker 2: think we get ourselves caught in these like we want
Speaker 2: to time everything perfectly and we don't want to be
Speaker 2: the one that's lost a bit of money or whatever
Speaker 2: it may be.
Speaker 1: It's Luke Kemmi's the people's accountant, the host of Keep
Speaker 1: the Change. Before we get to him, though, some important
Speaker 1: information you should always consider when investing.
Speaker 3: Investing involves the risk you might lose the money you
Speaker 3: start with. We recommend talking to a licensed financial advisor.
Speaker 3: We also recommend breading product disclosure documents before deciding to invest.
Speaker 3: Everything you're about to see and here is current at the.
Speaker 4: Time of recording.
Speaker 1: Keevy's Welcome to the Chasi's Dojo. You no stranger to
Speaker 1: the mix and no stranger to the topics when I checked.
Speaker 1: So you're a podcast host, a business strategist, and you're
Speaker 1: also a fellow charted accountant. Yeah, congratulations, I think what
Speaker 1: is that? What is a fellow charted accountant? And maybe more?
Speaker 4: Why? Yeah, thank you. So I got into accounting.
Speaker 2: I enjoyed math and numbers and the economy and therefore
Speaker 2: accounting when I was at school, and yeah, I've sort
Speaker 2: of built out a career in that space. And then
Speaker 2: the fellowship comes when you use your charted accounting experience
Speaker 2: and knowledge to give back to the community and go
Speaker 2: a bit above and beyond and really apply yourself, so
Speaker 2: to speak. So one of the youngest to receive it,
Speaker 2: which is pretty cool.
Speaker 1: Because that sounds like something you do towards the end
Speaker 1: of the career when you've made away your bucks, you've
Speaker 1: made all your decisions, you've set yourself up for success,
Speaker 1: but you've kind of done it all at once.
Speaker 4: Yeah, along the way, well part of it.
Speaker 2: You know, often you'll see accountants will go out and
Speaker 2: they might be on boards, they might be helping out
Speaker 2: in school environments and bought of trustee roles and things
Speaker 2: like that. I was kind of looking at it, going
Speaker 2: how can I take my skill set and apply it
Speaker 2: to the here and now? And part of that for
Speaker 2: me is education and trying to help people with some
Speaker 2: of the things that I've learned. So yeah, I could
Speaker 2: probably see it coming at some stage, but probably Yeah,
Speaker 2: pretty lucky to be recognized early on.
Speaker 1: So I guess that's a lot of what Cheesy's is
Speaker 1: trying to do, right. It's all about trying to empower
Speaker 1: people to make better wealth choices and give them the
Speaker 1: access to opportunities to sort of weigh them up. Is
Speaker 1: that a little bit about what you've been trying to
Speaker 1: do with how you're advising people.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So for me, I look at it as Okay,
Speaker 2: if I can plant seeds for people, they might be
Speaker 2: able to see a future that they couldn't see before
Speaker 2: reading something, before listening to the podcast, watching the video.
Speaker 2: And you know, we talk a bit about role modeling
Speaker 2: and needing more role models in the country, And I
Speaker 2: don't mean I need to be that role model. I
Speaker 2: mean can we find people and tell their stories that
Speaker 2: other people can learn from and go, oh, well, I
Speaker 2: could be doing that. So a very quick example today,
Speaker 2: for instance, I spoke to somebody who went down the
Speaker 2: property route and got rent to properties and things like that,
Speaker 2: and they've decided to actually, you know, get out of
Speaker 2: that route and go down the business route. So they've
Speaker 2: built up equity and now they're going to buy a business,
Speaker 2: and now they're looking for education and how.
Speaker 4: Do I do this better? How do I get it right?
Speaker 4: How do I protect my investment?
Speaker 2: And they decided to do that off of the back
Speaker 2: of listening to some of the Keep the Change podcasts
Speaker 2: where they're like, oh, okay, that's an avenue that I
Speaker 2: hadn't even considered. So wherever anybody is that in their journey,
Speaker 2: I hope they can take a lesson and then apply.
Speaker 4: It to their life.
Speaker 1: Keep the Change tell me about that.
Speaker 2: So I used to go and get breakfast in the
Speaker 2: morning after the gym, and I had a twenty dollar
Speaker 2: note most of the time, and I would say, can
Speaker 2: I be SA have postdiggs on toast with salmon, And
Speaker 2: it was nineteen dollars. It sounds like it's nineteen eighty,
Speaker 2: but I promise it wasn't. That's how bad Infati's been.
Speaker 2: And I would get the dollar back and I would think, right,
Speaker 2: I would say, keep the change and I'd let them
Speaker 2: keep the dollar, and it just stuck with me. It
Speaker 2: was I was trying to teach myself abundance that you know,
Speaker 2: i'd probably gone through and lived it in an upbringing
Speaker 2: of like, Okay, you've got to hold on to every
Speaker 2: penny tight and be very careful and things like that.
Speaker 2: I was trying to teach myself a bit of you
Speaker 2: know what, there's plenty of money in the world. If
Speaker 2: you do good things, if you add value, it'll come back.
Speaker 2: So sort of almost forcing myself to let go of
Speaker 2: a little bit of it to then trust myself that
Speaker 2: I could get it back, and so that didn't have
Speaker 2: as much of a hold over me.
Speaker 4: And that's where, yeah, the name came.
Speaker 1: From thinking about that and thinking about how people maybe
Speaker 1: can be more financially empowered in someone. What do you
Speaker 1: think of some of the strongest forces that hold people
Speaker 1: back from that?
Speaker 2: Well, honestly, and this sounds really tough, but I think
Speaker 2: it's a lack of action. So we don't actually want
Speaker 2: to do the things that we inherently know we probably
Speaker 2: need to be doing them, so we will instead of
Speaker 2: saving a dollar of a week a dollar a week
Speaker 2: to create a savings habit. We'll say I don't have
Speaker 2: enough money to save or to invest, and so then
Speaker 2: we tell ourselves that we are not an investor. But
Speaker 2: it's very easy for me to say because he's now
Speaker 2: got a lot of money or whatever. So you know,
Speaker 2: we don't lean into the actions that we know we
Speaker 2: need to take. And I think life has become so
Speaker 2: easy for us in so many different ways now, which
Speaker 2: sounds very tough in an economic environment like this, that
Speaker 2: people have gone before us and broken down these barriers.
Speaker 2: Set up key we saver, set up sheers e's, set
Speaker 2: up platforms for us to sell things online, set up
Speaker 2: ways for us to be able to lease our properly
Speaker 2: out for a long weekend and make a bit of
Speaker 2: extra money. Everyone's coming and doing this for us, and
Speaker 2: we're sitting there going, ah, can't be me, And so
Speaker 2: I don't know what that is. Why don't we step
Speaker 2: to our start line and run our race, not keep
Speaker 2: comparing ourselves to other people running their race and think, oh, well,
Speaker 2: you know, I could never achieve what they're doing. Therefore
Speaker 2: I'm not going to start my own.
Speaker 1: Because I've heard of like analysis paralysis for almost like
Speaker 1: you're standing in the shop which sort of cereal or whatever,
Speaker 1: you know, you kind of there are so many choices,
Speaker 1: so many possible courses of action. Some people get into
Speaker 1: that kind of trap too, where they're just wanting to
Speaker 1: make a better decision and they never quite get to one. Right,
Speaker 1: But you're saying it's more fundamental people just they learn
Speaker 1: the learnings, but they don't actually follow through and do
Speaker 1: the do.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think for a lot of people. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but part of it probably is that analysis paralysis. We
Speaker 2: are part of it too. I think is then goes
Speaker 2: back to psychology of if I make this choice, I
Speaker 2: make this choice and I get it wrong. A, you've
Speaker 2: got to live with that. B. If you believe money's
Speaker 2: hard to come by, well, you know, do you want
Speaker 2: to take a risk? Because A you've got to own
Speaker 2: that you made the decision to do it. And then secondly,
Speaker 2: you know, how do you get it back if you
Speaker 2: do get it wrong? And I think a lot of
Speaker 2: us are pretty risk averse.
Speaker 1: How do you break down the risks for people so
Speaker 1: that they can actually take a risk that's the right
Speaker 1: size for them. Is that part of it?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 2: I think you've got to individually understand how much risk
Speaker 2: you're willing to take. So whether you're doing a mundy
Speaker 2: personality type test and googling those and learning a bit
Speaker 2: more about yourself. You know.
Speaker 4: I was talking to a good friend yesterday.
Speaker 2: He's at the stage of his journey where he is
Speaker 2: going to be doing debt recycling, so he's borrowing money
Speaker 2: to invest into the stock market, and he's like, I'm
Speaker 2: going in at all time high as you know, what's
Speaker 2: going to happen. I'm going to copy twenty percent, you know,
Speaker 2: fall in it. And so who's already worrying about this?
Speaker 2: And I said, well, mate, let's say it's one hundred grand.
Speaker 2: Let's be honest. If that one hundred becomes eighty, is
Speaker 2: your life going to be dramatically different? And you know
Speaker 2: it's a good point. I said, that's the same thing.
Speaker 2: If that one hundred becomes one hundred and twenty, is
Speaker 2: your life going to be dramatically different to how it is?
Speaker 2: And no, Mike, So just zoom out from it and think, Okay,
Speaker 2: what is the risk that I'm taking at the moment,
Speaker 2: and can I make more sense of that over a
Speaker 2: longer time period, Because I think we get ourselves caught
Speaker 2: in these like we want to time everything perfectly, and
Speaker 2: we don't want to be the one that's lost a
Speaker 2: bit of money or whatever it may be. But you've
Speaker 2: got to you know where you are on that journey.
Speaker 2: I think for a lot of people, if they're getting
Speaker 2: starting started with investing, they are you know, if say
Speaker 2: you're investing, I'll say to someone you know they might invest.
Speaker 4: Five hundred dollars.
Speaker 2: If that's five point fifty and you've got a ten
Speaker 2: percent return at the end of this twelve months, is
Speaker 2: that fifty dollars is going to change your life?
Speaker 4: No, let's be honest.
Speaker 2: So the risk and even the reward isn't as big
Speaker 2: as we make it out to be. So then don't
Speaker 2: then take that and go okay, well, then don't do anything.
Speaker 4: What happens.
Speaker 2: I think when you start investing a larger number, then
Speaker 2: that increment increases or decreases have more meaning to us,
Speaker 2: and then we really start to take it seriously. But
Speaker 2: it's and that's why there's so much content about that
Speaker 2: first one hundred thousand dollars and like getting to that
Speaker 2: and seeing it snowball.
Speaker 1: It's great to say, have a plan for the first
Speaker 1: hundred k, but if you're worried about the price of butter,
Speaker 1: and a lot of people seem to be. And if
Speaker 1: you're worried about the cost of living, if you're really
Speaker 1: focused on how much rent you're paying rather than your income,
Speaker 1: how do you bridge that gap?
Speaker 2: Well, firstly, there's a word in there that doesn't help us, right, worry.
Speaker 2: Nothing good comes when we're constantly worried about something. So
Speaker 2: as part of the change, I've gone and found people
Speaker 2: that might help us understand what's going on up here right,
Speaker 2: And you know, you see things like ninety percent of
Speaker 2: our thoughts are the same as yesterday and then the
Speaker 2: day before that, and eighty percent of them are negative
Speaker 2: as well. So your brain is fighting against you with
Speaker 2: negative information constantly. So I think even just acknowledging that
Speaker 2: and going, oh, it's okay to keep thinking about this. However,
Speaker 2: action is the antidote to anxiety. So what are we
Speaker 2: going to have to do. We're actually going to have
Speaker 2: to do something, and that's tough because I think we
Speaker 2: don't want it to be in our control. But a
Speaker 2: big part of my teaching is basically, you're going to
Speaker 2: have to find ways to increase your income because there's
Speaker 2: only so much like, okay, review your subscriptions and find
Speaker 2: the cheapest provider and whatnot you can do, and that
Speaker 2: should be you know, a yearly practice.
Speaker 1: Stop handing back that dollar to the people that just
Speaker 1: sold you the very cheap salmon and eggs.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then focus on Okay, we're too from here,
Speaker 2: what's my plan? What resources do I have? What options
Speaker 2: do I have? But you know, if you're stuck in
Speaker 2: that survival mode, it's a tough place to be. And
Speaker 2: I think a lot of us have probably been there where,
Speaker 2: you know, trying to pay off a credit card or
Speaker 2: just get buying things, but you know it's a bit brutal,
Speaker 2: but no one's coming to do it for you. And
Speaker 2: I think I had to have that realization too, if
Speaker 2: I could see my life could look a lot different
Speaker 2: to what it was, but I was getting in the way,
Speaker 2: and a lot of it was my unwillingness to take
Speaker 2: that action as well. And again, like I know that
Speaker 2: that can sound very frustrating and hard hitting, but we
Speaker 2: don't have to do it straight away, Like we.
Speaker 4: Can go on a journey.
Speaker 2: It could take a year, it could take two years,
Speaker 2: it could take five, but it's better than staying on
Speaker 2: the same path and just getting more worry, anxiety and
Speaker 2: kind of you know, fear that we can't get in
Speaker 2: control of these things.
Speaker 1: How much of that do you think is early years
Speaker 1: for you? Because you did a very bold thing. You
Speaker 1: got your mum on your podcast recently, Yeah, which I
Speaker 1: thought was kudos to you. But that's diving back into
Speaker 1: your own money history as well and your own upbringing.
Speaker 1: So how much of that is given you an insight
Speaker 1: into how it might shape other people's views of money
Speaker 1: and their agency, their ability to actually take an action.
Speaker 2: Yeah, massively for me, and like and I acknowledge that,
Speaker 2: and I can see that, and I think I grew
Speaker 2: up in a very resourceful household, so because there wasn't
Speaker 2: a lot, it was like, how do we stretch this further?
Speaker 2: And then the journey I was going on as I
Speaker 2: got older, I'm like, oh, wow, there's an abundance out there.
Speaker 2: I can learn from my past, but I can you know,
Speaker 2: take it and change it to achieve things that I
Speaker 2: once you know, never thought possible or wouldn't be possible
Speaker 2: if I didn't take those actions. So I've sort of
Speaker 2: had to go on that June as well. The thing
Speaker 2: that I see a lot of this is a whole,
Speaker 2: big subsection of Kiwi people that could and will have.
Speaker 4: A very different life.
Speaker 2: They just needed a bit of education like I got
Speaker 2: from sixteen studying economics, accounting. Then, you know, doing two
Speaker 2: decades of talking to people in this space and you
Speaker 2: go oh, like all of a sudden, it becomes you're
Speaker 2: a lot more in control of it, and it becomes simpler.
Speaker 2: And now that I'm five years in to keep the change,
Speaker 2: I'm starting to see these people come out and go, oh,
Speaker 2: I applied what you said and it's working. I was
Speaker 2: saying to people, hey, if you know unemployment's going to increase,
Speaker 2: I tell you a great thing to do. Show up
Speaker 2: beyond time. You know, old school. Put your hand up
Speaker 2: so you're here to do. You're willing to do anything extra.
Speaker 2: Get a message from young lady this morning. She's like, hey, company,
Speaker 2: why pay increases three percent? I've been given eight because
Speaker 2: I put my hand up and said, hey, I'm willing
Speaker 2: to go.
Speaker 4: Above and beyond. I'm willing to do mixture and whatnot.
Speaker 2: Like Epic, you know, they've been acknowledged for and rewarded
Speaker 2: for their initiative and their attitude and that's a micro
Speaker 2: decision that.
Speaker 4: Can effectively change the trajectory of their life.
Speaker 2: Because what if they now take that five percent difference
Speaker 2: between the eight and the three and they start dolo
Speaker 2: cost averaging that into a sheer ETF that they've been
Speaker 2: learning about, and all of a sudden, twelve eighteen months later,
Speaker 2: you know, their life is very different.
Speaker 1: That's so interesting that people are reaching out to you
Speaker 1: with those examples, you're obviously connecting with them. What are
Speaker 1: some other things that you're consistently hearing that people are
Speaker 1: either doing to get past it, or maybe there are
Speaker 1: obstacles that they're really struggling with.
Speaker 2: Well, I think the narrative out there at the moment
Speaker 2: is that it's really tough, there's no money out there.
Speaker 2: But I'm constantly reminding people there is so much money
Speaker 2: out there, and what has changed is that it's accumulated
Speaker 2: at the older demographic right because they've been here for longer.
Speaker 4: But what do they do with it?
Speaker 2: Term deposits bank accounts, thus sitting on it? Now, what
Speaker 2: are they Well, we're running out of time because we're
Speaker 2: getting older. Therefore we're valuing convenience, and the world's become
Speaker 2: more convenient if you go and offer services to people
Speaker 2: like hey, I'll split your fireward, Hey, I'll paint your fence, whatever,
Speaker 2: mow your lawns for you. There are people every week
Speaker 2: miss to me. We're like, hey, I didn't believe you,
Speaker 2: but honestly, I've just picked up, you know, thirty grand
Speaker 2: worth the work in my neighborhood and whatnot.
Speaker 4: This is crazy.
Speaker 2: I didn't realize that all this money has been sitting
Speaker 2: there the whole time. But that starts with the belief
Speaker 2: that that's even possible, right, because if you look outward
Speaker 2: at the moment, you've basically been told no, like unemployment's high,
Speaker 2: there's no money out there, everything's hard, the economy's broken.
Speaker 2: You probably should move to Australia. I'm fighting the tide
Speaker 2: being like, I don't want you to move to Australia.
Speaker 2: I'm trying to give you some skills where you can
Speaker 2: get in control of your own income. So I think
Speaker 2: that's probably become something I've been really passionate about because
Speaker 2: I've learned more about making money and how it exchanges hands,
Speaker 2: and I don't think people learn about that. So then
Speaker 2: we do default to the cheaper subscription, cheaper power et cetera,
Speaker 2: and don't explore, oh, how can I put another ten
Speaker 2: thousand dollars into the family household? And there are when
Speaker 2: you give yourself a goal and set it there and go, right,
Speaker 2: what if we did.
Speaker 4: Over twelve months?
Speaker 2: You start to realize there's so many different ways that
Speaker 2: you can actually increase your house on income. But first
Speaker 2: you need someone to tell you that it's possible, I think.
Speaker 1: And then there's that great wealth subscription that kiwis love,
Speaker 1: which is just buy a house and subscribe to a
Speaker 1: mortgage and make regular installment payments and you'll come out
Speaker 1: of it at the ends fine, right, And that's how
Speaker 1: that older generation have built up quite a lot of capital,
Speaker 1: and they've wound up in a position where they actually
Speaker 1: have a fair chunk of you know, of wealth to
Speaker 1: put around. Right, But is that a path you think
Speaker 1: that is there for everybody? Now?
Speaker 4: Still for everybody? Probably not? What about you?
Speaker 1: I can talk about you for a second.
Speaker 4: Well, I guess yeah, I'm a good example.
Speaker 2: At the other end, I could have five rental properties
Speaker 2: probably six, and service those I have zero?
Speaker 4: Now why not?
Speaker 2: I find it boring to be honest, Like, I'd rather
Speaker 2: plug my money into you know shares and then just
Speaker 2: get back to focusing on the things that I love doing.
Speaker 4: But you know, I talk to probably people like what
Speaker 4: are you doing? Man like leverage? Leverage, I'm like, there's
Speaker 4: leverage is one. There are many ways to leverage things.
Speaker 2: You can leverage skills, your time, audience, experience, like it
Speaker 2: can go wider. So I, yeah, I probably just don't
Speaker 2: find property that interesting for me. And what I often
Speaker 2: do have all decisions is like walk down the path. Okay,
Speaker 2: if I invest into this company and it goes to zero,
Speaker 2: can I live with that?
Speaker 4: Like yep, Okay, I can own that decision.
Speaker 2: Make it faster, carry on. Okay, if I buy a property,
Speaker 2: what does that look like? Okay, then I'm going to
Speaker 2: have a tenant. Well, I'll be frustrated if something does
Speaker 2: break you so probably will because I can't fix things.
Speaker 2: Look at these hands. So I'm not a DIY guy.
Speaker 2: So then I'm gonna have to pay for that. That's
Speaker 2: going to decrease my returns on that. But I'm not
Speaker 2: saying that, you know, people shouldn't be investing into property.
Speaker 2: I just think maybe we got a little bit too
Speaker 2: flippant with the advice that that was the way to
Speaker 2: do it, and now we've got to pay the price
Speaker 2: for a little bit where house prices are really high
Speaker 2: and people aren't then educated as to the other options
Speaker 2: that they could have.
Speaker 1: Do you, though, look at that property journey that other
Speaker 1: people are on and get a bit of fomo or
Speaker 1: you a no fomo guy, you've already walked down the
Speaker 1: road and go, look I'm fine.
Speaker 2: This or not at the moment, obviously with how flat
Speaker 2: it is. But I mean in twenty twenty one, I
Speaker 2: was thinking, oh, maybe I should having you build, and
Speaker 2: you know what, yeah, so yeah, I fall into the
Speaker 2: same traps that other people do. I think what I've
Speaker 2: seen and observed across businesses, across personal investments, as soon
Speaker 2: as you start leveraging yourself with you're like in need
Speaker 2: of every dollar.
Speaker 4: Of your income.
Speaker 2: I look at that and go ooh, you're like now
Speaker 2: you're compromised and life gets harder because you need something
Speaker 2: to work out. And I think we saw that with people,
Speaker 2: you know, leveraging right up in twenty twenty one, like
Speaker 2: we should think back and go The will was closing
Speaker 2: down because of a pandemic, and what were we doing?
Speaker 2: We were going to open homes like that seems pretty
Speaker 2: bizarre looking back, right, what was it all about? And
Speaker 2: so I think fomo was so high and now it's
Speaker 2: kind of gone back the other way, and I think
Speaker 2: I would like to just see it stay there for
Speaker 2: a bit so that people aren't as pressured to sort
Speaker 2: of get on the ladder make the decision quickly. You'll
Speaker 2: be left behind. You're gonna miss out, and you've got
Speaker 2: this natural wave. Okay, well maybe I'm not as successful
Speaker 2: in society if I'm not doing it and whatnot. I
Speaker 2: think at the moment we get a chance to redo
Speaker 2: that conversation and go Actually, that doesn't define success. That
Speaker 2: it's very important to have somewhere to live, obviously, don't
Speaker 2: get me wrong, But it's not. You know, it's not
Speaker 2: the be all and end all of life.
Speaker 1: You took before about people taking a big risk and
Speaker 1: buying businesses. That seems like a really really high risk strategy, right,
Speaker 1: because you're not. It's a little bit like buying your
Speaker 1: own home and living in it and hoping that it's
Speaker 1: going to improve. But you've now put a lot of
Speaker 1: eggs into this basket, into this particular set of circumstances,
Speaker 1: working out it's not going to be for everyone.
Speaker 2: Right, but you're more in control of it and that's
Speaker 2: what I like about it. But again, that won't be
Speaker 2: for everyone. The good thing of property that people like
Speaker 2: is that you can kind of buy in and then go, Okay, well,
Speaker 2: I'll sit back and log onto homes or whatever.
Speaker 4: And see what it's worth.
Speaker 2: Business you've got to turn the screws, you've got to
Speaker 2: improve the asset value, and you're directly getting rewarded.
Speaker 4: For the work that you do.
Speaker 2: So there's a large demand for businesses to be purchased.
Speaker 2: At the moment, big wave of that one and two
Speaker 2: business owners is over the age of fifty. We've got
Speaker 2: a becoming I wouldn't want to call it a crisis,
Speaker 2: but I think we're ignoring how big of an issue
Speaker 2: that's going to be as a country.
Speaker 4: Do they shut down? Do they sell?
Speaker 3: So?
Speaker 2: Asia Pacific average is twenty eight percent of businesses over
Speaker 2: the age of fifty.
Speaker 4: We're one and two.
Speaker 2: So what does an older demographic of business owners do. Well,
Speaker 2: they're least likely to export, they're least likely to innovate,
Speaker 2: and they're least likely to implement technology. Now, what think
Speaker 2: three things that the politicians tell us are amazing for
Speaker 2: a country export innovation and technology. So we lag behind
Speaker 2: in the Asia Pacific region. In those areas, we were
Speaker 2: ranked tenth and eleventh in the survey that they do
Speaker 2: each year. And why would they be risk one when
Speaker 2: it's been so tough for the last five years and
Speaker 2: they get into the end of their journey. Now, the
Speaker 2: positive to that is it creates a massive opportunity. I
Speaker 2: spoke to a business owner this morning. They've gotten out
Speaker 2: of the properly jouney. They've got into the business journey.
Speaker 2: I see, what's the database? Like, oh yeah, I've got
Speaker 2: about three and a half thousand customers in a Excel spreadsheet.
Speaker 2: I'm like, okay, But at least we've got the data there,
Speaker 2: like they can ever CRM. They can use that to
Speaker 2: run ads to those people. We can start doing some
Speaker 2: analysis on who they are, we can start emailing them.
Speaker 2: There is opportunity in that database. And if you are
Speaker 2: getting tighter by the end of your business, junior, you're
Speaker 2: probably not going to be pushing harder as somebody who's
Speaker 2: a bit younger. So that's going to be fascinating for
Speaker 2: us to watch play out. But there's more opportunity there
Speaker 2: then people probably realize but you've got to be the
Speaker 2: right sort of person.
Speaker 1: People talk about the interview enerational great wealth transfer. This
Speaker 1: is a part of that from the sound of it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And are they going to pass it to their
Speaker 2: kids or are they gonna like close that wealth down.
Speaker 2: It's going to I think some wealth will effectively be
Speaker 2: deleted because people just go, we're gonna we're gonna wind
Speaker 2: this up. But maybe a few years ago that business
Speaker 2: was worth something. And you know, even back to property
Speaker 2: as well, you've got property in business that people have
Speaker 2: used as their retirement plan. But now they're getting to
Speaker 2: that time and going, okay, well our property are sorry,
Speaker 2: our capital is now stuck. So we might see the
Speaker 2: mvent and should have new finance products, you know, reverse
Speaker 2: mortgages that people are more accepting of. I was reading
Speaker 2: in France they have something called it is a voyager
Speaker 2: or something. You buy the property from the person in
Speaker 2: the here and now, but they continue to live there,
Speaker 2: and you negotiate the price and so you unlock some
Speaker 2: of your capital. So and then you know vendor finance
Speaker 2: in the business space. So yes, the business owner might
Speaker 2: stay on and have to be well paid out over
Speaker 2: the next five years or whatever the dealer is. So
Speaker 2: it's going to be more work for the AI lawyers
Speaker 2: or the lawyers, depending if the lawyers don't get wiped
Speaker 2: out by AI.
Speaker 1: Change the tech a little bit. I mean, what do
Speaker 1: you see here?
Speaker 2: I see billions of dollars of yellow paper, and they
Speaker 2: hopes and dreams of people every Saturday Wednesday. And one
Speaker 2: of the things that I learned reading their angle report
Speaker 2: is the higher that jackpot, the more people will go
Speaker 2: and buy it, which sounds very simple. So for them
Speaker 2: to do a lot of turnover, they want a number
Speaker 2: of high jackpots in a financial year because the big
Speaker 2: number drags everybody to play.
Speaker 1: All right, the national disparation indexes. Some people around my
Speaker 1: way call it anyway, this is not a winning ticket.
Speaker 4: Sorry, you're going to get it to man, how many
Speaker 4: were you are welcome to?
Speaker 1: Because it's not worth a penny.
Speaker 2: I look at lotto as actually like a voluntary redistribution
Speaker 2: of wealth. Like people willingly go and take their money
Speaker 2: and probably know, well, I'm not going to get this back,
Speaker 2: but I can't remember this percentage that stays and goes
Speaker 2: into community groups and stuff like that. But I'm surprised
Speaker 2: because New Zealand seems a little bit anti gambling but
Speaker 2: very accepting of lotto.
Speaker 1: There was a story it caught my eye. I think
Speaker 1: might have been one of the radio stations R and Z.
Speaker 1: We're talking about how if you're spending twenty five bucks
Speaker 1: a week, well, I guess that's two twelve dollars tickets
Speaker 1: and you do that over forty five years something like
Speaker 1: fifty eight grand. That's not even counting appreciation or anything
Speaker 1: like that that you could have saved if you chuck
Speaker 1: it in, you know, and after tax, after fee return
Speaker 1: four and a half percent, it's compounding, it's going to
Speaker 1: be like one hundred and eighty nine thousand dollars. That
Speaker 1: starts to sound like a really substantial amount of money,
Speaker 1: and yet so many people would still rather just go, oh,
Speaker 1: we have a flutter or you know, got to be
Speaker 1: in it to win. Is that a healthy thing? Is
Speaker 1: that just human nature? Or is that something we have
Speaker 1: to change? What's going on there?
Speaker 2: Well, I think it just shows our delayed gratification, right
Speaker 2: versus our instant gratification. And to risk twenty five dollars
Speaker 2: to potentially win twenty million, it probably sounds like to
Speaker 2: psychology epic. I've got to have a go at that
Speaker 2: I've watched my parents do it for you know, a
Speaker 2: lot of their life. And you know, now we've probably
Speaker 2: got a generation of people that are like gambling in
Speaker 2: a different format, whether it is actually like online doing something,
Speaker 2: or like gambling with their future income.
Speaker 4: So I E. I will use a payment.
Speaker 2: Provider this is what we'll call it, which is effectively
Speaker 2: a form of credit, and I'll pay it back over
Speaker 2: the next six installments or whatnot. So I think we're
Speaker 2: just seeing like instant gratification turn up in our lives,
Speaker 2: like easier and easier and just about.
Speaker 4: Everywhere we look.
Speaker 2: But all these things that are easy in our life
Speaker 2: normally come at a cost eventually.
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, fair point. Crypt I don't know what your
Speaker 1: thoughts are on Crypto. It seems like one of those
Speaker 1: things that five minutes ago everybody said was a terrible idea,
Speaker 1: and now suddenly everybody's woken up and gone, hang on,
Speaker 1: this actually could be something. I mean, is that a
Speaker 1: conversation that the people that you relate to and make
Speaker 1: content to and talk to, is that something they're talking about.
Speaker 1: Is it in their mindset? Or is it not something
Speaker 1: that they're even on about.
Speaker 2: I think it's another good example where some people are
Speaker 2: seeing forms of crypto as gambling, and so they won't
Speaker 2: be interested in lotto or a casino or something, but
Speaker 2: they go, oh, I've heard about this thing, and if
Speaker 2: we all get into it, and it could pop off
Speaker 2: and I put my thousand dollars and it's going to
Speaker 2: become worth six, but your thousand could be come worth
Speaker 2: zero as well. Like how much do we really know
Speaker 2: about it? I think there's a big difference between bitcoin
Speaker 2: and the people who really get into that space and crypto.
Speaker 2: I don't know a lot about crypto, but you know,
Speaker 2: I've kind of focused my understanding on bitcoin and why
Speaker 2: people are so interested in bitcoin over this last five years.
Speaker 2: What I've noticed is that there's a massive increase in
Speaker 2: understanding of how the purchasing power of our dollar is
Speaker 2: losing its value. So we might not go on the
Speaker 2: Reserve bank inflation calculator and run the numbers, but when
Speaker 2: someone says, oh, butter's now cost this, we go there
Speaker 2: is crap, how can this happen? And so people have gone, well,
Speaker 2: what can I do? And I think those people are
Speaker 2: seeing bitcoin as a store of wealth in a way
Speaker 2: to kind of exit some of the impact that they're
Speaker 2: feeling on the other side, where they're watching money get
Speaker 2: created and then lose its value, and they go, Okay,
Speaker 2: this looks like a life raft they might call it,
Speaker 2: or a different form of technology and solution. I'm going
Speaker 2: to learn more about it. I'm going to back my education.
Speaker 2: I'm going to put some money into bitcoin to protect
Speaker 2: myself from the losing value of the New Zealand dollar
Speaker 2: or whatever. Right, But you could also argue, but that's
Speaker 2: why people brought property, and that's why people invest in shares,
Speaker 2: because we're all trying to beat inflation and so that
Speaker 2: our dollar that we do have that will work so
Speaker 2: hard for isn't becoming worth even less. And maybe bitcoin
Speaker 2: and crypto is just the new wave of people understanding
Speaker 2: there and learning about that. Now, if it helps increase education, amazing.
Speaker 2: Will people be scammed and taken advantage of and whatnot?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Probably because you know, humans were looking for a quick
Speaker 2: win or whatnot. So you know, that's the dangerous side
Speaker 2: of it that I think people need to accept the
Speaker 2: decisions that they're making or be very educated before hitting
Speaker 2: transfer money somewhere.
Speaker 1: I guess that trust part is hugely important, right is
Speaker 1: who are you dealing with and how can you trust that?
Speaker 1: Because people will know, okay, you can buy a house,
Speaker 1: and there are the these are the ways that it
Speaker 1: could fall apart. These are the reports you can get.
Speaker 1: You know, if you're dealing with a real estate agent,
Speaker 1: they've got a history, you can check that out. There's
Speaker 1: a trust path you can follow. For the crypto part,
Speaker 1: it seems like maybe there are fewer trust paths around,
Speaker 1: or maybe maybe I'm just not across all of them.
Speaker 2: Well, when I first brought crypto, it was twenty twenty,
Speaker 2: but I'll take your back.
Speaker 4: So it was twenty seventeen.
Speaker 2: I was working in an accounting office and bitcoin is
Speaker 2: bubbling again, and a client came in and said, oh, hey,
Speaker 2: I got given a bitcoin when I was traveling in Europe.
Speaker 2: I need to cash it in. I was like, oh,
Speaker 2: my mates are talking about that, and said to my
Speaker 2: boss and he's like, oh, I see if they'll buy it.
Speaker 2: And next thing they are in the car drive into
Speaker 2: the accounting practice and they've got a group of them
Speaker 2: pulled together their cash and like it, we'll bite off
Speaker 2: the client I'm like, what the hell just happened?
Speaker 4: What did they just buy?
Speaker 2: How? What is this twenty twenty? I start kind of thinking, oh,
Speaker 2: what's happening in the world. Maybe I should be buying
Speaker 2: some gold, and I'm self managing my KEYWI save and
Speaker 2: I'm like, hey, I'm going to allocate some to gold,
Speaker 2: and they're like, oh, we don't advise that.
Speaker 4: I'm like, dah, the world's going to fall over.
Speaker 2: I've seen this before, I need to And then I
Speaker 2: start learning about bitcoin. I'm like, these people talking about
Speaker 2: this again, I might buy some. So I go through
Speaker 2: to learn the process and I think, you know, then
Speaker 2: I and I go in my mind, I go, money
Speaker 2: follows attention. If this gets more attention, it will probably
Speaker 2: increase some price. I'm willing to take some risk on it.
Speaker 2: And then I start, you know, just getting back to
Speaker 2: my normal life. And then I see more and more
Speaker 2: we're talking about it, but really intelligent and smart people,
Speaker 2: and I stop and go, why is this thing attracting
Speaker 2: so many bright minds? Like why are some of the
Speaker 2: cleverest people in the world working on this? They either aren't,
Speaker 2: And the whole thing's gonna pop and it's going to
Speaker 2: be like, what were they thinking or they know something?
Speaker 2: And I'm like, I'm not intelligent enough to figure that
Speaker 2: argument out. But I'm going to go along for the
Speaker 2: ride and put some money into bitcoin and understand more
Speaker 2: about it, and if it goes to zero and the
Speaker 2: whole thing pops, I'm going to go, Wow, Okay, maybe
Speaker 2: there's a really good life lesson in there for me.
Speaker 2: If not, at least I backed my own judgment.
Speaker 1: Money makes it matter.
Speaker 4: Eh, Maybe you.
Speaker 1: Put a little skin in the game there and you're
Speaker 1: actually paying a little bit more focused attention. Yes, Wow, fantastic. Look,
Speaker 1: I feel like we've covered a huge amount of ground
Speaker 1: and I just want to pull you for the week
Speaker 1: you're doing and I hope you carry on trying.
Speaker 4: To keep you change.
Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you, thank you, Luke Kemy's for that. Action
Speaker 1: is the antidote to anxiety. Love that thought. We hope
Speaker 1: you found something from that for yourselves. Perfect know who
Speaker 1: you think we should be talking to next and about
Speaker 1: what's to get in touch for us though. Komat