1 00:00:03,360 --> 00:00:06,840 Speaker 1: Curt Koto, Welcome to Shared Lunch on Garth Bray. Every 2 00:00:06,880 --> 00:00:10,520 Speaker 1: week we're all about enabling people to make better wealth choices, 3 00:00:10,600 --> 00:00:13,360 Speaker 1: and so this week we're with someone who's a fellow 4 00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:16,680 Speaker 1: traveler on that journey, someone else who's just as pumped 5 00:00:16,680 --> 00:00:19,680 Speaker 1: about helping other people work out whether at where they 6 00:00:19,760 --> 00:00:22,079 Speaker 1: need to get to next and how to take action 7 00:00:22,320 --> 00:00:23,280 Speaker 1: on that next step. 8 00:00:23,320 --> 00:00:25,160 Speaker 2: If I can plant seeds for people, they might be 9 00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:27,360 Speaker 2: able to see a future that they couldn't see. I 10 00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:29,880 Speaker 2: think we get ourselves caught in these like we want 11 00:00:29,880 --> 00:00:32,519 Speaker 2: to time everything perfectly and we don't want to be 12 00:00:32,560 --> 00:00:34,800 Speaker 2: the one that's lost a bit of money or whatever 13 00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:35,400 Speaker 2: it may be. 14 00:00:35,680 --> 00:00:39,760 Speaker 1: It's Luke Kemmi's the people's accountant, the host of Keep 15 00:00:39,760 --> 00:00:42,640 Speaker 1: the Change. Before we get to him, though, some important 16 00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:45,159 Speaker 1: information you should always consider when investing. 17 00:00:45,400 --> 00:00:47,960 Speaker 3: Investing involves the risk you might lose the money you 18 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:51,279 Speaker 3: start with. We recommend talking to a licensed financial advisor. 19 00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:55,840 Speaker 3: We also recommend breading product disclosure documents before deciding to invest. 20 00:00:56,080 --> 00:00:58,639 Speaker 3: Everything you're about to see and here is current at the. 21 00:00:58,560 --> 00:00:59,360 Speaker 4: Time of recording. 22 00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:03,240 Speaker 1: Keevy's Welcome to the Chasi's Dojo. You no stranger to 23 00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:06,200 Speaker 1: the mix and no stranger to the topics when I checked. 24 00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:10,280 Speaker 1: So you're a podcast host, a business strategist, and you're 25 00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:15,399 Speaker 1: also a fellow charted accountant. Yeah, congratulations, I think what 26 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:18,759 Speaker 1: is that? What is a fellow charted accountant? And maybe more? 27 00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:21,640 Speaker 4: Why? Yeah, thank you. So I got into accounting. 28 00:01:21,640 --> 00:01:24,880 Speaker 2: I enjoyed math and numbers and the economy and therefore 29 00:01:24,880 --> 00:01:28,200 Speaker 2: accounting when I was at school, and yeah, I've sort 30 00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:30,160 Speaker 2: of built out a career in that space. And then 31 00:01:30,200 --> 00:01:34,200 Speaker 2: the fellowship comes when you use your charted accounting experience 32 00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:36,560 Speaker 2: and knowledge to give back to the community and go 33 00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:40,080 Speaker 2: a bit above and beyond and really apply yourself, so 34 00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:42,320 Speaker 2: to speak. So one of the youngest to receive it, 35 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:43,320 Speaker 2: which is pretty cool. 36 00:01:43,440 --> 00:01:45,400 Speaker 1: Because that sounds like something you do towards the end 37 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:47,039 Speaker 1: of the career when you've made away your bucks, you've 38 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:49,480 Speaker 1: made all your decisions, you've set yourself up for success, 39 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:51,720 Speaker 1: but you've kind of done it all at once. 40 00:01:52,120 --> 00:01:54,000 Speaker 4: Yeah, along the way, well part of it. 41 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:56,320 Speaker 2: You know, often you'll see accountants will go out and 42 00:01:56,320 --> 00:01:58,200 Speaker 2: they might be on boards, they might be helping out 43 00:01:58,200 --> 00:02:01,800 Speaker 2: in school environments and bought of trustee roles and things 44 00:02:01,880 --> 00:02:03,320 Speaker 2: like that. I was kind of looking at it, going 45 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:05,880 Speaker 2: how can I take my skill set and apply it 46 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:08,280 Speaker 2: to the here and now? And part of that for 47 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:11,400 Speaker 2: me is education and trying to help people with some 48 00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:13,600 Speaker 2: of the things that I've learned. So yeah, I could 49 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:15,959 Speaker 2: probably see it coming at some stage, but probably Yeah, 50 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:18,360 Speaker 2: pretty lucky to be recognized early on. 51 00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:20,919 Speaker 1: So I guess that's a lot of what Cheesy's is 52 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:22,760 Speaker 1: trying to do, right. It's all about trying to empower 53 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:25,560 Speaker 1: people to make better wealth choices and give them the 54 00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:29,760 Speaker 1: access to opportunities to sort of weigh them up. Is 55 00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:31,560 Speaker 1: that a little bit about what you've been trying to 56 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:33,840 Speaker 1: do with how you're advising people. 57 00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:35,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, So for me, I look at it as Okay, 58 00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:37,400 Speaker 2: if I can plant seeds for people, they might be 59 00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:39,960 Speaker 2: able to see a future that they couldn't see before 60 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:43,040 Speaker 2: reading something, before listening to the podcast, watching the video. 61 00:02:43,639 --> 00:02:45,720 Speaker 2: And you know, we talk a bit about role modeling 62 00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:48,360 Speaker 2: and needing more role models in the country, And I 63 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:50,440 Speaker 2: don't mean I need to be that role model. I 64 00:02:50,480 --> 00:02:53,520 Speaker 2: mean can we find people and tell their stories that 65 00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:55,800 Speaker 2: other people can learn from and go, oh, well, I 66 00:02:55,840 --> 00:02:58,440 Speaker 2: could be doing that. So a very quick example today, 67 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:00,760 Speaker 2: for instance, I spoke to somebody who went down the 68 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:03,440 Speaker 2: property route and got rent to properties and things like that, 69 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:05,840 Speaker 2: and they've decided to actually, you know, get out of 70 00:03:05,840 --> 00:03:07,960 Speaker 2: that route and go down the business route. So they've 71 00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:10,079 Speaker 2: built up equity and now they're going to buy a business, 72 00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:12,440 Speaker 2: and now they're looking for education and how. 73 00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:13,919 Speaker 4: Do I do this better? How do I get it right? 74 00:03:13,919 --> 00:03:15,160 Speaker 4: How do I protect my investment? 75 00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:18,280 Speaker 2: And they decided to do that off of the back 76 00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:20,160 Speaker 2: of listening to some of the Keep the Change podcasts 77 00:03:20,160 --> 00:03:21,920 Speaker 2: where they're like, oh, okay, that's an avenue that I 78 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:25,240 Speaker 2: hadn't even considered. So wherever anybody is that in their journey, 79 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:27,560 Speaker 2: I hope they can take a lesson and then apply. 80 00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:28,040 Speaker 4: It to their life. 81 00:03:28,320 --> 00:03:29,800 Speaker 1: Keep the Change tell me about that. 82 00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:32,280 Speaker 2: So I used to go and get breakfast in the 83 00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:34,760 Speaker 2: morning after the gym, and I had a twenty dollar 84 00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:36,640 Speaker 2: note most of the time, and I would say, can 85 00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:38,800 Speaker 2: I be SA have postdiggs on toast with salmon, And 86 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:41,680 Speaker 2: it was nineteen dollars. It sounds like it's nineteen eighty, 87 00:03:41,720 --> 00:03:44,240 Speaker 2: but I promise it wasn't. That's how bad Infati's been. 88 00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:46,840 Speaker 2: And I would get the dollar back and I would think, right, 89 00:03:47,080 --> 00:03:48,640 Speaker 2: I would say, keep the change and I'd let them 90 00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:50,640 Speaker 2: keep the dollar, and it just stuck with me. It 91 00:03:50,720 --> 00:03:53,080 Speaker 2: was I was trying to teach myself abundance that you know, 92 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:56,320 Speaker 2: i'd probably gone through and lived it in an upbringing 93 00:03:56,320 --> 00:03:58,040 Speaker 2: of like, Okay, you've got to hold on to every 94 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 2: penny tight and be very careful and things like that. 95 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:01,560 Speaker 2: I was trying to teach myself a bit of you 96 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:03,080 Speaker 2: know what, there's plenty of money in the world. If 97 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:06,280 Speaker 2: you do good things, if you add value, it'll come back. 98 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:09,040 Speaker 2: So sort of almost forcing myself to let go of 99 00:04:09,080 --> 00:04:11,640 Speaker 2: a little bit of it to then trust myself that 100 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:13,160 Speaker 2: I could get it back, and so that didn't have 101 00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:14,240 Speaker 2: as much of a hold over me. 102 00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:16,320 Speaker 4: And that's where, yeah, the name came. 103 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:20,760 Speaker 1: From thinking about that and thinking about how people maybe 104 00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:23,440 Speaker 1: can be more financially empowered in someone. What do you 105 00:04:23,440 --> 00:04:26,400 Speaker 1: think of some of the strongest forces that hold people 106 00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:26,960 Speaker 1: back from that? 107 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:30,080 Speaker 2: Well, honestly, and this sounds really tough, but I think 108 00:04:30,080 --> 00:04:33,480 Speaker 2: it's a lack of action. So we don't actually want 109 00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:36,239 Speaker 2: to do the things that we inherently know we probably 110 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:38,560 Speaker 2: need to be doing them, so we will instead of 111 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:40,440 Speaker 2: saving a dollar of a week a dollar a week 112 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:42,599 Speaker 2: to create a savings habit. We'll say I don't have 113 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:44,880 Speaker 2: enough money to save or to invest, and so then 114 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:48,159 Speaker 2: we tell ourselves that we are not an investor. But 115 00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:50,440 Speaker 2: it's very easy for me to say because he's now 116 00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:52,480 Speaker 2: got a lot of money or whatever. So you know, 117 00:04:52,520 --> 00:04:55,880 Speaker 2: we don't lean into the actions that we know we 118 00:04:55,920 --> 00:04:58,479 Speaker 2: need to take. And I think life has become so 119 00:04:58,760 --> 00:05:01,080 Speaker 2: easy for us in so many different ways now, which 120 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:03,960 Speaker 2: sounds very tough in an economic environment like this, that 121 00:05:04,120 --> 00:05:06,400 Speaker 2: people have gone before us and broken down these barriers. 122 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:09,320 Speaker 2: Set up key we saver, set up sheers e's, set 123 00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:11,919 Speaker 2: up platforms for us to sell things online, set up 124 00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:13,599 Speaker 2: ways for us to be able to lease our properly 125 00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:14,960 Speaker 2: out for a long weekend and make a bit of 126 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:17,800 Speaker 2: extra money. Everyone's coming and doing this for us, and 127 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:20,320 Speaker 2: we're sitting there going, ah, can't be me, And so 128 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:23,080 Speaker 2: I don't know what that is. Why don't we step 129 00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:26,320 Speaker 2: to our start line and run our race, not keep 130 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:29,239 Speaker 2: comparing ourselves to other people running their race and think, oh, well, 131 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:31,479 Speaker 2: you know, I could never achieve what they're doing. Therefore 132 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:32,760 Speaker 2: I'm not going to start my own. 133 00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:36,240 Speaker 1: Because I've heard of like analysis paralysis for almost like 134 00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:38,560 Speaker 1: you're standing in the shop which sort of cereal or whatever, 135 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:40,920 Speaker 1: you know, you kind of there are so many choices, 136 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:43,560 Speaker 1: so many possible courses of action. Some people get into 137 00:05:43,560 --> 00:05:45,719 Speaker 1: that kind of trap too, where they're just wanting to 138 00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:48,000 Speaker 1: make a better decision and they never quite get to one. Right, 139 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:50,880 Speaker 1: But you're saying it's more fundamental people just they learn 140 00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:52,800 Speaker 1: the learnings, but they don't actually follow through and do 141 00:05:52,839 --> 00:05:53,080 Speaker 1: the do. 142 00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:55,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think for a lot of people. Yeah, 143 00:05:55,560 --> 00:05:57,920 Speaker 2: but part of it probably is that analysis paralysis. We 144 00:05:57,960 --> 00:05:59,920 Speaker 2: are part of it too. I think is then goes 145 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:03,320 Speaker 2: back to psychology of if I make this choice, I 146 00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:05,640 Speaker 2: make this choice and I get it wrong. A, you've 147 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:08,040 Speaker 2: got to live with that. B. If you believe money's 148 00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:10,560 Speaker 2: hard to come by, well, you know, do you want 149 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:12,920 Speaker 2: to take a risk? Because A you've got to own 150 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:15,479 Speaker 2: that you made the decision to do it. And then secondly, 151 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:17,479 Speaker 2: you know, how do you get it back if you 152 00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:18,919 Speaker 2: do get it wrong? And I think a lot of 153 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:20,560 Speaker 2: us are pretty risk averse. 154 00:06:20,839 --> 00:06:23,280 Speaker 1: How do you break down the risks for people so 155 00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:25,640 Speaker 1: that they can actually take a risk that's the right 156 00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:27,160 Speaker 1: size for them. Is that part of it? 157 00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:27,880 Speaker 4: Yeah? 158 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:30,640 Speaker 2: I think you've got to individually understand how much risk 159 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:32,480 Speaker 2: you're willing to take. So whether you're doing a mundy 160 00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:35,680 Speaker 2: personality type test and googling those and learning a bit 161 00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:36,720 Speaker 2: more about yourself. You know. 162 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:38,120 Speaker 4: I was talking to a good friend yesterday. 163 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:40,599 Speaker 2: He's at the stage of his journey where he is 164 00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:43,080 Speaker 2: going to be doing debt recycling, so he's borrowing money 165 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:45,760 Speaker 2: to invest into the stock market, and he's like, I'm 166 00:06:45,760 --> 00:06:47,479 Speaker 2: going in at all time high as you know, what's 167 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:49,760 Speaker 2: going to happen. I'm going to copy twenty percent, you know, 168 00:06:49,880 --> 00:06:52,039 Speaker 2: fall in it. And so who's already worrying about this? 169 00:06:52,080 --> 00:06:54,080 Speaker 2: And I said, well, mate, let's say it's one hundred grand. 170 00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:57,359 Speaker 2: Let's be honest. If that one hundred becomes eighty, is 171 00:06:57,360 --> 00:07:00,520 Speaker 2: your life going to be dramatically different? And you know 172 00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:02,440 Speaker 2: it's a good point. I said, that's the same thing. 173 00:07:02,440 --> 00:07:04,159 Speaker 2: If that one hundred becomes one hundred and twenty, is 174 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:06,480 Speaker 2: your life going to be dramatically different to how it is? 175 00:07:06,640 --> 00:07:10,600 Speaker 2: And no, Mike, So just zoom out from it and think, Okay, 176 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:12,840 Speaker 2: what is the risk that I'm taking at the moment, 177 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:14,960 Speaker 2: and can I make more sense of that over a 178 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:17,480 Speaker 2: longer time period, Because I think we get ourselves caught 179 00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:20,440 Speaker 2: in these like we want to time everything perfectly, and 180 00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:22,200 Speaker 2: we don't want to be the one that's lost a 181 00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:25,440 Speaker 2: bit of money or whatever it may be. But you've 182 00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:28,280 Speaker 2: got to you know where you are on that journey. 183 00:07:28,320 --> 00:07:30,360 Speaker 2: I think for a lot of people, if they're getting 184 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:34,680 Speaker 2: starting started with investing, they are you know, if say 185 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:37,400 Speaker 2: you're investing, I'll say to someone you know they might invest. 186 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:37,880 Speaker 4: Five hundred dollars. 187 00:07:37,960 --> 00:07:40,240 Speaker 2: If that's five point fifty and you've got a ten 188 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:42,160 Speaker 2: percent return at the end of this twelve months, is 189 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:43,880 Speaker 2: that fifty dollars is going to change your life? 190 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:46,240 Speaker 4: No, let's be honest. 191 00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:49,640 Speaker 2: So the risk and even the reward isn't as big 192 00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:53,160 Speaker 2: as we make it out to be. So then don't 193 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:55,240 Speaker 2: then take that and go okay, well, then don't do anything. 194 00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:56,360 Speaker 4: What happens. 195 00:07:56,400 --> 00:07:59,920 Speaker 2: I think when you start investing a larger number, then 196 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:03,960 Speaker 2: that increment increases or decreases have more meaning to us, 197 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:06,920 Speaker 2: and then we really start to take it seriously. But 198 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:09,200 Speaker 2: it's and that's why there's so much content about that 199 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:11,480 Speaker 2: first one hundred thousand dollars and like getting to that 200 00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:13,000 Speaker 2: and seeing it snowball. 201 00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:15,440 Speaker 1: It's great to say, have a plan for the first 202 00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:18,320 Speaker 1: hundred k, but if you're worried about the price of butter, 203 00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:21,480 Speaker 1: and a lot of people seem to be. And if 204 00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:24,400 Speaker 1: you're worried about the cost of living, if you're really 205 00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:27,480 Speaker 1: focused on how much rent you're paying rather than your income, 206 00:08:28,920 --> 00:08:31,000 Speaker 1: how do you bridge that gap? 207 00:08:31,560 --> 00:08:34,319 Speaker 2: Well, firstly, there's a word in there that doesn't help us, right, worry. 208 00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:37,760 Speaker 2: Nothing good comes when we're constantly worried about something. So 209 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:40,520 Speaker 2: as part of the change, I've gone and found people 210 00:08:40,559 --> 00:08:43,000 Speaker 2: that might help us understand what's going on up here right, 211 00:08:43,040 --> 00:08:45,240 Speaker 2: And you know, you see things like ninety percent of 212 00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:47,480 Speaker 2: our thoughts are the same as yesterday and then the 213 00:08:47,559 --> 00:08:49,959 Speaker 2: day before that, and eighty percent of them are negative 214 00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:52,720 Speaker 2: as well. So your brain is fighting against you with 215 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:56,320 Speaker 2: negative information constantly. So I think even just acknowledging that 216 00:08:56,400 --> 00:09:00,559 Speaker 2: and going, oh, it's okay to keep thinking about this. However, 217 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:03,880 Speaker 2: action is the antidote to anxiety. So what are we 218 00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:05,200 Speaker 2: going to have to do. We're actually going to have 219 00:09:05,280 --> 00:09:08,320 Speaker 2: to do something, and that's tough because I think we 220 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:10,360 Speaker 2: don't want it to be in our control. But a 221 00:09:10,360 --> 00:09:12,959 Speaker 2: big part of my teaching is basically, you're going to 222 00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:15,280 Speaker 2: have to find ways to increase your income because there's 223 00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:17,840 Speaker 2: only so much like, okay, review your subscriptions and find 224 00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:20,400 Speaker 2: the cheapest provider and whatnot you can do, and that 225 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:22,720 Speaker 2: should be you know, a yearly practice. 226 00:09:22,880 --> 00:09:24,800 Speaker 1: Stop handing back that dollar to the people that just 227 00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:26,640 Speaker 1: sold you the very cheap salmon and eggs. 228 00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:29,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, and then focus on Okay, we're too from here, 229 00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:33,320 Speaker 2: what's my plan? What resources do I have? What options 230 00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:35,160 Speaker 2: do I have? But you know, if you're stuck in 231 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:38,880 Speaker 2: that survival mode, it's a tough place to be. And 232 00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:40,680 Speaker 2: I think a lot of us have probably been there where, 233 00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:43,360 Speaker 2: you know, trying to pay off a credit card or 234 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:47,040 Speaker 2: just get buying things, but you know it's a bit brutal, 235 00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:48,760 Speaker 2: but no one's coming to do it for you. And 236 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:50,720 Speaker 2: I think I had to have that realization too, if 237 00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:52,600 Speaker 2: I could see my life could look a lot different 238 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:54,560 Speaker 2: to what it was, but I was getting in the way, 239 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:57,960 Speaker 2: and a lot of it was my unwillingness to take 240 00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:00,760 Speaker 2: that action as well. And again, like I know that 241 00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:03,760 Speaker 2: that can sound very frustrating and hard hitting, but we 242 00:10:03,760 --> 00:10:06,240 Speaker 2: don't have to do it straight away, Like we. 243 00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:07,000 Speaker 4: Can go on a journey. 244 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:08,480 Speaker 2: It could take a year, it could take two years, 245 00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:10,480 Speaker 2: it could take five, but it's better than staying on 246 00:10:10,559 --> 00:10:14,360 Speaker 2: the same path and just getting more worry, anxiety and 247 00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:17,200 Speaker 2: kind of you know, fear that we can't get in 248 00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:18,160 Speaker 2: control of these things. 249 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:20,839 Speaker 1: How much of that do you think is early years 250 00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:23,120 Speaker 1: for you? Because you did a very bold thing. You 251 00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:25,960 Speaker 1: got your mum on your podcast recently, Yeah, which I 252 00:10:25,960 --> 00:10:29,160 Speaker 1: thought was kudos to you. But that's diving back into 253 00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:31,680 Speaker 1: your own money history as well and your own upbringing. 254 00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:34,880 Speaker 1: So how much of that is given you an insight 255 00:10:35,120 --> 00:10:37,400 Speaker 1: into how it might shape other people's views of money 256 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:40,520 Speaker 1: and their agency, their ability to actually take an action. 257 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:43,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, massively for me, and like and I acknowledge that, 258 00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:44,960 Speaker 2: and I can see that, and I think I grew 259 00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:47,760 Speaker 2: up in a very resourceful household, so because there wasn't 260 00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:50,200 Speaker 2: a lot, it was like, how do we stretch this further? 261 00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:53,160 Speaker 2: And then the journey I was going on as I 262 00:10:53,160 --> 00:10:56,160 Speaker 2: got older, I'm like, oh, wow, there's an abundance out there. 263 00:10:56,360 --> 00:11:00,320 Speaker 2: I can learn from my past, but I can you know, 264 00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:03,520 Speaker 2: take it and change it to achieve things that I 265 00:11:03,559 --> 00:11:06,400 Speaker 2: once you know, never thought possible or wouldn't be possible 266 00:11:06,440 --> 00:11:08,280 Speaker 2: if I didn't take those actions. So I've sort of 267 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:10,160 Speaker 2: had to go on that June as well. The thing 268 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:11,920 Speaker 2: that I see a lot of this is a whole, 269 00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:16,200 Speaker 2: big subsection of Kiwi people that could and will have. 270 00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:17,160 Speaker 4: A very different life. 271 00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:20,560 Speaker 2: They just needed a bit of education like I got 272 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:24,040 Speaker 2: from sixteen studying economics, accounting. Then, you know, doing two 273 00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:26,240 Speaker 2: decades of talking to people in this space and you 274 00:11:26,320 --> 00:11:28,800 Speaker 2: go oh, like all of a sudden, it becomes you're 275 00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:30,800 Speaker 2: a lot more in control of it, and it becomes simpler. 276 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:33,280 Speaker 2: And now that I'm five years in to keep the change, 277 00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:35,280 Speaker 2: I'm starting to see these people come out and go, oh, 278 00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:38,160 Speaker 2: I applied what you said and it's working. I was 279 00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:40,960 Speaker 2: saying to people, hey, if you know unemployment's going to increase, 280 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:43,520 Speaker 2: I tell you a great thing to do. Show up 281 00:11:43,840 --> 00:11:46,840 Speaker 2: beyond time. You know, old school. Put your hand up 282 00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:49,320 Speaker 2: so you're here to do. You're willing to do anything extra. 283 00:11:49,679 --> 00:11:53,000 Speaker 2: Get a message from young lady this morning. She's like, hey, company, 284 00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:56,560 Speaker 2: why pay increases three percent? I've been given eight because 285 00:11:56,720 --> 00:11:58,400 Speaker 2: I put my hand up and said, hey, I'm willing 286 00:11:58,400 --> 00:11:58,640 Speaker 2: to go. 287 00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:00,840 Speaker 4: Above and beyond. I'm willing to do mixture and whatnot. 288 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:04,440 Speaker 2: Like Epic, you know, they've been acknowledged for and rewarded 289 00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:08,640 Speaker 2: for their initiative and their attitude and that's a micro 290 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:09,400 Speaker 2: decision that. 291 00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:11,520 Speaker 4: Can effectively change the trajectory of their life. 292 00:12:11,520 --> 00:12:13,880 Speaker 2: Because what if they now take that five percent difference 293 00:12:13,920 --> 00:12:16,040 Speaker 2: between the eight and the three and they start dolo 294 00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:20,560 Speaker 2: cost averaging that into a sheer ETF that they've been 295 00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:23,520 Speaker 2: learning about, and all of a sudden, twelve eighteen months later, 296 00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:25,320 Speaker 2: you know, their life is very different. 297 00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:28,199 Speaker 1: That's so interesting that people are reaching out to you 298 00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:31,160 Speaker 1: with those examples, you're obviously connecting with them. What are 299 00:12:31,160 --> 00:12:34,439 Speaker 1: some other things that you're consistently hearing that people are 300 00:12:34,440 --> 00:12:37,960 Speaker 1: either doing to get past it, or maybe there are 301 00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:39,760 Speaker 1: obstacles that they're really struggling with. 302 00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:41,880 Speaker 2: Well, I think the narrative out there at the moment 303 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:44,199 Speaker 2: is that it's really tough, there's no money out there. 304 00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:47,920 Speaker 2: But I'm constantly reminding people there is so much money 305 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:52,280 Speaker 2: out there, and what has changed is that it's accumulated 306 00:12:52,280 --> 00:12:55,200 Speaker 2: at the older demographic right because they've been here for longer. 307 00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:56,200 Speaker 4: But what do they do with it? 308 00:12:56,320 --> 00:12:59,480 Speaker 2: Term deposits bank accounts, thus sitting on it? Now, what 309 00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:01,920 Speaker 2: are they Well, we're running out of time because we're 310 00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:04,720 Speaker 2: getting older. Therefore we're valuing convenience, and the world's become 311 00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:08,000 Speaker 2: more convenient if you go and offer services to people 312 00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:13,199 Speaker 2: like hey, I'll split your fireward, Hey, I'll paint your fence, whatever, 313 00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:16,160 Speaker 2: mow your lawns for you. There are people every week 314 00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:18,040 Speaker 2: miss to me. We're like, hey, I didn't believe you, 315 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:20,600 Speaker 2: but honestly, I've just picked up, you know, thirty grand 316 00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:22,440 Speaker 2: worth the work in my neighborhood and whatnot. 317 00:13:22,440 --> 00:13:23,120 Speaker 4: This is crazy. 318 00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:25,000 Speaker 2: I didn't realize that all this money has been sitting 319 00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:27,120 Speaker 2: there the whole time. But that starts with the belief 320 00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:29,520 Speaker 2: that that's even possible, right, because if you look outward 321 00:13:29,559 --> 00:13:33,480 Speaker 2: at the moment, you've basically been told no, like unemployment's high, 322 00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:36,079 Speaker 2: there's no money out there, everything's hard, the economy's broken. 323 00:13:36,080 --> 00:13:38,440 Speaker 2: You probably should move to Australia. I'm fighting the tide 324 00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:39,960 Speaker 2: being like, I don't want you to move to Australia. 325 00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:41,600 Speaker 2: I'm trying to give you some skills where you can 326 00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:43,720 Speaker 2: get in control of your own income. So I think 327 00:13:43,880 --> 00:13:46,760 Speaker 2: that's probably become something I've been really passionate about because 328 00:13:46,760 --> 00:13:50,000 Speaker 2: I've learned more about making money and how it exchanges hands, 329 00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:52,440 Speaker 2: and I don't think people learn about that. So then 330 00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:55,640 Speaker 2: we do default to the cheaper subscription, cheaper power et cetera, 331 00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:58,240 Speaker 2: and don't explore, oh, how can I put another ten 332 00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:01,240 Speaker 2: thousand dollars into the family household? And there are when 333 00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:03,520 Speaker 2: you give yourself a goal and set it there and go, right, 334 00:14:03,559 --> 00:14:04,200 Speaker 2: what if we did. 335 00:14:04,120 --> 00:14:04,960 Speaker 4: Over twelve months? 336 00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:07,079 Speaker 2: You start to realize there's so many different ways that 337 00:14:07,120 --> 00:14:09,160 Speaker 2: you can actually increase your house on income. But first 338 00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:11,280 Speaker 2: you need someone to tell you that it's possible, I think. 339 00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:15,400 Speaker 1: And then there's that great wealth subscription that kiwis love, 340 00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:17,840 Speaker 1: which is just buy a house and subscribe to a 341 00:14:17,880 --> 00:14:21,160 Speaker 1: mortgage and make regular installment payments and you'll come out 342 00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:23,080 Speaker 1: of it at the ends fine, right, And that's how 343 00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:25,880 Speaker 1: that older generation have built up quite a lot of capital, 344 00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:28,200 Speaker 1: and they've wound up in a position where they actually 345 00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:31,400 Speaker 1: have a fair chunk of you know, of wealth to 346 00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:33,840 Speaker 1: put around. Right, But is that a path you think 347 00:14:33,880 --> 00:14:35,160 Speaker 1: that is there for everybody? Now? 348 00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:38,880 Speaker 4: Still for everybody? Probably not? What about you? 349 00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:40,200 Speaker 1: I can talk about you for a second. 350 00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:41,600 Speaker 4: Well, I guess yeah, I'm a good example. 351 00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:43,440 Speaker 2: At the other end, I could have five rental properties 352 00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:45,600 Speaker 2: probably six, and service those I have zero? 353 00:14:46,280 --> 00:14:47,000 Speaker 4: Now why not? 354 00:14:47,240 --> 00:14:50,160 Speaker 2: I find it boring to be honest, Like, I'd rather 355 00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:52,800 Speaker 2: plug my money into you know shares and then just 356 00:14:52,880 --> 00:14:54,800 Speaker 2: get back to focusing on the things that I love doing. 357 00:14:55,160 --> 00:14:56,720 Speaker 4: But you know, I talk to probably people like what 358 00:14:56,760 --> 00:14:59,200 Speaker 4: are you doing? Man like leverage? Leverage, I'm like, there's 359 00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:01,640 Speaker 4: leverage is one. There are many ways to leverage things. 360 00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:06,320 Speaker 2: You can leverage skills, your time, audience, experience, like it 361 00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:09,240 Speaker 2: can go wider. So I, yeah, I probably just don't 362 00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:11,920 Speaker 2: find property that interesting for me. And what I often 363 00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:14,200 Speaker 2: do have all decisions is like walk down the path. Okay, 364 00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:16,880 Speaker 2: if I invest into this company and it goes to zero, 365 00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:17,840 Speaker 2: can I live with that? 366 00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:20,240 Speaker 4: Like yep, Okay, I can own that decision. 367 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:22,840 Speaker 2: Make it faster, carry on. Okay, if I buy a property, 368 00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:24,800 Speaker 2: what does that look like? Okay, then I'm going to 369 00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:26,920 Speaker 2: have a tenant. Well, I'll be frustrated if something does 370 00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:29,640 Speaker 2: break you so probably will because I can't fix things. 371 00:15:29,640 --> 00:15:31,960 Speaker 2: Look at these hands. So I'm not a DIY guy. 372 00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:33,320 Speaker 2: So then I'm gonna have to pay for that. That's 373 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:35,440 Speaker 2: going to decrease my returns on that. But I'm not 374 00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:38,080 Speaker 2: saying that, you know, people shouldn't be investing into property. 375 00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:40,480 Speaker 2: I just think maybe we got a little bit too 376 00:15:40,520 --> 00:15:43,960 Speaker 2: flippant with the advice that that was the way to 377 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:45,520 Speaker 2: do it, and now we've got to pay the price 378 00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:48,600 Speaker 2: for a little bit where house prices are really high 379 00:15:48,680 --> 00:15:51,840 Speaker 2: and people aren't then educated as to the other options 380 00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:52,440 Speaker 2: that they could have. 381 00:15:52,680 --> 00:15:54,560 Speaker 1: Do you, though, look at that property journey that other 382 00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:56,160 Speaker 1: people are on and get a bit of fomo or 383 00:15:56,200 --> 00:15:58,640 Speaker 1: you a no fomo guy, you've already walked down the 384 00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:00,320 Speaker 1: road and go, look I'm fine. 385 00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:02,120 Speaker 2: This or not at the moment, obviously with how flat 386 00:16:02,160 --> 00:16:03,640 Speaker 2: it is. But I mean in twenty twenty one, I 387 00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:05,520 Speaker 2: was thinking, oh, maybe I should having you build, and 388 00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:07,440 Speaker 2: you know what, yeah, so yeah, I fall into the 389 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:10,600 Speaker 2: same traps that other people do. I think what I've 390 00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:14,760 Speaker 2: seen and observed across businesses, across personal investments, as soon 391 00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:17,840 Speaker 2: as you start leveraging yourself with you're like in need 392 00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:18,920 Speaker 2: of every dollar. 393 00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:19,320 Speaker 4: Of your income. 394 00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:22,680 Speaker 2: I look at that and go ooh, you're like now 395 00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:28,080 Speaker 2: you're compromised and life gets harder because you need something 396 00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:30,640 Speaker 2: to work out. And I think we saw that with people, 397 00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:32,680 Speaker 2: you know, leveraging right up in twenty twenty one, like 398 00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:35,560 Speaker 2: we should think back and go The will was closing 399 00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:38,200 Speaker 2: down because of a pandemic, and what were we doing? 400 00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:41,120 Speaker 2: We were going to open homes like that seems pretty 401 00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:45,080 Speaker 2: bizarre looking back, right, what was it all about? And 402 00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:48,320 Speaker 2: so I think fomo was so high and now it's 403 00:16:48,400 --> 00:16:49,880 Speaker 2: kind of gone back the other way, and I think 404 00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:51,680 Speaker 2: I would like to just see it stay there for 405 00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:53,760 Speaker 2: a bit so that people aren't as pressured to sort 406 00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:56,280 Speaker 2: of get on the ladder make the decision quickly. You'll 407 00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:59,040 Speaker 2: be left behind. You're gonna miss out, and you've got 408 00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:02,720 Speaker 2: this natural wave. Okay, well maybe I'm not as successful 409 00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:04,520 Speaker 2: in society if I'm not doing it and whatnot. I 410 00:17:04,560 --> 00:17:07,600 Speaker 2: think at the moment we get a chance to redo 411 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:11,200 Speaker 2: that conversation and go Actually, that doesn't define success. That 412 00:17:11,320 --> 00:17:13,520 Speaker 2: it's very important to have somewhere to live, obviously, don't 413 00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:15,760 Speaker 2: get me wrong, But it's not. You know, it's not 414 00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:17,640 Speaker 2: the be all and end all of life. 415 00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:21,320 Speaker 1: You took before about people taking a big risk and 416 00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:25,920 Speaker 1: buying businesses. That seems like a really really high risk strategy, right, 417 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:28,800 Speaker 1: because you're not. It's a little bit like buying your 418 00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:30,359 Speaker 1: own home and living in it and hoping that it's 419 00:17:30,359 --> 00:17:32,399 Speaker 1: going to improve. But you've now put a lot of 420 00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:35,320 Speaker 1: eggs into this basket, into this particular set of circumstances, 421 00:17:35,359 --> 00:17:37,640 Speaker 1: working out it's not going to be for everyone. 422 00:17:37,359 --> 00:17:39,640 Speaker 2: Right, but you're more in control of it and that's 423 00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:41,280 Speaker 2: what I like about it. But again, that won't be 424 00:17:41,280 --> 00:17:43,480 Speaker 2: for everyone. The good thing of property that people like 425 00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:46,040 Speaker 2: is that you can kind of buy in and then go, Okay, well, 426 00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:48,280 Speaker 2: I'll sit back and log onto homes or whatever. 427 00:17:48,040 --> 00:17:48,920 Speaker 4: And see what it's worth. 428 00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:51,679 Speaker 2: Business you've got to turn the screws, you've got to 429 00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:55,240 Speaker 2: improve the asset value, and you're directly getting rewarded. 430 00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:56,440 Speaker 4: For the work that you do. 431 00:17:56,600 --> 00:18:00,640 Speaker 2: So there's a large demand for businesses to be purchased. 432 00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:02,800 Speaker 2: At the moment, big wave of that one and two 433 00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:04,880 Speaker 2: business owners is over the age of fifty. We've got 434 00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:07,960 Speaker 2: a becoming I wouldn't want to call it a crisis, 435 00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:10,040 Speaker 2: but I think we're ignoring how big of an issue 436 00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:11,159 Speaker 2: that's going to be as a country. 437 00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:12,560 Speaker 4: Do they shut down? Do they sell? 438 00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:13,040 Speaker 3: So? 439 00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:16,560 Speaker 2: Asia Pacific average is twenty eight percent of businesses over 440 00:18:16,560 --> 00:18:17,240 Speaker 2: the age of fifty. 441 00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:17,960 Speaker 4: We're one and two. 442 00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:21,880 Speaker 2: So what does an older demographic of business owners do. Well, 443 00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:24,480 Speaker 2: they're least likely to export, they're least likely to innovate, 444 00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:27,480 Speaker 2: and they're least likely to implement technology. Now, what think 445 00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:29,760 Speaker 2: three things that the politicians tell us are amazing for 446 00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:33,560 Speaker 2: a country export innovation and technology. So we lag behind 447 00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:38,720 Speaker 2: in the Asia Pacific region. In those areas, we were 448 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:41,159 Speaker 2: ranked tenth and eleventh in the survey that they do 449 00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:45,240 Speaker 2: each year. And why would they be risk one when 450 00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:46,920 Speaker 2: it's been so tough for the last five years and 451 00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:49,359 Speaker 2: they get into the end of their journey. Now, the 452 00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:51,960 Speaker 2: positive to that is it creates a massive opportunity. I 453 00:18:52,040 --> 00:18:54,479 Speaker 2: spoke to a business owner this morning. They've gotten out 454 00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:56,440 Speaker 2: of the properly jouney. They've got into the business journey. 455 00:18:56,440 --> 00:18:58,320 Speaker 2: I see, what's the database? Like, oh yeah, I've got 456 00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:01,200 Speaker 2: about three and a half thousand customers in a Excel spreadsheet. 457 00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:05,000 Speaker 2: I'm like, okay, But at least we've got the data there, 458 00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:07,760 Speaker 2: like they can ever CRM. They can use that to 459 00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:09,800 Speaker 2: run ads to those people. We can start doing some 460 00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:12,480 Speaker 2: analysis on who they are, we can start emailing them. 461 00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:16,639 Speaker 2: There is opportunity in that database. And if you are 462 00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:19,760 Speaker 2: getting tighter by the end of your business, junior, you're 463 00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:22,359 Speaker 2: probably not going to be pushing harder as somebody who's 464 00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:24,639 Speaker 2: a bit younger. So that's going to be fascinating for 465 00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:27,000 Speaker 2: us to watch play out. But there's more opportunity there 466 00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:29,040 Speaker 2: then people probably realize but you've got to be the 467 00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:29,760 Speaker 2: right sort of person. 468 00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:33,919 Speaker 1: People talk about the interview enerational great wealth transfer. This 469 00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:35,399 Speaker 1: is a part of that from the sound of it. 470 00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:37,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, And are they going to pass it to their 471 00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:40,080 Speaker 2: kids or are they gonna like close that wealth down. 472 00:19:40,119 --> 00:19:41,960 Speaker 2: It's going to I think some wealth will effectively be 473 00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:44,880 Speaker 2: deleted because people just go, we're gonna we're gonna wind 474 00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:47,600 Speaker 2: this up. But maybe a few years ago that business 475 00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:50,119 Speaker 2: was worth something. And you know, even back to property 476 00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:52,800 Speaker 2: as well, you've got property in business that people have 477 00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:55,320 Speaker 2: used as their retirement plan. But now they're getting to 478 00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:57,560 Speaker 2: that time and going, okay, well our property are sorry, 479 00:19:57,600 --> 00:19:59,720 Speaker 2: our capital is now stuck. So we might see the 480 00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:01,879 Speaker 2: mvent and should have new finance products, you know, reverse 481 00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:04,480 Speaker 2: mortgages that people are more accepting of. I was reading 482 00:20:04,520 --> 00:20:06,800 Speaker 2: in France they have something called it is a voyager 483 00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:09,199 Speaker 2: or something. You buy the property from the person in 484 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:11,280 Speaker 2: the here and now, but they continue to live there, 485 00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:14,960 Speaker 2: and you negotiate the price and so you unlock some 486 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:17,520 Speaker 2: of your capital. So and then you know vendor finance 487 00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:19,479 Speaker 2: in the business space. So yes, the business owner might 488 00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:21,479 Speaker 2: stay on and have to be well paid out over 489 00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:23,440 Speaker 2: the next five years or whatever the dealer is. So 490 00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:25,680 Speaker 2: it's going to be more work for the AI lawyers 491 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:28,800 Speaker 2: or the lawyers, depending if the lawyers don't get wiped 492 00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:29,520 Speaker 2: out by AI. 493 00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:31,840 Speaker 1: Change the tech a little bit. I mean, what do 494 00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:32,360 Speaker 1: you see here? 495 00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:35,960 Speaker 2: I see billions of dollars of yellow paper, and they 496 00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:40,400 Speaker 2: hopes and dreams of people every Saturday Wednesday. And one 497 00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:42,320 Speaker 2: of the things that I learned reading their angle report 498 00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:46,639 Speaker 2: is the higher that jackpot, the more people will go 499 00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:48,680 Speaker 2: and buy it, which sounds very simple. So for them 500 00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:51,359 Speaker 2: to do a lot of turnover, they want a number 501 00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:54,760 Speaker 2: of high jackpots in a financial year because the big 502 00:20:54,840 --> 00:20:56,720 Speaker 2: number drags everybody to play. 503 00:20:56,840 --> 00:20:59,480 Speaker 1: All right, the national disparation indexes. Some people around my 504 00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:03,040 Speaker 1: way call it anyway, this is not a winning ticket. 505 00:21:03,119 --> 00:21:06,359 Speaker 4: Sorry, you're going to get it to man, how many 506 00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:07,399 Speaker 4: were you are welcome to? 507 00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:08,520 Speaker 1: Because it's not worth a penny. 508 00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:12,480 Speaker 2: I look at lotto as actually like a voluntary redistribution 509 00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:15,760 Speaker 2: of wealth. Like people willingly go and take their money 510 00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:17,680 Speaker 2: and probably know, well, I'm not going to get this back, 511 00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:20,480 Speaker 2: but I can't remember this percentage that stays and goes 512 00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:25,720 Speaker 2: into community groups and stuff like that. But I'm surprised 513 00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:28,199 Speaker 2: because New Zealand seems a little bit anti gambling but 514 00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:29,760 Speaker 2: very accepting of lotto. 515 00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:31,560 Speaker 1: There was a story it caught my eye. I think 516 00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:33,600 Speaker 1: might have been one of the radio stations R and Z. 517 00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:36,000 Speaker 1: We're talking about how if you're spending twenty five bucks 518 00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:38,240 Speaker 1: a week, well, I guess that's two twelve dollars tickets 519 00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:41,240 Speaker 1: and you do that over forty five years something like 520 00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:45,720 Speaker 1: fifty eight grand. That's not even counting appreciation or anything 521 00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:48,000 Speaker 1: like that that you could have saved if you chuck 522 00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:51,280 Speaker 1: it in, you know, and after tax, after fee return 523 00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:53,600 Speaker 1: four and a half percent, it's compounding, it's going to 524 00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:56,080 Speaker 1: be like one hundred and eighty nine thousand dollars. That 525 00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:58,520 Speaker 1: starts to sound like a really substantial amount of money, 526 00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:00,800 Speaker 1: and yet so many people would still rather just go, oh, 527 00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:03,000 Speaker 1: we have a flutter or you know, got to be 528 00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:05,879 Speaker 1: in it to win. Is that a healthy thing? Is 529 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:07,639 Speaker 1: that just human nature? Or is that something we have 530 00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:09,000 Speaker 1: to change? What's going on there? 531 00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:12,080 Speaker 2: Well, I think it just shows our delayed gratification, right 532 00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:15,760 Speaker 2: versus our instant gratification. And to risk twenty five dollars 533 00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:18,600 Speaker 2: to potentially win twenty million, it probably sounds like to 534 00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:21,240 Speaker 2: psychology epic. I've got to have a go at that 535 00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:23,280 Speaker 2: I've watched my parents do it for you know, a 536 00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:26,920 Speaker 2: lot of their life. And you know, now we've probably 537 00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:29,639 Speaker 2: got a generation of people that are like gambling in 538 00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:33,240 Speaker 2: a different format, whether it is actually like online doing something, 539 00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:35,679 Speaker 2: or like gambling with their future income. 540 00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:38,720 Speaker 4: So I E. I will use a payment. 541 00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:40,400 Speaker 2: Provider this is what we'll call it, which is effectively 542 00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:42,040 Speaker 2: a form of credit, and I'll pay it back over 543 00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:45,000 Speaker 2: the next six installments or whatnot. So I think we're 544 00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:48,720 Speaker 2: just seeing like instant gratification turn up in our lives, 545 00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:50,920 Speaker 2: like easier and easier and just about. 546 00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:52,359 Speaker 4: Everywhere we look. 547 00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:54,800 Speaker 2: But all these things that are easy in our life 548 00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:56,840 Speaker 2: normally come at a cost eventually. 549 00:22:56,480 --> 00:23:01,280 Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, fair point. Crypt I don't know what your 550 00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:04,000 Speaker 1: thoughts are on Crypto. It seems like one of those 551 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:07,119 Speaker 1: things that five minutes ago everybody said was a terrible idea, 552 00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:09,760 Speaker 1: and now suddenly everybody's woken up and gone, hang on, 553 00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:14,159 Speaker 1: this actually could be something. I mean, is that a 554 00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:17,360 Speaker 1: conversation that the people that you relate to and make 555 00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:19,760 Speaker 1: content to and talk to, is that something they're talking about. 556 00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:22,920 Speaker 1: Is it in their mindset? Or is it not something 557 00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:23,760 Speaker 1: that they're even on about. 558 00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:25,840 Speaker 2: I think it's another good example where some people are 559 00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:28,640 Speaker 2: seeing forms of crypto as gambling, and so they won't 560 00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:30,840 Speaker 2: be interested in lotto or a casino or something, but 561 00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:33,240 Speaker 2: they go, oh, I've heard about this thing, and if 562 00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:35,080 Speaker 2: we all get into it, and it could pop off 563 00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:36,679 Speaker 2: and I put my thousand dollars and it's going to 564 00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:39,879 Speaker 2: become worth six, but your thousand could be come worth 565 00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:41,760 Speaker 2: zero as well. Like how much do we really know 566 00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:44,280 Speaker 2: about it? I think there's a big difference between bitcoin 567 00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:47,480 Speaker 2: and the people who really get into that space and crypto. 568 00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:50,439 Speaker 2: I don't know a lot about crypto, but you know, 569 00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:53,800 Speaker 2: I've kind of focused my understanding on bitcoin and why 570 00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:57,399 Speaker 2: people are so interested in bitcoin over this last five years. 571 00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:01,359 Speaker 2: What I've noticed is that there's a massive increase in 572 00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:04,679 Speaker 2: understanding of how the purchasing power of our dollar is 573 00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:08,000 Speaker 2: losing its value. So we might not go on the 574 00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:12,600 Speaker 2: Reserve bank inflation calculator and run the numbers, but when 575 00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:15,000 Speaker 2: someone says, oh, butter's now cost this, we go there 576 00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:18,919 Speaker 2: is crap, how can this happen? And so people have gone, well, 577 00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:21,720 Speaker 2: what can I do? And I think those people are 578 00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:24,480 Speaker 2: seeing bitcoin as a store of wealth in a way 579 00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:28,280 Speaker 2: to kind of exit some of the impact that they're 580 00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:31,360 Speaker 2: feeling on the other side, where they're watching money get 581 00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:33,959 Speaker 2: created and then lose its value, and they go, Okay, 582 00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:36,280 Speaker 2: this looks like a life raft they might call it, 583 00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:39,919 Speaker 2: or a different form of technology and solution. I'm going 584 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:42,679 Speaker 2: to learn more about it. I'm going to back my education. 585 00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:46,120 Speaker 2: I'm going to put some money into bitcoin to protect 586 00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:51,040 Speaker 2: myself from the losing value of the New Zealand dollar 587 00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:53,640 Speaker 2: or whatever. Right, But you could also argue, but that's 588 00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:58,119 Speaker 2: why people brought property, and that's why people invest in shares, 589 00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:00,479 Speaker 2: because we're all trying to beat inflation and so that 590 00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:02,679 Speaker 2: our dollar that we do have that will work so 591 00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:06,800 Speaker 2: hard for isn't becoming worth even less. And maybe bitcoin 592 00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:09,919 Speaker 2: and crypto is just the new wave of people understanding 593 00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:14,680 Speaker 2: there and learning about that. Now, if it helps increase education, amazing. 594 00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:18,640 Speaker 2: Will people be scammed and taken advantage of and whatnot? 595 00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:19,440 Speaker 4: Yeah? 596 00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:22,280 Speaker 2: Probably because you know, humans were looking for a quick 597 00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:25,480 Speaker 2: win or whatnot. So you know, that's the dangerous side 598 00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:28,159 Speaker 2: of it that I think people need to accept the 599 00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:31,520 Speaker 2: decisions that they're making or be very educated before hitting 600 00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:33,040 Speaker 2: transfer money somewhere. 601 00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:35,679 Speaker 1: I guess that trust part is hugely important, right is 602 00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:37,639 Speaker 1: who are you dealing with and how can you trust that? 603 00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:40,959 Speaker 1: Because people will know, okay, you can buy a house, 604 00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:43,240 Speaker 1: and there are the these are the ways that it 605 00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:45,359 Speaker 1: could fall apart. These are the reports you can get. 606 00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:47,040 Speaker 1: You know, if you're dealing with a real estate agent, 607 00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:49,240 Speaker 1: they've got a history, you can check that out. There's 608 00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:51,640 Speaker 1: a trust path you can follow. For the crypto part, 609 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:54,280 Speaker 1: it seems like maybe there are fewer trust paths around, 610 00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:56,480 Speaker 1: or maybe maybe I'm just not across all of them. 611 00:25:56,800 --> 00:25:59,440 Speaker 2: Well, when I first brought crypto, it was twenty twenty, 612 00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:00,400 Speaker 2: but I'll take your back. 613 00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:01,600 Speaker 4: So it was twenty seventeen. 614 00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:04,119 Speaker 2: I was working in an accounting office and bitcoin is 615 00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:06,960 Speaker 2: bubbling again, and a client came in and said, oh, hey, 616 00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:09,320 Speaker 2: I got given a bitcoin when I was traveling in Europe. 617 00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:11,800 Speaker 2: I need to cash it in. I was like, oh, 618 00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:13,359 Speaker 2: my mates are talking about that, and said to my 619 00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:14,879 Speaker 2: boss and he's like, oh, I see if they'll buy it. 620 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:17,159 Speaker 2: And next thing they are in the car drive into 621 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:19,560 Speaker 2: the accounting practice and they've got a group of them 622 00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:21,640 Speaker 2: pulled together their cash and like it, we'll bite off 623 00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:23,480 Speaker 2: the client I'm like, what the hell just happened? 624 00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:24,359 Speaker 4: What did they just buy? 625 00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:28,159 Speaker 2: How? What is this twenty twenty? I start kind of thinking, oh, 626 00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:29,960 Speaker 2: what's happening in the world. Maybe I should be buying 627 00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:31,959 Speaker 2: some gold, and I'm self managing my KEYWI save and 628 00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:33,680 Speaker 2: I'm like, hey, I'm going to allocate some to gold, 629 00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:34,960 Speaker 2: and they're like, oh, we don't advise that. 630 00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:36,720 Speaker 4: I'm like, dah, the world's going to fall over. 631 00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:39,840 Speaker 2: I've seen this before, I need to And then I 632 00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:42,640 Speaker 2: start learning about bitcoin. I'm like, these people talking about 633 00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:44,480 Speaker 2: this again, I might buy some. So I go through 634 00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:48,120 Speaker 2: to learn the process and I think, you know, then 635 00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:50,560 Speaker 2: I and I go in my mind, I go, money 636 00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:53,199 Speaker 2: follows attention. If this gets more attention, it will probably 637 00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:55,359 Speaker 2: increase some price. I'm willing to take some risk on it. 638 00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:58,040 Speaker 2: And then I start, you know, just getting back to 639 00:26:58,080 --> 00:26:59,960 Speaker 2: my normal life. And then I see more and more 640 00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:02,720 Speaker 2: we're talking about it, but really intelligent and smart people, 641 00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:06,240 Speaker 2: and I stop and go, why is this thing attracting 642 00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:08,960 Speaker 2: so many bright minds? Like why are some of the 643 00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:13,520 Speaker 2: cleverest people in the world working on this? They either aren't, 644 00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:15,680 Speaker 2: And the whole thing's gonna pop and it's going to 645 00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:19,199 Speaker 2: be like, what were they thinking or they know something? 646 00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:22,280 Speaker 2: And I'm like, I'm not intelligent enough to figure that 647 00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:24,600 Speaker 2: argument out. But I'm going to go along for the 648 00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:28,360 Speaker 2: ride and put some money into bitcoin and understand more 649 00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:30,119 Speaker 2: about it, and if it goes to zero and the 650 00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:32,600 Speaker 2: whole thing pops, I'm going to go, Wow, Okay, maybe 651 00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:34,760 Speaker 2: there's a really good life lesson in there for me. 652 00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:38,640 Speaker 2: If not, at least I backed my own judgment. 653 00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:40,040 Speaker 1: Money makes it matter. 654 00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:42,360 Speaker 4: Eh, Maybe you. 655 00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:43,880 Speaker 1: Put a little skin in the game there and you're 656 00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:48,360 Speaker 1: actually paying a little bit more focused attention. Yes, Wow, fantastic. Look, 657 00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:50,439 Speaker 1: I feel like we've covered a huge amount of ground 658 00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:52,800 Speaker 1: and I just want to pull you for the week 659 00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:54,600 Speaker 1: you're doing and I hope you carry on trying. 660 00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:55,040 Speaker 4: To keep you change. 661 00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:58,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you, thank you, Luke Kemy's for that. Action 662 00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:01,600 Speaker 1: is the antidote to anxiety. Love that thought. We hope 663 00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:04,560 Speaker 1: you found something from that for yourselves. Perfect know who 664 00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:06,840 Speaker 1: you think we should be talking to next and about 665 00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:09,520 Speaker 1: what's to get in touch for us though. Komat