1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:01,800 Speaker 1: So there is a core for the government to take 2 00:00:01,840 --> 00:00:05,480 Speaker 1: immediate action in the gas sector supplies reaching a crisis point. 3 00:00:05,720 --> 00:00:08,959 Speaker 1: The Business New Zealand Energy Council and Optimal Energy Management 4 00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:12,480 Speaker 1: Solutions have joined forces to urge Minister Shane Jones to 5 00:00:12,600 --> 00:00:15,720 Speaker 1: save manufacturing jobs. So to talk about this, I'm joined 6 00:00:15,720 --> 00:00:18,680 Speaker 1: by Len Howis, who's the Major Gas Users Group spokesperson. 7 00:00:18,720 --> 00:00:21,439 Speaker 2: Good onding to you, Len, Yes, good morning, How are you? 8 00:00:21,720 --> 00:00:23,480 Speaker 1: I'm good. This is a problem that's been brewing up 9 00:00:23,480 --> 00:00:25,440 Speaker 1: for twenty years and we've never done anything about it. 10 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:26,520 Speaker 1: So how bad is it? 11 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:31,800 Speaker 2: I think it's getting pretty bad. You know. The propery 12 00:00:31,880 --> 00:00:33,680 Speaker 2: is in the industrial secret at the moment where a 13 00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:36,760 Speaker 2: lot of these companies are coming up for new contract 14 00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:40,800 Speaker 2: when you're suddenly finding that the expectations for pricing is 15 00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:44,080 Speaker 2: beyond their means to actually pay for it. Yeah. 16 00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:46,320 Speaker 1: And like I said, we've been saying this for twenty years. 17 00:00:46,360 --> 00:00:48,240 Speaker 1: You know, we've got to find more gas. We didn't 18 00:00:48,479 --> 00:00:52,080 Speaker 1: have enough. We stopped looking for gas. Some were saying 19 00:00:52,080 --> 00:00:55,080 Speaker 1: we should have started the decarbonization process earlier. Was that 20 00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:55,840 Speaker 1: dream thinking? 21 00:00:57,280 --> 00:01:00,880 Speaker 2: No, I think the basic problem was. I think carbonization 22 00:01:01,360 --> 00:01:04,800 Speaker 2: certainly at the root of this, and in fact, you 23 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:08,440 Speaker 2: know that's made the government policy to effectively create an 24 00:01:08,520 --> 00:01:11,360 Speaker 2: energy transition. What the government then failed to do I 25 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:16,560 Speaker 2: think did actually provide a pathway that was sustainable and 26 00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:21,000 Speaker 2: ordered to get there. So that effectively left business to 27 00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:26,760 Speaker 2: cope with rising carbon prices and putting them on a 28 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:30,280 Speaker 2: path to transition without the technology of the economics able 29 00:01:30,280 --> 00:01:32,720 Speaker 2: there to support that transition to happen. 30 00:01:33,560 --> 00:01:35,759 Speaker 1: So now this is all landed on Shane jones desk. 31 00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:37,760 Speaker 1: And you were at the meeting with Shane Jones. What 32 00:01:37,800 --> 00:01:40,559 Speaker 1: did he say and did it alleviate any concerns you had? 33 00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:44,959 Speaker 2: Well? I think Shane Jones obviously is a champion I 34 00:01:44,959 --> 00:01:48,640 Speaker 2: think for industry in New Zealand, and he's going to 35 00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:50,560 Speaker 2: try and do what he can, but he's also going 36 00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:52,600 Speaker 2: to get it past his colleagues and so forth as well. 37 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:54,440 Speaker 2: One of the ideas he had on the table I 38 00:01:54,480 --> 00:01:59,840 Speaker 2: think was two reserve gas industry rather than for electricity generation. 39 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:03,880 Speaker 2: It's an idea that's being explored at the moment by 40 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:05,520 Speaker 2: him and cabinet. I take it. 41 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:09,440 Speaker 1: And as the thought of rationing which has come out 42 00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:12,760 Speaker 1: of Shane's mouth, is that actually a good idea? Will 43 00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:16,200 Speaker 1: that only make the situation worse and be a tragedy 44 00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:17,000 Speaker 1: for our economy. 45 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:20,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, well that's the dynamic, isn't it. I mean, in 46 00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:22,799 Speaker 2: the first place, if he does nothing, your risk of 47 00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:28,800 Speaker 2: the industrialization. If you then decide instead to intervene and effectively, 48 00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:32,480 Speaker 2: well it might be seen as workably competitive markets. You 49 00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:36,480 Speaker 2: get accused of being heavy handed and stepping in on 50 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:39,640 Speaker 2: property rights and so forth, which is not going to 51 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:44,200 Speaker 2: do our international reputation that's good either. So that's that's 52 00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:45,760 Speaker 2: the dream I've got at the moment, to try and 53 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:50,919 Speaker 2: find some way to tread that thin line between doing 54 00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:54,040 Speaker 2: nothing and intervening in a way that's going to be 55 00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:55,480 Speaker 2: more destructive in the long run. 56 00:02:56,240 --> 00:02:58,240 Speaker 1: And there's no sign of any gas on the horizon. 57 00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:01,680 Speaker 1: So how many businesses are at risk of collapse due 58 00:03:01,720 --> 00:03:02,799 Speaker 1: to where we're at. 59 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:08,720 Speaker 2: It's difficult to say, you know, roughly, broughly about I 60 00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:12,280 Speaker 2: would say about five and a half thousand gas connections 61 00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:16,720 Speaker 2: that we'll be classed as large commercial or industrial. Clearly 62 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:20,600 Speaker 2: a number of them have been successful in acquiring gas 63 00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:23,000 Speaker 2: at a price that at least they can carry on with. 64 00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:30,480 Speaker 2: But just based on the number in the room on Friday, 65 00:03:31,320 --> 00:03:34,800 Speaker 2: you have to say that the reasonable percentage of firms 66 00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:38,520 Speaker 2: are going to be struggling to get past the next 67 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:39,559 Speaker 2: couple of years. 68 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:43,440 Speaker 1: All right, lenn All the best going forward. Lehnn Hower's 69 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:45,840 Speaker 1: is from the Major Gas Users Group spokesperson. 70 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:50,000 Speaker 2: For more from Earlily Edition with Ryan Bridge, listen live 71 00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:53,120 Speaker 2: to news talks. 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