1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,120 Speaker 1: New research this morning has revealed New Zealand lawyers and 2 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:08,520 Speaker 1: law students are the unhappiest professionals globally. A survey with 3 00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:11,280 Speaker 1: nearly eight hundred lawyers and law students was conducted over 4 00:00:11,360 --> 00:00:15,040 Speaker 1: three years and found compared to international lawyers and other professions, 5 00:00:15,720 --> 00:00:19,480 Speaker 1: ours had worse mental health outcomes, with higher distress and 6 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:24,079 Speaker 1: lower overall well being. Julianne Kincaid Case is the Law 7 00:00:24,079 --> 00:00:27,319 Speaker 1: Association vice president. She's with me this morning. Juliane, good morning, 8 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:30,760 Speaker 1: Good morning, why so depressed? 9 00:00:32,320 --> 00:00:36,000 Speaker 2: Its study was really very surprising to me, and it 10 00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:41,040 Speaker 2: is terrible to see it. I have had some preliminary thoughts. 11 00:00:41,080 --> 00:00:43,320 Speaker 2: Obviously we haven't had that long. Was it just yet? 12 00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:48,159 Speaker 2: I do wonder about the sample sizes. So although it's 13 00:00:48,479 --> 00:00:52,440 Speaker 2: over eight hundreds over three years, and there are over 14 00:00:52,520 --> 00:00:55,720 Speaker 2: ten thousand lawyers in New Zealands, so it is a 15 00:00:55,800 --> 00:00:59,680 Speaker 2: relatively small sample size. But clearly we all will need 16 00:00:59,680 --> 00:01:02,600 Speaker 2: to read this and think carefully about the findings. 17 00:01:02,840 --> 00:01:05,840 Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, plus, you guys have paid a lot 18 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:07,680 Speaker 1: of money, aren't you. What's their mind about? 19 00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:12,800 Speaker 2: Well, that's a controversial topic all sorts of different lawyers. 20 00:01:12,840 --> 00:01:16,320 Speaker 2: I'm a criminal lawyer and we work on legal aid rights, 21 00:01:16,480 --> 00:01:18,440 Speaker 2: and a lot of lawyers do pro bono. Look, at 22 00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:19,960 Speaker 2: the end of the day, being a lawyer is a 23 00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:22,680 Speaker 2: very high stress job. We have a lot of pressure. 24 00:01:23,080 --> 00:01:26,800 Speaker 2: We take our cases very seriously, and people are in 25 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:30,400 Speaker 2: very difficult situations. Most people don't need a lawyer if 26 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:33,919 Speaker 2: their lives are going swimmingly. You need lawyers at times 27 00:01:33,920 --> 00:01:35,800 Speaker 2: of high stress in your own life, whether that's a 28 00:01:35,880 --> 00:01:41,720 Speaker 2: family situation, child trusty issues, criminal matters, or contractual and 29 00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:45,759 Speaker 2: employment dicies. Most people need lawyers when they are in 30 00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:49,040 Speaker 2: a pickle, and so we deal with very difficult and 31 00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:51,680 Speaker 2: stressful situations. I think we also need to look at 32 00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:54,920 Speaker 2: our workplaces as well though, about the pressure that we 33 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:58,520 Speaker 2: might put on people within our workplace. Most of the 34 00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:02,880 Speaker 2: organizations in New Zealand do run support services for lawyers, 35 00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:05,600 Speaker 2: and I would like to stress that for all lawyers 36 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:10,760 Speaker 2: if they are feeling stressed and feeling things are becoming overwhelming, 37 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:13,920 Speaker 2: there are lots of different organizations in ways that we 38 00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:18,239 Speaker 2: can help them through friends programs and other support services 39 00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:19,000 Speaker 2: that are available. 40 00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:21,440 Speaker 1: I mean you do they do generally The ones I 41 00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:24,840 Speaker 1: know work very very long hours and so that you 42 00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:27,240 Speaker 1: know that can't be great for a work life balance. 43 00:02:27,560 --> 00:02:29,639 Speaker 1: But I suppose you kind of know you're getting into 44 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:32,440 Speaker 1: that too, an't you wards law, that's part of the job. 45 00:02:32,919 --> 00:02:36,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's vacational. So when I was studying, I 46 00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:40,520 Speaker 2: was always told as a vocation, it's a lifestyle rather 47 00:02:40,639 --> 00:02:43,639 Speaker 2: than you know, it's a way of life rather than 48 00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:47,000 Speaker 2: just being a job. And it's the same for most professions, 49 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:51,320 Speaker 2: and doctors are are different. We do have to make 50 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:54,600 Speaker 2: sacrifices for family. Neither of my children want to be lawyers. 51 00:02:54,680 --> 00:02:56,320 Speaker 2: They say we have to work far too hard. They 52 00:02:56,320 --> 00:02:59,919 Speaker 2: see how hard I work. But hopefully there are other 53 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:02,880 Speaker 2: people out there who can see the calling that there 54 00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:06,399 Speaker 2: is under great rewards there also can be and doing 55 00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:07,040 Speaker 2: work that we do. 56 00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:09,880 Speaker 1: Thanks so much for your time this morning, Julianne Kincaid, 57 00:03:09,919 --> 00:03:14,080 Speaker 1: the Case Law Association Vice presoning for more from news Talks, 58 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:17,320 Speaker 1: it'd be listen live on air or online and keep 59 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:20,119 Speaker 1: our shows with you wherever you go with our podcasts 60 00:03:20,160 --> 00:03:21,240 Speaker 1: on iHeartRadio.