1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,679 Speaker 1: More money for rail. This is the budget six hundred 2 00:00:02,759 --> 00:00:07,880 Speaker 1: million dollars plus for upgrades and new infrastructure. For sixty 3 00:00:07,920 --> 00:00:11,920 Speaker 1: one for freight that transports thirteen percent of our national freight, 4 00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:13,720 Speaker 1: So for sixty one out of the six hundred for 5 00:00:13,720 --> 00:00:15,600 Speaker 1: that one hundred and forty three million for the metro 6 00:00:15,680 --> 00:00:18,000 Speaker 1: networks in Wellington and Auckland's a lot of money, isn't it. 7 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:20,759 Speaker 1: Transport Minister Chris Bishop with us morning, Good morning. Six 8 00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:24,000 Speaker 1: hundred million dollars. Where on earth are you guys finding 9 00:00:24,040 --> 00:00:24,319 Speaker 1: all this? 10 00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:30,200 Speaker 2: It's from the capital allowance. It's money for overdue renewals 11 00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:33,559 Speaker 2: in Auckland and Wellington, upgrading the reliability of the metropolitan 12 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:37,120 Speaker 2: rail network very important, and also investment into rail around 13 00:00:37,159 --> 00:00:39,000 Speaker 2: the country for the freight network as well. So it's 14 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:41,639 Speaker 2: all from the capital allowance for the most part, and 15 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:44,040 Speaker 2: it's an important thing to do. 16 00:00:44,240 --> 00:00:46,600 Speaker 1: So it's money you've already got that hasn't been spent. 17 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:51,360 Speaker 2: We allocate a capital amount of money and every budget 18 00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:54,840 Speaker 2: it's called the capital allowance and we draw it down 19 00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:58,480 Speaker 2: and obviously that's capital's but lumpy, so you allocate things 20 00:00:58,480 --> 00:01:01,240 Speaker 2: in previous years and the money actually spent in future years. 21 00:01:01,320 --> 00:01:02,960 Speaker 2: But it's such you're counting. 22 00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:06,200 Speaker 1: But yes, so you've already announced this money, so you're 23 00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:07,639 Speaker 1: re announcing the same money. 24 00:01:08,319 --> 00:01:11,000 Speaker 2: No, no, no, no, no, this is new money that's 25 00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:13,000 Speaker 2: comes out of this year's capital allowance. I'm just simply 26 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:15,440 Speaker 2: making the point that sometimes things get allocated and the 27 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:17,440 Speaker 2: money get spent later on. But this is new money 28 00:01:17,440 --> 00:01:18,040 Speaker 2: in this budget. 29 00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:20,600 Speaker 1: Okay, good, So we're not borrowing. My increasing concern around 30 00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:23,800 Speaker 1: all these announcements as regards the budget as somebody's borrowing money. 31 00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:27,000 Speaker 1: Tell me you're not borrowing yet more money. 32 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:31,000 Speaker 2: Well, the government is borrowing now. 33 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:33,520 Speaker 1: I know that, but more on what we already know 34 00:01:33,560 --> 00:01:35,959 Speaker 1: about this is my concern. All of the announcements you 35 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:38,720 Speaker 1: guys have made so far equate to billions of dollars. Now, 36 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:42,800 Speaker 1: either you've found fantastic savings, brilliant, well done, congratulations, or 37 00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:43,680 Speaker 1: you're borrowing more. 38 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:49,440 Speaker 2: We are borrowing, but we are. We are delivering significant 39 00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:51,880 Speaker 2: savings in the budget that you'll see on Thursday, and 40 00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:55,400 Speaker 2: you'll see a pathway back to fiscal sustainability. But it's 41 00:01:55,440 --> 00:01:57,920 Speaker 2: not going to happen immediately, and it won't happen overnight. 42 00:01:58,280 --> 00:02:00,760 Speaker 2: The books that were left us by life, where are 43 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:03,360 Speaker 2: complete shambles and you can't do everything well at the 44 00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:06,800 Speaker 2: same time. So we are mapping out a pathway back 45 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 2: to fiscal reality. 46 00:02:08,320 --> 00:02:10,760 Speaker 1: Good. I'm glad to hear that part, and we agree 47 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:13,720 Speaker 1: with you on labor. But my concern is, given the 48 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:16,560 Speaker 1: position we have currently in debt, we can't afford to 49 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:18,799 Speaker 1: borrow more. Andy, you're telling me we're borrowing even more 50 00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:19,600 Speaker 1: than we already are. 51 00:02:20,520 --> 00:02:22,840 Speaker 2: Well, we are going to continue to borrow in the budget. 52 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:25,160 Speaker 2: You'll see the numbers and the forecast around debt to 53 00:02:25,160 --> 00:02:27,160 Speaker 2: GDP on Thursday. I'm not going to get ahead of them. 54 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:30,840 Speaker 1: Are they worse than what I would understand them to 55 00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:31,360 Speaker 1: currently be. 56 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:34,880 Speaker 2: Well, we have an issue with debt in this country 57 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:37,760 Speaker 2: in the sense that labor blew the box by one 58 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:39,400 Speaker 2: hundred and twenty billion bucks, and we've got to get 59 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:42,000 Speaker 2: the debt to GDP level under control. Yes, but we 60 00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:44,440 Speaker 2: can't do that in one budget. That's going to take time. 61 00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:47,080 Speaker 2: But you'll see the plan on Thursday to get that 62 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:47,760 Speaker 2: under control. 63 00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:49,760 Speaker 1: Yeah. I just don't want to getting worse in the meantime, 64 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:50,480 Speaker 1: is what I'm saying. 65 00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:53,080 Speaker 2: Letter do why, And that's why we've got to go 66 00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:55,840 Speaker 2: for growth. Mike and that's why. That's why all the 67 00:02:55,840 --> 00:02:57,959 Speaker 2: things that the government's doing in the budget and around 68 00:02:58,360 --> 00:03:02,079 Speaker 2: RMA and fast track and you know, building a construction 69 00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:03,960 Speaker 2: set to all of those things are really important to 70 00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:04,520 Speaker 2: go for growth. 71 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:07,000 Speaker 1: Okay, four hundred and sixty one million dollars, how much 72 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:09,800 Speaker 1: of a patch up job is that versus what if 73 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:11,079 Speaker 1: you had all the money in the world, would it 74 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:12,639 Speaker 1: be a billion dollars or are you patching the whole 75 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:13,760 Speaker 1: lot up with four sixty one? 76 00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:19,119 Speaker 2: Oh no, Look, we've got significant rail investment required, particularly 77 00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:23,320 Speaker 2: metropolitan network in the future years. So this provides two 78 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:25,919 Speaker 2: more years of funding for the Metrookland and well into 79 00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:29,240 Speaker 2: metro networks. But to be honest, we are you know, 80 00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:33,119 Speaker 2: there's a significant funding investment required in the future years 81 00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:36,800 Speaker 2: to keep the lights on on those networks because successive governments, 82 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:41,320 Speaker 2: this is unfortunate. Successive governments have neglected the basics and 83 00:03:41,360 --> 00:03:43,880 Speaker 2: the maintenance on the network and so there's an enormous 84 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:46,240 Speaker 2: amount of renewal required and we're now having to grapple 85 00:03:46,280 --> 00:03:48,360 Speaker 2: with that problem. It's like many things this government is 86 00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:51,160 Speaker 2: dealing with. We've inherited it, we don't like it, but 87 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:53,160 Speaker 2: we're just going to get on with it and deal 88 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:53,400 Speaker 2: with it. 89 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:56,360 Speaker 1: All right, appreciate it. Chris Bishop, who's the Transport minister? 90 00:03:56,640 --> 00:03:58,960 Speaker 1: Do you share my same interest? I mean it's all 91 00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:02,920 Speaker 1: going to be unveiled on throughday obviously, but are you 92 00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:06,040 Speaker 1: bothered at all by the prospect of even more money? 93 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:09,200 Speaker 1: Now it's important to differentiate and I'll come back to 94 00:04:09,240 --> 00:04:12,840 Speaker 1: his What I would argue is potential obfuscation around some 95 00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:16,320 Speaker 1: pretty simple questions around debt. There is no question this 96 00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:19,520 Speaker 1: government borrows money, and that's because we're running still a 97 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:22,440 Speaker 1: deficit each and every year. We spend more than we make. 98 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:24,279 Speaker 1: So we get that the numbers are out there, we 99 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:27,120 Speaker 1: understand the position that we're in. What I do not 100 00:04:27,279 --> 00:04:32,479 Speaker 1: want to see on Thursday is that borrowing and some 101 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:35,360 Speaker 1: and that's the critical part of this. Now I may 102 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:37,560 Speaker 1: be alone with this. Maybe we're all so far down 103 00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:40,240 Speaker 1: the sinkhole nobody cares anymore, and we can borrow till 104 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:42,480 Speaker 1: we're blue in the face. 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