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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine

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Speaker 1: from newstalk EDB.

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Speaker 2: The test match season of rugbat for season twenty twenty

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Speaker 2: four came to a conclusion this morning at the Aviva

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Speaker 2: Stadium in Dublin, fighting.

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Speaker 3: For a shot.

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Speaker 2: At a potential draw, maybe a win. That's the halfway line, Frost.

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Speaker 3: Oh, it's been lost. It's been lost, and.

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Speaker 2: With it goes the game. Australia brave to very last moment.

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Speaker 3: They go down, but they show a ton of heart.

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Speaker 2: They did show a ton of heart. In fact, I

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Speaker 2: thought they were probably buy an edge the better team

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Speaker 2: in that game this morning, twenty two nineteen. Ireland win

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Speaker 2: it though in Australia though, you have to say that

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Speaker 2: they are building. I know they lost to Scotland rather

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Speaker 2: comfortably last week, but you look at that tour and

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Speaker 2: go twelve months ago after that World Cup shocker, they

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Speaker 2: would have taken it. Someone that's very close to Australian rugby,

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Speaker 2: Christy Dorian, rugby editor for The Raw, James Burrage, BBC

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Speaker 2: rugby commentator and reporter, joining us now on news Talk ZIB. Gentlemen,

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Speaker 2: thanks so much for your time. Very good afternoon to you.

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Speaker 3: Hey, guys, yeah, good, Hey.

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Speaker 2: Let's start with the the game this morning, twenty two

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Speaker 2: to nineteen, Ireland over the Wallabes. James, I know you're

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Speaker 2: covering this one. What was your reaction to that game

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Speaker 2: at the Avivah.

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Speaker 4: I was mighty close towards the end.

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Speaker 5: I was really impressed with Australia's defense today. I felt

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Speaker 5: that that had been their achilles heel probably for much

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Speaker 5: of twenty twenty four. But whatever Schmid's been doing with them,

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Speaker 5: working on defense, it's really really working. And they just

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Speaker 5: look so free in the first half. They look so creative,

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Speaker 5: and they really What he has done to Australia in

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Speaker 5: twelve months is extraordinary and it just makes the line

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Speaker 5: own series an eight months time just it's come alive

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Speaker 5: that series now.

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Speaker 4: You know, months ago we were worried. Everyone was worried

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Speaker 4: about that series. Not anymore, Christy.

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Speaker 2: Your reaction from an Australian perspective glass half full?

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Speaker 3: Oh definitely. You think about where the Wallabies were twelve

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Speaker 3: thirteen months ago. Eddie Jones walks.

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Speaker 6: Out on austral and Rugby the Wallaby's are the absolute canvas,

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Speaker 6: rock bottom, and I completely agree. Joe Schmidt has totally

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Speaker 6: just brought back some confidence and I think actually returned

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Speaker 6: the Wallabies to their roots. The desire for the Wallabies

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Speaker 6: to run the ball is there, but I do agree

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Speaker 6: I think the defensive effort was there. This morning, Ireland

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Speaker 6: had seventy four percent of territory, fifty percent of possession

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Speaker 6: and it took him to a seventy second minute to

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Speaker 6: really flex their.

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Speaker 3: Muscle and gain an incendency in the game.

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Speaker 6: So, Joe Schmidt, whatever you can do to keep him,

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Speaker 6: Rugby Australia add an extra five hundred k to keep

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Speaker 6: him because he has absolutely changed the game in a

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Speaker 6: space of twelve months and now the Lions is going

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Speaker 6: to be the show piece of end of rugby in

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Speaker 6: twenty twenty five.

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Speaker 2: Christy, you're well connected. Is Joshmitt actually going to stay?

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Speaker 3: My thoughts are it's less likely than more.

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Speaker 6: I was told six seven weeks ago that he and

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Speaker 6: Mike Cron am more likely to finish up after the Lions.

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Speaker 6: That was a pretty good source. Look, I think it'll

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Speaker 6: be difficult for him to stay. You know, we know

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Speaker 6: about his family situation with his kid having epilepsies, so

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Speaker 6: I don't think this will come down to a Jogmit

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Speaker 6: wanting to walk out on the wall of it's really

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Speaker 6: going to be a family call.

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Speaker 3: Can he change? Can he possibly?

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Speaker 6: Can things be done to allow for a Joe Schmitt

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Speaker 6: to stay in Australia as much as possible? Possibly, But

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Speaker 6: we also know that Joe Schmitt's a guy that loves

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Speaker 6: to be integrated into the Super Rugby sides, work with

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Speaker 6: the provinces, and I don't know if you'll be able

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Speaker 6: to do everything, and that's a concern for the walliies James.

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Speaker 2: The Northern Hemisphere side is probably a mixed bag to

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Speaker 2: end the campaign. Obviously, we know the trouble that Wales

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Speaker 2: have been through England very much a disappointing beg for

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Speaker 2: Then what if you made of the Northern Hemisphere unions

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Speaker 2: in the autumn series.

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Speaker 5: It's it's been a pretty chastening time. Let's be honest.

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Speaker 5: I think if you're an England rugby fan you're pretty

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Speaker 5: despondent about life for a variety of reasons, whether it's

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Speaker 5: the coaches off the pitch, the style that England want

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Speaker 5: to try and play, the lack of identity. The defense

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Speaker 5: has really suffered. If you're Wales, I mean it's even worse.

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Speaker 5: You know, they have got so many problems. Warren Gatland

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Speaker 5: doesn't really know where he wants to stay or go,

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Speaker 5: whether that will be his choice. Nobody knows. The state

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Speaker 5: of the game in Wales is in crisis. Scotland, I

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Speaker 5: think are the other bright things.

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Speaker 4: So to France.

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Speaker 5: I think Scotland and France have certainly kicked on. I

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Speaker 5: think France have looked good in patches. They were looking

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Speaker 5: looking a little shaky. There was a bit of a

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Speaker 5: World Cup hangover during the Six Nations. I don't think

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Speaker 5: that's there anymore. And equally Scotland, I think Gregor towns

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Speaker 5: End has just he has got the nucleus of a

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Speaker 5: really good team with Scotland that their perennial problem has

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Speaker 5: been that when it comes to Six Nations they can't

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Speaker 5: back it up. So they can play one or two

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Speaker 5: good games, but they can't last a series. But that

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Speaker 5: team has now got a really strong twenty five unit

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Speaker 5: squad and their biggest challenge in twenty twenty five is

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Speaker 5: to be consistent over a period of five matches, because

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Speaker 5: that's something they've never been able to do. And if

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Speaker 5: they can crack that, you know the number of Scottish

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Speaker 5: players in that Lion squad would be fascinating.

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Speaker 2: James, what's your scene to Is Warren Geitland going to

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Speaker 2: remain in front of the Welsh team for too much longer?

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Speaker 4: Who knows? Who knows?

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Speaker 5: It's so, you know, one press conference you think he's going.

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Speaker 5: The next press conference he looks like he wants to stay.

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Speaker 5: But I think it's you know, I mean, Warren Gatland

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Speaker 5: is not the only problem in Welsh rugby right now.

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Speaker 5: You know, they've had a horrendous financial crisis in terms

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Speaker 5: of you know, the financial cuts they've had to implement

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Speaker 5: on the squads. There's arguably too many sides now, even

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Speaker 5: the likes of Sam Warburton saying it's got to go

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Speaker 5: from four four teams down to three. The Welsh team itself,

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Speaker 5: the national side is very callow and Gatland, you know,

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Speaker 5: there are sometimes you watch him in the press conferences

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Speaker 5: he looks like the weight of the world is on

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Speaker 5: his shoulders and he's run out of ideas. And I

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Speaker 5: suppose the big question is when if you're going to

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Speaker 5: get rid of Warren Gatland, there's going to be a

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Speaker 5: cost to it.

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Speaker 4: You know, he was signed on big, big money.

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Speaker 5: And that's the big problem that WRU having to work out,

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Speaker 5: one of many big problems they are having to work

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Speaker 5: out if he is he the man?

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Speaker 4: Do they think he's the man?

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Speaker 5: But equally what crisis do they have to solve first?

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Speaker 5: I mean it's almost where do you start, because it's

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Speaker 5: this horrendous vicious circle in Welsh rugby because if they

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Speaker 5: don't sell out the card, if they don't set out

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Speaker 5: the principality, then they don't get the money. But equally,

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Speaker 5: no one's going to go and watch it if they're

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Speaker 5: going to get jobbed by fifty points every time.

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Speaker 6: Elliet, If I can just jump in here, I think

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Speaker 6: it's really interesting what James is talking about. And there's

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Speaker 6: so many similarities with the Shriane rugby with Welsh rugby

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Speaker 6: of recent years around the provinces.

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Speaker 3: How many years? And what about the team? What about

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Speaker 3: the coaches?

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Speaker 6: Well, you know Australian rugbyes had three coaches in three years.

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Speaker 6: You know they've had four or four coaches in five years.

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Speaker 6: Changing the coach doesn't always necessarily change the landscape. So

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Speaker 6: it's a really fascinating dilemma that that Wales have got

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Speaker 6: themselves into at the moment, but spending money unnecessarily on

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Speaker 6: paying out coaches isn't always the best.

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Speaker 3: IDEA Christian'll stick with you.

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Speaker 2: South Africa sweep the North, the All Blacks win two

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Speaker 2: Big Tests out of three, Australias on the up. Britt

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Speaker 2: Robinson's the World Rugby Year, that wasn't a bad month

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Speaker 2: or so for the Southern Hemisphere teams?

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Speaker 3: Well is it a surprise? It's just the same old story,

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Speaker 3: isn't it.

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Speaker 6: Every year we hear the Six Nations sides arising they're

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Speaker 6: going to be a giant force, particularly come the World Cup.

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Speaker 6: So every world cut bar one in two thousand and

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Speaker 6: three suggests that the Southern Hemisphere reigns supreme. And I

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Speaker 6: think we just saw how strong the Rugby Championship is.

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Speaker 6: Unfortunately it doesn't have the history and it doesn't have

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Speaker 6: the prestige that the Six Nations carries with it, the

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Speaker 6: absolute tribalism, the amazing atmospheres.

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Speaker 3: But what it.

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Speaker 6: Does have and what it produces is damn good players

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Speaker 6: with a great belief and a desire and I know

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Speaker 6: how to win games. So yeah, I think what we're

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Speaker 6: seeing is just how good the All Blacks are, you know,

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Speaker 6: There's been a lot that's been said around South Africa's

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Speaker 6: departure from Super rugby and that has definitely.

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Speaker 3: Hurt probably the overall product, but it still is a

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Speaker 3: great force.

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Speaker 6: And the Rugby Championship is just such a strong, strong

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Speaker 6: competition and tournament and it's interesting that going forward it

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Speaker 6: looks like it's only going to be played every second year,

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Speaker 6: So I just wonder what the long term ramifications are

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Speaker 6: for watering down the Rugby Championship will.

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Speaker 2: Be James Barrage BBC rugby commentator speaking from up north

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Speaker 2: in Christy Dorian, rugby editor for The Raw, giving a

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Speaker 2: Southern Hemisphere Australian perspective with us on weekly in Sports, Gentlemen,

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Speaker 2: I want to get your perspective on a New Zealand issue.

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Speaker 2: The first year of All Blacks head coach Scott Robinson.

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Speaker 2: Fourteen games down, ten wins for defeats is outsiders. What

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Speaker 2: have you made of that first season? James, I'll start

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Speaker 2: with you.

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Speaker 4: I think he's done well. I think New Zealand I've

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Speaker 4: done well.

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Speaker 5: I think they've definitely unleashed a few more stars which

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Speaker 5: we've got to see for the first time. You're missing

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Speaker 5: your first choice ten. But even you still have the

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Speaker 5: lights of Damien McKenzie coming straight off the bench and

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Speaker 5: nailing every kick and that's like a knife through the

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Speaker 5: heart for a lot of our teams because they don't

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Speaker 5: have those big match players who can come on and kick.

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Speaker 4: And I think it's just underline.

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Speaker 5: This autumn series is underline when the games have been

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Speaker 5: so tight, cannot have a goalkicker who misses kicks. You've

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Speaker 5: got to be able to nail them under pressure when

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Speaker 5: it really matters. But in many ways, if you're a purist,

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Speaker 5: one of the most beautiful things in the world is

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Speaker 5: seeing in New Zealand back line absolutely tear it up.

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Speaker 5: You and your back your back five are just outrageous.

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Speaker 5: The skill set is just something to behold. So if

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Speaker 5: you're a purist, watching the automation series as we have done,

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Speaker 5: some of the stuff needs have shaped together has been

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Speaker 5: really impressive. Ireland were well off it in that first

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Speaker 5: Test match and I didn't see that one coming. I

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Speaker 5: thought Ireland would beat them. They were lucky. You could

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Speaker 5: say against England, what width of the post? But I

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Speaker 5: feel under Robertson that there's still more to come. I

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Speaker 5: don't get the feeling that they've even got out a

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Speaker 5: third gear under Robertson yet, and I'm fascinated to see

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Speaker 5: where he takes the team next year.

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Speaker 2: Christy, what have you made in that first campaign?

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Speaker 6: Oh that's the scary thing is that the All Blacks

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Speaker 6: were nowhere New Year as good as what that could be.

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Speaker 6: You know, they managed to for just short on so many.

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Speaker 3: Different games against the spring Box in.

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Speaker 6: The middle of the year, but that is the hardest

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Speaker 6: place in the world. To go to South Africa, to

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Speaker 6: beat them on their own soil, and to have to

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Speaker 6: front up two tests in a row. I thought it

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Speaker 6: was an outstanding effort. I was surprised that. Yes, they

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Speaker 6: were pretty patchy to begin with, but I think we've

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Speaker 6: seen as well is it's very built for these Northern

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Speaker 6: Hemisphere sides to come together for an automation series when

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Speaker 6: the Rugby Championship sides have played ten tests in a

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Speaker 6: few months. So we've got to put it in the

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Speaker 6: context around how close you are. What the All Works

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Speaker 6: have done with great I think is and you'll see

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Speaker 6: the proof and the pudding in the next couple of years.

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Speaker 6: But how Scott Robinson has managed his squad I think's

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Speaker 6: been outstanding.

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Speaker 3: He's managed to ensure.

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Speaker 6: That there's been a bit of a bridge between some

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Speaker 6: of the old guard with Sam Kaine, TJ.

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Speaker 3: Perrin, Aara really ushering through some of this new crop.

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Speaker 6: And well it's the TV obviously the Rookie of the

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Speaker 6: Year voted just over the last week, but he could

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Speaker 6: have easily been the number six of the year across

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Speaker 6: the globe. Outstanding and I think he's done a fantastic

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Speaker 6: job and trying circumstances and probably the toughest position to

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Speaker 6: be the All Blacks coach off the back of a

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Speaker 6: World Cup final. There's not many places you can go

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Speaker 6: other than down, but I think they can hold their

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Speaker 6: heads up pretty high.

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Speaker 2: The final question, Ginder been so grateful for your time

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Speaker 2: on the British and Irish Lions tour, which we touched

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Speaker 2: on at the start of Hit of twenty twenty five.

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Speaker 2: How do you think the Home Union's are placed with

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Speaker 2: that series after what we've seen this year?

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Speaker 4: James, I still think it's too early to say.

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Speaker 5: I still think you've got to watch the Six Nations

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Speaker 5: and get a really good idea. You never pick a

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Speaker 5: Lions team in November or December, so much can change

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Speaker 5: over the next three or four months, whether it's injuries,

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Speaker 5: lack of form, change of form. Sometimes players come from

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Speaker 5: absolutely nowhere proper boulters.

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Speaker 4: And I think that's the.

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Speaker 5: Beauty of the six Nations this year, is that there's

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Speaker 5: an added edge, isn't there. There's going to be a

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Speaker 5: massive byproduct of what happens.

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Speaker 4: Over the next three or four months.

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Speaker 5: The moment, you'd say a lot of those places are

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Speaker 5: probably going to be filled by Scottish and Irish players,

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Speaker 5: but who knows, things could change quite quickly.

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Speaker 2: And Christie, the Wallabies, as you touched on at the start,

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Speaker 2: on the up that British and Irish Lions series is

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Speaker 2: looking a much more enticing prospect.

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Speaker 3: Well, there's definitely a chance, aren't they.

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Speaker 6: And that's great to see from a just from a

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Speaker 6: global rugby fan perspective.

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Speaker 3: Look, Lions series typically are one by the home sides,

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Speaker 3: aren't they.

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Speaker 6: You know it was only really in twenty thirteen that

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Speaker 6: the Wallaby's got beaten to one and that was a

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Speaker 6: pretty It wasn't a well beating wallabyside either, it was

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Speaker 6: a side in transition. So I expect them to take

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Speaker 6: at least one Test and I think the biggest challenge

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Speaker 6: for Andy Farrell is going to be deciding on who

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Speaker 6: he's ten is, because who he decides on the team

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Speaker 6: probably side on the twelve, doesn't it, you know, does

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Speaker 6: he trust Finn Russell to go in with a only

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Speaker 6: two Pilatu Island have got a brand new ten themselves,

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Speaker 6: Bundiaki there at twelve combinations is the really tricky thing

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Speaker 6: from Alliance perspective. Balancing act will be fascinating, but at

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Speaker 6: least the world is now don't have fifteen unanswered questions

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Speaker 6: around how to slot into players. This will ofby is

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Speaker 6: team actually now has about ten to twelve guys where

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Speaker 6: you can safely say they'll be taking on the lines

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Speaker 6: next year. It means Joe Schmid is one of two

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Speaker 6: steps ahead of Andy Fowrell.

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Speaker 2: Gentlemen, it's been a pleasure. Thank you very much for

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Speaker 2: your time, enjoy chatting rugby with you. Enjoy the brief

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Speaker 2: off season up north and the longer one down south.

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Speaker 2: James and Christy, thanks for your time.

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Speaker 4: Cheers, cheers, guys, they're worries.

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Speaker 2: That is James Barrage from the BBC and Christy Dorian

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Speaker 2: joining us from the Raw in Australia. Summing up the

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Speaker 2: test match calendar that has been in season twenty twenty

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Speaker 2: four International Rugby.

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Speaker 1: For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Faine, listen live

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Speaker 1: to News Talk zed B weekends from midday, or follow

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Speaker 1: the podcast on iHeartRadio