1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,080 Speaker 1: Can you report this morning that suggests we need noblehaul 2 00:00:02,080 --> 00:00:04,560 Speaker 1: of the apprenticeship system. Nearly twice as many school leaders 3 00:00:04,559 --> 00:00:06,920 Speaker 1: fall into unemployment compete to those in the workplace learning. 4 00:00:06,920 --> 00:00:08,799 Speaker 1: I mean, how on earth did this happen? New Zealand 5 00:00:08,800 --> 00:00:11,760 Speaker 1: Initiative Education Research fellow Michael Johnston's Well, it's Michael, very 6 00:00:11,800 --> 00:00:12,480 Speaker 1: good morning to you. 7 00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:14,239 Speaker 2: Good morning Mike. 8 00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:17,200 Speaker 1: So eleven percent sixteen to nineteen year olds not in 9 00:00:17,239 --> 00:00:20,440 Speaker 1: training or anything, six percent go to work based training. 10 00:00:20,480 --> 00:00:22,800 Speaker 1: How does that work? Why do we allow that to happen? 11 00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:25,760 Speaker 2: Well, it's not so much. What we allow to happen 12 00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:28,720 Speaker 2: is what we incentivize and what we put in front 13 00:00:28,760 --> 00:00:33,440 Speaker 2: of young people. The fact is that university education has 14 00:00:33,560 --> 00:00:38,000 Speaker 2: much higher status in New Zealand than apprenticeship training. That 15 00:00:38,080 --> 00:00:41,400 Speaker 2: can trusts really strongly with countries like Germany, which has 16 00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:45,479 Speaker 2: half of its young people leaving school going straight into apprenticeships. 17 00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:49,559 Speaker 2: We need to do much more at various levels of 18 00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:53,400 Speaker 2: the system to bring together apprenticeship training into a coherent 19 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:57,200 Speaker 2: system so that young people are aware of its existence 20 00:00:57,800 --> 00:01:01,280 Speaker 2: and also see it as a a high status option. 21 00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:03,360 Speaker 1: See when I was at school, and it's a long 22 00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:05,560 Speaker 1: time ago, the Dunce class, or what we called the 23 00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:07,560 Speaker 1: Dunce class. They were the kids who were identified as 24 00:01:07,720 --> 00:01:10,280 Speaker 1: they weren't going to university. They traped off to the 25 00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:12,880 Speaker 1: local factory to look at factory work. Is that the 26 00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:14,399 Speaker 1: sort of thing we need to go back to. In 27 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:16,800 Speaker 1: other words, give them options and open doors for them 28 00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:17,839 Speaker 1: to see what's out there. 29 00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:22,600 Speaker 2: Well well, seeing apprenticeship training as a being for the 30 00:01:22,680 --> 00:01:25,560 Speaker 2: kids who don't cope for the academic part. As part 31 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:29,800 Speaker 2: of the problem. We need to rearrange the system so 32 00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:36,559 Speaker 2: that young people, regardless of their background and propensities, look 33 00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:40,440 Speaker 2: at apprenticeship training as a viable option. It shouldn't just 34 00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:42,959 Speaker 2: be for the kids who are judged not to be 35 00:01:43,040 --> 00:01:45,720 Speaker 2: good at a kind of normal schoolwork. 36 00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:47,720 Speaker 1: And so how does that work. Does the school need 37 00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:50,240 Speaker 1: to change the rattitude or does education need to change 38 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:52,760 Speaker 1: their ratitude, or does industry need to get into schools 39 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:55,160 Speaker 1: and go here's what engineering is, and here are all 40 00:01:55,160 --> 00:01:56,360 Speaker 1: the availabilities to you. 41 00:01:57,400 --> 00:02:00,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, kind of all of the above. So you know, 42 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:04,040 Speaker 2: one thing that we can do is bring together existing 43 00:02:05,680 --> 00:02:09,560 Speaker 2: schemes for secondary school into a coherent system. And I'm 44 00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:14,120 Speaker 2: talking about the provisions under Youth Guarantee So there's great 45 00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:17,840 Speaker 2: stuff there, like trade academies that allows young people to 46 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:21,359 Speaker 2: have a dual enrollment at school and at a tertiary institution, 47 00:02:21,919 --> 00:02:28,000 Speaker 2: the gateway funding and the vocational pathways that give kind 48 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:34,359 Speaker 2: of assessment options for pathways into apprenticeships. So that's kind 49 00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:36,799 Speaker 2: of school level stuff. And then we have to look 50 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:41,400 Speaker 2: at the way apprentices are paid to incentivize businesses to 51 00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:44,040 Speaker 2: take more of them on. So I'm talking about a 52 00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:49,560 Speaker 2: graduated apprenticeship wage so that they get less at first 53 00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:55,080 Speaker 2: and more later. Maybe a bonding system to encourage employers 54 00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:55,600 Speaker 2: to take more. 55 00:02:55,919 --> 00:02:57,680 Speaker 1: See what you're telling me, Michaels. I mean, with all 56 00:02:57,760 --> 00:02:59,960 Speaker 1: due respect to you, it is fairly obvious. Do we 57 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:02,480 Speaker 1: want to do this? Is that part of the problem 58 00:03:02,560 --> 00:03:04,399 Speaker 1: we haven't thought about it, or we have thought about 59 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:06,040 Speaker 1: it but can't be bothered, or I mean, none of 60 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:07,200 Speaker 1: this seems hard. 61 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:14,600 Speaker 2: Well, it requires joined up thinking from secondary to tertiary 62 00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:19,000 Speaker 2: and for the training institutions to the businesses to the schools. 63 00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:22,160 Speaker 2: So it's a matter of coordinating bringing the pieces together, 64 00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:27,880 Speaker 2: and I guess that is politically difficult. It requires moving 65 00:03:27,919 --> 00:03:32,800 Speaker 2: some funding around probably and in times as we have 66 00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:35,240 Speaker 2: at the moment where the government has no spare money. 67 00:03:35,520 --> 00:03:37,600 Speaker 2: They have to do it in a budget neutral way. 68 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:40,720 Speaker 1: Yeah. Interesting, all right, Michael, appreciate your time. Michael Johnson. 69 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:43,120 Speaker 1: The report by the New Zealand Initiative. He's an Education 70 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:46,960 Speaker 1: Research Fellow. For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen 71 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:49,960 Speaker 1: live to news talks. It'd be from six am weekdays, 72 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:52,240 Speaker 1: or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.