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Speaker 2: Take another's it is out. The test is over. Goodness, smoke, beauty,
Speaker 2: it is out.
Speaker 3: Here, you gos. This delivery has in the music to Goold.
Speaker 1: On the Front Foot with Brian Waddell and Jeremy Coney,
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Speaker 2: Hello, welcome to On the Front Foot host Lord's Test.
Speaker 2: What's a sad result from New Zealand's point of view,
Speaker 2: A comprehensive loss in the test that lasted less than
Speaker 2: two full days. It should lords be exempt from criticism.
Speaker 2: Just excuses for the poor pitch. The black Cats catch
Speaker 2: needs work. Oh don't tell me. Another nightclub has jumped
Speaker 2: out and collided with the Indian cricket team. Hope it's
Speaker 2: only a small one and can be easily swept under
Speaker 2: the carpet. There's plenty more to follow on that one,
Speaker 2: Jeremy Coney, live from London. You would at the nightclub
Speaker 2: by any chance were in.
Speaker 3: I was well wrapped up well before that was so.
Speaker 3: That was about three o'clock in the morning. Yes it is.
Speaker 3: It's the latest of course, that's just come out over
Speaker 3: here that Ben Stokes and Atkinson were at this nightclub
Speaker 3: pretty late. It's not the fact that that is the issue.
Speaker 3: I think there's probably been some fighting, I say, and
Speaker 3: we don't know who the details of it yet. There
Speaker 3: has been a sort of a declaration that they will
Speaker 3: wait until they have found out exactly what happened before
Speaker 3: they named their second Test squad. It's not a good look,
Speaker 3: is it.
Speaker 4: I know.
Speaker 3: It's the only thing is that it's after the Test match.
Speaker 3: It's not during, it's not before. I suppose you could
Speaker 3: say it's before the second Test, but that's about nine
Speaker 3: days away, so it is slightly different than perhaps the
Speaker 3: Nuser thing. But nevertheless, they are watching them obviously very closely.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they have a curfew in place too, which
Speaker 2: is probably sort of a lack of judgment so to speak.
Speaker 2: I mean, players should be able to go and socialize
Speaker 2: after a game, and generally they do. It's just something
Speaker 2: that they don't need right in the middle of the
Speaker 2: Test match, bearing in minds what's happened over the last
Speaker 2: six months, and it just adds another I don't know,
Speaker 2: step of controversy following what is a controversial pitch to
Speaker 2: my mind. I mean, I just find that kind of
Speaker 2: pitch and it iss and we know there will be
Speaker 2: excuses made for Lords find it a substandard pitch in
Speaker 2: as much as it does nothing for the cricket fan
Speaker 2: who go there and they pay big bucks. I understand
Speaker 2: it's about one hundred and twenty five pounds to get
Speaker 2: in to Lords for a game and all I get
Speaker 2: is one hundred and sixty six overs.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, money lost. Poor pitch, really poor pitch, and
Speaker 3: obviously not for the bowlers. We always talk about, you know,
Speaker 3: let's please, let's keep Test cricket going if we can.
Speaker 3: You and I are too believers that it's probably the
Speaker 3: most important format. There'll be many others who agree with us.
Speaker 3: Summers don't. That's fine, but and Stokes is one of
Speaker 3: those who actually does believe in the future of Test
Speaker 3: cricket quite firmly and fervently, and he said basically at
Speaker 3: the end of the Test match, this, this does nothing
Speaker 3: for the you know, the extreme conditions. It's a very
Speaker 3: unhelpful Test pitch to try and save a game that's
Speaker 3: very gently, very gently dying with let with all of
Speaker 3: us trying to hang on to it as long as
Speaker 3: we can, but strong variable bounce going down down right
Speaker 3: from the first ball, wasn't it low? Day four? Of
Speaker 3: course the covers were on it and day three, and
Speaker 3: then it went up up the last day, so then
Speaker 3: you get Bethel's grubber coming in along. It virtually unplayable. Really,
Speaker 3: you're getting a wicket every just every four overs, six balls.
Speaker 3: So you know, no groundsman, no groundsman makes a pitch
Speaker 3: and prepares a pitch where it's going to be a shocker.
Speaker 3: I mean, that's a that's a fact. I went out
Speaker 3: and had to look at it on the last day,
Speaker 3: on the fourth day. Actually, they've used this steaming method
Speaker 3: that he used at Wimbledon mimbleedon to kill all the
Speaker 3: stuff in the weeds and the or anything that attacks
Speaker 3: the grass and so on in between. And it looked
Speaker 3: like that. It was kind of like Jeffrey Boycott's when
Speaker 3: he had his hair done and he had those all
Speaker 3: those little that come up from the back and you
Speaker 3: got this kind of line of little tufts, but around
Speaker 3: it was surrounded, you know, the nice shiny baldness, and
Speaker 3: that's kind of how it looked with the grass too,
Speaker 3: tufts of grass one little tuft of grass here, and
Speaker 3: then a whole lot of organic matter which is just
Speaker 3: the earth, and then another one, and then a more earth,
Speaker 3: and so it looked a rather bear and very carefully
Speaker 3: kind of manicured pitch where the tufts of grass were
Speaker 3: really quite weird. And I don't understand why in cricket
Speaker 3: we don't try these things out in other places. First,
Speaker 3: for example, why not why not a championship game between
Speaker 3: you know, in a Division two match or a Division
Speaker 3: one match, to see what what if there's a if
Speaker 3: there's a problem or a difficulty. I don't think you
Speaker 3: do it in the test match once. So yeah, we
Speaker 3: learned very quickly Lbw's eleven bowld twelve twenty three more
Speaker 3: than any I think leg buyers quite a few leg byers,
Speaker 3: so you had to I think his bowlers learn very
Speaker 3: quickly and adapt. Now we had Williamson who was regarded
Speaker 3: not as a horse whisperer but a pitch whisperer, and
Speaker 3: he he kind of must have been passing things on
Speaker 3: about his what he was seeing. But we didn't quite
Speaker 3: bowl straight enough often enough, and I think the English
Speaker 3: did a bit more. They were lucky, of course they
Speaker 3: had their long fingered seamer who was ready to go
Speaker 3: and didn't get injured the way al one. Did you
Speaker 3: know Henry only four overs in that first day's play
Speaker 3: that he could bowl, and then when he came back
Speaker 3: from day two, when the sun came out for the
Speaker 3: only time in the match, he was just a little
Speaker 3: bit floating and he got a bit full and got
Speaker 3: driven a bit. So we then had to there was
Speaker 3: a lot on Smith. Actually, if you looked at our bowlers,
Speaker 3: we didn't do too badly for two guys who coming
Speaker 3: back from stress fractures. Jamison got through with a fire
Speaker 3: in the first got a bit of swing both ways,
Speaker 3: a little bit of control, but then not quite enough,
Speaker 3: going at four and a half almost first for his
Speaker 3: first innings. And then O'Rourke coming back are on a
Speaker 3: slow surface and I thought he bowled really well, it's
Speaker 3: not going to be hitting the stunt so much because
Speaker 3: he naturally bowls a shorter length, doesn't he And he
Speaker 3: challenges challenges batsman. He was hitting Besel on the shoulder,
Speaker 3: on the chest and I thought he bowled, you know,
Speaker 3: he looked dangerous and so and then Smith's of course
Speaker 3: only in his sixth Test match picking up his sixper
Speaker 3: as well. So and then Henry not quite able to
Speaker 3: do what we know he can, which was a shame.
Speaker 3: But I think the bowlers they didn't do badly. Was
Speaker 3: I don't know what you will have seen it. I
Speaker 3: know you pulled your bed into watch well.
Speaker 2: I mean I was impressed with him. You can you
Speaker 2: can accept that the ball is going to swing, You
Speaker 2: can accept that the ball is going to seem a bit,
Speaker 2: but it's the erratic bounce that players have troubled dealing with.
Speaker 2: You know, one hundred and forty k is not a
Speaker 2: spinner in sight, and the ball is up and down.
Speaker 2: You don't know what bounce is going to come. And
Speaker 2: as you say, Bethel got a low one, a few
Speaker 2: others got low ones as well. Something of a nice,
Speaker 2: reasonable bounce was very hard to predict. And so that's
Speaker 2: where it comes to the fore. But you know, the
Speaker 2: bowling was outstanding from museum and both sides. I suppose
Speaker 2: you could say that the Sambollers did a great job.
Speaker 2: New Zealand didn't lose the Test match necessarily because of
Speaker 2: the pitch. I think one area that might have even
Speaker 2: things up, as if they'd been able to catch a
Speaker 2: little better, Brooke wouldn't have got fifty. He was spilt twice.
Speaker 2: And in the second innings there were other chances they
Speaker 2: turned down, the opportunity of at lbw from Henry and
Speaker 2: the second innings. Some of those sorts of things added
Speaker 2: to the fact that England were able to bat together
Speaker 2: as a UNI and put on two hundred runs and
Speaker 2: two hundred boy, that was a gold mine on that ground,
Speaker 2: wasn't it.
Speaker 3: Oh, yes, it was.
Speaker 4: It was.
Speaker 3: You're right in all those things. The catching, obviously I've
Speaker 3: got underlined just to mention to you, and I'm sure
Speaker 3: everybody knows that dropped first at eight. It was Brook
Speaker 3: backward point. It went reasonably quickly, but it was very catchable.
Speaker 3: Two hands to Conway behind and he put that down.
Speaker 3: Probably an easier catch was the one that he then
Speaker 3: hit to Ravendra on the midwicket boundary and he just
Speaker 3: muffed that completely, didn't judge it and was jumping half
Speaker 3: jumping at it. He got an easier second one and
Speaker 3: the second innings from Ben Duckett at midwicket. I can't,
Speaker 3: I honestly don't know how how even a club cricket
Speaker 3: can drop that was whether it amuses me a weebit
Speaker 3: that he can concentrate so hard batting, and yet somehow
Speaker 3: I don't think he actually even got a hand to
Speaker 3: that second one off Ben Duckett. I think it just
Speaker 3: hit him on the leg and as he fell away
Speaker 3: and it wasn't traveling very far so and then we
Speaker 3: dropped gay backward point again in the second innings that
Speaker 3: was con again another reverse cup chance. And I think
Speaker 3: also in the slips, didn't he there was a bit
Speaker 3: of a bit of a mix up between first slipper
Speaker 3: is getting just a bit too fine when the keeper
Speaker 3: goes up, and if you'd gone a bit wider, then
Speaker 3: at least if it had gone fine, it would have
Speaker 3: been to his correct hand, wouldn't it. He's a right hander,
Speaker 3: is Darryl Mitchell. So I just think we're not We're
Speaker 3: not kind of on the task just a little bit
Speaker 3: there with the catching, and there's got to be a
Speaker 3: lot of work because it is costing as matches. Certainly
Speaker 3: here probably I worked out between eighty five and one
Speaker 3: hundred runs, and it's very different chasing one sixty one
Speaker 3: seventy that it is two fifteen. You go in with
Speaker 3: a much more positive view about playing things. Catching, Yeah, definite,
Speaker 3: Bowling a tick and it'll get better. We'll get better
Speaker 3: at that the batting. I felt England was able to
Speaker 3: find more runs when New Zealand bowled straight and brought
Speaker 3: the pads and the stumps into play. New Zealand weren't
Speaker 3: quite capable of doing that. They either blocked it for
Speaker 3: a defensive stroke or they missed it and were given out.
Speaker 3: A lot more of our guys were bold, weren't they.
Speaker 3: But we really must work out in those situations. If
Speaker 3: you're only lasting twenty four balls. The whole point about
Speaker 3: betting is to get a few runs, isn't it for
Speaker 3: your team and you? Therefore, in those conditions which are severe,
Speaker 3: I think you've got to be a little bit more aggressive.
Speaker 3: And aggressive doesn't mean slogging. Jamieson did in the first
Speaker 3: dig and got away with it, didn't he And he
Speaker 3: certainly confumed Robinson and he dragged it down. They went
Speaker 3: even on a pitch where he said bring the stumps
Speaker 3: into play. They went into the short, the short pitched
Speaker 3: method with guys who were all packed around the leg side,
Speaker 3: so they really upset them. And I think we could
Speaker 3: have perhaps done that not so long, but be very
Speaker 3: selective about the hitting. And we saw it with Phillips,
Speaker 3: didn't we in the second evings, and so that was
Speaker 3: probably the way to play on that surface. So that's
Speaker 3: what we got to learn from that.
Speaker 2: The ingramd bowlers are going to bring the stumps into
Speaker 2: play more often, because I still have concerns about Latham, Conway,
Speaker 2: even Ravendra on the front foot that half press. They're
Speaker 2: getting their pads very much into play and bowling around
Speaker 2: the wickets. Atkinson, Robinson, tongue. They were all attacking the
Speaker 2: off stump and were basically putting them under immense pressure
Speaker 2: early on and they didn't get established.
Speaker 3: No, that's right. There was that the over of course
Speaker 3: where he might he nearly got a hat trick, wasn't it.
Speaker 3: Really he had it, and you know it's hard when
Speaker 3: you just go in and you're trying just to play
Speaker 3: a defensive stroke to get started. Latham three and nought.
Speaker 3: That was the second dismissal that was slightly concerning out there.
Speaker 3: He was clearly wanting to be more aggressive, but he
Speaker 3: went harder and got an edge and was caught second slip.
Speaker 3: Conways stuck at it, but he looked pretty uncomfortable, as
Speaker 3: we know Devon can at times. But he hung in
Speaker 3: there and he hung in there and he got a forty,
Speaker 3: didn't he And then was caught off the back of
Speaker 3: the bat and then Williamson again very early in the
Speaker 3: first and inns. That says a lot, doesn't it. I mean,
Speaker 3: when you've got Root who's basically got I'd look at
Speaker 3: what would he have? Fourteen and a half thousand or
Speaker 3: something like that runs, and you've got and then you've
Speaker 3: got Williamson with nine and a half to twenty three
Speaker 3: and a half thousand runs between them. Neither of them
Speaker 3: really got to twenty. It wasn't an easy surface. We
Speaker 3: were one for two, two for two, three for two,
Speaker 3: four twelve. It's hard to come back from there. Lords
Speaker 3: have got a problem, haven't they.
Speaker 4: They do.
Speaker 3: They've got three Test matches there this season, one against
Speaker 3: Pakistan coming up, and then they've got a Women's Test
Speaker 3: as well, and they only have two normally, don't they,
Speaker 3: And so they've got an extra one this year between
Speaker 3: England and India. I just think I don't think they'll
Speaker 3: take a test away from them. I spoke to Rob Lynch,
Speaker 3: who's the guy in charge of the groundsman. He was
Speaker 3: very subdued. He has a long term plan. But the
Speaker 3: problem for Lords will be over the next four years.
Speaker 3: The long term plans, they're going to do what Eden
Speaker 3: Park do. They're going to have the trays outside, the
Speaker 3: portable trays, and they'll have three of them, and they'll
Speaker 3: have a crane to transport them out there. The problem
Speaker 3: with Lords, of course is the slope. Those pictures are
Speaker 3: going to have to be put in on a slope,
Speaker 3: and so whether the frame of the pitch is what
Speaker 3: higher on one side than the other to make that slope,
Speaker 3: and they'd have to know exactly where that was going
Speaker 3: in the field, or they change the base upon which
Speaker 3: it will sit. Those are the only two options. I
Speaker 3: can think that they can use those, and then once
Speaker 3: they've played championship matches on them, they might be able
Speaker 3: to use them. At Lords. The Lord's surface is done
Speaker 3: wards it's dead and they don't know what to do
Speaker 3: with it.
Speaker 2: No, and they don't want to take it off the
Speaker 2: circuit because it earns a lot of money. There's always
Speaker 2: big crowds there. It is the home well place. Yeah, ah,
Speaker 2: there's no doubt about that. I mean, it's a delightful
Speaker 2: place to go and there's a lot to experience when
Speaker 2: you get there. But you know, the MCG copped it
Speaker 2: for a two day test, Perth copped it for a
Speaker 2: two day test, and lords has to stand up and
Speaker 2: face the issue and deal with it as best they can.
Speaker 2: And you're quite right, it looks from the outside as
Speaker 2: though it needs to be relaid, certainly the center block,
Speaker 2: because there's only an area where they have test matches
Speaker 2: that's in the center of the block. The rest of
Speaker 2: the purchase, I'm not sure how they respond, but you
Speaker 2: know that slope, how many do they need? Do they need? One?
Speaker 3: Five? Five to seven? Five to seven they required because
Speaker 3: that's where the TV. That's all they can cope with.
Speaker 3: So they cost them ten million pounds to dig it
Speaker 3: up and then not use it for three years while
Speaker 3: it's so there's the issue they confront as well. But
Speaker 3: that's their long term problem, long term solution. It's the
Speaker 3: next four or five years that is the issue. So
Speaker 3: they have to do something. You cannot play on a
Speaker 3: surface like that, otherwise if that happens, you know, two
Speaker 3: more times, then it will might it could well be
Speaker 3: it's there making tests away.
Speaker 2: Well that's something that they will have to look at
Speaker 2: along with the nightclub issues. One of the manner I
Speaker 2: suppose that will be of concern to New Zealand is
Speaker 2: Matt Henry. Is he fully fit? Do they have to
Speaker 2: look to Tickner? They got away to some extent without
Speaker 2: having Henry, but without him it puts a lot of
Speaker 2: pressure on Jamison, on O'Rourke and on Smith and they'll
Speaker 2: be fit enough to do the job. But you know,
Speaker 2: when you're talking about injuries that particularly O'Rourke and Jamison had,
Speaker 2: They've got a break between the first and second Test match,
Speaker 2: but Henry is still the man around who the bowling
Speaker 2: attack survives, isn't he?
Speaker 3: Yes, And because of the nature of the service, they
Speaker 3: didn't really have long spells. You know, Jamison fourteen overs
Speaker 3: in the first in English, Rourke eleven, you know, that's
Speaker 3: all out in thirty nine that's you know, you're not
Speaker 3: go bowling a lot ah you there. And then in
Speaker 3: the second and he's a little bit more fifty six overs,
Speaker 3: so they had to bowl a bit more and Smith
Speaker 3: where had to obviously come into play Vices seventeen and
Speaker 3: hen Henry started to look a bit better. Wads I'm
Speaker 3: confident if they look after him over the days they've
Speaker 3: got before this, because it's a week over a week away,
Speaker 3: that he could be okay. This is going to be
Speaker 3: a very different game the next game. The oval is flat,
Speaker 3: there are big runs being scored there. It'll be you know,
Speaker 3: it'll be more of a test for the England bowlers too.
Speaker 3: I think they're most dangerous bowlers on a surface like that.
Speaker 3: That was perfect for Robinson, wasn't it Absolutely perfect? New ball,
Speaker 3: no long spells, long fingered bowler, up and down, nipping
Speaker 3: a out. He couldn't ask for a better return. How's
Speaker 3: his fitness? We don't know that. That's one of the
Speaker 3: big issues about him, so we don't quite know. And
Speaker 3: I'll tell you the other dangerous bowlert for me is Ton.
Speaker 3: He's a nasty you know guye of face comes in
Speaker 3: about eleven o'clock, so that's where he bowls from. It's
Speaker 3: past the perpendicular about eleven rather than the twelve, and
Speaker 3: he gets at an angle that comes in at you
Speaker 3: all the time, and he hits the pitch hard about
Speaker 3: ninety and he's also getting seam as well, so he
Speaker 3: bowls he bolts balls. It'll get you out. But he
Speaker 3: does bowl bad bulls, short ones and he goes for
Speaker 3: about four and over, so but he's he takes wickets.
Speaker 1: Brian Waddle, Jeremy Coney on the front foot.
Speaker 2: Let's have a look from the other side of the world.
Speaker 2: An English viewpoint. One hundred and sixty six overs less
Speaker 2: than two full days and the home of cricket produced
Speaker 2: what I call a rogue results England one they can
Speaker 2: celebrate Badley. The image of Test cricket for me, was tarnished.
Speaker 2: Victor Marx, an old colleague of mine in the commentary box,
Speaker 2: has been one who will celebrate and he loves to
Speaker 2: celebrate at my expense, always has done. But Victor watched
Speaker 2: that game. He's probably one of the most astute analysts
Speaker 2: going around, and he's agreed to join us on the
Speaker 2: front foot. And I guess Vick Gill enjoyed the one.
Speaker 2: But to me, it wasn't one of the more memorable
Speaker 2: tests I've seen at Lord's Well.
Speaker 5: When wickets fall quickly, I mean there is often a
Speaker 5: lot of excitement. I mean it's a bit of a
Speaker 5: nightmare for batsman. I'm not sure anyone's got past fifty
Speaker 5: seven so far. In the match, so a certain amount
Speaker 5: of excitement, but also quite a lot of disappointment really
Speaker 5: in the corridors at Lord's because this Test has not
Speaker 5: been played on a surface that is ideal for Test.
Speaker 5: It they're going to lose quite a lot of money
Speaker 5: at Lord's actually because the game has got into the
Speaker 5: fourth day, but only because it poured with rain all Saturday.
Speaker 5: And the balance has not been great because the ball
Speaker 5: has dominated too easily. I mean, often we see matches,
Speaker 5: don't we wear the batsmen have dominated too much. It
Speaker 5: gets very dull. Well, in this one, it's been a
Speaker 5: nightmare for batsman really. The ball has kept low, move
Speaker 5: sideways and no one really has been able to play
Speaker 5: you know, a lot of exciting cricket shots. It's been
Speaker 5: a match for bowlders.
Speaker 2: It's unthinkable to suggest that Lords might be taken off
Speaker 2: the Test circuit or they might be changes made. I
Speaker 2: mean that that was done to the MCG when they
Speaker 2: had a two day Test, and I was also mentioned
Speaker 2: about person in the Eshes series. Will anything happen about
Speaker 2: that at Lords? I mean it's it's the tradition of
Speaker 2: the game, isn't it.
Speaker 5: Well, I'm sure there'll be a sort of internal inquest
Speaker 5: because the Lords, as you know it, hosts two Test
Speaker 5: matches very often per season and it has that luxury
Speaker 5: to do that, and everyone wants to come and play
Speaker 5: at Lords, so there will be an internal phase of
Speaker 5: agonizing about how they get a pitch with the right balance.
Speaker 5: They've had a few problems here recently, but you know,
Speaker 5: One day finals have been a bit drod because the
Speaker 5: ball hasn't come onto the bat and have been low
Speaker 5: scoring affairs. Everyone wants to come and play at Laws,
Speaker 5: but they don't really want to come and play on
Speaker 5: a surface like that, especially unless you happen to be
Speaker 5: a fast bowler. So it's pretty serious for them and
Speaker 5: they will try and work it out, but they haven't
Speaker 5: managed to for this game because I'm sure they wanted
Speaker 5: a pitch that was likely to us for four or
Speaker 5: five days and produced quite a lot of runs, but
Speaker 5: they haven't been able to do that.
Speaker 2: In the end result is the outcome of the Test
Speaker 2: basically given England some form of confidences and answered questions
Speaker 2: and about the criticisms after the issues.
Speaker 5: Well, a win is a win, isn't it, and that
Speaker 5: will give them a bit of confidence and there's been
Speaker 5: a lot of soul searching posts the ashes which were
Speaker 5: so disappointing, so they'll take some confidence from that. I
Speaker 5: mean it's but it's been a disappointment more generally because
Speaker 5: it hasn't been the sort of Test match people want
Speaker 5: to come and watch, I don't think. But the bowlers
Speaker 5: have been on target. It's been a simple operation bowlive.
Speaker 5: But you've still got to get to board the right
Speaker 5: place and England did that well. They've thought better than
Speaker 5: New Zealand. They have put the old one down, but
Speaker 5: New Zealand had a few nightmariesh periods in the field
Speaker 5: I suppose, so that O victory is a victory and
Speaker 5: they will go on to the feeling a bit better.
Speaker 5: They've had one debiton come in Emilio Gay, who top
Speaker 5: scorer in the match, albeit with just fifty seven, so
Speaker 5: that's quite achievement for him. So he's got a nice
Speaker 5: future ahead of him just at the moment. So there's relief.
Speaker 5: I think there'll be relief from an English perspective that
Speaker 5: they've stopped the rot, stop the bleeding post ashes, which
Speaker 5: was as ever a bit of a trauma for them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's been plenty of quality in the past bowling.
Speaker 2: There's been controversy about Joffre Archer and the money he's
Speaker 2: paid and not being available for the Test match, but
Speaker 2: they don't look as though they really need them at
Speaker 2: the moment the way the England bowling takers going well.
Speaker 5: No, I mean Joffre has special talent of attle quick
Speaker 5: from anything else, but on this surface pace was not
Speaker 5: particularly required. I mean Ollie Robinson coming back into the
Speaker 5: team of coursed havoc in the first and what you
Speaker 5: needed was sustained accuracy in England in the shape of Robinson.
Speaker 5: Josh Tongue has had a very good game again and
Speaker 5: is building his reputation, and Atkinson also has felt you
Speaker 5: know able to just bang away on a length, on
Speaker 5: a length, that's all you needed to do, be disciplined.
Speaker 5: So they didn't miss Joffra in this match. I don't
Speaker 5: think you'll playing the next one because I'm not sure
Speaker 5: he'll be ready for that too. If you're used to
Speaker 5: bowling four overs per match in the IPR, it's a
Speaker 5: huge leap to suddenly go into a Test match and
Speaker 5: the next one will be on a flatter service I'm
Speaker 5: sure where you're sort of required to bowl twenty overs
Speaker 5: per day, so that you've got to get your body
Speaker 5: prepared for that. So I don't think there's in the
Speaker 5: second Test. Maybe you're playing the third Test if you know,
Speaker 5: but if the other bowlers are doing so well, you
Speaker 5: might have to wait a bit longer than that. So
Speaker 5: it's a handy position to be in a way that
Speaker 5: there's no real urgency just at the minute to get
Speaker 5: him back in the team.
Speaker 2: Yes, well, Betsman haven't had much like in the Test match.
Speaker 2: A couple of fifties have probably been almost the difference
Speaker 2: between the two sides. The fact that Harry Brooke was
Speaker 2: let off a couple of times and got to fifty.
Speaker 2: That was basically the difference in the first innings and
Speaker 2: will ultimately probably be the difference in the Test.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's right, but I mean fifty in this match
Speaker 5: is a sort of equivalent to one hundred in some
Speaker 5: other Test matches. And all the guys who have got
Speaker 5: leak back two people have got to fifty and they
Speaker 5: gave chances to get there. So there's been deflation the
Speaker 5: opposite whatever of the opposite of this in terms of
Speaker 5: the run scores, and oddly the wicket has done so
Speaker 5: much that Actually, the players who've been prepared to take
Speaker 5: a few chances have generally been the ones who have
Speaker 5: prospered a little bit. If you've played just conventionally like
Speaker 5: everyone's been craving, and just play everything on its merit,
Speaker 5: if you've let the bowlers keep bowling at you, there's
Speaker 5: always a ball there that's going to get them out.
Speaker 5: So I think people came to the conclusion this match
Speaker 5: progress actually you've got to take more risks, as the
Speaker 5: bassment to just try and upset the rhythm of the
Speaker 5: bowlers and make them bowl badly. But no one's really
Speaker 5: much to do that over a long period of time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and sadly from your position, not a spinner scene.
Speaker 5: No. I mean, so Sharon Bashir came back into the
Speaker 5: side and he hadn't bowled the ball. He's had almost
Speaker 5: the perfect game. In fact, I think I might be
Speaker 5: nominating him for matter the match.
Speaker 4: He's not made a mistake.
Speaker 5: Wickets like this, it's going to kill the ass is
Speaker 5: spin bowling. But I don't suppose they'll all be The
Speaker 5: next two will be quite the same.
Speaker 2: Can we just look at this as almost a rogue
Speaker 2: result of rogue Test match because of the pitch conditions
Speaker 2: and we will expect better in the next two tests.
Speaker 5: Oh, I think so. I think you'll find that the
Speaker 5: services will be more batsman friendly. And also it's a
Speaker 5: nasty pitch to start a series with. If you're a batsman,
Speaker 5: you know it's been very difficult just to stay in
Speaker 5: sohea do you get a bit of rhythm going after
Speaker 5: a long break? So I wouldn't draw too many conclusions
Speaker 5: from the key. We defeat here, but they're having to
Speaker 5: come from behind there and the batsmen generally, I don't
Speaker 5: look very confident, but no one looked confident on this surface.
Speaker 1: On the front foot with Waddle and Cody.
Speaker 2: Speaking of Lords, it's fitting that the ground should celebrate
Speaker 2: at status as the home of cricket, and this test
Speaker 2: the one hundred and fifty at the ground, thirty two
Speaker 2: more than the next most used ground four tests, the MCG.
Speaker 2: When it comes to statistics, there's few more passionates about
Speaker 2: the game and the facts and figures than Test Match
Speaker 2: Special Statsman Andy Saltzman, who does the job previously held
Speaker 2: by Bill Frindle. Jeremy Cooney has been working with Andy
Speaker 2: and the TMS team during the match at Lord's and
Speaker 2: as it came to its inevitable conclusion, I tracked Andy
Speaker 2: down to the Spaceship media box and Andy, nice to
Speaker 2: have you on the front foot with us. Despite the
Speaker 2: margin of defeat, New Zealand sustained. It seems from the
Speaker 2: way this has concluded in just one hundred and sixty
Speaker 2: six overs, it'll be more overused than just used.
Speaker 6: Well, yes, it's not been a good game, I think.
Speaker 6: And so just in terms of the cricket and said
Speaker 6: one and fifty tests, here the balls for wicket in
Speaker 6: this game twenty five balls, and of those previous un
Speaker 6: forty nine tests, has ever been one Lord's Test with
Speaker 6: a lower balls.
Speaker 4: For wicking That was back in eighteen eighty eight.
Speaker 6: So I don't know if it's quite the same media
Speaker 6: attention as this game has got.
Speaker 4: Well, I think, yeah, this is I'm questioningly being one.
Speaker 6: Of the worst pitches for test cricket lords and very
Speaker 6: random bouncy is it's made bat.
Speaker 4: In completely lost three.
Speaker 6: Really you can see the effect that's had on the
Speaker 6: bloes sort of footwork and the trust they have in
Speaker 6: where the bull is going to go. And so it's
Speaker 6: a been a rather unsatisfying game sort of dramatic at times,
Speaker 6: but again not really what you still want as a
Speaker 6: test book at love, I think, and a bit of
Speaker 6: a shame for this. Yeah, I guess a bit of
Speaker 6: a landmark game one hundred and match here.
Speaker 4: First I was back in eighteen eighty four, but.
Speaker 6: We've not had a better surface and a better contest,
Speaker 6: but a more even contest between batting and bowlings.
Speaker 2: I guess it's a statistician's dream as well, because already
Speaker 2: they're are three, as I think beck on this tis
Speaker 2: match who have got themselves on the honors board in
Speaker 2: both dressing rooms.
Speaker 6: Yes, and in fact, which is one of this, Kyle
Speaker 6: Jamison and the first in ins I meant that he
Speaker 6: was the three hundred.
Speaker 4: Player to get on the.
Speaker 6: Lord's Honors boards home and away in test cricket with
Speaker 6: his fiper. We've since had Olie Robinson and Nathan Smith
Speaker 6: get on as well, so something to see. Other how
Speaker 6: quite how long all the honors walls have actually physically
Speaker 6: been there, but comes a big part of the I
Speaker 6: guess the Fabrica, but not just the Lorson but cricket
Speaker 6: pavilions around the world. And yeah, so then there's a
Speaker 6: lot of great players that never made it on there,
Speaker 6: and so yeah, I imagine that both both do get
Speaker 6: on there. It's an absolute dream. But it sort of
Speaker 6: feels in this game that Harry Brooke and an Emilio game,
Speaker 6: you haven't gone on there for getting fifties. In fact,
Speaker 6: you could make it getting twenty five on the speeches.
Speaker 6: Have a little special honors board of your own.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, those honors boards, of course carry a lot
Speaker 2: of history and there's a lot of memories with it,
Speaker 2: but there are a lot of people who have performed
Speaker 2: in the past who wouldn't make the honest boards, as
Speaker 2: you mentioned in the one hundred and fifty Tish matches
Speaker 2: that have been played there.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's Sachin Tendulcan never got a center here, Brian
Speaker 6: Laura Rippey, Ponting, Shane Warnt never got a fight for here.
Speaker 6: So this's you know, some of the great names. I
Speaker 6: guess that's part of a charm of gard that an
Speaker 6: Indian Thailander came in and smashed one hundred in two
Speaker 6: thousand and two to get himself on the Honest wall.
Speaker 6: So it's one of those. Yeah, it's a weird.
Speaker 4: Aspect of cricket, but you can be amongst the greatest players.
Speaker 6: And you know they get even long and might get
Speaker 6: a maximum five tests of Lord as a visiting player.
Speaker 6: So you can see why it's it's such a great
Speaker 6: opportunity when players do come here and you can see
Speaker 6: that that sort of emotion and pride when in Jamison
Speaker 6: and Nathan Smith is a visiting players that they've got
Speaker 6: their book tickets.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I suppose they are relatively you players when
Speaker 2: you took a look at the history of Test cricket,
Speaker 2: there's a lot of New Zealand names on the honors board.
Speaker 2: And of course there's another feature as well that has
Speaker 2: been highlighted in this Test match, and that is the
Speaker 2: portrait of Martin Crow. And I've just seen a video
Speaker 2: image of it and it's a wonderful portrait of Crow.
Speaker 2: I think it really stands out.
Speaker 6: I'm not actually seen the picture, but he was actually
Speaker 6: I grew up watching.
Speaker 4: Cricket in the eighties and he was, you know, one
Speaker 4: of the players we've.
Speaker 6: Looked forward to to watching as a cricket bat.
Speaker 4: And it came over with New Zealand and.
Speaker 6: Would have been eighty three and eighty six nineteen nineteen
Speaker 6: ninety four beautiful player to watch. I was looking up
Speaker 6: to meet him a couple of times when I used
Speaker 6: to work for Cricket. One of the most extraordinary people
Speaker 6: I've never talked, so fascinating about the game. His writings
Speaker 6: about the game where I think some of the most
Speaker 6: insightful they'd better read from the next player. They were
Speaker 6: talking about that today with Big Marx and article Martin
Speaker 6: wrote in twenty fourteen about the gaps between balls that you.
Speaker 4: Can find still on crip info.
Speaker 6: It's one of the most extraordinary bits of writing about
Speaker 6: what it's like being in the middle in an international game,
Speaker 6: in a test match, the battle of the minds that
Speaker 6: you don't see as a spectator. So yeah, it's great
Speaker 6: that he's commemorated here at Lords for what he did
Speaker 6: as a player and the contributions he made to the
Speaker 6: game as a person.
Speaker 2: Everybody has special memories of Lords. How many test matches
Speaker 2: have you seen the one hundred and fifty test matches
Speaker 2: you've been doing the job for a fair at a time.
Speaker 2: Do you have a statistical record of how many you've done?
Speaker 6: I don't actually, I mean in terms of working on
Speaker 6: test matches. The first test I started working on Test
Speaker 6: matches and a Test Match special in twenty twenty and
Speaker 6: that was the COVID time of the note, so twenty
Speaker 6: twenty one would have been the first one, but it
Speaker 6: would have been in New Zealand here in twenty twenty one,
Speaker 6: or of a strange game that ended up with the
Speaker 6: Engram blopping out on the final day reading two hundred
Speaker 6: and seventy on before and over.
Speaker 4: I think they didn't go for it.
Speaker 6: And the New Zealand one the second Test at edge
Speaker 6: Press to take this the first Test I caim to
Speaker 6: watch here. The memory I think would have been a
Speaker 6: sawing came down the last day of the nineteen ninety
Speaker 6: five Tests against West Indian to Dominic port taker fourth
Speaker 6: innings seven to forty three on his debut, which was
Speaker 6: a rather dramatic day's days Test Crooket. So it's yeah,
Speaker 6: it's the great place to come and watch the watch
Speaker 6: Crookt and obviously Avyard to watch everything on television. And
Speaker 6: the first Laws Test I remember with nineteen eighty two,
Speaker 6: most in Karna Pakistan's ending are getting a double century.
Speaker 4: In Pakistan winning that game. So I actually a lot.
Speaker 6: Of the I guess iconic moments of Lords have been.
Speaker 4: You know, when there's a seen teams.
Speaker 6: Have won and particularly when they've got their their.
Speaker 4: First victory on this ground.
Speaker 6: And then New Zealand won when here was the nineteen
Speaker 6: ninety nine game. Maw All got the ninth century then
Speaker 6: only got some wickets. So yeah, that Pakistan which in
Speaker 6: the West Indies game, we just took myney in the
Speaker 6: historic Lord's Moments West Indleys in nineteen fifty at the
Speaker 6: School Park in the game they won then with Ramadin
Speaker 6: and Valentine they're two spinners and that game was over
Speaker 6: six hundred overs long in just sort of four and
Speaker 6: a big days, so they really got through the overs
Speaker 6: in those days.
Speaker 4: So yeah, there's.
Speaker 6: Any any cricket love of that, that sense of history
Speaker 6: when I view on there, and lucky enough the work
Speaker 6: here working with you on the World Cup fun in
Speaker 6: twenty nineteen, one of the most loud one of the
Speaker 6: loudest Lord's ever been the twenty twenty three Ashes tests
Speaker 6: that ended in that sort of two months. It was
Speaker 6: final day in the Johnny Bursto stamping and all the
Speaker 6: you area around ben so it's almost taking England to
Speaker 6: a brilliant victory. So yeah, so privilege obviously, so I'll
Speaker 6: be able to to.
Speaker 4: Come here and use it as an oits.
Speaker 2: Yes, I was going to say, you're sitting in the
Speaker 2: t mis box, You're probably in one of the best
Speaker 2: seats in the house, and you have a lot of
Speaker 2: people around you that are wanting your information and they
Speaker 2: want it correct. How much time do you spend making
Speaker 2: sure that the information and the stats that you've got
Speaker 2: are correct and you have them on your fingertip. I
Speaker 2: mean you must have a messive computer program.
Speaker 4: Well, it's not really my program.
Speaker 6: There's a kind of online databases as the crick Info
Speaker 6: starts through, which is publicly available.
Speaker 4: Anyone can can.
Speaker 6: Use that, and as the crickliz system which the broadcasters
Speaker 6: use that I have access to. So yeah, a lot
Speaker 6: of being able to get that information quickly of just
Speaker 6: these incredible databases and knowing how to as to use them,
Speaker 6: how to get the information that's it's relevant In terms
Speaker 6: of knowing it's true, I guess I just have to
Speaker 6: trust the people who are putting that data into those
Speaker 6: those databases, And I guess over the years and just
Speaker 6: sort of trained myself to know how to get to
Speaker 6: those those facts that you have any commentation of tromas
Speaker 6: and if I can.
Speaker 4: Find something to illustrate what they're saying.
Speaker 6: Statistically, just fine interesting works or happens within the game. Yeah,
Speaker 6: with that, without those databases, it will be pretty difficult.
Speaker 4: Bill Brindle, who did this.
Speaker 6: Test especially store of about thirty forty years. I think
Speaker 6: carrier hold some suitcase with trolley and books with him everywhere,
Speaker 6: and so it's a bit easier now.
Speaker 2: Not only is that it's such an of course you're
Speaker 2: you're a cricket lover and you will have great memories
Speaker 2: of Lord's Test metsch is it Is there any one
Speaker 2: particular memory over the time that you've been following cricket
Speaker 2: that sits with you?
Speaker 4: Oh? That's that's mentioned a few of the.
Speaker 3: Games.
Speaker 6: The one particular match in twenty twelve England played South
Speaker 6: Africa game slightly overshadowed by the you've been the Olympics
Speaker 6: in London. I think it had finished by that point.
Speaker 6: There had been the spat between Strauss and Peterson. Peterson
Speaker 6: was left out of that Test and it was a
Speaker 6: brilliant Test match and ended up in England nearly chasing
Speaker 6: down a big score in the fourpinnings. I think they
Speaker 6: got to needing about sixty in with three with its
Speaker 6: left and prior and swam going well and then Swan
Speaker 6: was run out and it was just a wonderful game
Speaker 6: with crickets and fantastic players on both sides. Stephen Finn
Speaker 6: and Ally magnificent in that game.
Speaker 4: So I just don't remember that. It was a game
Speaker 4: that doesn'tn't talked.
Speaker 6: About a lot because the series didn't get some keep
Speaker 6: it amount of profile because of the Olympics and because
Speaker 6: of England losing here. You intend to look back on
Speaker 6: it too much. But it was a sort of classic
Speaker 6: game which owed everything great about Test cricket and the
Speaker 6: way the narrative shifts and the bowls and you know
Speaker 6: those sort of infinite possibilities that you talk about with
Speaker 6: Test cricket that was sort of.
Speaker 4: Shown in that game. That's my my favorite games. I
Speaker 4: think that the the World.
Speaker 6: Cup Final, obviously the drama at the end of that
Speaker 6: that game, and the it's a curious way but it
Speaker 6: was decided on a regulation that no one had noticed
Speaker 6: until about five minutes before and came into effect, and
Speaker 6: not one can quite work out come up with this
Speaker 6: crazy idea. But I guess you know, it's supposed to
Speaker 6: be life.
Speaker 4: And that's that's brown.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I should never ask that question because that coming up,
Speaker 2: but it cuts deep into a still understand. Yeah, well
Speaker 2: it's it's nice to talk to you and the you
Speaker 2: talk with a lot of passion, and having worked with you,
Speaker 2: of course I realized that passion that well, various grounds
Speaker 2: in the United Kingdom. Of of course Lords is the one
Speaker 2: that has just been complete. Did the one hundred and
Speaker 2: fiftieth Test match there, And there'll be plenty of memories
Speaker 2: you'll take away from this Test match, I guess.
Speaker 6: Yes, Yeah, Like I say, it's not a Test that
Speaker 6: I've enjoyed as a cricket fan. There's been some some
Speaker 6: great bowling from from both sides.
Speaker 4: You know, there's some clatters of of.
Speaker 6: Wickets, but it's you know, generally in a match what
Speaker 6: I said, that's a battle between between back and ball.
Speaker 6: And but I think basically the game has sort of
Speaker 6: been assuming England when it decided by New Zealand's fielding
Speaker 6: areas as much as as much as anything, so curious,
Speaker 6: untatisfying game this one. But yeah, there's looks for lots
Speaker 6: of game sort of better memories, I guess than in
Speaker 6: this one.
Speaker 2: Yes, and I don't want the stets to drop catches
Speaker 2: or the mist chances.
Speaker 4: No.
Speaker 6: Luckily, building stats are still in their infancy. Generally they're
Speaker 6: not entirely reliable, but I think you can probably agree
Speaker 6: it was not New Zealand's finest, finest matching.
Speaker 2: Lovely to talk to Andi Zeltzman a comedian in his
Speaker 2: own right. Of course, he works on BBC programs and
Speaker 2: is a very funny man, but also a very passionate
Speaker 2: cricket tragic. So we may well catch up with him
Speaker 2: again at some time. He's always got the facts and figures,
Speaker 2: and you would know, Jerry that when you want the
Speaker 2: facts and figures and you like giving correct figures and
Speaker 2: he's going to provide them.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he follows the game intently. I have to say
Speaker 3: that the two men you spoke to Vic and then
Speaker 3: in fact none of the English was celebrating, particularly about
Speaker 3: the victory, they knew exactly what the pitch and the
Speaker 3: part that it played in that we dropped a couple
Speaker 3: of catches, really two or three key catchers, and that
Speaker 3: kind of might have been the game. And they realized
Speaker 3: very you know, very clearly that they can't be preparing
Speaker 3: surfaces like that again in such an important place. It's
Speaker 3: got such a lovely things around it, around the ground itself,
Speaker 3: but the most important part is the pitch. That's why
Speaker 3: people go there to watch the game, not go out
Speaker 3: in the Harris Garden, not go out into the museum
Speaker 3: and so on. So they were almost apologetic to me
Speaker 3: and saying, look, this is not good at all. And
Speaker 3: I'm sure you got that feeling as you were listening
Speaker 3: to them both.
Speaker 2: Well, certainly with Vic. They didn't apologize for the twenty
Speaker 2: nineteen World cut though, so.
Speaker 3: No, well they don't. But well he laughed. He laughed
Speaker 3: at the result though, didn't he and how it was decided.
Speaker 2: Yeah, most definitely.
Speaker 3: Yep, you laugh out of him. Well done.
Speaker 2: You can put your feet up for a week or
Speaker 2: so and prepare for the oval. Have you been able
Speaker 2: to catch up much with the Women's World Cup? Obviously
Speaker 2: big over there. They've had the big launch and New
Speaker 2: Zealand have had a warm up game against Bangladesh and
Speaker 2: also won against South Africa. They're slowly getting into the
Speaker 2: rum of the Women's World Cup tea twenties, aren't they.
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 3: I think I mean the way that the competition has
Speaker 3: set up. Was it looks as though England and New
Speaker 3: Zealand are in one group and West Indies and Sri
Speaker 3: Lanka and so on, and then it's the other group.
Speaker 3: Of course that looks pretty tough, doesn't it. With Australia
Speaker 3: South Africa that's going to be an interesting game and
Speaker 3: the other team India. You know, that's the hard group.
Speaker 3: I think, so New Zealand a little bit lucky to
Speaker 3: have that. Some people are saying, well, New Zealand should
Speaker 3: get through. Let's hope so and let's hope they've they've
Speaker 3: had a break yep.
Speaker 2: As world champions, they've got a chance to try and
Speaker 2: retain their title and a comprehensive win over Bangladesh in
Speaker 2: particular was a important boost for them. We'll catch up
Speaker 2: with their first game in the program next week is
Speaker 2: we will be previewing the Oval Test match. So nice
Speaker 2: to have had you, Jerry, get your books out read
Speaker 2: up on that. Well, you know the Oval anyway, you
Speaker 2: do a lot of work there for the BBC and
Speaker 2: the Surrey club, don't you.
Speaker 3: I do. I'm off to do some commentary tomorrow. Was
Speaker 3: Surrey are playing Hampshire at the moment they're not in
Speaker 3: very good condition Surrey about seventh, which is most unusual
Speaker 3: for them that low on the table. They've had a
Speaker 3: lot of drawers, so there's a bit of pressure. We
Speaker 3: had rained here again today so they've lost a bit
Speaker 3: of time in that match. But yeah, no Odal is
Speaker 3: going to be a different set of circumstances we saw
Speaker 3: at launch.
Speaker 2: Yep, most definitely. All right, we'll go and enjoy yourself
Speaker 2: and stay away from those nightclubs, eh, all right.
Speaker 3: What I'll do that, especially straight after in England. Win,
Speaker 3: I will, that's for sure. You don't want to get
Speaker 3: to do any trouble kid, alright, what cheers out.
Speaker 4: All the wonderful summer.
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