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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Saturday Morning with Jack Team podcast

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Speaker 1: from Newstalks, a'd be.

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Speaker 2: If you're just turning on the radio before ten o'clock.

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Speaker 2: Our cook Niki Wicks gave us this amazing tamarillo and

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Speaker 2: walnut merangue slice recipe. It should be up on the

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Speaker 2: news talks he'd be website about now if you want

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Speaker 2: to make that at home. It's really kind of rich

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Speaker 2: and sweet. It has that tartness of the tamarillos offset

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Speaker 2: with some sweetness as gorgeous. Anyway, so many of you

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Speaker 2: have sent through some tamorillo tips, which are very much appreciated.

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Speaker 2: For those of us who have been having a bit

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Speaker 2: of a time with tamarillos over the last couple of weeks.

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Speaker 2: It turns out one of the best ways to eat

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Speaker 2: tamarillo's raw, if you don't want to waste any of

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Speaker 2: the flesh, and given there about three thousand dollars a

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Speaker 2: kilogram at the moment, this makes a lot of sense

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Speaker 2: is to cover them in boiling water for just a

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Speaker 2: couple of minutes and then give them a shock by

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Speaker 2: putting them under cold water. You know, so you do

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Speaker 2: the old hot water cold water thing and Apparently the

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Speaker 2: skin slides off and so you get way better yield

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Speaker 2: for your tamarillos. That's Peter's top tip anyway, Peter's top

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Speaker 2: tamorillo tip, so that three times fast. Thank you very

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Speaker 2: much for that, Peter, We appreciate it. Before midday on

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Speaker 2: news Talks, he'd be We're going to listen to some

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Speaker 2: of Sabrina Carpenter's latest album. She feels like the kind

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Speaker 2: of girl after Talerswift obviously the car. I think that's

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Speaker 2: fair that the girl of pop music at the moment.

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Speaker 2: So we'll play you some of her new album as

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Speaker 2: well as that. A brand new book from Lee Child.

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Speaker 2: Can't wait for that, friend of the show. Lee Child

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Speaker 2: has a new readout, so our book review is going

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Speaker 2: to give us all the details right now. It is

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Speaker 2: nine minutes past eleven and Google Sutherland from Umbrella Well

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Speaker 2: Being is with us this morning. Calder Doogle Cura.

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Speaker 3: Jack just funny about tamarillos. My wife eats sliced tamarillos

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Speaker 3: with salt on toast with salt.

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Speaker 2: Wow, Okay, I didn't know this is an option, so

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Speaker 2: so did she have any sweetness there or whatsoever? Or

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Speaker 2: just the just bread and tam.

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Speaker 3: Where you're just toast. It's like, let's that's like to

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Speaker 3: have a little bit of sugar.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so do I.

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Speaker 3: Balance out of the tartness? Yeah? No, So it's I guess,

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Speaker 3: different strokes for different folks.

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Speaker 2: Man. That's very interesting. Okay, thank you do. Godie, I'm

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Speaker 2: I'm intrigued by that. I wonder if the saltiness and

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Speaker 2: the tartness gives you a different kind of Amarillo experience.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, I've never been brave enough to try it,

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Speaker 3: I've got to say. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Hey, So in the UK they've that they have been

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Speaker 2: talking more and more about workers getting increasing worker rights

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Speaker 2: to request four day weeks, right, yeah, and this is

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Speaker 2: one of those things that has been bubbling away for

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Speaker 2: a few years.

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Speaker 3: I know.

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Speaker 2: The perpetual trust thing in New Zealand was was you

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Speaker 2: know that we're kind of a pioneering organization when it

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Speaker 2: comes to the four day working week. But on the

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Speaker 2: face of it, is it actually any good?

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Speaker 3: Well I I saw that article, I went, oh, that

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Speaker 3: sounds like a good thing, you know, four day working weeks,

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Speaker 3: and and then I read it and I went, oh,

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Speaker 3: I don't think that is a good thing, because actually

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Speaker 3: it was the right. What they're talking about in the

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Speaker 3: UK is the right or the ability to compress a

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Speaker 3: five day working week, so forty hours into four days,

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Speaker 3: so you work four ten hour days. And I read

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Speaker 3: that and I went, oh, I don't think that's a

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Speaker 3: great idea at all. I think that's a good pathway

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Speaker 3: to burn out really, And it was one of those

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Speaker 3: I think. So. I mean, you know, if you were

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Speaker 3: if you take into account travel time and that kind

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Speaker 3: of thing, if you're working a ten hour a day,

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Speaker 3: let's say that's eight till six. I think that's ten hours.

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Speaker 3: You know, you're probably leaving home at seven and getting

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Speaker 3: home at seven, so that's there's not much room left

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Speaker 3: in a normal day, and then you're going to have

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Speaker 3: Friday to kind of recover. And it's sort of like,

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Speaker 3: what's the point.

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Speaker 2: That's very interesting? Yeah, see, I mean this is probably

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Speaker 2: going to come as a shock to you. I have

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Speaker 2: been accused of being a bit of a workaholic from

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Speaker 2: time to time. Yeah, that's just the kind of the

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Speaker 2: one of the arrows they have to be here, and yeah,

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Speaker 2: I reckon it sounds great. Interesting, Well if you said

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Speaker 2: to me, because I kind of do that anyway. But

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Speaker 2: maybe that's just me being a bit of a workerholic,

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Speaker 2: you know, like I kind of like what times I

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Speaker 2: start with Yesterday, I mean, yeah, I started works. I

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Speaker 2: probably got to work at eight yesterday and I finished

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Speaker 2: at seven forty five, so as yeah, I mean that

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Speaker 2: wasn't necessarily to day.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, I mean, yeah, that's that's yeah interesting because yeah,

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Speaker 3: for me, that will be a bit of a nightmare.

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Speaker 3: But but I think I wonder if what you know

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Speaker 3: for you, maybe I wonder if it's one thing that's

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Speaker 3: you've got a lot of passion for your work, and

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Speaker 3: that's you know that old saying if you, if you,

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Speaker 3: if you, if you find a job you love, then

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Speaker 3: you'll never work a day in the life, day in

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Speaker 3: your life kind of thing, because you're always But I mean,

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Speaker 3: I think and if we're talking at four day working weeks,

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Speaker 3: and you mentioned the Picture Guardian earlier that I think

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Speaker 3: that's a much better way. And that's the one hundred

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Speaker 3: eighty one hundred rule where you get work one hundred no,

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Speaker 3: hang on, you get one hundred percent of the salary

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Speaker 3: eighty percent of the hours, So that's thirty two hours

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Speaker 3: a week and the company expects one hundred percent productivity.

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Speaker 3: So and every time that we almost every time, like

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Speaker 3: ninety percent of the time that an organization tries it,

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Speaker 3: it seems to work on almost every metric that they

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Speaker 3: use to measure it. Yeah, and I know, I know

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Speaker 3: some people that are doing that and everything. I've got

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Speaker 3: a friend who does it, and I said, oh, how's

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Speaker 3: it going every time I see him, and he goes, ah,

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Speaker 3: that's great, he said, I get this whole extra day

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Speaker 3: off to do life admin on a Friday or whatever

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Speaker 3: day he chooses. And yeah, it's just like, oh, now

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Speaker 3: that's a great I think that's a great thing that

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Speaker 3: you get all the still get all your pay, but

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Speaker 3: you only do four days in a week, which I

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Speaker 3: think sounds much better.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that does sound good. I mean that's amazing if

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Speaker 2: you can do that. I think that one hundred percent

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Speaker 2: productivity thing is the is the vital bit, right, Like

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Speaker 2: if you're you know, there's kind of an expectation, there's

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Speaker 2: almost like a yeah, I mean the firm sort of

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Speaker 2: needs to be really you know, be really clear on that, right,

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Speaker 2: like if you are at we are expecting you to

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Speaker 2: be working.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and look, and that's part of the rationale behind

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Speaker 3: it is actually that we're not all that productive in

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Speaker 3: our days when we're at work. So if we can

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Speaker 3: increase the productivity of the time that we are at work,

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Speaker 3: the reward or the payoff for the workers is that

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Speaker 3: you get a day off and the company still gets

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Speaker 3: and almost every when you look at the research, almost

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Speaker 3: every organization that does it, their productivity often increases. And

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Speaker 3: it's just that it seems to me a sort of

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Speaker 3: the best of both worlds that the business gets what

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Speaker 3: they want and probably more of it, and people get

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Speaker 3: what they want, and it's like, wow, it was kind

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Speaker 3: of like, yeah, I'd like to do that. But you

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Speaker 3: do have to do quite a bit of background to

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Speaker 3: actually figure out what productivity is at your place, because

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Speaker 3: most of us aren't sort of in a factory producing

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Speaker 3: widgets that you can sort of easily count. So you know,

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Speaker 3: for example, for your job, I'm not sure how you

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Speaker 3: measure productivity.

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Speaker 2: No job probably would wouln't fit it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but well, you see everybody says that everybody goes,

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Speaker 3: oh no, no, I wouldn't work for us because we have

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Speaker 3: to do A B and C. And actually, I think

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Speaker 3: that's a bit of a myth. I think that that

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Speaker 3: if you sit down and nut it out, and it

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Speaker 3: might take up you know, six months to a year

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Speaker 3: to figure it out, but I think most businesses can

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Speaker 3: probably do it. It doesn't mean that everybody has to

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Speaker 3: work a four day week. Some people work a five

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Speaker 3: day week, but they you know, they have shorter days,

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Speaker 3: so shorter a fewer hours every day. So I think

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Speaker 3: it's an easy thing to do. People go on and

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Speaker 3: I wouldn't work for us. Wouldn't work for us for

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Speaker 3: the reasons. But don't get fooled by that method.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, do you know, the more I've thought about it,

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Speaker 2: just for speaking, I actually think I'm not into the

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Speaker 2: I'm not into the four times ten hours because, like

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Speaker 2: you say, it's the it's the transition time from going

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Speaker 2: into work into not being at work at home, and

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Speaker 2: but you're basically your entire days gone, and like you

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Speaker 2: get no time with family and stuff. So yeah, I

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Speaker 2: think maybe that isn't gonna work.

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Speaker 3: But you probably do it from time to time, right,

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Speaker 3: but just not all day every day. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: If yeah, doing it like one or two days, you know,

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Speaker 2: every fortnight or something, might be, it might be might

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Speaker 2: be survivable. But if you're doing it the whole time.

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Speaker 2: Then yeah, I think it would just really grueling. But

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Speaker 2: I think you're heading on a really important point. And

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Speaker 2: this is one thing that I love in organizations, and

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Speaker 2: I'm fortunate to have it in my job, and I

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Speaker 2: get it. Not everyone is lucky enough to work in

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Speaker 2: a job or an industry where this is possible. I reckon.

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Speaker 2: There is so much to be said for workplaces that

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Speaker 2: measure success by outcomes rather than inputs, and so so

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Speaker 2: rather than saying to employees, you know, you are going

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Speaker 2: to be doing these hours, and they constantly measure everything

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Speaker 2: by outputs, so like, this is what we expect to

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Speaker 2: be achieved, and if it is achieved, then you know,

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Speaker 2: and you're leaving it quarter past four or good, it

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Speaker 2: doesn't matter, and we're gonna we're gonna encourage your culture

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Speaker 2: whereby you don't feel guilty for that. No one's judging

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Speaker 2: you so long as the work is done to meet

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Speaker 2: you on that, and that's.

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Speaker 3: Great, you know, absolutely, And that sort of one hundred

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Speaker 3: eighty one hundred four day working week. That one thing

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Speaker 3: I love about that, which is connected with what you

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Speaker 3: were saying, is they basically give the solution to the

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Speaker 3: people who are doing the work and saying, hey, look,

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Speaker 3: this is what we want to achieve and let's figure

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Speaker 3: it out together. So it isn't management saying Okay, this

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Speaker 3: is what you've got to do and this is how

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Speaker 3: to do it. It says you guys, figure it out. You're

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Speaker 3: clever people, you know the job, let's figure it out together.

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Speaker 3: And almost universally it comes off that people feel better

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Speaker 3: and enjoy work and keep producing. Probably even more so,

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Speaker 3: I love the sort of democratization of it where everybody

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Speaker 3: gets to say and how it can work.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, right, So what do you reckon people and organizations

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Speaker 2: should do if they're interested in trying this?

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Speaker 3: Well, I mean, I think you do have to do

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Speaker 3: quite a bit of setting up. And we've worked with

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Speaker 3: organizations who have done it before, and often there can

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Speaker 3: be like at least a six month maybe twelve months

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Speaker 3: league in time, and I might be exaggerating that lightly,

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Speaker 3: but you do have to sit down and figure stuff out.

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Speaker 3: So you know, how do we measure productivity? How you know,

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Speaker 3: how can how would if we have to provide coverage

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Speaker 3: five days a week, how would that work? There's also

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Speaker 3: things to nut out about how do we make our

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Speaker 3: time at work? More efficient, and there's often lots of

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Speaker 3: work that goes into having efficient meetings, Like many of

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Speaker 3: us get stuck in sort of these endless meetings which

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Speaker 3: which seem to have no huge purpose, and there are

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Speaker 3: so I think the main thing is do your research,

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Speaker 3: you know, go online. There's lots of examples that you

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Speaker 3: can look at and and start having some conversations about it,

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Speaker 3: being aware that it's going to take a little bit

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Speaker 3: of time to set up.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's great advice. Thank you so much. Google. I

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Speaker 2: love how doggle gets us thinking, you know, it gets

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Speaker 2: us thinking about these sorts of things. Dogle somethland there

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Speaker 2: from Umbrell Well Being.

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Speaker 1: For more from Saturday Morning with Jack Tam Listen live

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