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Speaker 1: Well, it's been quite the week for the Prime Minister,

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Speaker 1: who started out on a trade come business trip to

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Speaker 1: Britain that involved meetings with keystaram Or, a visit to

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Speaker 1: our troops training the Ukrainians, of course, an ANZAC service

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Speaker 1: at Gallipoli, and ended with a trip to Rome and

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Speaker 1: a papal Farewell. Christopher Luxen is with us. Very good morning,

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Speaker 1: Good morning, Mike. Good to be with you. Well, normally,

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Speaker 1: of course we were going to start with the ANZAC

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Speaker 1: day first, but events overtook it all in the week.

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Speaker 1: It looked in Rome quite the scene.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it was pretty special to represent New Zealanders there

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Speaker 2: and pretty powerful guy and to see all these little

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Speaker 2: leaders show up to recognize him and appreciate him with

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Speaker 2: quite something.

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Speaker 3: Did it feel like a moment, Yeah it did. I

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Speaker 3: mean I.

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Speaker 2: Looked out over the square and New Ditery is just

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Speaker 2: sort of people just jam packed everywhere down this roads,

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Speaker 2: down the alleyways.

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Speaker 3: Really quite something.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and then applause would break out as different things

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Speaker 2: were said, and as this coffin was moved, and it

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Speaker 2: was quite moving.

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Speaker 1: If people haven't been there, and I'm assuming where you

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Speaker 1: were sitting us up towards the Vatican itself. You're on

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Speaker 1: the top, there's a slope. The whole thing's on this slope,

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Speaker 1: and you look down and you can see way back

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Speaker 1: down the streets for miles.

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Speaker 3: Exactly exactly.

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Speaker 2: I was sort of literally two rows in the second

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Speaker 2: or third row from the altar and very very close

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Speaker 2: to seeing this ceremony and obviously very close to the coffin,

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Speaker 2: and then you'd just look out to the left and

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Speaker 2: you could just see people, just streams of people, and

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Speaker 2: I think there were reports there was something like two

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Speaker 2: hundred and fifty to four hundred thousand people there.

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Speaker 1: What was security like and how was it handled?

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Speaker 2: It was a lot of security, and as you expect,

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Speaker 2: it was tricky getting cars and delegations in and out

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Speaker 2: of the cathedral, and then it was very difficult getting

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Speaker 2: back out again. Everyone was there waiting for their cars

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Speaker 2: and delegations to come out the other side. But it's

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Speaker 2: a big movement. Trying to deal with all those world

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Speaker 2: leaders that were there.

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Speaker 1: And who did you run into and who did you

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Speaker 1: talk to? And any business was done or was that

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Speaker 1: not really allowed?

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Speaker 2: No, it was really ran into probably fifteen or so

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Speaker 2: leaders and had good conversations with them. But it wasn't

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Speaker 2: a place where we did formal bilaterals or anything like that.

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Speaker 2: But you know, I had a good catch up with

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Speaker 2: the President of the European Union, Philippines president as well,

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Speaker 2: so Kiir Starmer obviously the Dutch Prime Minister.

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Speaker 3: I ran into President Biden, who was there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's just there's just a few people to

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Speaker 2: talk to and have touch base with.

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Speaker 3: And what do you make of it?

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Speaker 1: You were listening the photo of course of Trump and

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Speaker 1: Zelensky huddled together. Does that does that bring us all hope?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: I mean it's an incredibly challenging situation, as you well know,

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Speaker 2: but it was quite powerful and evocative imagery. I thought,

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Speaker 2: seeing those two together sitting on the chairs having a

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Speaker 2: conversation at the cathedral at a funeral of the guy.

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Speaker 3: That was was talking about will peace And isn't it ironic?

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Speaker 1: I suppose you go back to Anzac Day and what

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Speaker 1: we commemorated Anzac Day, and you look back at the

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Speaker 1: world and wars and at that moment and the trouble

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Speaker 1: we're all in these days. Maybe if we spent more

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Speaker 1: time thinking about Anzac Days, the world wouldn't be where

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Speaker 1: it is at the moment.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that was another highlight of the week.

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Speaker 2: Mike was doing the Dawn service, but I had exactly

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Speaker 2: the same reflection, was that, you know, one hundred and

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Speaker 2: ten years ago we were on a peninsula and the

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Speaker 2: data nails at Gallipoli with the Australians and with the Brits,

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Speaker 2: and then one hundred and ten years later, we're with

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Speaker 2: the Brits in south of England training Ukrainian soldiers fifty

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Speaker 2: four thousand of them to go back into a warfare

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Speaker 2: in a matter of days after being trained by New

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Speaker 2: Zealand troops and British troops yet again entrenches, albeit with drones,

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Speaker 2: and so it was, yeah, it was a big thought

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Speaker 2: that process. We haven't come that far, have we? In

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Speaker 2: some ways?

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Speaker 1: Actually speaking of drones. The thing that took my attention

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Speaker 1: with this trip to Britain and Starmer and your visit

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Speaker 1: to the troops who were training for the people in Ukraine,

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Speaker 1: this business and tech stuff that we do. So there's

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Speaker 1: a small company in Mount Monganui and the next thing

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Speaker 1: you know, they're doing multimillion dollar deals with the UK.

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Speaker 1: I mean, that's a story worth telling, isn't it.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely.

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Speaker 2: I mean the highlight of the UK trip for me

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Speaker 2: was that we've got all this historical stuff that ties

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Speaker 2: us to the but we're obviously a long way away

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Speaker 2: from each other. But we've actually got new things now

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Speaker 2: in the relationship that we can continue to build and

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Speaker 2: propel this relationship on. And so one is really around

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Speaker 2: defense and security. Awesome caree company SIOS that's actually did

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Speaker 2: a thirty million pound deal with the Ministry of Defense

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Speaker 2: in the UK unmanned uncrewed equipment and what we want

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Speaker 2: to do in our defense capability plan some aspects as well.

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Speaker 2: But then also the free trade agreement Mike has been fantastic.

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Speaker 2: In the last twelve months. We've had twenty one percent

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Speaker 2: growth in New Zealand exports to the UK. I did

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Speaker 2: a day with investors in tech and also with infrastructure investors,

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Speaker 2: and we've got a lot of British investors putting it

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Speaker 2: renewable energy and projects into New Zealand as well. So

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Speaker 2: it's good to have not just the historical stuff of.

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Speaker 3: A sheared outlook.

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Speaker 2: She had value, she had histories, but also now have

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Speaker 2: real drive and ambition about what we can do more

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Speaker 2: together going forward.

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Speaker 1: And if you talk to a British audience, generally they

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Speaker 1: know about sheep, they know about serving on blanc of course,

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Speaker 1: do they know about tech automatically?

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Speaker 3: That's what I spent a lot of time doing on

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Speaker 3: the Gala. Don't know.

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Speaker 2: We had two hundred and fifty people there just telling

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Speaker 2: them exactly, you know us for exactly those things and

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Speaker 2: marks and Spencer's and Wagros. But do you know that

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Speaker 2: we are top five country on renewables, We're.

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Speaker 3: The fourth biggest launcher of rockets.

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Speaker 2: We've got amazing tech companies there that are already operating

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Speaker 2: well in the UK as well, So you know that

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Speaker 2: message is getting through that we've got traditional sectors, but

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Speaker 2: we are also modern country with lots of the emerging tech.

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Speaker 3: As well, which is very interesting to them.

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Speaker 1: So back in Rome, you mentioned the president of the EU.

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Speaker 1: You know when you talk about the EU, and I

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Speaker 1: guess you're up with this. Rachel Reeves mentioned over the

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Speaker 1: weekend that Britain needs to trade more with the EU.

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Speaker 1: They need to worry more about the EU than they

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Speaker 1: do about the United States. Does that broad theory dubtail

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Speaker 1: with where we're at or not?

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Speaker 2: I think for us it's an and and and not

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Speaker 2: an or. And you know we want a positive, constructive

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Speaker 2: relationship with the Americans. We've got good connections to that administration.

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Speaker 2: Our exporters are actually still feeling very positive about the

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Speaker 2: market posts the tariffs. We're not imposing.

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Speaker 3: Retaliatory tariffs because it will just.

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Speaker 2: Hurt News Islanders and we'll continue to make the case

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Speaker 2: for New Zealand, but then it's an end. And that's

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Speaker 2: what we've been doing the last sixteen months is getting

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Speaker 2: to the UAE, getting to the GCC kicking off and

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Speaker 2: going to the UK, powering up the FTA, bringing the

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Speaker 2: euf TA into force the season earlier than when planned.

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Speaker 2: All that stuff that I've been doing, comprehensives, tragic hutch

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Speaker 2: of Vietnam, r c own Countries, Singapore, all that stuff

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Speaker 2: is really important. We've got to sell more and more

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Speaker 2: things to the world.

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Speaker 1: A couple of domestic things. China got very upset at

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Speaker 1: New Zealand MPs who visited Taiwan. Should they be and

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Speaker 1: is there a problem there?

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Speaker 3: Will not.

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Speaker 2: No, We've got a long standing commitment to our One

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Speaker 2: China policy, which we hold to. But we've had always

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Speaker 2: a long tradition of back bench MPs going off to Taiwan.

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Speaker 2: It's the legislator, not the executive that goes.

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Speaker 1: Now the family boost where what was it? Three four

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Speaker 1: or five families?

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Speaker 3: Whatever?

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Speaker 1: I mean, how did you cock that up? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: I mean there was a real challenges around there, obviously,

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Speaker 2: the assumptions and around as to what was who was

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Speaker 2: going to get what, and what was who was entitled

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Speaker 2: to what could to see Nicholas come out and said, look,

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Speaker 2: we want to make sure that you'll look at the

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Speaker 2: system and make sure it works. But we did get

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Speaker 2: you know, forty two million dollars out to fifty five

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Speaker 2: thousand people or families, which was actually really important. We

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Speaker 2: were trying to put it out as quickly as possible

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Speaker 2: rather than make an IT system that would then take

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Speaker 2: year a year and a half to do. But yes,

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Speaker 2: clearly some assumptions from my ID based off some incomplete

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Speaker 2: information led to there's some challenges there. But Nicolay wants

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Speaker 2: to make sure that we get that money out into

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Speaker 2: those families.

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Speaker 1: And does that then sit with the ID because they

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Speaker 1: didn't have the numbers, or does it sit with you

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Speaker 1: because you got very bullish on it, sprooking it and

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Speaker 1: selling it when you really didn't have the details to

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Speaker 1: do that.

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Speaker 2: Now I think we hit off the assumptions that we

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Speaker 2: had in the models that we had built and from

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Speaker 2: assumptions that we had. But clearly, you know, some of

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Speaker 2: tho assumptions are offering complete information or wrong information. But

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Speaker 2: the key thing is the intention was to get money

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Speaker 2: out the door to families that actually are dealing with

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Speaker 2: the cost of living crisis and high early child education costs,

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Speaker 2: and we want to do that.

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Speaker 3: As fast as possible.

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Speaker 2: So we did it through the rebate sort of model,

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Speaker 2: but obviously there's more that we can do there, and

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Speaker 2: Nicholas going to keep looking at it and see what

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Speaker 2: else we can do.

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Speaker 1: So the idea is the money will eventually go out

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Speaker 1: to people you intended it to go to. It'll just

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Speaker 1: be slightly different by way of mechanism.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, I mean, we want that money going to those

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Speaker 2: working families that actually have got very high childcare costs.

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Speaker 2: We want to do everything we can to support them.

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Speaker 2: The system has worked as well as it can to

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Speaker 2: get the cash out to them. Obviously some of the

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Speaker 2: assumptions were wrong as to how much people would receive

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Speaker 2: and when how they would do that, But we can

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Speaker 2: fix that up.

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Speaker 1: All right, and then acc an act and Mari procurement.

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Speaker 1: Are you up on this or no?

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Speaker 2: I sorry, I haven't been briefed a little bit on

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Speaker 2: the ACC ship and I know Scott Simpson's asked the

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Speaker 2: team to look at that again.

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Speaker 1: So on the surface, act to claiming that a SEC

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Speaker 1: is still trying to procure services based on race and

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Speaker 1: there's this cabinet piece of paper that says you can't

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Speaker 1: do that.

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Speaker 2: So I act right, Well, we've got a circular that's

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Speaker 2: about making sure services public services delivered on the basis

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Speaker 2: of need. ACC have obviously got a procurement exercise up

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Speaker 2: and running. The Minister Scott Simpson, as I understand, it

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Speaker 2: was quite comfortable in the first instance, but obviously it's

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Speaker 2: an operational decision for them. But he's and now asked

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Speaker 2: them to go back and reassure themselves and him that

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Speaker 2: that's been handled well.

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Speaker 1: So I'm up.

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Speaker 2: The week in totality, oh very I know how to

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Speaker 2: sell them up. Big week, really excited about the UK

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Speaker 2: relationship moving forward and having new things to feed it.

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Speaker 2: Blowing away by Gallipoli and being there on the dawn service.

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Speaker 2: Highlight for me was talking to Kiwis, who had made

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Speaker 2: the trip basically as pilgrimage.

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Speaker 3: Were a tired folk on a tour.

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Speaker 2: There was school groups there from all over New Zealand

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Speaker 2: that had come to show their respects to the Glipoli

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Speaker 2: and Anzac troops, and then obviously the Pope's funeral. Very

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Speaker 2: special to be there representing the country and just seeing

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Speaker 2: all those people and what he meant to them. And

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Speaker 2: I think a leader who had massive determination for the

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Speaker 2: church and for his cause, but also had massive amounts

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Speaker 2: of personal humility, and that's always a sign of a

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Speaker 2: good leader to me.

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Speaker 1: All right, listen, I appreciate New Time Trouble, Sorrifly Home

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Speaker 1: proustill likes and Prime Minister for more from the Mic

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Speaker 1: Asking Breakfast Listen live to news talks i'd be from

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Speaker 1: six am weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio