1 00:00:01,880 --> 00:00:05,680 Speaker 1: The huddle with New Zealand Southeby's International Realty the ones 2 00:00:05,720 --> 00:00:08,600 Speaker 1: for unlashed results right on the huddle of that's seven? 3 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:13,320 Speaker 2: Who got Pillow Riley former former Business Business New Zealand 4 00:00:13,360 --> 00:00:15,160 Speaker 2: boss and also I and you partners at the moment? 5 00:00:15,200 --> 00:00:17,360 Speaker 2: And Rob Campbell at Chancellor and former boss of Health 6 00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:17,840 Speaker 2: New Zealand. 7 00:00:17,840 --> 00:00:18,360 Speaker 1: How are you too? 8 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:20,040 Speaker 3: There? Are you going right? 9 00:00:20,120 --> 00:00:20,360 Speaker 4: Phil? 10 00:00:20,440 --> 00:00:23,000 Speaker 1: What do you make of that? From from Sharon Haskell? 11 00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:24,640 Speaker 3: I have a lot of sympathy. 12 00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:28,520 Speaker 1: We'll go Phils and then you Rob go Phil. 13 00:00:28,920 --> 00:00:31,000 Speaker 3: Thanks mate. I've a lot of sympathy for what for 14 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:33,840 Speaker 3: what she's saying, and a lot of what she's saying 15 00:00:33,880 --> 00:00:36,320 Speaker 3: I think is actually correct. I've been reading a lot 16 00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:38,720 Speaker 3: about this. But I also agree with our Prime Minister. 17 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:41,159 Speaker 3: I think I think they have lost the plot. I 18 00:00:41,240 --> 00:00:43,519 Speaker 3: think they need to they need to think about what 19 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:45,400 Speaker 3: the war aims are and how they get out of this, 20 00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:47,440 Speaker 3: and what they're doing now is not doing that. So 21 00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:50,440 Speaker 3: you know, I think Lusson's absolutely right. Actually, okay, what 22 00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:52,839 Speaker 3: do you make of it? Rob? Well? 23 00:00:52,880 --> 00:00:54,440 Speaker 4: You can see why it's hard to get peace out 24 00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:57,000 Speaker 4: of there, can't you? But I am you don't think 25 00:00:57,040 --> 00:01:00,320 Speaker 4: the Prime Minister is correct, it was good than show 26 00:01:00,400 --> 00:01:03,400 Speaker 4: some humanity. But the truth is is Netanyauh hasn't lost 27 00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:05,920 Speaker 4: the plot. He is carefully following the plot. It's been 28 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:08,880 Speaker 4: the same plot all the way along. They want to 29 00:01:09,240 --> 00:01:12,920 Speaker 4: destroy how Mass, they want to destroy Gaza and potentially 30 00:01:13,040 --> 00:01:16,839 Speaker 4: destroy the Palestinians, and I think it is the plot. 31 00:01:16,959 --> 00:01:19,160 Speaker 4: So I'm sorry. I think the Prime Minister's wrong. He 32 00:01:19,240 --> 00:01:20,880 Speaker 4: hasn't losted he's carrying it through. 33 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:24,400 Speaker 2: Interesting, Okay, listen, should Phil Should the Royal Commission of 34 00:01:24,440 --> 00:01:27,959 Speaker 2: Inquiry change its mind and summons just into ittail? 35 00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:31,119 Speaker 3: No? The reason is I don't. I think that's going 36 00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:34,680 Speaker 3: too far. And I think you know, the politicians who 37 00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:38,199 Speaker 3: refuse to turn up have demonstrated already to the public 38 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:40,480 Speaker 3: of New Zealand that the vary issues that have been 39 00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:42,920 Speaker 3: raised by the government about them right now, in other words, 40 00:01:42,959 --> 00:01:45,399 Speaker 3: they were on the podium of truth every day. They're 41 00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:47,480 Speaker 3: not prepared to turn up now. I think enough's been said, 42 00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:50,720 Speaker 3: and if there were summons, there'll be no good to it. Anyway. 43 00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:53,280 Speaker 3: They wouldn't say anything. They'd lawyer up there that you'd 44 00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:56,920 Speaker 3: have agree adversarial arrangement and the whole idea of this 45 00:01:57,040 --> 00:01:59,960 Speaker 3: Commission of Inquiry is to get to some actionable true, 46 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:03,400 Speaker 3: some actionable kind of stuff that can that can get 47 00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:05,360 Speaker 3: rid of the cracks and actually let us move forward together. 48 00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:07,720 Speaker 3: So you know they've done what they've done, I think 49 00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:10,040 Speaker 3: we move on. And because I'll cooperate with the inquiry 50 00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:10,519 Speaker 3: in other ways. 51 00:02:10,760 --> 00:02:13,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, if the point of it, and I agree Rob 52 00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:15,280 Speaker 2: that the point of it is to remove the cracks 53 00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:16,000 Speaker 2: and let us move on. 54 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:17,720 Speaker 1: This is not letting us move on, is it. 55 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:19,480 Speaker 2: If you don't have the very people who made the 56 00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:21,799 Speaker 2: decisions answering the questions in public. 57 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:25,519 Speaker 4: Well, I guess I don't know about the performance side 58 00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:27,880 Speaker 4: of it. I don't even know how much they've answered 59 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:30,600 Speaker 4: the legitimate questions that the Commission has I mean, if 60 00:02:30,639 --> 00:02:33,680 Speaker 4: they've answered the questions in some other way and want 61 00:02:33,760 --> 00:02:37,440 Speaker 4: to avoid the performance, I can sort of understand that. 62 00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:40,519 Speaker 4: And frankly, I don't think it's going to persuade anyone 63 00:02:40,600 --> 00:02:45,600 Speaker 4: either way to change their mind about the COVID period. Unfortunately, 64 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:47,160 Speaker 4: it would be good if we could do that and 65 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:49,600 Speaker 4: move on, But I don't think it's actually very Germane 66 00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:50,840 Speaker 4: to it. Whether they turn up or not. 67 00:02:51,360 --> 00:02:53,200 Speaker 2: Do you think, actually, Phil, now that I think about. 68 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:55,200 Speaker 2: It is possible that they have fallen into a trap 69 00:02:55,280 --> 00:02:58,760 Speaker 2: that was set for them, which is do you think so. 70 00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:02,520 Speaker 3: I mean, it's possible that was the case. That would 71 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:07,200 Speaker 3: be very cynical to say that, Heather, But well that's right, 72 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:09,440 Speaker 3: as was the government of the day, as was the 73 00:03:09,520 --> 00:03:12,440 Speaker 3: disindradurned government's reaction to COVID. That was highly political as well, 74 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:15,240 Speaker 3: of course, so there's politics everywhere year. But I think 75 00:03:15,639 --> 00:03:17,720 Speaker 3: you know that they were relying on this convention that 76 00:03:18,160 --> 00:03:20,600 Speaker 3: you know for politicians in public on commissions of inquiry, 77 00:03:20,639 --> 00:03:22,360 Speaker 3: a convention I was unaware of until I was made 78 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:24,120 Speaker 3: aware of it by that advice over the last couple 79 00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:26,320 Speaker 3: of days, by the way, but these are very unusual times, 80 00:03:26,360 --> 00:03:28,919 Speaker 3: and some of the commentators have made the point that 81 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:31,960 Speaker 3: in Britain, the various prime ministers and the various senior 82 00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:34,639 Speaker 3: officials did turn up and talk about this publicly because 83 00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:37,280 Speaker 3: they were unprecentered at times. That's the very point of 84 00:03:37,320 --> 00:03:39,600 Speaker 3: the matter, right. So I think they've done themselves damage 85 00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:41,160 Speaker 3: already by saying no, we're not going to turn up 86 00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:44,440 Speaker 3: publicly and talk about this, because by doing so they 87 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:46,440 Speaker 3: might have actually got more people on side with what 88 00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:48,240 Speaker 3: they were trying to do. They did have some hard 89 00:03:48,280 --> 00:03:50,720 Speaker 3: decisions to make. Whether we agreed with the decisions or not. 90 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:53,000 Speaker 3: Whether I agreed it's another matter. But I think they 91 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:55,680 Speaker 3: did themselves a disservice now by saying we won't talk 92 00:03:55,720 --> 00:03:57,800 Speaker 3: about it. But that's down to them. I don't think 93 00:03:57,880 --> 00:03:59,840 Speaker 3: the you know, forces them to turn up. 94 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:02,640 Speaker 1: In a court of law. 95 00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:05,160 Speaker 2: If you're accused of murder and you you don't take 96 00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:07,240 Speaker 2: the stand, you look guilty, and the same thing that's 97 00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:09,360 Speaker 2: just happened, right, except, of course, I mean I should 98 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:10,880 Speaker 2: clarify that not accused of murder at all. 99 00:04:11,160 --> 00:04:14,160 Speaker 1: Now, Rob, you're a union man. Have the teachers got 100 00:04:14,240 --> 00:04:14,840 Speaker 1: us on board? 101 00:04:17,760 --> 00:04:21,400 Speaker 4: The teachers typically can get offside in these disputes, and 102 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:24,440 Speaker 4: they'll be acutely aware of that. So I think that 103 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:28,400 Speaker 4: wait and see where these negotiations lead to. I'm not 104 00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:31,760 Speaker 4: too concerned about it at the moment, and I think 105 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:34,440 Speaker 4: that the teachers have got some legitimate arguments. You would 106 00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:37,280 Speaker 4: have thought that they could probably get them sorted out. 107 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:40,360 Speaker 4: It's a bit of a joke, this idea about you know, 108 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:43,239 Speaker 4: the government saying that they're not bargaining in good faith, 109 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:45,760 Speaker 4: because after all, the government has laid down some pretty 110 00:04:45,800 --> 00:04:48,400 Speaker 4: strict guidelines as to what could be done in the negotiation. 111 00:04:48,640 --> 00:04:51,240 Speaker 4: So is that good faith? I don't know. It might be, 112 00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:53,120 Speaker 4: is that they'll be able to sort something out. 113 00:04:53,400 --> 00:04:55,320 Speaker 1: I think they might have to fill because I'm in here. 114 00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:58,640 Speaker 2: Look at thirty pay rise in five years is out 115 00:04:58,720 --> 00:04:59,720 Speaker 2: the gate, isn't it? 116 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:03,560 Speaker 3: I agree? And of course A nine an old employer's advocate. 117 00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:05,960 Speaker 3: Rob's an old union official. So we'll say, alige to you. 118 00:05:06,120 --> 00:05:10,640 Speaker 3: These teachers are already getting four percent to seven and 119 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:12,599 Speaker 3: a half percent anyway, because they are on a stepped 120 00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:14,480 Speaker 3: pay increase each year, so that one percent is not 121 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:18,080 Speaker 3: one that's actually five to eight percent actually, as well 122 00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:20,200 Speaker 3: as that they're already being paid, according to the union, 123 00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:22,240 Speaker 3: about one hundred grand a year, which is not exactly 124 00:05:22,320 --> 00:05:24,760 Speaker 3: some change. So I think they just got to get 125 00:05:24,760 --> 00:05:26,360 Speaker 3: to the table. And I'm sure Rob is a good 126 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:28,240 Speaker 3: union official and the A is a good employer's advocate, 127 00:05:28,279 --> 00:05:30,680 Speaker 3: would say they've got to get to the table, try 128 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:32,760 Speaker 3: and sort it out, because if they do go on strike, 129 00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:35,480 Speaker 3: they have to demonstrate to mums and dads that they 130 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:37,080 Speaker 3: had no choice but to and I don't think they 131 00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:38,160 Speaker 3: demonstrated that just yet. 132 00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:42,159 Speaker 4: One of the very too. Things I've learned very early. 133 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:44,800 Speaker 4: Things I learned in the union and the negotiating world, 134 00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:48,960 Speaker 4: was that outside people's opinions about claims and counterclaims are 135 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:52,640 Speaker 4: almost always wrong and almost always unhelpful. So I think 136 00:05:53,839 --> 00:05:56,400 Speaker 4: almost then, to let the teachers and the government sort 137 00:05:56,440 --> 00:05:58,640 Speaker 4: of out themselves without us coming to go on who's 138 00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:00,520 Speaker 4: right and who's wrong, how it goes. 139 00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:04,920 Speaker 1: I thank you both, so thank you both, so much. 140 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:07,920 Speaker 1: Appreciate it. Rob Campbell, Fellow Raleigh A huddled this evening again. 141 00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:11,560 Speaker 2: For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to 142 00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:14,679 Speaker 2: news talks it'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow 143 00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:16,480 Speaker 2: the podcast on iHeartRadio.