WEBVTT - The Parent Squad with John Cowan: Getting through the puberty talk 0:00:05.761 --> 0:00:10.041 You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talk SEDB. 0:00:11.001 --> 0:00:24.721 Got its Shuman'. 0:00:21.721 --> 0:00:22.761 Yes some day. 0:00:25.161 --> 0:00:35.401 Music cut its sub human. 0:00:40.641 --> 0:00:43.281 As. Welcome back to the Weekend Collective. By the way, 0:00:43.321 --> 0:00:45.401 if you've missed any of our fabulous hours, you should 0:00:45.401 --> 0:00:48.201 go and check out our podcast. Actually, also, I think 0:00:48.201 --> 0:00:51.241 the whole show now is one big giant podcast where 0:00:51.241 --> 0:00:53.641 you can just lap it all up. Go to the 0:00:53.681 --> 0:00:57.481 iHeart iHeart Radio app and look for the Weekend Collective 0:00:58.641 --> 0:01:02.001 and yes so anyway, but now it's time for the 0:01:02.041 --> 0:01:04.441 parents squad. And I always get slightly. I always have 0:01:04.441 --> 0:01:07.921 a sense of optimism and good cheer with my with 0:01:07.921 --> 0:01:09.881 my guest because he's just an all around good guy 0:01:09.881 --> 0:01:11.401 and he he knows how to about me up with 0:01:11.481 --> 0:01:13.481 a not that he needs to, because he's the wonderful 0:01:13.521 --> 0:01:16.001 John Cowned. He's brought me a cup of tea already. John, Hello, 0:01:16.081 --> 0:01:16.521 how are you? 0:01:16.961 --> 0:01:19.681 I'm doing well? Oh? Part a bit of a man cold, 0:01:19.721 --> 0:01:24.521 you know, have you. I've been in Flemmed and cart rated. 0:01:25.281 --> 0:01:26.801 That's a word I made up. I think it worked 0:01:26.841 --> 0:01:29.801 with it and carta rated as in guitar. Oh, I 0:01:29.801 --> 0:01:33.561 don't think that works as well as Inflemmed guitar. Yeah, yeah, 0:01:33.601 --> 0:01:34.441 it always amused me. 0:01:34.441 --> 0:01:37.281 There was a country that sounded like that as well, Katar, 0:01:37.681 --> 0:01:41.401 And actually I used to pronounce k Qatar, and then 0:01:41.441 --> 0:01:43.241 my dad said he had some katar once and I 0:01:43.281 --> 0:01:45.841 was like, Oh, that's something else too, isn't he anyway? 0:01:45.881 --> 0:01:48.081 What is that just catar? It's just fat flame? Is 0:01:48.121 --> 0:01:49.441 it just a runny nose? 0:01:50.241 --> 0:01:50.681 I think so. 0:01:50.881 --> 0:01:55.481 I don't know bogies as children call them. Let's say, 0:01:55.481 --> 0:02:01.161 if we tied into a parent theme, Hello, welcome to 0:02:01.201 --> 0:02:03.721 the show. Nice to hey by, No, we wanted to 0:02:03.761 --> 0:02:07.041 talk about and ask you out there on O E 0:02:07.041 --> 0:02:11.641 one hundred and eighty ten eighty about the about the 0:02:11.641 --> 0:02:13.801 the puberty talk. I mean, we've had the birds and 0:02:13.841 --> 0:02:16.121 the bees talk. That's an old cliche talk about topic. 0:02:16.441 --> 0:02:19.201 And it's funny as when you're a young parent, you think, 0:02:19.521 --> 0:02:21.641 you know, you think about having the talk that you 0:02:21.681 --> 0:02:23.481 got from your parents about the birds and the bees. 0:02:23.841 --> 0:02:28.561 But puberty is something which I thought, well, actually, to 0:02:28.601 --> 0:02:32.081 be honest, I've got two daughters, and I just I 0:02:32.121 --> 0:02:33.841 think my wife might have said to me if I 0:02:33.921 --> 0:02:35.681 joked about something one more time than she was going 0:02:35.721 --> 0:02:37.921 to give, I was going to give the talk but basically, 0:02:38.161 --> 0:02:41.841 I just like, honey, it's girls bits. I don't know 0:02:41.841 --> 0:02:45.481 how to explain any of this. You know, you're a woman. 0:02:46.521 --> 0:02:50.201 You know you do have an incredibly valuable role as 0:02:50.201 --> 0:02:51.681 your daughter's going to puberty. 0:02:51.921 --> 0:02:52.521 Do ill? 0:02:52.601 --> 0:02:55.841 Yeah, And look, I sometimes think the idea of the 0:02:56.081 --> 0:03:00.241 talk is somewhat overrated. Yes, I mean, the schools actually 0:03:00.281 --> 0:03:02.521 don't do a bad job of educating kids on a 0:03:02.561 --> 0:03:04.801 lot of these things, and and all that sort of thing. 0:03:04.841 --> 0:03:06.281 So what is the role of a parent in this 0:03:06.801 --> 0:03:09.961 hugely important including dads with their daughters and mums with 0:03:10.041 --> 0:03:13.041 their sons. And I'm happy to riff on that. 0:03:13.321 --> 0:03:15.361 Because yes, I think I think i'd like. 0:03:15.401 --> 0:03:17.161 You leaning forward into the microphone. 0:03:17.401 --> 0:03:20.481 Actually, language didn't. I thought, oh, this is sounding good. 0:03:20.641 --> 0:03:24.521 But actually when I say I left it over to her. 0:03:24.921 --> 0:03:28.481 The one thing I have made a point of it's 0:03:28.521 --> 0:03:31.521 not about the talk, but it's about my reaction to 0:03:31.641 --> 0:03:34.321 anything that they want to share with me. And actually, 0:03:34.481 --> 0:03:37.881 surprisingly my daughters have no stigma about sharing way too 0:03:37.961 --> 0:03:41.281 much information. But I mean that you will talk about 0:03:41.281 --> 0:03:46.481 how to stop that. I think, Actually, funnily enough, I 0:03:46.481 --> 0:03:50.001 think it's called puberty that stops it. Almost their teenage 0:03:50.081 --> 0:03:51.161 years it's like, I don't. 0:03:50.921 --> 0:03:54.201 Tell there's huge changes as regards sometimes the flow of 0:03:54.201 --> 0:03:58.361 information and breaks dad's hearts hmm, terribly. So those add mums, 0:03:58.361 --> 0:04:00.241 I guess they go from being your best mate to 0:04:00.321 --> 0:04:03.241 someone who's not talking to you at all. And oh, yeah, 0:04:03.281 --> 0:04:07.121 that's a that's one that's it's interesting to unpack. 0:04:07.401 --> 0:04:09.961 Yeah, But in terms of the actual mechanics of it, 0:04:10.001 --> 0:04:13.441 I mean, I don't know how many solo dads have 0:04:13.481 --> 0:04:15.601 to give that talk or whether they actually because you know, 0:04:15.641 --> 0:04:18.641 when it comes to periods and I'm thinking about girls, 0:04:18.681 --> 0:04:19.761 probably more for boys. 0:04:20.041 --> 0:04:22.001 Well, you've got your daughters, so it's probably foremost. 0:04:22.001 --> 0:04:25.281 Well, there's a bit more to manage for young young women, 0:04:25.361 --> 0:04:28.601 isn't there. Let's be honest, let's not for boys. One 0:04:28.641 --> 0:04:31.121 might argue it's a piece of cake in comparison. In fact, 0:04:31.121 --> 0:04:31.841 I think I would. 0:04:31.761 --> 0:04:33.801 Argue that only for the rest of the whole of 0:04:33.801 --> 0:04:34.321 their lives. 0:04:36.401 --> 0:04:39.121 Okay, But I mean, so, okay, what's the role of 0:04:39.921 --> 0:04:41.561 what's the role of dads in this if they're not 0:04:41.601 --> 0:04:43.361 going to give them mechanics chat. 0:04:43.241 --> 0:04:49.681 Okay, let's assume that. Look, this is speaking of broad 0:04:49.721 --> 0:04:50.201 brush stroke. 0:04:50.441 --> 0:04:53.321 Actually, by the way, this is broad of course it's 0:04:53.361 --> 0:04:54.281 broad because. 0:04:54.081 --> 0:04:58.281 Because there's such a lot of individualism, different situations, different 0:04:58.281 --> 0:05:02.561 personalities and things. But in this broad brush stroke picture 0:05:02.601 --> 0:05:04.481 that I'm going to paint that you can pick holes 0:05:04.481 --> 0:05:07.081 and all over the place. A girl does look to 0:05:07.121 --> 0:05:09.401 her mom as a role model in these things, and 0:05:09.441 --> 0:05:13.441 so she is an ideal person to deliver certain bits 0:05:13.441 --> 0:05:16.441 of information and things because it's lived experience, and so 0:05:16.561 --> 0:05:18.961 she has a great deal of authority, and the girls 0:05:19.001 --> 0:05:22.561 recognize that because she knows what she's talking about. But 0:05:23.041 --> 0:05:26.481 if if she's looking to her mum to find out 0:05:26.481 --> 0:05:29.201 how to be a woman, she's looking to her dad 0:05:29.201 --> 0:05:33.001 to find out what type of woman am I becoming? Now, 0:05:33.201 --> 0:05:37.281 this means that they are intensely sensitive to what people 0:05:37.321 --> 0:05:39.921 think of them as they're coming into puberty, their mates 0:05:40.281 --> 0:05:45.001 the opposite sex, but also dad's what is a dad's 0:05:45.041 --> 0:05:49.161 opinion of their daughters? And they look to your inflection, 0:05:49.641 --> 0:05:53.921 your and look so And this is where dad sometimes 0:05:54.001 --> 0:05:58.201 get it so wrong, because they might be suddenly alarmed 0:05:58.241 --> 0:06:01.081 by the way their daughter is dressing. They might be 0:06:01.121 --> 0:06:03.241 alarmed by the fact that their little girl wants to 0:06:03.241 --> 0:06:05.961 give them a hug, and now she's got bumps and 0:06:06.121 --> 0:06:09.281 they push her away, and because I was thinking, you know, 0:06:09.321 --> 0:06:13.441 because there's such strong taboos in our culture about inappropriate 0:06:13.481 --> 0:06:16.921 touching and things like this, And so they're now maturing, 0:06:17.041 --> 0:06:19.961 daughter comes for a cuddle or something and they sense 0:06:20.121 --> 0:06:25.281 dad being resistant or backing off or pushing them away, 0:06:25.761 --> 0:06:30.041 and suddenly the most important man in their world is 0:06:30.081 --> 0:06:31.281 apparently rejecting them. 0:06:31.481 --> 0:06:33.561 God into my mind of it. 0:06:35.281 --> 0:06:37.801 And dads often change the way they respond to their 0:06:37.841 --> 0:06:40.561 girls as they're entering into puberty because there is just 0:06:40.601 --> 0:06:44.361 that less, be honest, a sexual dynamic there that wasn't 0:06:44.401 --> 0:06:49.361 there before, because you know, they're developing a feminine form, 0:06:49.881 --> 0:06:51.081 and I guess Dad's. 0:06:50.801 --> 0:06:52.841 Been careful and because they want they do have to. 0:06:52.761 --> 0:06:56.201 Be appropriate and everything, but you have to do it 0:06:56.201 --> 0:07:00.401 in a way that doesn't transmit a mixed the wrong 0:07:00.481 --> 0:07:06.601 message that girls could interpret as rejection and judgment and things. 0:07:06.841 --> 0:07:08.841 And the same when they get a bit cross about 0:07:08.881 --> 0:07:11.281 the way that their girls might be dressing or using 0:07:11.361 --> 0:07:15.081 makeup and things like this, and the all over stereotype 0:07:15.121 --> 0:07:17.201 of the dad going you're not going out dressed like 0:07:17.241 --> 0:07:18.641 this and that type of thing. 0:07:19.361 --> 0:07:21.321 I think dads are a bit more. I feel that 0:07:21.401 --> 0:07:23.561 this generation of dads are a bit more like, oh well, 0:07:26.521 --> 0:07:29.201 actually make the argument I think young modern dads are. 0:07:30.681 --> 0:07:32.921 They're probably even the more switched. I don't think actually 0:07:32.961 --> 0:07:33.521 you know why. 0:07:33.721 --> 0:07:36.961 I think because they see, we just have so we're 0:07:36.961 --> 0:07:40.521 bombarded with so much more, so much more in terms 0:07:40.561 --> 0:07:43.121 of social media and imagery that we know what's coming. 0:07:43.481 --> 0:07:45.681 As I oppose, I think that dads who get the 0:07:46.001 --> 0:07:49.481 traditional dad from yeah, you know, just go back thirty 0:07:49.561 --> 0:07:52.841 forty years where and you know, I'm generalizing, but where 0:07:52.921 --> 0:07:55.161 dads went off to work and came home and they yeah, 0:07:55.601 --> 0:08:00.161 they they maybe didn't encounter their friend's peers until they 0:08:01.321 --> 0:08:02.641 met them when they were all going to a party 0:08:02.641 --> 0:08:05.481 at the end of sixteen. So much and these days 0:08:06.001 --> 0:08:09.041 you'd have to be a complete dunce not to know 0:08:09.121 --> 0:08:11.321 a little bit about teenage culture, wouldn't you. 0:08:11.521 --> 0:08:15.041 I think so, in fact, we're not. Teenage culture is 0:08:15.081 --> 0:08:18.561 probably similar in some of those same respects about partying 0:08:18.601 --> 0:08:22.641 and things when even when I a relative dinosaur went 0:08:22.681 --> 0:08:27.721 through and so uh. But that's just something to be 0:08:27.761 --> 0:08:32.321 conscious of you if you're thinking of this again. Broad stroke, 0:08:32.721 --> 0:08:34.681 The girl looks to her mum to see how to 0:08:34.721 --> 0:08:36.521 become a woman. She looks to a dad what type 0:08:36.561 --> 0:08:39.161 of woman am I becoming? Because that's one of their 0:08:39.321 --> 0:08:43.281 prime life goals during puberty is to find out who 0:08:43.321 --> 0:08:46.281 am I? What am I capable of? And especially you know, 0:08:46.321 --> 0:08:48.801 how are people assessing me? They're working out? You know, 0:08:48.841 --> 0:08:51.921 am I attractive? Am I? You know? Do people want 0:08:51.961 --> 0:08:54.401 to hang out with me? Where do I fit in? 0:08:55.001 --> 0:09:00.401 All those sorts of things, and and so a dad's 0:09:00.441 --> 0:09:03.441 opinion is incredibly significant. So the thing to bear in 0:09:03.481 --> 0:09:08.401 mind is always, as you may not you know, exactly 0:09:08.481 --> 0:09:11.641 understand what's going on in your girl's world. But if 0:09:11.641 --> 0:09:16.681 your attitude is always one of affection, acceptance, and you know, 0:09:17.161 --> 0:09:20.361 and warm admiration, you know, I. 0:09:20.281 --> 0:09:23.361 Think my look, we all have different appress things. By 0:09:23.401 --> 0:09:25.441 the way, we're not meaning to overstate things either. It's 0:09:25.481 --> 0:09:29.721 just that it's a natural in terms of overly creepifying 0:09:29.721 --> 0:09:31.961 all that sort of stuff, but it is it's also 0:09:32.001 --> 0:09:34.561 about respecting. The funny thing is I think that the 0:09:34.721 --> 0:09:37.601 girls make those decisions in a way. So for instance, 0:09:38.161 --> 0:09:40.161 there came a time there would have been a time 0:09:40.201 --> 0:09:45.161 when you know, if in the shower, that if your 0:09:45.241 --> 0:09:47.481 kids are in the bath or shower, that when they're 0:09:47.481 --> 0:09:49.721 tiny tots. You don't knock, You just go in because 0:09:49.961 --> 0:09:51.641 you know, it's only been a couple of years since 0:09:51.641 --> 0:09:55.721 you obathing them anyway, And I actually do. I've noticed 0:09:55.721 --> 0:09:57.601 that with one of my daughters. Now I sort of think, 0:09:57.641 --> 0:10:00.241 I think I might need to knock and see what 0:10:00.281 --> 0:10:02.361 she says. And then there is a change. It's like, 0:10:02.401 --> 0:10:04.841 don't come in yet, and I just respect that. 0:10:05.481 --> 0:10:09.001 Look, that's the key word, that our word respect, and 0:10:09.041 --> 0:10:13.081 that's something you can model from early on. People talk 0:10:13.121 --> 0:10:20.321 about the talk psychosexual education starts right from babyhood where 0:10:19.841 --> 0:10:22.961 you where you're modeling a healthy respect for their body 0:10:23.001 --> 0:10:28.161 and your own appropriate language to discuss bodies. They don't 0:10:28.161 --> 0:10:31.401 need to know the full Latin terms. Most families have 0:10:31.881 --> 0:10:35.761 a sort of like a fairly friendly vocabulary to appropriate, 0:10:36.161 --> 0:10:40.641 you know, so that they can talk about it. And 0:10:40.641 --> 0:10:45.441 and yeah, appropriate modesty, I mean it's not it's not 0:10:46.961 --> 0:10:49.921 kind to let your kids go off to kindergarten without 0:10:50.001 --> 0:10:54.321 knowing about appropriate pretenty first century modesty about what you 0:10:54.321 --> 0:10:57.641 can touch, what you look at, you know, how toileting 0:10:57.761 --> 0:10:59.761 is done, and things like that. That's all part of 0:10:59.801 --> 0:11:04.921 the education from early on. But the thing is as 0:11:05.321 --> 0:11:09.161 moving through into puberty, it does change gear and they 0:11:09.201 --> 0:11:12.401 become very self conscious and we need to be And 0:11:12.441 --> 0:11:16.201 again that respect, by the way, mum's opinions of their sons, 0:11:16.441 --> 0:11:19.761 that counts for a lot too. I mean boys sometimes 0:11:20.841 --> 0:11:23.641 and possibly girls too. For a little while in early puberty, 0:11:24.121 --> 0:11:26.961 they're a bit like a building site. Something beautiful is 0:11:27.001 --> 0:11:29.561 being created there, but at the moment it's a bit 0:11:29.601 --> 0:11:32.441 of a mess. You know, the hands and noses and 0:11:32.521 --> 0:11:38.801 ears grow proportionately faster, and you know, they sometimes don't 0:11:38.841 --> 0:11:43.241 move very elegantly. Sometimes their complexion breaks out and you know, 0:11:43.761 --> 0:11:46.601 if you if your son walks into the room and 0:11:46.681 --> 0:11:49.641 he's you know, his lank, greasy hair is hanging down 0:11:49.641 --> 0:11:52.001 over his pimple face and a mum goes, what a 0:11:52.041 --> 0:11:54.281 stud muff And some girl's going to be so lucky 0:11:54.321 --> 0:11:57.401 to get my book. You go, oh, mum and pretends 0:11:57.401 --> 0:11:59.121 he doesn't believe it. But honestly, they probably go. 0:11:59.121 --> 0:11:59.841 Out and get your hair cut. 0:11:59.881 --> 0:12:04.601 It comes to proos actually that I know, friendly admiration 0:12:04.761 --> 0:12:07.681 and respect and just they picked that up and it 0:12:08.281 --> 0:12:09.361 does something to their hearts. 0:12:09.401 --> 0:12:11.881 But with the I mean with physical changes and stuff. 0:12:11.961 --> 0:12:14.801 To me, I think even the solo dads I've known 0:12:14.881 --> 0:12:18.721 have usually enlisted for daughters, have enlisted a trusted older 0:12:18.721 --> 0:12:19.881 female friend to explain it. 0:12:19.881 --> 0:12:22.121 If you're not done not dumb. 0:12:22.241 --> 0:12:25.281 Well, I guess it's just because yeah, I mean that 0:12:25.441 --> 0:12:27.041 seems to me it's like you're just bringing in an 0:12:27.081 --> 0:12:29.561 expert as opposed to daddy knows a bit about it. 0:12:29.601 --> 0:12:31.201 But really, I mean there's a whole lot of stuff 0:12:31.201 --> 0:12:32.921 that dad wouldn't necessarily know about. You'd have to be 0:12:32.921 --> 0:12:35.521 a very cool dad to be explained. You know exactly 0:12:35.561 --> 0:12:37.561 everything about tampons and all that sort of thing, mind you. 0:12:37.601 --> 0:12:40.241 I think that's the thing. Schools actually they're not too bad. 0:12:40.281 --> 0:12:42.201 Schools actually do quite a lot on this stuff. Now, 0:12:42.201 --> 0:12:43.361 don't they know that? 0:12:44.121 --> 0:12:47.561 I mean, it doesn't mean you abdicate your responsibility, but look, 0:12:47.601 --> 0:12:50.841 half the planet has got the experience of this, and 0:12:50.921 --> 0:12:53.481 so there's probably someone in your world that can help 0:12:53.761 --> 0:12:57.921 your girl. It's it's again, it's cruel to allow them 0:12:57.961 --> 0:13:00.401 to be coming into puberty without knowing how to be 0:13:00.441 --> 0:13:04.481 prepared and knowing what happens. You know, But but there's 0:13:04.481 --> 0:13:08.521 so much more. There's aspects of this. You know, a 0:13:08.561 --> 0:13:12.361 lot of teenagers crash in their relationships with each other, 0:13:12.481 --> 0:13:14.961 with themselves, with their parents during the stage. They need 0:13:15.001 --> 0:13:18.561 to know things about how moods change as you get 0:13:18.601 --> 0:13:22.441 into puberty, about how you'll You've always felt anger and 0:13:22.521 --> 0:13:24.281 hilarity and things like that, but as you get into 0:13:24.321 --> 0:13:26.841 puberty it's like someone cranks the volume knob up on 0:13:26.881 --> 0:13:29.841 a lot of these things. And just just knowing that 0:13:30.161 --> 0:13:33.961 sometimes when they feel that those strong emotions they can 0:13:34.001 --> 0:13:36.721 have some insight into that can so help them navigate 0:13:36.761 --> 0:13:37.161 around this. 0:13:37.561 --> 0:13:39.681 Hey, when did you When did you? 0:13:39.761 --> 0:13:43.161 When did I go through puberty? I've never I've been 0:13:43.201 --> 0:13:46.041 avoiding it for the last sixty years. That wasn't your question? 0:13:46.161 --> 0:13:46.321 Was it? 0:13:46.361 --> 0:13:46.481 Now? 0:13:46.481 --> 0:13:49.481 Actually funny on that theme about when do you ever? 0:13:49.761 --> 0:13:54.281 You know that it's funny the notion of when you 0:13:54.321 --> 0:13:57.081 grow up? And I know we've moved away a little 0:13:57.121 --> 0:13:59.521 bit from the puberty chapter, just as an observation for me, 0:14:01.081 --> 0:14:04.001 I don't know if there's really it's when do you 0:14:04.041 --> 0:14:06.521 actually think you actually do transit. I was used to 0:14:06.521 --> 0:14:08.561 think that as you're growing up, you know, when you 0:14:08.601 --> 0:14:10.441 become an adult or when you're such and such. I 0:14:10.441 --> 0:14:12.521 actually never really felt there was any In fact, for 0:14:12.601 --> 0:14:16.961 most many partners of men would probably say, well, they 0:14:17.081 --> 0:14:19.841 never grow up, but I think it's sort of a 0:14:19.881 --> 0:14:22.561 bit of an artificial there's physical changes for sure, and 0:14:23.321 --> 0:14:26.121 you become able to make more decisions. But I don't 0:14:26.121 --> 0:14:28.441 know if you ever really if there's a magic moment 0:14:28.441 --> 0:14:31.001 when okay, probably when you have your own kids. 0:14:31.001 --> 0:14:34.001 I think you have to grow up a bit. That's 0:14:34.041 --> 0:14:39.881 about it. Your parents' funeral that makes you feel very okay. Okay, no, look, no, no, no, 0:14:39.961 --> 0:14:43.041 That I means, look, there's lots of these little threshold moments, 0:14:43.041 --> 0:14:45.041 and you see that's a that's a big thing for boys, 0:14:45.121 --> 0:14:49.081 the idea of a threshold into maturity, and in most cultures, 0:14:49.321 --> 0:14:52.321 through most of history, it's usually being marked by some 0:14:52.361 --> 0:14:56.201 type of ceremony where the men of a community. 0:14:56.201 --> 0:14:57.121 The yard lass. 0:14:57.481 --> 0:15:00.841 You know, well, look, honestly, that's what it's become. That's 0:15:00.841 --> 0:15:03.681 not what it what beds should be where there is 0:15:03.681 --> 0:15:07.881 some idea of test and acceptance, and that is something 0:15:07.881 --> 0:15:11.801 which is hugely missing from our culture, and so it's 0:15:11.801 --> 0:15:15.801 been replaced by you know, seeing how fast a car 0:15:15.841 --> 0:15:17.841 will go, how far you can get with a girl, 0:15:17.921 --> 0:15:21.521 how drunk you can get, or even the oe. They're 0:15:21.521 --> 0:15:25.281 all sort of like these threshold sort of experiences that 0:15:25.561 --> 0:15:28.521 prove to themselves in the world that they are a 0:15:28.561 --> 0:15:32.961 man now, and some of them are quite dumb, dangerous 0:15:33.001 --> 0:15:35.961 and unhealthy, when in fact it could be something better. 0:15:36.161 --> 0:15:41.481 So things that are quite healthy are things like graduations. 0:15:41.961 --> 0:15:44.641 Make a big fuss of them, you know, graduate getting 0:15:45.241 --> 0:15:48.361 a qualification at school or something like that. It used 0:15:48.401 --> 0:15:51.281 to be in my era wearing long pants. I know 0:15:51.361 --> 0:15:54.801 that sounds dumb, but you went from wearing short pants. Look, 0:15:55.161 --> 0:15:56.801 you make it sound like I grew up in tom 0:15:56.881 --> 0:16:00.761 you know Tom Brown school days. But honestly, back then 0:16:01.161 --> 0:16:03.241 you wore short pants when you're a kid. But when 0:16:03.321 --> 0:16:04.801 you walk long pants you. 0:16:04.801 --> 0:16:09.201 Were accept accept in the seventies with whatever those disgraceful 0:16:09.201 --> 0:16:12.561 walk shorts and long long socks and shoes that all 0:16:12.641 --> 0:16:14.841 male teachers seem to wear with a short sleeve shirt 0:16:14.881 --> 0:16:15.561 and a tie. 0:16:15.801 --> 0:16:19.321 What the hell that was? Liberty? Mate? That was that 0:16:19.441 --> 0:16:22.401 was cool, high fashion liberty. 0:16:22.561 --> 0:16:26.241 But actually, no, that's a really interesting question. What are 0:16:26.281 --> 0:16:28.681 the what are those moments where we're actually driving? 0:16:28.801 --> 0:16:32.241 Getting a driving license is a huge thing for a 0:16:32.241 --> 0:16:34.401 lot of people. You know, that marks the difference between 0:16:34.401 --> 0:16:35.881 a kid and an adult. 0:16:36.041 --> 0:16:38.241 Well, that is a making level of responsibility which you 0:16:38.281 --> 0:16:38.601 can have. 0:16:38.721 --> 0:16:41.801 Because there's the aspect of test and then recognition and 0:16:41.841 --> 0:16:43.401 this is coming from the government. 0:16:43.041 --> 0:16:45.721 Well, and not killing and the ability of driving a 0:16:45.721 --> 0:16:47.401 machine where you if you make a bad decision, you 0:16:47.441 --> 0:16:48.161 can kill yourself. 0:16:48.401 --> 0:16:51.281 We're not noticearily talking about even the mechanics of it. 0:16:51.281 --> 0:16:53.001 I'm just talking the fact that you are now a 0:16:53.161 --> 0:16:56.521 licensed driver. We're talking about those things that delineate between 0:16:56.561 --> 0:17:00.041 being a little kid and being a man. And so 0:17:01.121 --> 0:17:02.801 we as a culture need to make more of a 0:17:02.841 --> 0:17:06.601 fuss of that, you know what, moving up a grade 0:17:06.601 --> 0:17:07.281 in sports. 0:17:07.361 --> 0:17:10.321 And so I think you've reminded me of something because 0:17:10.361 --> 0:17:13.961 we they in America they have high school graduations and 0:17:14.001 --> 0:17:17.041 they make a really big deal. It's creeping in here. 0:17:17.241 --> 0:17:19.881 And I must say, when I was younger, I was like, 0:17:20.001 --> 0:17:21.521 what do you want to graduate from high school? It's 0:17:21.561 --> 0:17:24.201 just something that happens because you've changed, because you've got older. 0:17:25.441 --> 0:17:27.961 And yet maybe there is a point to that, because 0:17:28.321 --> 0:17:30.561 I always thought that, you know, okay, graduations when you 0:17:30.561 --> 0:17:32.801 go off and do some other when you finally finish 0:17:32.921 --> 0:17:34.601 the dreaded years of school and you go off and 0:17:34.641 --> 0:17:38.481 do something else, then you mark that success. Although I 0:17:38.521 --> 0:17:41.041 never particularly cared about it because even graduation. I was like, oh, 0:17:41.041 --> 0:17:42.241 I've got my degree. What I want to go and 0:17:42.241 --> 0:17:44.681 stick a silly costume on and go walk parade down 0:17:44.681 --> 0:17:45.081 the street. 0:17:45.881 --> 0:17:47.761 But that was just was a buzz, wasn't it? When 0:17:47.801 --> 0:17:49.161 I didn't do it? 0:17:48.361 --> 0:17:49.561 No, I wasn't. 0:17:49.681 --> 0:17:52.041 I didn't see the point. Oh, okay, is that weird? 0:17:52.441 --> 0:17:55.801 Probably well anyway where I carry it. But there's things 0:17:55.841 --> 0:17:58.681 like that. It seems to be the idea of being 0:17:58.761 --> 0:18:03.721 recognized in your in your leap forward into maturity, which 0:18:03.721 --> 0:18:09.201 seemed to matter. But particularly for boys, okay, And when 0:18:09.241 --> 0:18:12.441 they don't have that, what do they do? It's you know, they, 0:18:12.561 --> 0:18:14.441 as I say, cate their own fun and they can 0:18:14.481 --> 0:18:19.121 be not that. Yeah, they create their own proofs of manhood, 0:18:19.161 --> 0:18:24.521 which is often around cars, drinking, sex, sometimes travel. But 0:18:24.841 --> 0:18:28.321 you know, the imitations of what I think is in 0:18:28.401 --> 0:18:32.961 the the real psychology of a boy becoming a man. 0:18:33.001 --> 0:18:36.041 Actually, Mike's texted are saying that we grow up when 0:18:36.041 --> 0:18:40.841 we when we become aware of our mortality. Yeah, that 0:18:41.081 --> 0:18:43.361 is probably quite well. I think you referred to the 0:18:43.401 --> 0:18:45.561 death of your parents. I think that's no. 0:18:45.681 --> 0:18:48.961 Yeah for me, being aware of your own mortality, but 0:18:48.441 --> 0:18:49.361 that of. 0:18:49.481 --> 0:18:52.521 Those lessons you learn for it through bereavement. For me, 0:18:52.681 --> 0:18:56.201 I think probably it's funny. I mean, the death of 0:18:56.201 --> 0:18:59.481 your parents is a massive thing, but the first serious 0:18:59.521 --> 0:19:03.641 bereavement could be even of a beloved pet or your 0:19:03.641 --> 0:19:05.721 favorite uncle or something like that. And actually for me 0:19:05.761 --> 0:19:11.321 it was it was an uncle who was just he 0:19:11.401 --> 0:19:14.161 was charismatic and funny, and he used to love watching 0:19:14.201 --> 0:19:15.721 all of us play sport, and he was just he 0:19:15.761 --> 0:19:18.761 was just really involved, and one day he had a 0:19:18.801 --> 0:19:21.841 surprise heart attack. Mom and dad just sort of dropped 0:19:21.841 --> 0:19:23.841 it on me. You can't there's only one way of 0:19:23.841 --> 0:19:26.801 telling something. I mean, you can't ease someone into it, 0:19:26.881 --> 0:19:29.681 like something's bad happened. They have a thought about how bad. No, 0:19:29.761 --> 0:19:34.161 it's worse than that. It's yeah, I don't know why. 0:19:34.161 --> 0:19:35.761 I mean, yeah, I know there's lots of things that 0:19:35.801 --> 0:19:38.961 sort of mark off your progress into maturity, that awareness 0:19:39.041 --> 0:19:42.441 of death. You know, kids actually musually aware of it 0:19:42.521 --> 0:19:45.161 before then, and they can worry about it before the end. 0:19:45.281 --> 0:19:48.521 But the sad thing about a puberty often is that 0:19:48.561 --> 0:19:51.121 they think they bullet proof and don't think of it enough. 0:19:52.241 --> 0:19:54.601 Possibly actually happen to take your cause on this. Was 0:19:54.641 --> 0:19:56.681 there a way that you marked your moment of growing 0:19:56.761 --> 0:19:59.801 up when you decided that you weren't just well, you 0:19:59.841 --> 0:20:02.961 weren't a child that you may be had moved on 0:20:03.001 --> 0:20:04.921 to a new stage of life, calling that would love 0:20:04.921 --> 0:20:06.681 to from you. On No. Eight hundred and eighty, teen eighty. 0:20:07.321 --> 0:20:09.441 My guest is John Cown. This is the Parents Squad 0:20:09.441 --> 0:20:11.321 on Timbibridge. Will be back in just a moment. It's 0:20:11.361 --> 0:20:14.001 twenty seven past five. News talks a. 0:20:16.241 --> 0:20:20.561 Body. If you don't want to. 0:20:20.481 --> 0:20:36.161 See week summing, don't show, don't come now. 0:20:37.241 --> 0:20:43.881 Don't duck caring tell me now Walco don't know how, 0:20:44.961 --> 0:20:49.961 don't duck carriddle, tell me now? Aunt you the day. 0:20:51.521 --> 0:20:53.761 Try to me. 0:20:53.921 --> 0:20:57.121 With news talks, it'd be this is the Parents Squad 0:20:57.161 --> 0:20:59.241 with the Tim beverage. John Cown's my guess we're talking 0:20:59.241 --> 0:21:01.441 about actually should we be making more of an effort 0:21:01.441 --> 0:21:06.681