Speaker 1: You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talk SEDB.
Speaker 2: Got its Shuman'.
Speaker 3: Yes some day.
Speaker 4: Music cut its sub human.
Speaker 5: As. Welcome back to the Weekend Collective. By the way,
Speaker 5: if you've missed any of our fabulous hours, you should
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Speaker 5: and yes so anyway, but now it's time for the
Speaker 5: parents squad. And I always get slightly. I always have
Speaker 5: a sense of optimism and good cheer with my with
Speaker 5: my guest because he's just an all around good guy
Speaker 5: and he he knows how to about me up with
Speaker 5: a not that he needs to, because he's the wonderful
Speaker 5: John Cowned. He's brought me a cup of tea already. John, Hello,
Speaker 5: how are you?
Speaker 4: I'm doing well? Oh? Part a bit of a man cold,
Speaker 4: you know, have you. I've been in Flemmed and cart rated.
Speaker 4: That's a word I made up. I think it worked
Speaker 4: with it and carta rated as in guitar. Oh, I
Speaker 4: don't think that works as well as Inflemmed guitar. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 4: it always amused me.
Speaker 5: There was a country that sounded like that as well, Katar,
Speaker 5: And actually I used to pronounce k Qatar, and then
Speaker 5: my dad said he had some katar once and I
Speaker 5: was like, Oh, that's something else too, isn't he anyway?
Speaker 5: What is that just catar? It's just fat flame? Is
Speaker 5: it just a runny nose?
Speaker 4: I think so.
Speaker 5: I don't know bogies as children call them. Let's say,
Speaker 5: if we tied into a parent theme, Hello, welcome to
Speaker 5: the show. Nice to hey by, No, we wanted to
Speaker 5: talk about and ask you out there on O E
Speaker 5: one hundred and eighty ten eighty about the about the
Speaker 5: the puberty talk. I mean, we've had the birds and
Speaker 5: the bees talk. That's an old cliche talk about topic.
Speaker 5: And it's funny as when you're a young parent, you think,
Speaker 5: you know, you think about having the talk that you
Speaker 5: got from your parents about the birds and the bees.
Speaker 5: But puberty is something which I thought, well, actually, to
Speaker 5: be honest, I've got two daughters, and I just I
Speaker 5: think my wife might have said to me if I
Speaker 5: joked about something one more time than she was going
Speaker 5: to give, I was going to give the talk but basically,
Speaker 5: I just like, honey, it's girls bits. I don't know
Speaker 5: how to explain any of this. You know, you're a woman.
Speaker 4: You know you do have an incredibly valuable role as
Speaker 4: your daughter's going to puberty.
Speaker 5: Do ill?
Speaker 4: Yeah, And look, I sometimes think the idea of the
Speaker 4: talk is somewhat overrated. Yes, I mean, the schools actually
Speaker 4: don't do a bad job of educating kids on a
Speaker 4: lot of these things, and and all that sort of thing.
Speaker 4: So what is the role of a parent in this
Speaker 4: hugely important including dads with their daughters and mums with
Speaker 4: their sons. And I'm happy to riff on that.
Speaker 5: Because yes, I think I think i'd like.
Speaker 4: You leaning forward into the microphone.
Speaker 5: Actually, language didn't. I thought, oh, this is sounding good.
Speaker 5: But actually when I say I left it over to her.
Speaker 5: The one thing I have made a point of it's
Speaker 5: not about the talk, but it's about my reaction to
Speaker 5: anything that they want to share with me. And actually,
Speaker 5: surprisingly my daughters have no stigma about sharing way too
Speaker 5: much information. But I mean that you will talk about
Speaker 5: how to stop that. I think, Actually, funnily enough, I
Speaker 5: think it's called puberty that stops it. Almost their teenage
Speaker 5: years it's like, I don't.
Speaker 4: Tell there's huge changes as regards sometimes the flow of
Speaker 4: information and breaks dad's hearts hmm, terribly. So those add mums,
Speaker 4: I guess they go from being your best mate to
Speaker 4: someone who's not talking to you at all. And oh, yeah,
Speaker 4: that's a that's one that's it's interesting to unpack.
Speaker 5: Yeah, But in terms of the actual mechanics of it,
Speaker 5: I mean, I don't know how many solo dads have
Speaker 5: to give that talk or whether they actually because you know,
Speaker 5: when it comes to periods and I'm thinking about girls,
Speaker 5: probably more for boys.
Speaker 4: Well, you've got your daughters, so it's probably foremost.
Speaker 5: Well, there's a bit more to manage for young young women,
Speaker 5: isn't there. Let's be honest, let's not for boys. One
Speaker 5: might argue it's a piece of cake in comparison. In fact,
Speaker 5: I think I would.
Speaker 4: Argue that only for the rest of the whole of
Speaker 4: their lives.
Speaker 5: Okay, But I mean, so, okay, what's the role of
Speaker 5: what's the role of dads in this if they're not
Speaker 5: going to give them mechanics chat.
Speaker 4: Okay, let's assume that. Look, this is speaking of broad
Speaker 4: brush stroke.
Speaker 5: Actually, by the way, this is broad of course it's
Speaker 5: broad because.
Speaker 4: Because there's such a lot of individualism, different situations, different
Speaker 4: personalities and things. But in this broad brush stroke picture
Speaker 4: that I'm going to paint that you can pick holes
Speaker 4: and all over the place. A girl does look to
Speaker 4: her mom as a role model in these things, and
Speaker 4: so she is an ideal person to deliver certain bits
Speaker 4: of information and things because it's lived experience, and so
Speaker 4: she has a great deal of authority, and the girls
Speaker 4: recognize that because she knows what she's talking about. But
Speaker 4: if if she's looking to her mum to find out
Speaker 4: how to be a woman, she's looking to her dad
Speaker 4: to find out what type of woman am I becoming? Now,
Speaker 4: this means that they are intensely sensitive to what people
Speaker 4: think of them as they're coming into puberty, their mates
Speaker 4: the opposite sex, but also dad's what is a dad's
Speaker 4: opinion of their daughters? And they look to your inflection,
Speaker 4: your and look so And this is where dad sometimes
Speaker 4: get it so wrong, because they might be suddenly alarmed
Speaker 4: by the way their daughter is dressing. They might be
Speaker 4: alarmed by the fact that their little girl wants to
Speaker 4: give them a hug, and now she's got bumps and
Speaker 4: they push her away, and because I was thinking, you know,
Speaker 4: because there's such strong taboos in our culture about inappropriate
Speaker 4: touching and things like this, And so they're now maturing,
Speaker 4: daughter comes for a cuddle or something and they sense
Speaker 4: dad being resistant or backing off or pushing them away,
Speaker 4: and suddenly the most important man in their world is
Speaker 4: apparently rejecting them.
Speaker 5: God into my mind of it.
Speaker 4: And dads often change the way they respond to their
Speaker 4: girls as they're entering into puberty because there is just
Speaker 4: that less, be honest, a sexual dynamic there that wasn't
Speaker 4: there before, because you know, they're developing a feminine form,
Speaker 4: and I guess Dad's.
Speaker 5: Been careful and because they want they do have to.
Speaker 4: Be appropriate and everything, but you have to do it
Speaker 4: in a way that doesn't transmit a mixed the wrong
Speaker 4: message that girls could interpret as rejection and judgment and things.
Speaker 4: And the same when they get a bit cross about
Speaker 4: the way that their girls might be dressing or using
Speaker 4: makeup and things like this, and the all over stereotype
Speaker 4: of the dad going you're not going out dressed like
Speaker 4: this and that type of thing.
Speaker 5: I think dads are a bit more. I feel that
Speaker 5: this generation of dads are a bit more like, oh well,
Speaker 5: actually make the argument I think young modern dads are.
Speaker 4: They're probably even the more switched. I don't think actually
Speaker 4: you know why.
Speaker 5: I think because they see, we just have so we're
Speaker 5: bombarded with so much more, so much more in terms
Speaker 5: of social media and imagery that we know what's coming.
Speaker 5: As I oppose, I think that dads who get the
Speaker 5: traditional dad from yeah, you know, just go back thirty
Speaker 5: forty years where and you know, I'm generalizing, but where
Speaker 5: dads went off to work and came home and they yeah,
Speaker 5: they they maybe didn't encounter their friend's peers until they
Speaker 5: met them when they were all going to a party
Speaker 5: at the end of sixteen. So much and these days
Speaker 5: you'd have to be a complete dunce not to know
Speaker 5: a little bit about teenage culture, wouldn't you.
Speaker 4: I think so, in fact, we're not. Teenage culture is
Speaker 4: probably similar in some of those same respects about partying
Speaker 4: and things when even when I a relative dinosaur went
Speaker 4: through and so uh. But that's just something to be
Speaker 4: conscious of you if you're thinking of this again. Broad stroke,
Speaker 4: The girl looks to her mum to see how to
Speaker 4: become a woman. She looks to a dad what type
Speaker 4: of woman am I becoming? Because that's one of their
Speaker 4: prime life goals during puberty is to find out who
Speaker 4: am I? What am I capable of? And especially you know,
Speaker 4: how are people assessing me? They're working out? You know,
Speaker 4: am I attractive? Am I? You know? Do people want
Speaker 4: to hang out with me? Where do I fit in?
Speaker 4: All those sorts of things, and and so a dad's
Speaker 4: opinion is incredibly significant. So the thing to bear in
Speaker 4: mind is always, as you may not you know, exactly
Speaker 4: understand what's going on in your girl's world. But if
Speaker 4: your attitude is always one of affection, acceptance, and you know,
Speaker 4: and warm admiration, you know, I.
Speaker 5: Think my look, we all have different appress things. By
Speaker 5: the way, we're not meaning to overstate things either. It's
Speaker 5: just that it's a natural in terms of overly creepifying
Speaker 5: all that sort of stuff, but it is it's also
Speaker 5: about respecting. The funny thing is I think that the
Speaker 5: girls make those decisions in a way. So for instance,
Speaker 5: there came a time there would have been a time
Speaker 5: when you know, if in the shower, that if your
Speaker 5: kids are in the bath or shower, that when they're
Speaker 5: tiny tots. You don't knock, You just go in because
Speaker 5: you know, it's only been a couple of years since
Speaker 5: you obathing them anyway, And I actually do. I've noticed
Speaker 5: that with one of my daughters. Now I sort of think,
Speaker 5: I think I might need to knock and see what
Speaker 5: she says. And then there is a change. It's like,
Speaker 5: don't come in yet, and I just respect that.
Speaker 4: Look, that's the key word, that our word respect, and
Speaker 4: that's something you can model from early on. People talk
Speaker 4: about the talk psychosexual education starts right from babyhood where
Speaker 4: you where you're modeling a healthy respect for their body
Speaker 4: and your own appropriate language to discuss bodies. They don't
Speaker 4: need to know the full Latin terms. Most families have
Speaker 4: a sort of like a fairly friendly vocabulary to appropriate,
Speaker 4: you know, so that they can talk about it. And
Speaker 4: and yeah, appropriate modesty, I mean it's not it's not
Speaker 4: kind to let your kids go off to kindergarten without
Speaker 4: knowing about appropriate pretenty first century modesty about what you
Speaker 4: can touch, what you look at, you know, how toileting
Speaker 4: is done, and things like that. That's all part of
Speaker 4: the education from early on. But the thing is as
Speaker 4: moving through into puberty, it does change gear and they
Speaker 4: become very self conscious and we need to be And
Speaker 4: again that respect, by the way, mum's opinions of their sons,
Speaker 4: that counts for a lot too. I mean boys sometimes
Speaker 4: and possibly girls too. For a little while in early puberty,
Speaker 4: they're a bit like a building site. Something beautiful is
Speaker 4: being created there, but at the moment it's a bit
Speaker 4: of a mess. You know, the hands and noses and
Speaker 4: ears grow proportionately faster, and you know, they sometimes don't
Speaker 4: move very elegantly. Sometimes their complexion breaks out and you know,
Speaker 4: if you if your son walks into the room and
Speaker 4: he's you know, his lank, greasy hair is hanging down
Speaker 4: over his pimple face and a mum goes, what a
Speaker 4: stud muff And some girl's going to be so lucky
Speaker 4: to get my book. You go, oh, mum and pretends
Speaker 4: he doesn't believe it. But honestly, they probably go.
Speaker 5: Out and get your hair cut.
Speaker 4: It comes to proos actually that I know, friendly admiration
Speaker 4: and respect and just they picked that up and it
Speaker 4: does something to their hearts.
Speaker 5: But with the I mean with physical changes and stuff.
Speaker 5: To me, I think even the solo dads I've known
Speaker 5: have usually enlisted for daughters, have enlisted a trusted older
Speaker 5: female friend to explain it.
Speaker 4: If you're not done not dumb.
Speaker 5: Well, I guess it's just because yeah, I mean that
Speaker 5: seems to me it's like you're just bringing in an
Speaker 5: expert as opposed to daddy knows a bit about it.
Speaker 5: But really, I mean there's a whole lot of stuff
Speaker 5: that dad wouldn't necessarily know about. You'd have to be
Speaker 5: a very cool dad to be explained. You know exactly
Speaker 5: everything about tampons and all that sort of thing, mind you.
Speaker 5: I think that's the thing. Schools actually they're not too bad.
Speaker 5: Schools actually do quite a lot on this stuff. Now,
Speaker 5: don't they know that?
Speaker 4: I mean, it doesn't mean you abdicate your responsibility, but look,
Speaker 4: half the planet has got the experience of this, and
Speaker 4: so there's probably someone in your world that can help
Speaker 4: your girl. It's it's again, it's cruel to allow them
Speaker 4: to be coming into puberty without knowing how to be
Speaker 4: prepared and knowing what happens. You know, But but there's
Speaker 4: so much more. There's aspects of this. You know, a
Speaker 4: lot of teenagers crash in their relationships with each other,
Speaker 4: with themselves, with their parents during the stage. They need
Speaker 4: to know things about how moods change as you get
Speaker 4: into puberty, about how you'll You've always felt anger and
Speaker 4: hilarity and things like that, but as you get into
Speaker 4: puberty it's like someone cranks the volume knob up on
Speaker 4: a lot of these things. And just just knowing that
Speaker 4: sometimes when they feel that those strong emotions they can
Speaker 4: have some insight into that can so help them navigate
Speaker 4: around this.
Speaker 5: Hey, when did you When did you?
Speaker 4: When did I go through puberty? I've never I've been
Speaker 4: avoiding it for the last sixty years. That wasn't your question?
Speaker 3: Was it?
Speaker 4: Now?
Speaker 5: Actually funny on that theme about when do you ever?
Speaker 5: You know that it's funny the notion of when you
Speaker 5: grow up? And I know we've moved away a little
Speaker 5: bit from the puberty chapter, just as an observation for me,
Speaker 5: I don't know if there's really it's when do you
Speaker 5: actually think you actually do transit. I was used to
Speaker 5: think that as you're growing up, you know, when you
Speaker 5: become an adult or when you're such and such. I
Speaker 5: actually never really felt there was any In fact, for
Speaker 5: most many partners of men would probably say, well, they
Speaker 5: never grow up, but I think it's sort of a
Speaker 5: bit of an artificial there's physical changes for sure, and
Speaker 5: you become able to make more decisions. But I don't
Speaker 5: know if you ever really if there's a magic moment
Speaker 5: when okay, probably when you have your own kids.
Speaker 4: I think you have to grow up a bit. That's
Speaker 4: about it. Your parents' funeral that makes you feel very okay. Okay, no, look, no, no, no,
Speaker 4: That I means, look, there's lots of these little threshold moments,
Speaker 4: and you see that's a that's a big thing for boys,
Speaker 4: the idea of a threshold into maturity, and in most cultures,
Speaker 4: through most of history, it's usually being marked by some
Speaker 4: type of ceremony where the men of a community.
Speaker 5: The yard lass.
Speaker 4: You know, well, look, honestly, that's what it's become. That's
Speaker 4: not what it what beds should be where there is
Speaker 4: some idea of test and acceptance, and that is something
Speaker 4: which is hugely missing from our culture, and so it's
Speaker 4: been replaced by you know, seeing how fast a car
Speaker 4: will go, how far you can get with a girl,
Speaker 4: how drunk you can get, or even the oe. They're
Speaker 4: all sort of like these threshold sort of experiences that
Speaker 4: prove to themselves in the world that they are a
Speaker 4: man now, and some of them are quite dumb, dangerous
Speaker 4: and unhealthy, when in fact it could be something better.
Speaker 4: So things that are quite healthy are things like graduations.
Speaker 4: Make a big fuss of them, you know, graduate getting
Speaker 4: a qualification at school or something like that. It used
Speaker 4: to be in my era wearing long pants. I know
Speaker 4: that sounds dumb, but you went from wearing short pants. Look,
Speaker 4: you make it sound like I grew up in tom
Speaker 4: you know Tom Brown school days. But honestly, back then
Speaker 4: you wore short pants when you're a kid. But when
Speaker 4: you walk long pants you.
Speaker 5: Were accept accept in the seventies with whatever those disgraceful
Speaker 5: walk shorts and long long socks and shoes that all
Speaker 5: male teachers seem to wear with a short sleeve shirt
Speaker 5: and a tie.
Speaker 4: What the hell that was? Liberty? Mate? That was that
Speaker 4: was cool, high fashion liberty.
Speaker 5: But actually, no, that's a really interesting question. What are
Speaker 5: the what are those moments where we're actually driving?
Speaker 4: Getting a driving license is a huge thing for a
Speaker 4: lot of people. You know, that marks the difference between
Speaker 4: a kid and an adult.
Speaker 5: Well, that is a making level of responsibility which you
Speaker 5: can have.
Speaker 4: Because there's the aspect of test and then recognition and
Speaker 4: this is coming from the government.
Speaker 5: Well, and not killing and the ability of driving a
Speaker 5: machine where you if you make a bad decision, you
Speaker 5: can kill yourself.
Speaker 4: We're not noticearily talking about even the mechanics of it.
Speaker 4: I'm just talking the fact that you are now a
Speaker 4: licensed driver. We're talking about those things that delineate between
Speaker 4: being a little kid and being a man. And so
Speaker 4: we as a culture need to make more of a
Speaker 4: fuss of that, you know what, moving up a grade
Speaker 4: in sports.
Speaker 5: And so I think you've reminded me of something because
Speaker 5: we they in America they have high school graduations and
Speaker 5: they make a really big deal. It's creeping in here.
Speaker 5: And I must say, when I was younger, I was like,
Speaker 5: what do you want to graduate from high school? It's
Speaker 5: just something that happens because you've changed, because you've got older.
Speaker 5: And yet maybe there is a point to that, because
Speaker 5: I always thought that, you know, okay, graduations when you
Speaker 5: go off and do some other when you finally finish
Speaker 5: the dreaded years of school and you go off and
Speaker 5: do something else, then you mark that success. Although I
Speaker 5: never particularly cared about it because even graduation. I was like, oh,
Speaker 5: I've got my degree. What I want to go and
Speaker 5: stick a silly costume on and go walk parade down
Speaker 5: the street.
Speaker 4: But that was just was a buzz, wasn't it? When
Speaker 4: I didn't do it?
Speaker 5: No, I wasn't.
Speaker 4: I didn't see the point. Oh, okay, is that weird?
Speaker 4: Probably well anyway where I carry it. But there's things
Speaker 4: like that. It seems to be the idea of being
Speaker 4: recognized in your in your leap forward into maturity, which
Speaker 4: seemed to matter. But particularly for boys, okay, And when
Speaker 4: they don't have that, what do they do? It's you know, they,
Speaker 4: as I say, cate their own fun and they can
Speaker 4: be not that. Yeah, they create their own proofs of manhood,
Speaker 4: which is often around cars, drinking, sex, sometimes travel. But
Speaker 4: you know, the imitations of what I think is in
Speaker 4: the the real psychology of a boy becoming a man.
Speaker 5: Actually, Mike's texted are saying that we grow up when
Speaker 5: we when we become aware of our mortality. Yeah, that
Speaker 5: is probably quite well. I think you referred to the
Speaker 5: death of your parents. I think that's no.
Speaker 4: Yeah for me, being aware of your own mortality, but
Speaker 4: that of.
Speaker 5: Those lessons you learn for it through bereavement. For me,
Speaker 5: I think probably it's funny. I mean, the death of
Speaker 5: your parents is a massive thing, but the first serious
Speaker 5: bereavement could be even of a beloved pet or your
Speaker 5: favorite uncle or something like that. And actually for me
Speaker 5: it was it was an uncle who was just he
Speaker 5: was charismatic and funny, and he used to love watching
Speaker 5: all of us play sport, and he was just he
Speaker 5: was just really involved, and one day he had a
Speaker 5: surprise heart attack. Mom and dad just sort of dropped
Speaker 5: it on me. You can't there's only one way of
Speaker 5: telling something. I mean, you can't ease someone into it,
Speaker 5: like something's bad happened. They have a thought about how bad. No,
Speaker 5: it's worse than that. It's yeah, I don't know why.
Speaker 4: I mean, yeah, I know there's lots of things that
Speaker 4: sort of mark off your progress into maturity, that awareness
Speaker 4: of death. You know, kids actually musually aware of it
Speaker 4: before then, and they can worry about it before the end.
Speaker 4: But the sad thing about a puberty often is that
Speaker 4: they think they bullet proof and don't think of it enough.
Speaker 5: Possibly actually happen to take your cause on this. Was
Speaker 5: there a way that you marked your moment of growing
Speaker 5: up when you decided that you weren't just well, you
Speaker 5: weren't a child that you may be had moved on
Speaker 5: to a new stage of life, calling that would love
Speaker 5: to from you. On No. Eight hundred and eighty, teen eighty.
Speaker 5: My guest is John Cown. This is the Parents Squad
Speaker 5: on Timbibridge. Will be back in just a moment. It's
Speaker 5: twenty seven past five. News talks a.
Speaker 3: Body. If you don't want to.
Speaker 2: See week summing, don't show, don't come now.
Speaker 3: Don't duck caring tell me now Walco don't know how,
Speaker 3: don't duck carriddle, tell me now? Aunt you the day.
Speaker 2: Try to me.
Speaker 5: With news talks, it'd be this is the Parents Squad
Speaker 5: with the Tim beverage. John Cown's my guess we're talking
Speaker 5: about actually should we be making more of an effort
Speaker 5: to mark children's our children's progression from being children's to
Speaker 5: being adults.
Speaker 4: What happened to you?
Speaker 5: John? What do you?
Speaker 1: What?
Speaker 5: Did you get any particular mark.
Speaker 4: Of mentioning that when I got ui, my dad gave
Speaker 4: me a creative beer. Now I look, I don't say
Speaker 4: that it was dB was was you know? But I
Speaker 4: felt like such a man now I think he was
Speaker 4: probably casting about But look, there's there's other things that
Speaker 4: that really helped people think like I am on the
Speaker 4: way to becoming an adult. Brash shopping with girls. My
Speaker 4: wife talks very fondly about taking her daughter and she
Speaker 4: took a friend with her as well when they went to, Oh,
Speaker 4: what's what's the big department store in Queen Street that's
Speaker 4: closing down? And not Milmane Choice, but what is it?
Speaker 4: And so I think Cooey And they had a specialist
Speaker 4: there that treated these these you know, young teenage girls
Speaker 4: like so well and all the fit things and everything
Speaker 4: like they had a ball and it made them feel,
Speaker 4: you know, and you know, it's just that aspect of
Speaker 4: you know, of I'm marking the progress towards adulthood in
Speaker 4: a healthy way.
Speaker 5: Actually, I seem to remember getting when I got my
Speaker 5: first suit because I went to law school. Is actually
Speaker 5: that felt very grown up going, I think because I
Speaker 5: went and I couldn't afford my own suits. What a
Speaker 5: sad state of affairs. In fact, by the way, I
Speaker 5: should say, somebody's somebody's text me to sort of tell
Speaker 5: me off that, But they never reminded me. I didn't
Speaker 5: quite short change my parents. But this person said, Tim,
Speaker 5: you not celebrating your graduation as some silly march was
Speaker 5: a bit. It was a bit off hand, wasn't I?
Speaker 5: And this person says, I'm paraphrasing, denied your parents of
Speaker 5: great pride, to be fair, When I got admitted to
Speaker 5: the bar, which is when they had the ceremony with
Speaker 5: the wigs and the gowns and stuff, that was my
Speaker 5: mum made a big deal of that, and that was
Speaker 5: my I got admitted at the bar in my hometown
Speaker 5: and with my friends and my old volleyball coach came along,
Speaker 5: and actually that was quite special.
Speaker 4: Honestly it was possible. So I forgot I wouldn't. I
Speaker 4: bet you didn't think it was silly used. Probably I
Speaker 4: didn't think that was.
Speaker 5: I thought I enjoyed that. I just think I didn't think,
Speaker 5: you know what I think with the university, I didn't
Speaker 5: think I'd really grown up yet. Probably. And then I
Speaker 5: got amid to the bar, and I thought, you're about
Speaker 5: to go and represent people who have been accused of crimes,
Speaker 5: and you are the difference between maybe an outcome much
Speaker 5: could be better or worse for them, depending on what
Speaker 5: sort of job you do.
Speaker 4: I didn't go to my year group's graduation because i'd
Speaker 4: failed well, but I did pick up the socks. I
Speaker 4: did pick up my act and graduate the year after.
Speaker 4: Ye look for the parents. It is significant and lovely,
Speaker 4: and I've been to all my kids graduations and felt
Speaker 4: so proud of them. But you know, but I'd be
Speaker 4: delighted to know people's ideas.
Speaker 5: Idea, Actually, here's another good one, somebody's. In fact, there's
Speaker 5: some really good suggestions on that. In fact, the text
Speaker 5: machine sort of just lit up all of a sudden.
Speaker 5: I reckon it was getting my first job, yes, year
Speaker 5: twelve in school and started a building apprenticeship. And actually
Speaker 5: those are the actually, those are the moments where I
Speaker 5: think we're there's I guess as a society, we don't
Speaker 5: have a particular you know, dance we do, or particular ceremony,
Speaker 5: but we do have our own ways of doing, and
Speaker 5: I think that is that's a big.
Speaker 4: One, marking, you know, beginning your first job. I mentioned
Speaker 4: the idea of the idea of test plus acceptance. He's
Speaker 4: past the test of being able to get the job,
Speaker 4: plus he's being accepted into the fellowship of these older
Speaker 4: people that he's now part of that's a huge thing
Speaker 4: in the Jewish community. They have their bar mitzvahs and
Speaker 4: course and research has showing how they have a significant
Speaker 4: impact on their sense of maturity and self, you know,
Speaker 4: regardless of whatever religious implications it might have, it does
Speaker 4: have a sort of a versus you know, I am
Speaker 4: becoming an adult within church communities confirmations and baptisms and things,
Speaker 4: so that can have that place as.
Speaker 5: Age to people get confirmed. I think I was confirmed.
Speaker 5: I mean, I'm not religious now, but I was confirmed it.
Speaker 5: I think I was twelve years old. But it was
Speaker 5: a boarding school thing where you got to you got
Speaker 5: to have the wine. I'm sorry, but that's that was
Speaker 5: the goal. I was like, I've got that communion wine.
Speaker 4: I'm sure that's what the church and all about. And
Speaker 4: it can be any age, I think once you but
Speaker 4: the idea is that it is a something that you
Speaker 4: do when you were mature enough to own your own
Speaker 4: beliefs and things. So that's that can be one of
Speaker 4: these I am becoming an adult thing. So it can
Speaker 4: be very significant for some people. Some people get into it,
Speaker 4: you know, but yeah, what else.
Speaker 5: Well, actually, one person's just talked about well, the changes
Speaker 5: since I joined the services at seventeen, I couldn't imagine
Speaker 5: how quickly you change, but says I wouldn't do it again,
Speaker 5: I wouldn't do it at seventeen today. Well, I guess, yeah,
Speaker 5: it's a friend of mine joined the army straight out
Speaker 5: of straight out of school. Well, look, I don't think
Speaker 5: that's but that's just that's getting a job.
Speaker 4: It's like that, but it's also Yeah, the camaraderie of
Speaker 4: adults is unfortunately some of these But one of the
Speaker 4: things that has changed is that in most I mentioned
Speaker 4: the term of most cultures, of most ages, a person
Speaker 4: reaching adolescence would be then placed into the community of adults.
Speaker 4: Now we keep them the in a community of same
Speaker 4: aged peers right through high school then right into university,
Speaker 4: and so they don't have the opportunity, apart from interacting
Speaker 4: with parents, relatives and teachers, of actually interacting on a
Speaker 4: regular basis with older people. How's that again, Well, they're
Speaker 4: staying with their same aged friends. Well, you know, when
Speaker 4: most seven formers that in most ages would have been
Speaker 4: considered an adult out working with the men and women
Speaker 4: would are now still stuck with a bunch of other
Speaker 4: seventeen and eighteen year olds, and so their culture stays
Speaker 4: very much locked into that.
Speaker 5: Actually, I think one of the ones we do have
Speaker 5: in New Zealand is the somebody's reminded me inadvert well
Speaker 5: not invertal. It's related that back in the days, in
Speaker 5: the fifties you had debutante balls, balls where you left
Speaker 5: school and you were presented to the world. But of
Speaker 5: course the school the school ball is a big one.
Speaker 4: Because they're getting dressed up as adults. Yep, you know
Speaker 4: you're not going along in you.
Speaker 5: In fact, that New Zealand's most generic sort of I'm
Speaker 5: not saying right a passage, but it.
Speaker 4: Is well right the passages the right way. It's a
Speaker 4: right of you know, acknowledgment of and making a fuss
Speaker 4: of them and getting the photos taken and driving them
Speaker 4: there in a flash car. And you know.
Speaker 5: I'll tell you what. It's a hell of a lot
Speaker 5: more involved these days compared to the mine. It was
Speaker 5: just like you found something that resembled a suit in
Speaker 5: a way, you went, it's the ball. Then there's the
Speaker 5: aft ball, and.
Speaker 4: Oh my goodness, yeah yeah, so yeah, we shouldn't allow
Speaker 4: these things to get hijacked by things that cheap in it,
Speaker 4: you know, And I think sometimes the h well, you.
Speaker 5: Know, the booze thing.
Speaker 4: These girls especially go to such a lot of expensive
Speaker 4: their gowns and hairdoos and things like this, and then
Speaker 4: it just turns into another high school party afterwards. But
Speaker 4: the idea of having a flash ball, you know, which
Speaker 4: is very elegant.
Speaker 5: Do you remember your school ball?
Speaker 4: I didn't go.
Speaker 5: I was too scared, too scared what to ask someone
Speaker 5: for a date. I think I already had.
Speaker 4: Them, Like you're delving into my into my dark closet
Speaker 4: of adolescent failure here. No, I went off to the
Speaker 4: Photophotography Club Prizegiving that night. I want to try I
Speaker 4: want to try pod are actually look, I was desperately
Speaker 4: shy as an adolescent, and.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, it's now I think of it. I can't
Speaker 5: think of anything beyond the school board because so, I mean,
Speaker 5: of course, when you get the twenty first birthday party
Speaker 5: is the other one that somebody suggested, and I think
Speaker 5: the twenty first, well timenty first is still a thing.
Speaker 5: But to me, it feels like the right of passage
Speaker 5: does happen abit it.
Speaker 4: I think that that one has been cheapened a little
Speaker 4: bit too, and that it used to be something that
Speaker 4: the family would throw for you, and you know, the
Speaker 4: twenty first and maybe all the uncles and aunts and
Speaker 4: everything like that there and you'd be sort of like
Speaker 4: admitted into adulthood with the key of a door and everything.
Speaker 4: Now it's just another big party for their mates that
Speaker 4: the parents pay for. And so I think if you
Speaker 4: have got a twenty first coming up in your family,
Speaker 4: make sure that there is that acknowledgment from the older
Speaker 4: ones there. And there are a few speeches and things,
Speaker 4: because our young people are helped by these passages, these
Speaker 4: rights of passage.
Speaker 5: Actually, somebody is recalling that back going back to our
Speaker 5: puberty chat. One of the text has said things were
Speaker 5: so hidden in the fifties and that when I was ten,
Speaker 5: my mother explained what might happen. And one of my
Speaker 5: it's just quite funny, one of my out of responses
Speaker 5: was does daddy know, like, well, you know, I mean
Speaker 5: in terms of does daddy know what what goes on?
Speaker 4: Yeah, which I think is quite funny.
Speaker 5: Hey john Son to so nice to with you chat. Hey,
Speaker 5: by the way, so you've got I'm gonna what time
Speaker 5: seven thirty seven thirty for Real Life.
Speaker 4: And my guest tomorrow is movie producer Kevin Denham. He's
Speaker 4: had a strange change of career after a very long
Speaker 4: successful role as a movie producer. He's becoming a film
Speaker 4: chaplain and that he is working with the crews and
Speaker 4: producers and things, helping them with life. It's interesting chaplain.
Speaker 5: Yeah is that well, we're going to find out if
Speaker 5: you's tune in of course for Real life and does
Speaker 5: is this a new thing that? Yeah?
Speaker 4: I think so. I mean, look with media chaplains is
Speaker 4: about eight chaplains working within radio things. People are surprised
Speaker 4: that there's these people doing these things. But he's working
Speaker 4: within New Zealand's quite big movie and film industry. It
Speaker 4: sounds fascinating. Yeah, so interested if I do. I don't
Speaker 4: know much about it at all, will you excellent?
Speaker 5: Well, well it's something for you to look forward to. Then, John,
Speaker 5: I am hey, and hey, thanks so much, and yes,
Speaker 5: don't forget to tune into Real Life tomorrow at seven
Speaker 5: thirty with John Cown and we'll be back to rap sport,
Speaker 5: well not really wrap sport. We're looking forward to the
Speaker 5: All Black Match. Will be joined by Jason Pine shortly,
Speaker 5: it's nineteen minutes to six News Talk seed bo.
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