WEBVTT - Rugby Direct - Episode 192 0:00:09.093 --> 0:00:12.693 You're listening to a podcast from News Talks EDB. Follow 0:00:12.773 --> 0:00:16.173 this and our wide range of podcast now on iHeartRadio. 0:00:19.253 --> 0:00:20.893 Straight down the Middle of. 0:00:20.933 --> 0:00:25.293 Drum, Dickney scud By, Try these. 0:00:25.213 --> 0:00:32.813 Pe get inside the game from every angle. It's Rugby 0:00:32.853 --> 0:00:36.453 Direct with Elliot Smith and Liam Napier, powered by News 0:00:36.533 --> 0:00:37.053 Talks EDB. 0:00:37.333 --> 0:00:40.693 Welcome into Rugby Direct power by Excess Solutions, celebrating twenty 0:00:40.813 --> 0:00:44.773 five years in business. Ellie get Smith with me Liam 0:00:44.853 --> 0:00:48.373 Napier in London again. As we come down to the 0:00:48.413 --> 0:00:52.533 weekends test match All Blacks and England. The teams are outs. 0:00:52.533 --> 0:00:56.373 England name theirs on Tuesday local time. The All Blacks 0:00:56.533 --> 0:01:00.773 early get today Thursday morning local time. So Liam, the 0:01:00.773 --> 0:01:03.133 teams are out and let's get into the All Blacks 0:01:03.333 --> 0:01:06.893 first and foremost couple of surprises there. I know we 0:01:06.933 --> 0:01:08.773 talked the other day about which way they might go 0:01:08.813 --> 0:01:11.613 with the back line. They've gone the way we probably suspected, haven't. 0:01:11.613 --> 0:01:14.653 They were Les defying Anuku on to the left wing. 0:01:14.693 --> 0:01:19.773 Billy Procter in at center with Caler Clarke obviously out injured. 0:01:19.773 --> 0:01:23.253 Simon Parker comes back into the team at blindside. Scott 0:01:23.293 --> 0:01:25.933 Barrett's back as captain obviously and in the second row 0:01:26.493 --> 0:01:30.693 as well. So three changes to the run on side 0:01:31.213 --> 0:01:34.453 per should we start with that back line change? It 0:01:34.533 --> 0:01:37.933 felt like probably the way they're going to go. Not 0:01:38.013 --> 0:01:40.973 really too many other options that seemed that likely. So 0:01:41.013 --> 0:01:41.733 what do you make of it? 0:01:42.333 --> 0:01:42.933 Yeah, that's right. 0:01:42.973 --> 0:01:46.253 I think we predicted they would go that way. Ricohani 0:01:46.413 --> 0:01:51.373 was another option. Yeah, they did have options of shifting 0:01:51.373 --> 0:01:54.133 the back three around a wee bit, but they clearly 0:01:54.173 --> 0:01:57.613 want to keep McKenzie in that impact role that he's 0:01:57.613 --> 0:02:01.493 performed so well in recent weeks, and they finished the 0:02:01.573 --> 0:02:05.413 Test last week against Scotland largely with that back line, 0:02:05.413 --> 0:02:09.173 with Billy Procter at center alongside Quinti and Lester find 0:02:09.213 --> 0:02:11.813 a knokle on the wing and look, I think you 0:02:11.813 --> 0:02:14.453 can get Lester involved from the wing. And I wasn't 0:02:14.493 --> 0:02:18.253 overly impressive him at center, but he saw an incredibly 0:02:18.333 --> 0:02:21.133 damaging ball carrier. I do have concerns on the whole 0:02:21.173 --> 0:02:22.813 for the back three and the way they're going to 0:02:22.853 --> 0:02:24.333 be peppered with the high ball, but I don't think 0:02:24.373 --> 0:02:26.533 it really mattered who the All Blacks picked there. That 0:02:26.653 --> 0:02:29.853 was always going to be an area of potential vulnerability 0:02:30.773 --> 0:02:32.773 and Anton Lenna Brown coming onto the bench a wee 0:02:32.813 --> 0:02:34.573 bit of a surprise for me. I probably would have 0:02:34.653 --> 0:02:38.093 picked Rico. I think he's a bigger body. But Scot 0:02:38.173 --> 0:02:42.533 Robinson's justification was that Leona Brown covers second and center. 0:02:42.573 --> 0:02:46.373 But it really does speak to Rico's standing in this 0:02:46.453 --> 0:02:48.733 team and how far back he's gone in such a 0:02:48.733 --> 0:02:49.533 short space at time. 0:02:49.613 --> 0:02:51.613 It does well. Anton Lenna Brown, he said, could cover 0:02:51.693 --> 0:02:55.453 wing as well, so can Rico, Youani, Rico has played 0:02:55.453 --> 0:02:59.693 twelve at super level a little bit, going back a 0:02:59.773 --> 0:03:03.173 couple of years at least now, But it does speak 0:03:03.173 --> 0:03:05.693 to volumes as how he's fallen in this team, and 0:03:05.733 --> 0:03:08.653 it feels like he maybe just needs to get to 0:03:08.733 --> 0:03:12.253 Leinster and we can look and just try and re 0:03:12.653 --> 0:03:15.173 not revive as Korega, but just a bit of a 0:03:15.213 --> 0:03:17.373 sea change might be the best thing for him. He's 0:03:18.453 --> 0:03:20.413 was center for a couple of seasons in this All 0:03:20.453 --> 0:03:23.373 Blacks team, then moved to the left wing. Didn't really 0:03:23.453 --> 0:03:26.453 work for him this year. Either he goes to Leinster 0:03:26.533 --> 0:03:29.133 and it's the remaking of him, or he goes to 0:03:29.213 --> 0:03:33.453 Linston goes okay, yeah, maybe I am no longer likely 0:03:33.533 --> 0:03:35.613 to be a Test player and maybe he just goes 0:03:35.653 --> 0:03:37.573 to Japan and maybe we don't see him. I no, no, no. 0:03:37.853 --> 0:03:39.733 He's contracted with New zealandery for a wee while, but 0:03:39.733 --> 0:03:42.933 it feels like he'll probably play next week against Wales. 0:03:43.013 --> 0:03:43.933 Yeah, I think he will. 0:03:43.973 --> 0:03:46.293 But there's also the question of how much you actually 0:03:46.373 --> 0:03:49.013 lose a lot from that test given where Wales are 0:03:49.053 --> 0:03:52.893 at they cop fifty from Argentina last week. I think 0:03:52.893 --> 0:03:56.253 they've lost eighteen their last nineteen something like that, very 0:03:56.333 --> 0:03:59.653 much in rebuild modes. So yeah, Rico's had a very 0:03:59.933 --> 0:04:03.533 interesting juncture in his career and like you say, going 0:04:03.653 --> 0:04:08.173 Leinster could help him. I think it will evolve his game, 0:04:08.413 --> 0:04:11.773 will open his eyes to a different style of footy. 0:04:12.333 --> 0:04:15.373 Interesting to see where he plays first and foremost and 0:04:15.373 --> 0:04:18.213 how he handles being out of his comfort zone. That 0:04:18.293 --> 0:04:20.573 could bring out the best in him. I think getting 0:04:20.613 --> 0:04:25.093 out of the Blues and an environment he knows very well, 0:04:25.933 --> 0:04:28.653 it will be a good challenge. And yeah, hopefully that 0:04:28.773 --> 0:04:33.213 sparks something within him, because he does need to be 0:04:33.373 --> 0:04:37.973 revived because he has gone back quickly, isn't. 0:04:37.813 --> 0:04:40.093 He he has I'll be honest, I don't quite get 0:04:40.133 --> 0:04:42.693 the anti len It Brown selection on the bench. I 0:04:42.733 --> 0:04:44.613 get the justification. I can accept that. 0:04:44.773 --> 0:04:48.453 But last year, in November this test, Lennard Brown came 0:04:48.493 --> 0:04:49.893 off the bench and got a yellow cart. 0:04:50.613 --> 0:04:54.213 He got a yellow cut in his memory service as well. 0:04:54.293 --> 0:04:57.773 It just feels, yeah, whether he can't get into the 0:04:57.773 --> 0:04:59.453 pace of a game or whatever it is when you 0:04:59.493 --> 0:05:01.453 come off the bench that late, I'm not sure. Trying 0:05:01.493 --> 0:05:06.093 to Yeah, perhaps, but to me he doesn't suggest impact. 0:05:06.293 --> 0:05:09.213 He's a very solid play, great link play, great distributor. 0:05:09.453 --> 0:05:12.213 I just don't see the impact. And I'm not saying, 0:05:12.293 --> 0:05:14.533 you remember from sixteen to twenty three has to be 0:05:15.213 --> 0:05:18.173 gung ho, balls to the wall impact sort of player. 0:05:18.933 --> 0:05:21.573 But I think you do need some of that, and 0:05:21.573 --> 0:05:24.253 I'm not sure that Leonard Brown is going to be 0:05:24.293 --> 0:05:25.533 a game changer. 0:05:25.213 --> 0:05:26.813 Off the bench. No, I agree. 0:05:27.293 --> 0:05:29.733 And there's also a massive test for Billy Proctor though, 0:05:29.773 --> 0:05:34.053 isn't it. He's had I think seven this year he was. 0:05:34.453 --> 0:05:37.093 Robertson fully backed him on the basis that he had 0:05:37.093 --> 0:05:39.733 been the forum center in Super Rugby for at least 0:05:39.773 --> 0:05:44.493 two years. Hasn't made that transition, hasn't stepped up as hope, 0:05:44.493 --> 0:05:48.573 particularly from an attacking perspective. How do you think he's 0:05:48.573 --> 0:05:49.493 going to go this weekend. 0:05:50.013 --> 0:05:50.413 Yeah. 0:05:50.453 --> 0:05:52.933 I think this again is a big testa Billy Procter 0:05:53.613 --> 0:05:57.093 because we haven't seen the best of him at Test 0:05:57.173 --> 0:05:59.133 level compared to what we know he's capable of at 0:05:59.173 --> 0:06:02.373 Super rugby level, where he can find time in space, 0:06:02.453 --> 0:06:05.053 he's a great stepper with the ball, he can get 0:06:05.053 --> 0:06:07.933 around plays, he can run through. You just team seems 0:06:07.973 --> 0:06:10.973 hit the right option at super rugby level. I think 0:06:10.973 --> 0:06:15.773 at Test level, time and space is so restricted and 0:06:16.133 --> 0:06:19.413 your opportunities come few and far between, and both silky 0:06:19.493 --> 0:06:22.853 skills and that space you might be afforded at Super 0:06:22.893 --> 0:06:25.613 rugby level, you just don't get at Test rugby level. 0:06:25.613 --> 0:06:27.773 And so I think that's real where the question is. 0:06:27.813 --> 0:06:30.053 And it kind of felt like I was giving a 0:06:30.093 --> 0:06:31.773 bit of credit the Shaft for sticking with them, but 0:06:31.813 --> 0:06:33.773 it just wasn't coming from the All Blacks that they 0:06:33.853 --> 0:06:35.493 kept sticking with them, going at some point it's going 0:06:35.533 --> 0:06:36.733 to click. At some point it's going to click, and 0:06:36.773 --> 0:06:38.613 then they had to make a call and it wasn't clicking. 0:06:39.453 --> 0:06:42.173 I wonder whether it's a size thing with Billy because 0:06:42.333 --> 0:06:46.253 Test rugby I think, I don't know, this is just 0:06:46.293 --> 0:06:49.653 my assumption, but players a bigger, right yep, Bigger, faster, stronger, 0:06:49.893 --> 0:06:51.893 and you mentioned the time in space, but also just 0:06:51.893 --> 0:06:55.613 the physical contact. So I wonder whether that's why he 0:06:55.733 --> 0:06:58.133 struggled from an attacking perspective, because you look at the 0:06:58.133 --> 0:07:00.253 other options that have played well for the All Blacks 0:07:00.253 --> 0:07:06.253 in the midfield. Quintuplier is a bigger physical presence, didn't 0:07:06.253 --> 0:07:08.653 have that background as a center, but came out and 0:07:09.293 --> 0:07:11.613 smashed it in his first start there. 0:07:11.453 --> 0:07:12.373 Against the Wallabies. 0:07:12.893 --> 0:07:17.093 Lester when he carries the ball is just hugely destructive. 0:07:17.853 --> 0:07:22.453 Rico hasn't shown the best of himself, probably not even 0:07:22.533 --> 0:07:25.133 viewed as a center for the All Blacks now, but 0:07:25.213 --> 0:07:29.333 another bigger body. So yeah, I do wonder whether Billy 0:07:29.373 --> 0:07:32.053 has struggled just with the difference of Super Raby to 0:07:32.093 --> 0:07:33.893 test Ray from a size perspective. 0:07:33.573 --> 0:07:35.733 Yeah, I think you could probably make that argument with Duple. 0:07:36.333 --> 0:07:38.293 He's not in the match Day twenty three this week, 0:07:38.373 --> 0:07:41.453 but you know he was getting turnovers for fun at 0:07:42.333 --> 0:07:45.253 Super Ragby level and if Romerson no doubt that he 0:07:45.253 --> 0:07:47.493 should be in this All Black squad, but he probably 0:07:47.573 --> 0:07:52.253 lacks the size and test match breakdowns operate a little 0:07:52.253 --> 0:07:54.693 bit different. The body's being cleared a little bit bigger. 0:07:54.733 --> 0:07:58.773 Those opportunities to get turnovers a few and far between. 0:07:58.773 --> 0:08:00.693 You got to be on the ball that fraction quicker 0:08:00.733 --> 0:08:02.453 than you have to be at super rugby level. So 0:08:02.933 --> 0:08:05.813 hasn't felt like he's maybe made that adjustment. And again 0:08:05.853 --> 0:08:06.693 it might be a size thing. 0:08:07.253 --> 0:08:10.253 Yeah, what about the other change in the forward pack? 0:08:10.333 --> 0:08:16.493 Sumon Parker he was arrested last week. Yeah, I personally 0:08:16.533 --> 0:08:19.093 felt that maybe he'd come back on the bench this week. 0:08:19.493 --> 0:08:23.373 I probably would have started Stiti. Think about what he 0:08:23.413 --> 0:08:28.013 did last November and that breakout performance at Twickenham cut 0:08:28.053 --> 0:08:32.533 England to shreds offloaded quick feet at the line. I 0:08:32.573 --> 0:08:35.973 can understand why they pick Parker. Bigger body, he'll add 0:08:36.013 --> 0:08:39.213 something to the set piece, more grunt to the scrum, 0:08:39.413 --> 0:08:42.373 particularly of Scott Barrett coming back. He's more of a 0:08:42.413 --> 0:08:47.533 line out presence as well, and he's strong, work great 0:08:47.573 --> 0:08:49.013 on the defensive side of the ball. For me, he 0:08:49.013 --> 0:08:51.693 doesn't offer a lot with ball in hand. And then 0:08:51.693 --> 0:08:54.453 you've got Setti coming off the bench. But I just 0:08:54.493 --> 0:08:59.693 feel a little bit like it's a team that's picked 0:08:59.893 --> 0:09:02.093 not to play like England, but to counter their strengths 0:09:02.133 --> 0:09:04.493 rather than to play to the All Black strengths, which 0:09:04.533 --> 0:09:07.253 is how I would view Citti starting. 0:09:07.413 --> 0:09:09.653 Yeah, I can see that point of view. I thought 0:09:10.493 --> 0:09:12.253 there was a good chance that Parker came back in 0:09:12.373 --> 0:09:14.293 this week. I think I said on the earlier podcast 0:09:14.333 --> 0:09:17.413 in the week that you could put him in there 0:09:17.453 --> 0:09:20.133 and then have Stdi going in for the last thirty 0:09:20.173 --> 0:09:23.253 and a big advocate of finding that right mix for 0:09:23.253 --> 0:09:25.173 the bench, because I think the last thirty minutes is 0:09:25.213 --> 0:09:27.573 just as valuable, if not more now in test rugby 0:09:27.573 --> 0:09:30.573 than the first save fifty. And it feels like the 0:09:30.613 --> 0:09:33.053 All Blacks are still searching for that right option at 0:09:33.053 --> 0:09:35.613 blind Side. It may be satiti over time, but it 0:09:35.653 --> 0:09:38.013 also feels that they don't have the bench option that 0:09:38.093 --> 0:09:40.773 they want at the moment. And whether that's because top 0:09:40.813 --> 0:09:42.973 of I is out injured or whatever it might be, 0:09:43.013 --> 0:09:45.653 but it feels like, Okay, they've made a decision to go, 0:09:46.053 --> 0:09:49.133 we don't have the bench option that we would like 0:09:49.213 --> 0:09:51.853 to back up Wallace. So therefore Wallace is going to 0:09:51.853 --> 0:09:53.893 go to the bench and we'll go with Simon Parker, 0:09:53.893 --> 0:09:56.253 who personally I don't think is a bench option. I 0:09:56.293 --> 0:09:58.653 don't think he adds similar to Antonine at Brownie either, 0:09:58.693 --> 0:10:01.373 starts and the run on team or he's not playing 0:10:01.413 --> 0:10:04.333 in the twenty three, so they've gone with that. Wouldn't 0:10:04.333 --> 0:10:06.173 surprise me to see them make a little bit of 0:10:06.213 --> 0:10:10.293 a tweak quite early in the second spell, potentially around 0:10:10.373 --> 0:10:13.173 that because we haven't talked about it, but that the 0:10:13.173 --> 0:10:15.733 stats for the All Blacks quite bad and we had 0:10:15.773 --> 0:10:18.613 great evidence of that last week at Murrayfield from minutes 0:10:18.653 --> 0:10:21.253 forty to sixty, where the game got away from them 0:10:21.293 --> 0:10:24.173 almost and it's been a continuing factor this year. So 0:10:24.653 --> 0:10:26.693 they need to shore up that space at some point. 0:10:26.733 --> 0:10:29.293 So I wonder whether Cititi will get his bought and 0:10:29.333 --> 0:10:32.453 pass very very early in the second spell and basically 0:10:32.533 --> 0:10:35.493 have for almost a full half of license to do 0:10:35.533 --> 0:10:36.893 what you said and do what he did. It took 0:10:36.973 --> 0:10:37.813 them last year. 0:10:38.453 --> 0:10:40.093 The Oblecks to be well aware, weren't they of their 0:10:40.093 --> 0:10:43.093 third quarter struggles Last year? It was their final quarters 0:10:43.133 --> 0:10:45.933 and that's where they've been really good in the last 0:10:45.973 --> 0:10:49.453 two weeks in particular, and also against the Wallabies in 0:10:49.453 --> 0:10:53.093 Perth they finished strongly. So you could argue they have 0:10:53.933 --> 0:10:59.253 amended or potentially fixed solved their final quarter struggles, but 0:10:59.573 --> 0:11:03.573 that's transferred to that period after halftime which potentially shines 0:11:03.613 --> 0:11:06.053 a spotlight on what's happening at halftime, what's been said, 0:11:06.693 --> 0:11:09.333 the mentality coming out of the sheds, there's a number 0:11:09.333 --> 0:11:14.053 of questions around that. And yeah, the benches in modern 0:11:14.133 --> 0:11:17.133 rugby are incredibly important, aren't they. And we've seen that 0:11:17.213 --> 0:11:20.053 not only with the All Blacks tactics, but with England's 0:11:20.333 --> 0:11:22.653 They've got six British and Irish Lions on their bench 0:11:22.853 --> 0:11:26.733 in the six to two split there, and that clearly 0:11:26.813 --> 0:11:31.093 speaks to the way they have lost the last three 0:11:31.173 --> 0:11:32.493 games to the All Blacks. 0:11:32.773 --> 0:11:37.413 Yeah, exactly right. You look back to twenty twenty two, 0:11:37.533 --> 0:11:40.293 twenty five six, Yeah, they managed actually come back off that. 0:11:40.333 --> 0:11:42.373 It wasn't you know it was. It was a blow, 0:11:42.413 --> 0:11:45.653 but it was largely on their bench. They got that 0:11:45.693 --> 0:11:49.853 twenty minutes right. Never since then twenty twenty three Dunedin 0:11:50.053 --> 0:11:53.973 and then Auckland last year, then London last year, it 0:11:53.973 --> 0:11:56.453 has been that twenty minutes period where the game has 0:11:56.493 --> 0:11:58.133 got away from the All Blacks have been able to 0:11:58.173 --> 0:12:00.493 win women last year they were All Blacks at twicken 0:12:00.573 --> 0:12:03.693 them We're down twenty two fourteen, came back to roll 0:12:03.733 --> 0:12:06.373 over the top of England in the end and just 0:12:06.413 --> 0:12:10.013 looking at that bench six two split average of forty 0:12:10.053 --> 0:12:13.693 caps per player on the bench and got the Pom score, 0:12:13.733 --> 0:12:17.533 the Pom squad as it's been dubbed, which is great. 0:12:17.773 --> 0:12:20.733 Luke Carwin, Dicky fifty one caps, Alice Kinge seventy three, 0:12:20.853 --> 0:12:23.013 Will Stewart fifty one. That's just the front row and 0:12:23.013 --> 0:12:25.773 then cunning him South has played nearly twenty. Tom Curry's 0:12:25.773 --> 0:12:29.213 played sixty three. Pollocks the all one out with three, 0:12:29.293 --> 0:12:31.813 Ben Spencer with twelve. Marcus Smith has somehow I got 0:12:31.853 --> 0:12:34.933 forty five caps already in his Test career. But it's 0:12:34.973 --> 0:12:38.373 a very experienced bench and they believe that if they're 0:12:38.413 --> 0:12:41.013 in the game with twenty five to go, that these 0:12:41.053 --> 0:12:42.333 are the men that are going to close it out 0:12:42.333 --> 0:12:42.613 for them. 0:12:42.813 --> 0:12:46.413 Yeah, you could argue big time that Alice Skinge, Tom Curry, 0:12:46.533 --> 0:12:52.213 they've been starters largely throughout their Test careers. Henry Pollock's 0:12:52.373 --> 0:12:54.653 been you know what is he twenty years old, the 0:12:55.133 --> 0:13:01.733 absolute revelation for English rugby, big character, impressed during the 0:13:01.773 --> 0:13:05.253 lines tour, came off the bench last week and scored 0:13:05.293 --> 0:13:08.813 a try. So he's the epitome of a of an 0:13:08.853 --> 0:13:11.413 impact player and Marcus Smith real live where if he 0:13:11.453 --> 0:13:15.373 gets the license. Because the starting English team there's certainly 0:13:15.373 --> 0:13:17.933 no ambiguity a bit about how they're going to play. 0:13:17.973 --> 0:13:22.853 They've reinstated George Ford at ten and Freddie Stewart at 0:13:23.453 --> 0:13:26.693 fullback and with Alex Mitchel a half back, they will 0:13:26.733 --> 0:13:29.853 hoist to the heavens. I think they kept in four 0:13:29.893 --> 0:13:33.093 tests this year, they've kept for over one thousand meters, 0:13:33.613 --> 0:13:37.733 so you don't have to be Einstein to work out 0:13:37.733 --> 0:13:38.613 how they're going to approach this. 0:13:38.893 --> 0:13:40.453 Actually going to have a fair bit of catching to 0:13:40.453 --> 0:13:43.453 do on Saturday and that's gonna be a real acid 0:13:43.493 --> 0:13:47.053 test of what they can do that back three because 0:13:47.773 --> 0:13:50.613 Will Jordan hasn't been the safest under the high ball, 0:13:51.133 --> 0:13:55.293 Leroy Carter, the little man on the wing, lestifying Anoku 0:13:55.533 --> 0:13:57.893 hasn't played a lot of wing in recent times as well. 0:13:58.173 --> 0:14:00.613 Feels like an area of vulnerability for the All Blacks 0:14:00.973 --> 0:14:03.933 because we're seeing against Scotland they haven't been able to 0:14:03.933 --> 0:14:06.773 get it right for whatever reason. You know, it's been 0:14:07.293 --> 0:14:10.773 a huge gaping problem in this All Blacks team and 0:14:10.973 --> 0:14:12.293 again they haven't been able to fix it. 0:14:13.213 --> 0:14:16.213 Let's talk about the few records because they didn't touch 0:14:16.253 --> 0:14:20.093 it on the earlier pod this week. England haven't beaten 0:14:20.253 --> 0:14:23.773 the All Blacks anywhere for five years. Since the twenty 0:14:23.973 --> 0:14:28.373 nineteen World Cup semi final. The All Blacks haven't lost 0:14:28.413 --> 0:14:31.133 at Twickenham. They're unbeaten them five matches. They're going back 0:14:31.173 --> 0:14:36.053 to twenty twelve. Steve Borthwick in his three year tenure 0:14:36.173 --> 0:14:39.453 hasn't been the All Blacks, hasn't been the spring box. 0:14:41.613 --> 0:14:44.293 What do you put the All Blacks recent dominance of 0:14:44.333 --> 0:14:46.733 England down to, Because it hasn't been a golden period 0:14:46.813 --> 0:14:47.453 for All Black reps. 0:14:47.533 --> 0:14:50.413 No, it hasn't. I think for an English team. They 0:14:50.533 --> 0:14:54.653 are inconsistent with their selections and perhaps similar to the 0:14:54.693 --> 0:14:57.653 All Blacks is that they have struggled to build an 0:14:57.693 --> 0:14:59.893 identity about themselves in a way they want to play, 0:14:59.973 --> 0:15:02.413 and the All Blacks have just been able to find 0:15:02.413 --> 0:15:05.133 a moment or two to be the better of them. 0:15:05.173 --> 0:15:08.173 And you compare the two benches this year to what 0:15:08.373 --> 0:15:11.333 England rolled out last year, and they've obviously stacked the 0:15:11.333 --> 0:15:13.733 bench this time around, but it's strong a bench and 0:15:13.773 --> 0:15:15.773 they rolled out last year when things did fall away 0:15:15.773 --> 0:15:19.173 for them in the last week. While you know that 0:15:19.253 --> 0:15:22.493 they have found some key players and positions Fay were Boso, 0:15:23.053 --> 0:15:26.413 Henry Pollock coming through as well. So the All Blacks 0:15:26.413 --> 0:15:29.573 haven't certainly dominated England by any stretch of the imagination, 0:15:29.653 --> 0:15:32.213 but they've just been able to find a key moment 0:15:32.213 --> 0:15:36.453 here there, hang really tough in games and come out 0:15:36.493 --> 0:15:37.853 on the right side of the LEGI you think that's 0:15:37.853 --> 0:15:40.373 twenty twenty two when the All Blacks lead twenty five 0:15:40.413 --> 0:15:44.133 to six against England with nine ten minutes to play 0:15:44.133 --> 0:15:47.293 and then likes of Fretty Steward managed to score a 0:15:47.333 --> 0:15:49.813 couple of tries, got to twenty five All probably would 0:15:49.813 --> 0:15:51.013 have won it if the game had gone on for 0:15:51.013 --> 0:15:54.093 two or three more minutes. That was as good as 0:15:54.093 --> 0:15:58.293 they've looked against the All Blacks. But then things have 0:15:58.413 --> 0:16:03.613 changed again. So it's a really intriguing there's no right 0:16:03.693 --> 0:16:05.493 art wrong answer, But the best that they've looked at 0:16:05.773 --> 0:16:07.533 is probably when Eddie Jones was coaching them back into 0:16:07.533 --> 0:16:08.973 twenty twenty two Seal Blacks. 0:16:09.413 --> 0:16:10.493 Yeah, I think it's you're right. 0:16:10.653 --> 0:16:13.893 The identity thing is big for England's You look at 0:16:13.933 --> 0:16:18.333 teams like Northampton who play quite attacking brand of rugby, 0:16:18.373 --> 0:16:21.893 brilliant to watch, but that's not really England's DNA or 0:16:21.933 --> 0:16:25.093 their identity, and they do have some attacking weapons. But 0:16:26.053 --> 0:16:29.253 Borthwick is a lot more conservative generally as a coach, 0:16:29.413 --> 0:16:33.653 and I think it's taken him time to develop the 0:16:33.653 --> 0:16:35.933 style of rugby he wants to play. You see that 0:16:36.013 --> 0:16:38.373 coming through with the bench there about. That's a clear 0:16:38.413 --> 0:16:42.213 tactic about where he's going with this team. George Ford 0:16:42.613 --> 0:16:45.373 is his ten for now. Last year it was Marcus Smith, 0:16:45.493 --> 0:16:48.653 so I think he's settled on a few things, a 0:16:48.693 --> 0:16:50.573 lot more sure in his mind how he wants to play, 0:16:50.613 --> 0:16:55.133 who his men are. So this is the best England 0:16:55.213 --> 0:16:57.013 have been under Bothwick. I don't think there's any doubt 0:16:57.053 --> 0:16:58.853 about that. The one nine in a row, that record 0:16:58.973 --> 0:17:02.573 is not amazing when you dive into it. But there 0:17:02.613 --> 0:17:05.093 is a real confidence building within this English team and 0:17:05.133 --> 0:17:09.373 it's an interesting sphere that in fronts this game because 0:17:09.373 --> 0:17:12.253 this match will define both these team seasons. They're both 0:17:12.293 --> 0:17:16.773 delicately poised. They're both looking for a significant scalp to 0:17:17.093 --> 0:17:22.773 justify their improvements, their progress and if the All Black 0:17:22.813 --> 0:17:25.373 swin pretty much bank the Grand Slam for the first 0:17:25.373 --> 0:17:29.053 time in fifteen years, and people will say, yep, okay, Raiser, 0:17:30.013 --> 0:17:31.693 we believe you you're on. 0:17:31.653 --> 0:17:32.253 The right track. 0:17:32.293 --> 0:17:35.133 If they don't, it raises a number of questions. And 0:17:35.173 --> 0:17:38.133 it's the same for England. If their nine match winning 0:17:38.213 --> 0:17:41.133 run comes to an end at home, people are like, oh, well, 0:17:41.733 --> 0:17:44.213 we thought you were improving, but you're not quite there yet. 0:17:44.613 --> 0:17:47.813 That's exactly right, and that's why it feels so pervotal, 0:17:49.013 --> 0:17:53.053 you know, for both sides this weekend. And I don't 0:17:53.093 --> 0:17:55.453 think it's going to be I think it's going to 0:17:55.453 --> 0:17:57.093 be you know, it's probably gonna be one score game 0:17:57.173 --> 0:17:59.293 either way. It doesn't feel like either team's going to 0:17:59.293 --> 0:18:04.013 be able to really flex on the opposition. I'd be surprised. 0:18:04.373 --> 0:18:06.413 Maybe we'll come back and recall on Sundal on Monday 0:18:06.413 --> 0:18:09.213 and we'll be eating our work, dudes, and there will 0:18:09.253 --> 0:18:12.133 be a huge blowout. But it feels like with the 0:18:12.653 --> 0:18:15.053 nerves and the storylines and everything going into this game, 0:18:16.333 --> 0:18:19.253 it's poised for a grandstand finish and it could be 0:18:19.333 --> 0:18:21.813 just you know, a moment or two and that's where 0:18:22.093 --> 0:18:24.653 you do look to the bench and you do go, yep, 0:18:24.653 --> 0:18:27.213 they're probably you know, stacking it with a lot of 0:18:27.253 --> 0:18:30.653 Lions plays is a smart move from England. So to 0:18:30.693 --> 0:18:33.733 the All Blacks, Yeah, again, whether their bench can stand 0:18:33.813 --> 0:18:36.333 up where they get what they need out of McKenzie 0:18:36.493 --> 0:18:41.053 Leonard Brown. You know Ratzima has played two minutes on 0:18:41.093 --> 0:18:42.933 this tour so far. You wouldn't want to lose Roy 0:18:42.933 --> 0:18:45.133 again that one hundred percent. I mean you look at 0:18:45.133 --> 0:18:47.253 the All Blacks record with Roy guard over the last 0:18:47.293 --> 0:18:51.493 couple of years is ridiculous. Didn't play against South Africa 0:18:51.533 --> 0:18:54.293 this year. I think the only test, and may be 0:18:54.293 --> 0:18:56.613 wrong about this is the French Test last year in 0:18:56.613 --> 0:19:00.733 Paris that he's lost since Scott Robinson took over. He 0:19:00.813 --> 0:19:04.613 is pivotal to this team. So does he stay on 0:19:04.653 --> 0:19:08.493 for another you know minutes and then you basically give 0:19:08.533 --> 0:19:10.053 him the last test of the year off next week 0:19:10.093 --> 0:19:10.733 against Wales. 0:19:11.133 --> 0:19:12.173 Yep, definite. 0:19:13.133 --> 0:19:15.573 I mean going to look at It's just it's fascinating. 0:19:15.613 --> 0:19:18.453 I think there's so many different storylines to the Hollis 0:19:19.413 --> 0:19:23.653 might unfold this week, right, final thought from New Lam prediction. 0:19:23.413 --> 0:19:29.413 Please, Yes, this it pains me, Elias, but I've tipped 0:19:29.453 --> 0:19:31.453 England all week and I'm not gonna waiver. Actually, I 0:19:31.773 --> 0:19:35.093 just think there was an interesting stat today that there's 0:19:35.093 --> 0:19:39.933 only five All Black starters returning from this time last 0:19:40.013 --> 0:19:42.813 year at Twickenham, and I think that speaks to some 0:19:42.853 --> 0:19:45.693 of the big outs in this team. No Jordi Barrett, 0:19:45.773 --> 0:19:51.333 no Caleb Clark, Vi Patrick two polo to Tyro Lomax. 0:19:51.893 --> 0:19:53.413 And this is at a time where the All Blacks 0:19:53.413 --> 0:19:56.613 don't have strength and depth, and so I don't think 0:19:56.693 --> 0:19:58.133 this is the best team. 0:19:58.373 --> 0:20:00.413 I'm not fully convinced by what we've seen the past 0:20:00.453 --> 0:20:00.973 two weeks. 0:20:01.053 --> 0:20:04.893 I worry about the fatigue from last week having played 0:20:05.013 --> 0:20:07.053 half an hour one man short. 0:20:07.493 --> 0:20:09.773 Look, they could pull it the bag, the All Blacks. 0:20:10.333 --> 0:20:11.773 But I just feel like. 0:20:12.053 --> 0:20:14.533 This is potentially going to be England's day, which is 0:20:14.973 --> 0:20:16.813 going to be a tough pill to swallow. In front 0:20:16.813 --> 0:20:18.533 of eighty two thousand at Twickenham. 0:20:18.693 --> 0:20:20.613 Well, I'm going to say the All Blacks win by six. 0:20:20.853 --> 0:20:22.533 So there we go, There we go. Well, I hope 0:20:22.533 --> 0:20:22.933 you're right. 0:20:23.093 --> 0:20:25.213 We will see right. That'll do us for Rugby Direct. 0:20:25.253 --> 0:20:28.693 We will be back early part of next week with 0:20:29.213 --> 0:20:31.413 a podcast. Will the All Blacks still be searching for 0:20:31.453 --> 0:20:34.853