1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:02,680 Speaker 1: With us on the huddle. We have Jordan Williams Taxpayers 2 00:00:02,759 --> 00:00:04,920 Speaker 1: Union and Gareth Hugh's director at the Well Being Economy 3 00:00:04,920 --> 00:00:08,640 Speaker 1: Alliance former Green Party MPHI you two hello, right, we 4 00:00:08,720 --> 00:00:10,399 Speaker 1: might come back to the working from home. I think 5 00:00:10,440 --> 00:00:12,119 Speaker 1: we need to start with the Chris Sipkins thing. Is 6 00:00:12,119 --> 00:00:13,399 Speaker 1: it any of our business? Jordan? 7 00:00:14,920 --> 00:00:17,479 Speaker 2: No, No, it's not. 8 00:00:17,720 --> 00:00:20,319 Speaker 1: Even if the ex wife is drawing media attention to 9 00:00:20,360 --> 00:00:22,560 Speaker 1: it and it is circulating on social media, is it 10 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:23,320 Speaker 1: any of our business? 11 00:00:23,400 --> 00:00:28,560 Speaker 2: You still think no, very clearly. You want to know 12 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:33,400 Speaker 2: whether your leaders in a democracy are flawed in various 13 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:38,080 Speaker 2: different ways. And so you know, people say you don't 14 00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:41,360 Speaker 2: like negative politics or mut ragging or anything like that, 15 00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:44,839 Speaker 2: but very clearly people do because actually any politician will 16 00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:48,120 Speaker 2: say how great they are. It's the it's the other side. 17 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:53,000 Speaker 2: And I know we can't repeat what the specific allegations are, 18 00:00:53,159 --> 00:00:59,279 Speaker 2: but extremely tawdry and strike right to the character of 19 00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:02,560 Speaker 2: the person. As he was discussing, I'm really into minds 20 00:01:02,680 --> 00:01:08,240 Speaker 2: on this. I have seen a very nasty streak or 21 00:01:08,360 --> 00:01:12,040 Speaker 2: side of Christopher Hipkins. He defamed me during the last 22 00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:15,720 Speaker 2: lectioning campaign. His own press secretary acknowledged it was wrong 23 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:18,119 Speaker 2: and said he was, you know, an apology was coming 24 00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:21,080 Speaker 2: or a correction. It never came, and it was you. 25 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:23,240 Speaker 1: Remember, he had a crack at the KFC. I think 26 00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:23,880 Speaker 1: he had a crack at. 27 00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:28,080 Speaker 2: The Taliban, the talibanillas. 28 00:01:28,120 --> 00:01:30,120 Speaker 1: He had a crack at the two who went over that. 29 00:01:30,200 --> 00:01:32,520 Speaker 2: I don't think, and I'm quite comfortable to I think 30 00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:35,399 Speaker 2: it'd be defended defensible from a matrom point of view, 31 00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:39,760 Speaker 2: that he is economic with the truth and has a nasty, nasty, 32 00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:44,679 Speaker 2: streaky And so when I saw that post, I sort 33 00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:47,160 Speaker 2: of have some sympathy with the ex wife and that 34 00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:49,880 Speaker 2: if she is there, you know, his his you know, 35 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:52,160 Speaker 2: Chippy's brand is you know, mister friendly and if she 36 00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:55,160 Speaker 2: is there, sea thing, thinking that, well, you know, if 37 00:01:55,200 --> 00:01:58,000 Speaker 2: only they knew, I can have some sympathy. On the 38 00:01:58,040 --> 00:02:05,080 Speaker 2: other hand, horrendous for the children, Absolutely horrendous and totally unfair, 39 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:08,920 Speaker 2: and that I was tied up something. And I've not 40 00:02:09,600 --> 00:02:13,520 Speaker 2: seen the whole pressa but my staff was saying, you know, 41 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:16,640 Speaker 2: he you know, he came across very human and was upset. 42 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:19,400 Speaker 2: Both of that can be true, but I do think 43 00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:22,280 Speaker 2: that it is a really tough situation the media are 44 00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:24,720 Speaker 2: in because quite rightly, there is a section of the 45 00:02:24,720 --> 00:02:32,840 Speaker 2: population going, well, hang on, you went after Sam the tower. Yeah, 46 00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:38,639 Speaker 2: they didn't say then it was alleged or unconfirmed allegations. Well, 47 00:02:38,639 --> 00:02:41,000 Speaker 2: I mean, you know it is the ex wife. Who 48 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:44,000 Speaker 2: are the media expecting that, you know, to confirm. 49 00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:47,760 Speaker 1: She can pony up the evidence. Everyone will run it. 50 00:02:47,800 --> 00:02:50,639 Speaker 1: That's the difficulty. Gareth, what do you reckon our business 51 00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:50,920 Speaker 1: or not? 52 00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:54,799 Speaker 3: Oh? I don't think so. I mean it's do. 53 00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:56,520 Speaker 1: You think we ignore it then, Gareth? 54 00:02:57,280 --> 00:02:59,080 Speaker 3: No, No, What I'm saying is if it comes to 55 00:02:59,240 --> 00:03:02,680 Speaker 3: issues of illegality, which is in a case in this situation, 56 00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:06,880 Speaker 3: hypocrisy or public trust, it isn't the public interest. Just 57 00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:09,960 Speaker 3: because the public is interest interested doesn't mean it's in 58 00:03:09,960 --> 00:03:12,200 Speaker 3: the public interest. And I think the media buy in 59 00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:14,360 Speaker 3: large stuck a good balance. You know, they're not repeating 60 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:19,560 Speaker 3: the allegations. Remember that post actually was deleted. Children involved, 61 00:03:19,560 --> 00:03:21,959 Speaker 3: which I think we've all got to keep top of mind. 62 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:25,440 Speaker 3: And I did watch the press conference online and what 63 00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:29,160 Speaker 3: I saw was a very tough situation with a human 64 00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:32,480 Speaker 3: being really, you know, nearly breaking down when it comes 65 00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:34,800 Speaker 3: to question around us kids and how they're doing. So 66 00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:38,560 Speaker 3: it's tough for politicians. It's tough for politicians families, and 67 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:40,160 Speaker 3: I think we've got to be really careful when we 68 00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:42,000 Speaker 3: talk about these issues. 69 00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:44,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, fair point. All right, we'll take a brief break 70 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:46,200 Speaker 1: then we'll come back a right, you're back of the huddle. 71 00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:48,960 Speaker 1: Jordan Williams and Gareth Gareth Hughes. Gareth, we've been talking 72 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:51,160 Speaker 1: about the food data because we've got the food inflation data, 73 00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:54,360 Speaker 1: and I think it's becoming pretty clear that the fact 74 00:03:54,360 --> 00:03:56,840 Speaker 1: the cost of living has not abated yet and what 75 00:03:56,960 --> 00:03:58,680 Speaker 1: is going on around is going to make the cost 76 00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:00,920 Speaker 1: of living even worse means this is going to become 77 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:04,080 Speaker 1: quite a big problem for the selection. What do you think, Oh? 78 00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:07,040 Speaker 3: Absolutely, I mean we already had a cost of living crisis. 79 00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:09,320 Speaker 3: Now we're going to have an energy crisis. We're going 80 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:12,080 Speaker 3: to struggle with the two thirds of urea for fertilizer 81 00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:14,120 Speaker 3: that we bring into this country. It's going to have 82 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:16,720 Speaker 3: a huge impact. You know, I'm a vegetarian, so veggie's 83 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:19,240 Speaker 3: up nine percent is a big worry in the last year. 84 00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:21,640 Speaker 3: But it's my mince loving boy, the teenager who goes 85 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:23,920 Speaker 3: through tons of the stuff. You know, that's more than 86 00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:28,560 Speaker 3: twenty percent. So already Kiwi families are really struggling with 87 00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:30,919 Speaker 3: the price, with the costs of living. Mince was one 88 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:33,080 Speaker 3: of those traditional staples, you know, you could always sort 89 00:04:33,080 --> 00:04:35,000 Speaker 3: of rely on it to bulk out the meal and 90 00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:37,479 Speaker 3: feed the whole family. And for the government, you know, 91 00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:40,360 Speaker 3: they don't really have a particularly good or strong story 92 00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:43,599 Speaker 3: around cost of living. Crashing the economy and driving people 93 00:04:43,640 --> 00:04:46,520 Speaker 3: into unemployment and across the ditch hasn't worked. 94 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:46,840 Speaker 2: You know. 95 00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:51,560 Speaker 3: Ocis might actually increase along with interest rates. So the 96 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:53,680 Speaker 3: government's very weak on this and this is what the 97 00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:58,760 Speaker 3: opinion polling shows. Kiwis want actual tangible outcomes on the basics, 98 00:04:58,839 --> 00:05:00,080 Speaker 3: things like mints and veggies. 99 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:02,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, so what does it mean for the National Party 100 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:03,320 Speaker 1: election strategy. 101 00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:07,240 Speaker 2: It's a well, it is a huge test for Nikola 102 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:11,120 Speaker 2: Willis in the coming weeks because it does appear we 103 00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:15,000 Speaker 2: are on the same path as COVID in that there 104 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:17,760 Speaker 2: is talk about support, you know, and quite rightly there 105 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:22,600 Speaker 2: should be support, but no no talk of the government 106 00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:28,080 Speaker 2: itself trimming its belt or sharpening a pencil in the 107 00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:30,040 Speaker 2: way that need to. And so what that results in 108 00:05:30,520 --> 00:05:34,920 Speaker 2: is just like COVID, you end up with boosting inflation, 109 00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:37,159 Speaker 2: which is going to be the case anyway, with the 110 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:42,080 Speaker 2: high fuel prices on the meat. You know, New Zealand 111 00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:46,480 Speaker 2: has really enjoyed very high commodity prices and we've benefited 112 00:05:46,480 --> 00:05:49,360 Speaker 2: from red meat and our dollar is not very good. 113 00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:52,560 Speaker 2: This is the flip side of that coin. But between 114 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:57,320 Speaker 2: food and energy, that really hurts a particular well, it 115 00:05:57,400 --> 00:05:58,919 Speaker 2: hurts low income New Zealanders. 116 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:01,599 Speaker 1: Yeah, well it food. It's everybody, right, food, it's everybody 117 00:06:01,680 --> 00:06:02,360 Speaker 1: just proportionately. 118 00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:04,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, much more, that's right. 119 00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:07,280 Speaker 1: Much much more, and it's impossible to escape. Now, Gareth, 120 00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:09,080 Speaker 1: how do you feel about working from home? Because I'm 121 00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:12,839 Speaker 1: just going to disclaimer I hate it for multiple reasons. 122 00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:14,440 Speaker 1: But everybody's just going to dick around at home and 123 00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:16,000 Speaker 1: do their washing and not actually work. But how do 124 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:18,000 Speaker 1: you feel about going to do the working from home 125 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:18,680 Speaker 1: to save the fuel? 126 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:22,520 Speaker 3: I love it. I think it's a good three days 127 00:06:22,520 --> 00:06:25,600 Speaker 3: a week, two days in the office. I know it's 128 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:29,080 Speaker 3: not possible for everyone, but you know, your previous commentator 129 00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:32,320 Speaker 3: from Westpac talked about a seventy five percent chance of rationing. 130 00:06:32,680 --> 00:06:35,120 Speaker 3: I don't know why we're not doing the easy, low 131 00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:38,280 Speaker 3: hanging fruit which doesn't cost money. You know, we've got 132 00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:40,120 Speaker 3: all the tools and kit to be able to do this. 133 00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:43,000 Speaker 3: We've done it before. I just think government departmentership be 134 00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:43,840 Speaker 3: a bit pragmatic. 135 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:46,120 Speaker 1: Gareth, you make a very very good point, right, if 136 00:06:46,160 --> 00:06:48,240 Speaker 1: it does get to the point where we do have 137 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:53,120 Speaker 1: to ration, does the failure to ration as early as 138 00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:55,720 Speaker 1: now when we're talking about it, does that reflect badly 139 00:06:55,760 --> 00:06:56,400 Speaker 1: on the government? 140 00:06:57,200 --> 00:07:00,640 Speaker 3: Oh? Exactly. And I think they've been relatively relaxed as 141 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:03,279 Speaker 3: this crisis has played out over the last couple of weeks. 142 00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:06,279 Speaker 3: I think they should be moving with a lot more urgency. Look, 143 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:09,239 Speaker 3: we should be you know, bringing back support for electric vehicles. 144 00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:13,040 Speaker 3: We should be rolling out you know, this is the 145 00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:16,040 Speaker 3: energy independence that's going to save Manas and protect us 146 00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:16,720 Speaker 3: in the Senate. 147 00:07:16,840 --> 00:07:18,920 Speaker 1: Stop at Gareth, you just want some help getting just 148 00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:24,679 Speaker 1: to wind. I mean, we are possibly getting ahead of ourselves. 149 00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:26,520 Speaker 1: But again that's right. 150 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:29,840 Speaker 2: The thing is is that the National Party default and 151 00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:31,840 Speaker 2: I saw they send an email to their supporters on 152 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:34,240 Speaker 2: Friday night that was forwarded to me that said, you know, 153 00:07:34,280 --> 00:07:37,320 Speaker 2: New Zealand is well positioned and resilient and all of that, 154 00:07:37,400 --> 00:07:39,280 Speaker 2: and with the markets have been very clear us in 155 00:07:39,320 --> 00:07:43,760 Speaker 2: Australia where's staffed and we actually are I think the 156 00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:46,840 Speaker 2: government because with the last link of a very long 157 00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:54,760 Speaker 2: logistics chain, and we don't hold our stock on shore. 158 00:07:55,280 --> 00:07:58,920 Speaker 2: And the South Korea and Singapore are being quite not 159 00:07:58,960 --> 00:08:02,880 Speaker 2: so Singapore, but South Carea being very clear that even 160 00:08:03,320 --> 00:08:07,120 Speaker 2: even supplies that are on the ship outside the country, 161 00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:08,680 Speaker 2: they will in stract the shipping companies to bring it 162 00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:12,240 Speaker 2: back and compensate for breach of contract, which is all 163 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:14,160 Speaker 2: very well, we'll get some compensation, but we actually need 164 00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:17,240 Speaker 2: the gas now. In terms of the work from home, look, 165 00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:20,520 Speaker 2: that will happened naturally if there is rational you don't 166 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:22,679 Speaker 2: like it or not. In terms of whether the government 167 00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:24,680 Speaker 2: should be working from home, you know, reasonable mind from 168 00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:27,720 Speaker 2: a taxpayer perspective can can differ. Now, of course they 169 00:08:27,720 --> 00:08:29,280 Speaker 2: should all be at work. One of the reasons why 170 00:08:29,280 --> 00:08:31,080 Speaker 2: Wellington is so dead is that they didn't get back 171 00:08:31,080 --> 00:08:33,840 Speaker 2: to work quickly thanks to very far now. But on 172 00:08:33,920 --> 00:08:36,720 Speaker 2: the other hand, having them all at home, ideally in bed, 173 00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:40,160 Speaker 2: doing nothing probably results in a more productive New Zealand too. 174 00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:42,960 Speaker 1: So are you saying if we send the if we 175 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:45,040 Speaker 1: send the public servants home and get them to do nothing, 176 00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:46,240 Speaker 1: the world is a better place. 177 00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:47,360 Speaker 2: Of course, yes, of. 178 00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:53,320 Speaker 3: Course, any public servants or did Jordan work with any 179 00:08:53,320 --> 00:08:55,640 Speaker 3: public servants over COVID, because I know I had these 180 00:08:55,679 --> 00:08:56,720 Speaker 3: guys will working there. 181 00:08:57,160 --> 00:08:59,720 Speaker 2: A few of them. No that's not actually I had 182 00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:02,840 Speaker 2: start right in the right in the heart of they 183 00:09:02,840 --> 00:09:07,319 Speaker 2: work for me subsequently, And no, that that's not depend 184 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:10,439 Speaker 2: which depended which agency. But by and large, no, there 185 00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:11,360 Speaker 2: was there was a lot of. 186 00:09:11,559 --> 00:09:13,640 Speaker 1: I mean, I think it came down to characters in 187 00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:15,480 Speaker 1: the garrets. Like we all had friends who was who 188 00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:17,079 Speaker 1: were working in the public service their butts off, and 189 00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:19,160 Speaker 1: then others who decided to renovate their home and pretend 190 00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:19,800 Speaker 1: they were working. 191 00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:22,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's the same in the business world, you know, 192 00:09:22,679 --> 00:09:25,360 Speaker 3: and in the real world as well. But look, the 193 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:26,920 Speaker 3: heart of the matter is we might have to do 194 00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:30,400 Speaker 3: work from home anyway, we might hope more serious. 195 00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:36,240 Speaker 2: Things twenty two staff. I really think my organization's productivity suffers, 196 00:09:36,280 --> 00:09:40,600 Speaker 2: not it's And as much as I of course, I 197 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:42,360 Speaker 2: want to be flexible as much as I can. But 198 00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:45,760 Speaker 2: the idea of going to a permanent or to be 199 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:48,480 Speaker 2: a sort of some sort of hybrid thing, it would 200 00:09:48,480 --> 00:09:48,839 Speaker 2: be awful. 201 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:50,839 Speaker 1: It would be awful, But you know, we've got to 202 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:52,079 Speaker 1: do what we've got to do. I've come around to 203 00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:54,160 Speaker 1: the idea. Actually now I'm a fan of it. 204 00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:58,080 Speaker 2: Guys, broadcasting from your bedroom and we'll be already and 205 00:09:58,080 --> 00:09:59,040 Speaker 2: he's eland at no time. 206 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:00,559 Speaker 3: I like that. 207 00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:04,040 Speaker 1: Yay for everyone. Jordan Williams, Taxpayer's Union, Gareth Hughes, director 208 00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:07,160 Speaker 1: of the Well Being Economy Alliance. For more from Hither 209 00:10:07,280 --> 00:10:10,000 Speaker 1: Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to news talks. 210 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:13,199 Speaker 2: It'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast 211 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:14,280 Speaker 2: on iHeartRadio.