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Speaker 1: Nineteen away from six the huddle with New Zealand Southeby's

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Speaker 1: International Realty, the global leader in luxury real estate.

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Speaker 2: Turns out that I was very confident the other day

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Speaker 2: that something was completely kooky and I was wrong. So

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Speaker 2: I'm going to have to address that before the end

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Speaker 2: of this hour. With me on the huddle, we have

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Speaker 2: clear de Law, who was of course a journalist in

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Speaker 2: Thomas Scrumger of the Maximum Institute. Hi, you two good Claire.

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Speaker 2: When was the last time you saw Jim Bulger.

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Speaker 3: As his ninetieth birthday party earlier this year? And why

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Speaker 3: can I and you know it was a great occasion.

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Speaker 3: It was lower Keevan many of the partneries he probably

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Speaker 3: had when he was much younger, but you know, he

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Speaker 3: was ninety. He was not well, but he was in

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Speaker 3: very good spirits. There was a great sort of sense

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Speaker 3: occasion about it. Mostly family, because goodness me, you know,

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Speaker 3: with nine kids and lots of grandchildren and then brothers, sisters, cousins, auntie, uncles,

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Speaker 3: it was a big gathering.

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Speaker 2: And then trying tell me his aunties and uncles were

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Speaker 2: still alive.

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Speaker 3: No, the aunties and uncles of you know, extended rallies

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Speaker 3: and you know Jones and Joan's family. You know, Joan's

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Speaker 3: family are there. You know, I'm saying this is a

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Speaker 3: big extended family. And the kids, the kids were great.

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Speaker 3: You know, the kids range in age from around about

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Speaker 3: sixty down to forty, and so they're all grown ups now.

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Speaker 3: But they composed of, you know, a pretty funny song

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Speaker 3: for their dad. They played the guitar. It was a

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Speaker 3: very Irish event in many ways, Irish Catholic, and I

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Speaker 3: think he was as happy as a clam.

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Speaker 2: I think. So it wasn't really shocked that he passed

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Speaker 2: away because he had been really unwell for quite a time.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, his health had been failing, and he remained him

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Speaker 3: really I thought great spirits given that because he was

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Speaker 3: on dialysis at home, you know, up to five times

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Speaker 3: a day. That's that's really taxing on the system. It

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Speaker 3: stops you doing a whole bunch of other things, really

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Speaker 3: restraining on Joan. But they have family nearby, and a

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Speaker 3: couple of the door has lived nearby and they will

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Speaker 3: sort of in and out all the time. And also

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Speaker 3: Jim had the phone and he really you know, her

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Speaker 3: calling up his old mates, just yearning about the good

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Speaker 3: old days, and also about what's going on currently in politics.

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Speaker 3: And I heard, you know, Ruth Richardson commenting on him,

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Speaker 3: repudiating some of her you know, the policies she drove through. Well,

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Speaker 3: he wasn't an ideologue, as I think one could say

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Speaker 3: Ruth was, so he had had time to reflect on

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Speaker 3: the human toll of those doesn't mean that those policies

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Speaker 3: and their implementation was wrong, but he was basically someone

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Speaker 3: with a pretty big heart, and he could see that

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Speaker 3: there is always somebody who gets the you know, the

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Speaker 3: bad end of the deal, and others get much richer

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Speaker 3: as a result of some polities.

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Speaker 2: Now, Thomas, you're a bit of a student of politics, word,

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Speaker 2: what what's your take on him?

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Speaker 4: Certainly, I think it's interesting how much of a an

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Speaker 4: ambiguous figure Jim Bolger is when people are reflect on

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Speaker 4: his legacy, people who he was collaborating with in politics,

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Speaker 4: Ruth Richardson recognized a rift had emerged in how they

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Speaker 4: were viewing the legacy of their government, and some people

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Speaker 4: who were on the other side of politics came to

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Speaker 4: recognize Jim Bolgia. I think his largest legacy really is

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Speaker 4: those treaty settlements, and many people have recognized that because

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Speaker 4: they were such a transtional event for New Zealand politics.

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Speaker 4: He recognized that for Mahi to have Mana Mortuhaki to

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Speaker 4: have I guess a sense of redress and independence, it

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Speaker 4: was actually economic independence that really mattered and those have

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Speaker 4: been huge successes, Nitahu and Tainui economic powerhouses now because

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Speaker 4: of what Jim Bolger did. And I guess the other

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Speaker 4: observation to make is he was our last prime minister

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Speaker 4: without a tertiary education. Ever since, it's all been Uni people,

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Speaker 4: and I think that's a real shift in New Zealand

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Speaker 4: public life. It's hard to imagine now and I think

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Speaker 4: this is a tragedy, but it's hard to imagine now

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Speaker 4: who was coming into public political leadership without a university education.

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Speaker 4: And I think that's real loss to us.

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Speaker 2: As you know what, I actually do agree with you,

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Speaker 2: and also the last of the farmer prime ministers, isn't

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Speaker 2: it right. We'll take a break, come back to you

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Speaker 2: guys shortly.

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Speaker 1: The Huddle with New Zealand Southeby's International Realty, Find your one.

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Speaker 2: Of a Kind twelve away from six and we have

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Speaker 2: the huddle back with us. Claire de lu and Thomas Scrimger,

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Speaker 2: Heather read the boats. What are you worried about? We're

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Speaker 2: going to sink them before any war anyway, which is

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Speaker 2: probably true. We'll figure out a way to make the

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Speaker 2: autopilot network. Thomas, A. You worried about this with the Chinese?

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Speaker 3: Not especially?

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Speaker 4: I mean I can hear the concerned people have. China

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Speaker 4: is obviously a geopolitical actor that we're not always necessarily

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Speaker 4: aligned with if we're going to be cagy about language,

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Speaker 4: but certainly it's a real risk to New Zealand. But

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Speaker 4: we're doing business with China in all aspects of life anyway.

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Speaker 4: If we're going to draw a line with engaging with

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Speaker 4: China and doing business purchasing theory seems like a weird

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Speaker 4: place to draw that line. Obviously would prefer to have

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Speaker 4: a values aligned country pies off. But if the Chinese

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Speaker 4: fiories are the best deal, it seems like a pragmatic

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Speaker 4: thing to proceed.

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Speaker 3: What do you think, Claire, I'm afraid I have to agree.

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Speaker 3: It does seem to me gives a degree of paranoia

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Speaker 3: about it, But you know, perhaps there is justifiable concern.

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Speaker 3: But I didn't hear Anne Marie Brady Fayvor decision was

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Speaker 3: actually wrong, And I just wonder if one looks at

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Speaker 3: the contract, is there an ability, for example, for New

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Speaker 3: Zealand to have inspectors go in and try and work

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Speaker 3: out where the potential sort of software is being planted

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Speaker 3: that's going to track us. Reality is, most of us

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Speaker 3: are easily tracked, and you know, communications in scept it

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Speaker 3: because we're using iPhones made in China, and we have

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Speaker 3: televisions made in China, and we have a range of

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Speaker 3: other things that can track us and are at tracking

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Speaker 3: us all the time. So I'm not as concerned as

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Speaker 3: possibly I should be. Maybe I'm wrong, Yeah, I.

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Speaker 2: Think I think actually you've probably hit the nail on

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Speaker 2: the head there, Claire. I suspect we should be a

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Speaker 2: little bit more concerned. We're probably going to end up

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Speaker 2: having to decide whether we want to go to war

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Speaker 2: with them or not. But you know who can be bothered?

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Speaker 3: Well, it's probably also a timing issue. Yeah, you know

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Speaker 3: they probably can deliver on time. Now that's going to

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Speaker 3: have been really important to our Minister of Railways. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: these theories are delivered on time.

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Speaker 2: Very good point. Hey, Thomas, what do you think about

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Speaker 2: the BSA deciding that it's got greater powers than everybody

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Speaker 2: else thought they had.

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Speaker 4: I think they're fairly optimistic if they think they're going

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Speaker 4: to be able to get this across the line a

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Speaker 4: little the new kind of ambiguity. Going back twenty nineteen,

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Speaker 4: they had a paper where they were trying to figure

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Speaker 4: out what they could or couldn't do around the Internet.

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Speaker 4: But I think it's just a basic fact that even

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Speaker 4: if they want to, firstly, they should be done by legislation,

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Speaker 4: by Parliament deciding. But I just don't think they're going

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Speaker 4: to be able to have any control over the Internet.

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Speaker 4: Imagine if they did try to regulate and were trying

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Speaker 4: to impose sanctions upon Short and Plunket. The absolute worst

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Speaker 4: case scenario for him is that he moves to Sydney

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Speaker 4: and does the same show, because unlike old fashioned media

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Speaker 4: radio and TV, even if it's that is produced overseas,

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Speaker 4: it still has to come over New Zealand airwaves. But

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Speaker 4: that's not the case of Internet produced material. If Plunkett

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Speaker 4: wanted to move to Sydney and do the same things,

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Speaker 4: only none of it is produced or being sent over

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Speaker 4: New Zealand airwaves and he's away laughing, So it's probably

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Speaker 4: good for Plunket's brand. He set up the platform, you know,

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Speaker 4: in his own own words to be independent, and now

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Speaker 4: he's got a water fight. So good luck to the BSA.

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Speaker 2: I guess, Claire, I don't think they thought this through.

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Speaker 2: What do you think?

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Speaker 3: Well? I think if people who are opposed to it

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Speaker 3: think it's through, they'll just complain about everything and will

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Speaker 3: be so clogged up, but they will never be able.

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Speaker 2: To chase the excellent point you make, Lead. It's all

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Speaker 2: you need to do is go listen to the Alternative

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Speaker 2: Alternative Commentary Collective. They swear about five hundred and twenty

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Speaker 2: seven times a minute. So just complain about all of

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Speaker 2: that to the BSA. They won't even be able to

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Speaker 2: get through a day's worth of complaints in a year.

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Speaker 3: They totally won't. And so if people you know, I

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Speaker 3: want to obstruct it, they could easily do that, but

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Speaker 3: also have to well what sort of teeth have they got?

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Speaker 3: What sort of anctions can they apply that are meaningful?

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Speaker 3: They sell them for b as. They seldom for example,

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Speaker 3: asks for broadcaster and radio at least to take down something.

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Speaker 3: Usually there's you know, they find that something has been

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Speaker 3: wrong and an apology might be required, but mostly broadcast

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Speaker 3: podcasts can stay up and you could argue they should

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Speaker 3: be taken down, but they don't usually do that, and

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Speaker 3: so I just sort of wonder what the point is

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Speaker 3: of expanding the REMIT when what they're doing currently, if

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Speaker 3: it's to have any sort of substantial effect, needs reform anyway.

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Speaker 2: It makes such a good point, guys, it's wonderful to

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Speaker 2: talk to you. Thank you so much. Clear to lord

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Speaker 2: journalists than Thomas Scrimger maximums too.

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Speaker 1: For more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive. Listen live to

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Speaker 1: news Talks it'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow

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Speaker 1: the podcast on iHeartRadio