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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Saturday Morning with Jack Team podcast

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Speaker 1: from News Talks at B.

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Speaker 2: And My feature guest this morning is a friend and colleague,

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Speaker 2: Barbara Driver. One News Pacific correspondent, Barbara Driver the one

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Speaker 2: and only. She is no stranger to taking on a challenge.

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Speaker 2: She spent the last three decades shedding light on issues

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Speaker 2: across the Pacific. She's been locked up in Fiji, threatened

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Speaker 2: in Papua New Guineas, she's faced natural disasters. She's covered

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Speaker 2: military coups and criminal activity. She probably doesn't like the term,

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Speaker 2: but it's a veteran of New Zealand journalism. She has

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Speaker 2: faced all sorts of criticism, even death threats, for her

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Speaker 2: tenacious pursuit of the truth and now to share her

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Speaker 2: incredible experiences, Barbara Dreever has written a memoir. It's called

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Speaker 2: Be Brave, and she's with us here live and studio.

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Speaker 2: This morning killed a good morning.

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Speaker 3: You're on a bill of Ana at a warm Pacific.

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Speaker 2: It's not hey. So what's it like as someone who

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Speaker 2: has spent their life telling other people's stories to turn

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Speaker 2: the attention on themselves and tell their are you.

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Speaker 3: Would know this? It's hugely uncomfortable. Because you know, we'd

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Speaker 3: like to give a voice to others. I certainly do.

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Speaker 3: I don't do this job for me, and it's just

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Speaker 3: really uncomfortable, But it's kind of cool at the same time,

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Speaker 3: because I'm giving people a look behind the scenes at

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Speaker 3: a time when you know, media is not really trusted.

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Speaker 3: But I really want people to know just the sort

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Speaker 3: of the work and the effort and stuff that goes

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Speaker 3: on behind the scenes, and also a little bit of

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Speaker 3: personal stuff as well, which I'm also hugely uncomfortable.

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Speaker 2: But I mean, you had to make yourself vulnerable for

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Speaker 2: this book.

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Speaker 3: This is one of the tough Yeah, I've got to say,

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Speaker 3: it's one of the toughest things I think I've ever done.

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Speaker 3: One of the things is I realized how old I

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Speaker 3: am when I started writing about when I first started

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Speaker 3: in journalism. But yeah, it was really tough navigating that.

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Speaker 3: And there's been a few tears over it as well,

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Speaker 3: because yeah, there's some parts in it that I just

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Speaker 3: would rather not write about. Actually it's my memoir, and

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Speaker 3: some of those things do affect how I work and

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Speaker 3: how I approach other people's.

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Speaker 2: That's quite insightful if you like to be able to

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Speaker 2: see how your personal experience impacts the way that you

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Speaker 2: kind of go about your storytelling. But then to be

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Speaker 2: able to also appreciate what the people whose stories you

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Speaker 2: were telling are going through when you're asking them to

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Speaker 2: be vulnerable as well.

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Speaker 3: Right, I had to tell us their stories, and actually

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Speaker 3: it's such a big ask. And you know, my book

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Speaker 3: is dedicated to my late brother who took his life

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Speaker 3: Andrew and oh man, he was just the most terrific,

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Speaker 3: wonderful human being and we all loved them to pieces.

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Speaker 3: And you know, it's a sort of a grief that

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Speaker 3: you find really hard to never if it was a

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Speaker 3: few years ago now, but I still find it really difficult,

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Speaker 3: and I think about them every day. But then when

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Speaker 3: I approach other people, you know, for interviews, and sometimes

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Speaker 3: they are in terrible circumstances like the measles deaths, and

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Speaker 3: these parents are warning their children, and you know, I

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Speaker 3: understood where they can me from, and it gives you

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Speaker 3: a sensitivity that you're able to navigate with them through

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Speaker 3: that and telling their stories.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, obviously, the decision to dedicate the book to Andrew

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Speaker 2: is a really significant one, and that has been kind of,

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Speaker 2: you know, a huge trauma for you and your family.

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Speaker 2: Why was that so important?

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Speaker 3: You know, it's been a few years and it's taken

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Speaker 3: us a long time to get through it, and you

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Speaker 3: don't even get through it really, But I can. I

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Speaker 3: can talk about it now just without crying. And I'm

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Speaker 3: a private person as well, Jack, But I just felt

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Speaker 3: if I'm writing about my book and my story then

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Speaker 3: and the people I talked to, then I didn't need

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Speaker 3: to talk about him and also pay tribute to him

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Speaker 3: as as a brilliant young man. And I know a

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Speaker 3: lot of other families in New Zealand go through these

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Speaker 3: sorts of trauma.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I think you're not just telling people to

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Speaker 2: be brave. I think that decision it self was incredibly.

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Speaker 3: It was. Yeah, it was a really I rewrote and

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Speaker 3: rewrote that chapter. It's a tough one.

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Speaker 2: Journalism, Yes, please talk about the news. You found it

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Speaker 2: really tricky to get a job in, which seems crazy

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Speaker 2: to me now. But take us all the way back.

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Speaker 2: Why did you want to become a journalist?

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Speaker 3: Well, I did a degree in education at university and

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Speaker 3: I decided I didn't want to be a teacher. No,

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Speaker 3: And I just decided that there was other stuff I

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Speaker 3: could do that I wanted to do and writing. I

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Speaker 3: became a print journalist fast. I really wanted to make

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Speaker 3: I know it sounds sort of cliche, but I did

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Speaker 3: want to make a difference. And I think for me,

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Speaker 3: putting Pacific voices on mainstream and mainstream platform is really important.

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Speaker 2: And give us a sense of how elevated or otherwise

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Speaker 2: those voices and stories were when you started telling Pacific stories,

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Speaker 2: because we didn't say a whole lot of Pacific.

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Speaker 3: No, there wasn't and there was hardly any. And I

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Speaker 3: found out how to get a job because people didn't

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Speaker 3: rate them, and not the public. It was you know,

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Speaker 3: managers and mainstream media didn't and they didn't have to.

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Speaker 3: They just were like, no, we don't care. And in fact,

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Speaker 3: one person actually said to me, I just don't care.

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Speaker 3: We don't care about this. And I went to the

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Speaker 3: Cook Islands because I couldn't get a job here and

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Speaker 3: started co owned a newspaper at the time and also

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Speaker 3: word for Cook Island News, and that gave me a

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Speaker 3: great grounding. But yeah, so it wasn't very popular and

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Speaker 3: then you know, you come back and for me, a

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Speaker 3: story is a story is a story, right, and also

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Speaker 3: what happens in the Pacific affects us here in New Zealand,

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Speaker 3: and it's becoming more and more evident as time goes

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Speaker 3: on just how important the Pacific is to us. And also,

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Speaker 3: sorry Jack, but Mum and Dad's on the couch. They

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Speaker 3: love Pacific stories.

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Speaker 1: Also.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and I get people up to me, coming up

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Speaker 3: to me all the time because my job isn't to

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Speaker 3: be hold the flag for Pacific people. My job is

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Speaker 3: to give a platform for Pacific voices. Some of those

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Speaker 3: voices ain't that good. I've had to chase some of

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Speaker 3: those voices down long corridors. But that's important, of course,

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Speaker 3: we have to be fair and balanced. And but then

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Speaker 3: you know, there are such great Pacific people and it

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Speaker 3: is such a privilege to be able to feature some

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Speaker 3: of those, you know, like children like tay Kami, who

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Speaker 3: is a hero in my and she still makes me

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Speaker 3: cry when I think about it. She had terminal cancer.

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Speaker 3: I interviewed her like a couple of weeks before she died.

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Speaker 3: And she flew the flag for Tonga and she was

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Speaker 3: much loved by the people. She got a medal from

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Speaker 3: the king and I was there when the Tongue and

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Speaker 3: King gave it to her. And it was such a privilege.

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Speaker 3: And it's stuff like that, you know, you can see it.

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Speaker 3: I'm excited, suddenly get excited, okay, and so stuff like that.

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Speaker 3: I do think and I'm really grateful to Television New Zealand,

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Speaker 3: Jake like, because they have given me that platform for many,

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Speaker 3: many many years one news we've had that, and it's

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Speaker 3: fair to say that I do put you know, as

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Speaker 3: you know, in the newsroom meals here my little feet

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Speaker 3: dogs stamping across the floor, and I think my story

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Speaker 3: should be higher up. And you know, so I do

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Speaker 3: really know how to advocate yea, yeah, yeah, totally.

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Speaker 2: It occurs to me if we're to put on we

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Speaker 2: started the show this morning being a bit more geopolitical

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Speaker 2: than we usually are, and if we're to put our

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Speaker 2: geopolitical hats on just for a moment once again, it

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Speaker 2: really occurs to me that over the time you have

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Speaker 2: been the Pacific correspondent for TVNZ, we've gone from wanting

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Speaker 2: to elevate Pacific stories in New Zealand more than they

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Speaker 2: were for the reasons you've outlined. I mean, first of all,

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Speaker 2: the audience wants them, but also I mean these are

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Speaker 2: there are people, right people? Yeah, But second of all

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Speaker 2: that there's been a real shift in the last couple

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Speaker 2: of years where all of a sudden the world suddenly

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Speaker 2: looking at the Pacific and going, actually, this region really

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Speaker 2: really matter, and this big contest between these world powers,

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Speaker 2: this is where it's all going down. So what have

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Speaker 2: you observed there?

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Speaker 3: I'm kind of frightened for the Pacific right now. I

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Speaker 3: think that we are at the cusp of enormous change.

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Speaker 3: And even this you know, current conflict with Iran and

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Speaker 3: or in Iran around Iran Middle East is affect already

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Speaker 3: the Pacific countries are worried from a grassroots level. They're

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Speaker 3: worried about the cost of fuel and they're already securing

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Speaker 3: their their essentials in the Pacific right now. But yes,

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Speaker 3: it's a competition for this space, which is you know,

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Speaker 3: it's one of the biggest stations in the world right

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Speaker 3: and it's where ships come through. The China would like

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Speaker 3: ports there, and the US have already got ports there,

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Speaker 3: would like more. And so when you have that sort

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Speaker 3: of contestation and they're picking countries off, it suddenly becomes

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Speaker 3: a big issue. And for New Zealand, we see it

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Speaker 3: as they say, our is our backyard. But actually it's

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Speaker 3: our front yard and we better remember that because that

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Speaker 3: what happens there is going to affect us here.

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Speaker 2: It's such a good distinction. That's really important. Yeah, you

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Speaker 2: have had your share of hear raising experiences over the years.

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Speaker 3: I've been locked up a few times.

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, it is easy to laugh about it, and

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Speaker 2: that's where my instinct goes to be like, hahaha, what's

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Speaker 2: it like to be locked up? And what's your tip

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Speaker 2: on surviving being locked up, whether it's in Fiji or

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Speaker 2: whether it's a narrow wherever else. But I also know

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Speaker 2: it can be potentially really traumatic thing to go through it.

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Speaker 3: It really was.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So how do you reflect on those kinds of

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Speaker 2: experiences you know?

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Speaker 3: I have. I'm very methodical in how I deal with things,

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Speaker 3: so and as I've got older, I've got more more

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Speaker 3: measured about things, and I have strategies that I put

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Speaker 3: in place to protect myself and to actually so when

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Speaker 3: I was locked up in Fiji, for example, I do

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Speaker 3: know it sounds really weird and it's embarrassing, but I

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Speaker 3: you know, when I was told that the military probably

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Speaker 3: come for me that night and I was in a

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Speaker 3: detention center, I would taking my clothes off and on.

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Speaker 3: And the reason I did that was because we'd heard

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Speaker 3: about some of the things that were happening to people

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Speaker 3: who were being taken up to the military. Woman women

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Speaker 3: who were being taken up to the military camps. And I'm,

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Speaker 3: you know, and I'm quite a scrappy old thing and

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Speaker 3: I and I thought, I am not going to let

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Speaker 3: these guys get the better of me. And so I

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Speaker 3: thought if I could practice that, I could look at

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Speaker 3: people in the eye and men in the eye and go, yeah,

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Speaker 3: that won't best me on that. But you know, it was.

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Speaker 3: It was a really tough night. And I keep running

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Speaker 3: to the window every time I heard a car and

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Speaker 3: was like looking out the bars and thinking, is that

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Speaker 3: a military car come to get me? So there are

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Speaker 3: things that you know, And actually, Jack, when I was

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Speaker 3: writing some of these chapters, I'd had glossed over it

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Speaker 3: in my head and moved on to we looch from

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Speaker 3: story to story to story, and so when I'm writing,

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Speaker 3: I was like, oh my gosh, and the nullery thing,

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Speaker 3: you know, I mean, you've been locked up and now

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Speaker 3: it was just like, oh my gosh. I was writing

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Speaker 3: and thinking, oh man, how did I cope with that like,

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Speaker 3: I did, but I did, and I'm glad that I did.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, It's like an incredibly kind of rich diversity

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Speaker 2: of experiences that you've had over the years. But your

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Speaker 2: time as specific correspondent kind of reminds me of Robert

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Speaker 2: Fisk and that the great Middle East and journalists, or

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Speaker 2: late great Midlasee and gurists, because I remember watching a

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Speaker 2: documentary with him in which he is an amazing fist

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Speaker 2: documentary in which he says, once he became the correspondent

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Speaker 2: in the Middle East, he felt like a lot of

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Speaker 2: journalists would just look at what's the next gig, what's

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Speaker 2: the next gig, what's the next gig, and try and

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Speaker 2: move from one thing together. But he was like, no,

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Speaker 2: that there The more time I spend in this role,

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Speaker 2: the more I appreciate and understand the issues that are

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Speaker 2: at play. The more I developed my contact base, the

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Speaker 2: more value I can give to my readers or followers.

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Speaker 2: And I feel like, that's one of the amazing things

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Speaker 2: you've done, is you have just poured yourself into this

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Speaker 2: role over such a long time and you just get

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Speaker 2: better as a result. And there's honestly, there is nothing,

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Speaker 2: There's no there's nothing that there's no alternative for just

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Speaker 2: time and experience.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right. And we have to hold leaders and

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Speaker 3: people in power to account. We do, because if we don't,

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Speaker 3: who does. And and I just think that's super important.

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Speaker 3: And there's no there's no one who's off my menu.

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Speaker 3: So and yeah, so I do think that's really important

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Speaker 3: as well.

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Speaker 2: There's no other job you aspired to a news necessarily.

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Speaker 3: Not a news No. I've always wanted to be. I've

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Speaker 3: always wanted to be the perfect correspondent. And I'm the

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Speaker 3: perfect correspondent and I'm grateful for it.

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Speaker 2: And the funny thing is that, I mean, not only

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Speaker 2: are you a Pacific correspondent to your New Zealand audience,

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Speaker 2: but you are like the kind of you are, the

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Speaker 2: kind of queen of the Pacific traveling around, right, And

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Speaker 2: I mean the story that the book has all these

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Speaker 2: amazing photos and experiences with colleagues and that kind of thing.

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Speaker 2: But I walk around sometimes with John Campbell and I'm,

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Speaker 2: oh my god, it's like walking around with you know,

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Speaker 2: like with Oprah or something like he's just contantly stopping

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Speaker 2: the street. But I feel like that's pales in comparison.

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Speaker 2: To your experience in the Pacific.

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Speaker 3: Well, I do come back looking very fat and tanned

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Speaker 3: because I keep people keep voisting food on me. And yeah,

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Speaker 3: and so people think I've actually been around holiday and

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Speaker 3: actually I have worked my guts out. I worked like

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Speaker 3: fifteen to eighteen hour days. But I will come back.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, But what does it mean to you to see

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Speaker 2: that kind of response from people across the Pacific and

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Speaker 2: a range of Pacific.

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Speaker 3: Company Look, and it means a lot. And it's a privilege.

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Speaker 3: And it's the fact that one news gets played and

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Speaker 3: I don't know twenty three different on twenty three plus

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Speaker 3: different broadcasters across the Pacific, and it's important. It's important

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Speaker 3: that they see Pacific voices elevated and voices that matter

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Speaker 3: and that count and that you know, are important. And

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Speaker 3: so yeah, it means a lot to me. But also

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Speaker 3: seeing young people and you know, trained a lot of

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Speaker 3: young journalists across specific as well. Yeah, and so to

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Speaker 3: see that coming up behind me just makes me feel

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Speaker 3: really happy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm so pleased. Well, look, congratulations, I'll be brave.

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Speaker 2: I think we can join together. And urging our audience

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Speaker 2: to go and buy by by by three copies to

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Speaker 2: yourself every special occasion. But thank you so much and

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Speaker 2: congratulations and thank you for being brave and telling your

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Speaker 2: story is Yeah, we really appreciate it.

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Speaker 1: Thank you.

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Speaker 2: That is Barbara Triever. She is of course the one

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Speaker 2: news correspondent for the one New Specific Correspondent and her

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Speaker 2: new book is Be Brave. The details will be up

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Speaker 2: on the News Talks. He'd be website for.

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Speaker 1: More from Saturday Morning with Jack Tame. Listen live to

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Speaker 1: News Talks he'd be from nine am Saturday, or follow

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Speaker 1: the podcast on iHeartRadio