1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:01,480 Speaker 1: A bit of a thing has been going on in 2 00:00:01,520 --> 00:00:05,800 Speaker 1: Parliament today. Speaker Jerry Brownly has banned and now unbanned 3 00:00:05,840 --> 00:00:09,160 Speaker 1: an investigative journalist from covering the National Apology to Survivors 4 00:00:09,160 --> 00:00:12,600 Speaker 1: of Abuse and State Care at Parliament tomorrow. Chap's name 5 00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:16,080 Speaker 1: is Aaron Smailee works for Newsroom. He had an application 6 00:00:16,160 --> 00:00:19,000 Speaker 1: for accreditation to the event, initially denied by the Speaker 7 00:00:19,280 --> 00:00:21,480 Speaker 1: apparently there were some issues to do with his conduct 8 00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:24,600 Speaker 1: on a prior occasion, but then after some protests by 9 00:00:24,600 --> 00:00:28,200 Speaker 1: the Parliamentary Press Gallery and Newsroom the employer, the application 10 00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:30,240 Speaker 1: will now be approved Now. Mark Jennings is the co 11 00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:33,720 Speaker 1: editor of Newsroom and with us Now ho Mark, Yeah, Hi, 12 00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:36,800 Speaker 1: did Jerry explain this is a speaker? Did Jerry explain 13 00:00:36,840 --> 00:00:38,080 Speaker 1: to you why he's unbanned? 14 00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:45,920 Speaker 2: Erin Ah, he did, but we agreed to a confidential 15 00:00:46,040 --> 00:00:50,800 Speaker 2: discussion with him. But essentially, yes, it does relate to 16 00:00:51,680 --> 00:00:57,760 Speaker 2: what he thought was Aaron's conduct at some previous media conferences. 17 00:00:58,440 --> 00:01:03,240 Speaker 2: Now he think at this point Jerry Brownie had probably 18 00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:06,240 Speaker 2: not really had the full story. He hadn't witnessed any 19 00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:09,920 Speaker 2: of it himselves, hadn't reviewed any tapes. He was going 20 00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:13,640 Speaker 2: on to say, of other people. And once we had 21 00:01:13,640 --> 00:01:17,000 Speaker 2: had to talk to him, Once he had I guess, 22 00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:22,680 Speaker 2: experienced a whole lot of pressure from other people, organizations, etc. 23 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:25,559 Speaker 2: He decided to change his mind. 24 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:29,240 Speaker 1: So let me get this right, Max. So he's disgusted 25 00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:30,920 Speaker 1: with you, but he's asked you not to tell us 26 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:33,840 Speaker 1: anything about the discussion. Is that right? 27 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:35,679 Speaker 2: Yeah? That's right. 28 00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:38,080 Speaker 1: Well that suggests to me that he's embarrassed by this, 29 00:01:38,280 --> 00:01:38,440 Speaker 1: is he? 30 00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:44,800 Speaker 2: Well, Jerry is Jerry. I don't know whether there is embarrassed, 31 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:48,560 Speaker 2: you know, by anything, but I think it's you know, 32 00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:53,120 Speaker 2: the issue is when you know, he gets told something 33 00:01:53,240 --> 00:01:57,040 Speaker 2: by people in the beehive. You know, he's a busy man. 34 00:01:57,120 --> 00:01:58,560 Speaker 2: He can't check about himself. 35 00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:07,320 Speaker 1: But I mean, here's the thing. Freedom of the press 36 00:02:07,400 --> 00:02:09,839 Speaker 1: is a really important part of democracy, right. I don't 37 00:02:09,880 --> 00:02:12,040 Speaker 1: want to like catastrophize the situation or anything, but it's 38 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:14,359 Speaker 1: really important. And if you're going to deny the accreditation 39 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:19,040 Speaker 1: to arguably one of the most experienced journalists in this field, 40 00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:20,919 Speaker 1: you've got to have more grounds than just listening to 41 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:22,480 Speaker 1: the ninth floor having a winge about it. 42 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:28,480 Speaker 2: Surely I totally agree you do. And this, you know, 43 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:33,040 Speaker 2: this has not been good for journalism or freedom of 44 00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:36,440 Speaker 2: speech or any of those things. And it's it's really 45 00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:39,600 Speaker 2: good that it's been turned around because Aaron has basically 46 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:42,040 Speaker 2: led the way on the story for a long time. 47 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:43,680 Speaker 2: He is the expert on it. 48 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:48,000 Speaker 1: So does this call into question the speaker's independence, as 49 00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:50,000 Speaker 1: in like he's not doing the bidding of his own 50 00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:50,600 Speaker 1: party here? 51 00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:58,400 Speaker 2: Look, I wouldn't. I wouldn't say that, but I think 52 00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:03,120 Speaker 2: it just required thought than perhaps he gave it in 53 00:03:03,160 --> 00:03:03,840 Speaker 2: the first place. 54 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:08,480 Speaker 1: Okay, Now, did Aaron maybe push it a little bit 55 00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:11,919 Speaker 1: far with Karen Shaw? I haven't heard this, so I'm 56 00:03:11,919 --> 00:03:14,480 Speaker 1: relying doing exactly the same thing as Jerry are relying 57 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:16,440 Speaker 1: entirely on you here. Did he push it a. 58 00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:22,080 Speaker 2: Bit Well, look, I wouldn't think. I don't think so, 59 00:03:22,320 --> 00:03:28,600 Speaker 2: to be honest, Aaron, Look, his questioning was quite aggressive 60 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:34,520 Speaker 2: and unforgiving. I think there are plenty of ministers that 61 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:37,640 Speaker 2: you know, if it had been Winston or someone like that, 62 00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:39,720 Speaker 2: that would have just been water off a duck's back. 63 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:43,880 Speaker 2: Maybe Karen is a little bit more sensitive to this. 64 00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:49,520 Speaker 2: There was one particular thing that I guess slightly upset Aaron, 65 00:03:49,720 --> 00:03:54,560 Speaker 2: and it was when act referenced in terms of boot 66 00:03:54,560 --> 00:03:59,280 Speaker 2: camps referenced the Mari Battalion, and I think that really 67 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:03,200 Speaker 2: upset Erin because you know, the Murray Battalion has a 68 00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:06,680 Speaker 2: special place in our history and to sort of link 69 00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:10,360 Speaker 2: it with boot camps that was not a good call 70 00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:14,400 Speaker 2: by act and that was what kind of led to 71 00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:18,160 Speaker 2: if you like emotions rising, Okay. 72 00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:20,240 Speaker 1: Mark, thank you for talking to us. I really appreciate 73 00:04:20,279 --> 00:04:22,120 Speaker 1: your time. I know you're a busy man dealing with 74 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:25,200 Speaker 1: a lot today. That's Mark Jennings, Newsroom co editor. For 75 00:04:25,320 --> 00:04:28,919 Speaker 1: more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to news Talks. 76 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:32,120 Speaker 1: It'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast 77 00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:33,200 Speaker 1: on iHeartRadio.