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Speaker 1: So the Labour Party picked the very nice spot of

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Speaker 1: the Isaac Theater in Christich to have their annual gab fest.

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Speaker 1: Orcus has gone. The Dunedin Hospital has originally promised us

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Speaker 1: back in the tobacco tax break on heated products is canceled.

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Speaker 1: Bit of a sledge at the government as well. Look

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Speaker 1: back at our history. We excel when we bring people

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Speaker 1: together rather than drive them apart as this government seems

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Speaker 1: to want to do.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 1: The former Labour leader Andrew Little is with us. Very

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Speaker 1: good morning to you.

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Speaker 2: Good morning Mike.

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Speaker 1: What do you make of it? What's the vibe?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? I think I think, you know, for a party

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Speaker 2: in the first year in opposition after a pretty slammed

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Speaker 2: sort of result last year, they felt it together. Well

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Speaker 2: during the year it's been very disciplined. I know. If

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Speaker 2: they've acknowledged they got wrong, well, we got wrong. In government.

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Speaker 2: Things have to change, and I guess this was about

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Speaker 2: secking out what the change starts to look like.

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Speaker 1: What's happened with Orcust given it started with you and

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Speaker 1: it's sort of been this mysterious pillar two thing and

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Speaker 1: we'll have a think in a chat and will work

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Speaker 1: something out. And then suddenly it's gone.

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Speaker 2: What happened there, Well, good question, and I think I

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Speaker 2: mean the reality about it is the species that they

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Speaker 2: talked about not sewning up to a nuclear sort of

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Speaker 2: war things, Well, the reality is we were never signed

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Speaker 2: up to the nuclear propelled submarines part of it, and

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Speaker 2: of all the things in aucus, that's the one thing

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Speaker 2: that is likely to collapse because it's always needed the

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Speaker 2: approval of US Congress. It hasn't got that in the

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Speaker 2: last two and a half years, it's unlikely to get

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Speaker 2: it now for some time, so they'll probably go. The

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Speaker 2: other part of it was draining with our long standing

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Speaker 2: traditional partners UK, Australia and the US on developing new

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Speaker 2: defense technology for stuff that's sort of used to us,

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Speaker 2: like remote maritime patrolling, that sort of thing. Saying what

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Speaker 2: I'm going to sign up to it is kind of

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Speaker 2: one thing. I think the lost opportunity there in the

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Speaker 2: weekend was to say we understand that our natural security

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Speaker 2: and defense needs our changing because the situation is changing,

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Speaker 2: and this is what it looks like. Because the reality

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Speaker 2: is this current government having promised, for example, a defense

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Speaker 2: Capability Plan, which is the list of new investments back

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Speaker 2: in June then to September, we still don't have it,

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Speaker 2: So there's a bit of dinnering going on later. Could

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Speaker 2: have distinguished themselves in that respect exactly.

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Speaker 1: So what are we saying with the Pillar two thing

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Speaker 1: that we don't want to be closer to America and

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Speaker 1: we like China, or we're not saying that.

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Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't quite know what the post

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Speaker 2: position is that in ours that we're not signing up

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Speaker 2: for August August. I don't know what that means in practice,

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Speaker 2: because those three partners are partners who will get most

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Speaker 2: of our defense technology from that. Anyway, we'll always get

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Speaker 2: it from them, So we're not signing up to that.

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Speaker 2: We still have to have a relationship with what we're

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Speaker 2: going to and still need new defendicate. So I suppose

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Speaker 2: what I guess would have hoped for is a bit

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Speaker 2: of an indication about how we're going to manage those

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Speaker 2: relationships in the future.

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Speaker 1: Speaking of maritime surveillance, as an next Minister of Defense,

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Speaker 1: what do you make of the man and the revelation

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Speaker 1: that no one seems to know how to work an autopilot?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it seems to be common in the Maritimes sectors

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Speaker 2: doubt of Teddy, But yeah, it's disappointing to see. I mean,

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Speaker 2: that was you know that was. It displays an important

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Speaker 2: role for our Navy and our relationship with South Pacific country.

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Speaker 2: It's really disappointing to see what happened. I think due

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Speaker 2: to Collins is right to express that disappointment. I guess

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Speaker 2: it's the next thing is to see who's going to

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Speaker 2: be held responsible for it with the next stage of

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Speaker 2: the court of inquiry.

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Speaker 1: Exactly good to talk to you appreciate it, Andrew Little,

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Speaker 1: former labor leader, former defense industry of course. Ten minutes

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Speaker 1: past seven. Yeah, the August thing's weird. I just don't

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Speaker 1: understand it. It seems to have come from nowhere. There

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Speaker 1: seems to be no logical explanation for it. We supposedly

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Speaker 1: didn't know anything about it. For more from the Mic

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Speaker 1: Asking Breakfast, listen live to news talks. It'd be from

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Speaker 1: six am weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.