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Speaker 1: Kiyota.

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Speaker 2: I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a

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Speaker 2: daily podcast presented by the.

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Speaker 3: New Zealand Herald.

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Speaker 2: It's about to become cheaper and easier to get your

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Speaker 2: driver's license in New Zealand. Changes include scrapping the second

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Speaker 2: practical test, a longer twelve month learner period for under

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Speaker 2: twenty fives, new restricted periods.

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Speaker 4: And an expanded zero alcohol rule for all learnering restricted drivers,

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Speaker 4: regardless of your age. Transport Minister Chris Bishop has said

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Speaker 4: the aim is to make licensing more efficient and affordable.

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Speaker 4: The new system will take effect from the end of

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Speaker 4: January next year, but will the first major change to

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Speaker 4: the system in fifteen years.

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Speaker 2: Make our roads safer? Today on the Front Page, AA

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Speaker 2: Road Safety Manager Dylan Thompson is with us to dive

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Speaker 2: into the details of this new system. First off, Dylan,

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Speaker 2: this announcement. What was your first reaction.

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Speaker 1: I think that it's a pretty well balanced mix of

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Speaker 1: changes from the government. They have been really focused on

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Speaker 1: wanting to reduce costs and make it a bit cheaper

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Speaker 1: and easier for people to get to a full license.

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Speaker 1: The AA we were really focused on trying to make

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Speaker 1: sure those changes were actually going to lead to better prepared,

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Speaker 1: safer young drivers, and so we're really pleased that there

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Speaker 1: are some measures in there that, yes, we're going to

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Speaker 1: not have a full license test anymore, but we're actually

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Speaker 1: going to hopefully encourage more training and more practice amongst

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Speaker 1: learner drivers, and we're really pleased to see that.

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Speaker 4: Now.

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Speaker 2: We've known that this has been in the works for

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Speaker 2: a while now, since last year or something. I think

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Speaker 2: what's changed between now and.

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Speaker 1: Then, Well, the original proposal didn't have any changes around

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Speaker 1: the length of period for learner drivers, and so the

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Speaker 1: original proposal was going to have no full license test,

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Speaker 1: the learner period would have stayed much as it was,

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Speaker 1: and some tougher consequences for people on a restricted license

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Speaker 1: who broke the rules. And what we've seen change is

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Speaker 1: we're still not going to have the full license test,

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Speaker 1: but the learner period is now going to be twelve

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Speaker 1: months as a default instead of six. Unless learner drivers

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Speaker 1: complete a certain amount of supervised practice hours or some

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Speaker 1: professional training, they can shorten that learner period. And also

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Speaker 1: they've kind of simplified the way they were going to

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Speaker 1: look at penalties for people on a restrict license breaking

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Speaker 1: the rules and we think what they've come up with,

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Speaker 1: which is essentially, if you're on a restricted license and

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Speaker 1: you commit a driving offense that comes with de merit points,

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Speaker 1: it'll add six months to your restricted period. That is

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Speaker 1: a much simpler way of doing it than what they

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Speaker 1: had proposed before, which was pretty complicated.

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Speaker 2: How has getting your license changed over the years.

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Speaker 1: Well, I mean, if we go back a few decades now,

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Speaker 1: we just had one test and it was done by

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Speaker 1: the police or traffic cops, and it was very, very

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Speaker 1: quick and basic. In many cases, you know, people can

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Speaker 1: talk to some older family members and they might tell

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Speaker 1: a story of going to the police station, getting in

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Speaker 1: the car and spending maybe ten minutes doing a short

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Speaker 1: drive before somebody said that's it, good enough and you've

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Speaker 1: got your license. Then back in twenty eleven we saw

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Speaker 1: some quite significant changes. The minimum driving age went up

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Speaker 1: from fifteen to sixteen, and the restricted test got made

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Speaker 1: quite a bit tougher, more challenging, and since then, this

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Speaker 1: is really the next really significant bunch of changes in

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Speaker 1: New Zealand's driver licensing history. So hopefully we're kind of

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Speaker 1: catching up with the rest of the world because the

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Speaker 1: research that the AA's done while this issue has been

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Speaker 1: going on, showed that it's been quicker and easier to

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Speaker 1: get a license in New Zealand than pretty much any

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Speaker 1: other country.

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Speaker 2: I laughed at the first bit about older family members,

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Speaker 2: because there was always this thing in our family. Apparently

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Speaker 2: my nana got her license because her family knew the

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Speaker 2: police officer in her town and they baked him some

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Speaker 2: like cookies or something, and it really it showed you

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Speaker 2: would not want to be in a car with that woman.

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Speaker 2: Let me tell you so, you mentioned pricing there a

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Speaker 2: little bit. Currently, the cost of getting your Class one

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Speaker 2: license is three hundred and sixty two dollars fifty and

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Speaker 2: under the new system you're saving around eighty dollars. Is

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Speaker 2: there any information to suggest that the fee itself and

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Speaker 2: how expensive it is to get your license is actually

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Speaker 2: impeding people from getting their full license.

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Speaker 1: Well, I think there's a little bit more to it

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Speaker 1: than just that financial fee, because certainly we've got a

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Speaker 1: bit of a problem in New Zealand with people getting

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Speaker 1: to their restricted license and then not progressing beyond that,

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Speaker 1: never going on to a full license. We've had a

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Speaker 1: substantial number of drivers that have just sat there and

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Speaker 1: never gone onto the full test. The financial cost is

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Speaker 1: a part of that, where nobody likes to spend money

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Speaker 1: if they don't have to. But I think the other

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Speaker 1: thing is the cost and time has probably been a

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Speaker 1: bigger impact in certain parts of the country, in particular

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Speaker 1: some of the more provincial or remote areas. To get

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Speaker 1: to the location to do that full test may take

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Speaker 1: somebody an hour or two driving each way. That can

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Speaker 1: mean when people are a bit older and maybe they're working,

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Speaker 1: that they might have to look at taking a day

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Speaker 1: off work to travel to the location to do the test,

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Speaker 1: do the test, hopefully pass it, and then drive home.

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Speaker 1: And of course if they didn't pass, then there was

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Speaker 1: going to need to be a second day. So I

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Speaker 1: think the financial cost is something that you know for

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Speaker 1: some people, especially if you're a household that is really

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Speaker 1: really struggling to pay the bills as it is, that

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Speaker 1: is a small impact financially that eighty dollars, But the

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Speaker 1: time factor might be a bigger one for a bunch

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Speaker 1: of people that they just found it a hassle that

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Speaker 1: they weren't more invaded enough to overcome to get that

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Speaker 1: full test done.

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Speaker 5: The reality is younger drivers are just risk out on

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Speaker 5: the roads and I think people kind of intuitively understand that,

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Speaker 5: and so you know that the changes we've made are

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Speaker 5: calibrated towards that risk profile and making sure that Essentially

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Speaker 5: what we're doing is we're shifting the assessment and shifting

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Speaker 5: the work that's required to get your license away from

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Speaker 5: where you know how to drive, and it's just about

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Speaker 5: you know, getting the test or getting the assessment done,

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Speaker 5: and shifting it down towards the bit where it makes

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Speaker 5: the biggest difference, which is when you're initially learning.

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Speaker 2: How to drive. There will also be an option for

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Speaker 2: under twenty fives to reduce their twelve months learner period

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Speaker 2: back to six months you mentioned before by recording those

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Speaker 2: practice hours or completing an approved practical course. What is

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Speaker 2: stopping people from fudging these numbers.

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Speaker 1: The way it's done most places we've looked at is

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Speaker 1: with an app, and the way it kind of works

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Speaker 1: is the driver has the app on their phone. Whoever

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Speaker 1: are going to be their supervisors, you know, mom, dad,

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Speaker 1: and uncle and auntie your grandparent, they also need to

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Speaker 1: have that app. And when you are going to record

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Speaker 1: some practice time, you push a button saying I'm going

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Speaker 1: to start a practice drive. A message gets sent to

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Speaker 1: the supervising driver and they have to approve that, and

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Speaker 1: then the app uses GPS to actually record, and it

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Speaker 1: can tell that the phone is in motion and it's

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Speaker 1: in the car, and so it'll keep a track of

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Speaker 1: how much time you clock up until that drive finishes.

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Speaker 1: So that's one way to avoid people just sitting at

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Speaker 1: home and saying I'm going to look to clock up

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Speaker 1: an hour or two while I'm sitting here watching a movie.

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Speaker 1: So you can't do that. And they also tend to

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Speaker 1: just have a bit of tech running in the background,

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Speaker 1: so they have an idea of how long it normally

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Speaker 1: takes people to accumulate a certain amount of hours, and

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Speaker 1: they can see your history. So if somebody has done

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Speaker 1: very little supervised practice hours in the app and then

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Speaker 1: all of a sudden it suddenly takes off and they

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Speaker 1: get up to what they need to in a very

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Speaker 1: short space of time, that would raise some flags, and

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Speaker 1: then the authorities normally look to get in touch ask

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Speaker 1: a few questions just to try and check and decide

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Speaker 1: if they think you've genuinely done that time. So the

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Speaker 1: systems work to try and make it hard for people

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Speaker 1: to cheat them. There's never any system that is one

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Speaker 1: hundred percent fool proof, but it's a lot better than

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Speaker 1: what we've got right now, where you don't actually have

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Speaker 1: to do anything. You could get your learn a license,

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Speaker 1: do no practice at all and then just give it

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Speaker 1: a crack, try your restricted test, see how it goes.

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Speaker 1: That'd be a terrible thing to try and do and

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Speaker 1: you're probably going to fail, but this way it at

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Speaker 1: least encourages people to put in more practice.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's not like the old days where you

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Speaker 2: just fill out a log book with I've heard of

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Speaker 2: people doing it with different colored pens with their parent

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Speaker 2: and just signing them off. And by that, I mean

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Speaker 2: that sounds like something I did in twenty years ago.

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Speaker 1: What because Australia has been doing this for quite some time,

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Speaker 1: so New Zealand is catching up and there is still

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Speaker 1: some paper log book options available. What's the evidence? And

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Speaker 1: the research looking at this shows though that even in

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Speaker 1: cases where people are fudging a little bit, they're still

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Speaker 1: doing more practice than they would have done if there

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Speaker 1: was no requirements. So you know, even if somebody didn't

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Speaker 1: actually quite genuinely get to that eighty hours or one

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Speaker 1: hundred hour target or whatever it is, they actually got

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Speaker 1: quite close, and without it they were doing a lot less.

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Speaker 1: So it tends to just encourage more practice than what

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Speaker 1: was happening before.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So, with sixteen year old Chelsea in mind, I

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Speaker 2: actually wrote to the minister asking this question about these

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Speaker 2: practice hours, and they wrote back saying the Director of

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Speaker 2: Land Transport will set the minimum number of hours with

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Speaker 2: a maximum of sixty hours, and the process for recording them,

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Speaker 2: and this will be communicated publicly before the new system

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Speaker 2: comes into effect, of course in January next year. So

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Speaker 2: we yet to know the exact details, but at least

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Speaker 2: we know that it's a maximum of sixty hours, I suppose, yea.

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Speaker 1: And when we have looked at this at the AA,

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Speaker 1: we think sixty hours is a good number. Most overseasurisdictions

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Speaker 1: have targets between sixty up to one hundred and twenty hours,

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Speaker 1: and the evidence shows that if you get to that

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Speaker 1: sixty hour level, generally there's been about a ten to

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Speaker 1: twenty percent reduction and crashes involving young drivers after that

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Speaker 1: system has been implemented. Oh wow, And so we think

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Speaker 1: that a conservative estimate that if we bring in that

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Speaker 1: sixty hour level we would be looking at somewhere between

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Speaker 1: ten to twenty less young people losing their lives and

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Speaker 1: crashes every year on our roads.

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Speaker 2: That's incredible. So hopefully people do get the incentive and

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Speaker 2: make their learner learn a period to six months and

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Speaker 2: take that incentive and actually practice before they get onto

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Speaker 2: the road. When the idea was first announced, I saw

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Speaker 2: motorsport legend Greg Murphy. He said the move to remove

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Speaker 2: the full licensed practical test is nothing short of ludicrous.

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Speaker 2: He said there were too many key we drivers who

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Speaker 2: weren't prepared for the road now.

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Speaker 1: Well, when we looked at the original proposal, we said

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Speaker 1: removing the full test was something that we thought could

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Speaker 1: be done in New Zealand if we were going to

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Speaker 1: beefer the requirements around practice and preparation in that learner

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Speaker 1: stage and also have tougher consequences for breaking the rules

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Speaker 1: when you're on your restricted license. So we kind of felt, yep,

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Speaker 1: we can look at not having that second test anymore.

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Speaker 1: But if we want to make sure that we're trying

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Speaker 1: to maintain our safety and in fact what we want

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Speaker 1: to see is actually improving driving and improving road safety,

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Speaker 1: then we need to balance getting rid of that test

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Speaker 1: with more requirements early on, and we've seen the government

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Speaker 1: has made some changes in that regard, so we're really

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Speaker 1: pleased to see that it's not so much about the

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Speaker 1: length of time until you're going from a learners to

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Speaker 1: are restricted. It's about how much practice you do in

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Speaker 1: that time that is the key thing. And we really

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Speaker 1: hope that we're going to see something coming around that

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Speaker 1: sixty hour practice requirement mark. And so if people are

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Speaker 1: wanting to move on to their restricted license quicker than

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Speaker 1: twelve months, they've got that incentive to get out there

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Speaker 1: clock up more hours. And all that means really is

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Speaker 1: that people get more exposure to a wider range of

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Speaker 1: situations on the road, circumstances, different weather conditions, and the

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Speaker 1: more time you clock up, the better prepared you are.

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Speaker 1: And it's just that difference of when you start off

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Speaker 1: as a learner, you are so focused on trying to

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Speaker 1: control the car and what your feet are doing with

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Speaker 1: the pedals, what your hand is doing with the steering

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Speaker 1: will that they often really struggle to focus out looking

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Speaker 1: at what's happening on the road around them. The more

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Speaker 1: time they clocker and the better experience and the better

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Speaker 1: training they get, the more they're able to look out,

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Speaker 1: see things and react quicker, and that's why you see

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Speaker 1: that difference in crash reduction.

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Speaker 3: You know, why is this important to us? Why is

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Speaker 3: it important to me as the Minister for Social Development

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Speaker 3: and Employment. We know that seventy percent of jobs require

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Speaker 3: a driver's license, and so it is really important that

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Speaker 3: we provide assistance and support all the way through for

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Speaker 3: people to get their driver's license.

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Speaker 1: And we've met a wide.

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Speaker 3: Range of people here today who are in that process.

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Speaker 3: So whether it's for them driving legally, we do know

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Speaker 3: that if we can avoid a first contact with the

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Speaker 3: justice system by somebody driving legal, that is fantastic.

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Speaker 2: What impacts could these changes have on New Zealand's road safety.

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Speaker 1: Well, I mean we're really hoping that this is actually

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Speaker 1: going to be a bit of a milestone moment where

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Speaker 1: we start having better prepared young drivers, where we start

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Speaker 1: taking learning to drive more seriously in New Zealand, and

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Speaker 1: the long term effects of that could be huge. If

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Speaker 1: we start right with better training and better culture that

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Speaker 1: just flows on what people tend to learn early on

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Speaker 1: often sticks with them for decades or through their whole

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Speaker 1: driving life. So if we start better and people have

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Speaker 1: more knowledge, better skills, a better culture around. Hey, there's

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Speaker 1: rules here and it's important that we stick to them.

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Speaker 1: Then in another five years, ten years, twenty years, all

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Speaker 1: those drivers are still on the roads and have started

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Speaker 1: off from those habits. As I said before, the crash reductions,

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Speaker 1: we think there's the potential for ten to twenty percent

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Speaker 1: reduction and crashes, which would work out at about ten

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Speaker 1: to twenty lives saved and somewhere around sixty to one

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Speaker 1: hundred and twenty serious injuries amongst young people every year

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Speaker 1: and hundreds of minor crashes.

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Speaker 2: It's funny you say that the stuff that you learn

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Speaker 2: when you first learn to drive, because my driving instructor

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Speaker 2: back in the day, I Reckon I went to after

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Speaker 2: high school and like he would teach me. And I've

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Speaker 2: still got John's voice when I do a parallel park

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Speaker 2: in my ear, I can still hear him. So that's

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Speaker 2: so true, the stuff that and I'm a very good

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Speaker 2: parallel parker by the way, Thanks John.

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Speaker 5: Nice wee.

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Speaker 1: John, I'm the same. You know, it sticks with me

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Speaker 1: different experiences, and that's why, you know, we're also huge

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Speaker 1: advocates of the AA. But anybody that can get some

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Speaker 1: professional training, you know, you do the supervised practice with

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Speaker 1: your kids, but get some professionals involved, because then they

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Speaker 1: get exposed to the expertise, the professional knowledge, a whole

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Speaker 1: bunch of things that mum and dad often don't know

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Speaker 1: or may have forgotten. And so you know, trying to

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Speaker 1: just more practice, ours professional training if you can, makes

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Speaker 1: a huge difference.

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Speaker 2: Oh huge difference, and it didn't end in tears like

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Speaker 2: I did with my dad in the car. Try to

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Speaker 2: learn parallel parking. Thanks so much for joining us.

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Speaker 1: Thank you.

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Speaker 2: That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You

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Speaker 2: can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage

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Speaker 2: at enzidhrald dot co dot nz. The Front Page is

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Speaker 2: hosted and produced by me Chelsea Daniels Caine. Dicky is

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Speaker 2: our studio operator, Richard Martin, our producer and editor, and

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Speaker 2: our executive producer is Jane Ye. Follow the Front Page

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Speaker 2: on the iheartapp or wherever you get your podcasts, and

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Speaker 2: join us next time

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Speaker 4: For another look beyond the headlines.