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Speaker 1: Educators cracking down on AI and school exams. This is

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Speaker 1: the story this morning. NZQA figures show exam breaches are

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Speaker 1: up two hundred and fifty percent since twenty nineteen. We're

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Speaker 1: talking here actually about external assessments with AI, so investigating

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Speaker 1: eight hundred and seventy six breaches last year, about sixty

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Speaker 1: of those down to AI. This is for your take

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Speaker 1: home work though, So as Sociate Professor Doctor Catherine McCollum

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Speaker 1: is with US University of Canterbury this morning to discuss

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Speaker 1: good morning.

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Speaker 2: Good morning.

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Speaker 1: So is it easy to spot because I've talked to

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Speaker 1: teach us about this, easy to spot a student who

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Speaker 1: doesn't normally do well using AI because it stands out

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Speaker 1: like a sore thumb. But the problem is actually when

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Speaker 1: you've got a student who performs well and uses it,

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Speaker 1: they fly.

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Speaker 2: You don't know, Oh yeah exactly. I mean that's the

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Speaker 2: problem with AI. I mean you can't detect AI writing

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Speaker 2: reliably and so any sort of solution that's been given

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Speaker 2: to us, a technological solution is not useful because it

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Speaker 2: cannot pick up AI writing. So yeah, trying to identify

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Speaker 2: students that do well with the technology is you're really

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Speaker 2: going down a road that it's not useful, you're wasting

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Speaker 2: your time.

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Speaker 1: So exams in person, exams that are monitored by people,

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Speaker 1: that's fine, But should we actually be getting kids to

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Speaker 1: write essays if they can use AI and we won't know.

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Speaker 2: Well. I think what we need to do is start

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Speaker 2: thinking about and changing the dialogue a little bit around

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Speaker 2: AI use. We tend to just assume that AI writing

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Speaker 2: is cheating, and you know, the minute that IO is

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Speaker 2: part of the process is a cheating issue, and that's

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Speaker 2: not true. So you can still have assessments writing and

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Speaker 2: essay writing with AI and it still can be an

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Speaker 2: assessment of the students learning and their understanding. It's just

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Speaker 2: we need to change how we assess. We need to

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Speaker 2: change how we are looking at the use of the

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Speaker 2: technology in that space. And so I think that's the

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Speaker 2: key thing is that you know, just because we have

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Speaker 2: AI doesn't mean that it's integrity issue. It's not cheating,

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Speaker 2: But we need to start thinking about how we strike

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Speaker 2: that balance where students can use the technology to scaffold

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Speaker 2: their learning and scaffold them into the writing process.

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Speaker 1: But how do you make sure that they actually understand,

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Speaker 1: you know, what's on the paper well.

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Speaker 2: I mean, this is the whole point of assessment for learning,

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Speaker 2: is that your assess for their understanding and you're building

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Speaker 2: the learning. So it's the problem when we start thinking

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Speaker 2: about assessment as this discrete thing that is summative and

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Speaker 2: that it will identify their work. So if you are

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Speaker 2: looking at it as a process where students are engaging

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Speaker 2: with the technology or without the technology and with you,

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Speaker 2: and as you build up to the writing and demonstrate

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Speaker 2: their learning, and you do it in multiple ways, so

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Speaker 2: it's not just that written assessment work that may be

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Speaker 2: a conversation afterwards, maybe they translated into something else. That's

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Speaker 2: when the learning happens. And so that's the point around

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Speaker 2: the assessment for learning is that it's a process. It's

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Speaker 2: not just the one hit wonder.

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Speaker 1: Okay, all right, so maybe you get yeah, they do

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Speaker 1: the essay, sure, fine, but then they have to do

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Speaker 1: a speech afterwards or a presentation and actually prove that

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Speaker 1: they understand what the hells is that they've Writtian or

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Speaker 1: potentially AI's Writsian. I appreciate your time this morning. Associate

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Speaker 1: Professor Doctor Catherine McCullum, University of Canterbury.

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Speaker 2: For more from early edition with Ryan Bridge.

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