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Speaker 1: And as per usual, Nicola Willis the Finance ministers with us.

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Speaker 1: Hey Nikola, Hi, Heather, Now, when did you find out

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Speaker 1: that the Reserve Bank was paying Adrian all that money?

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Speaker 2: Well? I knew that they had negotiated an exit agreement,

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Speaker 2: and then I learned about the Restraint of Trade provision

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Speaker 2: when the Bank released information about mister Or's departure under

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Speaker 2: the Official Information Act on the eleventh of June.

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Speaker 1: So did you know on the eleventh of June that

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Speaker 1: he was being paid this much money? No?

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Speaker 2: I learnt the amount today, just like everyone else.

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Speaker 1: Should they have told you earlier?

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Speaker 2: That wasn't my expectation because those arrangements were always a

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Speaker 2: negotiation between the Reserve Bank Board and Adrian war and

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Speaker 2: I had been assured that they had done those negotiations

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Speaker 2: in accordance with the terms and conditions in his contract,

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Speaker 2: which had already been agreed when he was reappointed as

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Speaker 2: governor in twenty twenty two.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So I know that it was so. The restraint

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Speaker 1: of trade was in his contract signed yolks ago right, correct?

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Speaker 1: Was the amount that would be paid him in his contract?

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Speaker 2: I don't know, but I have been advised by the

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Speaker 2: Bank that it was negotiated in accordance with his contract,

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Speaker 2: So I expect that the quantum reflects.

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Speaker 1: That, but not necessarily. I mean they might have upped

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Speaker 1: it or whatever because they found Is this not a

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Speaker 1: question you should be asking them?

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Speaker 2: Well, I have been given confidence that the Reserve Bank

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Speaker 2: have negotiated the exit agreement in accordance with their contractual obligations.

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Speaker 2: It's an employment matter. I am not privy to all

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Speaker 2: of the details of that negotiation, but what they had

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Speaker 2: was that he needed to have a restraine of trade

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Speaker 2: period for six months off set against any incumpnience. That

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Speaker 2: was in the terms because that was that's in the

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Speaker 2: terms and conditions of his appointment as governor. So the

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Speaker 2: amount does reflect that because that when in twenty twenty

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Speaker 2: two that was negotiated. Obviously I wasn't the minister. Then

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Speaker 2: that was under a previous minister. Those were the terms

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Speaker 2: of his contract, but we don't know.

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Speaker 1: We know that the restrainer trade was in there, but

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Speaker 1: we don't know whether the restraint of trade meant that

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Speaker 1: he had to be paid this month, do.

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Speaker 2: We Well, it does seem the right amount, given that

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Speaker 2: it was for a period of six months, so that

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Speaker 2: would be commensurate with the six months of US.

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Speaker 1: Okay, are you comfortable with us?

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Speaker 2: Well, obviously it's a very big number, and so I

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Speaker 2: think I probably had the same reaction to hearing that

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Speaker 2: number as many New Zealand as what. It's a big number,

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Speaker 2: it really is.

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Speaker 1: Now, listen, what is the problem with the electricity market

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Speaker 1: that you guys are trying to fix with the announcement

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Speaker 1: last week. What's the problem.

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Speaker 2: The problem is that when we have a dry year,

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Speaker 2: that is, there isn't enough rain in the hydro lakes,

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Speaker 2: then we run into electricity shortages on the days when

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Speaker 2: there isn't enough solo. It's the shorter to make part

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Speaker 2: for the lack of hydro, it is the lack of

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Speaker 2: firm in capacity in dry years. And how do we

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Speaker 2: motivate people to invest in the electricity generation that leans

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Speaker 2: on gas and oil? When and coal? When in the

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Speaker 2: past the past government said no, no, one hundred percent

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Speaker 2: renewables by twenty thirty. We don't want oil. We know bad?

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Speaker 2: How do we correct? Our job now is to make

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Speaker 2: it very clear to the market that they can have

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Speaker 2: confidence about investing in those assets because New Zealand needs them.

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Speaker 2: But when we have a dry year, we need there

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Speaker 2: to be enough backup gas or cold capacity that we

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Speaker 2: can keep the lights on.

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Speaker 1: Okay, now, Nikola, if there's one thing we've learned about

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Speaker 1: the market in the thirty years since the Bradford Reforms,

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Speaker 1: it's that the market cannot be relied on to generate.

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Speaker 1: So why don't you guys just build the generation or

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Speaker 1: some well.

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Speaker 2: Well, effectively, that's what we're doing by being majority shareholders,

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Speaker 2: but by being majority shareholders and three of the major

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Speaker 2: gen taylors. And what the Frontier report said is in

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Speaker 2: order for those Gen tailors to have access to the

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Speaker 2: capital needed to make these investments in the future, it

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Speaker 2: may require a call on the taxpayer to provide additional

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Speaker 2: investment to keep our equities.

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Speaker 1: So I understand that. I'll tell you what I dos

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Speaker 1: up for that. Are you instructing the companies that you

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Speaker 1: majority own to build more generation?

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Speaker 2: We are requesting that they bring forward proposals to provide

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Speaker 2: dry year Why are.

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Speaker 1: Also because that's the idea behind thermal co is that

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Speaker 1: you just you ring And I think that thermal Co's

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Speaker 1: a nutty idea, but the general the idea behind it

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Speaker 1: is that you build your own generation so why don't

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Speaker 1: you just worry.

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Speaker 2: Yes, this is in the boring detail part of the announcement,

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Speaker 2: but let me step it through for you, which is

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Speaker 2: that we are going to require in future transpower to

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Speaker 2: measure what they think then and lack of capacity for

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Speaker 2: the dry year looks like is at the moment we

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Speaker 2: don't really have reliable measurement of that. And then we've

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Speaker 2: said we will regulate to ensure that amount of capacity

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Speaker 2: is available. Now we're going to work with the sector

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Speaker 2: on what the detail of that regulation looks like. But

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Speaker 2: in the first instance, what the Frontier report said was

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Speaker 2: the first thing you've actually got to do is get

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Speaker 2: rid of this barrier, which is that they're not sure

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Speaker 2: that they can make those investments. What can we getting

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Speaker 2: rid of that barrier? And the Huntley Agreement, which the

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Speaker 2: Commerce Commission approved last week is really important. So that's

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Speaker 2: Huntley having a burg stockpile of coal and an agreement

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Speaker 2: that all of the gentailors will contribute to the cost

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Speaker 2: of keeping that going, and that Genesis will have to

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Speaker 2: sell hedging contracts to people outside of those main entities,

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Speaker 2: which keeps competition going in the market. So we're seeing

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Speaker 2: a response happening in real time, but we are correcting

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Speaker 2: for a massive signal failure by the last government.

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Speaker 1: Have you had any protesters outside your house about Garza?

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Speaker 2: I have not, thank goodness.

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Speaker 1: I worry that.

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Speaker 2: I don't see why my children should have to be

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Speaker 2: included in what is a political protest. There's nothing wrong

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Speaker 2: with coming to the front steps of Parliament. There's lots

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Speaker 2: of places to protest very loudly in New Zealand. You

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Speaker 2: don't need to go outside someone's home.

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Speaker 1: How far how long before that legislation has done so

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Speaker 1: you can so these guys can be hustled off and

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Speaker 1: chucked in jail or whatever.

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Speaker 2: Well, parliament's considering it at the moment, and it's on

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Speaker 2: the legislative agenda, we are progressing it.

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Speaker 1: How far away do you reckon it is if it's

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Speaker 1: in submission phase at the moment.

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Speaker 2: Look, I don't know where it sits on the agenda,

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Speaker 2: but obviously it's something that we intend to pass this term.

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Speaker 2: But here's the thing. Heither there shouldn't have to be

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Speaker 2: a law for people to know what decency and civility is.

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Speaker 2: And it's simply indecent and uncivil to protest in that way.

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Speaker 2: And it says more about the protesters than it does

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Speaker 2: about the issues they're trying to draw attention to.

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Speaker 1: Couldn't agree more. Now, are you teaching you kids to cook?

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Speaker 2: Well, the thing is there's going to be a lot

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Speaker 2: of people my mum's age. You're going to hear this

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Speaker 2: response and think I'm doing a bad job. But the

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Speaker 2: truth is not, really, we're still at the stage of

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Speaker 2: trying to teach them to pick their own towels up

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Speaker 2: and put their clothes away. I think they could probably

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Speaker 2: make a smoothie, a peanut butter sandwich. I know that

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Speaker 2: my twelve year old learned how to make Japanese omelets

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Speaker 2: in his cooking class, and he likes making those. I

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Speaker 2: think my fifteen year old could probably make himself a

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Speaker 2: bowl of pasta oppressed. But that's about it.

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Speaker 1: It's not that bad that we're going to be fine, Nicola.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, the German is catastrophizing this, Nigola, and I'm

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Speaker 1: so to her. It's fine because we've got the Internet

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Speaker 1: and it can step you through it when you need

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Speaker 1: to write.

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Speaker 2: Ah, Look, they'll be absolutely fine. In fact, one of

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Speaker 2: my close university friendships was formed with a man who

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Speaker 2: only knew how to make tune a pastor, and he's

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Speaker 2: so much better for having had his female flatmates teaching

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Speaker 2: a thing or two. And you can learn these things

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Speaker 2: in due courses. It's not rocket science, it's cooking. And yep,

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Speaker 2: my kids could survive on peanut butter sandwiches for a while,

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Speaker 2: I think, And look, Mum's probably taught them a few things.

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Speaker 1: Long good on Granny, Nicola, Thanks very much, Nicola willis

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Speaker 1: the Finance Minister. Heather restraint of trade. Who would employ Adrian?

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Speaker 1: Very good question. For more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive,

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Speaker 1: listen live to news talks. It'd be from four pm weekdays,

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