1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,880 Speaker 1: Big change in Trump's position on Russia and Putin. Overnight, 2 00:00:04,200 --> 00:00:08,600 Speaker 1: He's sending weapons to Ukraine through NATO, threatening more sanctions 3 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:12,799 Speaker 1: for Putin and Taris on Russia's trading partners. I'm disappointed 4 00:00:12,840 --> 00:00:15,880 Speaker 1: in President Important because I thought we would have had 5 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:18,000 Speaker 1: a field two months ago, but it doesn't seem to 6 00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:21,520 Speaker 1: get there. Peter Tesh is former Australian Ambassador to Russia. 7 00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:22,799 Speaker 1: With me tonight, Hi, Peter. 8 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:26,040 Speaker 2: Good day, Ryan. Good to be with you. 9 00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:28,600 Speaker 1: Great to have you here. Is this a game changer? 10 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:29,120 Speaker 1: Do you think? 11 00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:34,560 Speaker 2: I think we should acknowledge that this Oval Office meeting 12 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:38,239 Speaker 2: on Ukraine certainly went better than the last one, But 13 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:41,000 Speaker 2: I don't think it is a game changer. We've seen 14 00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:44,960 Speaker 2: too much fickleness in US policy to think that this 15 00:00:45,159 --> 00:00:49,120 Speaker 2: marks a real sea change. But it is an important signal, 16 00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:52,400 Speaker 2: and a very welcome signal to Ukraine and NATO that 17 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:57,000 Speaker 2: the US won't hinder their efforts to defend Ukraine at 18 00:00:57,040 --> 00:01:00,320 Speaker 2: their own expense. But it is certainly not the kind 19 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:03,000 Speaker 2: of knockout blow that I think we need after three 20 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:06,120 Speaker 2: and a half years of Putin's brutal war of choice? 21 00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:10,560 Speaker 1: Does Trump risk looking like the boy who cried Wolfare. 22 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:15,760 Speaker 1: He has threatened the secondary tariffs previously and hasn't followed through. 23 00:01:18,360 --> 00:01:21,440 Speaker 2: Well, We've seen reports that the Moscow stock exchange rose 24 00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:25,600 Speaker 2: because the feared economic stick has turned out for now 25 00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:30,480 Speaker 2: at least to be a twig secondary tariffs in fifty days. 26 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:33,880 Speaker 2: That's a very long time. It's a signal to Russia, 27 00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:39,520 Speaker 2: look at where your vulnerabilities are, staunch those and get ready. 28 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:42,800 Speaker 2: But I do think that there is a little bit 29 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:47,360 Speaker 2: more backing now in the form of the bipartisan draft 30 00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:52,000 Speaker 2: in the US Senate for imposing more severe sanctions on Russia. 31 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:56,240 Speaker 2: There is no doubt that the US could do more 32 00:01:56,280 --> 00:02:01,400 Speaker 2: to hurt Russia. So far we haven't seen taking action 33 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:05,360 Speaker 2: that really increases the pressure on Russia to halt the 34 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:10,040 Speaker 2: war that Putin started. But look, this is really an 35 00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:14,000 Speaker 2: important moment for Ukraine. It is the equipping of Ukraine 36 00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:18,840 Speaker 2: with capabilities it desperately needs to defend itself against the 37 00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:24,880 Speaker 2: increasing airborne assault missiles, drones, glide bombs that Putin is 38 00:02:24,919 --> 00:02:30,520 Speaker 2: directing at civilian infrastructure and civilians throughout Ukraine. But precisely 39 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:34,280 Speaker 2: how the Kremlin will interpret this remains to be seen. 40 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:37,639 Speaker 1: Yeah, so that's obviously up for debate is how seriously 41 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:41,680 Speaker 1: Russia will take it. But why now from Trump? Why 42 00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:46,200 Speaker 1: after six months in office is he taking such an interest. 43 00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:51,200 Speaker 2: Well, that's the critical thing. I mean, tens of thousands 44 00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:54,520 Speaker 2: of Ukrainian and indeed Russian lives might have been saved 45 00:02:54,520 --> 00:02:58,320 Speaker 2: if Trump had been less credulous about Putin and if 46 00:02:58,360 --> 00:03:02,400 Speaker 2: his envoys hadn't merely been parroting Kremlin talking points for 47 00:03:02,440 --> 00:03:05,200 Speaker 2: the last six months. So if I reflect on this 48 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:09,320 Speaker 2: from the perspective of my politically incorrect schoolboy days in 49 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:11,560 Speaker 2: Brisbane forty five years ago, it's a bit of a 50 00:03:11,639 --> 00:03:14,840 Speaker 2: duh moment. I mean, have you only just realized now 51 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:17,880 Speaker 2: that Putin has been playing you for a chump? And 52 00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:21,560 Speaker 2: I think this is something that has now dawned on Trump. 53 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:25,359 Speaker 2: He's said, in fact, in his meeting with Mark Uritte, 54 00:03:25,440 --> 00:03:28,440 Speaker 2: the Secretary General of NATO in the Oval Office, four 55 00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:31,120 Speaker 2: times now we thought we had a deal. Well, perhaps 56 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:35,400 Speaker 2: even Trump realizes that after the fourth failed deal, the 57 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:38,920 Speaker 2: other party may not be actually treating in good faith. 58 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:40,920 Speaker 2: So I think he doesn't want to look weak. He 59 00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:43,920 Speaker 2: doesn't look like he's being played for a fool, and 60 00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:47,800 Speaker 2: that is perhaps for a man who really focuses on cards, 61 00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:52,360 Speaker 2: the best card that he has, namely that Putin has 62 00:03:52,480 --> 00:03:56,680 Speaker 2: misjudged the opportunity in much the same way he misjudged 63 00:03:56,680 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 2: his strategic calculation to start the war in the first 64 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:01,280 Speaker 2: place three and a half years ago. 65 00:04:01,480 --> 00:04:04,160 Speaker 1: Peter, appreciate you coming on the show with your analysis tonight. 66 00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:06,840 Speaker 1: Peter Tish, who's a former Australian ambassador to Rush It 67 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:10,640 Speaker 1: for more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to 68 00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:13,800 Speaker 1: news Talks it'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow 69 00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:15,600 Speaker 1: the podcast on iHeartRadio.