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Speaker 1: Very so A b our senior political correspondence with us.

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Speaker 1: Hey Barry, good afternoon. He so, what did you make

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Speaker 1: of all of the clergy coming out in opposition to

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Speaker 1: the Treaty Principals Bill.

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Speaker 2: Well, you know, I mean, I just think the clergy

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Speaker 2: should be clergy, And even though they'll say that, look

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Speaker 2: it was the clergyman of this country that took the

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Speaker 2: treaty around other tribes to be signed in eighteen forty.

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Speaker 2: I really think that politics should be out of the

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Speaker 2: hands of the churches. It should be over to the

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Speaker 2: politicians to do politics and the churches to do the

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Speaker 2: preaching to the congregations. But that's clearly not the case.

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Speaker 2: They don't see it that way. They say that they've

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Speaker 2: got an absolute right to do so. I went through

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Speaker 2: the list of the clergymen that had signed up to

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Speaker 2: this and they are all the senior clergy in the country.

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Speaker 2: There's no doubt about that. But look, this is a

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Speaker 2: very difficult situation for this government, there's no doubt about that.

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Speaker 2: But this is the problem with coalition politics that Christopher

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Speaker 2: Luxen to form a government had to agree to some

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Speaker 2: compromise with David Seymour, who would like a referendum on

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Speaker 2: the Treaty Principals Bill, which the draft form went to

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Speaker 2: Cabinet today. But you know more than that, Luxon wasn't

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Speaker 2: prepared to prepared to go along with and to me,

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Speaker 2: as I've said right from the very start, this is

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Speaker 2: an absolute waste of parliamentary time taxed by his money.

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Speaker 2: Because the bill will be debated in November and Parliament

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Speaker 2: to its first reading, it will then go to a

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Speaker 2: select committee. There is a way of stopping it from

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Speaker 2: going to a select committee, but obviously they're not going

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Speaker 2: to do that, so it'll go to a select committee.

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Speaker 2: That's where the real debate will take place, and indeed

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Speaker 2: clergyman will be able to put their point of view there.

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Speaker 2: But I've got to say Chris Luckson, when the draft

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Speaker 2: went before Cabinet today, he wasn't telling us how the

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Speaker 2: discussion went and how what the draft bill looked like.

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Speaker 3: I don't talk or discuss things that are discussed in cabinet.

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Speaker 3: There'll be more to say about that shortly, I'm sure.

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Speaker 3: But our position on this as well, no and well understood,

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Speaker 3: will supported to first reading, but not beyond that. But again,

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Speaker 3: you know, David seam will have more to say about

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Speaker 3: it shortly, as you know, our positions well understood and

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Speaker 3: you know that's that's that's nothing's changed, and that we go.

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Speaker 2: I think David Seema was going to say more to

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Speaker 2: you shortly. Isn't it more than that?

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Speaker 1: Have you heard? Apparently he has made a change to

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Speaker 1: what everybody is expecting. Have you heard this?

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Speaker 2: Oh well, I'm sure right from the beginning that Seymour

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Speaker 2: was going to try and make it more palatable to

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Speaker 2: the general public and more palatable particularly to the National

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Speaker 2: Party and the New Zealand First one.

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Speaker 1: Yes, and he had he had sort of indicated, I

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Speaker 1: mean this is not news. He had indicated that he

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Speaker 1: was going to change Article two, which is the second

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Speaker 1: principle about the chieftainship of the last and that he

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Speaker 1: thought that that may get the NATS across the line.

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Speaker 1: But from judging by lux and the broken record today, no,

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Speaker 1: it's still going to become.

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Speaker 2: Really difficult, you know, I mean Luxon can't now do

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Speaker 2: an about turn because they've painted themselves into a very

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Speaker 2: tight corner. Not only lucks and says New Zealand First,

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Speaker 2: but then it's to be expected from New Zealand first

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Speaker 2: because they don't like David.

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Speaker 1: Semol Yeah okay, yeap, very grown up. Hey, what did

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Speaker 1: you make of this revelation today that about sixty seven

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Speaker 1: Health New Zealand staff were forced to sign gag orders?

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Speaker 2: Well, you know, lot, there's a dictate in the public

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Speaker 2: service that see, public servants are not able or not

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Speaker 2: allowed to speak publicly about what goes on within the

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Speaker 2: public service, and that's by law. But you know these

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Speaker 2: NDA's or non disclosure agreements, they're not They're nothing new.

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Speaker 2: And what it says to me more than anything else,

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Speaker 2: is that the public service and the division between it

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Speaker 2: and the government is great because the government is peering

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Speaker 2: back on the public service. So there's no doubt that

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Speaker 2: there are many public servants working there that would like

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Speaker 2: to pimp on the government. And you know they're not

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Speaker 2: being given the opportunity too, but they will still do

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Speaker 2: it as we've seen.

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Speaker 1: Yes, but why do they need to sign a non

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Speaker 1: disclosure agreement if they already are supposed to be carried Well,

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Speaker 1: they're meant to be.

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Speaker 2: But you know, under the old Official Secrets Act they

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Speaker 2: had to basically anything that left their desk had to

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Speaker 2: be confidential. Then in nineteen eighty two. Of course, the

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Speaker 2: Official Information Act came along, and any one of us

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Speaker 2: can apply to get information out of the government, but

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Speaker 2: we don't have to or they don't have to comply anyway,

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Speaker 2: because they can still release redacted reports, which is what

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Speaker 2: they do invariably, but the Ombudsman is the final arborter

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Speaker 2: of that. So you know, I think this is a

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Speaker 2: storm and a tea cup to be perfectly honest.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Barry, thank you appreciate it. That's very supersing your

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Speaker 1: political correspondence.

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