1
00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,360
Speaker 1: The government's released it's Q four action Plan. It's got

2
00:00:03,400 --> 00:00:05,480
Speaker 1: forty three points and it's the ones we're looking at

3
00:00:05,480 --> 00:00:10,280
Speaker 1: this morning. RMA reform and establishing the National Infrastructure Agency,

4
00:00:10,320 --> 00:00:13,039
Speaker 1: which is coming by Christmas. We are promised in this

5
00:00:13,080 --> 00:00:16,560
Speaker 1: action plan. Simon Court is act MP and Under Secretary

6
00:00:16,600 --> 00:00:20,680
Speaker 1: to the Minister responsible for RMA reform and for Infrastructure.

7
00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:24,599
Speaker 1: Simon good morning, Good morning, Ryan, thanks for being with me.

8
00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:28,440
Speaker 1: The Infrastructure Agency that we want to set up by Christmas.

9
00:00:28,480 --> 00:00:30,120
Speaker 1: Have you got any idea on what it's going to

10
00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:32,160
Speaker 1: cost us?

11
00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:35,680
Speaker 2: No, but it's the vital that we do have an

12
00:00:35,680 --> 00:00:39,879
Speaker 2: agency that can coordinate funding from the private sector that

13
00:00:39,920 --> 00:00:44,320
Speaker 2: we need to put it into the PPP projects, and

14
00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:48,640
Speaker 2: that has the expertise, say to accept and review market

15
00:00:48,720 --> 00:00:51,920
Speaker 2: lead proposals when the private sector has a really really

16
00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:56,040
Speaker 2: good idea and they want to take it to government. Say,

17
00:00:56,120 --> 00:00:58,560
Speaker 2: for example, when I was in Texas in twenty twenty two,

18
00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:02,440
Speaker 2: a Spanish consortium said, look, we've provided a proposal to

19
00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:06,120
Speaker 2: upgrade State Highway one and upgrade the Northern Express Busway

20
00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:08,840
Speaker 2: at no cost to the taxpayer. All we wanted was

21
00:01:08,840 --> 00:01:11,040
Speaker 2: a fifty year right to operate it. There was no

22
00:01:11,080 --> 00:01:14,600
Speaker 2: one to receive that proposal. So the National Infrastructure Agency

23
00:01:14,640 --> 00:01:17,120
Speaker 2: is intended to be the front door for really really

24
00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:21,240
Speaker 2: good ideas and the coordinator between private and institutional finance

25
00:01:21,520 --> 00:01:23,080
Speaker 2: and the big profit private partnership.

26
00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:26,920
Speaker 1: Had any offers so far? Did you've announced that it's coming.

27
00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:31,240
Speaker 2: Well, what we heard at the Building Nations conference, which

28
00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:33,720
Speaker 2: is New Zealand's big infrastructure conference about a month ago,

29
00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:40,000
Speaker 2: was it this massive desire to participate in these big

30
00:01:40,120 --> 00:01:42,640
Speaker 2: public private partnership projects. But you haven't had challenge.

31
00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:46,240
Speaker 1: You haven't had any specific offers that you're aware of

32
00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:49,040
Speaker 1: the government has any specific offers from interested parties.

33
00:01:50,080 --> 00:01:52,360
Speaker 2: I'm aware that there are a number of parties that

34
00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:55,560
Speaker 2: are lining up to make submissions when we've got the

35
00:01:55,640 --> 00:01:57,120
Speaker 2: National Infrastructure Agency open.

36
00:01:57,320 --> 00:01:59,920
Speaker 1: Do you know how many or what their names are?

37
00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:05,000
Speaker 2: And I certainly don't. And that's the that's one of

38
00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:08,040
Speaker 2: the challenges is maintaining privty and if people have really

39
00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:10,600
Speaker 2: really good ideas, we don't want them to be in

40
00:02:10,639 --> 00:02:13,160
Speaker 2: a situation where they present their folder of good ideas

41
00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:14,840
Speaker 2: to government and then it gets shopped around all the

42
00:02:14,919 --> 00:02:18,440
Speaker 2: competitors or or treated in a way that underds.

43
00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:21,760
Speaker 1: Have you guys spoken to Labor about the establishment of

44
00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:23,520
Speaker 1: this year. Have you have you guys been in contact

45
00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:26,080
Speaker 1: with Barbi Edmonds et cetera, because it was all it

46
00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:28,160
Speaker 1: all needed to be come by our according to the

47
00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:29,480
Speaker 1: Expert Advisory Panel.

48
00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:35,800
Speaker 2: Well, there is cross party support for delivering infrastructure. Different

49
00:02:36,200 --> 00:02:40,000
Speaker 2: political parties have different priorities, but the coalition's priority is

50
00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:44,600
Speaker 2: to get major roads of national significance consented and built totally.

51
00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:47,000
Speaker 1: And I get that. But the problem is you guys

52
00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:49,200
Speaker 1: start it, they stop it. The next one starts that,

53
00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:51,679
Speaker 1: they stop it. So you need to be an agreeance.

54
00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:53,560
Speaker 1: Have you guys spoken to Labor or not.

55
00:02:55,080 --> 00:02:57,639
Speaker 2: Well, I've certainly spoken to people at Barbara Edmonds on

56
00:02:57,639 --> 00:03:00,560
Speaker 2: a regular basis. But here's the challenge for lay Ryan.

57
00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:04,799
Speaker 2: They need to grow up. In countries like Australia, there

58
00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:07,680
Speaker 2: is no there is no dispute where the roads are

59
00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:10,920
Speaker 2: part of the nation's infrastructure mix. For some reason, the

60
00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:12,679
Speaker 2: left wing in New Zealand still want to argue about

61
00:03:12,680 --> 00:03:14,960
Speaker 2: where the roads are. A good idea. They just need

62
00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:16,320
Speaker 2: to grow up and get with the pronoun.

63
00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:19,240
Speaker 1: I think everybody needs to grow up. Really, let's talk

64
00:03:19,240 --> 00:03:22,919
Speaker 1: about Dunedin Hospital there. Why don't we have a privately

65
00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:24,280
Speaker 1: owned hospital belt.

66
00:03:26,440 --> 00:03:29,400
Speaker 2: Well, that's a really good question. I have a delegation

67
00:03:29,639 --> 00:03:33,440
Speaker 2: to look into the key options and to develop policy

68
00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:36,080
Speaker 2: to make it much easier for those kind of projects

69
00:03:36,120 --> 00:03:39,320
Speaker 2: to go ahead with private capital. At the moment, the

70
00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:43,080
Speaker 2: government is really short of money. But public private partnerships

71
00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:47,000
Speaker 2: are action. They're not just to get more money, they're

72
00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:50,480
Speaker 2: actually to get better whole of life maintenance outcomes, bring

73
00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:51,480
Speaker 2: more innovation, and.

74
00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:54,520
Speaker 1: There's private companies that do this. They build health care facilities,

75
00:03:54,560 --> 00:03:57,200
Speaker 1: they build hospitals, and then we rent them back. Would

76
00:03:57,240 --> 00:04:01,240
Speaker 1: you like to see that in some way? Like Dneden, Well, I.

77
00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:03,360
Speaker 2: Think that's one of the options that should be on

78
00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:06,880
Speaker 2: the table. Is necessarily well, it may not necessarily apply

79
00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:09,600
Speaker 2: to to need, but it certainly should in the health

80
00:04:09,880 --> 00:04:13,360
Speaker 2: or folio education, Fortolio Social Services going forward.

81
00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:15,960
Speaker 1: Does nationally agree with that because at the moment they've owned,

82
00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:19,000
Speaker 1: they've limited it to acc super fund, etc.

83
00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:26,160
Speaker 2: Well, we're developing the Public Partnership Policy Model update and

84
00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:28,920
Speaker 2: that's going to be available in the next couple of months,

85
00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:31,400
Speaker 2: and at that point it's going to be quite clear

86
00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:36,440
Speaker 2: there's a simpler pathway for a whole of private investors

87
00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:39,760
Speaker 2: and really good quality builders to get together and provide

88
00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:42,080
Speaker 2: these solutions to government over a longer period of time.

89
00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:45,599
Speaker 1: You're giving me the scoope simon, aren't you. You're saying

90
00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:50,359
Speaker 1: that hospitals and health are both fair game for private

91
00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:53,440
Speaker 1: private capital to build PPPs, to come and build them

92
00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:54,320
Speaker 1: and we rent them back.

93
00:04:55,640 --> 00:04:59,320
Speaker 2: Well, that's a government policy to consider better use of

94
00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:03,120
Speaker 2: private nes situtional capital and delivering infrastructure. That's no secret, right.

95
00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:05,919
Speaker 2: But one of the one of the things we've learned

96
00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:08,480
Speaker 2: from looking at Transmission Galley and some of these other

97
00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:11,680
Speaker 2: projects is actually the risk balance isn't right between the

98
00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:14,080
Speaker 2: crown and the private sector. There's some risk that the

99
00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:17,600
Speaker 2: crown should should take hold of and retain and then

100
00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:20,320
Speaker 2: you actually get a better value, smarter outcome from the

101
00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:22,200
Speaker 2: private sector. So those are one of the things that

102
00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:25,280
Speaker 2: we're working on and also making sure the collaboration up

103
00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:27,520
Speaker 2: front is going to deliver the best design and the

104
00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:30,280
Speaker 2: best value for money. So in the next in the

105
00:05:30,279 --> 00:05:33,760
Speaker 2: next couple of months, we'll be making an announcement about that.

106
00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:37,279
Speaker 1: But just to be clear, National has so far limited

107
00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:40,280
Speaker 1: funding or ideas for funding for health and education to

108
00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:42,640
Speaker 1: the a SEC Fund, the super Fund and Key we saver.

109
00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:45,640
Speaker 1: Are you saying that it could be open to private

110
00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:48,240
Speaker 1: enterprise companies like vital.

111
00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:52,120
Speaker 2: Well in the education space, you know there are already

112
00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:59,800
Speaker 2: education PPPs, so at Waktapu School, you know in Auckland,

113
00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:03,760
Speaker 2: at Hobsonville. We're private capital, not just ACC and these

114
00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:07,120
Speaker 2: other government funds are already engaged. So we just want

115
00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:09,320
Speaker 2: to make sure that there's a simple pathway to do

116
00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:11,440
Speaker 2: it and that the Crown is ready, because the Crown

117
00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:14,560
Speaker 2: hasn't necessarily been ready to have this engagement. The last

118
00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:18,920
Speaker 2: six years have seen the withering away of Crown's capability

119
00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:21,400
Speaker 2: to engage with the private sector. We're making sure that

120
00:06:21,839 --> 00:06:24,039
Speaker 2: we're ready to do that and we'll have a policy

121
00:06:24,080 --> 00:06:25,520
Speaker 2: announcement take in the next couple of months.

122
00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:27,040
Speaker 1: All right, Simon, thank you very much for your time

123
00:06:27,040 --> 00:06:30,440
Speaker 1: this morning. That's act MP and Under Secretary for IMA

124
00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:34,240
Speaker 1: and Infrastructure, Simon Court. For more from News Talks EDB,

125
00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:37,760
Speaker 1: listen live on air or online and keep our shows

126
00:06:37,800 --> 00:06:40,640
Speaker 1: with you wherever you go with our podcasts on IR

127
00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:41,120
Speaker 1: Radio