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Speaker 1: Now there is concern that we're going to have some

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Speaker 1: young people coming out of polytechnics with the wrong skills.

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Speaker 1: There's a group of organizations that represent dairy farmers and mechanics,

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Speaker 1: roading and infrastructure companies and so on, and they've warned

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Speaker 1: the government that their planned education changes are going to

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Speaker 1: muck up vocational training. Rachel Simpson is Business New Zealand's

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Speaker 1: education expert and with us right now. Hey, Rachel, hi, okay,

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Speaker 1: so tell me what the problems because it seems to

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Speaker 1: me that what's going on here is that under the changes,

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Speaker 1: the government wants to decide what the kids learn, but

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Speaker 1: you guys want the industry experts to decide.

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Speaker 2: Is that right? Yeah? So we're on industry leading, government

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Speaker 2: enabled system that's the hallmark of all the world leading

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Speaker 2: vocational systems. So we're recommending some changes to the laws

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Speaker 2: that are gone through Parliament at the moment to achieve that.

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Speaker 1: Are you actually seeing what the curriculum is and that

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Speaker 1: it is potentially going to give them the wrong skills

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Speaker 1: or you're just anticipating that it may be a problem.

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Speaker 2: Well, we've been hearing the feedback from employers for a

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Speaker 2: while that the skills that are being produced are not

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Speaker 2: matching what they need on the job. And if you

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Speaker 2: have a look at the perking as in your report,

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Speaker 2: we can see forty percent of the politic graduates aren't

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Speaker 2: getting work after they get the qualifications and the number

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Speaker 2: of those completing their apprenticeships are going down.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So what kind of skills are they're not getting

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Speaker 1: that they should be getting?

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Speaker 2: So they need stuff that is current and relevant. So

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Speaker 2: at the moment, a lot of our qualifications and the

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Speaker 2: programs haven't changed for years. If you think about the

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Speaker 2: changes in the workforce over the last few years, the

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Speaker 2: skill system needs to keep up with it.

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Speaker 1: Do all of these industry bodies actually have the time

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Speaker 1: to be involved in designing the curriculum.

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Speaker 2: The industry bodies are the ones that know what skills

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Speaker 2: are needed. They don't need to be education experts to

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Speaker 2: be able to get that into the education system. And

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Speaker 2: if they do, then that's assigned. There's a problem with

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Speaker 2: the education system.

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Speaker 1: Is there also a risk? One of the arguments against

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Speaker 1: letting the industry bodies do is that it's two short

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Speaker 1: term focused, right the industry bodies that the employers are

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Speaker 1: going to be focused on getting the kids to give

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Speaker 1: them the skills they need right now, whereas perhaps somebody

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Speaker 1: who's designing, who's an expert designing a curriculum, would look

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Speaker 1: ahead at the skills coming down the pipeline that are needed.

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Speaker 2: Well, people don't stop learning once they get on the job.

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Speaker 2: What we need is for them to get the skills

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Speaker 2: to get the job, and then to make sure that

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Speaker 2: work based learning is really good quality and continues to

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Speaker 2: teach them. The skills is the need and the workface changes.

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Speaker 1: Good stuff, Rachel Good Luckily, that's Rachel Simpson, Business New

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Speaker 1: Zealand Education Experts. For more from the mic Asking Breakfast,

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Speaker 1: listen live to news talks that'd be from six am weekdays,

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