1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,560 Speaker 1: Now let's talk about jails and phones. Are phones in 2 00:00:02,640 --> 00:00:04,760 Speaker 1: jails rather, because there's a call for more of these things, 3 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:07,400 Speaker 1: to the extent that phones should now be installed apparently 4 00:00:07,440 --> 00:00:10,320 Speaker 1: in each prison cell. The former president of the Wellington 5 00:00:10,320 --> 00:00:13,840 Speaker 1: Howard Lead, Christine mccarthee, is petitioning Parliament for the change 6 00:00:14,080 --> 00:00:18,160 Speaker 1: and she's with us now, high Christine, Hi, why would 7 00:00:18,160 --> 00:00:19,040 Speaker 1: you like to see this happen? 8 00:00:20,360 --> 00:00:23,119 Speaker 2: Well, what I'm actually petitioning for is to increase the 9 00:00:23,560 --> 00:00:26,800 Speaker 2: hour that sorry, the minutes per week that prisoners can 10 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:29,640 Speaker 2: use on the phone. So currently they've got a legal 11 00:00:29,640 --> 00:00:32,000 Speaker 2: requirement for five minutes per week and I think that 12 00:00:32,040 --> 00:00:34,520 Speaker 2: should go to an hour. And part of the work 13 00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:38,000 Speaker 2: I did in looking at that, I found that increasingly 14 00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:42,400 Speaker 2: overseas sales having phones in them, and that has huge 15 00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:45,760 Speaker 2: benefits in terms of prisoner has been able to communicate 16 00:00:45,800 --> 00:00:48,239 Speaker 2: with their families. For example, issues we have at the 17 00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:52,800 Speaker 2: moment are maybe sixty men trying to get two phones 18 00:00:52,920 --> 00:00:54,920 Speaker 2: at a time when their kids are at school, so 19 00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:56,720 Speaker 2: they can't talk to them. So there's a whole lot 20 00:00:56,760 --> 00:01:00,400 Speaker 2: of sort of scheduling issues that would be completely moved 21 00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:02,120 Speaker 2: if there were phones in every cell. 22 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:05,759 Speaker 1: Yeah, is there also access access issues for lawyers. 23 00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:11,680 Speaker 2: That's a slightly different issue. Yes, there are excess issues 24 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:16,520 Speaker 2: for lawyers, but that's a there's no limit in terms 25 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:19,280 Speaker 2: of like the five minutes a week is for them 26 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:21,640 Speaker 2: to talk to families and things like that. The legal 27 00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:23,440 Speaker 2: calls are a separate category of call. 28 00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:26,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, and five minutes five minutes goes by pretty fast, 29 00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:29,760 Speaker 1: doesn't it, do you think though? I mean, if you 30 00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:32,600 Speaker 1: were to put a self a phone rather in each cell, 31 00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:36,520 Speaker 1: would there be restrictions on how that is used? 32 00:01:38,280 --> 00:01:40,200 Speaker 2: Well, one of the wonderful things is that we have 33 00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:45,280 Speaker 2: increasingly wonderful technology. So you have to remember the context 34 00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:50,680 Speaker 2: that prisoners have to apply every telephone number that they're 35 00:01:50,680 --> 00:01:53,720 Speaker 2: going to ring, that has to be approved. And when 36 00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:55,960 Speaker 2: you have sort of electronic systems, I mean, you know, 37 00:01:56,040 --> 00:01:58,520 Speaker 2: in terms of even just in terms of the electronic 38 00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:00,840 Speaker 2: systems that you have in terms of radio and stuff, 39 00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:03,360 Speaker 2: the way you can monitor stuff, the way you can 40 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:07,400 Speaker 2: access and record things is just you know, way ahead 41 00:02:07,440 --> 00:02:10,400 Speaker 2: than when they put this in place in the nineteen nineties, 42 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:13,360 Speaker 2: So this is over thirty years ago they set that limit, right, And. 43 00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:15,600 Speaker 1: Would would it be on phones that would only be 44 00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:17,480 Speaker 1: able to make calls out or would they receive calls 45 00:02:17,480 --> 00:02:19,639 Speaker 1: as well? 46 00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:22,080 Speaker 2: Well? At the moment, this is just about the outgoing cause. 47 00:02:22,120 --> 00:02:24,000 Speaker 2: I mean, if you really want the sort of details 48 00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:28,320 Speaker 2: our only private prison, Circo has in cell phones. 49 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:30,720 Speaker 1: Do they? 50 00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:31,880 Speaker 2: Yeah? 51 00:02:32,040 --> 00:02:37,919 Speaker 1: Are they able to be hacked by the prisoner? No, 52 00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:41,560 Speaker 1: what I'm talking about it or anything about electronics, But 53 00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:43,519 Speaker 1: it seems to me if it's electronic, it can be hacked. 54 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:46,959 Speaker 2: Well, I don't think that that doesn't seem to be 55 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:50,120 Speaker 2: a problem that's been raised as far as I'm aware. 56 00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:52,880 Speaker 1: Okay, And do they get up to nefarious things on 57 00:02:52,960 --> 00:02:54,880 Speaker 1: these phones and Circo cells. 58 00:02:56,200 --> 00:02:58,080 Speaker 2: Not that I'm aware of. You have to remember again, 59 00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:01,040 Speaker 2: you know that the electronics have very easy to sort 60 00:03:01,040 --> 00:03:03,320 Speaker 2: of monitor and terms of stuff in all the all 61 00:03:03,360 --> 00:03:06,520 Speaker 2: the numbers that are allowed to be used are ones 62 00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:07,200 Speaker 2: that have been better. 63 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:09,520 Speaker 1: Say this, Christine, We say everything's easy to be monitored. 64 00:03:09,520 --> 00:03:10,840 Speaker 1: But before you know, they've got a phone up there, 65 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:12,440 Speaker 1: bum and they've got it in the South. So these 66 00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:14,200 Speaker 1: guys will find workarounds, won't they. 67 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:20,639 Speaker 2: I'm talking about the phones that corrections controls. 68 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:23,320 Speaker 1: I'm aware of what you're talking. I'm just trying to 69 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:26,000 Speaker 1: I'm trying what I'm trying to illustrate is they find workarounds, 70 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:28,240 Speaker 1: they don't work within the limits of the system anyway. Christine, 71 00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:30,919 Speaker 1: thank you very much, really appreciate that. Christine McCarthy, former 72 00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:34,040 Speaker 1: president of the Wellington Howard League for Penal Reform. 73 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:37,240 Speaker 2: For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to 74 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:40,400 Speaker 2: news talks they'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow 75 00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:42,200 Speaker 2: the podcast on iHeartRadio.