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Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from News Talks. It be

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Speaker 1: follow this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: It's time from all the attitude, all the opinion, all

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Speaker 1: the information, all the debates of this now the Leighton

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Speaker 1: Smith Podcast powered by News Talks It be.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to podcast two hundred and fifty for August seven,

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty four. Before we get into the podcast, a

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Speaker 2: couple of personal notes. When I signed on for the podcast,

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Speaker 2: this is the sixth year. It was up for contract

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Speaker 2: at the beginning of last year and I signed on.

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Speaker 2: And part of the reason that I decided to keep

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Speaker 2: rolling was because this took me to a point that

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Speaker 2: I thought I wanted to reach. Because the beginning of August.

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Speaker 2: Can't remember the exact date, the beginning of August of

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Speaker 2: nineteen seventy four. Do a quick math fifty years ago

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Speaker 2: go and I thought, I thought, I want to get

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Speaker 2: to fifty years. It's just a little personal goal. But

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Speaker 2: it only came on when this current contract came up.

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Speaker 2: And I'm very pleased that I did. Question is and

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Speaker 2: we're going to sign up for another one at the

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Speaker 2: end of this year. Time will tell now Having mentioned

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Speaker 2: that I thought that I might do a little bit

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Speaker 2: on the first radio job that I had back in

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Speaker 2: nineteen seventy four. So I've decided at the back end

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Speaker 2: of this podcast two fifty, I'll read you a couple

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Speaker 2: of pages from the book Beyond the Microphone that covers

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Speaker 2: the initial impression of well, where I ended up in

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Speaker 2: that first ever radio job. So let's get into it

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Speaker 2: and let me quote you something from the back of

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Speaker 2: a book that features in the interview today. Is climate

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Speaker 2: in crisis?

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Speaker 3: No?

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Speaker 2: What nonsense? Planet Earth is currently in a CO two famine,

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Speaker 2: according to Professor Wilhapper, Atomic Physics, Princeton University and the

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Speaker 2: United States. Inevitably that truth will become apparent to everyone.

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Speaker 2: Is climate change about man made activities?

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Speaker 1: No?

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Speaker 2: Is the future of life on Earth? The reduction of emissions?

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Speaker 4: No?

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Speaker 2: Is climate change a hoax? Yes? The explanation for those

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Speaker 2: and the backing for those statements will become apparent in

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Speaker 2: the during the interview. But I decided what I wanted

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Speaker 2: to do this podcast when Air New Zealand made the

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Speaker 2: announcements too hard, too costly. Air New Zealand throttles back

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Speaker 2: pledged to cut emissions by twenty thirty and it was

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Speaker 2: only after that that I, spooling through this book, came

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Speaker 2: across this carbon farming and sequestration under climate tax regimes.

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Speaker 2: Being product of the Paris Accord. As in New Zealand,

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Speaker 2: corporations like in New Zealand and many others are buying

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Speaker 2: farmland to grow particularly Pinus radiata pine trees. In the

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Speaker 2: Gisbane area of New Zealand alone, it is estimated that

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Speaker 2: already in excess of twenty eight thousand hectares have been

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Speaker 2: so far purchased to date, with a lot more to

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Speaker 2: be purchased in the immediate future. Now you take that,

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Speaker 2: of course, is for sacking up CO two. Go back

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Speaker 2: to the comment by Professor Will Happer planet Earth is

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Speaker 2: currently in the CO two famine. Flies in the face

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Speaker 2: of everything you hear from politicians and the media. But

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Speaker 2: let's just pass on that as well. Within New Zealand.

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Speaker 2: Making that announcement and then coming across this commentary about

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Speaker 2: them buying loads of land in the Gisbane area, one

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Speaker 2: can only think what a foolish thing it was to

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Speaker 2: do at the time, rushing into a massive investment for

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Speaker 2: some peculiar reason that really is non applicable Now that

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Speaker 2: of course depends on your beliefs. If you've been suckered

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Speaker 2: in and you think that CO two is a pollutant,

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Speaker 2: that I hope that you'll listen to the interview today

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Speaker 2: and come out with a different perspective. And what I

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Speaker 2: really hope is that there will be many a parent

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Speaker 2: who will as a result of this interview and a

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Speaker 2: result of the book, because I think many of you

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Speaker 2: will want to get it and the sharing of it

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Speaker 2: with your school age kids, particularly high school kids, will

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Speaker 2: benefit them, if for no other reason, because it will

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Speaker 2: encourage some critical thinking and just as a ps This

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Speaker 2: particular interview is something that I had been planning to

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Speaker 2: do for quite some time and coincided with the release

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Speaker 2: of volume two of the book by Amazon Australia. But

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Speaker 2: there was another interview that I also wanted to do

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Speaker 2: but decided to delay because I wanted to talk to

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Speaker 2: somebody locally. And Andrew Hollis is a retired he's not

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Speaker 2: that old, but he is a retired geologist, and he

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Speaker 2: is one of the three. And he is one of

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Speaker 2: the three, and he is one of the three authors

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Speaker 2: of this book. Climate actually and some takeaways. Now, if

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Speaker 2: that sounds familiar. It is because it got a sort

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Speaker 2: of a release back around Christmas time, but some issues

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Speaker 2: in the bend and was put on hold. But now

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Speaker 2: it's in full flight, a full explanation when we get

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Speaker 2: to the interview with Andrew Hollis. It's a bit frustrating

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Speaker 2: at the moment because there is so much that deserves attention,

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Speaker 2: the release of the New Zealand Pandemic plan as an example,

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Speaker 2: and the WHI no longer being fit for purpose according

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Speaker 2: to Ramesh, the curb the New Zealand economy, and the

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Speaker 2: infrastructure that's in dire straits in this country, as has

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Speaker 2: been much discussed on radio and the last week or so,

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Speaker 2: the Reserve Bank announcement on cbdc's lookout, and the blight

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Speaker 2: of left wing politicians, particularly Greens in this country. The

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Speaker 2: blight then is Kamala Harris's running mate. Oh boy, what

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Speaker 2: a case. And the dire straits that Britain finds itself

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Speaker 2: in some parts at least. But these matters will have

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Speaker 2: to wait for another occasion. But there's plenty coming. Now

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Speaker 2: there is a second interview. Now there is a second interview,

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Speaker 2: and that is with electrical engineer Brian Leyland. With whom

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Speaker 2: we have spoken on numerous occasions over the years, and

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Speaker 2: you'll be very intrigued with his commentary on the power

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Speaker 2: situation in this country, which is not in dire straits,

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Speaker 2: sort of balanced on the edge. But in just a moment,

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Speaker 2: Andrew hollis, there are essential fat nutrients that we need

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Speaker 2: in our diets as the body can't manufacture them. These

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Speaker 2: are Omega three and Omega six fatty acids. Equisine is

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Speaker 2: a combination of fish oil and virgin evening primrose oil,

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Speaker 2: a formula that provides an excellent source of Omega three

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Speaker 2: and Omega six fatty acids in their naturally existing ratios.

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Speaker 2: The Omega six from evening primrose oil assists the Omega

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Speaker 2: three fish oil to be more effective. Equisine is a

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Speaker 2: high quality fish oil supplement enriched with evening primrose oil

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Speaker 2: that works synergistically for comprehensive health support. Source from the

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Speaker 2: deep sea sardines Anchovisa magrol provide essential Amiga three fatty

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Speaker 2: acids in their purest form without any internal organs or toxins.

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Speaker 2: Every batch is tested for its purity before it's allowed

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Speaker 2: to be sold. Equisine supports cells to be flexible, so

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Speaker 2: important to support healthy blood flow and overall cardiovascular health.

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Speaker 2: Equisine can support mood balance and mental claricy and focus

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Speaker 2: in children all the way to supporting stiff joints, mental focus,

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Speaker 2: brain health and healthy eyes as we get older. ECAs

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Speaker 2: in as a premium high grade fish and evening primrose

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Speaker 2: oil to be taken in addition to a healthy diet

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Speaker 2: and is only available from pharmacies and health stores. Always

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Speaker 2: read the label and users directed, and if symptoms persist,

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Speaker 2: seeing your healthcare professional. Farmer broker Auckland Layton Smith Andrew

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Speaker 2: Hollis has a degree in Earth Sciences. It's an MSc

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Speaker 2: with Hoddors. I might add a retired geologist who saw

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Speaker 2: the conflations, exaggerations and outright falsehoods from nineteen ninety when

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Speaker 2: he first became interested in the climate. His degree included volcanology,

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Speaker 2: astronomy and oceanography and allowed him to understand the complex

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Speaker 2: interactions between infrared radiation and the natural environment. As the

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Speaker 2: retoric has massively increased in New Zealand, the data has

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Speaker 2: not changed. A lack of catastrophe has inconveniently not matched

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Speaker 2: the hysteria. He continues to plot graphs and investigate the

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Speaker 2: claims of the increasingly shrill climate doomsday profits and supported

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Speaker 2: by a compliant, seemingly non investigative media. I'd add lazy

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Speaker 2: to that creating this summary for the layperson is important.

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Speaker 2: This book is to make a permanent record of the

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Speaker 2: main points as a foil to the ludicrous claims of

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Speaker 2: the climate alarmists. And it seems that the more the

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Speaker 2: climate system refuses to collapse, the loud of these people become,

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Speaker 2: and the more government change policy in an endless procession

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Speaker 2: of the Emperor's new clothes. Andrew hollis very good to

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Speaker 2: welcome to the Lat and Smith podcast, and I thank you.

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Speaker 4: Thanks, Layton, Yeah, you're good to be here.

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Speaker 2: Going back to where you were nineteen ninety and where

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Speaker 2: you started to get interested in the climate, Just just

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Speaker 2: give me a better description, a more extensive description of

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Speaker 2: why you opted out.

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Speaker 5: Well, I guess the main thing for me was I've

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Speaker 5: been interested in science my whole life, as a kid

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Speaker 5: and all the way through. And I understood clearly what

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Speaker 5: was going on when I first went to university with

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Speaker 5: the interactions between the atmosphere and the other parts of

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Speaker 5: the world. Realizing that that certain things like volcanoes while

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Speaker 5: not driving, climate certainly affected it, and that the little

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Speaker 5: volcanoes that we'd seen, like Mount Saint Helen's, even Pinatubo

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Speaker 5: in a few years after I started, would affect the

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Speaker 5: global climate for a year or two. But his historically

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Speaker 5: there have been volcanoes that make Mount Saint Helen's look absolutely,

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Speaker 5: absolutely minuscule, and on a global sense, it absolutely is.

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Speaker 5: And so what I realized that there are things that

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Speaker 5: happen inside the Earth's system that created far bigger effects

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Speaker 5: than humans can ever create. And back in nineteen ninety,

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Speaker 5: like a lot of geologists in and around and before then,

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Speaker 5: we sort of felt that this climate science, this global

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Speaker 5: warming thing was a passing fad that would just just

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Speaker 5: fade away as nothing happened. And imagine my surprise some

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Speaker 5: thirty odd years later that not only did it not

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Speaker 5: become a passing fad, but became an extraordinarily expensive and

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Speaker 5: dangerous almost religion.

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Speaker 2: That might be because it became a captured con.

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Speaker 5: Well, yeah, the schedule lie, the noble lie where we

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Speaker 5: have to protect the environment and we're we're we're bad

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Speaker 5: creatures because we change the environment by by driving SUVs

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Speaker 5: and and and eating cattle and in the world.

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Speaker 4: Will the world will push back against us because of that?

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Speaker 5: And and it just seems like there's a word I'm

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Speaker 5: trying to think of that talks about our hubris. Is

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Speaker 5: it hubris that we can affect the atmosphere in such

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Speaker 5: a way as to cause a catastrophe? And the answer is,

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Speaker 5: we haven't got the technology or the ability to alter

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Speaker 5: the planets overall chemistry. We just we just we just

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Speaker 5: don't and lead alone with an innocuous gas like carbon dioxide,

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Speaker 5: which in my in my opinion, and what the evidence

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Speaker 5: suggests is it's entirely innocuous. It's it's there's nothing bad

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Speaker 5: happening because of an increase in CO two.

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Speaker 2: What would you put behind and the success of the

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Speaker 2: campaign that has taken over the world.

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Speaker 4: The success, I think is really simple.

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Speaker 5: There's a conflation where all of the ills that the

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Speaker 5: world suffers are put at the feat of carbon dioxide,

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Speaker 5: that the one gas is bad, and then instead of

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Speaker 5: explaining why it's bad, it's just we're just told over

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Speaker 5: and over that it's a bad, bad thing. It's been

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Speaker 5: changed from carbon dioxide into carbon obviously, and then instead

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Speaker 5: of justifying that assertion, it goes into all of the

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Speaker 5: bad things that happen, and if you don't agree, then

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Speaker 5: you're a bad person. And it really touches on people's

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Speaker 5: tribal instincts that if you disagree with that, you're removed

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Speaker 5: from society. You're canceled, so to speak. And so people

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Speaker 5: don't want to be canceled. You don't want to be

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Speaker 5: called a denier for its and so there's this big

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Speaker 5: negative connotation to going against the narrative, as a lot

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Speaker 5: of scientists have found out you mentioned in Climber but

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Speaker 5: due to Judith Curry and Richard Lindzen and will happen supply,

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Speaker 5: any any scientist that pokes the head up above the

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Speaker 5: parapet and go, wait, the emperor is not wearing any

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Speaker 5: clothes is absolutely knocked down and vilified. There is there

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Speaker 5: is no escape from it. The the cancel culture is

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Speaker 5: alive and well in science. And it's even to the

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Speaker 5: point that if I was to write a paper that

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Speaker 5: described the lack of catastrophe and the entirely benign effect

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Speaker 5: of a slight increase in carbon dioxide, because I wouldn't

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Speaker 5: be able to get it published.

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Speaker 2: No, you'd struggle. Although although there are now numerous ways

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Speaker 2: of having things in public frame.

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Speaker 5: Yes, in recent years there have been, and it was

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Speaker 5: part of the reason where we decided to write the

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Speaker 5: book is to get something out in public that pulled

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Speaker 5: the mystery apart for people that were on the fence

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Speaker 5: or weren't certain.

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Speaker 2: Now you would have been aware when you set out,

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Speaker 2: and we'll get to your fellow contributors in a moment,

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Speaker 2: there would have been an awareness on your part that

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Speaker 2: there have been any number of books that have been

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Speaker 2: published along these lines. And I start, I'm not saying

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Speaker 2: it was the first, because it wasn't. But but I

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Speaker 2: go back to Tim Ball, who I interviewed twice, and

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Speaker 2: the effect that he had before his unfortunate demise. But

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Speaker 2: the number of books that exist, both from overseas, and

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Speaker 2: I'm surprised at the number in New Zealand because I've

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Speaker 2: got them, was not a Was that not a hindrance

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Speaker 2: to you? At least? Did that not appear to be

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Speaker 2: a hindrance to what you wanted to achieve?

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Speaker 4: No, I don't think so, Pauly on a book of file.

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Speaker 5: I've got lots of books, and sometimes the way a

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Speaker 5: book has written suits somebody better than another. Perhaps there's

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Speaker 5: points that are made that aren't made in other books

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Speaker 5: as well, and it didn't. It didn't phase us. We

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Speaker 5: felt that we needed to write a book. None of

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Speaker 5: us really care about making an extraordinary fortune and in authorship,

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Speaker 5: otherwise I'd have written more books. It was about getting

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Speaker 5: our view out and locked into the public domain, so

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Speaker 5: that sometime in the future, certainly when my grandkids and

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Speaker 5: hopefully older generations past that look back that at least

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Speaker 5: someone in the family didn't buy into the nonsense.

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Speaker 4: Once once the smoke clears.

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Speaker 2: It's intriguing your fellow your fellow travelers. Mike Sanki being

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Speaker 2: one who started work as a policeman in Rhodesia, the

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Speaker 2: BSA Police and saw the transition through to Zimba that

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Speaker 2: he fought in a couple of oars and what have you.

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Speaker 2: But getting to the more relevant part. In twenty twenty

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Speaker 2: he completed a diploma in environmental management and this led

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Speaker 2: to further diplomas in geology, paleoantology and earth science, all

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Speaker 2: of which were passed with the distinction now that's and

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Speaker 2: there's more, but that gives him some sort of qualification.

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Speaker 2: I'm working up to something here and you'll get the

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Speaker 2: question in a moment. And then there was Alan Trotter,

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Speaker 2: who's a New Zealand lawyer has retired in has retired

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Speaker 2: in the Bay of Plenty. And I've never met Allan,

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Speaker 2: but I have corresponded with him and written and spoken

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Speaker 2: with him over a few years because he used to

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Speaker 2: contact me when I was still on radio, and I

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Speaker 2: was very surprised when I got the initial letter from

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Speaker 2: him to discuss the project that he and you were

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Speaker 2: working on. Now, the question I've got for you is this.

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Speaker 2: This is as much statement as questioned. You're the one

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Speaker 2: with the main Earth sciences qualifications.

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Speaker 4: That's right.

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Speaker 2: Mike has some now, but Alan doesn't. He has an.

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Speaker 4: Interest, He has an interest.

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Speaker 2: Although he did geography geology. Rather he did geology in

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Speaker 2: his law degree, which impressed me. But nevertheless, my proposal

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Speaker 2: to you is that you do not have to be

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Speaker 2: a qualified scientist in any particular area as far as

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Speaker 2: this is concerned. What you have to be is have

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Speaker 2: the initiative and power of critical thinking. Some experience with

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Speaker 2: dealing with statistics and opinions and evaluating figures and things

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Speaker 2: is of fairly important relevance you. But you don't have

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Speaker 2: to be someone with a p HD in climate science,

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Speaker 2: if there is such a thing, exactly right, and for

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Speaker 2: that matter, just to add to it, geologists, as far

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Speaker 2: as I'm concerned and have gathered, have probably the greater

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Speaker 2: ability to analyze the history of world climate than anybody else.

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Speaker 2: Am I wrong?

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Speaker 6: You know?

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Speaker 5: You're one hundred percent spot on? I even I've got

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Speaker 5: taken a one step further. I worked for quite a

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Speaker 5: number of years, something like twelve years or something, in

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Speaker 5: and around mining, and I've met hundreds and perhaps even

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Speaker 5: thousands of geologists from around the world, from all walks

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Speaker 5: of life, in different commodities, in different areas, and there

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Speaker 5: is a distinct split now between geologists who work for

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Speaker 5: a living and geologists who are academic. Academic geologists invariably

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Speaker 5: fall into the alarmist camp, and geologists who are out

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Speaker 5: in the field and working for corporates or for themselves

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Speaker 5: invariably can't believe.

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Speaker 4: That this is even happening.

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Speaker 5: And it was mind boggling for me to discover that

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Speaker 5: in the late nineties, when I first started actually working

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Speaker 5: as a geologist, that every single geologist I met felt

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Speaker 5: that this was a total nonsense. Until you met geologists

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Speaker 5: at conference who were academic geologists who all felt that the.

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Speaker 4: World is ending and catastrophe is looming.

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Speaker 5: But back to your main point of the area is

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Speaker 5: that you don't need to be a climate scientist. In fact,

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Speaker 5: I suggests that becoming a climate scientist now is detrimental

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Speaker 5: to critical thinking. That the ability to critically think if

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Speaker 5: you're studying climate science openly is diymed it at the

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Speaker 5: university level that you are not able to think that

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Speaker 5: way anymore or you won't pass.

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Speaker 2: It's extraordinary, but again is extraordinary, but it does go

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Speaker 2: hand in glove with numerous other aspects to academia and

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Speaker 2: where we find ourselves in a very woke world, which

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Speaker 2: hopefully is in some form of retreat.

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Speaker 5: Have you have you.

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Speaker 2: Noticed at all anything across the area that I just

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Speaker 2: mentioned everything woke, that there is now growing pushback and

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Speaker 2: retreat in some areas.

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Speaker 4: I'm noticing it with my kids.

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Speaker 5: I've got four children, and they are starting to push

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Speaker 5: back themselves. I see them rolling your eyes when they

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Speaker 5: see woke nonsense turn up. They are starting to openly

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Speaker 5: joke about things that a few years ago were quite taboo,

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Speaker 5: and they've stopped caring about cancel culture in the way

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Speaker 5: that there was about a decade of cancel culture that

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Speaker 5: was very, very tough for young folk. But I've noticed

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Speaker 5: now they are starting to go back to just being

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Speaker 5: normal kids, joking about normal things and testing boundaries properly

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Speaker 5: again and without having to worry about what other people

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Speaker 5: think so much. I don't know whether it's just my kids,

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Speaker 5: but it seems to be that their friends and friends

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Speaker 5: or friends are starting to think in similar ways. That

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Speaker 5: they're starting to become a little more critical. They're becoming

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Speaker 5: a little bit more you know, I'm just going to

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Speaker 5: stay what I think and if it's funny, then great,

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Speaker 5: and if you don't like it, tough. And there's a

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Speaker 5: bit more of that attitude seems to be creeping through.

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Speaker 5: So with any luck the generation past, whatever we're up

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Speaker 5: to might come right.

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Speaker 2: We'll see encouraging. I want to read you some headlines

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Speaker 2: that have led me more recently to accept what I

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Speaker 2: was promoting. And the reason that I wanted to talk

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Speaker 2: with you was because of an announcement by in New

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Speaker 2: Zealand a week or so back. Too Hard, Too Costly

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Speaker 2: Zealand Throttle's backpledge to cut emissions by twenty thirty so

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Speaker 2: that was the anchor. And I've collected some similar types

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Speaker 2: of headlines, and I want to quote them The Washington

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Speaker 2: Times editorial board, not the Washington Post. The Washington Times

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Speaker 2: declaring independence from hoaxes. Quote, let's put the climate change

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Speaker 2: fantasy to rest. What's being sold as science isn't science

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Speaker 2: at all. Beyond Longborg on why polar Bear by the

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Speaker 2: polar bear has been dropped as a climate mascot quote,

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Speaker 2: it finally became impossible to ignore the mountain of evidence

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Speaker 2: showing that the global polar bear population has increased substantially

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Speaker 2: from climate depot analysis. How no double a climate catastrophists mislead,

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Speaker 2: how a very small change in temperature appears much larger

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Speaker 2: and more significant. The energy transition ain't happening. Green economy

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Speaker 2: in retreat.

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Speaker 6: Now.

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Speaker 2: That's from and this gives credibility to what I was saying,

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Speaker 2: to what we were discussing a few moments ago. The

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Speaker 2: energy transition ain't happening. Green economy in retreat.

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Speaker 4: Now.

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Speaker 2: That's written by a man who writes under the title

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Speaker 2: of Manhattan Contrarian. He is a retired lawyer by allan,

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Speaker 2: but he lives in Manhattan in New York and he's

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Speaker 2: been writing columns for a number of years, because I

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Speaker 2: latched onto him from the very beginning, because of his

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Speaker 2: because of his legal expertise. But he's transitioned and he's

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Speaker 2: a prime example of exactly what you and I were

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Speaker 2: just discussing. Then there is global greening becomes so obvious

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Speaker 2: that climate of armists start arguing, we need to save

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Speaker 2: the deserts, and finally the UN's Green Agenda will spark famine.

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Speaker 2: Now that's a twelve page article from the Brownstone Institute

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Speaker 2: of Well, it's actually the second part of a series

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Speaker 2: looking at the plans of the United Nations and its

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Speaker 2: agencies designing and implementing the Agenda of the Summit of

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Speaker 2: the Future in New York twenty second twenty third of

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Speaker 2: September next month, at its implications for global health, economic development,

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Speaker 2: human rights. Previously, the impact on health policy of the

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Speaker 2: Climate Agenda was analyzed. That was in the first one.

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Speaker 2: The second one was published just a few days just

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Speaker 2: a few days ago. So there is a growing number

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Speaker 2: of headlines and articles that lead me to believe, and

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Speaker 2: obviously you that things might be correcting self correcting.

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Speaker 4: Well, I certainly hope.

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Speaker 5: So it's the amount of money spent on things like

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Speaker 5: renewable energy and putting solar panels in places that they

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Speaker 5: never going to work, and such things as eyewatering. It's

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Speaker 5: in the order of certainly the early trillions of dollars

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Speaker 5: a year that gets squandered on things that don't really help.

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Speaker 5: And if we talk about the environment, there are so

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Speaker 5: many environmental issues that could be resolved. If you gave

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Speaker 5: me two trillion dollars a year, I'm pretty sure I

403
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Speaker 5: could fix some things, and it wouldn't just be whacking

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Speaker 5: up some solar panels and in creating all manner of

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Speaker 5: environmental issues by focusing in the wrong areas. And that

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Speaker 5: this is what this is what I think frustrates me

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Speaker 5: the most is we've created a climate science.

408
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Speaker 4: The opposite of a drought glut.

409
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Speaker 5: Will do universities who are to become published, to become

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Speaker 5: a scientist, heading into climate science makes total sense if

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Speaker 5: and only if you agree with the narrative. If you don't,

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Speaker 5: then then in your you're worse than worse than a

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Speaker 5: physicist trying to eke out a living. And this is

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Speaker 5: a strange place to be where we've got people telling

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Speaker 5: effectively giant lies and believing the lies just to get

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Speaker 5: funding so that they can be a scientist of some sort,

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Speaker 5: ironically by doing it not being a scientist.

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Speaker 4: It's a very strange place that we're in.

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Speaker 5: And with any more headlines like what in New Zealand's done,

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Speaker 5: putting the nonsense out and getting on with doing business,

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Speaker 5: you know, and as an efficient environment in friendly way

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Speaker 5: as they can, as critical the more businesses that follow

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Speaker 5: that lead the better in my opinion. Just get on

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Speaker 5: with your knitting and stop trying to save the world

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Speaker 5: from a non existent bogie man.

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Speaker 2: Let me transfer attention to book number two, which I

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Speaker 2: understand is going to be published by Amazon Australia. And

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Speaker 2: actually before we go on, I want to cover off

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Speaker 2: of the book itself because I made mention of it

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Speaker 2: back at the end of last year and things didn't

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Speaker 2: go quite the way that they should have or that

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Speaker 2: you would have liked them. And I'll give you my summary,

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Speaker 2: and that was for a variety of reasons. One is

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Speaker 2: because you decided in the end you'd self published because

435
00:28:29,493 --> 00:28:31,333
Speaker 2: you couldn't get it published because they wouldn't touch it.

436
00:28:32,573 --> 00:28:38,573
Speaker 2: Then you had bookshops that wouldn't take it, and so

437
00:28:39,133 --> 00:28:42,893
Speaker 2: as time went on, you developed the book further. Then

438
00:28:42,933 --> 00:28:46,013
Speaker 2: you decided more recently that you would split the book

439
00:28:46,133 --> 00:28:50,853
Speaker 2: into two. And so there is book one, which is

440
00:28:51,653 --> 00:28:55,173
Speaker 2: climate actually and some takeaways, and book two. What's the

441
00:28:55,213 --> 00:28:55,973
Speaker 2: title of book two.

442
00:28:56,573 --> 00:28:59,573
Speaker 5: I just called volume two volume two, so it's the

443
00:28:59,613 --> 00:29:01,093
Speaker 5: same title, but volume two.

444
00:29:01,293 --> 00:29:04,173
Speaker 2: And I know that you've just submitted the final version

445
00:29:04,253 --> 00:29:07,933
Speaker 2: to Amazon Australia and you told me that they're very quick,

446
00:29:08,413 --> 00:29:11,773
Speaker 2: very fast in getting it into print.

447
00:29:12,933 --> 00:29:15,533
Speaker 5: Well it's yes. It takes a couple of days. They

448
00:29:15,653 --> 00:29:18,773
Speaker 5: take all the author's details and the information given and

449
00:29:18,933 --> 00:29:22,093
Speaker 5: make sure that it's suitable for the audience, it's not

450
00:29:22,693 --> 00:29:26,293
Speaker 5: explicit or anything that goes against community standards or things

451
00:29:26,333 --> 00:29:30,613
Speaker 5: like that, and then it turns up as ready to

452
00:29:30,973 --> 00:29:32,653
Speaker 5: ready to go quite quickly.

453
00:29:33,853 --> 00:29:37,093
Speaker 2: Days and it's published out of Australia. And then this

454
00:29:37,213 --> 00:29:40,333
Speaker 2: is one of the great things of amazons spread around

455
00:29:40,373 --> 00:29:43,613
Speaker 2: the world because Australia is Australia and Amazon is a

456
00:29:43,613 --> 00:29:45,653
Speaker 2: far better place to get your books if you can,

457
00:29:46,013 --> 00:29:51,173
Speaker 2: than Americas. It is for a variety of reasons. Now,

458
00:29:53,533 --> 00:29:56,893
Speaker 2: just give me an outline then of how you how

459
00:29:56,933 --> 00:30:00,413
Speaker 2: you've approached the second book and what it covers.

460
00:30:01,373 --> 00:30:06,293
Speaker 5: So when we put the first version together. We found

461
00:30:06,333 --> 00:30:10,053
Speaker 5: that we would write her to about a specific piece

462
00:30:10,093 --> 00:30:15,893
Speaker 5: of the puzzle piece of science, for example, how statistics

463
00:30:15,893 --> 00:30:19,573
Speaker 5: and graphs are used to confuse people that don't understand

464
00:30:19,573 --> 00:30:23,333
Speaker 5: statistics and graphs, and then we would talk about some

465
00:30:23,373 --> 00:30:26,413
Speaker 5: of the political aspects of why that was done and

466
00:30:26,453 --> 00:30:29,333
Speaker 5: where it was done and how it was being used

467
00:30:29,493 --> 00:30:32,613
Speaker 5: to confound people. But what we found is that we

468
00:30:32,613 --> 00:30:36,773
Speaker 5: were repeating ourselves throughout the book talking about very similar points,

469
00:30:37,413 --> 00:30:41,413
Speaker 5: and it started to make less sense to put it

470
00:30:41,453 --> 00:30:45,973
Speaker 5: as a linear journey through one book, and it made

471
00:30:45,973 --> 00:30:49,733
Speaker 5: more sense to create a book better suited for the

472
00:30:49,813 --> 00:30:56,653
Speaker 5: science and turning what can be quite a complicated science

473
00:30:56,733 --> 00:31:00,693
Speaker 5: into something easier for people without a science background to understand,

474
00:31:01,053 --> 00:31:04,333
Speaker 5: which is the main premise of the book anyway, and

475
00:31:04,373 --> 00:31:09,533
Speaker 5: then reference that through the second book, talking about how

476
00:31:09,773 --> 00:31:15,733
Speaker 5: various government policy and other things are affecting our lives

477
00:31:16,773 --> 00:31:17,893
Speaker 5: based off.

478
00:31:19,133 --> 00:31:19,853
Speaker 4: Bad science.

479
00:31:20,013 --> 00:31:22,173
Speaker 5: And so the second book becomes a little bit more

480
00:31:23,573 --> 00:31:27,773
Speaker 5: related to what happens when bad science is used to

481
00:31:28,013 --> 00:31:32,693
Speaker 5: confound people, rather than being about the science itself. So

482
00:31:33,093 --> 00:31:38,613
Speaker 5: the second book is our takeaway of what's happening with

483
00:31:38,693 --> 00:31:45,013
Speaker 5: each aspect of the whole picture, including things like why

484
00:31:45,093 --> 00:31:48,053
Speaker 5: the emissions trading scheme in New Zealand is a colossal

485
00:31:48,093 --> 00:31:53,013
Speaker 5: waste of money and time and hasn't worked. How vilifying

486
00:31:53,093 --> 00:31:59,453
Speaker 5: farmers is an extraordinary decision to make by governments and

487
00:31:59,493 --> 00:32:03,013
Speaker 5: by people. Frequently we find people that drive their TVs

488
00:32:03,053 --> 00:32:06,213
Speaker 5: around town are very happy to blame farmers for the

489
00:32:06,253 --> 00:32:11,093
Speaker 5: woes of the environment rather than taking responsibility themselves. But

490
00:32:11,813 --> 00:32:14,973
Speaker 5: it's that kind of thing inside the second book, which

491
00:32:15,053 --> 00:32:20,133
Speaker 5: ties in where the duplicity and the deceit is occurring.

492
00:32:20,973 --> 00:32:22,933
Speaker 2: Is it specifically a New Zealand book.

493
00:32:23,933 --> 00:32:27,533
Speaker 5: Parts of it are because we were quite close to

494
00:32:27,573 --> 00:32:31,853
Speaker 5: what the recent labor government was doing and prior to that,

495
00:32:32,613 --> 00:32:35,533
Speaker 5: the signing of the Paris Accord by the national government

496
00:32:36,533 --> 00:32:40,053
Speaker 5: prior to twenty nineteen, and so there's various aspects of

497
00:32:40,053 --> 00:32:43,053
Speaker 5: what happened locally that we've used because that was very

498
00:32:44,213 --> 00:32:45,093
Speaker 5: familiar to us.

499
00:32:45,533 --> 00:32:46,813
Speaker 4: But those same.

500
00:32:49,093 --> 00:32:52,573
Speaker 5: Governmental policy decisions have been made in virtually every wes

501
00:32:53,133 --> 00:32:55,973
Speaker 5: in virtually every Western government in exactly the same manner.

502
00:32:56,493 --> 00:32:59,133
Speaker 4: So it might be New Zealand.

503
00:32:58,933 --> 00:33:02,493
Speaker 5: Focused on a couple of issues, but it will translate

504
00:33:02,533 --> 00:33:06,453
Speaker 5: well into Canada and Australia. In the US, and certainly

505
00:33:06,453 --> 00:33:10,653
Speaker 5: in Europe there will be very very similar examples that

506
00:33:10,733 --> 00:33:11,973
Speaker 5: people will be able to pick up on.

507
00:33:12,213 --> 00:33:13,173
Speaker 4: I think quite quickly.

508
00:33:13,453 --> 00:33:16,013
Speaker 2: I'm just going back to the two volume one and

509
00:33:16,173 --> 00:33:23,093
Speaker 2: under the heading the science. I won't read it all,

510
00:33:24,133 --> 00:33:26,613
Speaker 2: but I'll pick it up in the second paragraph. Even

511
00:33:26,613 --> 00:33:30,893
Speaker 2: when scientists agree what they can agree on, they could

512
00:33:30,893 --> 00:33:37,133
Speaker 2: also be wrong, and scientists are frequently wrong. That is

513
00:33:37,933 --> 00:33:43,333
Speaker 2: the point of trying to prove theories. Now, if I

514
00:33:43,373 --> 00:33:51,493
Speaker 2: go back to earlier in the book under a different headline,

515
00:33:52,293 --> 00:33:55,093
Speaker 2: New Zealand's ex Prime Minister Descenda A. Dern on two

516
00:33:55,213 --> 00:33:58,933
Speaker 2: December twenty twenty use the same retric talking about the

517
00:33:58,973 --> 00:34:02,773
Speaker 2: science involved, and she declared in the New Zealand Parliament

518
00:34:02,773 --> 00:34:05,813
Speaker 2: a need for certain conditions to prevail under the authority

519
00:34:05,933 --> 00:34:11,213
Speaker 2: of a declaration of Climate Emoon Agency. Parliamentary Hansard records

520
00:34:11,253 --> 00:34:15,133
Speaker 2: faithfully her opening first sentence remark as being I think

521
00:34:15,173 --> 00:34:18,893
Speaker 2: the first and most important point is to make is

522
00:34:18,933 --> 00:34:23,813
Speaker 2: that this is a declaration based on science close quote.

523
00:34:24,413 --> 00:34:28,653
Speaker 2: And thereafter in that parliamentary introductory speech not once did

524
00:34:28,693 --> 00:34:33,013
Speaker 2: she use or refer to the word science again. She

525
00:34:33,093 --> 00:34:35,173
Speaker 2: is now left to the New Zealand government and thereby

526
00:34:35,253 --> 00:34:41,253
Speaker 2: requiring others to stew in the duces not scientific substances

527
00:34:41,293 --> 00:34:46,093
Speaker 2: that she had already created. No, I want to go

528
00:34:46,293 --> 00:34:51,133
Speaker 2: to one other person on the next page. Similarly, James Shaw,

529
00:34:51,453 --> 00:34:55,933
Speaker 2: New Zealand Government's Minister for Climate Change, has admitted that

530
00:34:56,013 --> 00:35:00,093
Speaker 2: the EDS Climate Change and Business Conference in Auckland, New

531
00:35:00,173 --> 00:35:05,693
Speaker 2: Zealand reported reported November twenty second, twenty twenty the New

532
00:35:05,773 --> 00:35:11,733
Speaker 2: Zealand Herald that he has limited understanding of the science involved.

533
00:35:13,373 --> 00:35:16,533
Speaker 2: Yet New Zealand government policy on climate change promotes a

534
00:35:16,613 --> 00:35:21,733
Speaker 2: highly problematical climate declaration which attributes climate calamity primarily to

535
00:35:21,773 --> 00:35:26,053
Speaker 2: the continuation of emissions of man made greenhouse gases into

536
00:35:26,533 --> 00:35:32,893
Speaker 2: the Earth's atmosphere. This is the science claim to be

537
00:35:33,013 --> 00:35:38,333
Speaker 2: calamitous and which is not supported not supported by appropriately

538
00:35:38,453 --> 00:35:44,053
Speaker 2: appropriately qualified scientists. Now that really summarizes that whole scenario,

539
00:35:44,213 --> 00:35:44,613
Speaker 2: does it not?

540
00:35:45,773 --> 00:35:49,733
Speaker 5: It absolutely does, And it's probably my pet peeve with

541
00:35:49,853 --> 00:35:53,893
Speaker 5: things like the IPCC, where they do a fantastic job

542
00:35:53,933 --> 00:35:57,453
Speaker 5: of pulling it all together and then give the whole

543
00:35:57,493 --> 00:36:01,853
Speaker 5: lot away to a bunch of policy writers who ignore

544
00:36:01,853 --> 00:36:04,373
Speaker 5: the science and come out with a lot of stuff

545
00:36:04,373 --> 00:36:07,813
Speaker 5: that completely ignores the other working groups that have spent

546
00:36:07,893 --> 00:36:13,693
Speaker 5: time talking about things that makes sense. It's people like

547
00:36:13,853 --> 00:36:21,453
Speaker 5: James Shaw who have got a fundamental view on climate

548
00:36:21,493 --> 00:36:24,773
Speaker 5: science and how it should be operating, have got no

549
00:36:24,933 --> 00:36:26,933
Speaker 5: place talking about science at all.

550
00:36:27,293 --> 00:36:31,333
Speaker 4: They've that just doesn't have the bandwidth to cover it.

551
00:36:31,853 --> 00:36:34,733
Speaker 5: And for him to sit there and change policy and

552
00:36:34,773 --> 00:36:38,013
Speaker 5: be the head of something that is changing the way

553
00:36:38,053 --> 00:36:43,333
Speaker 5: that certainly kiwis operate and take tax money off people

554
00:36:43,413 --> 00:36:46,853
Speaker 5: to spend on something should at least have a passing

555
00:36:47,493 --> 00:36:50,853
Speaker 5: understanding of what's actually going on and be honest. I

556
00:36:50,853 --> 00:36:54,333
Speaker 5: guess that's an interesting term too for politicians, but it

557
00:36:54,373 --> 00:36:59,053
Speaker 5: would be refreshing to see a politician that had an

558
00:36:59,133 --> 00:37:02,333
Speaker 5: understanding of something in the real world and could handle

559
00:37:02,333 --> 00:37:05,413
Speaker 5: on stand there and just be honest about it.

560
00:37:05,853 --> 00:37:07,933
Speaker 4: It's on here being sure it was awful.

561
00:37:09,853 --> 00:37:14,133
Speaker 2: Well, there's a word I'd like to use with regards

562
00:37:14,133 --> 00:37:18,773
Speaker 2: to James Shaw, but I probably shouldn't. But if you

563
00:37:18,973 --> 00:37:24,093
Speaker 2: if you're looking for a politician who who has the capacity,

564
00:37:25,013 --> 00:37:28,533
Speaker 2: then you've missed the boat because I'm referring to Rodney Hyde,

565
00:37:28,693 --> 00:37:35,533
Speaker 2: the only, if you like, individual in Parliament who had

566
00:37:35,573 --> 00:37:41,573
Speaker 2: the ability to analyze and discuss and decide on this matter.

567
00:37:42,413 --> 00:37:42,773
Speaker 4: I think you.

568
00:37:42,893 --> 00:37:48,013
Speaker 5: I think you're right, but for various captain's calls, just

569
00:37:48,053 --> 00:37:50,933
Speaker 5: a cinder dune's captain call on the oil and gas

570
00:37:52,293 --> 00:37:55,293
Speaker 5: industry in New Zealand just about wrecked us as far

571
00:37:55,413 --> 00:38:00,213
Speaker 5: as as far as the energy requirements that we need

572
00:38:00,973 --> 00:38:06,573
Speaker 5: as a nation, almost wrecked us. The long term effects

573
00:38:06,613 --> 00:38:11,013
Speaker 5: of that decision will prevent us developing our oil fields

574
00:38:11,053 --> 00:38:16,053
Speaker 5: for decades. And it was an absolutely appalling, an appalling

575
00:38:16,093 --> 00:38:18,613
Speaker 5: decision based on zero understanding of the.

576
00:38:18,573 --> 00:38:26,053
Speaker 2: Science, zero understanding of much else as much. I think that,

577
00:38:26,373 --> 00:38:30,053
Speaker 2: noting the discussion that was around on Monday morning of

578
00:38:30,093 --> 00:38:33,773
Speaker 2: this week, so that would be the fifth of August.

579
00:38:34,973 --> 00:38:38,573
Speaker 2: With regard to infrastructure in the situation that New Zealand

580
00:38:38,613 --> 00:38:41,053
Speaker 2: finds itself in, I think you can shoot much of

581
00:38:41,093 --> 00:38:45,973
Speaker 2: the present situation back to that statement, and not entirely,

582
00:38:46,373 --> 00:38:48,333
Speaker 2: but enough of it to be worthy of mention.

583
00:38:49,733 --> 00:38:50,373
Speaker 4: I agree.

584
00:38:50,813 --> 00:38:54,493
Speaker 5: It's the fact that we can't make our own bitumen

585
00:38:55,373 --> 00:38:57,453
Speaker 5: in New Zealand anymore, that we have to pull it

586
00:38:57,453 --> 00:39:00,853
Speaker 5: in from overseas in extraordinary cost just to keep the

587
00:39:00,853 --> 00:39:02,413
Speaker 5: stuff from silifying on the water.

588
00:39:03,733 --> 00:39:04,773
Speaker 4: There's nuts.

589
00:39:05,933 --> 00:39:08,733
Speaker 2: And it's just then there was the air fuel supply

590
00:39:08,853 --> 00:39:13,533
Speaker 2: line from from up north down to the airport that

591
00:39:13,293 --> 00:39:17,213
Speaker 2: that has made it made a very rapid exit from

592
00:39:17,453 --> 00:39:22,253
Speaker 2: from this world and this life. It was just it

593
00:39:22,293 --> 00:39:23,733
Speaker 2: was insanity, to be honest.

594
00:39:25,493 --> 00:39:27,973
Speaker 5: It is it's it's the it's the madness of crowds

595
00:39:27,973 --> 00:39:31,093
Speaker 5: all over, and it's it's the number of people that

596
00:39:31,333 --> 00:39:35,573
Speaker 5: supported removal of that pipeline because of the dangers of

597
00:39:37,853 --> 00:39:41,933
Speaker 5: aviation fuel and forgetting about the necessity of as well,

598
00:39:41,973 --> 00:39:44,893
Speaker 5: and there's no balance between those two things. It's it

599
00:39:44,973 --> 00:39:48,533
Speaker 5: might be that fossil fuel is the most disgusting, horrible

600
00:39:49,293 --> 00:39:52,733
Speaker 5: thing we've ever created, but as far as energy self

601
00:39:52,773 --> 00:39:57,413
Speaker 5: sufficiency goes, it's the best we've got. And to to

602
00:39:57,453 --> 00:40:02,093
Speaker 5: try and just remove it from our world it just

603
00:40:02,133 --> 00:40:02,853
Speaker 5: makes no sense.

604
00:40:02,893 --> 00:40:04,533
Speaker 4: There is no there is no sense.

605
00:40:04,573 --> 00:40:08,093
Speaker 5: We should get more and more efficienty using it and

606
00:40:08,133 --> 00:40:12,053
Speaker 5: in workout ways of doing it cleaner and cleaner, which

607
00:40:12,093 --> 00:40:18,733
Speaker 5: we have been doing for generations, and gradually gradually wean

608
00:40:18,773 --> 00:40:22,213
Speaker 5: ourselves offered over over hundreds of years and not decades

609
00:40:22,293 --> 00:40:25,253
Speaker 5: or lease. And in the pain that we're going to

610
00:40:25,293 --> 00:40:29,053
Speaker 5: feel if this continues is going to be very dramatic

611
00:40:29,133 --> 00:40:29,733
Speaker 5: for our kids.

612
00:40:30,293 --> 00:40:34,053
Speaker 2: Good of course, CO two is only one is only one.

613
00:40:34,133 --> 00:40:40,413
Speaker 2: Aspect of greenhouse gases methane. There has been a lot

614
00:40:40,413 --> 00:40:44,413
Speaker 2: of discussion about methane, and there have been some extremely

615
00:40:44,573 --> 00:40:50,093
Speaker 2: qualified scientists who have said, giving, giving, giving all the

616
00:40:50,133 --> 00:40:55,493
Speaker 2: reasons why methane is not a threat, what does a geologist.

617
00:40:54,973 --> 00:40:59,413
Speaker 5: Say, Well, there's a there's a few things to break

618
00:40:59,453 --> 00:41:02,693
Speaker 5: down around methane, but the primary one is that methane's

619
00:41:03,573 --> 00:41:08,853
Speaker 5: life cycle is extraordinarily short, and it turns into vapor

620
00:41:08,893 --> 00:41:12,413
Speaker 5: and carbon dioxide very very quickly. So any methane that's

621
00:41:12,453 --> 00:41:17,853
Speaker 5: in our environment breaks down extraordinary, extraordinary fast and has

622
00:41:17,973 --> 00:41:22,973
Speaker 5: almost zero effect on any kind of warming potential at all.

623
00:41:23,453 --> 00:41:26,293
Speaker 5: But the main thing about methane that is always forgotten,

624
00:41:26,333 --> 00:41:29,213
Speaker 5: and this is something that if we were being honest,

625
00:41:29,853 --> 00:41:33,933
Speaker 5: New Zealand would already be absorbing more carbon dioxide than

626
00:41:33,973 --> 00:41:38,893
Speaker 5: it produces if we would just include grassland in the

627
00:41:39,293 --> 00:41:43,453
Speaker 5: accounting for where the carbon dioxide goes. We ignore grassland,

628
00:41:43,573 --> 00:41:47,853
Speaker 5: so we don't take into account the amount of carbon

629
00:41:47,893 --> 00:41:50,813
Speaker 5: dioxide that gets trapped in New Zealand soils every year.

630
00:41:52,613 --> 00:41:56,373
Speaker 5: We ignore the fact that almost all of our cattle

631
00:41:56,413 --> 00:41:59,973
Speaker 5: and the methane produced is from grass that has already

632
00:42:00,013 --> 00:42:03,493
Speaker 5: absorbed carbon dioxide. From the atmosphere almost on a one

633
00:42:03,493 --> 00:42:08,173
Speaker 5: to one molecule basis. But every piece of methane that

634
00:42:08,373 --> 00:42:11,693
Speaker 5: comes from a cow is one tenth of the amount

635
00:42:11,693 --> 00:42:15,373
Speaker 5: that it's ingested. So the most of the carbon dioxide

636
00:42:15,373 --> 00:42:17,733
Speaker 5: that a cow absorbs is turned into meat or wool

637
00:42:17,813 --> 00:42:21,293
Speaker 5: or milk or all of the other parts of a cow,

638
00:42:22,013 --> 00:42:24,653
Speaker 5: and only something close to eight or nine percent of

639
00:42:24,653 --> 00:42:30,333
Speaker 5: it is emitted is methane. And it's a negative. It's

640
00:42:31,133 --> 00:42:34,693
Speaker 5: a reduction in carbon dioxide, not an increase. But because

641
00:42:34,733 --> 00:42:37,613
Speaker 5: the carbon accounting is done in such a way that

642
00:42:37,693 --> 00:42:42,933
Speaker 5: any methane is considered bad our herds looking to be

643
00:42:43,013 --> 00:42:46,173
Speaker 5: cold over the next decades, which is.

644
00:42:47,653 --> 00:42:48,693
Speaker 4: Absolute nonsense.

645
00:42:49,493 --> 00:42:50,173
Speaker 2: Garbage.

646
00:42:50,773 --> 00:42:51,773
Speaker 4: It is total garbage.

647
00:42:51,773 --> 00:42:55,013
Speaker 5: Even if you look at the science behind methane, carbon

648
00:42:55,013 --> 00:42:59,093
Speaker 5: dioxide and water vapor being greenhouse gases, the amount of

649
00:42:59,693 --> 00:43:04,253
Speaker 5: warming that methane can do is so so trivial that

650
00:43:04,293 --> 00:43:10,253
Speaker 5: even if we increase methane a thousandfold, it can't do anything.

651
00:43:10,413 --> 00:43:15,853
Speaker 5: It literally, it literally can't cause any extra warming beyond

652
00:43:15,893 --> 00:43:19,973
Speaker 5: a fraction of a degree. If if that it's it's

653
00:43:20,573 --> 00:43:23,373
Speaker 5: the idea, the notion of it is is so middle

654
00:43:23,373 --> 00:43:27,173
Speaker 5: heated that it's it's almost laughable, And it would be

655
00:43:27,213 --> 00:43:29,653
Speaker 5: laughable if we weren't spending so much money trying to

656
00:43:29,693 --> 00:43:30,293
Speaker 5: prevent it.

657
00:43:31,213 --> 00:43:35,133
Speaker 2: Now, the second book is let's run run through that again.

658
00:43:35,813 --> 00:43:41,613
Speaker 2: The second book is basically about your what I would

659
00:43:41,613 --> 00:43:43,653
Speaker 2: I be unfair because I don't have a copy? I

660
00:43:43,693 --> 00:43:47,253
Speaker 2: haven't seen one because there isn't one. But would it

661
00:43:47,253 --> 00:43:50,013
Speaker 2: be unfair to say that this is your the three

662
00:43:50,053 --> 00:43:54,813
Speaker 2: of you and your interpretation of where things are going?

663
00:43:55,613 --> 00:43:59,093
Speaker 5: Yes, that would be a fear. That would be a fear. Summary.

664
00:43:59,293 --> 00:44:02,653
Speaker 5: We we reference parts of the different sciences.

665
00:44:04,093 --> 00:44:07,253
Speaker 4: We reference things like the I P. C. C. And

666
00:44:07,413 --> 00:44:08,933
Speaker 4: where it's good and where it's not good.

667
00:44:09,093 --> 00:44:09,813
Speaker 6: And we book a.

668
00:44:09,773 --> 00:44:14,133
Speaker 5: Lot about the different policies that various countries have made

669
00:44:14,773 --> 00:44:20,653
Speaker 5: and the cost of those policies and how it's keeping

670
00:44:20,653 --> 00:44:25,373
Speaker 5: people as ignorant as possible of climate and just to

671
00:44:25,453 --> 00:44:29,493
Speaker 5: believe whatever assertion comes out of whoever's trying to increase

672
00:44:29,653 --> 00:44:32,333
Speaker 5: some sort of tax or some sort of spend on.

673
00:44:33,773 --> 00:44:36,973
Speaker 4: Some kind of green related industry or.

674
00:44:38,693 --> 00:44:43,413
Speaker 5: Environmental concern, that that isn't really an environmental concern. So

675
00:44:44,053 --> 00:44:48,093
Speaker 5: we spend a bit of time opining about that, but

676
00:44:48,253 --> 00:44:52,213
Speaker 5: basing it on the first book, which is pulling the

677
00:44:52,253 --> 00:44:55,173
Speaker 5: science apart, so we show how those things are all linked.

678
00:44:56,453 --> 00:44:59,333
Speaker 2: So there was a there was a definitive connection between

679
00:44:59,333 --> 00:45:04,053
Speaker 2: the two books. Yes, right, So staying with the political

680
00:45:04,093 --> 00:45:07,893
Speaker 2: side of things, what's your well, you've give us some

681
00:45:08,013 --> 00:45:14,093
Speaker 2: indic what's your current opinion of the current government and

682
00:45:14,493 --> 00:45:15,213
Speaker 2: where it's at.

683
00:45:17,733 --> 00:45:20,093
Speaker 4: I'm ever hopeful that.

684
00:45:21,533 --> 00:45:25,093
Speaker 5: They will they will shift away from this position, but

685
00:45:25,213 --> 00:45:27,493
Speaker 5: I feel that they're going to rearrange the deck chairs

686
00:45:27,533 --> 00:45:29,973
Speaker 5: on the Titanic. That we won't pull out of the

687
00:45:29,973 --> 00:45:36,533
Speaker 5: Paris Accords, for example, completely, that we won't we will

688
00:45:36,853 --> 00:45:39,693
Speaker 5: or as a country we will continue to vilify carbon

689
00:45:39,733 --> 00:45:44,613
Speaker 5: dioxide and talk about the ets and and health. Farmers

690
00:45:45,293 --> 00:45:48,533
Speaker 5: have got more of a burden to shoulder than other

691
00:45:48,613 --> 00:45:52,493
Speaker 5: folk for the use of fuels that generate carbon dioxide.

692
00:45:52,533 --> 00:45:55,813
Speaker 5: I don't think anything's really changed. Some of the languaging

693
00:45:55,853 --> 00:46:01,693
Speaker 5: has softened and isn't so dramatic, But I don't see

694
00:46:01,693 --> 00:46:04,453
Speaker 5: any policy changes coming of any substance.

695
00:46:05,413 --> 00:46:11,173
Speaker 2: I look to Holland as an example, and Germany, but

696
00:46:11,613 --> 00:46:13,773
Speaker 2: in Europe in general, if you like, But Holland, Holland

697
00:46:13,773 --> 00:46:18,373
Speaker 2: has led the way and continues to with farmers who

698
00:46:18,693 --> 00:46:23,253
Speaker 2: will not tolerate what they're being dealt, and they won't

699
00:46:23,293 --> 00:46:26,573
Speaker 2: go they won't lie down and die without protesting as

700
00:46:26,973 --> 00:46:30,173
Speaker 2: much as they possibly can. And there is a there

701
00:46:30,213 --> 00:46:33,213
Speaker 2: is a sort of I suppose you could say, an

702
00:46:33,253 --> 00:46:37,733
Speaker 2: economic war going on in Holland at the moment, has

703
00:46:37,773 --> 00:46:41,653
Speaker 2: been for a while. Is there the strength of shall

704
00:46:41,693 --> 00:46:45,813
Speaker 2: I say, character, in enough New Zealand farmers to take

705
00:46:45,853 --> 00:46:48,733
Speaker 2: them on the powers that be more than they have?

706
00:46:50,813 --> 00:46:53,213
Speaker 5: I think there is. I think some of the issue

707
00:46:54,173 --> 00:46:58,733
Speaker 5: in New Zealand is that even though farmers are being hit,

708
00:46:58,853 --> 00:47:03,093
Speaker 5: there's still enough money to survive, and so they're holding.

709
00:47:02,813 --> 00:47:04,453
Speaker 4: Off rocking the boat.

710
00:47:04,653 --> 00:47:11,933
Speaker 5: And if I was to give permission for farmers to

711
00:47:12,373 --> 00:47:14,613
Speaker 5: rock the boat as hard as they could, I think

712
00:47:14,773 --> 00:47:16,613
Speaker 5: I think that they should. I think they should make

713
00:47:16,613 --> 00:47:20,813
Speaker 5: a point, very very strongly that farming is still the

714
00:47:20,853 --> 00:47:24,973
Speaker 5: backbone of our nation and it's unreasonable for them to

715
00:47:25,093 --> 00:47:30,413
Speaker 5: be bearing the brunt of what is a fallacious a

716
00:47:30,413 --> 00:47:35,573
Speaker 5: fallacious argument. And seeing the policy changes from all manner

717
00:47:35,613 --> 00:47:38,373
Speaker 5: of things like changing the fertilizers that can be used

718
00:47:38,853 --> 00:47:42,533
Speaker 5: to prevent nitrates in things I'm getting into the atmosphere

719
00:47:42,573 --> 00:47:45,453
Speaker 5: and the waterways, the waterways I agree with. I think

720
00:47:45,493 --> 00:47:49,653
Speaker 5: that that should be a light touch. But farmers and

721
00:47:49,733 --> 00:47:54,173
Speaker 5: in methane is a non argument, and I think I

722
00:47:54,173 --> 00:47:57,933
Speaker 5: would love to see them rise up and actually spend

723
00:47:57,933 --> 00:48:02,613
Speaker 5: a week protesting and stopping milk production and or dumping milk.

724
00:48:03,293 --> 00:48:05,933
Speaker 5: I maybe remember in the eighties where farmers were dumping

725
00:48:05,933 --> 00:48:11,653
Speaker 5: milk and protesting properly on hoping that we haven't turned

726
00:48:11,653 --> 00:48:16,573
Speaker 5: into a weak world nation around this type of thing,

727
00:48:16,693 --> 00:48:19,973
Speaker 5: that farmers should stand up and take their place with pride,

728
00:48:20,133 --> 00:48:24,733
Speaker 5: that they should be able to do what's right for

729
00:48:24,813 --> 00:48:28,493
Speaker 5: the country without being penalized and punished.

730
00:48:28,093 --> 00:48:30,013
Speaker 4: And vilified themselves.

731
00:48:29,733 --> 00:48:32,733
Speaker 5: It strikes me that we may have lost the will

732
00:48:33,453 --> 00:48:36,173
Speaker 5: to fight back, and I certainly hope it's not true.

733
00:48:37,533 --> 00:48:39,973
Speaker 2: Just remind us what the cause was back in the eighties.

734
00:48:41,613 --> 00:48:44,333
Speaker 5: Look back in the eighties, I was ten or twelve

735
00:48:44,413 --> 00:48:48,653
Speaker 5: or something, and I just remember mountains of milking being

736
00:48:48,893 --> 00:48:53,933
Speaker 5: dumped into rivers regularly, and I remember wondering exactly what

737
00:48:53,973 --> 00:48:54,973
Speaker 5: that was all about.

738
00:48:55,133 --> 00:48:56,973
Speaker 4: But I literally don't remember why.

739
00:48:57,613 --> 00:49:01,733
Speaker 2: I'll find out and added form both of us.

740
00:49:02,493 --> 00:49:04,853
Speaker 5: Yeah, I just remember little things like that happening. I

741
00:49:04,853 --> 00:49:07,093
Speaker 5: don't remember if it was if it was the government

742
00:49:07,173 --> 00:49:09,973
Speaker 5: dumping milk, or whether it was arms protesting. But I

743
00:49:10,013 --> 00:49:12,573
Speaker 5: do remember somebody dumping a load of manure on the

744
00:49:12,573 --> 00:49:14,853
Speaker 5: steps of Parliament at some point with the tractor, and

745
00:49:15,413 --> 00:49:17,613
Speaker 5: I thought that was kind of cool. That's a that's

746
00:49:17,653 --> 00:49:19,813
Speaker 5: a statement that gets some good headlines, and I can

747
00:49:19,853 --> 00:49:22,933
Speaker 5: see people getting behind that. But what the French farmers

748
00:49:22,933 --> 00:49:26,733
Speaker 5: and the Dutch farmers did where they took to the

749
00:49:26,773 --> 00:49:32,253
Speaker 5: streets and absolutely protested, was.

750
00:49:30,733 --> 00:49:33,893
Speaker 4: Was I think what is required to wake this nation up?

751
00:49:34,933 --> 00:49:40,213
Speaker 2: Well, maybe your two books will contribute to that, stony hope.

752
00:49:40,253 --> 00:49:42,613
Speaker 5: So if nothing else, if it gets a few people

753
00:49:42,693 --> 00:49:46,373
Speaker 5: to understand that that that strange feeling that they've got,

754
00:49:46,373 --> 00:49:51,133
Speaker 5: that there's something not quite right, that there was reasons

755
00:49:51,173 --> 00:49:53,213
Speaker 5: for it, and then they can look at the graphs

756
00:49:53,213 --> 00:49:55,893
Speaker 5: that have popped up on TV and see why the

757
00:49:55,973 --> 00:49:57,413
Speaker 5: graph doesn't quite say what.

758
00:49:57,533 --> 00:50:02,213
Speaker 4: The commentator says. That says that would be a useful win.

759
00:50:02,773 --> 00:50:05,293
Speaker 2: What would be the for both books? What would be

760
00:50:05,333 --> 00:50:10,053
Speaker 2: the age the lower age limit that you would suggest.

761
00:50:11,333 --> 00:50:12,693
Speaker 4: It'd have to be at high school.

762
00:50:12,733 --> 00:50:16,453
Speaker 5: I would suggest that anything younger than younger than maybe

763
00:50:17,893 --> 00:50:19,533
Speaker 5: I was going to say fifth form, but year eleven

764
00:50:20,333 --> 00:50:21,733
Speaker 5: might start getting a little tough.

765
00:50:22,453 --> 00:50:25,973
Speaker 4: But it's not that tough.

766
00:50:26,093 --> 00:50:29,653
Speaker 5: So I would say anything from fifteen and up, and

767
00:50:29,973 --> 00:50:33,893
Speaker 5: you'll get some kids that you know from eight to

768
00:50:34,013 --> 00:50:36,293
Speaker 5: ten will probably get something out of it as well

769
00:50:36,333 --> 00:50:37,413
Speaker 5: that it might.

770
00:50:37,293 --> 00:50:38,133
Speaker 4: Help them question.

771
00:50:39,373 --> 00:50:44,693
Speaker 5: Ideally, it'll be parents that will will get the understanding

772
00:50:44,733 --> 00:50:46,693
Speaker 5: so that when their kids come home from school with

773
00:50:46,853 --> 00:50:50,573
Speaker 5: some weird ideas, that they've been trained and they can

774
00:50:50,693 --> 00:50:55,533
Speaker 5: counter it. And it's encounter it with some authority, which

775
00:50:55,733 --> 00:50:59,573
Speaker 5: would probably help a lot. You know, our kids are

776
00:51:00,093 --> 00:51:03,693
Speaker 5: wonderful little sponges that get to believe and get told

777
00:51:03,813 --> 00:51:06,533
Speaker 5: or manner of things at school, and they're expected just

778
00:51:06,573 --> 00:51:10,213
Speaker 5: to believe what they're told with our questioning is both

779
00:51:10,293 --> 00:51:12,973
Speaker 5: both you and I probably remember from school. Questioning doesn't

780
00:51:13,093 --> 00:51:17,493
Speaker 5: It doesn't necessarily get you for And so if we

781
00:51:17,533 --> 00:51:22,933
Speaker 5: can have our parents trained to to re educate kids

782
00:51:23,213 --> 00:51:24,933
Speaker 5: at home, that would be a useful thing.

783
00:51:25,933 --> 00:51:31,573
Speaker 2: Something just entered my mind. I wonder whether supplying a

784
00:51:31,613 --> 00:51:34,333
Speaker 2: few schools, and they'd have to be they'd be good

785
00:51:34,373 --> 00:51:39,733
Speaker 2: schools obviously, with copies of the books for teaching purposes

786
00:51:41,333 --> 00:51:45,653
Speaker 2: might be an advantageous thing. Now I'm not suggesting, I'm

787
00:51:45,653 --> 00:51:48,693
Speaker 2: not suggesting you should give them away, but maybe there's

788
00:51:49,093 --> 00:51:54,053
Speaker 2: maybe there's somebody listening who at their stage of life

789
00:51:54,173 --> 00:51:58,133
Speaker 2: has a few a few coins lying around that they

790
00:51:58,693 --> 00:52:02,933
Speaker 2: they're looking for something something positive to do with. Would

791
00:52:03,093 --> 00:52:07,733
Speaker 2: would contribute to purchasing some and we could set up

792
00:52:07,773 --> 00:52:11,453
Speaker 2: it would be we could set up a system whereby

793
00:52:11,933 --> 00:52:15,293
Speaker 2: those schools could be notified and respond accordingly.

794
00:52:16,373 --> 00:52:16,813
Speaker 4: That would be.

795
00:52:16,893 --> 00:52:19,893
Speaker 5: That would be amazing, It would it would literally be amazing.

796
00:52:20,053 --> 00:52:22,213
Speaker 5: I've gone into a lot of schools to speak about

797
00:52:22,293 --> 00:52:28,493
Speaker 5: various aspics of geology and science, many many, many times.

798
00:52:29,453 --> 00:52:30,893
Speaker 4: In love doing it.

799
00:52:30,893 --> 00:52:34,573
Speaker 5: I'd happily go and and talk to schools about trbon

800
00:52:34,613 --> 00:52:38,413
Speaker 5: dioxide and how it really how it really operates.

801
00:52:38,493 --> 00:52:42,613
Speaker 2: Just to conclude, I've opened I've opened your books, just randomly,

802
00:52:43,733 --> 00:52:46,973
Speaker 2: and I'm on page two hundred and sixty eight. Awarded

803
00:52:46,973 --> 00:52:49,773
Speaker 2: in twenty ten the Wolf Prize in Physics, the second

804
00:52:49,773 --> 00:52:58,773
Speaker 2: most prestigious physics award. Doctor Klauser by Doctor Klauser argues

805
00:52:58,893 --> 00:53:04,493
Speaker 2: that climate pseudoscience has been promoted and extended by misguided

806
00:53:04,573 --> 00:53:12,613
Speaker 2: business marketing agents, politicians, journalists, government agencies, and environmentalists. In

807
00:53:12,613 --> 00:53:15,533
Speaker 2: my opinion, he said, there is no real climate crisis.

808
00:53:16,053 --> 00:53:19,213
Speaker 2: There is, however, a very real problem with providing a

809
00:53:19,253 --> 00:53:23,053
Speaker 2: decent standard of living to the world's largest population, and

810
00:53:23,133 --> 00:53:28,293
Speaker 2: an associated energy crisis. The latter is being unnecessarily exacerbated

811
00:53:28,333 --> 00:53:33,373
Speaker 2: by what, in my opinion, is incorrect climate science. Keeping

812
00:53:33,413 --> 00:53:35,213
Speaker 2: in mind he's not a climate scientist, but he is

813
00:53:35,253 --> 00:53:37,773
Speaker 2: a physicist, and he won the Nobel Prize about to

814
00:53:37,813 --> 00:53:42,733
Speaker 2: three years ago. Isn't it strange that the physicist and

815
00:53:42,853 --> 00:53:45,373
Speaker 2: chemists of this world seemed to have a very good

816
00:53:45,493 --> 00:53:50,213
Speaker 2: understanding of what's going on, understand equilibrium and therbal dynamics,

817
00:53:50,493 --> 00:53:54,773
Speaker 2: which are the core forces in gas behavior. The World

818
00:53:54,813 --> 00:53:57,893
Speaker 2: Climate Declaration has been signed by around three hundred climate

819
00:53:57,933 --> 00:54:02,133
Speaker 2: professors and states the following there is no climate emergency

820
00:54:03,373 --> 00:54:07,773
Speaker 2: close quote. The lead signatory is the Nobel Laureate professor

821
00:54:07,893 --> 00:54:13,213
Speaker 2: Iver gave her Climate models are said to be not

822
00:54:13,373 --> 00:54:18,373
Speaker 2: remotely plausible as global policy tools. They exaggerate the effect

823
00:54:18,413 --> 00:54:21,373
Speaker 2: of greenhouse gases such as carbon dioxide, but ignore any

824
00:54:21,373 --> 00:54:27,413
Speaker 2: beneficial effect. The declaration states, and finally, climate science has

825
00:54:27,493 --> 00:54:32,413
Speaker 2: degenerated into a discussion based on beliefs, not a sound,

826
00:54:32,933 --> 00:54:38,533
Speaker 2: self critical science. And that was the award winning professor.

827
00:54:39,053 --> 00:54:41,813
Speaker 4: And not a thing wrong with that statement either.

828
00:54:42,093 --> 00:54:46,373
Speaker 2: No, I want to congratulate you and you and your

829
00:54:46,413 --> 00:54:50,213
Speaker 2: fellow contributors. Thank you both, Allen Trotter and Mike Senk.

830
00:54:50,813 --> 00:54:53,933
Speaker 2: I think you've done a superb job and I can't

831
00:54:53,933 --> 00:54:57,413
Speaker 2: wait to get my hands on the second volume, and

832
00:54:57,493 --> 00:54:59,693
Speaker 2: you will advise me when it's available.

833
00:54:59,933 --> 00:55:03,333
Speaker 5: I will as as soon as I've got the going

834
00:55:03,373 --> 00:55:06,213
Speaker 5: huge from Amazon, I'll let you know exactly what it is.

835
00:55:06,213 --> 00:55:08,213
Speaker 5: It'll be on our website as well. We've got a

836
00:55:08,493 --> 00:55:12,173
Speaker 5: site called climate actually dot com and all the links

837
00:55:12,213 --> 00:55:15,053
Speaker 5: to the books and things like that will be beyond

838
00:55:15,053 --> 00:55:17,213
Speaker 5: me and Mike's going to be doing a newsleader which

839
00:55:17,213 --> 00:55:20,773
Speaker 5: we'll post through that and so that that that website

840
00:55:20,853 --> 00:55:23,213
Speaker 5: will be will be a starting point for a lot

841
00:55:23,253 --> 00:55:23,893
Speaker 5: of people.

842
00:55:23,773 --> 00:55:27,093
Speaker 2: Will power to your books, to your website, to your him.

843
00:55:28,093 --> 00:55:30,853
Speaker 4: Thank you so much. It was it was an absolute pleasure.

844
00:55:30,893 --> 00:55:31,573
Speaker 4: Thank you very much.

845
00:55:31,613 --> 00:55:31,893
Speaker 2: Andrew.

846
00:55:31,933 --> 00:55:42,653
Speaker 7: Great to talk to you. Thanks God, pleasure.

847
00:55:52,093 --> 00:55:55,813
Speaker 2: Brian Leyland is a power systems engineer. He's got sixty

848
00:55:55,893 --> 00:56:01,093
Speaker 2: years experience around the world and in New Zealand, and

849
00:56:01,413 --> 00:56:03,573
Speaker 2: he and I have been talking on and off for

850
00:56:04,013 --> 00:56:06,013
Speaker 2: any number of years. I can't remember, but there's been

851
00:56:06,053 --> 00:56:09,213
Speaker 2: a while. Brian. It's it's good to have you on

852
00:56:09,213 --> 00:56:12,133
Speaker 2: a podcast. I was going to say the crisis, but

853
00:56:12,133 --> 00:56:14,053
Speaker 2: we're not really in a crisis. We're on the edge

854
00:56:14,053 --> 00:56:16,333
Speaker 2: of a crisis, aren't we. There was a big spike

855
00:56:17,013 --> 00:56:20,773
Speaker 2: in the wholesale electricity price yesterday and you've just told

856
00:56:20,773 --> 00:56:22,533
Speaker 2: me that it's on again today.

857
00:56:23,733 --> 00:56:28,373
Speaker 6: Yep, that's right. For the last week pretty well, prices

858
00:56:28,453 --> 00:56:32,293
Speaker 6: have been over this wholesale market have been over a

859
00:56:32,333 --> 00:56:34,613
Speaker 6: dollar a killer what hour, which is three times a

860
00:56:34,653 --> 00:56:38,333
Speaker 6: domestic price, And yesterday and again today they've gone up

861
00:56:38,333 --> 00:56:41,013
Speaker 6: to a dollar sixty per killer what hour. This is

862
00:56:41,053 --> 00:56:44,893
Speaker 6: not something that can continue without a disaster of some sort.

863
00:56:45,413 --> 00:56:46,493
Speaker 2: How did this come about?

864
00:56:46,813 --> 00:56:52,133
Speaker 6: Two reasons. Basically, the electricity market model that was chosen

865
00:56:52,253 --> 00:56:56,493
Speaker 6: in nineteen ninety six was against the advice for consultants

866
00:56:56,573 --> 00:57:00,893
Speaker 6: who advised on an alternative model called a single buyer model,

867
00:57:01,293 --> 00:57:05,293
Speaker 6: which they were sure would work anyway. They also offered

868
00:57:05,493 --> 00:57:08,133
Speaker 6: this particular model and warned that it was more risky,

869
00:57:08,893 --> 00:57:13,413
Speaker 6: and the wholesale Market Development Group chosen and we're now

870
00:57:13,453 --> 00:57:17,453
Speaker 6: seeing the predictable consequences. The market is behaving is exactly

871
00:57:17,493 --> 00:57:20,413
Speaker 6: as you would expect from its design. When you get

872
00:57:20,413 --> 00:57:22,053
Speaker 6: a shortage, the prices go up.

873
00:57:22,213 --> 00:57:23,493
Speaker 2: Why did they choose this one.

874
00:57:23,613 --> 00:57:27,293
Speaker 6: Do you think market forces were all in the rage

875
00:57:27,373 --> 00:57:30,373
Speaker 6: and they thought it was a genuine market when it's not.

876
00:57:30,853 --> 00:57:36,453
Speaker 6: And so they would into thinking that if you call

877
00:57:36,493 --> 00:57:40,013
Speaker 6: something a market, it really is a market. If they'd

878
00:57:40,053 --> 00:57:42,613
Speaker 6: look at a bit closer, they would realize that electricity

879
00:57:42,693 --> 00:57:46,133
Speaker 6: is not a market commodity as Adam Smith would know it.

880
00:57:46,413 --> 00:57:49,253
Speaker 2: And that is because there is no alternative.

881
00:57:49,573 --> 00:57:52,933
Speaker 6: There's no alternative, and there's no pricey lstedity. And we

882
00:57:52,973 --> 00:57:55,733
Speaker 6: see that right now the price is sky high, and

883
00:57:55,813 --> 00:57:58,533
Speaker 6: yet the demand hasn't gone down. The demand's actually quite

884
00:57:58,613 --> 00:57:59,893
Speaker 6: high at the moment. All right.

885
00:58:00,133 --> 00:58:04,493
Speaker 2: So I'm as simpleton when it comes to this, and

886
00:58:04,533 --> 00:58:08,013
Speaker 2: i'd suggest I'm in a very large group. So at

887
00:58:08,013 --> 00:58:13,373
Speaker 2: the moment you said we're paying, I'm paying thirty cents

888
00:58:13,533 --> 00:58:17,533
Speaker 2: a killer what hour, which sounds quite reasonable.

889
00:58:17,853 --> 00:58:22,693
Speaker 6: It's higher than it should be, but it's not too unreasonable.

890
00:58:22,693 --> 00:58:27,733
Speaker 2: Okay, And what are they paying in the wholesome mode?

891
00:58:27,733 --> 00:58:30,093
Speaker 2: Who's suffering from this right at this moment?

892
00:58:30,373 --> 00:58:35,013
Speaker 6: The people that are suffering are generators hydrogenerators who are

893
00:58:35,133 --> 00:58:38,173
Speaker 6: short of water and can't generator as much as they've

894
00:58:38,213 --> 00:58:40,893
Speaker 6: contracted to sell, and they're having to buy on the

895
00:58:40,933 --> 00:58:44,653
Speaker 6: spot market. I don't know if for how many of

896
00:58:44,693 --> 00:58:48,293
Speaker 6: them that exist. But also the small retailers who are

897
00:58:48,293 --> 00:58:54,493
Speaker 6: relying on contracts with generators at a certain price, and

898
00:58:54,533 --> 00:58:58,533
Speaker 6: again the generator can't deliver or something goes wrong and suddenly,

899
00:58:59,133 --> 00:59:01,693
Speaker 6: or they haven't bought enough power and suddenly they are

900
00:59:01,693 --> 00:59:04,093
Speaker 6: forced to buy on the spot market and sell at

901
00:59:04,133 --> 00:59:10,493
Speaker 6: their contracted price. Sotil. In that situation, we'll go to

902
00:59:10,533 --> 00:59:14,653
Speaker 6: the war quite quickly. Belly up, belly up, No comeback,

903
00:59:14,973 --> 00:59:15,933
Speaker 6: not as far as I know.

904
00:59:16,533 --> 00:59:22,573
Speaker 2: Okay, So all this is all This is dependent really

905
00:59:23,213 --> 00:59:25,893
Speaker 2: on how much rain we might or might not get.

906
00:59:26,333 --> 00:59:29,013
Speaker 6: Yeah, if we get heavy rain within a month, it

907
00:59:29,053 --> 00:59:33,093
Speaker 6: will go away for this year, but it'll come back

908
00:59:33,733 --> 00:59:37,213
Speaker 6: again next year if it's even moderately dry.

909
00:59:37,573 --> 00:59:39,573
Speaker 2: Right you opened You've sent me some comments last night

910
00:59:39,573 --> 00:59:43,133
Speaker 2: which kept me awake. I my dad, But you opened

911
00:59:43,213 --> 00:59:45,773
Speaker 2: up with saying the present situation is serious in the

912
00:59:45,813 --> 00:59:49,493
Speaker 2: short term and in the long term. In the long term,

913
00:59:49,493 --> 00:59:52,733
Speaker 2: it doesn't. If it doesn't rain soon, the lakes will

914
00:59:52,773 --> 00:59:55,373
Speaker 2: bottom out and will be short of roughly ten percent

915
00:59:55,413 --> 00:59:59,853
Speaker 2: of demand. Ten percent of demand would affect who the

916
00:59:59,893 --> 01:00:01,933
Speaker 2: most well.

917
01:00:02,013 --> 01:00:08,293
Speaker 6: If if this happens, the only option the industry is

918
01:00:08,493 --> 01:00:12,773
Speaker 6: got is the institute rotating but rotating blackouts, and they'll

919
01:00:12,773 --> 01:00:15,773
Speaker 6: have to be very carefully selected. So we don't shut

920
01:00:15,773 --> 01:00:20,053
Speaker 6: down people with dial alsus machines. We mustn't shut down

921
01:00:20,133 --> 01:00:23,173
Speaker 6: dairy companies because I'll have to dumb milk. And there

922
01:00:23,173 --> 01:00:26,253
Speaker 6: are a lot of vital supplies that we've got to

923
01:00:26,373 --> 01:00:30,453
Speaker 6: keep going, so that to a large extent, they will

924
01:00:30,453 --> 01:00:35,453
Speaker 6: be forced to shut down rural feeders, domestic feeders. That's

925
01:00:35,453 --> 01:00:37,413
Speaker 6: the blackout houses rather than industries.

926
01:00:37,613 --> 01:00:39,773
Speaker 2: All right, so what period of time have we got?

927
01:00:40,493 --> 01:00:44,013
Speaker 2: What period of time do we have between now and

928
01:00:44,333 --> 01:00:49,213
Speaker 2: possible blackouts without rain? Four to six weeks normally at

929
01:00:49,213 --> 01:00:51,413
Speaker 2: this time of the year, would we not expect plenty

930
01:00:51,413 --> 01:00:51,773
Speaker 2: of rain?

931
01:00:52,733 --> 01:00:57,733
Speaker 6: No, it comes, Yeah, it's beginning to rain in this

932
01:00:57,893 --> 01:00:59,853
Speaker 6: time of the year, but sometimes it doesn't rain n

933
01:00:59,893 --> 01:01:00,693
Speaker 6: till September.

934
01:01:01,053 --> 01:01:04,853
Speaker 2: If that were the case, would there be a let's

935
01:01:04,853 --> 01:01:08,693
Speaker 2: just say that in September, say the end of Septem timber,

936
01:01:09,053 --> 01:01:11,453
Speaker 2: we got plenty of rain and the lakes started to fill.

937
01:01:12,493 --> 01:01:15,893
Speaker 2: Would that then rectify the situation in time?

938
01:01:16,533 --> 01:01:19,933
Speaker 6: It would rectrofide for this year. But we've got a

939
01:01:19,973 --> 01:01:22,373
Speaker 6: problem in that as a moment, at least, there's not

940
01:01:22,493 --> 01:01:26,213
Speaker 6: much snow on the mountains, so the spring runoff will

941
01:01:26,213 --> 01:01:29,293
Speaker 6: normally get from the melting snow will be less normal,

942
01:01:29,933 --> 01:01:32,293
Speaker 6: and the big problem will be getting the legs full

943
01:01:32,333 --> 01:01:37,573
Speaker 6: again before next autumn when the rain normally backs off.

944
01:01:38,653 --> 01:01:42,253
Speaker 6: And that's going to be very difficult, okay, especially as

945
01:01:44,093 --> 01:01:48,253
Speaker 6: we will probably lose more thermal generation and we'll be

946
01:01:48,373 --> 01:01:50,413
Speaker 6: even shorter of gas than we are now.

947
01:01:50,693 --> 01:01:53,333
Speaker 2: But surely we'll be saved by green power.

948
01:01:54,973 --> 01:01:57,733
Speaker 6: What's going to happen with as we get more and

949
01:01:57,813 --> 01:02:00,973
Speaker 6: more green power, We're going to get periods where the

950
01:02:01,013 --> 01:02:03,173
Speaker 6: wind's blowing and the sunshining and we have a surplace

951
01:02:03,213 --> 01:02:08,173
Speaker 6: of electricity and the price crashes to zero, which is

952
01:02:08,373 --> 01:02:11,613
Speaker 6: happened in the recent post. And when the wind's not

953
01:02:11,733 --> 01:02:15,853
Speaker 6: blowing and the sun's not shining, we'll get blackouts because

954
01:02:15,853 --> 01:02:19,173
Speaker 6: there's nothing nothing there to keep the lights.

955
01:02:18,933 --> 01:02:21,213
Speaker 2: On, nothing to store, no where to store it.

956
01:02:21,493 --> 01:02:25,493
Speaker 6: But what that means is that the solar and wind

957
01:02:25,533 --> 01:02:29,413
Speaker 6: farms will not get too much revenue because much of

958
01:02:29,453 --> 01:02:32,613
Speaker 6: the time when they're generating well, the price will be zero,

959
01:02:32,733 --> 01:02:34,613
Speaker 6: so they will turn out to be less and less

960
01:02:34,653 --> 01:02:38,693
Speaker 6: economic the more we make so the generators, they will

961
01:02:39,093 --> 01:02:41,253
Speaker 6: pick up on this pretty quick and stop building them,

962
01:02:41,293 --> 01:02:42,293
Speaker 6: so it won't have anything.

963
01:02:42,773 --> 01:02:46,133
Speaker 2: Is there the money just thought of this? Is there

964
01:02:46,373 --> 01:02:51,773
Speaker 2: any chance that along this path, at some stage the

965
01:02:51,813 --> 01:03:00,293
Speaker 2: country would be so desperate the government would utilize unusual powers.

966
01:03:00,973 --> 01:03:05,533
Speaker 6: In the worst scenario, It's inevitable because along with the shortage,

967
01:03:05,533 --> 01:03:08,333
Speaker 6: you get high prices, and if they start going even higher,

968
01:03:08,933 --> 01:03:11,173
Speaker 6: it's going to be chaotic. More and more industries will

969
01:03:11,213 --> 01:03:14,013
Speaker 6: shut down, more and more poor people will not have

970
01:03:14,133 --> 01:03:18,093
Speaker 6: enough electricity, and I think the government will just have

971
01:03:18,173 --> 01:03:21,933
Speaker 6: to take over the management of the system and say

972
01:03:22,053 --> 01:03:24,933
Speaker 6: we're going to pay the generators the actual cost of

973
01:03:25,093 --> 01:03:29,413
Speaker 6: generation rather than in fated prices, and we're going to

974
01:03:29,453 --> 01:03:33,573
Speaker 6: regulate the rotating blackouts until this is all over.

975
01:03:34,733 --> 01:03:36,213
Speaker 2: There's a couple of things that I want to pick

976
01:03:36,213 --> 01:03:41,213
Speaker 2: out of what you what you wrote The Taranaki Combined

977
01:03:42,093 --> 01:03:44,933
Speaker 2: cycle station. The situation with that.

978
01:03:46,013 --> 01:03:48,573
Speaker 6: It's a three hundred and eighty a Mega what combined

979
01:03:48,613 --> 01:03:53,653
Speaker 6: cycle station. It's been running for maybe thirty years, and

980
01:03:53,693 --> 01:03:57,173
Speaker 6: it's in need of a major overhaul, which contact are

981
01:03:57,213 --> 01:04:00,373
Speaker 6: not prepared to do because they've got no assurance of

982
01:04:00,453 --> 01:04:04,293
Speaker 6: a continued supply of gas. But from the country's point

983
01:04:04,293 --> 01:04:08,093
Speaker 6: of view, we desperately need it to stay generating using

984
01:04:08,173 --> 01:04:09,893
Speaker 6: up as to a guess.

985
01:04:09,653 --> 01:04:11,293
Speaker 2: And what would be the cost of the overhaul?

986
01:04:11,773 --> 01:04:14,093
Speaker 6: I believe it's in a region of one hundred and

987
01:04:14,173 --> 01:04:14,813
Speaker 6: fifty million.

988
01:04:15,213 --> 01:04:17,733
Speaker 2: I understand why they why they're not not.

989
01:04:17,773 --> 01:04:20,933
Speaker 6: Interested a pretty cheap way of getting three hundred and

990
01:04:20,933 --> 01:04:22,333
Speaker 6: eighty megawes online.

991
01:04:22,813 --> 01:04:26,573
Speaker 2: What would three hundred and eighty megawatts be percentage wise

992
01:04:26,813 --> 01:04:28,973
Speaker 2: for the country's requirements or presence?

993
01:04:30,093 --> 01:04:33,253
Speaker 6: It would go if it could run continuously in the

994
01:04:33,853 --> 01:04:37,933
Speaker 6: quick abundant supply of guess it would go, you know,

995
01:04:38,053 --> 01:04:41,253
Speaker 6: quite a long way towards making up the difficit. Who

996
01:04:41,253 --> 01:04:43,973
Speaker 6: owns it? Contact Energy?

997
01:04:44,533 --> 01:04:46,973
Speaker 2: All right, they own it, but they won't pay for

998
01:04:47,293 --> 01:04:47,893
Speaker 2: upgrading it.

999
01:04:48,493 --> 01:04:50,933
Speaker 6: They can't justify no, well they.

1000
01:04:50,973 --> 01:04:52,973
Speaker 2: Hang on, hang on, hang on. They can't justify it

1001
01:04:53,013 --> 01:04:56,093
Speaker 2: on their on their books. So what you're saying, yeah,

1002
01:04:56,733 --> 01:05:00,573
Speaker 2: so is so? Is there any is there any escape

1003
01:05:00,613 --> 01:05:04,693
Speaker 2: as far as as this is concerned, justifying doing it

1004
01:05:05,733 --> 01:05:10,133
Speaker 2: in another way as in the government pays for it? Oh, sorry,

1005
01:05:10,133 --> 01:05:11,173
Speaker 2: the taxpayer.

1006
01:05:11,173 --> 01:05:15,013
Speaker 6: Made government intervention. But you can say that for New

1007
01:05:15,133 --> 01:05:18,893
Speaker 6: Zealand Inc. It's probably a worthwhile investment. The other thing

1008
01:05:18,973 --> 01:05:23,213
Speaker 6: they could do is it's at the time. It's at

1009
01:05:23,293 --> 01:05:26,413
Speaker 6: the time, it has to be overhauled, and the insurance

1010
01:05:26,413 --> 01:05:30,573
Speaker 6: companies won't insured beyond that because of us breakdown. So

1011
01:05:30,973 --> 01:05:36,613
Speaker 6: the government could say run it and we'll cover the insurance, right,

1012
01:05:36,933 --> 01:05:40,293
Speaker 6: And that's a short term thing, and it's probably reasonably

1013
01:05:40,413 --> 01:05:44,533
Speaker 6: safe to accept the risk of breaking down rather than

1014
01:05:44,573 --> 01:05:46,173
Speaker 6: having it shut down anyway.

1015
01:05:46,293 --> 01:05:52,653
Speaker 2: Okay, so let me just throw in some thoughts. The

1016
01:05:52,693 --> 01:05:59,733
Speaker 2: demand for power is increasing, and we'll go on increasing.

1017
01:06:01,013 --> 01:06:03,453
Speaker 2: How do we handle things like or how are they

1018
01:06:03,493 --> 01:06:07,093
Speaker 2: going to handle things like electric cars?

1019
01:06:07,733 --> 01:06:10,053
Speaker 6: All over the world. Well, the electric car market is

1020
01:06:10,173 --> 01:06:13,213
Speaker 6: dying because people don't want to buy them. Forty six

1021
01:06:13,293 --> 01:06:16,613
Speaker 6: percent of people who own electric cars in the USA

1022
01:06:16,853 --> 01:06:21,293
Speaker 6: wouldn't buy another one, And all over the world people

1023
01:06:21,293 --> 01:06:26,693
Speaker 6: are discovering that the advantages are very small and the

1024
01:06:26,773 --> 01:06:30,133
Speaker 6: disadvantages are quite high. I mean, it's no more than

1025
01:06:30,133 --> 01:06:32,853
Speaker 6: a conventional card with a tiny fuel tank that takes

1026
01:06:32,893 --> 01:06:35,133
Speaker 6: half an hour of film. Who would want one of those?

1027
01:06:36,013 --> 01:06:37,533
Speaker 2: I'm stuffed if I know.

1028
01:06:39,533 --> 01:06:42,133
Speaker 6: And the other thing is that the cost of reducing

1029
01:06:42,253 --> 01:06:46,533
Speaker 6: carbon dioxide using electric cars is very high. It's a

1030
01:06:46,573 --> 01:06:48,653
Speaker 6: bit hard to find out, but it's at least three

1031
01:06:48,733 --> 01:06:52,613
Speaker 6: hundred dollars per ton of carbon dioxide saved. There's better

1032
01:06:52,653 --> 01:06:54,973
Speaker 6: and cheaper ways of saving carbon dioxide.

1033
01:06:55,333 --> 01:06:56,973
Speaker 2: Do you want to Why do we want to save

1034
01:06:57,453 --> 01:06:58,573
Speaker 2: carbon dioxide?

1035
01:07:00,253 --> 01:07:04,613
Speaker 6: Because everybody believes that it changes the climate, never mind

1036
01:07:04,653 --> 01:07:05,173
Speaker 6: that it doesn't.

1037
01:07:06,293 --> 01:07:11,293
Speaker 2: Not everybody, not as we as as we discovered in

1038
01:07:12,053 --> 01:07:18,093
Speaker 2: the previous interview in this podcast, and hopefully hopefully there

1039
01:07:18,093 --> 01:07:21,653
Speaker 2: will be more awakenings. So is there anything else that

1040
01:07:21,773 --> 01:07:23,293
Speaker 2: you what are at?

1041
01:07:23,933 --> 01:07:24,013
Speaker 4: No?

1042
01:07:24,173 --> 01:07:26,693
Speaker 6: I think that comes it. We've just got to cross

1043
01:07:26,733 --> 01:07:30,493
Speaker 6: our thinkers and hope and range and the government should

1044
01:07:30,533 --> 01:07:34,573
Speaker 6: be making sure that it's got plans in hand to

1045
01:07:35,093 --> 01:07:38,093
Speaker 6: move if if it really tends to custom.

1046
01:07:38,533 --> 01:07:43,293
Speaker 2: Have you any knowledge or information on what they might

1047
01:07:43,373 --> 01:07:44,173
Speaker 2: be thinking?

1048
01:07:45,533 --> 01:07:49,813
Speaker 6: All I know is that the Finance Minister is seriously worried.

1049
01:07:50,853 --> 01:07:53,533
Speaker 6: But the Energy Minister didn't get a mention on the

1050
01:07:53,573 --> 01:07:58,173
Speaker 6: news lights note. Why do you think I'm puzzled? There's

1051
01:07:58,173 --> 01:08:00,813
Speaker 6: a lot to be There's a lot to be puzzled about.

1052
01:08:02,013 --> 01:08:05,333
Speaker 6: The Other thing is that the Electricity Authority is supposed

1053
01:08:05,373 --> 01:08:08,853
Speaker 6: to be the guardian of the electricity system, isn't saying

1054
01:08:08,853 --> 01:08:11,093
Speaker 6: a word. There hasn't been anything out of them that

1055
01:08:11,253 --> 01:08:14,293
Speaker 6: mentions the high prices of the problems of the low

1056
01:08:14,373 --> 01:08:15,413
Speaker 6: leg levels.

1057
01:08:15,253 --> 01:08:20,493
Speaker 2: The energy of the electricity authority. Yeah, just outline it

1058
01:08:20,973 --> 01:08:24,373
Speaker 2: for us. How many people and how many people involved.

1059
01:08:25,253 --> 01:08:29,573
Speaker 6: Probably fifty or one hundred people. But they're all due

1060
01:08:29,893 --> 01:08:33,013
Speaker 6: also do with the regulation of the of the market

1061
01:08:33,093 --> 01:08:36,453
Speaker 6: and things like that. So they believe that the market's work.

1062
01:08:36,533 --> 01:08:38,093
Speaker 6: You know, all they're going to do is put sticking

1063
01:08:38,133 --> 01:08:40,813
Speaker 6: past or over it to patch up the bits that

1064
01:08:40,853 --> 01:08:45,533
Speaker 6: aren't working. They're not standing back and saying this has

1065
01:08:45,573 --> 01:08:47,933
Speaker 6: got us in the big problems. What are we going

1066
01:08:48,013 --> 01:08:48,253
Speaker 6: to do?

1067
01:08:49,133 --> 01:08:52,693
Speaker 2: Well? Maybe that's because they haven't got any idea. Yeah,

1068
01:08:52,773 --> 01:08:55,773
Speaker 2: which is consistent, by the way, with so many other

1069
01:08:55,853 --> 01:08:59,853
Speaker 2: aspects of and issues in this in this country. There

1070
01:08:59,893 --> 01:09:01,613
Speaker 2: was one other thing that I that I did want

1071
01:09:01,613 --> 01:09:06,933
Speaker 2: to raise with you, and that is nuclear power. I'm

1072
01:09:07,013 --> 01:09:10,573
Speaker 2: in favor of nuclear power. How many others might there

1073
01:09:10,613 --> 01:09:11,253
Speaker 2: be in my group?

1074
01:09:11,813 --> 01:09:14,933
Speaker 6: I think there's many more of than the public belief.

1075
01:09:15,613 --> 01:09:17,733
Speaker 6: I think most people and you see them, believe that

1076
01:09:17,813 --> 01:09:22,893
Speaker 6: it's outlawed when it's not. The Anti Nuclear Ship's Law

1077
01:09:23,093 --> 01:09:27,813
Speaker 6: was carefully written to allow nuclear power generation. But if

1078
01:09:27,853 --> 01:09:32,573
Speaker 6: you believe in dangerous men made global warming. Nuclear power

1079
01:09:32,653 --> 01:09:36,653
Speaker 6: is the obvious answer, and I cannot understand why the

1080
01:09:36,813 --> 01:09:42,053
Speaker 6: environmentalists and others who are pushing catastrophe of global warming

1081
01:09:42,133 --> 01:09:45,053
Speaker 6: aren't also supporting nuclear power.

1082
01:09:44,253 --> 01:09:48,373
Speaker 2: I know the answer, what is it? They're not very bright?

1083
01:09:50,253 --> 01:09:50,933
Speaker 2: End of story.

1084
01:09:51,813 --> 01:09:55,333
Speaker 6: But I do public talks on net zero quite often,

1085
01:09:55,333 --> 01:09:57,653
Speaker 6: and half and ask the audience if they think we

1086
01:09:57,693 --> 01:10:01,293
Speaker 6: should be considering nuclear power, and usually more than half

1087
01:10:01,333 --> 01:10:03,613
Speaker 6: the hands go up. A lot of people think it

1088
01:10:03,653 --> 01:10:07,373
Speaker 6: should be considered. Well, that's the government should be doing

1089
01:10:07,493 --> 01:10:07,853
Speaker 6: right now.

1090
01:10:07,933 --> 01:10:11,413
Speaker 2: Okay. Well, when I say they're not very bright, I'm limiting,

1091
01:10:11,693 --> 01:10:16,533
Speaker 2: limiting it to what you just said that ruling it

1092
01:10:16,573 --> 01:10:18,413
Speaker 2: out is not very bright.

1093
01:10:19,573 --> 01:10:20,933
Speaker 6: It's stupid in the extreme.

1094
01:10:21,373 --> 01:10:24,653
Speaker 2: You got it, Brian, appreciate it. Thank you, and I

1095
01:10:24,693 --> 01:10:26,493
Speaker 2: hope we don't need to talk again soon, but if

1096
01:10:26,533 --> 01:10:27,053
Speaker 2: we do, we.

1097
01:10:26,973 --> 01:10:29,853
Speaker 6: Will, Okay, I mean, no talking to you.

1098
01:10:29,973 --> 01:10:43,453
Speaker 2: Thanks, thanks so much. Welcome to the mail room for

1099
01:10:43,573 --> 01:10:47,773
Speaker 2: podcast two hundred and fifty, missus producer.

1100
01:10:47,653 --> 01:10:50,933
Speaker 3: And talking of fifty late in two hundred and fifty.

1101
01:10:51,173 --> 01:10:55,173
Speaker 3: Congratulations eighty years, and I mean fifty years in broadcasts.

1102
01:10:55,213 --> 01:10:58,933
Speaker 3: Little down sometimes it feels like it. Not that I've

1103
01:10:58,973 --> 01:11:03,493
Speaker 3: been there all that time, but congratulations. It's a wonderful achievement.

1104
01:11:03,733 --> 01:11:07,333
Speaker 2: Years. You're right, fifty years in broadcasting. The two hundred

1105
01:11:07,373 --> 01:11:10,093
Speaker 2: and fifty is podcas past. And I just see a

1106
01:11:10,173 --> 01:11:12,413
Speaker 2: quick calculation in my head when you said that, and

1107
01:11:12,453 --> 01:11:15,293
Speaker 2: that means you've been you and I have been working

1108
01:11:15,333 --> 01:11:22,533
Speaker 2: together there for thirty six years. Good grief, really, and

1109
01:11:22,613 --> 01:11:25,653
Speaker 2: you look very well for it. Thanks very much. Now,

1110
01:11:25,813 --> 01:11:27,773
Speaker 2: why don't you go for your life?

1111
01:11:28,773 --> 01:11:29,533
Speaker 4: It's a good.

1112
01:11:29,373 --> 01:11:34,413
Speaker 3: Lating, Phil says, just back from three weeks in the USA,

1113
01:11:34,493 --> 01:11:36,253
Speaker 3: and I'm in the process of catching up on the

1114
01:11:36,293 --> 01:11:39,373
Speaker 3: podcasts I missed. Thought you might be interested in what

1115
01:11:39,413 --> 01:11:43,133
Speaker 3: the locals are thinking about the forthcoming election. I landed

1116
01:11:43,133 --> 01:11:46,373
Speaker 3: there barely an hour after the assassination attempt on Trump,

1117
01:11:46,853 --> 01:11:50,093
Speaker 3: and whilst it was obvious all over the media, there

1118
01:11:50,253 --> 01:11:54,613
Speaker 3: was very little discussion about it among the population in general. Likewise,

1119
01:11:54,653 --> 01:11:58,173
Speaker 3: with Biden stepping down, a similar lack of interest was shown.

1120
01:11:59,013 --> 01:12:01,613
Speaker 3: I traveled from Ohio in the north all the way

1121
01:12:01,653 --> 01:12:03,893
Speaker 3: down to Texas, with a few days in Hawaii to

1122
01:12:03,973 --> 01:12:07,453
Speaker 3: finish off, and during that time spent many a convivial

1123
01:12:07,533 --> 01:12:11,773
Speaker 3: hour in bar and such chatting with the locals Whilst

1124
01:12:11,853 --> 01:12:15,773
Speaker 3: the TV was saturated with the Republican v. Democrat battle.

1125
01:12:16,253 --> 01:12:18,773
Speaker 3: Absolutely no mention by the way of Kennedy at all.

1126
01:12:19,253 --> 01:12:21,453
Speaker 3: I only met one local who was open to a

1127
01:12:21,533 --> 01:12:26,093
Speaker 3: chat about the forthcoming election. She was rather knowledgeable, correctly

1128
01:12:26,173 --> 01:12:29,453
Speaker 3: picking who Trump's running mate would be, and gave me

1129
01:12:29,493 --> 01:12:32,613
Speaker 3: a potted history of every dodgy US election going right

1130
01:12:32,653 --> 01:12:36,293
Speaker 3: back to JFK. In the main, however, the public at

1131
01:12:36,373 --> 01:12:39,013
Speaker 3: large seemed far more interested in the implications than you

1132
01:12:39,173 --> 01:12:42,973
Speaker 3: kickoff Rale would have had on the NFL. Thoroughly enjoyed

1133
01:12:43,013 --> 01:12:45,453
Speaker 3: the highly interesting range of guests you have on the

1134
01:12:45,493 --> 01:12:47,733
Speaker 3: podcast or the best Phil.

1135
01:12:48,413 --> 01:12:50,693
Speaker 2: Phil appreciate that. But I have a question, where did

1136
01:12:50,733 --> 01:12:52,893
Speaker 2: you go in Texas? I'm always interested in where people

1137
01:12:52,973 --> 01:12:56,733
Speaker 2: go in the lone Star state. So let me know

1138
01:12:57,653 --> 01:13:04,333
Speaker 2: from Samuel, as an American on that's coincidental as an

1139
01:13:04,333 --> 01:13:07,693
Speaker 2: American four years there are certain things that I have

1140
01:13:07,893 --> 01:13:12,453
Speaker 2: only bought with cash. Even though these things are legal,

1141
01:13:12,653 --> 01:13:15,933
Speaker 2: i e. Alcohol, I did not want the government to

1142
01:13:15,973 --> 01:13:19,053
Speaker 2: know I was buying them. A credit card leaves a trail,

1143
01:13:19,773 --> 01:13:23,693
Speaker 2: c B DC will leave a trail of everything you buy.

1144
01:13:24,613 --> 01:13:28,373
Speaker 2: The government would love to have that information. Thanks for

1145
01:13:28,413 --> 01:13:32,653
Speaker 2: your terrific podcast, Sam, Thanks for your terrific email. I

1146
01:13:32,693 --> 01:13:34,213
Speaker 2: wonder if you do what I do, and that is

1147
01:13:34,333 --> 01:13:38,973
Speaker 2: encourage people to spend more cash, utilize cash more more

1148
01:13:38,973 --> 01:13:41,893
Speaker 2: than they have been because we had the release of

1149
01:13:41,893 --> 01:13:44,653
Speaker 2: the details of what the government, sorry, what the Reserve

1150
01:13:44,733 --> 01:13:47,613
Speaker 2: Bank has planned for this country. And there is plenty

1151
01:13:47,653 --> 01:13:50,693
Speaker 2: more to be said about that, just not this.

1152
01:13:50,693 --> 01:13:55,773
Speaker 3: Week, Layton Rogers says. Talking of cbdc's, he says, I'm

1153
01:13:55,773 --> 01:13:59,253
Speaker 3: a late starter to your podcast, working my way through

1154
01:13:59,293 --> 01:14:02,173
Speaker 3: the back catalog. I can recommend, by the way, the

1155
01:14:02,173 --> 01:14:06,413
Speaker 3: book Broken Money by Lynn Alden, a history of Fiat

1156
01:14:06,533 --> 01:14:10,493
Speaker 3: currency and how bitcoin, block chain and cbdc's fit into

1157
01:14:10,533 --> 01:14:14,173
Speaker 3: the next major change of how the world deals with money.

1158
01:14:14,813 --> 01:14:18,973
Speaker 3: Keep up the great work later and kind regards Roger Roger.

1159
01:14:19,093 --> 01:14:24,333
Speaker 2: I had a look at that book online and I'll

1160
01:14:24,333 --> 01:14:30,693
Speaker 2: probably buy it. Thank you, Ah Jim. It's not Karmala

1161
01:14:30,773 --> 01:14:35,773
Speaker 2: Harris's success nor intelligent that makes her particularly dangerous. It

1162
01:14:35,853 --> 01:14:40,493
Speaker 2: is her misplaced beliefs when you say nor her intelligence.

1163
01:14:41,213 --> 01:14:45,533
Speaker 2: She's not that right, Believe me. While Joe Biden merely

1164
01:14:45,613 --> 01:14:49,333
Speaker 2: lent his vacant mind to the woke virus, Kamala Harris

1165
01:14:49,373 --> 01:14:53,213
Speaker 2: has sold her very soul to her woke God. As

1166
01:14:53,253 --> 01:14:57,493
Speaker 2: Patrick Bashan put it, Carmela actually believes in woke. The

1167
01:14:57,533 --> 01:14:59,893
Speaker 2: most dangerous cult leaders in the world are the ones

1168
01:14:59,933 --> 01:15:03,453
Speaker 2: who so deeply believe in their own delusions that they

1169
01:15:03,493 --> 01:15:07,373
Speaker 2: would sacrifice their followers' lives to them. If Karlama wins

1170
01:15:07,373 --> 01:15:10,493
Speaker 2: the election, she will turn the entire American political engine

1171
01:15:10,533 --> 01:15:15,253
Speaker 2: into a full blown woke machine, making America jonestown twenty

1172
01:15:15,333 --> 01:15:19,093
Speaker 2: twenty four. He goes on, just look at what the

1173
01:15:19,293 --> 01:15:22,853
Speaker 2: woke virus did in the Olympics with its blasphemous sexualization

1174
01:15:22,973 --> 01:15:26,613
Speaker 2: of Jesus Last Supper and pitting a male boxer who

1175
01:15:26,813 --> 01:15:30,173
Speaker 2: nearly killed a woman in women's boxing. All there were

1176
01:15:30,173 --> 01:15:34,333
Speaker 2: two actually woke kills people. In a recent Jordan Peterson

1177
01:15:34,373 --> 01:15:37,973
Speaker 2: interview with Elon Musk, Elon explained why he hated woke

1178
01:15:38,093 --> 01:15:41,453
Speaker 2: so much and had every intent of eradicating the woke virus.

1179
01:15:41,813 --> 01:15:44,293
Speaker 2: He said that he was tricked into signing off one

1180
01:15:44,293 --> 01:15:48,893
Speaker 2: of his sons into so called gender affirming care, resulting

1181
01:15:48,933 --> 01:15:52,653
Speaker 2: in the irreversible mutilation of his son's perfectly working male body.

1182
01:15:53,493 --> 01:15:56,813
Speaker 2: He basically said his son was killed by the woke

1183
01:15:56,933 --> 01:16:00,053
Speaker 2: virus and he wants vengeance good on him. I say,

1184
01:16:00,613 --> 01:16:04,333
Speaker 2: whilst I have utmost faith in Patrick Basham's utterly scientific

1185
01:16:04,333 --> 01:16:08,893
Speaker 2: and honest polls, honest poles can't predict election sheets and

1186
01:16:08,973 --> 01:16:12,933
Speaker 2: the Democrats are highly accomplished at cheating. If the Democrats win,

1187
01:16:13,373 --> 01:16:17,493
Speaker 2: then they have succeeded in making America woke again. God

1188
01:16:18,013 --> 01:16:22,573
Speaker 2: forbid a couple of couple of links, but we don't

1189
01:16:22,573 --> 01:16:22,973
Speaker 2: need those.

1190
01:16:23,413 --> 01:16:26,813
Speaker 3: Leyton Dean says, I'm not sure if you've seen it,

1191
01:16:26,853 --> 01:16:29,973
Speaker 3: but there's a documentary called Climate the Movie on YouTube.

1192
01:16:30,293 --> 01:16:32,973
Speaker 3: It's an excellent look at the corruption on climate change.

1193
01:16:33,013 --> 01:16:34,853
Speaker 3: Be good if you could try and spread it across

1194
01:16:34,893 --> 01:16:38,093
Speaker 3: your channel. That's what Dean says.

1195
01:16:38,173 --> 01:16:40,293
Speaker 2: And I wrote to him about that, and I said,

1196
01:16:41,453 --> 01:16:42,093
Speaker 2: what did I say?

1197
01:16:43,253 --> 01:16:48,493
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, so you have you say check out podcast

1198
01:16:48,573 --> 01:16:49,413
Speaker 3: two three five?

1199
01:16:50,613 --> 01:16:51,693
Speaker 4: Dean, thank you?

1200
01:16:51,853 --> 01:16:52,733
Speaker 2: And what did he say?

1201
01:16:52,973 --> 01:16:58,053
Speaker 3: He says, thanks for applying. Why are you making me

1202
01:16:58,173 --> 01:17:00,533
Speaker 3: do this later? And if you know what you've been doing.

1203
01:17:01,053 --> 01:17:03,373
Speaker 3: I have just listened to podcasts two three five. I

1204
01:17:03,413 --> 01:17:05,613
Speaker 3: am not sure how I missed it. Very good to

1205
01:17:05,693 --> 01:17:07,613
Speaker 3: listen to. I wonder if the world will ever wake

1206
01:17:07,693 --> 01:17:11,253
Speaker 3: up to the corrupt. I love listening to Patrick Basham too.

1207
01:17:11,533 --> 01:17:15,853
Speaker 3: I'm a big Trump fan. Have been from the beginning there, Yes,

1208
01:17:16,013 --> 01:17:19,093
Speaker 3: and I think that's the end of the communication of yours.

1209
01:17:20,133 --> 01:17:24,573
Speaker 2: How much brain power or common sense is required of

1210
01:17:24,653 --> 01:17:28,813
Speaker 2: workmen to refrain removing support bolts from a standing pylon,

1211
01:17:30,133 --> 01:17:35,173
Speaker 2: But no bureaucratization and blame deflection overtakes all else, every

1212
01:17:35,213 --> 01:17:39,893
Speaker 2: time a comparatively lesser event that illustrates the degrees of

1213
01:17:39,933 --> 01:17:44,653
Speaker 2: incompetence in the delivery of infrastructure across the board. In

1214
01:17:44,813 --> 01:17:51,413
Speaker 2: God's own I can only say it got worse this

1215
01:17:51,453 --> 01:17:54,253
Speaker 2: week than because this was written on the second of August.

1216
01:17:54,453 --> 01:17:57,173
Speaker 2: It got worse this week, and it's going to get

1217
01:17:57,173 --> 01:18:06,693
Speaker 2: worse even more. Have I filled you with anticipation and glee? Anyway?

1218
01:18:07,213 --> 01:18:09,053
Speaker 2: So there was two fifty and we go to two

1219
01:18:09,053 --> 01:18:10,133
Speaker 2: fifty one next week.

1220
01:18:10,853 --> 01:18:14,253
Speaker 3: Are you up for another two fifty?

1221
01:18:15,133 --> 01:18:16,133
Speaker 2: Will we see you next week?

1222
01:18:17,573 --> 01:18:18,733
Speaker 4: Let's do it week by week.

1223
01:18:19,893 --> 01:18:22,973
Speaker 2: Thanks later, That's exactly on my mind anyway, Thank you,

1224
01:18:22,973 --> 01:18:45,093
Speaker 2: missus producer. Now for better or worse, as threatened, Here

1225
01:18:45,173 --> 01:18:47,613
Speaker 2: is an extract from Beyond the Microphone that was published

1226
01:18:47,653 --> 01:18:52,733
Speaker 2: in twenty thirteen, and this being the fiftieth anniversary of

1227
01:18:52,773 --> 01:18:56,853
Speaker 2: my career in broadcasting, I shall honor my threat and

1228
01:18:57,053 --> 01:19:00,333
Speaker 2: share with you the experience of the first radio job

1229
01:19:00,413 --> 01:19:04,253
Speaker 2: that I ever had in a broadcasting world. Your status

1230
01:19:04,413 --> 01:19:08,253
Speaker 2: is exemplified by your treatment. When I started in Devonport Into,

1231
01:19:09,053 --> 01:19:12,853
Speaker 2: I had no status with which to concern myself. I

1232
01:19:12,933 --> 01:19:16,453
Speaker 2: paid for my air fare from Sydney. I got off

1233
01:19:16,493 --> 01:19:19,293
Speaker 2: the plane carrying two hefty suitcases and caught a bus

1234
01:19:19,333 --> 01:19:22,933
Speaker 2: to the city. Got off the bus and headed toward

1235
01:19:22,973 --> 01:19:26,413
Speaker 2: the motel that I was booked into. Discovered it was

1236
01:19:27,013 --> 01:19:29,813
Speaker 2: the wrong direction, so it turned around and lugged the

1237
01:19:29,893 --> 01:19:34,213
Speaker 2: bags twice as far. I stayed two nights, paying my

1238
01:19:34,293 --> 01:19:38,813
Speaker 2: own bill, until the seven AD manager found me a flat.

1239
01:19:39,333 --> 01:19:41,493
Speaker 2: It was part of a house. At my BedHead was

1240
01:19:41,573 --> 01:19:48,293
Speaker 2: against the door that I presumed was to a passage.

1241
01:19:48,653 --> 01:19:51,933
Speaker 2: Somewhere on the other side was a very sick old man.

1242
01:19:53,173 --> 01:19:56,453
Speaker 2: His persistent cough had a death rattle to it, and

1243
01:19:56,493 --> 01:20:01,133
Speaker 2: the flat was miserable. As soon as I had another apartment,

1244
01:20:01,173 --> 01:20:04,013
Speaker 2: I was gone. It is fair to say that when

1245
01:20:04,053 --> 01:20:06,813
Speaker 2: I started on seven a D I was pretty raw.

1246
01:20:07,853 --> 01:20:10,533
Speaker 2: I recall all there was Taz Allen, who did the

1247
01:20:10,533 --> 01:20:15,213
Speaker 2: breakfast slot and doubled as program director, the essential element

1248
01:20:15,253 --> 01:20:17,893
Speaker 2: of that role being to choose the music for it

1249
01:20:17,973 --> 01:20:21,293
Speaker 2: was a music station. There were two other young guys

1250
01:20:21,453 --> 01:20:25,373
Speaker 2: who were part time, both locals. There was another who

1251
01:20:25,413 --> 01:20:27,973
Speaker 2: did the women's show in the morning. I remember nothing

1252
01:20:28,013 --> 01:20:32,893
Speaker 2: more than he was nice enough, which maybe says something.

1253
01:20:33,573 --> 01:20:36,693
Speaker 2: And there was the local retailer with the largest store

1254
01:20:36,693 --> 01:20:41,373
Speaker 2: in Devonport who owned that morning program through advertising and

1255
01:20:41,493 --> 01:20:44,853
Speaker 2: did an hour behind the microphone behind the microphone each day.

1256
01:20:46,013 --> 01:20:50,813
Speaker 2: It wasn't quite Snake Gully or Dad and Dave, but close.

1257
01:20:51,573 --> 01:20:55,173
Speaker 2: Taz Allen, in choosing the music, was pedantic. He put

1258
01:20:55,213 --> 01:20:57,933
Speaker 2: every record in the order it was to be played

1259
01:20:58,333 --> 01:21:01,293
Speaker 2: in a pile. So I'd get a pile for the

1260
01:21:01,573 --> 01:21:06,373
Speaker 2: six to eleven PM program, which would go something like this,

1261
01:21:06,613 --> 01:21:10,733
Speaker 2: a track from the Sound of Music ever bing Crosby

1262
01:21:11,493 --> 01:21:16,093
Speaker 2: and if you were lucky, a quiet track from maybe Chicago,

1263
01:21:16,453 --> 01:21:20,493
Speaker 2: and so it went, yeah, right. It wasn't long before

1264
01:21:20,613 --> 01:21:23,253
Speaker 2: one of the part timers decided that I could be trusted.

1265
01:21:23,973 --> 01:21:27,493
Speaker 2: The record room had one window which we would make

1266
01:21:27,533 --> 01:21:31,133
Speaker 2: sure was unlocked, the door to the record library being

1267
01:21:31,173 --> 01:21:35,133
Speaker 2: locked by the close of business day. Being one floor up,

1268
01:21:35,213 --> 01:21:39,613
Speaker 2: we'd shuffle along a brick ledge, open the window and

1269
01:21:39,733 --> 01:21:43,733
Speaker 2: adjust the playlist. There was at seven a d a

1270
01:21:43,773 --> 01:21:46,733
Speaker 2: part timer by the name of Shirley Britain who adopted me.

1271
01:21:47,253 --> 01:21:50,173
Speaker 2: Shirley was married with four children. She was a big

1272
01:21:50,173 --> 01:21:53,773
Speaker 2: woman who I recall wore tent dresses, but she had

1273
01:21:53,813 --> 01:21:56,253
Speaker 2: a bit of style about her and I spent a

1274
01:21:56,253 --> 01:21:59,253
Speaker 2: fair bit of time with her and husband Gary at

1275
01:21:59,253 --> 01:22:02,413
Speaker 2: their house. She gave me some advice that I've never forgotten.

1276
01:22:03,493 --> 01:22:08,573
Speaker 2: Fix someone in your mind and talk to them. Don't

1277
01:22:08,573 --> 01:22:12,333
Speaker 2: try to talk to everyone, just one person, be intimate.

1278
01:22:13,053 --> 01:22:17,533
Speaker 2: My time at seven ad lasted until just under six months.

1279
01:22:19,133 --> 01:22:22,213
Speaker 2: My girlfriend of three years, Jenny, was back in Sydney

1280
01:22:22,493 --> 01:22:26,373
Speaker 2: and we ran into some distance difficulties. We'd only seen

1281
01:22:26,413 --> 01:22:29,133
Speaker 2: each other once in that time, when I had a

1282
01:22:29,213 --> 01:22:33,613
Speaker 2: quick trip to Sydney, Jenny was at university. During a

1283
01:22:33,653 --> 01:22:37,853
Speaker 2: phone call, we argued, told each other what we could

1284
01:22:37,853 --> 01:22:41,213
Speaker 2: do with the relationship, and hung up. Five minutes later,

1285
01:22:41,253 --> 01:22:43,253
Speaker 2: I was trying to wring her back when the receptionist

1286
01:22:43,333 --> 01:22:46,773
Speaker 2: came in and said Jenny was on the phone. I

1287
01:22:46,893 --> 01:22:51,693
Speaker 2: went directly to MERV Evans, the manager, and resigned, and

1288
01:22:51,773 --> 01:22:56,213
Speaker 2: Jenny caught the first available flight to Devonport. MERV understood,

1289
01:22:56,493 --> 01:23:00,853
Speaker 2: but was disappointed. If you'd stayed here another twelve months,

1290
01:23:01,333 --> 01:23:05,253
Speaker 2: you'd get work anywhere in Australia. I'll never forget him

1291
01:23:05,293 --> 01:23:09,253
Speaker 2: saying that, and that will be where I leave it.

1292
01:23:09,333 --> 01:23:13,213
Speaker 2: But that was the first radio job lasted. I resigned

1293
01:23:13,253 --> 01:23:16,173
Speaker 2: after five months. I did stay because it was the

1294
01:23:16,253 --> 01:23:17,973
Speaker 2: end of the year, and I did persuade me to

1295
01:23:18,013 --> 01:23:23,413
Speaker 2: stay through the Christmas period until the replacement he would

1296
01:23:23,533 --> 01:23:26,653
Speaker 2: organize was available. What follows in the book is the

1297
01:23:26,693 --> 01:23:30,533
Speaker 2: progress from one station to another as you climb the ladder.

1298
01:23:30,573 --> 01:23:33,133
Speaker 2: And has things changed? I mean in the second job

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Speaker 2: in our Engine News other wells, they put me up

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Speaker 2: in the Carnobolis Hotel for a whole week, paid the

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01:23:38,973 --> 01:23:43,093
Speaker 2: bill and it only got better from there. And that

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Speaker 2: will do. It's enough indulgence and that will take us

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01:23:47,813 --> 01:23:51,893
Speaker 2: out for podcast two hundred and fifty. Love to hear

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Speaker 2: from you later at NEWSTALKSIB dot co dot mz or

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Speaker 2: Carolyn at NEWSTALKSIB dot co dot m Z back in

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Speaker 2: a few days with Podcasts two hundred and fifty one.

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Speaker 2: Until then, as always, thank you for listening and we'll

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Speaker 2: talk soon.

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Speaker 4: M hmmmmmm.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for more from News Talks at b Listen

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Speaker 1: live on air or online, and keep our shows with

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Speaker 1: you wherever you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio,