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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Fine

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Speaker 1: from newstalk edb.

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Speaker 2: Head an r rup oh to feed the scrump, Nanara

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Speaker 2: gets it in, Savia gets it out, cats it over

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Speaker 2: the touchline. The All Blacks hang on to win the match.

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Speaker 2: The All Blacks hang on to the Bledisloe three tries

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Speaker 2: in the opening sixteen minutes and then got the fright

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Speaker 2: of their life. The All Blacks thirty one Australia twenty eighth.

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Speaker 2: The Bledisloe stays in New Zealand for another year. But

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Speaker 2: that was less than emphetic in.

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Speaker 3: The end, There certainly was. That was a week ago

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Speaker 3: in Sydney. Tonight the two teams renew hostilities at Sky

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Speaker 3: Stadium in Wellington, where the show is coming to you

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Speaker 3: from today plenty of chat when the team was announced

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Speaker 3: on Thursday. Around the first five position after starting the

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Speaker 3: first seven Test matches of the year, Damien McKenzie will

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Speaker 3: come off the bench tonight, with Bowden Barrett starting in

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Speaker 3: the ten jersey. It'll be his first start at first

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Speaker 3: for the All Blacks since he played there against Scotland

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Speaker 3: on the end of year tour in twenty twenty two.

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Speaker 3: One of our great running first fives was Carlos Spencer

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Speaker 3: thirty five Test matches between nineteen ninety five and two

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Speaker 3: thousand and four, scoring nearly three hundred points. He was

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Speaker 3: particularly prominent in the unbeaten Test year of nineteen ninety seven,

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Speaker 3: during which he made his Test debut, and of course

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Speaker 3: in two thousand and three, when he played pretty much

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Speaker 3: every Test match, including both Bledislow Cup matches when New

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Speaker 3: Zealand won the Cup back after not having had it

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Speaker 3: for five years. Carlos Spencer is with us carloson to

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Speaker 3: start in general terms, what have you made of Damien

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Speaker 3: McKenzie's performances at first five for the All Blacks this year?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: You go twenty Yeah, Look, I almost said a little

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Speaker 4: bit sorry from to be honest, but you know, it's

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Speaker 4: been a tough little road for him, you know, obviously

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Speaker 4: on the back of a team that probably hasn't really

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Speaker 4: performed to the temple, and unfortunately it's usually the number

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Speaker 4: ten that takes most of the stick. You know, I've

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Speaker 4: sort of always considered Damien as a better full bet

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Speaker 4: than a number ten, but yeah, just really, I suppose

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Speaker 4: hasn't been able to give the direction that besides needs.

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Speaker 3: Do you think he is, though a capable test match first.

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Speaker 4: Five perfonally though, I don't think he is. I think

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Speaker 4: he's great at super super level, but when it comes

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Speaker 4: to test matches, Yeah, I just don't think he's he's

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Speaker 4: got what it takes to be a really good suited

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Speaker 4: number ten. Unfortunately. Hey, look, well I like Damien McKenzie.

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Speaker 4: I think he's a great player. But yeah, I just

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Speaker 4: I just find him he's better suited at fall bet

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Speaker 4: than ten. To be honest, what.

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Speaker 3: Is it about his play that that has been a

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Speaker 3: suited to the fifteen jersey than perhaps the ten jersey.

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Speaker 4: Oh, I think he's just got a bit more timers.

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Speaker 4: You know, he's got more time to make decisions, he's

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Speaker 4: a bit more space he because the line well, you know,

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Speaker 4: and I think he just can you know, he can

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Speaker 4: see more from at the beck and it doesn't stop

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Speaker 4: him from you know, jumping into Fiers receiver occasionally pull back.

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Speaker 4: But yeah, I think those are the biggest points. But

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Speaker 4: you know, I think he just left that direction. It

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Speaker 4: tests evel where it's really important.

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Speaker 3: Do you think the fact that he's so adventurous or

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Speaker 3: more adventurous perhaps than than a more traditional first five

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Speaker 3: means that he gets a bit more flat when things

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Speaker 3: go wrong, because people just think he's a bit of ratic.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I think it is the case. And you know,

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Speaker 4: there's one person that knows there to understand that, it's

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Speaker 4: probably me, because I was probably one of those players myself,

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Speaker 4: you know, you know, so I do feel for Damien.

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Speaker 4: You know, it's a tough decision, especially at test mitch level,

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Speaker 4: and you know, and like I said earlier, you're probably

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Speaker 4: playing in the team that really ain't you know, dominating

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Speaker 4: like they used to. You know, I think that they're struggling,

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Speaker 4: but up front and when the team struggles up front

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Speaker 4: of it, but you know, it's it's you know, it's

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Speaker 4: a little bit harder for a number ten to to

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Speaker 4: sort of fulfill of his role in his draw.

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Speaker 3: I suppose did any of your coaches, Carlos at provincial

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Speaker 3: super or particularly at all backs level, did they ever

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Speaker 3: try to tone down your attacking instance get you a

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Speaker 3: reigned in a bit.

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Speaker 4: Yes and no. You know, obviously we had a game

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Speaker 4: plan to follow and we spoke about that. And you know,

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Speaker 4: if I did three off the train tracks too much,

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Speaker 4: then you know, I was obviously spoken to. But I

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Speaker 4: think the good thing about the most of the coaches

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Speaker 4: I had, they sort of understood the sort of player

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Speaker 4: that I was, which was good, you know. And I

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Speaker 4: suppose for me it was just about understanding myself what

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Speaker 4: was right for the team. I suppose in that moment.

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Speaker 3: How long did that take to get you know, to

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Speaker 3: get it right most of the time for you? Or

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Speaker 3: did you feel as though you made your decisions pretty

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Speaker 3: right from the start.

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Speaker 4: That definitely took a while. You know, it was never

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Speaker 4: right from the start, you know, and there was always

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Speaker 4: a progress thing. I think, especially number ten, you know,

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Speaker 4: do you get it right every time? No, you don't,

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Speaker 4: and that's why, yeah, sort of right and the people

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Speaker 4: around you as well. And I think that's the same

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Speaker 4: thing for Damien, you know, I think when you look

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Speaker 4: at the guys around him, are they giving them the

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Speaker 4: help in the direction that he needs. I don't think

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Speaker 4: they are. You know. I was lucky coming through at

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Speaker 4: my time. You know, I had some good players around me,

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Speaker 4: good experience around me that you know, we're able to

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Speaker 4: help me, especially when times were tough.

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Speaker 3: So are you talking about his teammates sort of in

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Speaker 3: and around him in the back line, you're talking about

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Speaker 3: the coaching staff, Where do you think he needs greater support?

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Speaker 4: I think it's probably a bit of both pointy, to

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Speaker 4: be honest, But I think most of it's got to

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Speaker 4: do with his teammates. You know, it's it's in the moment.

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Speaker 4: It's on the field and having those directions and trying

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Speaker 4: to come up with solutions on the field. And you know,

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Speaker 4: coaches can't really do the part through walkie talkies and

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Speaker 4: ear pieces, So I think a lot of it's got

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Speaker 4: to come down to the players around him, you know,

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Speaker 4: helping them.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, did you feel I don't think accepted as

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Speaker 3: the right word. Did you feel relied upon by the

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Speaker 3: teams you played? And did they did you ever feel

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Speaker 3: as though they thought you might be you might be

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Speaker 3: a bit of radic for them all? Did you always

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Speaker 3: feel relied upon by your teammates?

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Speaker 4: Ah? Yeah, I don't know. It's a tough fun time. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: I suppose maybe a little bit relied on. Yeah, I see,

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Speaker 4: I don't know really.

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Speaker 3: So Damien McKenzie, Then do you think he has a

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Speaker 3: future as a test fullback?

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Speaker 4: I think he does, yes, And I'd actually like to

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Speaker 4: see him has some time at fall back. Whether it

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Speaker 4: happens or not, I'm not sure, but I definitely think

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Speaker 4: he is definitely potential for him to be a good,

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Speaker 4: good test for BIT.

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Speaker 3: Just on the Australians, obviously you played a lot against

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Speaker 3: them during your career, but I mean of your thirty

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Speaker 3: five tests, only seven losses and four of those losses

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Speaker 3: were to Australia. How stern a challenge did they present

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Speaker 3: to you during the late nineties and into the two

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Speaker 3: thousands when you played them?

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Speaker 4: Oh mate, they were tough. You know. You look at

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Speaker 4: the players they head deck in those late nineties and

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Speaker 4: especially Theys mid to late nineties. You know, the experience

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Speaker 4: in the in the players that they had. You know,

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Speaker 4: we were real close test matches back in those days,

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Speaker 4: you know, so they were forced to be reckon with

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Speaker 4: so you know, really good, really good games and back there,

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Speaker 4: and you know, it's just it's just a shame that

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Speaker 4: you know, it's obviously not like dead anymore.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and let us low Kapa. I think you think

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Speaker 3: you were in the team that won it back in

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Speaker 3: two thousand and three from memory, a proud moment to

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Speaker 3: get your hands on the on the big thing.

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Speaker 4: Always, you know, and it's one of the trophies that

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Speaker 4: I was fortunate enough to win. But ye was obviously

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Speaker 4: a proud moment back then in two thousand and Streader

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Speaker 4: obviously get my hands on it for sure.

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Speaker 3: You played a bit with Razor and the or Blacks.

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Speaker 3: Did he appeal to you as a guy who might

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Speaker 3: go into coaching when you were playing with him?

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Speaker 4: Uh? Nah, not really. I thought it'd be a full

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Speaker 4: time soon for to be honest.

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Speaker 3: Brilliant all right, Just before you go, speaking of proud moments,

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Speaker 3: Sun Peyton signing with the Blues for next season. He's

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Speaker 3: a fallback. Does he play the way you used to?

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Speaker 4: I don't think so. He's a pretty bit more reserved

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Speaker 4: than I than I was, which is probably a good thing.

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Speaker 4: But you know, I just he's him, and you know,

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Speaker 4: I'll let him grow up the way he's wanted to

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Speaker 4: play the game and whatnot. But you know, obviously, you know,

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Speaker 4: but up and Joe, I'm very proud of him for

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Speaker 4: obviously signing with the Blues. So you we're just looking

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Speaker 4: forward to seeing where his career can go.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, rightly. So always great cheating rugby with you, Carlos,

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Speaker 3: all the best, mate, Thanks for taking my call.

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Speaker 4: Now all good pie ecues, mate, thanks, thank you mate.

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Speaker 3: That's Carlos Spencer joining us with some really interesting thoughts

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Speaker 3: there on Damien McKenzie.

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Speaker 1: For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine. Listen live

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Speaker 1: to news talks it'd be weekends from midday, or follow

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Speaker 1: the podcast on iHeartRadio