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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Fine

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Speaker 1: from Newstalk ZEDB.

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Speaker 2: One of our greatest, our greatest lockforwards raised in Carmo

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Speaker 2: selected for North Auckland in nineteen eighty eight as a

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Speaker 2: twenty one year old toed with the eighty nine All Blacks,

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Speaker 2: made a cess debut the following year against Scotland at

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Speaker 2: Carisbrook and scored a try. From then on through until

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Speaker 2: nineteen ninety seven, pretty much an automatic selection, he and

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Speaker 2: Robin Brook forming one of the most enduring locking partnerships

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Speaker 2: in international rugby. Three World Cups see Captain the Chiefs,

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Speaker 2: often Captain the All Blacks and mid Week Gain in

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Speaker 2: South Africa in nineteen ninety two one hundred and five

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Speaker 2: games for the All Blacks seventy nine tests, still the

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Speaker 2: fourthmost by any New Zealand Locke and now general manager

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Speaker 2: of the All Blacks Experience, the only interactive attraction in

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Speaker 2: the world dedicated to New Zealand rugby, located on Federal

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Speaker 2: Street in the Sky City Precinct. Who else but Carmo

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Speaker 2: Ian Jones. Nice to see you mate, Why any.

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Speaker 3: Way to hell? Have a bullut? Yeah? Welcome, Thanks very much.

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Speaker 3: Just very quickly touching.

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Speaker 4: On the eighty five As you mentioned Robin Brook, my

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Speaker 4: boy plays techen under eighty five's guests who locks the

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Speaker 4: scum with a man called cayleer Brook, the son.

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Speaker 3: Of Robin Brook. Unbelievable, It is unbelievable. It's wonderful. They're

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Speaker 3: not as tough as me and Rob Well.

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Speaker 2: I was going to say, how do they compare to

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Speaker 2: their you know, to the two of you.

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Speaker 4: Not a patch on us, pony, not a patch, but

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Speaker 4: they try their best. They love the game, the passionate

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Speaker 4: about the game. But we're all passionate about the game

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Speaker 4: and they're out there doing it. So now I loved

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Speaker 4: Under eighty five competition myself.

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Speaker 2: I was going to ask you about that locking combination

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Speaker 2: with yourself and Robin Brook.

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Speaker 5: It was just enduring.

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Speaker 2: And you talk about great partnerships and all black s rugby,

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Speaker 2: and that was one of them. How important is the

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Speaker 2: locking combination in the you know, an effect of forward pack.

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Speaker 4: It is absolutely a partnership like a nine ten, like

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Speaker 4: a twelve thirty, And they are partnerships.

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Speaker 3: You have to work off each other, you have to

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Speaker 3: under stand each other's role and the great thing I

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Speaker 3: always used to be. When I was a Rob, I

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Speaker 3: knew he's always had my back.

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Speaker 4: Great footballer Robin Brook really tough, understood the game, uncompromising,

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Speaker 4: so you knew exactly what he was going to do

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Speaker 4: in his role, which allowed me to do my role

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Speaker 4: a little bit wider than that.

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Speaker 3: But she always knew he was always going to front.

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Speaker 4: And when you know that, when you have so much

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Speaker 4: trust and faith and the guy you're sitting beside the

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Speaker 4: changing sheds, the guy you're locking this grum with in

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Speaker 4: a Test match, there's just gold pining.

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Speaker 3: And I always had my Rob, always had my back.

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Speaker 2: You came into the All Blacks in nineteen eighty nine

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Speaker 2: and a very very good All Black side. It was

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Speaker 2: from the eighty seven World Cup onwards. You came into

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Speaker 2: that side as a twenty two year old. Was there

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Speaker 2: in any way daunting for you?

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Speaker 3: Ah?

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Speaker 4: Funny enough, it wasn't. Because just had the self belief.

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Speaker 4: I wanted to be there. I felt comfortable being there.

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Speaker 4: I had really good teammates coming around me. I went

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Speaker 4: on that first tour in eighty nine Murray Pears and

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Speaker 4: go Weddam with the incumbents, stay with the Test Locks,

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Speaker 4: So I got comfortable being in that environment, but I

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Speaker 4: wanted more and my break came when Murray Pears at

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Speaker 4: the end of eight and nine went.

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Speaker 3: To South Africa.

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Speaker 4: So there's a whole there's a vacancy and the locking

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Speaker 4: for nineteen ninety. Thankfully, Griz Wiley rop So the great coach,

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Speaker 4: gave me an opportunity in nineteen ninety and then started

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Speaker 4: locking this drum with Gary Whtton. Murray Peas actually came back,

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Speaker 4: came on tour with us to France at the end

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Speaker 4: of nineteen ninety and was a great mentor for me, great.

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Speaker 3: Support for me.

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Speaker 4: I managed to keep my test spot and went all

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Speaker 4: the way through till ninety nine, as you mentioned, but

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Speaker 4: that was a break. And when you get an opportunity

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Speaker 4: in sport, not just rugby, but in sport, and you can.

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Speaker 3: Take that opportunity to take that chance and then you

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Speaker 3: can just grow and grow and draw.

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Speaker 4: It's always my ambition to play a test, to play

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Speaker 4: multiple tests, to play fifty tests, and just keep building

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Speaker 4: on that goal.

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Speaker 2: Setting over one hundred games for the All Black, seventy

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Speaker 2: nine of them were test matches.

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Speaker 5: That team of the late eighties.

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Speaker 2: A dominant team, but the team you were part of

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Speaker 2: a nineteen ninety six and ninety ninety seven you know,

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Speaker 2: utterly spectacular side. And I remember, and you will too,

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Speaker 2: the game of Athletic Park when you met Australia forty

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Speaker 2: three points to six on one of the worst Wellington

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Speaker 2: days you can imagine, but one of the best displays

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Speaker 2: of wet weather rugby ever.

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Speaker 5: Do you recall much about that day?

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Speaker 4: I recall the whole week, Piony, absolutely, because the whole

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Speaker 4: week it was torrential rain and waited for the whole

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Speaker 4: week and John Hart just started to come in first

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Speaker 4: year as all a black coach. We'd had a beautiful

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Speaker 4: wild up against the Summons. We knew what we were

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Speaker 4: all about. We trained outdoors because we knew and John

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Speaker 4: Hart knew these were the conditions that were about to

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Speaker 4: face on Saturday. So we got it into our heads

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Speaker 4: this is the way we had to play. But we

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Speaker 4: could steal back our skills in those conditions. So it's

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Speaker 4: all about mindset that John Hart, phenomenal coach, got you

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Speaker 4: into a.

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Speaker 3: Place where you knew you were so comp in your ability, your.

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Speaker 4: Teammate's ability, and how you could play, and so we

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Speaker 4: just executed. In ninety ninety six and conditions that we

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Speaker 4: in our mind were ready for.

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Speaker 2: But that team, that team that day, I mean, goodness,

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Speaker 2: me doubt Fitzpatrick Brown, yourself and Robin Brook, Michael Jones,

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Speaker 2: Josh Cronfeld and Sinney Marshall and Mertons Little and bunts, Lomu, Wilson, Cullen.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know what to say about a

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Speaker 2: team like that.

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Speaker 4: Well, it's phenomenal. A lot of it set up, of

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Speaker 4: course by Lauren Mains and nine ninety five. And although

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Speaker 4: hard work we did ninety five, John Hart came in

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Speaker 4: and just transformed who we were, just our mindset a

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Speaker 4: little bit brilliant, and we just backed each other.

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Speaker 3: We had world class players.

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Speaker 4: But all you had to do in that ninety six

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Speaker 4: side was your job, nothing more, nothing less. Just had

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Speaker 4: to go there, get yourself into this mindset, your job,

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Speaker 4: understand what you needed to do, execute trust in the

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Speaker 4: other fourteen we'll do, executed the same outcome as what

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Speaker 4: the outcome was.

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Speaker 3: And that's kind of how.

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Speaker 2: We operated nineteen ninety four France out here, the try

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Speaker 2: from the end of the Earth.

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Speaker 5: Is that vivid in your memory for a different reason?

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Speaker 3: Oh you know, I remember it Hurt's absolutely hurts.

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Speaker 4: And I look back on that and with some shame

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Speaker 4: that we have bought me of all that we were

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Speaker 4: boror watching so running to the ball where we should

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Speaker 4: be standing in our position.

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Speaker 3: We could have stopped that try.

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Speaker 4: You know, eighty third minute of the game, a little

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Speaker 4: bit fatigued allowed the French's opportunity.

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Speaker 3: They took the opportunity.

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Speaker 4: But I look back and then should I could have

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Speaker 4: done so much more personally, We could have.

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Speaker 3: Stopped that, but we didn't.

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Speaker 4: We now look back on this memory and it's phenomenal

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Speaker 4: Piney to have a home ground and the audits don't

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Speaker 4: have a home ground. We play everywhere, but our spiritual

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Speaker 4: home often.

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Speaker 3: Is referred to an Eden Park.

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Speaker 4: And to think that we haven't lost a game at

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Speaker 4: eden Park since nineteen ninety four, fifty one test manches ago,

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Speaker 4: it's crazy. So this is why this game tonight and

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Speaker 4: every game since then, you've got to defend that fortress.

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Speaker 4: It is about mindset, It is about stamping your authority.

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Speaker 4: It is about this first ten minutes of this game,

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Speaker 4: to make it so the volumes and go, shit, this

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Speaker 4: is hard. There's no way we can win here. That's

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Speaker 4: exactly how we got to start this game.

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Speaker 2: I just want to ask you about a couple of

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Speaker 2: players in the current side. Fabi and Holland is a

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Speaker 2: new addition to the side in twenty twenty five.

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Speaker 5: What have you made of his introduction at Test Rugby?

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Speaker 4: Love him because he's a big unit. He's a big

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Speaker 4: unit who knows how to use his size. His work

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Speaker 4: rate's phenomenal. You see big man on the ground popping

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Speaker 4: up bang into the next phase, so that's really good.

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Speaker 4: Understands his role as well, so he will pay a

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Speaker 4: little bit tighter tonight with a little bit wider. So

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Speaker 4: that's about the combination. What's my job tonight? Will Fabian

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Speaker 4: Holand be is saying.

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Speaker 3: What's my role? What do you want from me?

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Speaker 4: But what we want from him is just getting his

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Speaker 4: big body and shifting the rucks, heading plenty of rucks

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Speaker 4: and the Wallabies out, actually physically dominating the Wallabies, making

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Speaker 4: them hurt.

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Speaker 3: Okay, that's tough the Wallabies, but we can't think like that.

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Speaker 4: We have to think that the public schoolboys and absolutely

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Speaker 4: get into them and they'll allowed to provide a bit

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Speaker 4: white to see.

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Speaker 5: I've loved the man, so to is you say back

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Speaker 5: into the second row.

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Speaker 2: He's sort of been used at blindside flank, you know,

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Speaker 2: three or four times this year.

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Speaker 5: Was there something that you ever considered to move to six?

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Speaker 4: Shit, No, you're looking at the six. Is that he

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Speaker 4: just talked about in my lineup? Is not going to

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Speaker 4: get a chance anyway. But the great thing about tuber

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Speaker 4: Viety he still has the mindset of a tight forward.

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Speaker 4: He's sinking tight, he's thinking ruthlessness, uncompromising and all of

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Speaker 4: those things, even when.

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Speaker 3: He's playing six.

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Speaker 4: I liked him at six, but he's still got that

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Speaker 4: mindset of getting over the ball, being negli, getting in

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Speaker 4: the face of the opposition. And yet if you can

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Speaker 4: get in the face of the opposition and put them

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Speaker 4: off their game so they stopped thinking about their role.

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Speaker 4: But what you're doing to them, that's a win for

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Speaker 4: the Allbacks the way he plays.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, brilliant general manager of the All Blacks experience. Now

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Speaker 2: it's a job you clearly absolutely love. I just love

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Speaker 2: the social media you're put up and it's always just

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Speaker 2: with such enthusiasm and energy for the All Blacks brands.

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Speaker 5: What's the role involved and how much do you enjoy?

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Speaker 4: All New Zealanders should be very proud of the brand

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Speaker 4: the All Blacks, but the all Backs experience, but we

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Speaker 4: call it the all Blacks experience.

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Speaker 3: But actually for all.

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Speaker 4: Our teams in back, a mighty all Blacks phenomenal, the

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Speaker 4: black ferns which bring this amazing joy to our game.

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Speaker 4: They're different to the men, and that's good. Are the

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Speaker 4: superpower that the woman can have leading up to a

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Speaker 4: game is so different to the men. And the men,

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Speaker 4: of course are the brand itself for the All Blacks.

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Speaker 4: So we take people through this New Zealand story ready

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Speaker 4: through our rugby lens. But the connection we all have

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Speaker 4: to the game of rugby, whether we're players and what

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Speaker 4: that Cheersy bents to us as players and our families,

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Speaker 4: whether his fans like you Piney, what that kind of means,

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Speaker 4: the prie that.

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Speaker 3: You get when the orbits come out or the international

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Speaker 3: is coming in.

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Speaker 4: We want to learn a little bit of who are

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Speaker 4: the All Blacks and why are they so good? And

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Speaker 4: that's why we like to share all these secrets because

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Speaker 4: when you share, Pinty, you learn, and when we share,

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Speaker 4: it's always last year's secrets for sharing, which means while

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Speaker 4: we've got to get better and better. So take people

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Speaker 4: through the making. How do you make it all black

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Speaker 4: or black fern? By how you make an all black pinting?

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Speaker 3: It's just that our kids love our game.

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Speaker 4: If our kids love the game like you love the game,

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Speaker 4: and they're connected to the game or then that's a win.

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Speaker 4: Most actually won't become all blacks or blackburns, but if

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Speaker 4: they're connected, that's what we're after when we shape. We

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Speaker 4: play some games, which is great, and then phenomenally this

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Speaker 4: is amazing.

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Speaker 3: What does it.

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Speaker 4: Feel like, Piney being an all black, all black fern

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Speaker 4: when you sit in those changing rooms, when you hear

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Speaker 4: that knock on their door, what does that mean to you?

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Speaker 3: And that's what we try and express to the money head.

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Speaker 4: Their visitors coming through before they can with our hacker,

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Speaker 4: they walk down this tunnel. The anthems are starting to

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Speaker 4: play the crowd. They'll be the same for the willbacks tonight, Piny,

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Speaker 4: It'll be some will Blacks there tonight. Their minds will

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Speaker 4: be clear. They could not wait to get on that field.

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Speaker 4: They were born for that moment. Would there'll be other

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Speaker 4: all backs in the sheds tonight at five o'clock? Who

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Speaker 4: the brain is muddles the expectations the legacy that Superman

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Speaker 4: cakes some people have got on.

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Speaker 3: They'd be a heavy cloak for others.

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Speaker 4: And that's why I want people to experience when they

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Speaker 4: come to the Allbacks Experience, would they be a greater

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Speaker 4: the game with a clear mind or would they just

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Speaker 4: be a.

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Speaker 3: Good way we player with a muddles mind? And then

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Speaker 3: you've got to face the huckers.

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Speaker 4: So what I'm doing because you've invited me onto the

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Speaker 4: show and I appreciate this, Piny. I want people to

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Speaker 4: jump on any of our social channels Facebook, Instagram the

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Speaker 4: All Backs Experience, predict tonight's score or the closest to

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Speaker 4: for this is a cup game I will give where

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Speaker 4: you get a chance for it, you've got to be

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Speaker 4: an augand we'll give them the closest winner a family

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Speaker 4: voucher to come to the or Backs Experience. But more importantly,

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Speaker 4: it's about legacy. Legacy is a really powerful word for

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Speaker 4: the All Backs.

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Speaker 3: That's what we're about. When we have a legacy wall,

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Speaker 3: which shows you the win.

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Speaker 4: Loss and draw of every All Backs are tests. The

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Speaker 4: All Backs are played for one hundred and twenty years,

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Speaker 4: a seventy six point six percent win record, and I

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Speaker 4: want the lucky person, a lucky family who predicts the

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Speaker 4: right score for the night's game to come through Sunday

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Speaker 4: or Monday and put in.

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Speaker 3: A black all Black sprig or say.

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Speaker 2: No, no, no, let's stay.

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Speaker 4: With black, and they will be part of All Black

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Speaker 4: legacy forever.

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Speaker 3: That is damn cool.

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Speaker 5: That is cool, all right.

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Speaker 2: The All Blacks experience on Facebook or Instagram is where

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Speaker 2: you can make your prediction just on that legacy war.

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Speaker 2: I've had the pleasure of being there, and I could

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Speaker 2: spend two or three hours there.

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Speaker 5: Come.

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Speaker 2: Oh, you know, I've been watching the All Black since

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Speaker 2: the mid eighties, so we're talking, you know, forty years

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Speaker 2: for me to just just you know, walk along that

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Speaker 2: wall and say and see a black sprig or see

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Speaker 2: a sprig of a different color, and remember that game

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Speaker 2: so vividly and so clearly.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Point.

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Speaker 4: We bring a lot of former players comes from and

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Speaker 4: take tours, which are really special because our guides are amazing.

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Speaker 4: But the former players all have a different story, a

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Speaker 4: different journey, a different connection to that to the jersey,

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Speaker 4: and I'll come through and two things happen. Will either

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Speaker 4: walk to their first test match and remember that so vividly,

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Speaker 4: or walk to their first loss in the All Black jersey,

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Speaker 4: and also remember that so vividly that you can talk

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Speaker 4: about those games in detail.

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Speaker 3: It's it's incredible. And the Ladies, of course, underneath it.

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Speaker 4: I'm made to talk with cry of our seventies six

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Speaker 4: percent wind record, the Ladies with their eighty two percent

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Speaker 4: wind record, the most successful sporting team in the world.

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Speaker 4: It's right here, our black ferns, beautiful.

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Speaker 2: Are you able to qualify how many of your visitors

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Speaker 2: are from overseas?

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Speaker 4: Yep, sixty percent will come from overseas, all on the

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Speaker 4: cruise ships. A lot of green and cold of course

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Speaker 4: around this week. But the thing is when they come

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Speaker 4: into to the All Back Experience and a wall of

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Speaker 4: a jersey, they actually leave buying a black jersey, Piney,

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Speaker 4: and I love that.

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Speaker 3: I bloody love that.

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Speaker 4: And the great thing about our shop and you know,

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Speaker 4: we can't put a name on the back of an

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Speaker 4: all Black jersey because we don't own that jersey, Piney,

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Speaker 4: We're just caretakers of that jersey. But the great thing

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Speaker 4: about coming to the All Backs Experience, you can buy

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Speaker 4: a jersey with your name on it. I'll personalize it

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Speaker 4: for you, no problems, but just not the playing ones.

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Speaker 3: We're great to put a name on the plane ones.

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Speaker 5: All right, just to finish, because I know you've got

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Speaker 5: a busy day head.

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Speaker 2: You got to get back to the All Blacks experience

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Speaker 2: and greet some more visitors.

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Speaker 5: What is your gut telling you about the game this afternoon?

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Speaker 4: Oh, we just have to win, no question about that.

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Speaker 4: Your mindset is an All Black sitting there now. Should

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Speaker 4: be no other thought. It's about what's my job? What

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Speaker 4: do I have to do for that first ten minutes?

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Speaker 4: And how ruthless can I can be?

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Speaker 3: There should be no other thought ever coming to your mind.

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Speaker 4: And again, like this, Pinty is overwhelming, right playing for

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Speaker 4: the All Backs for eighty minutes. So I'm sitting in

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Speaker 4: those sheds. All I'm thinking about is four ten minute

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Speaker 4: games of rugby. Bang bang bang, Get im back in

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Speaker 4: the sheds. Reset, four ten minute games of rugby, and

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Speaker 4: even you, Piney can go hard for ten minutes, I.

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Speaker 5: Think, so.

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Speaker 2: Well, well, I'm not like you used to, but I

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Speaker 2: but putting it into bite size segments like that, what

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Speaker 2: a great idea.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's the way I would play it, and that's

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Speaker 4: why I'd go hard. But I'd have no other thoughts, yep,

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Speaker 4: a lot of self belief. Maybe might say arrogance as well.

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Speaker 4: But it's a fine line, poney, But I have no

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Speaker 4: other thought to go in there. We as the All Blacks,

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Speaker 4: have to physically dominate the Australians. Be really niggley with them,

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Speaker 4: put them off their game, don't allow them to settle

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Speaker 4: one little bit, make remind them how damn hard Testnet

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Speaker 4: rugby is.

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Speaker 3: We get on that domination, then we can play.

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Speaker 2: Love it the All Blacks Experience on social media, get

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Speaker 2: on there. Make your prediction for tonight and it could

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Speaker 2: be you planting that spring in that I noticed. Yet

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Speaker 2: you've only bought the black, only brought the black one,

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Speaker 2: and I think that's wise.

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Speaker 3: I only think black mate.

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Speaker 5: Come, I' great to see you. Thanks for stuff again.

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Speaker 2: Thanks pony Ian Jones there joining us seventy nine test

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Speaker 2: at one hundred and five game All Black and gentlemen,

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Speaker 2: a job of the All Blacks Experience and the Sky

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Speaker 2: City Precincts.

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Speaker 5: Get on their socials. Make your prediction and it could

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Speaker 5: be you.

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Speaker 2: Putting that sprig into the legacy wall to mark yet

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Speaker 2: another famous victory for the All Blacks.

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Speaker 1: For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine. Listen live

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Speaker 1: to News Talk set B weekends from midday, or follow

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Speaker 1: the podcast on iHeartRadio