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Speaker 1: Now Mesa's global head of Safety, Rickins, we should consider

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Speaker 1: other options instead of doing the same as Australia and

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Speaker 1: banning under sixteen year olds from social media and Tigany

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Speaker 1: Davis is in the country in New Zealand for a

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Speaker 1: safety conference. She was on the mic hosting Breakfast this morning.

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Speaker 2: If you put parental approval, so anytime you download an app,

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Speaker 2: a team goes to download an app, a parent has

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Speaker 2: to say yes or no. In other words, you're starting

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Speaker 2: with a restriction around entering and you're basically saying Okay,

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Speaker 2: yes you can do this or no you can't. That's

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Speaker 2: a better way to do that across the entire Internet.

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Speaker 1: Stephen Sheila is the former CEO of Facebook Australia and

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Speaker 1: New Zealand and he's with US high Stephen Good definitely

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Speaker 1: do you agree with her that parental controls are preferable.

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Speaker 3: I think parental controls at the at the app store

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Speaker 3: level would be another good safety feature that should be

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Speaker 3: should be considered, And the platforms have been saying that

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Speaker 3: for a while. Their belief is it's too hard to

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Speaker 3: do this in the app itself. You should push it

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Speaker 3: back to the app stores, which are controlled by Apple

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Speaker 3: and Google and have them kind of you know, making

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Speaker 3: sure the parents are certifying whether an app, any app

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Speaker 3: winds up on a kid's phone. But as you can imagine,

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Speaker 3: that's that's part of a solution at making social media

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Speaker 3: and the internet more safe. But it doesn't you know,

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Speaker 3: it doesn't solve the problem of well, okay, what happens

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Speaker 3: when that individual that team gets on to social media.

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Speaker 3: You still want to have that side of the equation

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Speaker 3: safe as well. So I don't think it's a total solution,

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Speaker 3: but I think it is another tool in the toolkit.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it seems to me.

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Speaker 3: Yep.

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Speaker 1: The parental controls are a great idea, don't they. They

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Speaker 1: do already exist. I'm not imagining the say.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, anybody who's listening who's got kids than you

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Speaker 3: are trying to see what your kids are doing on

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Speaker 3: social media. You've all been in, many of us have

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Speaker 3: been in and fiddled with the controls. The problem is

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Speaker 3: at that level, it's confusing, right, your kids around six

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Speaker 3: or seven different social media apps. The you know, the

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Speaker 3: the controls are usually set to your default on, not

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Speaker 3: default off, so you have to go and turn things off.

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Speaker 3: It's hard to figure out and then you've got to

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Speaker 3: your kids can go and get around you and change

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Speaker 3: it back, and so at least a lot on parents

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Speaker 3: to have to try to figure out. And most many

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Speaker 3: of us aren't tech experts in the first place, so

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Speaker 3: it does exist, but it's still probably is too difficult

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Speaker 3: for parents to make sense of and really use in.

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Speaker 1: A practical Okay, so tell me if I'm wrong here.

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Speaker 1: It seems to me that these things are useful, but

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Speaker 1: as you say, they already exist and we don't use them.

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Speaker 1: The default is actually that people don't use them. The

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Speaker 1: benefit of a social media ban as opposed to this

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Speaker 1: is that it creates the default setting of no, you're

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Speaker 1: not allowed to unleash your parent decides to break the rules,

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Speaker 1: and that actually gives parents a lot of power that

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Speaker 1: is really quite helpful to parents. Is that fair.

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Speaker 3: I think that's a good way of thinking about it.

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Speaker 3: In fact, it is this idea what's the default? And

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Speaker 3: I think what Meta is arguing is the default should

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Speaker 3: be at the parents should have the control at the

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Speaker 3: point of downloading an app from an app store, and

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Speaker 3: that's where the parents should say yes or no, rather

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Speaker 3: than having the government say no. But I think you

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Speaker 3: can argue. You know, reasonable people can disagree as to

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Speaker 3: where that point should be. But I think it is

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Speaker 3: all about giving parents more control and making it simpler

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Speaker 3: for parents to be able to handle, you know, the

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Speaker 3: fire hose of stuff that's coming at them from social media.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so we are what it's coming up. Actually, a

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Speaker 1: couple of months since the Australians banned the kids from

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Speaker 1: getting on the social media is would you would you

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Speaker 1: describe it as a success?

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Speaker 3: Look, I've seen you'll have We have to be careful, right,

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Speaker 3: it's early days. Yeah, it takes time to change human behavior.

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Speaker 3: And this is you know, you've got a whole literally

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Speaker 3: millions of kids suddenly having something taken away from them.

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Speaker 4: Those kids are trying to get around it now.

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Speaker 3: Right, that's a lot of what's happening, and it will

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Speaker 3: take time for this to become the new normal. And

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Speaker 3: so I think really the judge success or failure, you've

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Speaker 3: got to look for, you know, a year or two

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Speaker 3: into the cycle to see where it lands.

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Speaker 4: So that's far. It's it's really hard to see.

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Speaker 3: I think both sides are all sides here.

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Speaker 4: I think there's more than just two sides.

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Speaker 3: There's parents and kids as well, they all have opinions

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Speaker 3: and there's bits of data, but I think it's too

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Speaker 3: early to say.

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Speaker 1: I haven't seen any compliance data data, which I think

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Speaker 1: is probably a key to it. Have you seen any

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Speaker 1: of it out yet?

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Speaker 4: I haven't seen.

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Speaker 3: No, I haven't seen any, so I don't have to

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Speaker 3: wait for that. I'm still I think we still have

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Speaker 3: to wait for better data able to assess this.

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Speaker 1: And Stephen one final question. The fact that we've got

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Speaker 1: Antigony Davis going around the world making the case for

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Speaker 1: anything other than a band suggests to me that Meta

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Speaker 1: is reasonably worried about this idea catching on. What do

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Speaker 1: you think, Well.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I think they are worried, and look, it's good.

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Speaker 3: I don't know antike any Personally, I think it's good

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Speaker 3: to see Meta have people out in the market. I

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Speaker 3: haven't seen that a lot, to be honest with you,

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Speaker 3: that they're out, They've got people out there talking to

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Speaker 3: the media more actively. I think personally, I think it

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Speaker 3: was a mistake that they didn't do that, but they

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Speaker 3: tried to lobby government. They made pronouncements, but they really

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Speaker 3: didn't have the face of the company out there talking.

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Speaker 4: And I thought she.

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Speaker 3: Made you know, she made some good points and made

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Speaker 3: some good case but I think it is showing that yes,

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Speaker 3: naturally they're going to be worried. They're worried that a

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Speaker 3: big chunk of their business is going to be restricted

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Speaker 3: and indeed it already has been in Australia, and you

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Speaker 3: know this just puts more sand in the wheels of

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Speaker 3: them trying to run their business.

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Speaker 1: Hey, thank you very much. Steven has always appreciate talking

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Speaker 1: to you. Stephen Sheila, the former Facebook Australia New Zealand CEO.

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